snarl

Yes, but before game becomes #1, our community need to work very hard. Must be many very critical comments, suggestions, discussions

So dont write simple comments with 3 words. You must work while beta. Dont loose your time with only whine.

Well but first they have to put away the "Q3 with better graphic" mindset, and accept this new Quake with champions

will you accept a quake with 2 goals and a ball? I mean Fifa17 is popular atm so why not combine those elements and make the best quake ever? Quake Balls! or just quake with balls

seriously there are BIG titles like counterstrike, starcraft and so on which stayed at their core but got new graphics. Counterstrike community is how many times bigger than quake community? It even grows year by year!

Do you actually think counterstrike would be still successful if they did drastic core changes? I highly doubt it.

btw there are custom fun counterstrike server with football rules ^^

Those games core gameplays still work don't mean Quake's does

Valve didn't change the core gameplay of Counter Strike but just updated the graphics because there's no reason to do that. CS has, and always been popular, there're many reasons but that's not the point.

But Quake - the Arena shooter genre, in the other hand, is dead a long time ago (Xonotic, Warsow, Reflex,....) (have a small loyal community doesn't count as "works"), so if it wants to survive, it has to adapt, it has to evolve, into a different game (but still respect the core gameplay).
So that's why we have Quake Champions

Starcraft as a RTS, has a wide deep gameplay with different strategies & tactics, of course it works. While in Quake series, it's always about deathmatching, and yes there're some in-depth knowledge, but do new players care? All they see about the game is using your weapons and shoot the shit out of each others, after trying out the game for (about) 1 hour; they'll just drop the game forever

but QC is still just deathmatching with abilitys :D

I dont think hero abilitys will change the view of a casual gamer about quake. The ones who like classes/abilitys will just play overwatch since its established.

I would even go this far to say: overwatch > qc in many many aspects. Althought i've never played overwatch... Blizzard has always a well thought-out plan and we see it works.

Why should an overwatch player switch to quake champions? I cant think of any reason

Even just the fact you only get one weapon in OW is enough to make it very boring for me. Maybe some OW players feel that way too.

not true
Ive seen a youtube video about a hero with a sword and ninja stars! so 2 weapons at least

Counterstrike doesnt give many weapons too but people like it (more than quake) so this argument isnt the best.

xD

It wasn't really an argument. It is just how I feel about guns, and I am speculating that I'm not the only one.

I think people who learn how to change between the guns quickly with binds (a skill in itself) will really love being able to do so.

"All they see about the game is using your weapons and shoot the shit out of each others"

What's changed? :D

I get it. New players who can't hit the broad side of a barn want to delude themselves into believing that what they are doing is intellectually deep. :D

Quake may never have been the most popular game, but it was reasonably popular for its time. You can't say the gameplay never worked. Now it is just a matter of tricking players into playing long enough to appreciate it.

I remembered read somewhere that they'll add more team game modes, that's what i'm hoping

I'd be very surprised if they didn't.

Hmmm... go play CS 1.0 and then try CS:GO, it's MASSIVELY different.

The only thing that is similar is the shooting itself (spraying with weapons) and the general concept of the bomb plant and rounds. Everything else is different.

CS as it was in the betas or 1.0 with better graphics would have failed if they wouldn't have added new stuff constantly.

not true the core gameplay stayed. They changed weapon behavior, changed slightly the maps but everything else stayed.
I played it much from 0.5 beta to cs 1.6 till cs:source. I didnt play cs:.go but I heard its more back to the roots because cs:source was slightly simplified and a lot of players disliked it (including myself).

Dude are you serious? I stopped at 1.6 and picked up CSGO about a year ago after not playing CS for about 5 years. Needless to say it was a shock. Maybe you don't realize it since you never stopped but there's been so many changes - new guns, nade physics, new economy, molotovs, skins, etc. etc. etc.

For sure the "core" is the same, e.g. m4/ak spray, awp, rounds, etc. However it really doesn't play like 1.6 - you really need to use teamwork and nades now.

The changes in QC are similar... lots of new things - abilities, skins, heroes, etc. but the core gameplay remains the same - rockets, rail, LG, pick up weapons, hp and armor, strafe jumping, etc.

Nope abilitys does change the core gameplay. Basic skills like positioning and many more are almost useless because.... abilitys. Why should i need to learn b2r jump?
I can teleport to rail with ranger. I can think of lots of such situations.
There is no medic or sth like that in cs because its Not teamfortress.
Did you even saw the new duel mode? And you still wanna claim the core gameplay didnt change? Lolol

you are so right about nades. learning entry smokes and flashes, at least when i actively played cs go (6-12 months ago), a person could solo queue to LEM without any concern about teamwork, because of the huge advantage that good nades give.

another important thing that i don't remember really talked about in 1.6 is prefire. prefiring some common spots can change the dynamic in cs go matchmaking.

also, cs go is much friendlier for run & gun type gameplay, though i admit that mp5 was extremely useful in 1.6. in cs go you have...jumping scouts? jumping shotgun headshots from across the map? running ak headshots? randomized first bullets from rifles? awp scope cooldown? stutter step nerfing?

the core is the same, as you say, but i agree 100% that it doesn't play like 1.6 at all.

Dont loose your time with only whine.

Isn't that what you've been doing the whole time?

Isn't that what you've been doing the whole time?

You do not see the difference between whining and constructive criticism.

Dont loose your time with only whine.

Also you do not see the word "only"

2 mistakes from you

i like it when he reasons with us

Wea sudat wiad ned pudat

I'm wondering why the 'link' in the op is actually pointing to a different site...

www.site.com

(insert typical ESR 'hardcore' comment "Oh noes Rapha sold out, corporate shill, etc...)

Still dont see the hate, I actually agree with what Rapha is saying, I have played all 3 beta's and I really like the game.

Still a few bugs, and balancing etc, but im condifent that will all be sorted out. Still good fun.

Why'd you have to go and ruin it right at the get go? We could have had a nice 100+ post threat about how much of a sellout rapha is and how people should give the game a chance and whatnot.

The problem with QC is that it doesn't look like a Quake game, but it plays like a Quake game.

Therefore, those that haven't played the beta (90% of ESR) will hate it before hand.

how does a quake game look like?

Minecraft on steroids with guns.

Big player models that are more or less uniform in size, a brown color palette, simple lightning (no lights that have no purpose), no abilities. That's what all Quakes share, good looking simplicity, and then there are stylistic differences between Q1/Q3 and Q2/Q4.

Instead QC has a UT vibe. You see a fucking dinosaur walking around (Sorlag) that throws up on the map, a green color palette in one of the three maps, shiny unnecessary blue lights in dm6 and on the other third map, the models very much vary in size and all of them are small anyway, the weapons themselves look like they come from a different game.

Modernizing a game doesn't necessarily mean to turn it into the art style of another modern game. OW managed to has its own art style, while looking better than QC and have more visibility.

QC would look much better had it followed Q1's art style. To me the map structure itself is fine, but the rest is not. Plus I'm a bit spoiled with the quality of Doom 4 and OW, and Saber (the maker of this game) just can't make assets as good as id software or Blizzard.

Same can be said about sounds. The weapons in QC don't sound satisfactory to shoot, unlike in previous Quakes. And the QC announcer is an abomination.

It's a weird position to be in. Now the gameplay is fine but the presentation is not; the complete opposite of QL.

For over 20 years guys have complained quake is brown, now you want it back? This is such a dipshit nitwit community.

[ - ]

I like brown. :D

Also, sabre didn't make this game...they provided some technology. All the art design and models, environments were made in house, by id software employees. You just speak out of your ass without a clue. Just stop.

Really? Because the assets are of much lower quality. If that's the case then no idea how they went from great (Doom) to mediocre (QC).

According to Tim Willits Sabre are doing most of the work when it comes to art and characters: https://youtu.be/TY-LCo_S1u0?t=19m54s

Guess mr anon was wrong.

It's what happens when you just speak out of your ass without a clue.

Still you can't help but appreciate the work they've done on the character models (not the characters themselves though).

Rofl.

To quote vamp1re, on the super secret Discord: "QC plays like Quake but looks like UT2K4".

They definitely should make the game be less generic.

I like the announcer.

Better than the QL announcer.

for my taste these are probably the worst announcer sounds I ever heard in any video game :< Don

You telling me that DBZ guy in QL is better? (I like the voice actor, but it does not suit Quake.)

The original Vadrigar is by far the best, but this guy in QC is still better than fkn Vegeta on valium.

faaaaaiiiiiiigghht

rofl?


cg_announcer 2

If that's the chick or Vegeta, then they are both incredibly lame. If it is the new Vadrigar, he's better but still not close to as good as the original q3 one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRm1RC1Fz9M

No personality is better than bad personality, so I'm not finding the QC announcer terribly offensive.

Know your enemy, know your cfg.


cg_announcer 2 is "Xian" with less echo and slightly lower tone.

Well, I don't have QL installed anymore to check what voice I get with cg_announcer 2, and it is not documented in the console guide, nor have I heard it in any stream I've watched.

When did they add this "Xian" anyway? When I was still playing, there weren't really any good options.

Is there a recording of Xian on youtube or whatever?

In any case, Ranger's one-liners in QC are for the most part quite good, so they make up for the lifeless announcer. Giving him life could very well make him as annoying as Anarki.

Xian is the name of the guy who gave his voice to the original Q3A announcer.

Cool. I'll check it out when I next install QL. :D

Called Vadrigar in QL menu.









But install it anyways.

the engine feels somewhat floaty/laggy compared to previous idtech engines (even including quake 4) tbh, (however, disclaimer: I have not played qc in lan so maybe like baseq3 it is decent on lan but falls off rapidly with ping. q3 was saved by OSP to make it somewhat playable online and finally made amazing by cpma netcode. But on the flipside this game is not going to allow any mods). So cant fully agree with plays like a quake game, it feels sort of a cheap imitation of a quake game.

but anarki floats

No. It feels like a quake game. Untill you get alted

Would it really be that crazy though to think that? His best buddy is working at id. Not saying that's the case, but it wouldn't be surprising if it was true.

How much weight should be given to a pro's view of gameplay? I think it was Dahang in an interview some years back mentioning how he likes playing aggressively, but playing aggressive doesn't win tournaments. So, he found it hard sometimes to hold back and play defensively.

So, pros will sacrifice gameplay, or endure gameplay that's complete shit (shootmania) if it means potentially more money to be made.

It's not in their best interest to make a game that leaves anyone out. The more people it draws, the more tourneys there will potentially be, and the more money there will potentially be to win.

Dahang in an interview some years back mentioning how he likes playing aggressively

u rush too much :D

He is a corporate shill.
You didn't see the qcon stream where sync had his hand on raphers thigh?

So he's shillin' for sexual favours? :D

he looked terrified.
zero4 seems to have big smile on his face these days.

Poor rapha. :D

probably thinking of his next meal.

i think it's very important that they nailed the fundamentals (and that means a LOT), everything else can be fixed over time.

just think about csgo beta, where they didn't even get THAT right...the fundamentals were complete crap..

i promise the future is not bleak for the franchise, just don't expect a finished product and accept it for what it is. netcode fixes, character balance, gametype/metagame adjustment can all be easily tweaked and fixed.

lmao. Which fundamental(s) did they nail exactly? Fundamentally Quake has always been about a 100% even playing field and is what made Quake Quake. This core fundamental is gone in QC because their target audience isn't Quake or afps fans, but instead people who like ability based shooters like Overwatch. A big problem with this fundamental change is that some of your most popular game modes, like Clan arena and duel, suddenly don't really work without an even playing field. Case in point is their new duel mode that they've come up to replace original duel. It's as if they designed the game without any game modes in mind.

the movement, the weapons, the concept of the gameplay, the asymmetric/vertical map design

not sure if you even played the beta, if you did you'd know that shit like the abilities really are like ~10% of the game at most

It's not just the abilities that contribute to the uneven playing field. We're also talking about the differences in health/armor/speed and hitbox size. It's a recipe for disaster for competitive quake, but it's fine for casuals which is who they are targeting.

okay, and why exactly is that a bad thing? everyone has access to the same characters, and it's basically expanding upon their concept of what team arena was

the sooner you accept the fact that this is a different game, the sooner you'll be less emo

Team Arena? Talk about dead gameplay.

If abilities really do play that little, why even have them in to begin with? Won't some people they're trying to attract with abilities quickly realize how little difference they make and leave? Meanwhile they've alienated a chunk of people that want no part of these abilities.

play the game, which is still in beta (true beta not ow kind of cbt), then talk.

Tbh, since Q3 no quake was ever very good or even polished up on release. Can't speak for qw or q2, since I wasn't around for them.

No quake was polished in release, especially q3. Q3 was a shit show before OSP and CPMA mods. If you don't believe me install the q3test and see how polished you really think it is.

That's what I meant. I included q3 in that list. Q4 and ql weren't that great either.

Have it, did it, more fun than QC ez.



But if you play the "polished" card, you can't forget about 3rd party development for said titles and QC's future policy about that.

tl;dr: if a Quake is a shitshow without modders, what QC will be (and already is)?

but you could check out crash's hawt boobs in a mirror. i got like 30FPS with my voodoo 3 and somewhere around 512MB of RAM.

Lets ask the important questions, will it be on steam

That's an easy one, no.

Quake Champoins 2.0 will be :))

I like the argument that champs add more depth....
Yet the game was too hard already for casuals....

It adds more depth in the casuals point of view, but less depth in the veterans point of view. It also offers a feeling of having some kind of chance for the noob (lol its true).

https://youtu.be/rFtMD3fY1TE

I watched the whole thing. Quality stuff.

This one sums it all up.
https://youtu.be/nrMM6mUIK40

That's a false hope anyways.


I mean the noob having chance.

You would think with the success of doom that they wouldn't have squandered the multiplayer.
Coming up on Dooms one year anniversary and multiplayer is dead lol.


They only care about money.... which is fine. they are a company and have employees to pay.
Building a game around people who play once a month and really only want skins i disagree with.

With big money backing tournaments standard quake gameplay could be huge.
It's funny how everyone forgets id software went bankrupt and had to sell themselves to zenimax.
Everyone there quit. Quake live had no funding. Premium pro killed the community.
Their in game add failure.

Ql got no funding and a half assed dev team after the real devs quit the company.
We got quake community manager and a web designer to develope ql further.... into the ground lol.

Loadouts were a failure.... so they add them to doom.
Hack modules were a failure so they reincarnated them into champions...
cycle hack modules.... cycle champions.

I've been playing QL lately just walking around and not strafing.
The game is still incredibly fun. It's the combat. the dodging... that's what makes quake quake to me.

Get rid of strafing/movement in QC and your left with a pile of shit.


Raphas opinion means not much to me lol.
His BFF is working at id software.
Monies is on da LINE.
He also said overwatch was good.... cept he sucked to bad to make money lol.
He knows this game will be ++++ back.

Someday you'll have over 1000hrs into this game.

He's still right about 90% he says imo

Yes he is.

QC?
by the time it comes out i'll be gone from the community.

I would like every stupid game for a certain amount of money...

He also liked Shootmania.

I kind of liked SM better than QC actually

It was still pretty shit tho

" Rapha... you think you can talk gooder bout QC on stream so peeps don't think it's shit? maybe you can get through to em... I'll give you $20"

"Sure sync"

QC will be my only arena shooter game installed on my pc by the end of this year.

:)

sad

ye. sad that some people will never adapt. :D

Those people have high standards.

I like QC

it's very fun to play (probably not as much to spectate).

it would be nice to add the tournament mode they had in q4. Have never pld it, but someone mentioned it and sounded super cool!

In OW Rapha sits on the payload with healbot lucio on a tier 2 team in a tier 2 region. In Quake is arguably the best, most respected player who wins half the tournaments.

Ofc he wants QC to be good, ofc he's gonna have his fingers crossed id somehow nails this and he can go back to being the best.

cmon his team has taken maps off rogue recently. I think teamliquid is really good in OW but not as consistent as current top 3 teams.

TL is definitely on the rise with the Shadder2k pick up, and they have some incredible players in Dahang and Rapha.

Would not be surprised if they're tier 1 status very soon. I mean look at where Selfless was just recently.

It's since the beginning that "it's only a matter of time" before rapha's team reaches the top.

Will never happen.

That's why I said tier 2. I doubt people as competitive as dahang and rapha are content being anything less than number 1.

Also my post was like 50% baiting.

Yeah they arent the best, but there are MAYBE 10-12 teams even on their level. Just another hater who's is more than likely shit at quake and 'EZ' overwatch

When that pro-fag can come here and actually post his own opinion, then maybe i'll take it into consideration.

Dude, we didn't heard you these previous 4 times, say again, who's fucking whom, and how? Do not neglect a single detail!

Because that's why we're all here, at ESR.

Where gaming meets sexuality.