768 units is the LG range in Q3, that's why they chose to try that.

That would work nice if not the dissapearing beam. I don't even know if I am shooting or not, no visual effect, no sound. LG is useless atm.

yeah that seems to be the reason behind most design decisions for quake champions

if only id had brains...

Scalebearer's ability is the dumbest, most braindead move in the whole game, right up there with lizard vomit.

The only real "counter" is never to get close to a Scalebearer unless you know for a fact his ability is in cooldown.

Otherwise, he'll press a key, and you'll get hit before you even see it on your screen. Even if you dodge it on your screen, you'll still die because of the netcode.

It's like dodging cars in DayZ clones.

Just spectated ZeRo4's duels last night on twitch, it had educative value (he did RJ against bullrush). Unfortunately he did not save the video.

if you get real close it doesnt do much damage and if you are far away you can evade it more often than not when you anticipate it. everyone will get a lot better with both using and defending against active abilities, hard to judge atm

It does 75 damage at the closest range, no?

Either way, I'd say at least 75% of the time, if this hits me, I'm dead.

If you get in a close range fight with Scalebearer, he might be about to die, so he'll just press this button and veto the situation. :D

I think it's totally fine. Lg range nerf means you use hmg or rail in that range, or simply get close with lg, rl, or gaunt.
Bullrush is annoying but small champs have the ways to dodge (wall jump or air control)

It also gives small champs chances to get closer against people with lg without taking much dmg.

I've never had an issue dodging people who bullrush. They seem limited to a straight line.

Nah, people have posted that the only maneuverability loss comes from a drop in mouse sens, so people have been using macros to increase their sens when they hit their ability key---in the exact same way as some people are using macros to always quickscope the rail for additional damage.

Observe: https://bethesda.net/community/topic/52936/ra...ifs?page=1

Not sure if true (about Scalebearer); I haven't tested it, but I have seen Scalebearers do full circles.

Anyway, at close range, it is pretty much impossible to dodge. By the time you've seen it, they have already hit you on their screen, and that's all that counts.

Quickscope is so obviously stupid that it pains me it was included.

But... but.. it was necessary! To attract call of duty mlg_420_blazeurmom_360 audiences!

They're a company, you know? They have to make money!

IF YOU WANT TO PLAY QL GO PLAY QL!

I HATE YOU ALL! YOU FUCKING TOXIC CUNTS!

TBH it made sense when there was a 20dmg difference. But now that's only 10 then might as well remove the increase.

(ofc leaving the damage at 90 and not 80)

Someone on twitch said today that "there's gonna be a zoom charge, rails gonna do 80-100 dmg depending on how long youre zoomed in" and that he got this info from Sync.

I'd call it a troll but after loadouts, hmg, timers and speed cap, it might be even possible.

They could do it the tribes way: If you want to hit full damage, you need to be zoomed in and stand completely still.

Whats the thought behind that mechanic? Standing still while railing is easier than railing+moving. Its like QC's new rail mechanic, basically, just supporting the nubs

for a serbian jew double bluff triple anarki lazery attack from behind the 4th players (clutch) shield.

zoom works well for pixel rails and you can do it while moving.

It never made sense. It still doesn't. It is the definition of a brainfart.

Reward for zooming? Like it is hard or something? WTF?
It would make more sense to do LESS damage when zoomed.

It just encourages a retarded style of play---all times zooming, and you have to watch this crap on the streams.

It should be flat 80 or 90. Take your pick. I'd prefer 80. QL was railfest enough where bigger stacks were possible. 3/8 champs spawn with only 100 hp+ap.

I'd like the game to not copy QL, but to try something new. The gameplay is way too similar already (same weapons, same main map, same movement), to now introduce it having the same balance as QL.

Something new would be zooming in playing a part, or having a higher railgun dmg (90 or 100). But what's the point of making a new game if it's going to be a carbon copy of what we already have.

I like new things too (and I like old things). I just don't want garbage for the sake of it being new.

Of course, coming up with stuff that is new AND good is difficult.

Just fuck my gameplay up, fam.

its possible to dodge this even in close range. u just need to react fast.
also its doing less dmg on close range

I call bullshit. :P

Any dodging is pure luck. It is basically like dodging a rocket at close range---but worse, because it is an unlagged, heat-seeking rocket. You don't dodge it. You try to make the other person's aim wrong through tricky movement.

But two things:

First, the higher your opponent's ping (and your own), the longer you will wait till you even see him charging, but that won't prevent him from hitting you even if he misses by 10 metres on your screen.

Second, he does not really have any maneuverability limitation. People used to low sens won't have a problem swinging their mouse to hit you.

Also, this move does more than enough damage to kill you or leave you with 10hp most of the time it is used if you're not using a tank yourself.

Even using Nyx, he is hard to dodge, and most of the time, I dodge it with her ability.

"The only winning move is not to play". i.e. ensure you're always far from the bastard---a kinda crappy gameplay.

Nah, people have posted that the only maneuverability loss comes from a drop in mouse sens, so people have been using macros to increase their sens when they hit their ability key

for real? how does it take the devs more than 5 seconds to realize that this will be absued? just limit how sharp you can turn around while the ability is active

middle ground will be best imo, like 860

I'd like a longer shaft

Who wouldn't?

Isn't it all about girth?

CHOOOOO CHOOOOO

sperg wants the game to favor his spergness

dude, i agree that i'm some kind of autistic guy but i disagree tho that i want the game to favor my playstyle

if it were the case i wouldn't have made this poll and asked experienced people here at ESR about what they think

if people majoritarily vote for keeping 768units, then i'll remain quiet
if people majoritarily vote for changing it to 864/900units, then i'll show this poll to SyncError and prolly even make a thread at Bethesda forums

I'm for 777, it completes 7 dmg per shot perfectly.

Just imagine Evil shafts Rapha from 777 range with bunch of 7 77 7 77 7 coming from the enemy model...

7 77 7 77 7 coming from the enemy model...

that's actually stupid, does QC do that as well? It should just be a counter. TF2 did this right, and it's sodding ten years old.

You are wrong, TF2s approach was a good idea but ultimatively less useful than the regular approach, like QC.

The eye reacts quicker to light than to shapes. Think about it :)

imho, the purpose of dmg numbers is that you know how much damage you did. Assuming you hit 15 lg cells in a fight, just reading 105 is much better than counting 15 sevens flying around.

probably he means that seeing more sevens flying around is better feedback than seeing a number changing, because seeing a new seven pop out is easier than seeing a number change and far easier than reading that changing number.

yup

Probably depends on the maps mostly what's better.......

yes i agree

usually large and open maps without too much pillars or shit like that are better for lg (or rail)

For you. But for weapon balance's sake, there should be more than 1 option :)

How is duelling going in QC?

For you. But for weapon balance's sake, there should be more than 1 option :)

not for me :D, you said yourself it mostly depends on the maps :D

but yeah i'm not asking for LG to be the only option, but even with 864units or 900units range, rockets and rail would still be top tier weapons, especially rl since they will remove the delay

I like how you just ignored his question :D

yes because i'm one of the few ESR user that actually like the new duel format @ QC

don't want to get even more bashed than i am currently :>

So... Fuck the challenging and competitive aspects of Quake so that thin skinned noobs can feel good about themselves?

nobody is using lg in duel

in my duels it seemed useless, but I thought it's because I don't have super aim. Then I started watching streams and even the pros didn't make any noticeable damages with lg (200 or less). I saw games of cooller were he did 0 damage with it.

they made lg totally useless

rapha uses it sometimes, and he is clearly the best dueler today.

I like how the LG now has less situations in which it's the best weapon to use, as now other weapons get actual usage like the shotgun.

but how rl, lg and rg are the holy trinity of weapons, when lg is not used nearly as the other 2?

it's like there is no holy trinity any more and we have only 2 main weapons and if the whine about rg work as well as it did for lg, then will be left with one weapon, rl.

Ok I understand that rl is loved by noobs and good players, but even though I am not an aimer, I always loved the fact that we had at least 3 main weapons that we needed to use in every duel (if the map had them). Didn't mind being outaimed in ql. I knew I needed to be good with all weapons. But what I see in qc forums, is ppl forcing devs to buff the weapon that they think they are best at, just because of that.

it is not in my best interest a strong lg, because aimers will fry me, but it is the games best interest to have at least 3 main weapons.

I am not talking about deathmatch, team deathmatch and sacrifice here, but only for duel. I think that in the other modes, is used far more and is probably useful.

of course, these are just my thoughts and worries about the game. I will adapt to whatever.

The problem the LG has is it makes other weapons unviable, simplifying the game. Plasma Gun, Shotgun (from a distance), Rocket Launcher (within that far LG range) are all more interesting than rushing with LG, but are never used because of on that range. By nerfing the LG in QC those weapons are now actually used. Now we can have more than a trio (no homo).

Plus the LG has been the dominant weapon in Quake for the last 18 years (OSP, Q4, QL). Lets have some new balance to keep things fresh. For example in the past 15 years there's only been two railgun users that have won a world championship, czm and killsen with one win each, whereas all the rest were won by primarily rocket and lg users.

Plus the LG has been the dominant weapon in Quake for the last 18 years (OSP, Q4, QL)

OSP was dominated by rail cause rail did 100dmg/hit. LG did 8dmg/hit but was easier to dodge due to the netcode. RL was the weakest out of them 3.

Q4 was dominated by RL and Rail, because you could "crotch-slide" the shit out of your opponent and get closer to him much faster than in Q3. Also most of the Q4's maps used to favor RL spam due to many choke points and angles/positioning that favored endless RL spam. Player accel was also slightly faster than at vq3 when they started to "major patch" Q4. Rail did 90dmg/hit even when not zoom'ed in, and toxjq was known to have prolly the best rail along with stermy, in Q4 (and even Q3).

QL was/is clearly dominated by defensive/offensive RL (rapha, cypher) mainly because of 1000ups projectile speed and 80dmg rail and from 7 to 6dmg/hit for the LG, and also smaller hitboxes than in Q3.
look at evil, he's winning everything online (in EU, not world) but almost always losing to rapha or cypher at major LAN events. He only won 1 Dreamhack (2013), and that was when most players weren't used to his playstyle yet.

evil is known to have one of the best, if not the best offensive LG at QL duel, but if you look at his career results, he almost always failed against smart and def and/or off playstyles of rapha or cypher with RL.

What. No.

Yes.

especially in QL, rl was the most dominant weapon and from all quakes the hardest to dodge, because of its speed

it also created a heavy +back style of play

exactly :)

also considering that most of QL's duel maps are cramped with many tight choke points where if you use too much of the lg you can get punished by rl-spamming behind pillars or shits like that

the only QL's duel maps that prolly favor LG / hitscans weapons in general are dm6(campgrounds) and to some extent ztn(bloodrun, most balanced map ever when it comes to weapons usage)

The problem the LG has is it makes other weapons unviable, simplifying the game.

you could say that for every weapons, not only LG ;)

Plasma Gun, Shotgun (from a distance), Rocket Launcher (within that far LG range) are all more interesting than rushing with LG

uh? Where did you get that idea from ? :D

rushing with lg is prolly one of the most intense and difficult move to perform properly, especially at high lvl where usually defensive rl/rails are VERY punishing if you don't move/dodge properly while rushing with LG.

that's why i have so much respect for evil or cooller for their "on point" LG agressions.

also, LG is prolly the less random weapon of the "holy trinity" because it deals damage constantly over time unlike a full hit rocket that can be random at times, or even a missed rail.