Not even a AnyBoy thread :(

It's Quake 4 all over again.

Quake 4 was still Quake, but with a garbage engine that ran like trash on 90% of peoples computers at the time of the release.

and quake 4 gameplay was good,engine was bugged,here both gameplay and engine is shit lol

And Q4 was dead on arrival as well - it wasn't quake in the beginning. Once they upped sv_fps and q4max had its way it became quake but at that point it was too late.

yea but i mean gameplay still quake,not tard champions ecc

yup, pretty much this ^

Sadly true story bro

i find it funny how it's always ID to blame if a game with quake'ish gameplay is not successfull. maybe we lack the audience. If millions loved to play and learn games like this, all the things u pointed out wouldn t matter a shit. Like I need a dev-blog or information about a tournament that I won't participate? like I care how their business model works? They're giving interviews and released quite some teasers. They have/had a lot of public attention. They're doing their media job quite ok. Maybe not epicly good, but certainly not so epicly bad that it is legitime to attack or blame them 24/7.
and if everything was working properly alrdy, it wouldn t be a beta no more. (Not to be confused with "it's gonna be more successfull or perfectly polished after beta" statements.)

Of course it's the public's fault when a company makes a product that no one buys. That's so obvious, why haven't I thought of that?

it's o.b.'s fault men don't wear tampons?








This is not about making a product that sells on the market. This is about making a QUAKE that sells on the (2017) market. Products can be characterized by their features, and some features don't have the same market chances as others. Maybe TB was right

Of course, of course.

That's not what he said. He said we lack the audience, e.g. nobody wanted the product in the first place.3

Not really, read again.

yes really. read again.

Give em hell, noctis!

If that's the case... Look at all the audience bashing their product (and also some praising it, of course.) But anyway, if what you're saying is that they're making a product for which there is no audience, id are still to blame.

Maybe you should try to be clearer next time. (I'm still not convinced that that was what you meant in your original message, or if you yourself even know what you meant, but ok.)

it's quite clear, maybe try to respond to what ppl write instead of expectation guided acid dream interpretations of it :X

To blame for what? The lack of success? Maybe it's impossible to really succeed with a Quake (that is Quake) atm. Does it make sens to blame actors for not reaching impossible things?

I would just like to know, how Quake Champions is Quake? Since when did Quake have classes and different attributes depending on which class you pick? It's like saying Dirt Rally is the same as Formula 1 2016 because both games are racing games.

When people say Quake Champions is Quake, it must mean that Enemy Territory: Quake Wars was also Quake. Seriously, just fuck off with that logic.

The reality is, whilst a new traditional Quake wouldn't be the best selling game ever, I would bet it would retain more players and more interest as Quake Champions ever will.

sort of valid point, but it's still closer to "quakes" than other genres, isn't it? Same (not class restricted) weapons, health-, armor-, ammo- and weapon pickups, strafe jumping, bunyhoping, rocketjumps, closed-, rather narrow map structures, objectives not being bomb-plant or payload push. in general u re not very dependent on team constellations and on what other ppl (like healers or classes that have to do a job no1 else can) do (as ppl are in ow f.e.), and the mechanical skill level is very imporant on all lvls (unlike f.e. in Mobas).

I doubt a pure remake would be more succesful. We had ql bumped a while ago, we have reflex...

So we didn't have anything close to remake...

in other words, id software is trying to sell us a DVD re-winder.

I've working with development for 13 years and i've been playing Quake since 1996.
I think they are destructing the game before the release. It's a question of prioritization.

Why they released a mod, that need to modify just now, with so many prior bugs like the poor netcode.

The other thing is de spectator mode, why not to do a partnership with TwitchTV to create the best Spectator mode ever?

They are trying to apply the Scrum with continuous improvement . But sorry, the Product Owner is not doing a good work and the development team looks like to have 5 members.

I think of course it's about small budget 90% of all problems
I think they show game on her very early stage for better end-result

I'm always smile when 80% of all whine about technical issues. because i'm sure that all technical issues will be fixed 100% (easyest part)

We just need more PR, more advertisment. When i surf inet, i'm feel that Blizzard captured all the media for example (OverWatch). Can't say the same about QC.

Can someone please explain why they made the game accessible to all and sundry when it has so many technical flaws?

The netcode problems are absolutely not something that requires a large scale public beta to detect.

The game has a huge amount of built-in lag, which is most evident whenever you attempt to use the SNG or get shot around corners by someone with 20 ping like he has 200 ping.

And the sound design makes zero sense.

Apparently they have no idea how to make games anymore.

My guess is that indeed it is a very low budget effort and that is the base for all problems.

That is a shame though because they have a nice concept in hands and when you are not in the menu / don't are plagued with connectivity issues / can find a match and people stay connected it is actualy very enjoyable.

Do you have any sources on that? Cause looking at the number of shaders and overall effort put into cosmetics while still in beta it doesn't seem low-budget to me.

The cosmetics seem to have attracted a disproportional amount of the effort.

It is strange that id software, known for making engines, would use someone else's engine for their flagship game.

Isn't it the doom engine? Or is that not an id engine too?

Nope, it's an engine made by Saber (used in Halo and some other games). The only thing "id" in QC is just brands.

Edit: Just for reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saber_Interactive#Saber3D_Engine

Allegedly it's the engine used for Rage, with modified bits.

No wonder the game looks so 2000s.

Rage was id Tech 5, Doom was id Tech 6. QC is Saber's engine.

No idea why I thought that.

Still looks horrible tho.

I've heard that rumour too, but it was debunked as soon as they officially mentioned that it was Saber's engine.

But yeah, it does look horrible. :)

WHAT THE FUCK???!?!?!?!?! Why wouldn't they use their own engine??!?!? There has to be a proper reason as opposed to the only one I can think of which is inbreeding is a company policy at id.

The reason is very simple: no Carmack, no skills to develop a proper engine in house. :)

The only reason I've heard tossed about is that id tech 6 wasn't "ready" when they started work on QC.

Doesn't sound right to me.

It was ready to work on doom (released in may 2016, development started in 2012/13?), and not for qc? ROTFL

Tim Willits explain in this short interview why they are using a hybrid engine:
https://youtu.be/HJZk8UFSk0o?t=370

QC is tech5 at its base with saber doing tweaking.
http://stevivor.com/features/interviews/quake...rfect-fit/

The renderer is not id tech. See comment #51.
When he talks about id tech, he's talking about all the physics.

Then it's irrelevant, it's still their engine.

Well, from the point of view of a player, it only matters because of things like responsiveness, frame rate, visibility, sound, and netcode. How much of that is id and how much is Saber, who knows.... I'm getting the impression all of that is Saber.

"id tech" is the formal name given to the engines they created in house.

QC is not id tech 5, id tech 5 was the RAGE engine, it's not QC ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Tech )

QC is the Saber engine with some id tech thrown in.

Wonder why they didn't use id tech 6. DOOM is actually pretty fluid and visceral.

Because as they've said a few times in interview, it was far from ready for anything when they started working on QC.

I can't even believe that. Doom 4 was out a year ago. QC is still in beta(which is more like an alpha). And D4 has more enemy types than QC has champions and it also has a single player which on top means it has way more maps even if you count only the SP portion.

There's no reason for them to lie about this, when your core team is still actively working on the development and stability of the engine itself and any development tools, and said engine is mostly geared towards just the specific game you've been targeting for years, it's not a great idea to hand it over to another team to try and make a totally different game with it.
If they considered it not ready to start developing a second title with it or it just didn't meet their needs somehow, then it can't have been ready, if nothing else consider the financial cost of bringing in another company and working with a different engine, if it had been plausible to do it with tech 6 they just wouldn't have gone with Saber.
They were happy with what they saw of Saber, Saber were used to their own engine, and id believed it could do the job.

Or the other reason given: "...it was the best position for us given what the experience of the team is and the guys that work on it at id." -- Tim Willits

This is much more believable, and the other reason is obviously better PR than "we don't have our best guys working on this" or "all the people who know how don't work here anymore". :D

Totally different game, give me a break. It's doom and quake. They don't get more similar than that. Doom 4 had aircontrol for christ's sake.

I guess you are right when you brought the money into it but ... I still can't believe it.

Might be that the doom engine didn't have the multiplayer features they needed when they started work on qc. Obviously, they added the mp features eventually, but perhaps they had already started on qc with another engine. Either way, I doubt the engine is the real source of the issues. Sound for example; I'm not convinced there's anything fundamentally wrong with the engine, rather it's just design decisions and poor implemention etc.

Maybe, I'm not sure, just thought I'd share some thoughts..

what i gathered from various interviews and statements is that they wanted to just update quake lives renderer with saber tech and add the silly champions stuff and make it ql 2.0 ... goind down that path eventualy they changed their minds and made it a whole new game.

you also don't have to believe everything willits and the gang state publicly. a good amount of skepticism might very well be appropriate.

He's the Sean Spicer of the gaming world.

It's the other way around. And there's nothing of id Tech on it, all they did was probably add some of the physics functions (for the movement) to the Saber engine and that's it.

For one it's outsourced, and to a Russian company.

And the game's graphics belong in a low budget game.

What's wrong with the graphics? Besides the clutter obviously.

Doom 4 and OW look muuuuuuuuch better, and have waaaaaay better visibility as well.

And even then that's unfair comparisons in benefit of QC, as those are 2016 games and QC will be released in a long while.

My question still stands. I mean doom 4 did look better but I attribute this to just better atmosphere and tone of the gfx, qc looks very much the same to me only with shiny colors added for no reason.

modern engine must:

use pbr-materials
tessellation
volumetric lightning/volumetric fog
additions to global illuminations such as hbao
dx12/Vulcan support to reduce cpu-bottlenecking
4k textures streaming and 4k soft shadows both for movable and not objects
large level maps with up-to horizont view distance
MotionCapture animations for game characters
widely use particles system with physics simulation
tons of poligons in 1 frame with still good frames-per-second ratio on mediocre hardware

and what saber engine can do from that list:
-none

And all I want is the gameplay to be top-notch, nothing else. ;_;

and reach 144FPS with ease

and enemies be visible

But does it differ from the d4 engine? To my eye it doesn't. And my hand can't tell if it's the engine that I dislike because of the speed cap.

Really? These are the first pictures that come up in Google:

http://cdn.gamer-network.net/2017/usgamer/Quake-Champions-Beta-Shot-(11).jpg
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9qNQHD8YzuQ/Vx-VqY...1600/2.jpg

The difference is just obvious. And having tried both I assure you Doom 4 runs way better than QC, and in Doom4 you can actually see your enemies.

So we know QC's engine is one of the reasons why the game look like balls. After that then I also want you to notice how low budget the whole game is.

The models, maps, textures and skins are clearly much more detailed in Doom4. Then QC is filled with technical issues (runs like crap and has horrible MM) as well as bad design issues (who thought we needed to wait three whole minutes for the match to start after the game has already found opponents). Then we know the main id dev team is not working on this, but Quake was outsourced to some Russian company that makes 7/10 rating games, and that provided its sucky engine. And to top it all, the guy in charge of this is fucking Syncerror. and in his fucking first project as leader.

plz choose side-by-side comparison

You have a beautiful mousewriting. Just wanted to point that out ~ <3

Now we know he's Michael J. Fox.

WMO, 125hz, 9/11, dirty SS Qck mousepad with cumstains, cola and catwhool on it
:(

guess, you don't rely on ur lg much)

It's not just the engine either, both DOOM and OW have a clearly defined artistic style. In the case of OW it's brilliantly stylised. QC is a bit of a hodgepodge and what the shit is with the weapon designs.

> OW it's brilliantly stylised

oh, c'mon

Even Reflex, an indie project with only one part-time developer can produce good netcode and a robust platform that gets the basic right (at least from a technical pov). QC looks more like inaptness than lack of funding.

It needs some large scale sacrifice maps with proper physics and team play features. It could certainly learn something from deathball or supra ball in how in functions when in control of the soul. I actually don't think the person holding the soul should even be allowed to fire.

Also as I mentioned time and time again it was never just a rocket delay, there's an input delay for all weapons. Sliding after letting go of strafe is also infuriating.

I'm sure most of the above will be addressed so I'm not really worried, however what it does need asap is proper mmr based matchmaking... or at least level based earlier on. A 5 minute queue into 7 minute stomp is not fun to stream. Its Quake so it's always going to be tough, but a stomp because players are lesser skilled is different to a stomp where players literally don't know what they're doing. It's probably why a lot of people stream duel and play sacrifice only off stream to practice, higher chance of a closer game where you don't need to maintain enthusiasm for extended periods.

Anyway I'm still excited, just wish the nda didn't drop so earlydue to all of the above.

I don't see how they can put in MM now. There's not enough people playing. Waiting 10 minutes for a FFA at prime time is evidence of that. And Sacrifice doesn't even have "players available" for 85% of the day.

That happened last week because they changed MM, to be more strict. Revert the change and it'll be fixed.

Also if QC at one point has too few players then id can start gathering players at one place, via removing servers (for example having only one US server) or removing gametypes (Sacrifice is out due to lack of players for effective MM). The latter can be done in specific locations that lack enough players to fill all gametypes, as done in LoL.

This is why servers shouldn't be added just to lower pings, and why gametypes shouldn't have the same amount of players per team. Both are bound to cause the game to die.

I'm not sure how much effect that had because I was getting matched with very good and very bad players in the same game, and often the same faces over and over.

Removing servers doesn't work well like with other games due to the susceptibility of Quake to lag. There is only one server is Australia. If not that, then 200+ ping.

What's better: to have someone to play with (100 ping), or not having someone to play with (20 ping).

Lets assume the MM change is not what caused the 10 minutes long queue times. Now split the playerbase in the MM in half, due to now having two servers = HF waiting for 20 minutes.

Australia might be fine now. It's important to oppose having a west and an east coast server, if the queues are already too long.

And also we should be against having multiple gametypes with 4 players per team, as they are competing for players and split the playerbase, just like servers do. We already have two like that, in closed beta (TDM and Sacrifice). In an ideal world QC would only have one main gametype instead of 4 and 6 in the future, which is a big reason why OW and LoL have really short queue times.

Yeah, it will work in some countries. But 200+ ping is only playable in the ultra casual sense.

I agree with you about too many modes. Though I'd want at least three: a FFA type, a duel type, and a team type.

Yes and we've all known it for a long time, the beta just made it all real.
I think that the horrible net code, the insanely long loading times, the graphics issues are secondary, they are just making a bad thing worse.
The main point is still the FPS Dota thing, the Overwatch or Team Fortress aspect. Nobody wanted this, no one, but it is being shoved down peoples throats in a truly unplayable state.
Even if there were no issues and it would run with 200 FPS on a smart watch the numbers would still be pretty much the same.

Looks like they don't have a Quality Assurance Team and they are releasing beta versions to community test it.

The beta to community, either closed beta, is to validate the Idea, like business logic or functional requirements, not to test the software.

While the game is likely to have less players than a month ago, still Twitch viewership is not a reliable way to tell that.

Yes it was a mistake to end the NDA so soon and to essentially make it open beta. And yes the game needs a lot of work, both on the technical side (everything is half broken) and on content (only three maps, game looks like balls).

I just hope the game gets more resources, both in time and money, because it's quite obvious QC so far has been a side project for experimenting stuff, just like QL was.

edit: And I hope they look at their internal data when deciding the competitive gametypes. Seems like Sacrifice is way less popular than TDM, so picking Sacrifice (current choice) would make the competitive scene really be dead on arrival.

The real problem is that most folks ditch the game because the skill gap is huge, not only because the match making is broken but simply because the game is so damn fast for most of them. This is essentially the core of Quake (or any other fast paced arena shooter) so no matter what you do, you will always target a niche player community. It's really time that you guys start to understand that, the golden era of huge UT/Quake communities are gone. A perfect netcode is not going to change the perception of the skillgap. A decent matchmaking however might reduce some damage.

Anyway, they will still make the games but only the dedicated will play it, topped with some newcomers who just have that gen to persist, no matter how brutal a game is.

All the other flaws are just another good excuse to ditch the game.

Personally, for a beta I find the game actually pretty good, I'm have a shitload of fun and am eager to play again when I get back from work, that's a good sign.

But yeah, agreed, doesn't look good in terms of numbers so far.

Maybe if id software would actually invest into Quake and develop it in-house as to fucking outsource every Quake since Quake 3 to 3rd party developers, things would be different and stick to the old formula of what an arena shooter is.

the real problem is the nice weather...

game is technically flawless, design decisions are ingenious and waiting times nonexistent

too bad all casuals are outside playing pokemon go, poor souls dont know what they are missing out

Maybe if those 2000 people stop just watching the game and play it...

Not rly a reason for duel tdm and CA diehards

QUAKELIVE 3.0 2019

Yes, it's arguably the worst quake game that doesn't offer anything unique really. Also a lack of game modes really hurts the game's longevity because most people aren't going to be playing FFA/TDM in this game. It's clearly just a cash grab.

Huhuuu, 17 players incoming.



)

Can't wait when Quake Live will have more players as Quake Champions and at that point I would like to see TotalBiscuit analyze the cause.

Maybe once a proper stats and ranking system is put in there might be more incentive for people to keep playing + MM like already mentioned.

I don't know where else to post this feedback and it's minor compared to more important issues but here goes:

I think a time limit duel where you can choose champion after any death sounds like a lot of fun. Hopefully they change to this or allow the community to try out many duel modes. I see a lot of people saying duel will be ruined by random telefrags or other abilities. But maybe the problem is the abilities are given for free, they regenerate like health in console FPS. Abilities should be earned, either by pickups or doing damage perhaps.

they should never have let go of the NDA with its current alpha stage . No spectator \ streaming mode . Loong loading times. Million bugs

But the WORST is the pathetic netcode. "120hz gameplay woooo"

wtf seriously. It is like they didnt see it coming, oh netcode? sure its in there, it runs on the interwebs just fine we think .

Even the preview videos that was recorded in LAN was plagued with delay on weapons , and warping of characters

When going from QL straight into QC , it feels like i have 150 ping and 60hz monitor again.

Also , REMOVE the queue for FFA altogether, let people just drop into a game midgame and play , watching anyone stream waiting for a game for 10 minutes, which is over in 5 , horrible noone thinks this is nice to watch .

If it still had been BETA with NDA; i would have not been upset, at all , but this is destroying quake day by day .

Btw, i do undertsand that this is a niche game and will never be able to get the amount of players that other lower skilled games will get, but thats not my point here whatsoever.

As for commercials, this would have to be advertised as a niche game, "crazy skills needed" "you think your a man ? play quake and think again!" etc etc , then showcase big profile names talking about quake and the skill needed , howtos , etc etc. Hype shit up !
Make people want to test theyr skills !
But then also advertise the lower skillmode needed mod, like ffa, get in frag have fun no care modes etc

see you all in #tdmpickup

Soon™

Knowing how online communities and reddit works, this seems to be more of a problem of first impressions.

It's still not a done case; if done right, the game can grow (or even explode) provided they make the right moves in both post-release marketing and streaming, as well as the e-sports side of things.

In the mean time the Quake community should try and be critical yet positive. Try not to look at QC with how Overwatch was dealt with. Blizzard gets a lot of hype without even trying, their fan base is huge and rabid and there's many people who only play Blizzard games, so even a polished turd from Blizzard will get a big reception.

Even before OW was fully released, I remember how communities and leagues and content was popping up everywhere. I know ID's following is smaller and QC is not really in a state to start with leagues/tournaments, but it will serve us well to get the ball rolling. In a game based on characters/roles, there could be content on tricks, quirks, strategies and what not.

Personally, I think the game is average, and on release it will probably get a lukewarm response. But if we can come back home in the evenings and play some match-making within 2 clicks, I believe that will be satisfactory for a lot of people.

Even though I agree with your post in 80% there is counter point to this sentence:

Blizzard gets a lot of hype without even trying, their fan base is huge and rabid and there's many people who only play Blizzard games, so even a polished turd from Blizzard will get a big reception

Heroes of The Storm - it has no start to LoL and Dota. At the moment twitch viewers: LoL 100k, Dota 40k, HotS 9k.

QC simply needs the team behind latest Doom and a bigger budget... +daily scheduled duel tourneys for 3-4 skill levels like chess.com has. if they want massive amounts of players they have to do those things. There is no way around it. You need to put money and you need to have many features, tourneys and rewards.

the worst thing they can do, is trying to copy others. It doesn't work like that. I like the champions aspect, but this sacrifice mode, is not working and it won't win over the competition (simple tdm or ctf are better). id has to stick to their guns. they have quake, something unique. if they are about copying someone, they might as well copy chess.com, a team that took the most boring and demanding game ever, chess (I love it and play it a lot, but it is boring and very hard for most ppl), and made it popular, creating a huge player base and making huge money. id has quake and duel, which is absolutely the most spectacular, interesting, fun and easy to watch esport. it is also very much respected, like chess... copy them. at least the daily tourneys are so addictive and will be awesome to watch streamers playing in them. it is the least they can do.

u just cant do overwatch contender when blizzard give to devs million dollars and Bethesda give 500$ and 1-year-free-donuts-subscription

It's like QL all over again, they made the same mistakes and got the same results. A true QL 2.0.

It's official, id software = insane!

blah blah blah
i can't get more than 40 fps in QC with my current comp and still i find it more enjoyable than QL

k, keep blablablabing with all the other 16 players.

I think it's just the long wait times, the lag, the uneven matches and the lack of maps and the bugs that make streamers not want to stream QC right now. All the streamers that i watched said the game was fun though. I think they will stream it if all the current deficiencies are addressed.

I think that duel is ok for esport but they should try a 10 minute version before release.

I don't think Sacrifice has a future as an esport by itself at least. They need ctf and I think they should rip off Escort from OW and try that. Escort is a great team mode and could work in Quake. If they had Sacrifice, ctf and escort then they could rotate those modes in esport like OW rotates 2cp (lul), koth and escort.

But I have this strong feeling sacrifice by itself is not going to cut it. A higher speed Escort mode with some quake flavor might be the best thing ever though. I'm disappointed that they haven't done it.

Actually I wasn't aware that OW stole Payload from tf2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0xTU9ao2KY

So I don't see why QC couldn't have a payload too. An awesome payload mode that would shit all over OW and tf2 (with respect).

Quakecon 24-27.August


Fame or Shame-= QC =-

I would honestly be surprised if this game makes it

i wonder how many people are on the development team devoted to the game (id + saber employees totaled)

> 50 or < 50?

gl to all 17 developers

The answer is yes

if you want to think about reddit, all you have to do is understand that it is a feedback loop and not a discussion. If you make sure that it is positive at first, this will be unbreakable because the community self-censors anything that is not the current majority once this is in the minds of the users.

i agree but i think twitch stats are a bad proxy
one streamer like Lirik can quadruple viewership, so when they said stuff like it dropped from 40k to 600, 30k of that was literally just when Lirik swapped to another game
all the spikes in the graph are just single, notable streamers picking it up in rotation. so you might as well do a qualitative analysis of what those handful of people thought rather than this graph.

lulz id employee detected

why should an id employee argue that the game actually has fewer people watching than one might think?

prolly i was too high when i read it

so if we have to wait 5 min for a game is because lirik swapped to another game? :D

I gave up trying to make any sense of their decisions since they lifted the NDA. After that it all started to feel like an old familiar bad joke. I'm just waiting for the loadouts update.

Beyond the waiting and the loading and the waiting and the loading and the broken hitboxes and the warping and the loading and the waiting and the finding and the netcode and the having to restart the fucking game every 3 games It actually had some potential, that's the saddest part about it.

They needed more time imo... a lot more.

Well, its beta, so in theory they still have more time

Its not a beta, beta means all assets are ready and technical issues arent game breaking. Its more an alpha than a beta.

I'm sorry guys, I've been playing every weekend and still need to find a single game breaking technical issue. Apart from some warping players I can't complain whatsoever. I did not even encounter a lot of bugs.

Missing features, yeah, but from technical POV I seriously don't understand the bitching.

I'm in a lot of early access games and QC is a polished gem compared to some of these turds.

beta and early access isnt the same

thanks for that enlightenment...

doesn't take away the other 2 arguments but whatever, you clearly feel that this game is more alpha so yeah, still valid, QC is way more polished than a lot of other alphas or early access games.

What you fail to understand, is that Quake carries a big tradition and name. This generates big expectations so the moment the game is not more under NDA and anyone can try it, people quickly try and stream it, as seen in the graph of OP. This means you NEED to have the game in a real beta stage before doing it. Less known games can get away with sad early access cause few people cares and the big moment becomes release day, or they start really low and slowly but steadly GAIN momentum. What we are seeing with QC is exactly the opposite, its losing momentum.

Not to mention a logic of "other do that crap so its ok" is typical of a mediocre mind.

:)

I have no idea what you are talking about. Some of these early access games are 1000 times more popular than QC and are from a technical POV complete garbage and are FULL of bugs. Examples : KOTK only implemented spectator mode like 2 months ago, is still FULL of bugs yet is and was immensely popular. PUBG is a completely clunky stiff game yet is the number one seller on steam, not only because streamers play it, but because it's actually fun and slow enough for the majority to understand what the fuck is going on. Some of the recently launched Arena shooters are technically OK and smooth yet the userbase is what .. 50? Do you think UT will ever go back to it's glory days? Nope, yet they made a decent attempt at rebooting the franchise.

Pull your head out of your arrogant ass and just understand that Quake and it's type of gameplay is just not of this time anymore. It slowly evolved to a niche game and will most likely remain so. Slapping some decent graphics and roles on that will not change a thing. And what do you whine about expectations, I've been playing Quake on a decent level since day 1, back in the 90s - it's my favorite game franchise and I must say that QC delivers the quake fix properly. This game is more true to some of it's legacy than QL currently is. BTW, Quake lost it's big esports status already years ago (when Q3 was still hot, mind you) to other games who are just more spectator and noob friendly.


Technically QC is polished for it's current state - I have absolutely no idea why you keep insisting one of the current technical problems is game breaking, it's not. The only thing that they really really messed up is matchmaking because all these players who have been playing quake for the last 10 to 20 years (niche, remember) are stomping everyone that come out of different background. Even there I would argue that a beta can get away without proper matchmaking but in the case of QC it's just a big fail. Queue times would be another fail although I would argue that if you actually have a chance at winning you might be ok with that.

'Mediocre mind' ... just ditch the attitude bro, you are stuck in your mindset but don't go out of the box anymore

The point is it doesn't feel like a beta. It feels like an alpha with potential but with game breaking bugs, bugs that should have been fixed before closed beta began and certainly before the NDA was lifted. Even a beta game shouldn't become a completely unplayable lag/warp fest after 4 or 5 consecutive matches.

They have rushed it into beta because Bethesda. They probably have stupid strict time tables and schedules that are set in stone.

RIP 2017 - 2017

lol

i like QC, it's a great game

i'm not even trolling

lol wwwAnyBoy you're even more retarded than I am.

(c)

jk, respect

- timer counts down
- cant bind smiley face
- cant gib corpses

what did they expect was gonna happen?

I thought the timer counted down?!

yeah it does, brain stops working late night

still playing q/cs?

finished uni now so gonna start playing again

The timer isn't that big an issue because the major items are on a 30 second respawn, and with 30 seconds, there is no difference in the result between adding and subtracting.

took me about a minute in my first game to figure that out, which is the only good thing about it (I am not sure that MaGGoTkil times though, like I am not sure that I aim :P)

what is harder is to stop adding the extra 5 secs

game went open beta/NDA lift way too fuckin' soon, first impression is awful thus game is dead before release

Naw, not in the days of Twitch. If they fix everything and the game is awesome all they have to do is pay top twitch fps streamers to stream it. If the game is fun and the streamers are hyping it the rest would write itself. Not a big deal to lift the nda early. In fact it should help speed things up and also get more feedback.

lulz

They told they started QC before OW, means ages ago.. so its normal we see no updates in half year.. 3 ppl working again.. the start was promising, now as old quaker , even I loosing hope and hype, so for random csgo noobs, its..

Take care of yourself man...life's not all about video games

Thanks. I am doing my best. Got maried this weekend! Gl to you too.

awesome bro : )

nice :), wish u the best and as many children as you want. I am expecting my first in a couple of months!

Thanks, you too! I am expecting on september 15-20 :) I wish best of luck for both of us :))

I really want to keep testing it, but it seems like my feeling for the netcode was right since its mentioned here so much.

as 80 ping minimum I just cant hit anything so I start getting angry and end up quitting playing lol. Its not optimal either for ql too but in there I know the rules to manage the netcode whereas here I am just confused on how to handle it overall.

so yeah... if the end game has the same netcode I wont be playing / buying it

Really? Aside from when Galena was bugged and like, warpy Anarkis I never thought hitting was a problem. Aiming on them (and not accidentally between the legs or something annoying) and firing seems pretty cut and dry with mg/sg/lg/rg, even at 160-200 ping which I probably spent half my beta time on because I'm silly. Dodging is near impossible, lots of rubberbanding when hit, rockets/nails are a shitshow, I'm washed up and suck but all those things are what they are I guess, dunno how to do much better with fair netcode sans actual magic.

Press A D A D harder.

Anarki is the second hardest to hit model because its hitbox is small and the dodging pattern cannot be predicted, since model lean is particularly too low with that model and .... lacks moving legs. Legs do add to predictability, which is why top players like rapha and tox aim to the knees. Regular players do take this factor into account as well, just with less focus.

Nyx is the hardest to hit because the hitbox is too small. All models are smaller than in previous Quakes already, and since now hitboxes match the models' shape rather than being a cilinder then that makes the hitboxes of the smallest characters be absurdly small, such as Nyx. All players have lower accuracies than in previous Quakes because of this issue (about 33% less LG).

There are two solutions they should implement:
1. A bit more lean for Anarki.
2. Increasing model sizes of all characters by say 20%, and make Nyx's an additional 10% larger in comparison as a whole, especially around her waist.

Increasing model sizes not only fixes the hitboxes, especially of the smallest characters, but also would give QC a more Quake-y look. One of the reasons why QC has a UT vibe is that all the characters are so small, in comparison with previous Quakes (Ranger turned into ins) and with current games (in QC tanks are so tiny they are adorable compared with OW's).

I personally find Anarki hardest to hit, with rockets or LG. His superior ground acceleration make for a bigger difference than hitbox size, and that causes aim to be more reaction based than prediction based. Combine this with the tiny spaghetti hitbox (i.e. RNG source), useless visual cues, and dodgy netcode, and he becomes a real pain.

Waiting for Ika's bigger knee champion pack™

#CTFPICKUP LIVES
AGAIN QUAKE
LIVE YES PLZ

Until Forever returns and breaks some glass again.

[21:47:39] -pq-Doom- Hi T1E. Last game started 22d 25mins 40secs ago.

you lack a sense of humour.

Team modes killed Quake (c) Disrepute.

out of the box it will be the best mp quake once it comes out.

My complaints are :

- lack of exclusive maps for gameypes.
- Party with friends to also play against them (scrims, duels, etc...)
- Tutorials, it's tricky to learn one single quake gameplay... it's even harder to explain clueless people that the champions have different movement mechanics from previous quakes.
- Proper mouse support (Seriously a game that wants to be fps esport and didn't take care of this yet?)
- Overall jerkiness of the engine / servers / player connection, could be a lot better but if reflex managed i guess ID will.
- Lore too weak.

Funnily enough i see you guys are way TOO worried about the popularity of the game... yet i've never ever seen another quake being played online by HUGE streamers or simply the game being advertised by amd and online magazines and what not.

Seriously, that's like the most exposure quake has ever had before, think about it, everyone who watched any of those streamers or bought an AMD card has considered to play the game or at least try it on arrival.

I think you're either expecting way too much or you're simply missing the point of what a beta is, either way QL is still a thing if you didn't know.

The game went wide beta way too soon. Thousands of people who tried the game will never go back to play again. Going open beta should take place only if the game needs some more tiny tweaks and extensions. This game needs solid rework, but I'm afraid it is too late.

Agreed.

The guys at id think they're on holiday or something. They are not putting in real work to this, just like oh great we have an engine now let's make some maps and weapon models and not care about the important details like having matchmaking, tutorials, visibility and good netcode. a ladder of the top players, stats and leaderboards, spectator functions, recording of demos/replays etc. If you're gonna make a game with graphics that can be so low, at least make sure the gameplay is good? The champions aren't balanced, Anarki and nyx shits on everyone with the tiny hitboxes. Its really more like an alpha

The next Brink.

If they put a percentage of the profits back into frequent online tourneys etc it will give a lot of people incentive to play and stream.

Does not have to be a fortune, but with the new graphics upgrade hopefully they can get nvidia, ati and a lot of the hardware guys in to give away prizes for sponsor ship etc.

I do social media on the side for a few places and they all spend several hundred quid a week on facebook ads etc. Yes I'm one of those annoying fuckers behind adverts:>

Giving away stuff, and paying people to stay interested in your game is a legitimate necessity. Hopefully this is why they got Zero 4 in, as I can't imagine a yearly quakecon tourney would require dedicated job. But I'm sure they could use people like Zoot/NVC etc to be proxy casters or something.

the obvious problems with he game will have to be fixed.

Just boot up quake 3, you're into the title screen in seconds, select game type, scan servers. You could get a game within 30 seconds.

The wait times in champs gives you a long time to think about the other issues.

oh and please fix Anarki because I'm tired of his BS.

I still cant believe they nerfed Slash yet Anarki still untouched. Like cmon, technical issues should have been fixed before no doubt, but changing some integers in the champs definitions is dirty easy, so whoever is in charge of balancing champs is an absolute prick towards crouchsliding, and a cpm/qw whore.

What did they do to slash and not anarki?

Slash had 25/50 armor, they nerfed her to 0/25 AP.

The reasoning was "people is saying slash ability is too stronk, but its hard to change, lets just nerf her APs, what could go wrong?"

So with less armor and less speed than both anarki and nyx, she went from top tier to meh.

Fair enough but the real nerf to both these champions is the speed cap. There's no point in having either of those abilities only to be gimped at 600 or 660 ups.

so much this

all the balance changes are irrevelant till they wont fix this shitty netcode and hit reg

if they want to be busy on something they should work on new champions for the time beeing

img

/o\

the nvidia gaming sponsorship budget has been blown on winD and ATI still haven't paid their last water bill

only Alexey A can save quake chempions

QC is just taking a road of many unsuccessful online shooters and making all the same mistakes. Unfortunately it's very unlikely it will be a great game.

I see it having an audience of few thousand people and left on life support.

Quake Champions screams , Chuck some maps together make a couple of characters release it .......

I was a DooM fan

I was a Quake fan

I was a Star Wars fan

I was a Alien fan

The list goes on..........

I regret ever saying they&#8203; should have made more, they should have left well enough alone, please stop trying to steal our money by pretending to create our dreams.

Hey dude, at least in the gaming industry they did good with these franchises

Doom 2016 -> kickass
Star Wars battlefronts -> kickass
Alien Isolation -> sweeeeeet
Quake Champions -> good in my book

Battlefront kickass?

Your employer Disney really sucked the soul out of Star Wars, but sucking things is a regular exercise at Disney, I hear, so I guess its fine

lol you won't let that go, will you?

I will fight the good fight

I suspect the fact it's 3 years I work for a different company won't make a difference, right?

:DDDDd

And thus, your image of a smart, funny and most importantly, actually good-willed guy, is restored, at least in my eyes. Sorry for the personal trashtalk man, but I was molested by disney executives when I was a child, so theres that.

I mean, this is why ESR and those of us who still frequent here is to gaming communities what a dilapidated house heavily contaminated with arsenic in lead is to a few stragglers.

Plenty of valid concerns and criticisms with how this beta has been run. Not all betas are run the same. And there are valid claims about it being closer to an alpha (yet honestly, I've played plenty of late stage open betas that were buggier -- and yes, closed betas that were more polished), yet the game is fun. And, at worst, more enjoyable to play than basically anything out of a major studio that has come out in years.

I guess the problem I'm seeing here is that I'm agreeing with a lot of your criticisms, and your suggestions are pretty good, but you and the rest of ESR jumping on the dead on arrival train is a bit absurd.

I can kind of see where the 'it's Quake 4 all over again' sentiment comes from, but I don't see them as comparable. First off, Raven had just entirely fucked up Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast right before they were brought on to work on Quake 4 (depressingly enough, the launch was solid, it was all their decisions for the couple patches they bothered to do before they fucked off that killed the game). I'd say Saber would have to start randomly mailing people shitbricks just to start matching Raven's track record.

Secondly, id is showing a lot more involvement in QC relative to Quake 4. There is no Single Player campaign sucking away resources, it's all about the core MP. They are banking on a successful e-sports scene for the game, and as we saw when they scrapped what they had on new Doom and basically started over, they are in a position these days where they really can't fuck up any of their titles or zenimax will probably just downsize their office to function merely as a placeholder that has a few valuable IPs that they might be able to do something with down the road.

And anyone who makes and comparisons to QL should have their keyboard taken away and forced to use Dragon Naturally Speaking 2 for the rest of their days. Can't even compare something that started as a side project Carmack gave to junior devs for a 10 year old game with an entirely new release.

I'll never get that when people seriously ponder why QL failed; it's a fucking relic. Even the almighty Brood War died out as soon as Blizzard flashed some sexier, thicc Starcraft 2 ass. (glad to see the old pros return to BW though, still dope to watch)

If you're moderately pessimistic or moderately optimistic at this point, given we only have 3 maps, are still technically closed beta, have had many of the major problems acknowledged, promised a bunch of good features, and whatever else you want to drum up -- I'd say you're reasonable. Anyone who thinks the game is already dead (or it will be a smash success) needs to quit sitting in their crawl space breathing in mold spores all day.

It's also reasonable to expect to be let down given history, but on the other hand if you've already seen the death of the game in your crystal ball have fun playing CA with the same brain damaged manchildren for the next 10 years, I'd rather at least enjoy a little bit of life into something I love and move on from gaming if I have to. Lord knows I could use the extra productivity.

I just don't get how this collective attitude does anything more than act as some sort of group masturbation ceremony for some of the most negative minded losers the Internet as ever collected in one place.

Now that I got that out, gotta go back to camping out at my mailbox for that sweet, fat check from id.

I tried to give the ++++++

tl;dr

brood war never died and it was always the more popular starcraft game (in Korea). bw tournaments in Korea stopped because blizzard forced the kespa switch to sc2.

guess what, blizzard is now making bwhd because sc2 has been doing poor (or worse) for years and they're trying to get some more money from the scene they killed in the first place.

a lot of streamers didnt bothered to stream since id changed the que system

i have seen tox wanting to stream on friday and after an hour of queing he just gave up

on the other hand no one wants to watch non-pro quake players, and they arent willing to stream either

i hope the numbers will give some food for thought to devs and they will let go with this 'yeah a lot of people complain but i like it the way it is' mindset - which they have shown on their last stream with tim and z4


i have wrote about 50 posts on closed beta forums during first few weeks, but i just gave up seeing their attidute

i hope the numbers will give some food for thought to devs and they will let go with this 'yeah a lot of people complain but i like it the way it is' mindset

I honestly doubt these people are capable of admitting their mistakes or even realizing they've made any.

Sync & co. obviously have a vision of what the modern Quake game should be and that vision contains zoom damage, health rounding, speedcaps and short-term invincibility. Even after QL, they still think that this crap will somehow miraculously make newcomers like the game and stay for eternity, nevermind that in the meantime the actual noobs have to ask questions about the very basics of quake in twitch chat.

QC is a good game at its core, but the core is buried in bad design decisions.

i think that if the trend will keep up they will HAVE TO pull back

it's a new game that betheseda invested a lot of money in, and they expect a decent results

even in QL they pulled out of load outs, even though the game was not far from current state

if QC is going to flop as much as it looks to right now, ID is more done than obsidian was, by fucking miles

/wishfullthinking

id is not done, doom 2016 was a financial success, and it was inhouse. What this may mean is the death of quake, i mean of a quake renaissance.

No point streaming for the 4 players that are likely to watch it unless you are a pro.

I need Careem's take on this complex matter.

he has a great investment opportunity for you

Hell viewbot QC streams like he viewboted his heartstone stream and save Quake

Line with an approximated average of the "normal" points of the graph, namely were big streamers like Lirik arent taken into account. If you fail to see a decreasing interest in the game, your either blind or a retard. The lirik argument fails flat if you have 2 neurons.

I was very optimistic about the game but its clear the people behind it have a too fixated idea of some gameplay elements like zoom damage and round based duel with fraglimit, while having to cope with a bugged netcode that not only isnt improving but going backwards.

All this wouldnt be so critical if game was still behind NDA and on real close stage.

Take a step back. Relax. Everything will be fine. :D

Lol zoom is not a problem.. but netcode and atleast duel round systems is BS.

I'd rather play with cheater than with zoomer!
Zooming is adultery level fucked up!

90% of beta forum posters think zoom damage is a problem, youre in the 10% minority.

lol, who gives a fuck about extra few damage with zoom :))

again, 90% gives a fuck, dont be narrow minded :))

I am very open minded. I am fine with zoom damage or without.

It's stupid but not really something that makes the difference between a playerbase of 1.000 or 100.000.

Your dont get it, its just an example of their "head in the sand" attitude. If you ignore a 90% poll, youre also ignoring a lot of other things that most of your playerbase wants. Result? Shrinking player base. Its really simple.

Polls don't work, look at how "successful" opensource community games are. Individuals rarely look at the whole picture, unless they are deeply involved in the project themselves.

You need 1-2 people knowing what is important and how to achieve it.

Yeah working great for QC -.-

I did not say they have these 1-2 people atm.

Probably has more to do with marketing, brand, and resources than anything else. But yeah, sometimes polls produce bad results. I don't think the zoom damage poll or the health rounding poll were examples of that though. :D

Who votes on these polls?

1. Idiots
2. Not idiots, but lacking experience
3. Not idiots, experienced enough to judge about the matter

And those who fall into category 3 may still completely disagree with each other, for the simple fact that there is not solely one good way to do things.

Idiots were right this time. :D

There's more to it than just the poll anyway. There's the arguments given, and those reveal who is the idiot and who is not.

I am not defending extra zoom damage. My point is, polls can serve as a pointer towards things that go wrong in your current design. But if you know what you are doing then you don't blindly follow the opinion of the crowd. Otherwise you are useless as a game designer and should not be paid for it.

I agree generally. We want great game designers with a vision (especially one not completely blinded by money), not a democratic process. But also, 90% of about 2000 votes against is pretty damning. You'd need at least 800 complete idiots in there for that not to be a judgement against.

I mean, it's not even the type of vote that would be very biased by people's selfishness, like say a vote for a mode to be added.

I don't know the reasoning behind including it in the first place. And honestly I don't care about such details until they fix the basics.

The reason is brainfart. :D

It's supposed to subliminally trick a noob into using the weapon at long range because apparently that's the "correct" usage for this weapon.

These things are small problems, yes, but it makes you question the mind that came up with them. :D

Health rounding is an even bigger brainfart, also claimed to be for the purpose of helping noobs, but could not possibly do so---at least not for the reason given.

The only way it could actually do that is by introducing randomness, which it does very well, because the less skilled always benefit more from randomness.

Ok I saw the reasoning now in the "ask the devs" thread.

Concerning the Railgun, our intention is to introduce a radial charge meter around the crosshair upon zooming-in, and only once charged would the additional 10 damage become available.

So basically if you are able to predict the opponent well enough you can get 10 extra damage points. I don't know if it really adds something gameplay-wise but why the fuck would everyone freak out about that? Or am I missing something?

Because it's the cherry on top. This sums up the developers. It solidifies the notion that they're clueless, because it's not the only thing that people are freaking out about, is it?

Although the speed cap does that for me personally.

First, people were upset from the beginning with rail doing 100 damage just for zooming, no charge or anything.

Then they dropped it to 90 because for whatever reason, they couldn't stomach the idea they were wrong and just remove it altogether.

Now, they have plans for a zoom charge up, most likely because people were just using macros to get the additional damage on every rail.

What you have quoted is their plan, not their reason. Their reason given is:

It positively reinforces that the railgun is a long-range weapon, rewards the player for using it at long-range, but it comes at a cost of remaining in a tight FOV for an extended period of time leaving the player vulnerable to being flanked from the side or having reduced mobility through the arena, all while still fully allowing the weapon to be shot from the hip at any distance or on flick shots.

So like I said, it is attempting to teach noobs the "proper" way to use the gun---as if the fact that it is a long reload, high burst damage weapon is not enough---through the introduction of pseudo-intuitive mechanics. A simple tutorial would be far more effective.

The zoom damage, the way they plan it to be, is probably not going to be a significant thing, so why even bother. But if it is, by their own explanation, it will promote reduced "mobility through the arena". This in a game where the duel mode is more rail heavy than it has ever been.

Yes I summed up their reasoning with "So basically if you are able to predict the opponent well enough you can get 10 extra damage points.". If you cannot do that, then you get punished due to the tight FOV.

I guess Nzr0 is right, and also some people simply love to complain. However to me it is like complaining about the color of the steering wheel when the car is lacking a tire and can go 30mph max.

But I understand that if you already have to tolerate the lack of a proper duel mode, broken netcode and the worst visibility in any Quake game then any small thing may be the final straw.

Well, this was really a conversation in the context of devs listening to players and testers.

You are right that it is like the colour of the steering wheel. :D

I dunno whether it rewards prediction or just camping somewhere with the rail out though. Burial Grounds is already great for that due to its wide open spaces. Duel is a bit more predictiony, but you don't have to worry about getting attacked from the side as much there.

The zoom factor on that rail isn't even very great. The FOV isn't lost much because of zooming but because of the overlay they draw on the screen when zoomed.

That is a bad comparison especially when we have skins(which if I may add nobody is complaining about). It's more like having extra speed in the corner if you brake earlier or some shit like that. Which again pales in comparison to other shit(a goddamned speed cap in a "fast-paced" shooter) like a missing wheel. But why would you expect a manufacturer who made both those mistakes to be able to fix either of them? When they can't even acknowledge that it's a mistake.

because it adds little to nothing for the "depth" of the game, and i don't buy those bullshit they said

but the real problem is it show us (the player base) that they (the developer) don't know what the fuck are they doing.

They changed the health and armor system to simplify the game for newcomers (which is very unnecessary and ruin the core gameplay), but then add those "zoom damage" for complexity in strategy

that's why people freak out, they scared that the game will fail because of those dumb-dumb decisions

I am not involved in the developing process but my (somewhat) educated guess would be that they cut out strategic elements that are difficult to grasp for non-quakers, and replace them with elements that carry over to other games.

I don't think that they are retarded, it may just be too big of a task for that team to deliver a game on an Overwatch quality level.

Oh but the health and armour rounding system is mighty retarded. :D

Leagues worse than zoom damage. A pickup can give you almost 3x more based on factors no one can control, like leaving a fight with 13hp instead of 12hp. It also means which order you pick up items can affect the total you get at the end by a large amount.

The reason for it they gave makes no sense (Zelda hearts encouraging noobs to pick up health or some shit). The only legit reason I can think of is that it adds randomness, and randomness benefits the less skilled player.

Yes seems like they wanted to get rid of health as a continuous number and do the "modern" discrete number thing. But the latter does not work with the variety of weapons in Quake, so they ended up with a foul compromise. Makes no sense at all, especially if you encourage the player to keep track of the damage he deals by displaying damage numbers..

But the game is still in beta, so will see if they keep it.

Syncerror doesn't understand organic game design using simple elements so he is forcing design using bad hacks. The zoom bonus damage is a case in point. Railgun is already defined as a long range gun because it's effective there while more of a risk at shorter range due to its combination of range damage and reload values. He has an objective in mind so has invented some overcomplex and silly gameplay rules to drive it rather than using the more fundamental levers. If he wanted to emphasise the ranged nature of the railgun a longer reload would have been better.

When 2GD sends new people playing FFA and ignore duel*/team modes, you know the game is failing hard.

*not actual duel.

not actual team modes either, more like 4-man coop FFA-style, both TDM & Sacrifice

- Poor netcode
- No high visibility config
- Clumsy hud

If they fix these basics before release, it can still be successful.

If they fix these basics before release, it can still be successful a good game.

fix'd.

I posted to their forums that I was sick of waiting 10+ minutes searching and the game will die without server browser. It will die in Australia fast and in more dense populated area soon after. Its junk that you cant properly see if ppl playing or have any idea when/if the match will start, then loadiing, then back to menu after the match for all this fun again! Its certainly DOA here.

I can jump on QL server 30 seconds and stay on server playing. I wont sit on that menu screeen pressing search search search and honestly I dont think anybody else will longer than 6 months.

So in response to my post I got a DEV/Admin responding which was nice, and they said "we are working on makiing matchmaking fast"

Well thats great but most countries arent even going to be given a server and im not going to main a game where i cant just get on a server and chill with other quakers for afew hours. This fact I believe will kill this game single handedly so forget rail zoom and other stuff when this one "matchmaking feature" can kill the game singlehandly.

I dont want to delete matchmaking but just add server browser also, then i can get behind this game.

I really just want to slap some1 at ID. There is millions to be made here and million more to be made on quake5 if this game does not bomb yet it makes me sad that they are gonna ruin it for the players and their own bank accounts.

This is id software and this is not anything new. Wake the fuck up ID SOFTWARE please.

If a server browser is added then MM times are going to increase, as there will be less players queueing using the MM, so it's not a good idea to have both if the game is already struggling with players.

It's 2017. Server browser-only is out of the question. The solution is to improve MM, and add a very limited server browser so it's only used for tournament, scrims and FFA with friends play rather than becoming the main way to find matches.

The best way to improve MM is to stop splitting the playerbase. QC already has 4 mods (+CTF is on the way) and like 10 server locations only five weeks in. 40 possibilities to queue in, soon to be 50 and in the the future it could be hundreds, as more servers are added. In America there are already 3 servers, so soon to be 15 queues. Instead, in OW every single person from North and South America is on the same one queue (one location and one mode), so no wonder the waiting times are way shorter.

What they should do is just start removing excess gametypes and excess server locations. It's absurd how in close beta soon there will be 3 4v4 gametypes competing with each other, so two of them should be removed. And about servers distance is not the only factor but also amount of players. So, one server in NA, one server in SA, three servers in EU (they have enough players to afford that and Russia could use one of those three due to distance), one in Asia, one in Australia, one in South Africa.

Additionally, they should implement that MM browses other server locations in case there's too few people in the one selected or the server is down, like in OW. In OW you just press Play and can't choose a server: MM does it for you. Yes that rarely means you will play with 130 ping, such as when the local server NA or SA server is down or Top500 players can't find good matches in their location but can in the whole America's region, but this guarantees you'll find matches and find them fast. In QC my record waiting time is 15 minutes in one queue, tox's is one whole hour before quitting (him manually trying different servers). Non-hardcore Quakers surely leave after experiencing those waiting times, because they mean the game is practically dead outside EU.

Or at least they could make some gametypes unavailable in certain locations due to lack of players there. Say in SA make it so you can't play Sacrifice on that server. Even LoL with its 100m players does this, so that there you couldn't play the 6v6 gametype in certain locations such as SA (when it existed -- it was removed afterwards from all servers due to lack of popularity), and there was a time when 3v3 was also unavailable in SA and was re-added years after when the game became more popular there.

Imho at the moment they should take down QC for a few months and come back with new iteration of reworked game based on tons of community feedback we gave them.

That would be great, doubt it will happen tho.

Agree!

Agree!

The game isn't bad.

It's treason to all the Quake basic principles, but it's good looking and edgy and gorey and dark and that's all that matters to most.

IF the game won't be popular, and it's too early to tell, it will simply be because people just don't like those games anymore.

Someone mentioned Unreal Tournament. That's right, it isn't coming back either. Those games appeal to nostalgic 30 years old players.

New generations don't know, don't care and don't like arena shooters.

It is the genre that's dead.

"IF the game won't be popular, and it's too early to tell, it will simply be because people just don't like those games anymore."

WRONG

You also need a proper technical base (netcode, matchmaking, performance) and adaptable devs that respect polls with >90% results, to name a few. QC went "live" (anyone can play, streaming allowed) without covering those two basic premises.

I really want Quake Champions to succeed but I can't actually bring myself to play it for more than an hour.

It's a shame there's been so many piss poor design decisions, as the game feels decently fun to run around and frag.

Who is paying SyncError? I mean who actually has this guy on a payroll and can't see what a useless, clueless turd he is? And I am honestly blown away by Zero4. I never in a million years thought that he would be the one to destroy the Quake eSport scene.

- Zoom damage, why? He says, it brings "new strategies". Ok this guy is fucked. Can anyone give me a logical reason why zoom damage is considered good. Like holy fucking shit, why are you giving an incentive to zoom in? Zooming in should be an optional choice for the player. You're literally encouraging people like Heartless to go play that shitty QL map with zoom bound to mouse2. Not to mention new players will run around zoomed in, that is even if they realise that you actually can zoom for extra damage.

- Duel format. It is absolutely shit. Takes out all the fun in Quake, the epic mind games, the rampant spree comebacks and genius tactical control playstyles (cooller, rapha). A best of fucking 5 in FRAGS. What kind of moron thinks this could possibly be good?

- Queue times - Search, Draft, Vote the fucking map, have a wank, load the map, watch some QuakeCon spinny logos, and finally, you get to kill a guy 3 times twice and then you wait another 3 minutes to leave the fucking game.

- Hero's. Firstly, I actually enjoy the hero's, but the moron balancing them at ID is clueless. The unique movements and abilities do not feel overpowered and are fun, and whilst some stuff may be too strong, that's easily fixable (by people other than LifeError and ZeroClue). However, the HP/Armor pools and how that works, is absolutely shit. It makes no sense, absolutely zero sense to give such large differences in HP pool when you also want everyone to run around and zoom rail. This type of balance makes me depressed, and I can only think of SyncError munching a fat chocolate doughnut in the morning as he walks into the office of giant turds spurting out this bullshit system. Why the fuck would you make all armors look green. Red, yellow, it was FINE.
You take one fucking rail on anyone other than Godzilla and you have to get the fuck out and start stacking up on the 500 25 armors, or charge your ability up. Boring, dull, bland. Amazing, jaw-dropping skirmishes that last 30+ seconds, with two stacked players displaying immense skill, movement, and weapon usage, is now gone.

You have one of the greatest most thrilling respected group of players at the top of Quake. Go find me a single youtube video of a big grand final that has any reasonable amount of dislikes or shitty comments. It doesn't exist. Why? Because top level Quake was fucking fun, and the different layers of skill, and not only raw aim or campy rail style could work, there was tons of playstyles that were effective. It was interesting and appreciated. You just don't fucking support it. At all. Never have. I remember once you tried to start charging ESL back in the days for your tourneys, or never even promoted the fucking scene on your main website. It's a disgrace. You shit on it with the way the game mode is at the moment. Present me a counter argument for this please.

Notice how I didn't mention stupid things such as netcode, lag, or low FPS. Those things can and will be solved once the coders(probably coder) has magical brain waves.

The rest are my main problems with the game that won't be solved if you have a stuck up, arrogant SyncError in charge. I've already got bored of QC, watching it, talking about it with friends, it's just gone off the radar, and I'm only posting this so hopefully the people from ID can read it and realise how, once again, they've dropped the ball on an extremely good opportunity to fill a void in the FPS scene.

All the hype tells you that there was potential, and fuckloads of it. And all of that quickly vanishing tells you that I'm right, along with what others have said of this turd.

Peace

Well said well said man! Give this man a medal!

Dont know about the medal, but a 99%[+] would be a good start.

Minus the excessive derogative terms towards people that arent necessary, he nicely describes the scene that only blind fanboys and retards arent able to get. I will stop posting in the official new forums too, lots of snowflakes and id/bethesda lickers. I will keep playing here and there till basic things like netcode and performance improves, which at the current rate will take a long long time, live on twitch.

esreality masterace

dno if raged or mad cuz bad.

Zoom damage is so, so dumb.

Agreed about duel. Have they ever released a version before this without rounds? Or would saying so violate nda?

They definitely need to release a beta of duel with 10 minute rounds and the ability to change heros (to any hero) after you die (maybe the first hero pick before the duel starts is hidden to add a little spice). They should do this and see what happens, because the way duel is now is pretty bad. I'm already bored of watching matches. Something that didn't happen in like 7 years of watching ql duels.

Agreed, duel should have been left mostly unchanged, with the difference that you can pick any of your unlocked champs when you die, so to "mix" with the champ thing.

Leave all those creative ideas for team mode.

You retain the duel fanbase, and add a team mode that the more casual fanbase can enjoy, win win.

> and the ability to change heros (to any hero) after you die

Question: Would that not create a sort of 'hero round robin' kind of scenario if they did that?

Like, say we start a duel and you pick Hero A while I chose Hero B.

I die and pick Hero C because he hard counters hero A.
You die and pick Hero D because she hard counters Hero C

and on and on. Do you think that would happen or not? I don't know, I have not played QC. But merely choosing your opponent's Hero's counter would be boring as fuck to play and watch, if that were the case. =(

This is why I ESR.

Reminded me of Angry Video Game Nerd halfway in :P

Laughed hard at "LifeError, ZeroClue and Godzilla".

fun post. however duel was always a boring and garbage. you can design what ever you want, it will be garbage. if you did anything worthwhile in duel design, you will fail just like LifeError and ZeroClue.
your points are moot.

to zar4:

You don't know ID software story? There are NONE of old tech personnel left there. They went away immediately when new management team came. Because of how they treated people (literally like sh**s). And you want that they would care for community? They care for MONEY only.

Sacrifice?! Get rid of the weapon pickups and a bit more start amore, then it's perfect lolca rofl rofl

Yo, fellow quakers, why so hysteric?

We all could agree about the frag-limit, netcode, meh design and overall look, crappy MM, stupid zoom-damage and so on... But why would you write all these endless furious essays, with all this CAPSLOCK its like its some Anger Contest XII or what?

Man, you all sound like somebody's standing on your fucking leg or smth. Thats some bloody videogame, ya know? A free one.

??????????????????

This is bacuse of all the clueless haters spaming the official forums with important issues! Game was super ready for NDA lift i tell you! Bad bad toxic players telling exactly what was going to happen, so bad, bad people. Poor game so ready to be shown and a forums was able to kill the game. Im sure that now that Bethesda killed the old forums game will skyrocket!

There's already a new forum, and I'm sure the whinging will continue there too. :P

https://bethesda.net/community/category/26/general-discussion

Only problem with losing the old forum is losing all the content there, some of which was useful.

How is it new if there is already 31 pages on it dating back to April? o:

Maybe it is not new, but either way, that is where all the discussion is happening now that the closed forum is dead. :D

so, you're whining at nda lift now, but in the q.c. discord you were one of people claiming id would shoot themselves in the foot if they have nda on beta from start.

so, you have no clue wtf youre talking about

about zooming : if anything it should make less damage. I'm confident QC will fail as many were expecting, not that i am happy to be right but that was all to be expected.

Less than 500 viewers, during Saturday's daytime. Not good news at all.

edit: or all quakers really like football

I was actually there today getting mobbed by Spanish and Italians for photos of my dog so maybe the football killed it:/

A picture of a fat british-looking woman becomes "mobs" of spanish and italians? Like they didn't have dogs in spain or italy.

everyone likes dogos

I didn't take pics of everything. And she was foreign.

What a spectacular creature, absolutely stunning.

Yeah, it's a nice dog. :D

Beside the fact that strafejumping is difficult to understand and to perform (hell, even UT's movement system is difficult to learn for a noob, even though the instructions are crystal clear...), any oldscholler knows 60Hz monitors arn't comfortable enough to play fast FPS.

So whatever game designs are chosen or engine tech used, success on a large scale ain't gonna happen anytime soon anyway.

In other words: LMAO @ 4k fags

Failing @idsoftware hates Quake fans, won't listen. Low energy! Sad!

Many such cases.

Zoom railgun does help breaking the control better. Without the rail everybody can practically +back better by just keeping the distance. This is why as a far example in QL on dm13 you would hardly see comebacks from 6-8 frags difference. If you try to comeback and you use the MG you cannot deal enough damage per second before the enemy would disappear again. Zoom rail does add on top of this to punish +backers who does it by keeping distance.

Its way easier and more common to hit zoom rails while +backing. Your argument is stupid

He's baron Railgun. :D

more like faggot faggun hue

"Its way easier and more common to hit zoom rails while +backing"
This is not CS you would still miss. Watch pros duel. If +back with rail would be successful as you might think it would be used a lot but it does not work basically you never know when 2 pros exchange rails who would hit more regardless of their situation - +backing or attacking. As a matter of fact the only pro using with great success +back rails was k1llsen in QL at gamesgun 2010 when he was in the best shape of his life, whatever the reason after that he stopped using the rail in a smart way anymore.

Ultimate +b weapon helps breaking +b gameplay.

Time for some bleach.

If that were true then dm13 would play completely different from all the other maps. In reality they're all a +back fest and it has fuck all to do with rail, it's because you have no aircontrol. Meaning you cannot force a battle as easily because the rushing player is far more predictable in his movement. The only exception to this is aerowalk with its teleports providing some leeway towards the attacker. But even on that map I can remember abysmal +back games which morons here like to glorify.

on dm13 you would hardly see comebacks from 6-8 frags difference

Yeah, try ztn and a 4 frag difference. Hell 4 is a won game, I can remember 1:0 games long before they fucked up the spawn system. So long ago it might have been q3 and not ql.

Another factor other than movement/positioning is that the rocket launcher has a higher impact on making games passive than the railgun does.

The RL makes it hard to chase. But without the RG, if you don't chase, they'll have a much harder time doing damage on you while +backing.

Well, no. Imagine comebacks on ztn without the rail -because the rail is practically the only weapon that can deal big amounts of damage with accuracy at distance.
When you are not in the lead and have to recover a 5 frags difference, you have 3 kinds of situations weapons wise:
-you come close to your enemy to use the SG or the RL ---GL with that!!!!!!!!!
-you come to middle distance to use the RL and the LG --might work but if the enemy is aware and smart enough to keep the distance you are f*ed
-you can deal big amounts of damage from the distance by using the rail --idiots would say that the usage of rail in +back ways would deny your comeback, forgetting that in order to engage to comeback with a real chance to success you have to have SUPERIOR stack, which then divided by 50-50 rail percentage between you and your enemy, just would give you the comeback

So as we can see the rail does have a big impact on serious comebacks scenarios, not just because it is an additional weapon

If he's hardcore +backing, the map is yours, by virtue of the fact that where you go, he doesn't go. You control where he doesn't go. If he comes to the item, then you can fight him, and it's not +back anymore. Otherwise, take all the items, read your opponent, cut him off, kill him. Without the rail, he can't hurt you much while he's doing this. He can't negate your pickups from afar.

Yes, it's not as easy as I make it sound, but a "comeback" isn't supposed to be.

But both of those pale in comparison to the movement and spawn system. As evident(I am pointing this out again) from Q3 being +back only slightly less than QL.

As boring as +back can often be, I don't really find relentless charging all that interesting either. :D

My ideal game would punish both.

I enjoy watching games with good reads on opponents to cut them off and close the distance without just chasing.

I usually find high level dm13 games more fun to spectate than ztn, as heretical as it may be. :D

My ideal game would punish both.

I enjoy watching games with good reads on opponents to cut them off and close the distance without just chasing.

Oh yes, I love watching chess for the skill also.

Congratulations you're part of the reason shooters will continue to get dumbed down.

There's nothing smart about "relentless charging" btw. :P

neither relentless +backing

I agree. I thought I made it pretty clear I wanted a happy medium between the two.

Look, I like an action packed game as much as the next guy, but if you take away the ability of your opponent to effectively punish you for chasing, all duel will be is A charging B repeatedly until control somehow changes, and then B charging A repeatedly, etc.

I mean, that's what pub CA and FFA are for. It's not something I find entertaining in pro-level duel tournaments.

People, myself included, often make a lot of fuss about Quake being a cerebral game with more depth than meets the eye, but there isn't a lot of those things in the gameplay I described.

As for chess, well, I think chess could be quite entertaining to watch if moves were timed and if I had the slightest clue what was going on in the players' heads. Those things are usually a lot more apparent when spectating a game of Quake duel, so it is a lot more interesting than a non-expert watching chess.

This isn't about "dumbing down" because that ain't smarter. It's not about making the game easier either since it is just changing the proportions of how much each skill is rewarded. The game I'm talking about would still reward aim and movement strongly.

QC on the other hand is a game that has done nothing about +back (and has actually made it much worse) and, as far as I can tell, hasn't really added any depth beyond Ranger's Dire Orb. :D

Yeah I don't get why you want to punish chasing. The guy is chasing so he can get a kill. Which is the whole objective of the game. And here you are telling me you want to stifle that. Why?

I already explained why.

all duel will be is A charging B repeatedly until control somehow changes, and then B charging A repeatedly, etc.

How could it not? In this hypothetical game, there'd be nothing stopping A closing the distance with B whenever he pleases.

The objective is to kill, but that doesn't mean it has to be done in the most bone-stick-stone stupid way possible. It's not like chasing is the only way if the map is half decent. It's not a big long corridor where the only way after him is by chasing.

Increasing frags per minute doesn't necessarily make the game better (to play or to watch, but especially to watch if we're talking about pro games). It does depend on how you make that happen.

It's not like a player will ALWAYS have the ability to punish a chaser.

In any case, this is a matter of taste and has nothing to do with simplifying, making it easier, or "dumbing down" like you made it out to be.

all duel will be is A charging B repeatedly until control somehow changes, and then B charging A repeatedly, etc.

And how is that any different from what ql is now besides the fact that it results in a lot of camping instead of frags?

Oh and frags per minute absolutely make the game better to watch. They make the blowouts more fun, they make the close games more exciting. Because a 1 frag difference in a 1:0 game is a boring cat and mouse game, a back and forth 25:24 is cat vs cat.

Oh and frags per minute absolutely make the game better to watch. They make the blowouts more fun, they make the close games more exciting. Because a 1 frag difference in a 1:0 game is a boring cat and mouse game, a back and forth 25:24 is cat vs cat.

If you cannot maintain map control for more than 30 seconds then either the player is shit or the game is shit. In both cases it is certainly not a better watch.

Oh yeah, you're right, it's much more entertaining to watch a game where one can keep control for the whole game but get what... a frag? Control for the sake of control. Amazing. Why is it that I have to argue with supposed FPS players that frags are a good thing?

If QL is like what I described, then QL is exactly what you want, right?

No, it isn't. Isn't camping almost the opposite of charging?

You seem to be saying that relentless charging in QL results in camping instead of frags. I'm confused. :D

What I meant is that because rushing your enemy is so easy to punish it leads to an overly defensive playstyle where no player will commit to a fight unless at a huge advantage. The result being camping(not in the strictest sense) instead of frags.

Yeah, so there needs to be a balance, not removing the ability to punish completely.

As for QL, I see the fact that if you're not chasing, and your opponent is +backing, he can still damage you with rail to be a bigger problem.

If he wants to +back, that's not so bad if he can't hurt you in the process. That alone would make +back less effective because you could just take all the items while he's doing it.

As I said earlier, the bigger problem is the lack of aircontrol. Regardless of the rail the attacker always sacrifices unpredictability for speed. This is why in ql/q3 pros just DO NOT commit to fights unless 100% sure they'll win, there are no pushes where people think they have small edges. This problem is exacerbated by the spawn system because even if you've collected all the items, that takes you a good 10-15 seconds and lets say you decide to finally commit and get a kill. Well your 200/200 stack just killed the enemy's 100/100 but you're most likely about 100/0 and he gets to spawn on the other side of the map - where the items are about to spawn. So you just gave him an opening to get back into control. I do agree that the rail should be removed(at the very least in duel) but I do not blame it for the +back that is QL duel.

Ah well, we're not gonna solve all the problem here today. :D

another thing to note is we are not getting any surges in new registered users.. a couple a day, just like a year ago. 275 users online right when im writing this

We need matchmaking.

You write a post.
Click "Post"
And it puts that post in suitable thread.
No more looking for monkey business thread!

I wish there were servers you could join and just play non-stop on if you didn't feel like playing matchmaking-queue-online.

Honestly the biggest turnoff for me is that you have to queue up all the time just to have some 5-10min FFA fun. When I have time to play I wanna fucken play, not sit and wait. First to find a game, then to look at the champions (seriously wtf) and then 5-10min of actual gameplay. If they must keep it like this, at least increase the fraglimit by A LOT, like 500+.

Honestly the biggest turnoff for me is that it's not 1999 anymore.

Fixed.

Being able to play the game without having to wait and watch 47 intermezzos before and after the match is a thing of the past?

Btw, the 1999 argument got old a month ago.

Yes but we are speaking integration of quake.
"Esr is ______"

Nah far from it, I don't mind fancy graphics and shit but even battlefield lets me join and quit servers as I want, so does CSGO. Just because you have matchmaking doesn't mean you can't have normal servers for just playing the game if you couldn't care less if you're rank X in some game or just wanna practice and play thirdparty tournaments/leagues. If you just wanna grind and get better you'd probably just wanna play non-stop instead of going through the entire cycle all the time.

If anything, instant action should be more 2017 than 1999.

I'm sure they will add something like this in the future though, otherwise practice will be impossibru lul. But right now it would also help people to get more time playing the game and discovering bugs instead of *SeArChInG fOr MaTcH 02:53*

The problem is QC's system doesn't really work. In QC it takes like 10 minutes for the system to work (including in those the three whole minutes of unnecessary waiting screens), and then comes 5 minutes of actual gameplay. In contrast, in OW you are assigned to another match in like 30 seconds after the previous one had ended, so playing a new match actually takes way less time than in Quake games in the 90s.

There are many solutions to the problem, while keeping MM:
- Just remove the waiting screens. When you get paired by MM first the top part of the screen turns green so you have to press the ready up button (takes 10 whole seconds and pressing it doesn't have any effect). then there's a vote map screen that takes another 15 (just auto assign the map and get rid of that screen altogether), then another screen for waiting for people to connect, then a one minute warmup. None of those is in OW.
- Be able to queue in multiple servers. Reduces waiting time.
- Be able to queue in multiple gametypes. Reduces waiting time.
- Get rid of the unnecessary queue lines. In LoL, Dota, CS, OW, etc. there's only one main gametype, which means practically everybody is queuing to the same place and that lowers MM time. In QC's closed beta you already have 4 gametypes and there's another in the way (CTF). Sacrifice and TDM shouldn't be competing for the 4v4 gametype spot, and then most likely CTF is going to be 4v4. In QC there should be one or two ranked gametypes, so everybody goes there (say 4v4 Sacrifice and Duel), and then the rest become unranked so nobody cares about them. Then modify the existing gametypes so that they don't compete against each other (only have unranked FFA, unranked 2v2 TDM, unranked Duel, unranked 3v3 CTF, unranked 4v4 Sacrirfice). In a perfect world there would be only one gametype, but since those are already developed then we can't just remove gametypes altogether.

At least half the reason for all these unnecessary waiting periods is that the game isn't very well optimized, so some people take a long time to load the map. Before I realized I couldn't have lighting detail on low without introducing 10x the loading period, there was only 9 minutes on the clock by the time I had loaded the map.

If wait time is really as awful as you guys say, id should just give us spinny logo and sucking bawlz through tubes. This way, we get QC and the most fun parts of QuakeCon all in one.

I spend 60% or more of my time in QC waiting. It's probably not so bad for everyone; the Quake population is pretty small here.

But even if it only takes you 2 minutes to find a game, there are so many other waiting points (ready up, map voting, map loading, champion intro, countdown screen, warm up, round intermissions, respawn delay, endgame podium (that you can thankfully skip with escape key), and main menu loading).

Well, some of those aren't id's fault. They can't help it when two people are pitted against each other and both of them are the kind that never, ever F3 first.. lol =) But map voting should end as soon as everyone votes(and should not count spec votes as part of that waiting).

The "ready up" I'm referring to is when the matchmaking has found a game and you accept or decline. This is at least 15 seconds and is often cancelled at the end of those seconds.

That's different from warmup, which is a set period of time (1 minute).

I don't know what determines when map voting has ended. It's probably about 15 seconds or so.

Ahh, okay. Thanks for the clarifications! I've still not played it(and, frankly, I don't think I will judging by the negativity I see *everywhere* about QC, whenever it comes up).

The things you listed are largely silly in how many things make you hurry up and wait, though, it would seem. =(

Well... at least we still have QL. ))

Well, I thought QL was pretty much dead here, but it seems QC isn't much more active. :D

It's worth a try, but if you're like me, you are gonna get frustrated in the game sometimes by the total bs that happens. :D

You nailed it. I think my biggest gripe with video games in 2017 is the deliberately added RNG and "random bs". I'm totally fine if I lose due to being dogshit. Losing/winning to random BS feels cheap and unnecessary.

The bullshit factor is very real.

Sometimes I just get whipped by bad players who I beat on the regular. It makes no sense.

Also getting a bit tired of spending 4-5 seconds LGing a freshly spawned player, especially when they can just one-shot me with vomit.

He's right that something needs to be done about the waiting. If 2017 is supposed to be better than 1999, then I don't see how waiting longer than ever is a part of that.

This is the same company that thought they could glamorize waiting in queue in 2009.

If we see past the glaring issues that will be fixed down the road like the netcode, poor optimization and so on... its not looking optimistic to say the least. Why do I say that, well, if any other quake iteration is still, after all these years, superior to this Overwatch-Quake mash-up, then its alarming to say the least.

These two core concepts pushed by LifeError™ and co, so mainstream that they make Katy Perry look pale in comparison (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-4GkdupfTw), being shoved down our throats with empty platitudes like: "its 2017 dude, get on with the times", "why you need picmip, can't you aim bro" -- all of which is simple means to justify them going sellout.

*Trivialization
*Homogenization


You are not doing anyone any favors here. There is already a niche for Justin Bieber of FPS -- its called Overwatch, Call of Duty. Where mindless casuals get to meet and clash, and when they get bored of FPS they move onto Hearthstone or FIFA where they are set to win 50% of the time by default (too). They don't want to be challenged, they don't want any tryhardery, these dads moms and kids of 2017 want instant accessibility, instant gratification and as much RNG as possible.

So where exactly does QC slot in here? Well, it doesn't. Those who want a challenge at highest echelons -- they'll stick to CS:GO/League. Those hardcore quake/fast FPS players they'll eventually go back to QL/reflex and so on. What about the noobs/casuals? They'll go back to Overwatch, of course. If they want Britney Spears, you don't give them a cocktail of Black Sabbath and Katy Perry, and vice versa. That's fucking ludicrous.

It might be a good sign that the oldskool quakers don't really like this game. Because if this small group really enjoy it, like this small group enjoys QL the game would be DOA for sure..

So for the devs at id software my advice would be to do some things very diffrent than that this hardcore player base wants. This sounds a bit harsh QL is dead. If it was so great it would be alive and big.

QL had his time, it was great, but times changing. New players are not attracted by oldskool arena shooters. I'm not happy with that fact but its reality.

Personally i love QC. There are some major bugs that need to be fixed. I'm going to switch to QC when its released. Let's hope we get a big update this weekend before the Bethesda E3 presentation monday 12-06.

It's not a good sign that quakers don't like this game. People still play/played QL because it's a great game.
A basically 18 year old year old game that people still put thousands of hours into.
Quakers know what a quality FPS is. Why would they else stick with the same game for so long?

Consider the possibility that Quakers maybe just don't like QC because the game is ass.

" Because if this small group really enjoy it, like this small group enjoys QL the game would be DOA for sure.. "

This is retarded and illogical. People can like different things.

Many QL players now play H1Z1 or PUBG, those games were certainly not DOA, they offered new and exciting gameplay. Something QC does not.

Newsflash: New players are not attracted to QC either. It will never be big.
They changed too little to create something new.
It's still very much an oldschool arena shooter. Just with worse mechanics than a game from 1999 and with badly slapped on hero characters.

You love QC because you want it to be a good game, you want it to be a good game so much that you can't see that it's a shit game.

long-time Quake players don't like QUAKE is a good thing? What?

Are drugs legal in Botswana?

Updated twitch viewership numbers:

To all the experts saying that the RG is a +back weapon: I dare you show me any important t4 game in the history of quake where they used the rail with defensive purpose in mind and it went quite good LOL -and yes I am aware of fazz vs z4 eswc 2003 game or cooller vs z4 on t4 yet the idea is that heavily inclined toward rail maps are the least defensive maps, you faggots (I think at idiots like the Polish pacman ie don't get everyone offended by this pls

i have that kid on ignore tbh

AND I DON'T WANNA MISS A THIIIIIIING!

10-15 min and no game to find.
yes, the beta is dead, the final game, let's see...

"Player available" my ass

Just add in a fucking server browser

had to wait 5mn to get a deathmatch game, left at 5mn in cus it was just so boring. Nothing has changed.

From someone who's played from an earlier alpha to now, the game is getting worse after every patch. Clearly a dev team that is lost in its direction... It clearly is trying to find a way to market the game to casuals and keep its core.. problem is, their game was poor design from the start, so come the problem's..IT CAN BE FUN, and it can be horrible.

Duel is currently the only thing keeping the game alive right now...For some reason people like to duel.. I am not, i am a team co-op competitive gamer, and was happy to see sacrifice, only to see it is in a horrible state right now.. hence no queues... So now you lost the team game, problem is.. all maps are mostly for team games and do not work for a duel scenario, especially with class based fights...

They are hashing together new maps to fix this and it shows.. The netcode has always been an issue (to me it was hackers not netcode, but whatev's... there is issues when you have up upload bandwidth.. that is obvious, but that is because most code is client side right now.. anyhow..

Finally, the team game... its a horrid clusterball of garbage action... where most all fights are 5m or closer... yet the melee weapons are the worse to choose.. (gauntlet)

Everything is a 5m pt blank rocket from a tankier character with more shields and health, there is no fragging going on, just zerg stupidity...

They bugged the gauntlet a few patches back and the game was actually enjoyable... if you zerged the sacrifice mode points, you got owned by the gauntlet.. this was actually fun, once they removed the bug (which i think the bug was intentional at the time to try and get people to quit zerging and standing on the capture point to defend) well, the game was completely unenjoyable and dead.

So with sacrifice you have strategic team defenses, but this design is to quakers is actually ANTI-QUAKE... so now you pissed of more people who think sitting defending a flag is stupid. (this don't bother me, i just want a fun competitive e-sport) but you now created drama with your IP. I like the tactics.. but then you have map balance.... its horrible, because the classes are horrible....

Unfortunately its a game destroyed by a team who didnt do their homework and tried to patch together a game without laying a
proper framework, creating maps that reflect the game mode.

You can just see everyone in dev team is probably scrambling, quitting, fighting, and the only ones suffering are its players...

Outside this obvious mess, you have cheating... when 75% of your player base is cheating... how can you manage balance.... you cant.... and yes, that many were cheating in alpha, this game more than any other game, can you actually bait and easily tell if another player is cheating... you can feel it when they are cheating... its such a difference from a real fight to a fake one, aimbots, wallhacks, strafe hacks that move when you shoot, you could actually use weawpons and make your enemies move how you want, cuz of that hack lol..

The game can be fun, but it can't please everyone and every mode... And the maps are just not able to cater their class designs... you can't have these narrow halls with this fast movement, jumping, etc, and then really open parts... its too much zerg... you can't have this big maps and use them in duel, and you can't have non asymetrical maps and expect a fair team co-op sacrifice game... flaw after flaw shows the design issues.

if they can make ranged shooting a thing, with anti zerg counter measures, the game is a fun co-op game, but with the cheating, and the current issues... there's a reason the only game popping is duel, duel will not make this game franchise money or bring it success.

In short this game should be halted and come back in a year after a retake or scrapped, if they are releasing this soon its not quake, its a for sure Doom

Quack quack quack

dot dot dot

also you should complain on the beta forum rather than here

about which game is that guy talking?

You are clearly racist against the Zerg. :D

Block and then punish with uppercut, easy.