kung fu bitches all get beat down in town at the weekend, they are middleclass, boxing is from the ghetto and take a whole different angle on dealing with different situation

conner going down was easy to predict

You have no clue what you're talking about. If that was a street fight, Floyd was gone in a minute. But not just Floyd, any boxer would be completely lost even just in a kickboxing match. MMA fighters are on a whole other level of preperation. They train for so ,much shit, kicks, grappling, elbows, almost anything goes.

To add the icing on the cake, you should know that you're more ghetto than Floyd. That's right, the GOAT was born rich.

conner only survives by his round house, its easy to kick his knee out, its just all the other kung fu bitches are too dumb to notice

the only person who worked that out is van damme, and its why he has his forward facing "not round house" kick

this is the best thing i ever did see coming from a kung fu bitch

Boxing out of all sports or skill sets require the highest amount of physical stamina and conditioning next to mua thai. So you're talking absolute shit when it comes to comparing those skills.

Mayweather could've easily ended the fight but if you have any clue about boxing you can see how Mayweather was reading Connor and only struck when he knew he could land and get maximum points.

Landing punches against boxers might be one thing, but landing the correct shots is another.

Kuddos to Connor though, having the balls to try and knock Mayweather out.

its not about the discipline or sport, just know how to fight is all useless if you don't know how to deal with different situations


kung fu fights are only fought in a ring, street fighting when you young, have bins and bricks and knives involved,

its another mentality

never agreed with one of your posts so much.

Nah, boxing requires less stamina than MMA. Wrestling, kicking etc. all burn way more oxygen than merely punching.

Mayweather actually struggled way more than he should have. Remember Conor wasn't supposed to land a punch, but ended up landing more than Paquiao.

Imagine Mayweather in the octagon.

there didn't seem to be much power behind conor's punches though.

I wouldn't say that. He wasn't able to land clear, but he did seem to have snap and weight behind his punches. It doesn't help if you can't land them, but that was to be expected.

He landed quite a few clear, forceful punches, but yeah, the majority of his puncheswasnt clean hitting.

Gayweather is one of the biggest spoiled pussies in the world. And the fact that you are trying to be so petty about it is lame, boxing is a sport while "kung fu" is a selfdefense techqniue

calling him gayweather repeatedly doesn't quite give you a lot of credence

I guess. It's both a joke and a reflection of my sentiment towards him. Did you ever see how he dresses outside the ring? Yes, this isn't actually related to the fight, but I was trying to bring down Port whos talking shit about real martial arts.

Also, if you care about such banalties, then I'm not really your guy to talk to anyway, I guess.

I just don't find it funny or useful when talking in a thread about a boxing match involving him, where he is one of the greatest defensive boxers ever.

Is he? Clinching and using your meaty body (in particular, his bull-neck) is considered great defense now? And I thought boxers liked good movement, tactics and dodging skills, but I guess I was wrong.

The adjustments he made during the fight were impressive, and in general the stuff he has shown and achieved is enough to say he is one of the best defensive boxers out there. He is (or at least was quite recently) the one with the best defense if we're not talking relative terms. Possibly best boxer of his generation? There's a lot of reasons for giving him respect regardless of him being a cunt outside the cage.

Well its not like I dont believe you, but the McGregor fight was the only fight I ever so from Mayweather, so I hoped you would point out some attirbutes that make his defensvei game so great (Im not very knowledgable about boxing).

And pointing out his success isnt impressing me, considering that its widely spread that he handpicks his opponents like a motherfucker. That southeastern-asian Paquinno (?) guy was only ever given a fight after he became very old, not before, that left a bad taste too.

The Conor fight is not the fight to watch if you want to see Floyd's defensive prowess. Conor literally posed no threat so Floyd walked straight ahead. Floyd promised to make it entertaining, said he would walk him down, take him to deep water, and stop him... Exactly what happened. And Floyd is a shadow of his former self.

Not to mention much of what Conor landed wasn't clean or effective. I will just say that Floyd's sparring sessions leading up to the fight were probably more difficult.

If you're seriously interested, just go to Google "Floyd Mayweather Boxrec" - Check out his boxing record. You can start at his first pro fight and work your way up the list... All on youtube. The man is/was a phenom, won his first title at age 19.

Career Highlight Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26v_qC81db8&t
Career Highlight Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmdJXCBU068
Defensive Highlights Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQYeSXpC244 (And that guy he's fighting first "Canelo" would take Conor's head clean off his shoulders if they fought)

I see questions regarding some of the "rough stuff" Floyd employs in the ring. Use of elbow block, forearm positioning, etc. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2wW7zqH87Y - Short and sweet. People who think they are going to bully Floyd usually end up shocked.

If you want to have a greater understanding of boxing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTSJqpOkgRo - Legit technical breakdown of many of Floyd's skill set but also will provide great insight into boxing. This video is seriously great.

If you want a martial art comparison to some boxing principles, this is a great video that breaks down boxings use of Bruce Lee's 5 ways of attack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTO6abQFs14&t (Fixed Link) - This video is seriously awesome.

(Sorry, I love boxing. Watched it over 30 years. Any questions or information you want I'll try to provide. It's a beautiful sport. The Sweet Science)

Awesome man, Im gonna work through the videos now. Thanks a lot!

PS: Your love and knowledge for Quake were a nice addition to the Quakecon, hope you are back in this function asap

"Legend has it that when Floyd jr was born the Dr tried to spank his ass to get him to cry, baby Floyd shoulder rolled it and countered him" - Great YouTube comment, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZnMsB7vX6c&t - ESPN Sport Science breakdown of Floyd's shoulder roll.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5yNDw-ewgs - Mayweather getting cracked. For those who think he was going to get KO'd by Conor - LOL. The man had never even been knocked down by a punch in his entire career, and you don't fight 49 times without getting caught. The guy has always had a solid chin. (Floyd has one official knockdown in his career. He took a knee when he broke his hand in a fight.)

Thank you for the kind words on the casting. Working on it, and plan on improving as I go along.

The 2nd link is wrong, I think. Anyway, the shoulder roll video and the other videos impressed me quite a bit. His dodging (and how he keeps himself only half-guarded sometimes, allowing him to go for a counter) , his ability to find (creative) space for weird punches and his tactical approach.

Still not a fan of the "roughhousing", but I guess that because Im a bit naive when it comes to boxing, I guess its not really against the rules by any point.

Alright, you convinced me that hes a great boxer, on a technical and mental level :D However, what do you say to those claims that he cherry-picked his opponents a lot? Is that bullshit, or is there some truth to it? Thats what I heard especially before and after the Pacquiao fight.

ALSO, just watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQjvXRcnPvw This is pretty insightful on how damn observing Floyd is, even inbetween rounds hes looking out for how out of breath the opponent is and so on. The guy sure hates losing (Floyd, that is) :D

All I know is Floyd has defeated more current/former world champions without losing a bout than any other boxer in history. If that's cherry picking, LOL.

5 weight division champion... Floyd is the best I've ever seen at 130 pounds (Super Featherweight) His fight against Canelo was brilliant at 154 pounds. He retired at 38, with 5 of the 8 major belts in 2 divisions. He was essentially the man in both the 147 and 154 pound weight classes at the same time at age 38. I have to keep pointing that out. Most boxers are completely finished by mid 30s. It's a young man's game for sure.

In regard to the Pacquiao fight taking so long to get made, there is history between Floyd and Top Rank Promotions. (Manny's promoter). Bob Arum used to promote Mayweather, and there was some bad blood after Mayweather left Top Rank. Bob Arum is no fool, and he knew perfectly well Manny would lose to Floyd. (Arum would say Floyd was the best boxer he's seen since Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard when he was with Top Rank) Use Floyd's name in the media, while promoting Manny's fights against other opponents. Once Manny lost and looked a bit washed up, throw him in the lion's den. (Floyd Mayweather) Then you get the large payday. Well orchestrated and got Top Rank paid as they were able to milk the popularity of Pacquiao for years under the belief he could beat Floyd.

In reality: Manny never had much of a shot of beating Mayweather. There are a laundry list of technical reasons why. If you're interested in pre-fight technical breakdowns that really exposed how difficult that fight was going to be for Manny, I will provide. In short, the bout was NEVER going to live up to the hype. Easy money and lots of Pac fans lost money that night for sure.

FYI - I fixed that second link. Check Floyd getting nailed. Dude has a chin, always has.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaOtFt-kZGs -- This is literally how I felt after the Floyd/Manny bout. LOL - easy money. "I told you for 6 years he wouldn't win, and you bet on Pacquiao anyway"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1Mt4z8VXeE - Actual Floyd/Manny post-fight technical breakdown. First one is more laughing and talking trash at the idiots who lost money.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfQViBtbEcA - Post fight review #2

Let me know if you want those pre-fight technical breakdowns. Manny was going to lose before the bell was sound. The post-fight videos have the pre-fight vids on the same channel. Dude was spot on with his pre-fight assessment, just some people did not want to listen. Easy work, easy money.

I also messed up that link with Bruce Lee's 5 ways of attack and how it's implemented in the boxing ring. I fixed the link above but here it is again: Great video and the music goes well with it. Since people love MMA I think it's cool to show the same principles exist in each combat sport.

You can also find much of this stuff in original boxing textbooks regarding attacking long before Bruce, but obviously "Bruce Lee" brings far more attention to it. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTO6abQFs14&t

" I think if he went all in and tried to close it in the first few rounds he might've been able to do it, "

That's excactly what he did, and that's exactly why he gassed.


Anyway yes, it's absolutely astonishing that he did so well as a complete novice. It makes boxing look bad honestly. Stats show he landed more punches than Paquiao. Let that sink in.

And almost as much as Alvarez, but Alvarez fought two more rounds. Mind boggling, if Conor trained only boxing for all his career, he'd be undisputed goat.

I mean, he trained 3 months and got so far?! It's ridicolous. He also trashed former champion Malignaggi, who was out of shape, but active until not so long ago. And with 16 ounces gloves and headgear.

Conor has insane natural talent. In 3 years he went from unemployed plumbing apprentice to numer one pound for pund fighter in mma. Imagine if he started training when he was 3, like Floyd.

How about checking the facts before you make wild assumptions, McGregor trained boxing when he was little, in a good boxing gym under a well known trainer, simultaneously to mma.
Boxing is an essential part of mma, in which he specializes. He trains boxing under another well known boxing trainer for his whole career.

Shocking was that Mayweather got hit so much in the first 3 rounds, but it can be attributed to him going forward and looking for hard counterpunches to knock McGregor out.

Shocking was that Mayweather got hit so much in the first 3 rounds, but it can be attributed to him going forward and looking for hard counterpunches to knock McGregor out.

If I remember correctly he barely threw, and this is counter to his explicitly said plan. If he did try to do that in the first 3 rounds, then McGregor is a genius for making it look so meager.

On the one hand McGregors boxing was pretty good, on the other hand he gassed out again, which everyone and his dog warned him about against Mayweather (even Mayweather himself referenced it).

But, he acknowledged it in full at the post fight press conference that his cardio is his weakness. We can see an even better fighter next time when he can overcome this flaw

How about you actually follow the sport instead of checking wikipedia or shit like that. Mc Gregor had a very minimal boxing amateur career before going to MMa gyms. So yeah, had he trained boxing since 3 years old, it's very reasonable to see him at the top, considering he did better than Paquiao with just 3 months or so of pure boxing training.

Pretty much, I think you exaggerated in a couple sentences (him being undisputed goat, we couldn't know that, and only training mma for 3 years), but McGregor's performance basically proved this wasn't a pointless pursuit, the gap was way lesser than experts thought - it was even exciting.

McGregor has an incredible mind, ambition and talent.

"That's excactly what he did, and that's exactly why he gassed."

No, he still left enough room for himself to go the distance to 10. What I meant is to literally leave nothing in the tank by trying to close it in 3.

I Agree with everything else. The stuff that happened with the Malignaggi story was pure comedy, kept following it everyday before the event.

Damn, not only you don't follow either boxing or mma, but you actually don't even do any physical activity whatosever. Going all out for the first rounds was always the plan for Mc Gregor, and it's what he did. I don't know what you expected him to do more to gass in 3 rounds, life isn't a videogame. If he actually boxed conservatively, he could have gone the distance. But that wasn't their aim.

Cool story. I Watch both and do 40 minutes of running every other day. He could've invested more.

Lmao. How? Doing jumping jacks in between rounds? He already fought like a maniac, and objectively too hard. He should have invested less.

He was going very hard, I don't see why he should have gone at it harder given that he wasn't landing much (despite landing more shots and a bigger percentage than some boxing greats) - the time when Mayweather opened up was when McGregor was tired already, so leaving something for the later rounds is worth it for the chance to do something then. In the end, Mayweather just managed his energy in very smart ways, and Mcgregor didn't have the threat / variety or composure to overcome that.

Stats show he landed more punches than Paquiao.

Did you watch the pac fight? Mayweather took pac seriously so he was on defense (plus pac had a torn rotator in his shoulder, he flurried once in rnd 4 then had stopped entirely). Against mcgregor, mayweather was literally just walking forward cos he knew conor couldn't hurt him.

Ah yeah, "maywetaher wasn't actually trying" as the ultimate resport to defend Paquiao. A 0-0 novice did better than Paquiao. The kid has talent, there's no denying.

Basically, the same as what you said. Except that I was actually shaking my head at the way Mayweather fought... Bowing his body, covering up his head and turning his back to hide. Turning his back because he knew Connor wasn't allowed to hit him etc. If that is world class boxing, then I am not a fan of boxing. Really ridiculous ruleset if somebody can fight like that and not have points deducted. Every time Connor tapped him in the back of the head, it was talked about. Mayweather was the one doing the dirty boxing and rule abusing.

At the end of the day, it was a boxing match, the rules saved Mayweather. In any real fight, in the UFC, it would be lights out for Floyd very quickly.

Both guys are laughing all the way to the bank. Floyd has his 50:0 and McGregor has a massive payday. It's just a shame McGregor gassed again, I think that even with Floyds rule abuse, McGregor could have taken him had he not gassed so early.

No, Conor was instinctively taking Mayweathers back as he even admitted in the post fight conference. He could have avoided and sidestepped, as he did on a few occasions.

I agree that did not look very professional, but it happens when fighters of different styles clash and wasn't even an issue. The rest was Mayweathers usual fighting style, avoid getting hit and counter.

What's so pretty looking about mma fighters hugging each other on the ground for minutes? But if you know what's going on, it will start to make sense.The difference is only your understanding of the situation

True for most "turn the back" stiatuion in that fight, but once McGregor had a serious start on him, and was about to combo him, but Gayweather just turned his back on him to get a timeout.

Gayweather is a big fat (as in, literally fat too, he's meaty and has a hell of a strong neck, thats what saved him against McGregors punches) pussy

Don't forget the elbowing while clinching action. The funniest thing to me is, the ref even called him out for that during the first quarter of the match, constantly "FLOYD NO ELBOW", but he kept doing that and the ref just seemed to gave up.

the ref was constantly out of position and couldn't see half the shit :<

Didnt actually observe that, but if its true, then thats sad :( He was a bit old, wasnt he?

Yep, really old. I didn't notice too, was focused on watching the fighters but, Luke Thomas pointed it out to me (I embedded it below).

Gib link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db8R6MyMKiA

Pointless

NEW BLOOD VS OLD BLOOD

Suprisingly entertaining fight, McGregor is probably one of the few good punchers in MMA.

I wish you fucking morons just shut the fuck up :(

don't forget to take your meds

shut up moron

C O O L L E R
O
O
L
L
E
R

ITs BJ BABY!

Some little old geezer vs not a boxer have a boxing match and people are excited, willing to pay to see that shit? God damn there are a lot of stupid people.

Instead of the Quakecon final we had maybe we should have maybe had some old school q2-q3 player from the late 90s early 2000s vs a starcraft player.

The fight was actually broadcasted live for free on "Dazn", for Europe and a few other countries.

I saw it a the cinema last night, went in at midnight, watched all undercards, stuffed my face as I thought I would break the diet for a night, then on way home (7am) I had gallstone attack ( I think its that or something really serious) and had to stick a suppository up my ass and I overdosed on morphine (they gave it to me after having this before-they say 5mm, I went with 20mm) to get rid of the pain so I been messed up all day. Then I nearly had a fight with a polish guy because I gave his dog a custard cream and he gave me shit for it, but he was only 5'5, saucy c**t.



I feel great now though and going back to watch what I eat.

Fight went as expected, Floyd was just feeling him out, nobody is going to give the guy shit for trying and making a fortune.

Badou Jack fight and Francisco Fonseca were decent.

Glad its over so things can get back to normal.

Man, this post turned out to be something completely different than I expected :D

And this, people, is why Jamerio is an AAA+ poster on ESR. Take notes and learn.

That after this amazing performance for McGregor there are still idiots proclaiming it was a shit fight and not worth watching etc is absurd, McGregor performed way above any reasonable expectations and made it an entertaining and exciting fight, with Mayweather able to overcome him after doing the adjustments and as McGregor was gassing.

Thinking it's going to be a boring match was reasonable before, thinking it was not a fight was a stretch, but seeing how McGregor performed and still repeating the same zealous hater crap about *not a real fight* is means you're an ignorant tool trying to be cynical to sound smart.

boxing is gay

why ? Because it's like instagib, you have to master your rail aim/dodges to death, and that's all, very limited ammount of versatility, autistic combat sport

mma is the real thing, can be compared to 1v1 thunder (cause of 7 weapons to master and/or use + much more different situations you have to master)

duel is like chess boxing, or chess mma, a lot of strategy, quite a lot of combat-skills, and a shitton of different situations to be mastered

so in conclusion i rather master duel or 1v1 CA than instagib

they are all shit and for pussies who are scared to go into town at night to get wet pants over

"so in conclusion i rather master duel or 1v1 CA than instagib "

wow :D

boxing is actually just like 1v1 thunder, only 1 weapon and only ADAAADDDad dodging, no real movement or map control like in duel, tdm or ctf. quite like there's no grappling in boxing or kicking/submissions.

conor is always gassing in the later rounds, its always been like that.

i didnt have any favorite, i was just hoping for a good fight and may the better man win.

now with that being said i dont like the thing that mayweather is doing where he turns his back strategicaly to avoid taking damage, like in the very begining of the 8th round.. he does it way too much.

i mean how are you going to turn your back to your opponent, it means you cant take it and you basicaly cower.

but other than that mayweather did very good, he sure as hell went for it in the later rounds.

worlds best boxer beats guy who is not a boxer in a boxing match

Remember when strenx quit playing , retired then after 6months he played on the internet vs a 2000 elo guy, got beaten and the demo ended up on esr?
I dont recall that all you casuals talked about how that 2k elo "performed above expectations" all that totally meaningless shit because it was clear that strenx performed much lower and no, it wasn't the match of the century. The diff is at least you know about quake.. not too much about boxing.
2 years out Floyd was missing a lot, was jerky and unsure. Just like you if you skip quake for long, it is the same feeling. I trained a guy after a layup, even though in sparring he looked better (not much though) he totally froze under the lights. Watch out for stiff figthers they are out of sparring. Look at hopkins how he performed in his last match and compare his movement.
Out of sparring Signs are :Stiff jerky movement, missing a lot of mid difficulty/ easy shots, taking a lot of punches in situations you are normally not hitable, balance issues (over and under commitment of b.weight)..
This wasn't anything resembling a high level match for either side.
Look at how mcgregor moves normally and how he moved there, he was out of his element, he uses kicks to setup his hands. He is known for the left cross and not his jab which is a must have in boxing, it helps you clear the distance among other things. For christ sake Nick diaz slapped him, and even though he surely improved you can't go world class in a span of a year. Look at floyd missing against a guy who has his chin out. That would never happen normally. McGregor shouldnt box at all btw. All that talk about karate stance and infighting went out of the window. An out of practice old guy tkod him in the later rounds per expectations not despite.

Im just so fucking right

the fight it was exactly what I was expecting

was probably somewhat staged. like, give the fans some action. you Conor we all know u will gas out at some point, but u won't look bad since u would go toe to toe with Mayweather. the ref won't let Mayweather to knock u down and will stop the fight before that and u can whine that he shouldn't had stopped it. we will all look good and that is the general plan guys.

"To add the icing on the cake, you should know that you're more ghetto than Floyd. That's right, the GOAT was born rich. "

Where do you people come from?

http://national.suntimes.com/national-sports/...childhood/

Across a glittering 20-year career, Mayweather transformed himself from tiny gym rat to boxer and brand with a global reach of 30.5&#8201;million social media followers. But it has been “a very long journey”, he explained, rising from poverty and joining the professional boxing ranks to amass 49 victories, 26 of those world title contests in a reign as a five-division world champion.

“It wasn’t easy. I had a very, very tough upbringing. It started in Grand Rapids, Michigan. My dad was a fighter, my dad’s two brothers were fighters, and every day my dad would take me to the boxing gym,” he said.

"My mother's brother shot my dad while my dad was holding me, when I was a little kid... My mother was on drugs and my dad went to prison for dealing drugs, and he wasn't small time."

"The five-weight world champion claims his father used to beat him and at one stage of his childhood things were so hard his family of seven lived in a one-bed flat with no heating or hot water."

What an Icing on the cake, right?

Please learn to properly respond to posts and not put your answers at the bottom of threads. If you see a comment you want to reply to, hit the "reply" link at the top right of the comment and write your post in the appearing textbox. If you're replying to multiple people, make separate posts, each in its appropriate location.

I know how to click on reply see comment 36 for proof.
I just did not want to dignify their sillyness and frankly I dont give a duck who reads it or where it appears. This topic isnt that important.
I separated the two "reply" thematically though can I have a plus?

Btw I have just got wind of lacceh "contribution" to this topic. Watch me using the reply button with mean intentions.

Boxing is so fucking boring. May as well just have them both bang their heads against a wall simultaneously, first one to pass out loses.

1) all staged. artificial hype. hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. tickets, bets, pay-per-view, merch, sponsor products, etc. would be staged even for MUCH LESS $$.
2) can't be black vs. white if genuinely aiming for a remotely fair fight. blacks on average have lower IQ and higher testosterone, thus carry an inherent physical advantage. (no I'm not racist, shut your fucking mouth, it's a cold hard statistical fact.)

racist

from his post i conclude that vegans hate blacks more than they hate animals. i wonder if they are willing to eat blacks...

facts aren't racist

where does intelligence/IQ have a place in this discussion?

scroll down and find out.

you could have simply stated that they have advantage because of higher testosterone, but the fact that you included the lower intelligence bit and

(no I'm not racist, shut your fucking mouth, it's a cold hard statistical fact.)

leads me to believe you're a big dirty closet racist

no, because that would imply that they just magically have an advantage over whites, but that isn't the case, it comes with a cost in a different area.

http://www.esreality.com/post/2890101/mcgrego...pid2890548

sure you can call me racist repeatedly(what an original 'I Win' argument) if that makes you happier, I really don't care, as long as you concede that facts aren't racist. they are just facts.

can't really box off intelligence via IQ imo

floyd is one of the smartest boxers of all time, yet apparently he can't read

i just think you're generalising too much

If black folk would stop causing the majority of the crime then

how does being less able to quickly solve math, language and logic puzzles give you a inherent physical advantage in a boxing fight?

not sure if troll or retarded

I conclude from this post that no actual thought went into the idea that you can gain a physical advantage in boxing from having a lower IQ. Therefore I dismiss it as complete nonsense, since the general notion that you can be better at any physical sport by having a lower IQ is completely ridiculous.

You can be better at being a racist. Low IQ people excel at it

to be fair he said higher testosterone is an advantage which it undeniably is

I said: "lower IQ and higher testosterone".
You completely disregarded the second part, and created a straw-man(focusing only on the first part) where I argued that they have an advantage due to lower IQ, which I most obviously did not. So, congratulations on your fallacious logic. Either you were being deliberately obtuse, or you are actually retarded and lack reading comprehension / can't follow simple logic.

blacks on average have lower IQ and higher testosterone, thus carry an inherent physical advantage.

this statement undeniably links the lower IQ with the inherent physical advantage. Reading it as to say that only the testosterone leads to the advantage is reading it wrong. My reading comprehension is perfectly fine, it's your writing comprehension, and by extension, probably your thinking, which is severely lacking.
Gramatically, "lower IQ and higher testosterone" are one single combined object (what do blacks have?), a list of two objects, linguistically implying it's their combination (i.e. both of them) that makes blacks carry an inherent physical advantage.
Statement wise, if the IQ is not tied to the physical advantage, why did you even mention it?

what you're doing is called splitting hairs. and you only mentioned IQ for some reason, as if I made the claim that it is purely due to lower IQ, even though now you're arguing that grammatically it should be interpreted as both being the cause, so you are contradicting yourself here, because you did not mention both in the first place, you arbitrarily picked one.

it was obvious to everybody except you, that the higher testosterone is the cause/sign of increased physical ability, and I'm fairly sure you understand this, you just wanted to nitpick something.

I mentioned it because: 1) they are related in the sense that it displays increased physical ability while at the same time slightly decreased intellectual ability, so the advantage(or disadvantage) is offset by the other one. kind of like rolling a character and giving it +1 STR and -1 INT.
and 2) the studies I've seen on this link the two together, quote:
"Studies suggest that high testosterone lowers IQ (Ostatnikova et al 2007). Other studies suggest that increased androgen receptor sensitivity and higher sperm counts (markers for increased testosterone) are negatively correlated with intelligence when measured by speed of neuronal transmission and hence general intelligence (g) in a tradeoff fashion (Manning 2006)."

that's why. now kindly fuck off, and stop wasting my time with your pedantic bullshit.

so you are contradicting yourself here, because you did not mention both in the first place, you arbitrarily picked one.

I was intrigued by the idea that lower IQ gives you a physical advantage. That testosterone might give you a physical advantage seems pretty reasonable.

it was obvious to everybody except you, that the higher testosterone is the cause/sign of increased physical ability, and I'm fairly sure you understand this, you just wanted to nitpick something.

I genuinely thought your idea was that lower IQ would lead to a physical advantage. Because that's what you wrote. Why would you write it if you didn't think it?

that's why. now kindly fuck off, and stop wasting my time with your pedantic bullshit.

I agree, and hope no one ever has to be in a position where they have to interpret your written english, or rely on you thinking and expressing your thoughts.

You see, if he wrote that blacks on average have more curly hair and higher testosterone and you asked him how curly hair gives you any physical advantage in boxing and why he would even mention curly hair, you'd be a hair-splitting nitpicker who should fuck off and stop wasting his time.

I'm sold.

How do you explain Klitschko btw? An articulate white guy on the top of boxing most prestigious weight class with one of the longest reigns? Outliers arent slaves to the average but I know you aren't familiar with statistics.
See source of my claim
http://esreality.com/post/2881862/whole-foods-plant-based-diet/
Btw of course back guys have athletic advantages xd

1) all staged. artificial hype. hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. tickets, bets, pay-per-view, merch, sponsor products, etc. would be staged even for MUCH LESS $$. 2) can't be black vs. white if genuinely aiming for a remotely fair fight. blacks on average have lower IQ and higher testosterone, thus carry an inherent physical advantage. (no I'm not racist, shut your fucking mouth, it's a cold hard statistical fact.)

Of course it was much artificial hype, what did you expect, honest assessments, realism, self-doubt? They wanted to sell the fight, but in this case both know very well how to instill drama, how to include the media and internet, all those tricks to get more attention and reach more potential buyers.

But the confidence was not staged. That's another thing, these fighter absolutely have to believe they are far superior to the competition. You do not get to the top with self-doubt, fear, realistic view on things.

You get to the top believing you are the best (or could be) and train 10 times harder then you think anyone else does. That is my perspective, anyways.


The black vs. white was a non-argument. Statistics will do no good when judging two individuals.

He is nutrient deficient though, poor thing probably doesn't know what he's saying half the time.

Some inspirational music :D

OK so you agree with me that it was artificial hype and all about profits. Other than that you mention confidence which I didn't talk about. Appreciate your opinion on that but I'm not sure what your overall point of your comment is and why you're replying to me?
It seems that some ppl are still under the illusion that they're fighting for real, so I felt like pointing out that the outcome is settled way before the actual fight takes place, and it would be delusional to think otherwise, with literally hundreds of millions of dollars involved.

The black vs. white was a non-argument. Statistics will do no good when judging two individuals.

I wasn't judging either of them, and it wasn't meant to be an argument as I wasn't arguing anybody or anything, I was simply stating a fact. That IF you were to aim for a fight that's as fair as possible, black vs. white wouldn't make sense. It should be obvious but apparently it isn't. Much like how it wouldn't make sense to have a female athlete compete against a male, since females have roughly 10% less hemoglobin, resulting in a lower performance, so an inherent disadvantage. I guess that's more obvious to most people, since they are used to the two genders being separated in sports.

all staged - But the confidence was not staged

Both genuinely believed they would win, that part wasn't staged.

Also I do not think in the slightest the fight was a setup. a mismatch yes, but they fought for real...

see again you give that nonsense argument of black vs. white and that's why I commented on it being only a statistic. the deviation from the mean is enough to completely negate heritage. the best fighters will always be those with strong muscles = good fighting genetics.

you cannot deny mcgregor has an amazing fighting physique, unusual long reach, good speed and power, lots of testosterone (just look at his giant chin ffs).

Also I do not think in the slightest the fight was a setup. a mismatch yes, but they fought for real...

LOL. you think it isn't staged with that insane amount of money involved? it's just a show, business, illusion. I'm sorry, I don't mean to laugh at you. but yea you're naive. but hey if you want to believe that, so be it.

how is it non-sense? it's cold hard data. blacks having slightly higher physical prowess is common knowledge, it's just backed up by statistics also.

ugh, strong muscles? no offense but that's like a third-grader trying to explain something. what a meaningless, loose term. there are a million factors to being the 'best fighter'. what does that even mean? which sport, which rules and restrictions? boxing for instance, 'strong muscles' would be low priority, as endurance and movement are key.

you cannot deny mcgregor has an amazing fighting physique, unusual long reach, good speed and power, lots of testosterone (just look at his giant chin ffs).

again, I wasn't even mentioning either of them, it doesn't concern me, so not sure why you bring this up. and of course they are all on anabolics at this level.

LOL. you think it isn't staged with that insane amount of money involved? it's just a show, business, illusion. I'm sorry, I don't mean to laugh at you. but yea you're naive. but hey if you want to believe that, so be it.

calling someone naive for thinking it wasn't staged is so patronizing and completely wrong.

look at other big fights like paq v mayweather, a rematch would have generated massive amounts of cash yet paq fought badly, it was a boring fight and there was no mass appeal for a second fight.

why wasn't this staged?

the mcgregor mayweather fight had big incentives on both sides for victory and imo the only 'staged' aspect was the concious decision for mayweather to pad the fight out to give fans some entertainment whereas mcgregor was genuinely attempting to knock him out in the first 3 rounds.

mayweather vs WinD
make it happen!

Who do you think taught Mayweather everything he knows? If you watch in slow mo at the end of Mayweathers matches you can clearly see him uttering "wind0wned" to himself.

Staged lol xd xd
Ahahaha. You don't know shit about fighting, don't know shit about figthers, their mentality. There is 0 incentive for either of them to lose. That's just fucking logic here. Or maybe mayweather could lose for 300 million then ask for a rematch for 500 million ..aand that didn't happen. Hello, common sense? You just go by the soundwaves of conspiracy theories, just like other half educated simpletons who without engineer degrees insisted that skyscrapers cant fall down to planes xd I bet you are a 9 11 truther as well. Retard :) :*

For the last time, I am saying the statistic does not mean a thing once you look at two fighters. why did you mention the statistic, did you not want to apply it to this fight also?

you got me with 'strong muscles', it is a meaningless term, I mean more testosterone means more general physical ability, be it power, endurance etc.

there are a plenty non-black fighters defying the statistic, with unusual higt punching power, endurance etc. look at active fightrers golovkin, lomachenko for example

no, you're talking about outliers again, essentially saying that we can pit the best white fighters against mediocre or above average blacks, and they will do well. but that is exactly my point. pit them against the best black fighters and the disadvantage will likely to more observable. it doesn't matter how high their 'punching power' or endurance is, or even if they win or lose, the only thing that matters here is that they will be at a racial disadvantage, regardless of everything else.

one last example so you might understand: let's say I train a fighting sport for a year to reach a certain level, and I fight a black guy, who has no experience, training whatsoever, nothing. I'll most likely kick his ass. Then he wants revenge, and trains up to a similar level that I'm at, so now we're more or less at an equal level of training. Now, that doesn't mean he's going to win, but statistically speaking it will be more likely yes. It just means that he's always gonna be at a racial advantage. Because that's what the data shows.

anyway I tire of this convo and repeating myself so yea. :)

racist

neither can fight

But what is fighting though? - I mean really.

You're the one arguing with everyone and playing Quake lots of hours a week. Just ask yourself what it is.

4 hours is lots of hours?

The best journalist (IMO) in MMA gives his conclusions on the fight, I think he's absolutely right:

summary? it's an hour long.

McGregor blew away most people's expectations, won at least 3 rounds decisively, possibly won more, outlanded boxing legends percentage and absolute number wise, developed a good jab which he previously didn't have. His awkwardness allowed him to do things which his skill wouldn't have, as Schaub predicted.

Unfortunately for him, Mayweather was is a genius, he was able to make tactical adjustments as well as weather McGregor's storm and start taking risks and TKO McGregor in the later rounds (as McGregor said, "I turned him into a mexican". This and his pacing, as well as great defense and composure (doing more with less energy) allowed him to win this fight. Obviously this win isn't the best in his career, but the moves themselves which he made were very impressive, in particular the adjustment in the end and the risktaking which he previously wouldn't have done, it was a good finish for his career. It was an exciting and interesting fight.

This is good for Mayweather, and even better for McGregor. Thomas' argues that it's pretty much impossible to look at this showing and see it as a negative for McGregor, he lost but he outdid anything anyone could have expected of him. McGregor is amazing for having the balls to do it, for adapting to it the way he did and pulling this much of a fight as he did.

He also flames the ref for being out of position and hopes Paulie doesn't get McGregor to do another boxing match, as we need him in MMA.

summary? it's 4 paragraphs long.

tl;dr if you can't read I hope you can fight

I preferred the fight before with the guy from costa rica.

From where I was sitting, Mayweather just took his time because he had no idea what his opponent was capable of, in that time McGregor was winning a few rounds, but he wasn't fighting the real flloyd, he was fighting the floyd who was doing enough to feel him out and not commit himself to getting knocked out against someone he had no boxing data on, around the 6th round onwards it was game over. connor was delusional at the end, saying the ref should have left it go on. I assure you, if that fight went on for 3 more minutes connor would be in the hospital right about now. The ref did him a favor.

Who cares, nobody would expect someone to beat a professional boxer at their profession, especially one of the best of all time.

They both made a shit ton of money and the fans got what the wanted.
No harm done.

oh plenty of clueless people believed mcgregor word for word, imagined him to have superhuman magical fighting powers, it was just so ridiculous beforehand.

I would love to see how much money people blew on bets for mcgregor, there were a lot i imagine

if you have ever done anything wit a passion and full commitment you know for sure there are people who put in 10 times the work, and you simply cannot beat them. so to believe mcgregor had some kind of chance, was to believe in miracles or some shit.

I don't know, there are many many stupid people out there, or maybe they looked for an idol like a deity to praise and follow his words blindly or some ridiculous delusion

"I would love to see how much money people blew on bets for mcgregor, there were a lot i imagine"

I nearly got sucked in myself.

The odds were like 33 or even 50/1, for that I can imagine a few people thought he would get lucky.

I was going to do £100 on it, but came to my senses and events are never the same as when you have money on them, even a small stake, I think its takes away from the enjoyment because it becomes about something else.

Odds were great to the point it was ridiculous and thought about it myself. But it's literally throwing money away and the odds were that way for a reason. Vegas isn't in the business of losing money.

I'd have a better chance of being struck by lightning and winning the lottery.... In the same day.

Don't know what you guys are talking about ... the odds were like 3-1 or 4-1 to bet on McGregor in the week leading up to the fight. I bet everything I could on Floyd at 1-5 or so.

Early on Conor was over +2000 on a KO bet. If I recall correctly I saw +2200. Odds came down leading into the fight due to the suckers betting on Conor.

I'm sure Vegas cleaned house on this one.

/care

Mayweather will go down in history as the best boxer of our generation, he can't be hit, he's insanely quick and doesn't lose to anyone, doesn't duck anyone either.

Love him or hate him he is the best.

People really lack an understanding about boxing. That bout wasn't remotely close. Conor's punches had no sting on them. They were arm punches, which was reflected on the judge scorecards. Impact/damage matters. Floyd's 1 solid shot to the body was worth more than 10 of Conor's slaps. Floyd was smiling/laughing as he was walking Conor down. No respect for his "power."

The gameplan was obvious before the opening bell was sound, and anybody with sense knew Conor was going to be completely out of gas by the mid rounds. Then it was going to get really ugly in there, and it did. Floyd carried him and made it entertaining. Literally could do whatever he wanted with him in there. I never want to hear about MMA fighters having superior stamina to boxers ever again. Conor was on fumes by the 5th round.

A lot of rabbit punches, hammer fists, and arm punches. His jab had nothing on it. Conor is not a boxer.

You saw a 40 year old boxer, 2 years on retirement, walk down a guy who was 29 years old with a 20-25 pound weight advantage like he stole something. Broke his body down, then knocked him out. The referee did the right thing, because Conor was about to take career altering damage in there. People wanting him to go down should Google "brain bleed boxing" and think again. The man was finished and I'm glad Byrd stopped the bout. No one wants to see Conor get permanently damaged.

By the way, Conor is medically suspended for 2 months after his beating. Keep this guy out of the boxing ring. If he fights an actual young/active champion, he gets seriously hurt.

what do you think of floyd constantly turning his back?

Conor was grabbing him and turning him to get to his back. He's a wrestler, not a boxer. Not to mention he's a southpaw, which makes his awkwardness worse. i.e - Ducks down to the right to dodge punch, opponent steps left all the way behind while using forward punching hand to hold opponent briefly... That's going to get reset my man. Punches to the back of the head and back of the torso are illegal blows.

It was naturally going to be sloppy at parts of the bout given his inexperience and natural tendencies. This is also why the referee was so lenient with his constant rabbit punches and hammer fists. (illegal punches)

An experienced boxer would have known how to use proper footwork to try and establish the range necessary to land hard punches from a legal angle, not the back of his opponent. It's a footwork issue my friend.

You can't pick up boxing in weeks and expect to master it. That's why Conor had absolutely no power fighting off his back foot as well. Lacked the experience to set his feet properly, get those hips turned, and throw a proper punch while moving backward. Not easy to do and surely not something you'll pick up without years of practice.

He's a wrestler, not a boxer.

He is? How so?

He's not more a boxer than weekend warriors who spar every weekend at the local gym. I'll put it that way. There are journeymen boxers with day jobs that take Conor out in that ring. Easy.

His instincts are that of a grappler/wrestler, which means getting to your opponent's back is important. That's not the case in boxing. Conor even admitted as much after the fight in regard to his natural instincts to take the back, not realizing it's an illegal position in boxing. (Can't throw to back of head or torso, illegal punches)

His punches were arm punches, rabbit punches, and hammer fists. That's not a boxer my friend, that's amateur hour. There are literally kids in middle school throwing harder punches than he was throwing in that fight. Turning your hips, transferring weight, etc... very important.

Punching hard is technique, not weight lifting. Which is why you'll see guys who look like body builders who can't crack an egg, and a guy skinny as a rail can knock somebody cold with 1 punch.

His instincts are that of a grappler/wrestler, which means getting to your opponent's back is important.

They are? How many of his fights have you watched?

If you want to argue just to argue, go right ahead. Because that's what you're doing. Or you could actually listen to what Conor said after the fight about it.... But I'm sure Conor doesn't know as much about how he thinks in his fights more than you do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGzGZR1YuP0&t -- Start at about 2:20 and listen to what he says about using energy to get to a position that has NO BEARING in a boxing match. It's essentially the same exact thing I was saying about it.

"Composure... He's just better at when to throw shots, and when not to throw shots." Yes Conor, that's called "boxing."

The man can't box. If he could, he'd be a boxer and make way more money than he does in MMA. Reality. His popularity and mouth got him this payday, not his boxing skills. (and the ignorance of MMA fans thinking he actually had a chance) I'll say it again: journeymen boxers who have day jobs would beat him in a boxing ring. He's not even mid-tier, as a "boxer." The fact he admits he wasn't ready for Floyd to come in like that just showcases his lack of experience. He actually believed Floyd was going to dance around at 40 years old... Floyd doesn't have the legs for that any more. He's 40.... Which is why Mayweather was much more flat footed in his last fights. All that talk about Floyd "doing it for the fans" is a bit of BS. His legs are going. Floyd is literally a shadow of the boxer he once was.

It was "sports entertainment." It was not an actual competitive match, never was, and never would be. Those who paid for it thinking it could be competitive, probably feel robbed. Those who watched it purely to watch Floyd walk Conor down and stop him for entertainment, are satisfied. I had zero doubt the match was going to get stopped for Conor's health. Literally I said: "Conor will be out of gas by the 6th, and then it's going to get ugly. Sane minds will prevail, and either the referee stops it or the corner throws the towel."

I like Conor, heck of an athlete, great trash talk to build hype, but he's just not a boxer. I will say this though: Conor could use this experience with Floyd if he's smart to be even better in MMA in regard to striking. Watch the tape Conor, watch the tape. In MMA, Conor is a top tier striker, so any increase in his ability will help him. But straight boxing? No. He's not even a mediocre striker in boxing.

I'm not "arguing to argue", I just can't really make sense of SOME of the things you say. I'd agree with most of it, so no need to project onto me some rabid MMA fan's who thinks McGregor is the favourite views. The reason I was going with specific points is because I don't think that people with different views will get to much of anything if they talk in paragraphs about many things to one another, there's a billion premises involved at that point and nobody is going to catch them all.

To state some of the specific claims I disagree with, I don't think McGregor is a wrestler, he is quite famously a striker kind of an MMA fighter who was suspected to be weak against wrestlers. Brown belt in BJJ. These and other things make me wonder how much you've watched of McGregor fighting. You know very high level strikers do come into MMA right, and he pulls off shit that many of them can't do? Generally it becomes different in MMA, sure, but many of the actions are literally the same.

I don't think Mayweather could have done what he wanted in there, not from the start. He didn't want McGregor landing more shots than anyone else, that's for sure. He would have liked to avoid nearly everything in the early rounds and counterstrike McGregor much more effectively and evidently. Hell, a second round finish would have been nice for him, but he didn't feel safe enough to do that. He also would have liked not to get caught with things like that uppercut, which is why he adjusted his style over the fight. I just don't see any reason to think he was toying with him longer than needed to as you suspect, even he himself said he expected poorer skills from McGregor and an earlier finish.

I think you added a bunch of flair to your points at several times, making them quite exaggerated. Seems like you're coming with your conclusions already made, and don't look for alternative explanations for things when many times they're there. But I'm not sure it's worth going over them. I just think it's more of a rant than a series of careful points, and your confidence is a bit over the top with it.

I think the gameplan wasn't clear from before the bell rang, given that boxing analysts weren't all unanimously predicting it. In fact, many things MMA analysts predicted better. Not really surprising considering that many of boxing analysts reveal not having watched any MMA. But then maybe you shouldn't be as confident than Max "I don't watch MMA and no punches will be landed" Kellerman, or the 0% chance memers.

The man can't box. If he could, he'd be a boxer and make way more money than he does in MMA. Reality.

I'm not sure there is more money in boxing, really. The pay is really different up top and elsewhere, and there's no clear way to get fights if people don't want them, nor the kind of upwards growth that MMA has. I'll be curious to see if boxing can get out of this current slump, the fights are great but the PPV numbers really aren't, amazing boxers aren't selling half as much as a shitty UFC PPV.


All in all, I think this becomes a more complicated argument than can be resolved, which is why I wanted to go for specific things and make simple points. I'm a big fan of your work in Quake BTW, I'm envious of the casting the NA streams had. Figured I'd throw this out there, to show I'm not trying to be a dick for no reason here, I'm just interested in the topic :)

I will refer to any MMA fighter as a "wrestler/grappler." It has nothing to do with the fact they don't train multiple disciplines, it has to do with the fact that they are indeed "mediocre strikers" and as such, their "skill" really comes into play when they get on the ground.

None of these guys could hold a candle to a boxer standing up. It honestly makes me cringe watching MMA guys stand up and box. It's bad, sloppy, and the fact people think they are "good" is probably the worst thing about it.

You can count on one hand the amount of meaningful shots Conor landed in that bout. Compubox has been known to be full of shit by boxing fans for years. It's literally just some guy with a clicker in a room watching the same fight you are. There is nothing "Compu" about it. 111, with 100 of them being slaps, rabbit punches, and hammer fists. You get the point when I say that.

It's an illusion. People who think Conor did "well" don't understand boxing at all. It was a serious ass kicking from start to finish and anybody experienced in boxing knew exactly what Floyd was doing to Conor from the opening bell. Telling you man, I've sparred. I've got in there, and when a guy is more experienced than you it's so obvious. They literally let you get your work in, tire you out, start raking you with body shots, and that's a wrap. You're done.

I will refer to any MMA fighter as a "wrestler/grappler." It has nothing to do with the fact they don't train multiple disciplines, it has to do with the fact that they are indeed "mediocre strikers" and as such, their "skill" really comes into play when they get on the ground.

I don't get it; don't you realize this kind of thinking would lead you to call them strikers if you had a grappling background?

None of these guys could hold a candle to a boxer standing up. It honestly makes me cringe watching MMA guys stand up and box. It's bad, sloppy, and the fact people think they are "good" is probably the worst thing about it.

In a kickboxing match, yes they would! In fact, some of them have lots of achievements in kickboxing. Boxers generally (that I know of) can't say the same.

Ray Mercer knocked out Sylvia in seconds in the cage. Mercer was 48.

That's what happens when an MMA guy tries to strike with an actual guy who is good at it. Sorry man, but I like MMA and boxing but MMA guys don't hold a candle to boxers in regard to striking ability.

They're good enough at it for their profession. That's it.

Ray Mercer knocked out Sylvia in seconds.

This is from the dark ages in MMA time! How do you think Stephen Thompson or Overeem (let's say before his chin became complete glass) would do versus boxers in kickboxing matches?

And Holly Holm beating the snot out of Rousey? I thought Rousey was capable of being a world champion boxer? (According to her trainer and fans)

That was literally a retired boxer who moved to MMA. Spent a couple years learning the ground game, and that was a wrap. You don't pick up boxing in a couple years and go compete with champions.

It's like this to me:

Boxers = Masters of their craft - Punches
MMA = Versatile... but because of that impossible to master striking. Too much time spent among different disciplines.

And Holly Holm beating the snot out of Rousey? I thought Rousey was capable of being a world champion boxer? (According to her trainer and fans)

But that coach has been the laughing stock of MMA for years! If you followed MMA you'd know! Every popular fighter has some idiot fans, that's nobody's fault. There are many strikers in MMA and in general many many fans who were pointing out her striking flaws forever.

That was literally a retired boxer who moved to MMA. Spent a couple years learning the ground game, and that was a wrap. You don't pick up boxing in a couple years and go compete with champions.

Being retired doesn't always mean the same thing, she also has extensive kickboxing experience. Once again, really disingenuous to compare a top level boxer and kickboxer at age 33 or coming into MMA to someone picking up boxing from scratch.


You're not really responding to much of what I say, I'm not sure this will get anywhere. Can you answer my last question, how do you think boxers would do vs Stephen Thompson in a kickboxing match?

My answer is they better stick to kicking. If they met a championship level boxer, their punches are not going to be effective. If they try to "box" they get KO'd. They wouldn't make it in pro boxing at all.

Yes, Holm had a background but she'd been a "pro boxer" for years. Why didn't Rousey just take her to the ground? She'd obviously been doing it longer? Where is that MMA ground and pound game? The problem is, she and other people around her actually believed the hype about MMA striking. And let's be clear about Holm's "kickboxing background" it's amateur only, and it's not extensive.

I just don't see the skill in MMA beyond the grappling, bjj, judo, etc aspects of it. When it comes to the ground game, yea, no argument at all. That's why Randy did the smart thing with James Toney... Don't even try to have that discussion, grab the ankle and call it a day. If Randy even thinks about throwing a punch that bout, he gets KO'd in seconds.

They are completely different sports.

My answer is they better stick to kicking. If they met a championship level boxer, their punches are not going to be effective. If they try to "box" they get KO'd. They wouldn't make it in pro boxing at all.

Well, a boxer's punches wouldn't really be effective in kickboxing either, due to the differences. Of course they couldn't make it in boxing, but then boxers wouldn't make it in kickboxing, not without years adjusting, which is my point. There are top level kickboxers in MMA. So yes, there are very good strikers in MMA. They're not necessarily the best in MMA striking, again, due to the differences, but they're pretty great once they adapt.

Yes, Holm had a background but she'd been a "pro boxer" for years. Why didn't Rousey just take her to the ground? She'd obviously been doing it longer? Where is that MMA ground and pound game? The problem is, she and other people around her actually believed the hype about MMA striking.

Womens MMA is a bit of a joke; Rousey vs a striker is a asymetrical matchup that can be really extreme in the result either way; everyone including Holm has been practicing for Rousey, so she prepared for the specific things Rousey does rather than general takedown defense. She was pretty great at it. Rousey never had any ground and pound game, and where it would be if she can't get her to the ground. And yep, the hype was ridiculous and Edmund has been a meme forever, he managed to ruin another great MMA fighter who was a huge prospect in heavyweight.

I just don't see the skill in MMA beyond the grappling, bjj, judo, etc aspects of it. When it comes to the ground game, yea, no argument at all. That's why Randy did the smart thing with James Toney... Don't even try to have that discussion, grab the ankle and call it a day. If Randy even thinks about throwing a punch that bout, he gets KO'd in seconds.

Well, the thing is, the requirements are increasing very rapidly, this is age old stuff. Soon the 20yos will come who have been practicing 3-4 disciplines since ages four to ten. And the things they will do in MMA will be things that, say, boxers couldn't do in MMA, due to having practiced punching forever, BUT in the MMA range, vs MMA techniques, like people that shoot takedowns. They won't be as good as boxers at boxing, obviously, but they'll be pretty fucking good. And sometimes, some people will come that are as good as the boxers or kickboxers. Like we have top level kickboxers in MMA - they are exquisite strikers. That may soon be not enough for MMA, though.

Knowing that this has already started, not seeing the skill in MMA striking makes you out to be rather ignorant! And nobody is, once again, saying that they'll be better than boxers at boxing. That's silly.

"Knowing that this has already started, not seeing the skill in MMA striking makes you out to be rather ignorant! And nobody is, once again, saying that they'll be better than boxers at boxing. That's silly."

I see the skill, it's mediocre when compared to top boxers. It's not entertaining to me, because it's majorly flawed in regard to "boxing." I do not find MMA fighters standing up and boxing to be aesthetically pleasing to the eye at all. It reminds me of those old toughman competitions.

The ground game is where these guys excel. The thing that attracts me to UFC/MMA is the fact it resembles more of a street fight and can be a bit barbaric. It just doesn't do it for me when they're standing up striking. If I want to watch that, I'll watch boxers.

Boxing to me is wine.
MMA is beer.

You got to understand, I've watched boxing over 30 years. I have very high standards when it comes to boxing. MMA stand up game will never impress me.

I can see the point of that, the UFC obviously has ways to go in terms of striking, and they are marching forwards quite quickly. I do wonder though, do you enjoy amateur boxers sometimes, or pro kickboxers? MMA has some pretty good amateur boxers coming in, and as I said, the future generations are going to be amazing. So I wonder if that is too low level for you, or if once adapted for MMA it just looks less perfect and fluid.

To give a hint, this guy has a lot of hype around him, he's the kind of person who was at a great level for several disciplines before entering MMA. It's worth noting that he lost his first bout to a part-timer though, perhaps due to experience and arrogance, or perhaps due to the fact that MMA has so many things going on, that looking as perfect in MMA as you do in specific disciplines is incredibly difficult. Still a bright future ahead of him.

MMA fans watch boxing and kickboxing to see the striking of the future in MMA, as well as wrestling and submission grappling to see future grappling in MMA. Luckily though, it's catching up quicker and quicker, even though it will never be final.

I'll follow a highly touted amateur once they get into the Olympics. Although amateur boxing has a lot of problems due to the scoring system. I'm glad they're going back to no head gear though, long overdue.

Overall, I'll wait for these kids to make it pro. It's just such a different game compared to the amateur ranks. Once they start their professional matches, it's much easier to get an idea of how successful their future will or will not be.

I see, fair enough. Nice chatting with you.

Same to you. Love having discussion about combat sports, they're honestly my favorite.

Who you got? Canelo or GGG? :)

I don't know yet, I've watched way more of Canelo so likely will be pulling for him. Generally though I don't stray much from the experts and always try to keep myself in check by reading them enough relative to how much other sports content I consume. What do they say, or why do you favor Canelo?

It's a toss up match to many. That's what makes it so interesting.

The reason I'm leaning Canelo, is I feel his footwork is a bit better and he'll put himself in better position by controlling range. I think GGG's footwork is a bit over-rated, and his fight with Joshua showed he wasn't this indestructible KO machine, he can be boxed.

But again, this is more of a lean. I need to really examine some of their footwork from their most recent bouts. Overall though, I feel Canelo is under-rated as a pugilist, probably due to the fact "Mexicans" aren't typically regarded as "slick boxers." He makes up for the fact he doesn't have great foot speed by being efficient with his feet... I just think his footwork is a bit overlooked by many.

My "gut" tells me GGG gets caught, as Canelo is an excellent counter puncher. I have no doubt GGG will be in stalk and destroy mode as that is pretty much his MO. I'd have to look for examples of GGG fighting off the back foot, but I'm pretty confident that's not his style. If Canelo is able to have GGG backing up, I have a feeling it'll be a long night for him.

In the end though, I always lean back on range and footwork. Many people get caught up with the upper body with boxing, but the legs are the major factor with dictating success. Who can control range will win typically. I don't get caught up in punching power, speed, etc. as none of that matters unless you're in range to punch.

I'll be looking to see that in the fight ^_^

And I don't think you're being a dick, lol. Thank you for the kind words regarding the casting.

I'm passionate about combat sports. I've watched boxing since I was like 4-5 years old. This is an interesting topic of discussion and everybody has their own views.

Boxing is pretty great. Do you know a place where I can see fight schedules without being spoiled by the results, BTW? I'm one fight per month or so kind of a viewer, and sometimes I realize I might have missed a fight but want to see the schedules without spoilers. Is that a thing?

ESPN obviously has schedules months in advance. The thing I would say most though if you're not watching a ton of boxing is find some favorite boxers and follow just them. At least then you're familiar with "your guy" and don't waste time on matches that may not interest you, or could be boring due to bad style match ups.

If you want a suggestion, I highly recommend the Canelo vs GGG (Gennady Golovkin) match coming up. That is the "real" boxing match that is anticipated. Highly competitive, and I have a feeling no matter who wins, somebody is getting knocked out. (I'm slightly leaning on Canelo at the moment, but I need to look at some film study to be completely confident)

If you want to see utter destruction, take a look at some of GGG's recent boxing matches. Joshua did make it the distance recently, but everybody else got annihilated in brutal fashion.

I'll look ESPN schedules up. I'm following Lomachenko, the way he fights is pretty awesome.

I'm well aware of Canelo vs GGG, watched several Canelo's fights too. This one is going to be fireworks, hype!

"I'm following Lomachenko, the way he fights is pretty awesome."

Total stud that guy.

And, since we're on the topic of MMA/Boxing etc... you may enjoy this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTO6abQFs14

Enjoy! :)

Andre Ward is also fantastic boxer. Tough bouts with Kovalev. I honestly felt he got a bit of a gift in the first bout with the decision, but he cleared up all doubts in the rematch.

Also a brilliant boxing mind, I keep hearing. I'll watch the vid once I have a bit of extra time.

"I think the gameplan wasn't clear from before the bell rang, given that boxing analysts weren't all unanimously predicting it. In fact, many things MMA analysts predicted better. Not really surprising considering that many of boxing analysts reveal not having watched any MMA. But then maybe you shouldn't be as confident than Max "I don't watch MMA and no punches will be landed" Kellerman, or the 0% chance memers."

Max was clear about it meaning "no meaningful punches." And he was right. Floyd didn't have a mark on him afterward and clearly didn't respect Conor's punching power. And yes, there was 0% chance for Conor to win that bout.

I was saying it to everybody, Conor will come out, shoot his load in the first 3 rounds and that's that. Out of gas by 6, then he'll need saving after. This thinking was very common place among boxing junkies.

Floyd flat out said his gameplan leading into the fight: Walk him down, take him to deep water (later rounds), and knock him out. So yea, the gameplan was clear from round 1 opening bell. I was honestly laughing because I knew exactly what he was doing. MMA fanatics probably were going nuts thinking Conor was in it, which is also hilarious to me.

Max was clear about it meaning "no meaningful punches." And he was right.

There were meaningful punches - that uppercut was pretty great, some others were good, and if they weren't meaningful Floyd wouldn't have had to change up his style.

And yes, there was 0% chance for Conor to win that bout.

He landed some shots. He could have landed heavier ones. He didn't have the energy to throw that hard due to not being able to hit Floyd, understandable, and due to the volume. Of course. But a lucky punch could have happened, if he had decided to put everything into that uppercut and landed it a tiny bit cleaner...

It's impossible to come up with 0 percent considering that.

I was saying it to everybody, Conor will come out, shoot his load in the first 3 rounds and that's that. Out of gas by 6, then he'll need saving after. This thinking was very common place among boxing junkies.

The gameplan could have been walking down minute one, it wasn't. It could have been counterpunch McGregor since round 1, wasn't. Could have been counterpunch after two rounds. There was a variety of opinions!

That uppercut didn't even back Floyd up, stun him, nothing. Yes, it's probably one of Conor's best punches landed in the entire bout. But that's far few and in between. He literally had zero respect from Floyd. If Conor was landing any meaningful shots, Floyd would think twice. You'll never see Floyd marching straight ahead like that on guys... it was because Conor was no threat.

I don't believe in "lucky punches" when it comes to boxing. A "puncher's chance" in boxing, especially when fighting a Mayweather-type fighter, is the equivalent of no chance. It's not going to happen. Not to mention Mayweather isn't exactly known for a glass jaw. It'd be one thing if Floyd was known for going down on hard punches, but the man had never even been knocked down, let alone out. If you're telling me the only way a guy is to win, is by knocking out a defensive boxer who has never been knocked down before... I'd say his chance is zero.

Yes, the fight was 100% guaranteed to end the way it did. No way Conor was making it 12. If Floyd was 30, or the referee lets that bout continue, Conor is in the hospital. They really need to keep that man away from actual active/young champions. I don't care how much money they promise him.

Yes, there were a variety of opinions. I'm telling you my opinion leading into the fight is exactly what ended up happening in the fight. I don't care about TV personalities.

I believe there was some respect from Floyd, given that he didn't march him down from round one, given that he changed up his style after getting hit. So I think he did think twice.

I also believe puncher's chances are real, especially when you see a person being hit. It's entirely possible for mcgregor to put more into the punch, so I couldn't muster up a 0% with that. Hell, especially when he landed this much and didn't get disqualified!

I also don't think a boxing fight vs a young champion is much worse than a lost MMA fight, which he has seen and possibly will see again. But sure, he would get beat badly by current boxing champions, nobody contests that.

Yes, there were a variety of opinions. I'm telling you my opinion leading into the fight is exactly what ended up happening in the fight. I don't care about TV personalities.

Fair enough. I think we get eachothers point's about this, so I figure it's enough on these specific points.

my guess is he tried to pull off this since he was trying to do some other loma shit as well. Difference is that lomachenko has been a boxer since he was five and won two olympics rather than an irish junior tournament.

Some good analysis there and you sound like you have the knowledge to back it up. I don't think you've given Conor fair credit though considering it was his first professional boxing match against undeniably the best.

P.S. Have you considered fighting zoot in a boxing match after he left you hanging? The PPV can be on ESR. We have some Polish guy called fizzle who can make you a belt or something as a trophy.

Don't get me wrong, Conor clearly has fighting skills and he is tough as nails. But let's call it for what it was: Sloppy and ineffective punching from Conor.

If people want to hold on to the 111 number of Compubox, fine, but they were clearly counting rabbit punches and hammer fists. In regard to "clean work" where is it from Conor?

Conor is tough, sure. But keep that man far away from boxing. If he fights a young/active champion he gets seriously damaged. There are enough guys coming out of bouts with brain damage, in comas, and dying in boxing as is. I don't want this guy believing the hype from media/fans and trying to get another payday, say against a guy like Canelo. I'm not interested in seeing murder.

For MMA guys who don't know, there are four scoring criteria for rounds in boxing and it explains the judge cards:

CLEAN punching
EFFECTIVE aggression
DEFENSE
Ring GENERALSHIP.

I put in caps words that people tend to forget when scoring boxing bouts. Floyd was in complete command.


And LOL - zoot and I were having a lot of fun with the whole NA/EU rivalry. In the end, it was me buying drinks. I knew that'd be the case but I was having fun and making the matches interesting with some friendly bets. :)

me reading through this thread

I dont understand this hype about mayweather,
when I watch boxing, I only watch heavy weight,
place mayweather in a fight against klitschko and joshua and we all know what would happen ... TKO in round 1 ... there is a reason we dont watch halflings run the 100 m among themselves, same reason I dont watch bantam weight versions of boxers, I only wanna see the absolute best at something ...

and "the absolute best", the ones you call that at least, are beyond terrible at technique compared to the ones you diss.

is bolts technique superior to the other runners?
does brazil always win the football world cup with their superior technique?

You said you don't understand the hype about mayweather, and then say you only want to watch the absolute best at something. Why is that? Wouldn't seeing the amazing, intricate techniques they can pull off be a critical part of that?

this is so illogical that you might as well say "I don't respect the skill of heavyweight boxers because I know that anyone with a gun in the ring could just beat them by firing one shot"

ur analogy doesnt really work m8. It would be a fair fight again if both would have allowed to have pistols, not if one has the material advantage ...

it works in the sense that the physical advantage a heavyweight has vs a straw weight fighter is so gigantic that they have zero chance therefore 'skill' can't objectively be deduced from the bout.

having a gun vs heavyweight is for all intents equally unfair and induces no display of skill.

the nature of sports is that differences in human qualities are allowed and material differences have to be as minimal as possible ... you could also implement the same rules in basketball making different height groups if you wanted to if you want to keep human qualities as equal as possible ... but noone does, why?

you're really needlessly abstracting things, everyone in basketball is tall and those who aren't have their own advantages as a result whereas with boxing is a dangerous sport and plainly retarded to not have weight brackets not just to assist in competitiveness but to prevent serious injuries.

so many MCTAPOUT fans triggered lul lul lul lul