Makes sense.

Invisible DMG lines between 2 points? :0

Nice coded, like schoolboys.

20 years of QL development, and now we starting from zero.

One step forward and 10 backward

lol

:))))))))))

Clawz...?

guess how he won qcon

why do so many people seem to think clawz didn't deserve his win? I watched the finals and I didn't see some all aim moron, I saw a player with high combat iq who consistently managed to use his resources really efficiently and besides that he could also back it up with great aim.

oh and I'm a Dutch CPM player so it wasn't like I was cheering for clawz

clawz is a great player, even before qc, in ql, so im not wanting to paint the kid as a bad or dirty player by any means. but no...he didnt play a tactical and intelligent game in quakecon...most of the times he literally just searched for moments to rush with lg. just look at the game with cooler, the decisive map , ruins of sarnath. he dies, spawns lg, total attack. that's just not good quake if u don't feel overly confident with the lg. and im not saying the abuse was intentional , but look how he was aiming (more reflex and raw mouse aim based than ever before in ql) , and how confident he was in it. maybe theres a reason it felt so easy for him , even if he didnt know why. aiming lg as shaky and efficiently as he did , was always a paradox in my eyes. the only top lg player that shakes like that, is heartless. and heartless uses truelightning 0.8 (last cfg I checked) , so he shakes the mouse, but the lg is kind of filtered to the middle.strenx tracks, evil tracks, tox tracks, cypher tracks, and so on. its a tracking weapon , not a spastic micro flick weapon. clawz is a great player and everytime I played clan arena with him , he was a top respectful and considerate person, but when it comes to his lg "crown" , I'm still not convinced. I hope he does the same in next tournaments and I honestly wish him the best. sure will be great to watch ,the game isn't much to my liking , but the scene is hot atm :)

I can somehow understand the first compilation a little bit as you keep relatively close to the target but even then it's fucked up. But the second and third clip? That is just DISGUSTING

This game is hopeless. I can't really see how anyone could think up a worse quake successor than this.

Spongerror O.o

quake cheatpions
plz bethesda stop acting like this with deadman named quake, make pubg-clone in space

plz bethesda stop acting like this with deadman named quake, make pubg-clone in space

this but unironically
like, for real: The issue with this whole project is that fundamentally, id software is pretending and marketing Quake Champions to be really hardcore competitive ESPURTS TEST-YOUR-SKILL WATCH-THESE-PROS action, but the impression you get from watching the game is that what they really really want to make and are actually making is a Overwatch-esque casual shooter.

So, is this a hack or is it some serious flawed code? Either way sad af.

more like some sort of aim assist for those casuals with no aiming skillz

Please tell me this ain't real life. Rofl

Saber Interactive: 'UHM Guise how to fix bad hitreg on LG?' Sync/Sponge: UHHHMMM netcode poverty af so maybe add low-k aim assist?? Saber Interactive: 'b..bu..but.. what abo..? Tim Willits: 'DO IT NOW COMMIES, else no rubles!! :-----@'

Saber Interactive: 'k ;-(((('

imho back even before beta, when they tested they realized their netcode and hitboxes way too fkd up to ever LG aim at them properly, so they threw in some "trick"

Bunch of lazy Jews.

2nd and 3rd clips - wow. I wonder if Clutch drill is the same.

It might finally get some use :D

If you can 360 noscope and get 100% lg in 1v1, what happens in an FFA game?

Inb4 everyone triples their sensitivity (or accel)

Haha. iDownie-Software.

Classic

Tim will jokingly mention it in his next AMA.

Is this the tournament version of the game?

gg

killsen abused it since ql days before it became mainstream!

this game just keeps delivering.

cooller shaft like this, not like the 2nd and 3rd, but almost..:D


but yes, is broken...

Lots of pros abuse of it, except tox (strenx?)

This kill on Latrommi by Tox looks like he knew at Quakecon too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oc3S1HzKmA&a...amp;t=2536

Killsen was talking about this on his stream after Quakecon. He said that Clawz was just shaking the cross-hair over the target, and that seemed to be the winning technique..

But those vids are fucked beyond belief. There is money on the line for a game that has such fundamental failings!!

yeah tbh I noticed clawz doing this but just presumed it was good tracking

"presumed it was good tracking" :D

I can sort of understand his point. The screen is often a cluster-fuck of 7's. It's hard tell wtf is going on.

wtf?

why don't we just all give up for the time being?

they might actually pull their fucking finger out if everyone stopped playing :s

I stopped after october patch... at first it was fine then, after a day it got random with desync, etc ... I challenge anyone to try crouch slide with that. I had to install OW now, which I hate due to slow ass "run" speed.

Fuck that OW, just come back to QL already.


#tdmpickup welcomes every aberrant soul who's set on finding the light again.

np, after the latest fix, QC works, ....mostly. You just have to restart it after 3 matches. :DDD

Yeah, only 2 tiny faults left;

-it just needs an engine now
-and it needs to be a Quake game on a fundamental level

Can't wait for the new patch. )

hah fundamental level... you are never gona get that, with any new q.

Yeah, that's why EVERYBODY who wants to play a Quake game should go back to QL / CPMA / QW.

:) ... no way, we are going with new quake. Yes people are all squiling like pigs about issues and shit, but you know what, fuck it, i still belive. Had some awesome matches today, I just need to remember, i have to restart after 3 games and the games is smooth - 95% of the time :))

Pff.

Lel this shit actually works.
Played some test games and my lg went from my stable shit 29ish% up to 37-39% , hahah what a fucking disgrace of a game.

In hindsight all these years of jerking off have finally paid off :D

tfw you actually have parkinsons

ROFL

Basicly that mean - Clawz is not that strong, he's just find that "bug" and abuse it during qcon.
In a week everybody will start doing this - resulting in an even more powerfull op-LG.

P.S. Fire these game-developers already.

Strong lg in ql too, maybe "bug" abuser but good aim anyway

the funny thing is that a lot of pros has used the same LG mechanics at Qcon, not only clawz, even more I barely remember clawz abusing this shit.

cmon clawz was one of the best lg aimers in quakelive as well, I dont think you can just say that he won quakecon doing this, that being said he might have figured the bug earlier than other people.

Hahaha gold! :)

What the absolute fuck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtnqwLlF1Co

how does one enforce that lol

I actually have a medical condition --> discrimination --> lawsuit :D

French people...

It's the early implementation of V.A.T.S. Next champion is going to be the Lone Wanderer or the Sole Survivor.

Looks like they are searching the entire mousemovement between each LG "shot" when trying to detect hits instead of checking where you are aiming at the exact time of the LG "shot". Seems like it is enough for the mouse to pass over the target in the period between shots, which makes me wonder if they are trying to hide terrible anti-lag by artificially increasing accuracy.

I've faced players doing the Parkinson's technique and the hit % is just unfair. You do hit more this way than by aiming. Allegedly it was fixed in the last big patch, but I don't think so.

Be honest here, did you qualify with help of this? :D

I faced a guy that did it. I didn't, but should have.

i can't watch this. it's going to make me paranoid and bitter.

Finally catching up to Jedi Academy?

It's just another feature.

will they fix it, or we have to learn it?

you have to learn it, and when they eventually fix it, you have to unlearn it.

shit

I'm not going to play the game until it's worthy. I can deal with the fact that it may never be worthy.

Whaaaaat?

+fw Sorlag + Acid + This SHIT = 100k

GG

Just watched a bit of the first map of the grand final, and clawz is definitely using this a couple of times:
https://youtu.be/1rVdeGj0gBk?t=1138 (1:20 round 1 map 1)
https://youtu.be/1rVdeGj0gBk?t=1352 (2:00 round 2 map 1)

Rewatching that, I can remember noticing it at the time. I don't think I presumed it was good tracking though.. More that I figured the visuals are just so cluttered and clunky that it might just have been idiotic rendering of some kind.

Funny thing is, clawz doesn't do it ALL the time, sometimes he's straight aiming like q3/ql:
https://youtu.be/1rVdeGj0gBk?t=1419 (2:58 round 2 map 1)
Other times he's kind of mixing them together:
https://youtu.be/1rVdeGj0gBk?t=1186 (2:04 round 1 map 1)

Because he didn't know the bug exist, he just sometimes aim parkinson style (also in q3/ql), but with greater accuracy than the abusers via the bug. :)

Yeah i seriously doubt he knew about the bug. That seems pretty much his normal style, and also if you see you're hitting a lot even while being a little all over the place, you don't ask yourself why, or lower your sensitivity, especially since with qc netcode nothing really makes sense.

I agree that he probably didn't know about the bug, cause if he did he wouldn't have boasted "I've got the best shaft on this LAN, I tell you m8, it's really good" to K1llsen, or zsx or whoever during the event.

just based on watching him in ql, I'd say he does have a legit claim to being the best aimer in quake anyway

are you serious? I didnt even know clawz before quakecon.

The discussions about ql best lg aim was between strenx, tox and z4muz's brother who hits harder than toxjq in q3. There wasnt a single guy who mentioned clawz.... guess why!

Clawz aim is atleast on par with tox and strenx. Possibly even better

But the real king is z4muz's brother, don't forget that.

if you didn't know about clawz before this qcon, you've been missing out

lg 37% and rail 63% is pretty good but nothing special when you compare it to other pro players. A single game means nothin anyway

Its like rapha's 90% rail game but rapha is still not an aimwhore.

Yes, one game means nothing but that's one of MANY games by clawz against top players where his aim is just stupid crazy. Plus, you can't judge aim solely by percentages. He was hitting hard shots in that Cure match vs agent and doing so in a frenetic way, without slowing down or being cautious. Not all percentages are created equal: a newb can hit 40% LG against bad opponents and/or play really safe/passive and only take easy shots.

Only players I can think of who play (or have played) that aggressive and still hit insane shots are Spartie, Evil, Cypher, Av3k, Toxjq, and Strenx from his Zotac domination days. That's a rarified group of players. Clawz belongs in that group. Even though he's not won a bunch of lans, his mechanical talent surely puts him in that class of players.

clawz has always had next level aim tbh, esp with railgun

Last year of ql, clawz was there with all u listed.

P.S. we all know tox little brother hits harder in q3 than tox and like bulat@q1

Tox and Z4muz are not brothers, are they?

No, but I was too lazy to edit thw post + who cares, we all know wind rapes all.

"gopher" is the name you are looking for

thought you liked hidden mechanics, shame it got mainstream (:

I heard garpy talking about try this on his stream a few weeks ago (referring to killsen-someone else called it Korean something on a stream too), TBH I did not think too much about it as the game's tech issues/balance have somewhat grinded me down and I'm not the type of gamer who likes to use exploits because when they get nerfed, all of a sudden your true skill is revealed.

But I have defo played players who hit like a train with the LG, and I never ever believed there was anyone in the world who was that much better than me at tracing a crosshair with the LG, better yes, but not so much better the effect of that made me feel insecure about going into an LG battle with a stacked heavy vs their Anarki and losing.

I suspect this was one of those secrets that a lot of people knew about but just kept it quite low key, but the thing was out there for a while now, and I'm sure I saw CS players using it 10+ years ago to counter recoil. I suspect some mice have firmware to help with this too.

It kinda makes sense why it works (assuming it does) and I'm not sure how they resolve this. Perhaps some kind of built in mechanic on the LG which dynamically caps the fire rate in relation to cross hair movement.

There is no legitimate reason to twitch like that, so it could be easily solved if they put something into the game. Or, they could put up a warning saying if the game detects you're doing this, the game simply caps your DMG as its defined you as a player who does this.

If you could find out what benefit this has % wise, it would be quite easy to reverse this, so even if players kept using it and it was proven to help, it would not really help them.

You can often tell when they're doing it to you though because of the insane jiggle though, feeling like you're being hit by a train is usually positioning, or being jumped on with net code issues or even just positioning. Fov doesn't hurt either, can really speed up your initial connection.

Either way, it will be gone very soon.

"Perhaps some kind of built in mechanic on the LG which dynamically caps the fire rate in relation to cross hair movement.

There is no legitimate reason to twitch like that, so it could be easily solved if they put something into the game. Or, they could put up a warning saying if the game detects you're doing this, the game simply caps your DMG as its defined you as a player who does this.

If you could find out what benefit this has % wise, it would be quite easy to reverse this, so even if players kept using it and it was proven to help, it would not really help them. "

that has to be the stupidest idea for a solution.. you looking for a job at Id?

Its a fine idea.

There is no valid reason for a user to shake a mouse quickly across such a small surface area with a certain weapon out.

My idea would act as a simple fix for detecting, and make it pointless.
Players would soon stop using it because it would become counter productive and shift focus back to using the weapon as designed.

How else would you propose to detect and solve this?

You don't, you fix the code instead, it's easier to fix than detect :)

Not for saber/id apparently.
They wrote in the changelog:
Lightning Gun
Fixed issue where LG could mishit with very fast mouse flicks.

However they did not fix it. Which also means that they did not test this patch. It would have taken 10 sec (well with qc and loading/waiting/drama screens 5 min.) to see that it not fixed.
Same for the spec bug in sac, they replaced it with another annoyance, obviously again that they did not test what they wanted to roll out. Let the idiots/users test it, why bother?

You don't understand, do you. They roll these changes out TO get tested. If you want to get a reliably tested game, you have to get these changes tested by pros. But not like in casual sparring situations, since the players don't push themselves to 100%. With money / qualification on the line, they are trying hard, so it is a reliable test result. That is the genius of id.

They could probably implement my hack in a day or so to the same effect, how long based on current progress do you think it would take them to resolve this in netcode on a game which is clearly struggling with the basics?

And if they did fix this in netcode, what impact would that have elsewhere?

There are tournaments coming up, Clawz probably won quakecon because of this. I say stick in a quick bodge to fix it now and just get the game working properly again before risking breaking it again.

Implementing your 'hack' is just another set of code which can be bugged and lead to unexpected results

I think they mean your solution is treating the symptoms rather than the underlying issue.

Today's new update has apparently fixed this issue!

wtf you have legit 1200 elo LG aim man :DD

1200 ELO?
ROGER DODGE

In QL you were 1200 elo in duel :)

That's because I stopped playing FPS in 2006 for about 10 years, with occasional, returns for a few dozen hours a year.

You quit playing quake, it takes time to re-sync with the game.
If you do not invest that time, you permanently suck.

Well, I'm back and thrown down the gauntlet.
http://www.esreality.com/post/2895937/n-a/#pid2895937

And nobody wants it.

That's power.

FFA isnt competetive. Lets go duel and record it for everybody on ESR to laugh about, I recommend.

"You quit playing quake, it takes time to re-sync with the game.
If you do not invest that time, you permanently suck."

Form is temporary, class is permanent

http://www.esreality.com/post/2895915/re-mega...pid2895915

"Funny cos when I lost for years against pros you called me shit.
When I'm beating pros its fake. Or its the wrong game mode."

And then....

"FFA isnt competetive."

Thing is, I dont buy that you ever beat a pro. Sure, you play FFA 24/7, but in the late stages of QL, I remember you had 1200 elo in duel and you were playing for some weeks already, again.

Doubt that 24/7. I've met him like twice during ~11k FFAs.

"You play FFA 24/7" = > present time => QC, not QL

just put it to sleep already

Preach it.

T O U R N A M E N T
R E A D Y

oh gawd

After every new update i am asking myself: could it be even worse than this? Are there dedicated person working on ruining whole thing 24/7 in id office payed by bunch of donuts? Human factor or complete incompetency even in small things?

And then update with 0dmg rockets


And then update with OP robot


And then update with LG aim hack and lags


Sorry, beth, i cant force myself to play this, at least in current product condition

"Are there dedicated person working on ruining whole thing 24/7 in id office payed by bunch of donuts? Human factor or complete incompetency even in small things?"

I see you're not familiar with the tales of the Cocoon Man:


http://www.esreality.com/post/2895258/re-patc...pid2894987

Seems quite obvious that Clawz knew about this during QuakeCon. I kept wondering why he was shaking the shit out of his LG (having never played this shiteration of Quake) but this makes perfect sense. All the better to not make it too obvious by doing it here and there, but I might just go ahead and make a timeline video of every instance seen during QCon that this was used.

Happy to be proven wrong, perhaps this bug didn't exist during the tournament, but I absolutely found myself wondering many times why people were jittering their LG so hard.

I heard of this B4 Qcon, its only now that its gained some kind of widespread exposure though.

I think it was lost in the general consensus that the game is not done yet. everyone seems to be wiggling lately though.

It can only mean good things for players who did not abuse it.

How tha fack saber ?!? -_-

Lol @ the clawz accusations. I have talked about how clawz likes to shake his lg on esr before even quake champions had came out. I have even seen him in spec say the secret to lg is to shake it in QL. I disagree since other players without the shaky lg had far better lg than him in ql imo but my point is he has been aiming like this for a long time.

N1 shakey

well you come to the philosophical points what causes what but let's say that clawz has been extremely fortunate that id/saber can't write decent software.
Some code just favors some players more than others and eventually all skilled people will adapt but it takes time.

i was thinking... shaking the lg, assuming you can mostly maintain contact with the enemy model, could possibly make it harder for your opponent dodge if your opponent dodges based on where the lg is rather than dodge randomly like in a lg vs lg fight.

That's possible but he shakes it even when they are in mid air and have no way to dodge.

Habit

Esports Ready

I just wish vo0 could win something...

i seem to recall you have a weak spot for people who take second places

I do.

Just to make sure: Clawz hit(s) INSANE shaft on QL as well.

his lg was so insane in ql.... nobody took notice of his aim back then....
all pro players have insane lg (even rapha) but there were only 2 guys who stick out of the masses of pro players. Strenx and Tox

althought z4muz's brother hits harder than toxjq in q3

... and yet cypher outaimed both of these supposed top2 aimers on lans.

because cypher has an insane lg as well? + cypher's positioning helps a lot to have the upper hand in an aim battle

btw nobody starts an equal stack lg fight vs toxjq because he wins in most cases

Lol, years ago clawz was just a boy playing sometimes online cup, not a lan hero.
He was very good but not dedicated like pros.
tox/strenx/cypher/evil/stermy/killsen played in tons of tournaments, sure more famous than him, but still he was known like "little cypher" and future qcon champion :D
His aim was already in the top 5 or more, just not tested in years, you can easily find his matches in 125fps and maybe faceit online

that's not true, loads of people took notice of his aim

Uhh, what? On the rare occasion that clawz played in the 125FPS QL cups, he was one of the few people who gave Evil a lot of trouble and it was purely because of his aim, which is even more shocking since Evil's aim is also sick. Clawz has been an aim monster since he changed his named from dragoniz or whatever it was before.

Even Spartie was saying how he thought Clawz had some of the best aim in Quake.

This.

You w8 mate?

Clawz's aim was literally his only assett in ql, literally the only thing that allowed him to, some rare times, beat some top player.

His aim was unhuman in ql, especially the rail.

Almost on par with Evil's, that was by far the hardest hitter in the late era of quake live, both with rail and lg, and that is the undisputed hardest hitter in quake live history. Some nutjobs likes to wank about Tox's aim, but Tox was never the hardest hitter in duel.

lol clawz fanboi :D
you mentioned rail in duel games?
90% of all rail shots in duel are known default shots so what?

Tox was the hardest hitter in q4 duel. Thats just a fact! and Strenx was accused for cheating until he joined a LAN... because his positioning/timing was unreal....

Is there a clawz uses aimbot thread in ql forum? then link plz!
otherwise nobody took notice of his aim because its just not special compared to other pro players.

Strenx was accused for cheating until he joined a LAN... because his positioning/timing was unreal....

lmao citation sorely needed.

Er, Strenx had unreal aim but lacked experience in timing and positioning. Strenx really had to work to get his positioning and timing up to pro level, because pro's were just tearing him to pieces despite his trace in the cups he kept entering.

He really did surprise people when he brought his game up though. He started to play less aggressively too.

Strenx had crazy trace with LG, but played 'dumb' according to alot of opinions when he broke into scene. His duel game was very bad and he made bad decisions and would get wrecked all the time.

Just my recall of the time, (not that long ago), but he was commonly considered to have bizarrely terrible positioning and timing in comparison to his aim.

you are a terrible troll, but nice try

shit. plus'ed when i wanted to reply. Nvm.
Tox was never the hardest hitter in duel? Really?
So you are telling me that somebody else was hitting 50-60% LG at LAN against other top aimers like strenx?

If I remember correctly clawz barely survived the lg fight against tox at quakecon when he had quad and armor, while tox had pretty much nothing. That isn't duel, but it does give some indications about aim.

Imo tox was the undisputed hardest hitter but his positioning and rustyness made his lg look not as great as cyphers against good players. Plus evil could use his lg more effectively at odd angles which is very important against good players.

Tox was never the hardest hitter in duel? Really?
So you are telling me that somebody else was hitting 50-60% LG at LAN against other top aimers like strenx?

If I remember correctly clawz barely survived the lg fight against tox at quakecon when he had quad and armor,

Learn to read, maybe? Otherwise you look like an ass.

You are the one who needs to learn to read - like literally one line below the quote you highlighted.

"That isn't duel, but it does give some indications about aim. "

So YOU do indeed look like an ass. Like a severely retarded ass with more extra cromosomes than overall brain cells.

I saw that line, but it doesn't change the stupidity of your post. It's like saying "i'm not retarded, but".. and then proceeding to say something retarded.

Which is exactly what you said.

go back to sniffing glue, moron.

Retards that can't write or read properly ususally resort to projection when coming up with insults, because you aren't creative enough; so yeah, stay quiet in your basement, one day you'll be able to afford some weed, provided you gather enough balls to look out for a dealer.

you are pretty damn self conscious of being a retard. Maybe there is hope for you, if you ease of the glue, moron.

Tsk, tsk. You're even frothing. Seems that i hit home with the "basement life", uh? More like hit basement.

one situation isn't indicator of who is better in direct fight tho

This is not a "bug" because in this case every hitscan weapon should perform "Parkinson LG damage" but it doesnt Parkinson damage with Clutch's beam.

Apparently there are some microcode written special for lg on purpose and now when they got caught with this shit - "OH ITS A BUG ! WELL, WE WILL FIX IT" No, bitches, dont lie to me

So much anecdotal evidence in this thread :(