Legitimacy 90%

easily explained: clawz has been spending all the cheese on booze

i dont think its fair to blame the players. it is up to them to use everything that is possible within the game to win, unless tournament rules specify anything else (like maximum picmip or w/e). And since their ambition is high they will test a lot of things to improve their results. working as intented.

and it is up to the developers to provide a game with no major flaws that can be abused in such a way. unbalanced characters? ok. idiotic hit scan system in a first person shooter? not ok.

basically the question is - why do a 1 million $ tournament in a game in its alpha status. Thats bound to be an exploit fest

We should also go back and see who started to use rocket jumps to move faster around the map and also who started to strafe jump in order to move faster.
Also isn't the timing of items kind of an exploit - not all people can count?

yep - that's like going back to an early quakecon and the runner-up arguing that they only lost because they didn't realise that items spawned at a regular, timable interval

Mouse sensitivity and stuff like that should also be looked at.
Maybe if evil had the same settings as rapha he wouldn't have choked against him countless times over the years.
Might the colour of ones socks or the lack of socks also be crucial?

I get the best results in knee socks.

just knee socks?

<3 LUL

who cares? wasn't that significant of an exploit imo
just let clawz enjoy the cheese
he's probably sat on his throne made out of cheese right now, nibbling on fine quality Camembert

Yes.

he probably didn't even know.

All played the same game.

I wouldn't put much trust into my own memories but I don't remember Clawz's aim being that shaky

Not a bad conspiracy, though. Maybe thresh knew something no one outside id knew as well. Urban legends, man. Earth's not round.

I do, and he wiggled and shaked a lot. Not super obvious, but in tough fights he did that, maybe even subconsciously knowing that it will help him hit. But yea, he did. A lot.

I remember one moment against Vo0's Sorlag.
The crosshair was moving around the whole model as if he was getting gassed in Auschwitz.

QC was sufficiently new that no one had developed sophisticated strategy. The meta was weak. That means that raw mechanics played a bigger role.

I suggest you go look at the results of the first major Q2, Q3, and Q4 tournaments. The first guy to win them doesn't necessarily mean he's going to dominate every one.

Clawz's aim was insane before QC. He was a top QL player. There's no debate that he's a top tier player and so it doesn't seem fishy to me that he won.

clawz was an LG-dominant player and the more recent tournaments were when the LG was completely useless so obviously that is going to negatively affect someone who relies on LG a lot.

I like to think there's an award for discovering a game breaking bug or glitch to get an advantage, that is getting free wins at the next tournament. Once you reveal the discovery they get fixed/banned after the tournament anyway. Though whether it's respectful or not is another question. I guess it all boils down to how game breaking it is. If someone found a way to instawin with no skill then that is pretty bad.

Clawz always aimed like that

Quakecon results a complete joke because of Quake Champions

and fwiw: clawz always had great aim in ql too - very strong shafter

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

don't hate the game, hate the bugs.

don't hate the bugs, hate the developers.

don't hate the developers, hate the donuts.

don't hate the donuts,
hate the coke.

or settle for hating Tim Willits

i just was waiting of it :D

Dr. Syncerror or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Donut

I was doing it too in pub FFA games despite not knowing about the exploit.

I just got this sensation that aiming at the edge of the model seemed to do more damage, I guess I thought I was leading the netcode lag and was on centre of the model as far as netcode was concerned.

I never really understood why but after several dozen FFA games it just became instinct. Not going full parkinson style but still could feel something there.

The overall state the game was in at the time + the abscence of Cypher and Agent even though they qualified should be enough for anyone to not take the Qcon 2017 results seriously. The LG wiggle bug which Clawz abused is another reason.

Imo DHW was the first and so far only tournament of which the results could be taken somewhat seriously, other tournaments had gameplay changes right before the tournament and/or abscence of a significant amount of good players.

Speaking of tournaments, has there anything been announced or rumored yet?

It's not his fault, kudos to him for winning it and all, and he is the legitimate winner of the tournament.

With that said, it's just not the same as a tournament without ridiculous bugs that completely change aiming, objectively, for the worse by making it a gimmick rather than for the most part the same aim that for the most part has been around since we had Quake and ball mice. When people say legitimacy, that is part of it unless they're saying in the most minimal sense. So yes, in that sense, the tournament had significantly less legitimacy than it would have otherwise.

Typical noob thinking in the thread opener.
In the thorin voo interview voo talks about a shotgun trick in painkiller that some players discovered and how he hoped that players in the tournament the opponents haven't discovered it yet so he could abuse it. Once I played with a noob ca player and in the warmup stages I spawn raped him whenever I could and he started to cry in the chat. These people dont understand that the playing field is level and if someone knows something that the others don't then you don't get to think up an arbitrary rule like in the kindergarten but your task is to wise the fuck up.

Tldr care moar

thats bs

The beauty of this, even if you think it is bs I spawn rape you all the same, clawz will wiggle lg all day long and you can not do anything about it other than crying bs and gaping your asss to my pleasure:case in point.
I think it is easy to see who acts the believing in the unreal fairy part. Jesus these facts are here to just fuck with you I swear.

i can do not play qc

me neither.

I feel for you

He potentially knew something that could help him be better than his opponents.

Yeah it's a grey area, however this shit happens in all video games.

Dota 2 and the infamous pudge / chen hook combo.

CS:GO Olofmeister aka Boostmeister and the legendary AWP boost spot.

It might be game breaking and allowing an advantage but then again, why didn't any of the other players or team put the effort in to figure it all out?

Semantics my friend.

Also F1 teams routinely work around and bend the rules. Remember when they banned moving electronic aerodynamics? They came up with spoilers that bend under airpressure. see ma, it wss the air that moved it, not me. Competitive advantage. Somehow it is important in competition. But hey being ethical is also nice, but you should not do sports then, be a doctor.

Btw this was the second.thread that I read about clawz winning. It seems that was that big heart breaking moment for cooller rapha cypher fanboys that they straight went to psychotherapy and they got hushed by the doctor sssh he was cheating i take from what you told me that only three guys cpuld win in a quake competition.
Never mind a fucking hungarian nobody you never heard of raisy beats rapha and tox But oh no, clawz winning vs voo no, thats too much to take.
Get a fucking grip

Yeah it's a fair call that this sort of thing happens in all games but we have to acknowledge the extent that this lg bug actually fucking broke the game in terms of balance. This was a tremendous bug that could fundamentally alter the results of matches depending on the player involved. If clawz was not hitting that much lg how can we say that he could have won the playoffs matches, let alone the grand final?

What extent? An unknown player from an unknown country not even the best player there historically, literally without any mentionable record went to quakecon and took maps of rapha until the last minute rapha had to hide, and this player beat toxic. What extent are you talking about?

I agree with "broke the game" but not with the "in terms of balance". It is naive to think this game ever had balance. I'm not sure it ever can.

Fuck how does this same accusation keep coming up. Clawz always aimed like this. I have even talked about his wiggle lg before quake Champions ever came out on esr.

bet you've been looking at his wiggle for years haven't you
bet it turns you on

Even if he wiggled since Q1 it's reaaaalllyyyy shitty that there was a huge tourney with such a morbidly obese donkey balls bug.

Let's just say it took us a long ass time to figure out what was essentially a pretty obvious exploit. Shame on us, Quake community...