Do we need more tournaments?

there's a faint odor of cheese in the air, it's coming from around summer 2018.

good luck in the tournament ScanX, hope you win some cheese and cause some upsets vs the known pr0s

what the fuck is that cheese stuff that you seem to be spamming everywhere ?

is that meant to be some sort of humour ?

winD cheese

xD

you aint from the streets r u boi

https://www.lyrics.com/lyric/17813476/Juvenil...ting+Money

he be white boi

They aren't having anymore QC big tournaments. Once syncerror found out about rapha bootcamping with WinD, he knew it was pointless and announced cancellation of future events.. So to save money he's just mailing the checks to those two guys.

edit: words

WinD killing the Quack.

Player leaving the Zorak!

yeah and no info from the team / zero4 at all, wtf

How much was the game sold you imagine? How much would every $ invested in tournaments/ad campaign return for id in the future?

It's failed.

is zero4 still involved with id?
last streams I saw two other people called community managers, just watched that stream for 5 secs though, but I doubt zero4 will show up in that stream ... anyway why do they have so many community managers? dont see them having a community portal or holding onlinecups ... what are these community managers doing? If you count these 2 and zero4, you already have *THREE* community managers

solid math skills here

zero4 is esports manager, not community manager
And no, I don't think he was actually involved in anything except taking part in daily donut eatings. Actually, and this is my pure speculation, he might have been offering some sensible ideas for esports, like doing it carefully, not shitting out millions dollars instantly at a half working game, and making gameplay more esports friendly, and that's why he's been effectively silenced since the beginning, because it interferes with Tim Willits plans to kill quake.

I dont think they hired zero4 for marketing ... tournaments and prizefunds do fall into the marketing category ... I think there should be more qualified guys out there to "promote" the game ... I think he is rather there for decisions on competetive gameplay ... gameplay is fine, they just need a good tp mod ... but my guess somehow is they dont believe anymore in quake champions, they have held a handful of tournaments by now, quakecon, dreamhack, dreamhack qualifiers, online qualifiers for quakecon, eswc paris ... and they see the player base is pretty low compared to overwatch/cs/pubg ... it is unlikely they are going to reverse this situation, maybe they have given up on the game already ... I mean Bethesda managers are also observing the state of quake champions, they make the decisions if they should blast more money into qc or not, and they only do that if they are cashing out at the end ... they look at the stats and when they meet up with the quake champions team, they will try to see if there is any potential left for the game, and when good ol tim speaks up that he has talk to the community prepared that will absolutely win the remaining die hard ql players over to qc and save quake champions, Bethesda will have pretty much decided not to continue flogging the dead horse ....

Zero4 is there to bodyblock the groupies from touching emperor Willitz.

2 + zero4 = 6 you dumbo

QuakeCon? ^^

What is the purpose of hosting a tournament with a game that no one wants to watch?

inb4 duel killed quake part 2!

what a load of rubbish that piece of writing was

and it would be even dumber applied to QC

it's actually a good text.

Do you agree with it, or do you just think it was well written?

I agree with it in a way. I don't think duel did anything good for Quake. 1v1 doesn't grow the scene in any way, or even community. I don't think it killed Quake tho. QL failure should be attributed only to id software and their inability to deliver any form of modern features with QL.

If you remember beta, it had a form of matchmaking (duel detective), it had ladders, stats, etc. Instead of building on it for release, they ripped it out of the game and left players with a hilariously bad clan system and a friend list that was more of a nuissance than a good thing. Oh, you could also tweet your scoreboards. It also didn't help that the dev team got sized down to 2 people.

Think about it, you're shipping your game in a web browser, probably the ideal client to integrate anything you'd ever want or think of. And you don't use 1% of the opportunities it had to offer.

And even with that, it still had a ton of players at start, but nothing to retain them. What's worse, it had login queues that contributed to people losing interest.

If QL was done right they would have a lot more people ready to play new Quake and wouldn't need to reinvent the wheel with QC. Things like adding abilities, thinking of hybrid game modes no one seems interested in, etc wouldn't be necessary. It could've been a perfect bridge between Q3 and a new Quake game.

I mean, take a look at csgo, dota, lol, even sc2 early in it's life. It's same old gameplay, same old shit like 10 years earlier. It just had a ton of modern features added to the game so people have something to do because devs figured out just having join/leave game ain't gonna keep players interested for long, no matter how good the game was.

So yeah, what killed Quake Live is id software, not duels. Duels just didn't contribute anything to growing a scene or community.

I agree on the main cause of what killed QL. I'd argue that there were some benefits to 1v1, like being able to continue tournaments when it would not have been economical to do them. It also gave it appeal as a different flavor for tournament organizers and spectators.

With that said, sure, probably teammodes would have helped the game grow more. It seems both of us are still in stark disagreement with the article, so I don't understand why you're claiming that you agree with it in a way. The article in no unambigious terms says that Duel killed Quake, not idsoftware's mismanagement of the product.

Well, the moment you give the tournament organizers a choice between 1v1 or team modes, they're probably picking 1v1. It's easier to organize, has lower costs, including flying players over vs flying teams over, etc. All that and no drawback for the organizer, it's still going to be watched everyone who'd watch a team mode and what not.

I mean, take a look at QC, from $75k per player for first place finish in sacrifice to dhw & $17,5k distribution for first place compared to duel - $100k on qcon, $50k on dhw. Hell, even some organizations picked up players, but not their teams. There's hardly any incentive to compete professionally in a team mode in quake as long as duel is a viable option. And without team modes you have nothing, no scene or community.

To sum it up, imo duel killed quake in the following way: whoever you ask they'll say "yeah i know quake i watched rapha playin vs someone, its hardcore" (substitute rapha with any popular dueler). First of all, duel sends out the wrong picture, like it's hardcore, 1v1 only, no mistakes allowed game. Most of people don't like that pressure, specially if they're playing just for fun.

Then when you ask people who "saw rapha play vs someone" if they play quake, 90% say no. Mostly because of the perception I wrote above. Unsurprisingly, most people don't suffer from autism like majority of quakers and have enough social skills not only to make friends, but to play with them without triggering if/when something in the match goes wrong.

TL;DR Duel is cockblocking quake, thus plays a part in killing it in a way that people just don't have interest in it because they perceive it a mostly 1v1 game.

Also, lol @ id software, talkin shit bout how they gonna focus on team mode with qc, but first thing they do is get duel in the game before sacrifice and drop sacrifice after 2 lans while they give duel ranked.

I don't really disagree that duel has had some negative impact on Quake. It's hard to measure, in some senses, it was a positive. Probably should have focused on teamgames more, sure.

To whatever extent you dislike duel, it seems you don't think it was the primary cause, and I agree. And I think the column was absolutely adamant that it was duel, so whatever you can get out of it, it needs to be reframed from the absurd absolutist PoV it was framed in.

I figured the game was dead already (was kinda dead before it was even launched given this genre isnt popular anymore)

However I wonder why big teams like virtus.pro or navi got into QC then.
I expected them to have some kind of "secret" information about bethesda's plans to organise big tournaments for the upcoming year

Question is what getting into QC means. Navi like... gave Anton a jacket.

I dunno the details but I was assuming he was getting a salary like any dota2/CS player does (probably not same wage though)

There were decent salaries I think. I wouldn't be surprised if those were for longer contracts that last into now too.

At face value it appears that there minor investment was simply a speculation and it probably did not pay off given the low viewer numbers.

At this stage there is little indication that QC will begin to attract new players and viewers. There's nothing significant in the pipeline other than the off chance that the debilitating bugs, hitboxes and other fundamentals will be fixed and the game will be something close to a decent multiplayer title.

http://acceleratede.esportsify.com/articles/news

you'll only find out about the big events after they've taken place

Blew their load way too early on that million dollar tournament. Game still isn't even in tournament worthy condition, would be surprised if they have any money left at this point for sponsoring competitions. Who else in their right mind is going to sponsor this game for tournaments?

So when is next QC big tournament ?
In 7 mounths.

Should have put that million bucks in to FFA tourneys.
It would have gotten so many more players.

They put it in "worthy" modes like duel and sac and most pros (or just really good like me) are not a fan of either mode. And any new players were scared away knowing they had zero chance of winning a dime. So they give away 1.2 million to people who would have invested the same effort for 25% of that purse.

The reality is FFA is the only semi fun thing about the game IMO.
Taking the game as seriously as you need to in duel or competitive team play, just makes the things about the game you dislike a big deal and makes you unhappy.

In FFA, its less problematic. bit more random, you don't expect too much of it and as a result the game does not take too much out of you so you can play more.

The bottom line is a sponsor would take a 2000 entry FFA tourney over a 64 player duel any day of the week.

Game is too gimmicky and too many characters are not-fun/frustrating to play against.

Dire Orb Kills, Invis, Invincible, they went full retard, they should have been more subtle.

Not sure if trolling but there is absolutely no chance any respectable company would throw money away in a mode that has 0 chance of being respected and considered viable.

I'm not saying duel or sac were viable but FFA is literally taking the piss and would be like claiming : "look we don't take ourselves seriously, we just like to splash money around".
GL finding durable sponsors that way.

Also there is really no guarantee FFA would increase the amount of viewers and that's ultimately the only thing sponsors care about, not how many people take part in it.
They would rather have an all-star invite only tourney with 8 participants and 100K viewers than an open tournament with 1000 participants and 5K viewers.

Finally, randomness is the last thing you want to incorporate in your plan/gameplay.
Since when are companies looking to have a fluke as winner rather than the most skilled player there is ??
Do you really want to be looking as the lotto of esports ?

"Not sure if trolling but there is absolutely no chance any respectable company would throw money away in a mode that has 0 chance of being respected and considered viable."

Respectable Companies put money into all kinds of shit, far worse than FFA tourneys.

And how respectable do you think duel was in August?

Did the wiggly LG earn your admiration, or the Anarki BS, or the obviously OP sorlag, or the push button dire orbb kills, maybe you thought going invisible with nyx every time you fucked up was cool.

The purity of what a pure FPS duel game was ended in quake live.

So what's the point in arguing about which modes are not pure in an impure game.

Stands to reason, no new players stuck around for the money cos no one had the skill to beat existing quakers.

FFA was the only mode where good FPS players from other games really could have made a dent or had a chance. So chances are the money they used to entice people would have enticed more people if those players felt they had a chance. Something they never had, or ever will in duel and team games are an chore to organize.

Every major company has put money into sponsoring crap a million times worse than a FFA tourney.

The biggest draw QC had was.

It being new.
Having a million dollar tourney.
Being on an even ground with the opposition.

The game needs a reboot for 2018, but its hard to see what cards they have left to play.

well said jamerio

now get into #tdmpickup and start grinding

I don't play team games.

What turns you off from team games?

I don't get the same feeling of satisfaction from winning games because its divided between 4 people instead of 1.

Was I carried?
Did someone screw up and cost me victory?

These are all things you don't have to consider when you play for yourself.

Plus it requires a lot more organisation, ties, commitment to be in a team, if you cancel, or something comes up, you screw other people up.

I don't want that.

It's normally really obvious if those situations have occurred though.

I always blame my team. Even when we win.

You can keep whining about how bad the game is and how much you hate it, it doesnt change the fact that your logic is v. flawed.

I never claimed the game was good or balanced or whatever you want to cry about, but thinking that FFA is the way to go is ludicrous.
Thinking that Bethesda would/should build the competitive aspect of the game they just conceived around a mode that is literally meant for warmup, learning the basics, turning the brain off and just mashing buttons.
Are you serious lol ?

FFA was the only mode where good FPS players from other games really could have made a dent or had a chance.

Give me a break, sacrifice is as close to FFA as you can get. The strategy required is minimal and it's chaotic as fuck. So dont tell me that those so called other good FPS players couldn't have made a dent in that mode.

The only reason they didnt come and never will is because this game never had any future and that's the end of it. And your beloved FFA wouldn't have changed anything about that.
The money is in CS:GO and Overwatch, period.

"The money is in CS:GO and Overwatch, period."

Cept there was circa 1.2 us dollar million pumped into quake champs in the 8 months.

FFA is nothing like SAC.

Your comparisons are bizzare.

And comparing the money pumped into CS or Overwatch with QC ain't bizarre ?

Wasn't it obvious that I was talking longterm ?
And you act like 1.2mil is a ton. Do you even have a clue of the amount of money that is being distributed in the big games nowadays ?

I guess I'll spell it out then :

1mil out of this 1.2 was a one time marketing stunt while in CS, for example, there is maybe between 12 and 15mil distributed yearly and for a few years in a row now (and it's not looking like it's slowing down).
I'm not even talking about the money players get from contracts and stickers sold on steam...

And the point I was trying to make with sac is that you act like it's impossible for non-veteran quakers to stand a chance in the modes played competitively but that they would in FFA to which I replied that sac is simple enough strategy wise that those new players that you assume could win at FFA should be able to be competitive at sac if they really cared (and yes I'm aware it would also require them to form a team...)

OVER WATCH:
Prize Money Awarded: $5,399,029.05 From 527 Tournaments since 2014

QUAKE CHAMPIONS:
Prize Money Awarded: $1,468,942.31 From 50 Tournaments since 2017

QC so far has probably had more money put into it than OW did in its first 8-9 months. So no its not bizzare as you have no idea how much more will go into it and for how long.

CS is in another league and always has been.

wtf are you talking about, Overwatch was released in may 2016

They've had tournaments with decent prizepool going non stop since its release and this year they are taking it to the next level with the Overwatch League and 3.5mil on the line and an additional million on the side for smaller teams. (and there might be more tournaments announced in the future of course)

While QC...well, hence this thread...when is the next fucking tournament ???

Oh and Overwatch reached 35 million players in october 2017 btw while QC's daily peak is 550 players at the same time...so ye, they're in another league too if you ask me.

That's true. They reached 35 million player base. When they reached 25 million player base their pricing was 60€ for Overwatch. Not to mention that organizations pay 2 to 20 million just to be part of overwatch league/tournaments. Blizzard got multimillions just from Overwatch. Quake Champions lost millions, but they are trying to be better. We the community are so small, we should support them instead of trash talk. I hope they will not wait until another Qcon and make marketing move. I hope they will make this step now. They need to put ADs on youtube, FB, gaming organizations and so on to get more and more ppl into this game. Last thing that I want to point out. Overwatch have consoles included. My bet is that at least 25 million player base is from PS4 and Xbox.

Bethesda said months ago, they havent started their marketing yet and wont do it before the game is fully released.
Which I personally think is a good idea.

1 million qc tournament ...
AMD giftcode for qc champions with their gfx cards ...
no marketing at all man

I meant 2015, The source inverted the dates to what I was used to seeing (last two digits) and it was nearly 3am.

The date range for OW earnings from from NOV 2015 to now (Jan 2018) which is about 2 years, 2 months, 6 days.

https://www.esportsearnings.com/games/426-overwatch

Quake champs from June 2017 to now (Jan 2018) is only 7 months, 3 days.

So given you have no idea how much more money will be put into quake champs, so far the game has been very profitable.
It just depends on how they market it.

Hardly anyone played painkiller and that had a million dollar tourney.

There isn't always a correlation between how many people play something and how much they put into it. I'm saying, if they want to lure new players with pumping money into it put it into FFA because its the most popular mode for the game and will get more people into it, instead of them getting owned so hard in duel they have zero belief or chance any of that money is for them and that money being wasted of existing die hards.

I'm living proof that it can or can nearly be done. Luck saved toxic that day. What other mode would I ever be able to say that in vs arguably the best overall quaker ever?

lol this is getting ridiculous

You insist on giving the wrong release date for Overwatch. The game was in closed beta end of 2015 and the real tournaments only started in july 2016 for crying outloud...

And Painkiller is such a poor example...not only was it a very stupid financial decision and the game was never played again competitively right after the championship finals, but it was also a very long time ago when there was little competition from other games in esports. (There was like Starcraft and CS and that's it ?)
They also had some TV deal iirc that QC wouldnt even dream of getting nowadays with no audience to justify it.

"There isn't always a correlation between how many people play something and how much they put into it. "

Do you even believe what you're saying ??

How can you expect money being repetitively pumped into a game noone cares to play or watch nowadays...seriously ?

This isn't 2005 anymore you know

The QC million dollar tourney last year had ridiculously low amount of viewers...even when you put silly amount of money as prizepool, noone cares to even watch it.
But you think they will repetitively pull that stunt and throw money at a game that doesnt reap any rewards ?

And regarding your living proof about FFA lol
I dont even want to argue again about how stupid it is to believe/hope that FFA could become an "esports" mode.

All I'll say is that I would love to see you on a FFA server with Toxic AND noctis, cypher, avek, rapha etc instead of 10 randoms and see your living proof video then...unless you assume they wouldn't qualify for your FFA World Championship (I feel stupid just typing it)

"You insist on giving the wrong release date for Overwatch. The game was in closed beta end of 2015 and the real tournaments only started in july 2016 for crying outloud..."

I am listing the dates given on that site. I assume they know more than you given their dedicated to that specific cause.

https://www.esportsearnings.com/games/426-overwatch

P.S.
Tony beat loads of pro's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAg4b1UwnDY

Go ask them to play me then, I'll do it live like Tony did.

Pro freestyle footballers can do better tricks than pro players, its the same in FFA, there is a skill to it and when you become known as one of the best at anything, the hate designed to take you down follows.

how about the first line of your site saying that the game was released in 2016 lol ?

How can you seriously be debating this when it's a FACT that the game was released on 24th may 2016 to be precise ?
Are you dumb or just trolling...fucking hell

Other than that ye your site is listing the 8 events that took place in 2015 while the game was in closed beta for a grand total of $3200 prizepool, cool story

Also great example with Tony...an FFA match for giggles during an official duel tournament is deffo solid proof, I'm sure everyone besides Tony practiced hard for it and was trying even harder.

A sponsored FFA tourney would get more people playing.
I don't care what your opinion is.

Nobody in the outside world gives a shite about duel or sacrifice, so a FFA tourney is just as relevant.

You talk about proof, yet talk like its a given pro duel players would beat anyone at FFA based on other game mode skills.

Selective thinking much.

If you want the proof, go and line up 7 pros for me to play on a FFA server and I'll be the bait.

I promise you, I won't be last.

Oh if the great Jamerio promises that then how can I not trust it !

I stand corrected, you're dumb AND delusional

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/186056151

The game needs a reboot for 2018, but its hard to see what cards they have left to play.

ah, a metric ton of new "heroes" hopefully.

Let's not forget that you beat Cooller in an FFA once, so you're better than him

Should have put that million bucks in to FFA tourneys.

Should have put it in development.

While Jamerio is trying to push his weird self promoting agenda, he coincidentaly gets something right: FFA is by far the most fun and most popular gametype in QC.

Maybe the solution is to stop wasting money on Sacrifice, and to stop splitting the playerbase and dev time in multiple modes. Just focus on the gametypes people actually like, dropping what people do not like. Promote FFA as the sole casual gametype, in the menus, and on events have PCs for people to play FFA in. Make duel and one team based gametype be permanently the sole two competitive gametypes, in the menus (ranked) and tournaments. Simple, like all popular games are.

FFA is the one thing QC gets right, and is the most neglected, in favor of stuff nobody plays. At the end of the day, the idea is for devs to spend their time and resources into making content people will play, and nobody is playing Sacrifice. Heck, even Vale (the new duel map) gets waaaaay less playtime than what say Church gets in FFA, but duel gets the priority despite FFA being much more popular.

Most popular gametype? yes - drop FFA and bring CA.

take the best of the two worlds ...
replace tdm with ca and let ffa be as it is :-)
though I think neither tdm or ca have what it takes for tp, there should be some other objectivebased gametype :-)

TDM seems to actually be more popular, whenever i queue for FFA and TDM 90% of the time i get a TDM game.

cd ../ql

'IF' only QL had came on cd...

then we wouldn't have had to put up with syncerror's enforced changes 27.08.2014 >> onwards

cd ../q3

That'll do just fine
*Fixed* :o)

more like
cd .. && rm -rf qc && cd ql

Should have taken that 1 milli they wasted on one tournament and spread it in to 4 or even 8 tournaments.

I guess they don't think from a longevity point of view, Quake has never had a consistent 10k viewership on twitch. Hell, even the GTV days of Quake where some servers could only host 100 people watching we'd at least have multiple GTV streams.

Yes spreading it would have been a much smarter way to go.

The only problem is that is costs much more to host multiple tournaments as opposed to one.

But it would also have been healthier for the players to have multiple chances at winning something instead of having a massive one shot "winner takes it all"

i wonder if hosting local tournaments is a necessity anyways. I'd rather use existing structures and build upon them. Pick a tournament organizer (like 125fps) and a streamer (like zoto paired with dkt), make a contract with them to host weekly 10k $ cups. Then support them with corporate identity stuff (which logo to use where, how to name things) and invest into marketing to become a twitch partner and whatnot to draw attention to these events.
And then maaaybe have a local event as a final for the online streaming season. Slowly building up fanbase and interrest in the game by doing regular things to follow.

Im sure this would also have flaws and disadvantages but "zomg 1 million dollar out of nowhere!!" and then not offering anything after that.. weird

ZIs.

Big lans as well, but the online tourneys, leages, twitch promotion and cultivation of community, ladders and so on is a priority.

That would be a great idea. With 10k you make all Europe play like damned.

Here's another typical post:

"Quake must remain a hardcore niche-game, QL is the best quake, all we need is a QL 2.0 with updated gfx, ladders, and so on. We don't need no changes, let the motherfuckers burn the playerbase be enough for me to find a server and gtfo. Lol, why spend a single dollar on the game that does not fit my tastes that remained the very same for the last 20+ years.

PS:
fire the sync

PPS:
die, Tim, die

PPS:
Carthage must be destroyed"

reading about the rise and fall of carthage atm, fascinating stuff

share the title, please

Adrian Goldsworthy - The Fall of Carthage

Thank you. Kinda gold's worthy, yep.

Reading In the name of Rome allready.

Instantly remembered some decent ancient war-game from the 90-ties, can't remember the title, you play for the Rome and carrying its shining greatness through the filthy barbarian lands with sword and fire!

They could hold off on the tournaments for a few months and hire a few people to actually work on the game and fix it, then release it or sack a fraction of the cosmetics designers and hire a few people to fix the game.
With a little effort the game could be completely ready and released come spring if anyone at the company had the desire to do it.

Sacrifice is good. I'm actually having a LOT of fun with it.

As with everyone, I had a great prejudice against it.

the main issue is that it's unwatchable

Yes, exactly. We'd need 30-60 seconds delay and a good AI-cam.

and it will remain unwatchable

The main question is why quake champions is not so popular as SC2 CS OW etc?

Small playerbase in compare to others.

Bring CA, it is most popular and easyest gamemode, a lot of players will stick with it find some fun and then they discover Duel TDM etc like Clawz for example.

Give QC as a gift to QL players who donate to prem/pro in QL.

Where is advertising ?

Why no bots ?
In Q3 there was single player !!!!!!!!!!
When i start playing Q3 i play with bots cause i was a kid.
Now newcomer kid will play 1 game and quit.
QC is not easy to start.

The main question is why quake champions is not so popular as SC2 CS OW etc?

The game is still alpha and shit.

for someone who cares:

The tournament schedule should be done in early April. As mentioned in previous streams, there will be a stream with ZeRo4 when it's finalized.


they said this on last comunity stream.

There still hope? mmmm

again, for someone still cares:

http://beat.gl/quake-beat-invitational-announced/

is not a big tourney money, but very good players.
Can't understand if is online or lan...

idk if its online or on lan but it will definitely be played in gaylord like always

they are very stupid, they held a 1 million dollar tournament last year when the game was in really early beta.. well they have to do it this year again, its common sense isnt it. you cant go from 1 million to a couple thousand the next year, haha i cant belive it.

i would like to meet the guy that makes these desicions.. its probably willits late at night sitting in his office coming up with his ideas while his neighbour is fucking his wife.

what a moron

Willits fucks syncerror’s wife. That’s why he’s looking burnt out on streams. Sponge watches the whole thing while Fizzle fucks his wife.
Nothing good can come out of this heresy.

Why does everyone think that they have to make the descision to have a million dollar Tournament and have budget to develop. Maybe they have both? Anyway,, being so rude about people who try to make another Quake is just sick, this is why i hope there will be new Quake players. The old Quake vets (a lot of them) are very toxic and do not have the (QC) ability to move on. Do not blame id Software to try to make a shooter that connects to the demands of the potentional new player base. 500 Angry 30+'ers are not going to make QC a success.

I might agree with you if there were millions of new players and the old players complain, the problem is the opposite, the pros continue to play (someone) while new players drop out.

Is not the problem of old players that the game doesn't like and complain, because if a new player the game like he doesn't care of other people's comments...

how does it connect to the demands of new players if noone is willing to play it ?

also you're very delusional if you think new/young players wouldn't be toxic.
Go try another big multiplayer game and report to us how charming its community is

The old Quake vets (a lot of them) are very toxic and do not have the (QC) ability to move on.

we get the ability as soon as Diabotical is out (2gd we are still waiting for your turn)

ok, where are all these mysterious new players?
where are all these waves and waves of new blood?

btw is rather play a game that has a population of 500 angry 30+ers than something like csgo where you habe alot of players, but try solo q on matchmaking you get 12 year olds that scream on the mic, and all that shit.. is this what you want?

I'm not defending the guy you replied to at all, just for the record.

But... why the fuck would you solo queue when you can just grab four of your friends and queue together? Solo queue is for meant for the whiny little morons that you complained and not much else. Everyone else has these things called 'friends' that they play with. Sort of like playing CTF or TDM with people you like and work well together with... it makes the game that much more enjoyable! =)

Also, CS surfing is fun as fuck, too! :D

The game has not been a success with new players. It's quite ...funny actually, that QC has less players on Steam than QL does. So what they have done so far has not worked.

If QC had a big budget then it wouldn't have been outsourced to a cheap Russian studio that only makes crappy games. That's why QC still has a ton of major technical issues. And if you read the Steam reviews, the vast majority of the casuals, the new players quit because of those technical issues.

So, the problem is the cheap Russians. They got hired because they were cheap, so they cannot "do both". But, what if there was another source of money, so id software can develop the game in-house* or outsource to someone else? Oh, that's the e-sports budget.

Last year it was at least 1.75m. That's 1.4m in prizes + paying staff + flying in and accommodating hundreds from all over the world + plus paying the venue and other costs. Could be even 2m. With that per year the game's technical issues could easily be fixed, by another company. And then, once the game is released and the technical issues have been worked out, put 1m per year to e-sports and keep the rest for continuous technical development.

But they prefer to waste that money into hosting events that have 10k viewers on Twitch (or 20k for five minutes when hosted by a major channel -- obviously favor paid for). That's only maybe 1k potential players watching, because QL had that viewership already. Literally paying $2000 per viewer hah.

The Russian devs (and indirectly e-sports) are going to kill QC on the long run.

*Meaning the a-team of id; the former crysis devs that worked on Doom 4. Not the Syncerror's and Sponge's of the company, so not the wannabe coders that are mappers and web devs.

it's the kind of game that needs to stay under the cover of darkness until it's actually finished.

> it's the kind of game that needs to stay under the cover of darkness until it's actually finished.

http://esreality.com/post/2871012/quake-champ...pressions/

The majority from this site was overall positive.

For one million dollars you can hire between 2-10 competent programmers for a full year (depending on how competent we're talking here). They could have bought the reflex team and have them modify the reflex engine/game for AAA graphics and whatever gameplay they want for a fraction of that money. That would have been an option. As was developing the game in-house. Or putting the money into a marketing fund to spend on the game's release. All of that could have been done. And all of that would have resulted in a more successful project (or at least a better game) than QC is right now. They chose to instead hand out a million dollars basically to random people.

Do not blame id Software to try to make a shooter that connects to the demands of the potentional new player base.

I agree that it's wrong to blame id software for doing that. Because they aren't doing that at all. Most people in here would be perfectly content with QC in its current form if it actually were a decent success (= tens of thousands of people playing at any given moment). But it's not. It has less players than QL ffs. Clearly that would not be the case if id actually tried to "make a shooter that connects to the demands of the potential new player base". It follows that either they did not do that (= getting players was not a priority) or they are incompetent (because if they did try to get new players they failed spectacularly).

"old Quake vets (a lot of them) are very toxic and do not have the (QC) ability to move on"

Except that almost all top QC players are vets.

And pretty much all the strongest ones in particular.

It's such a pathetic argument. "Old quake players don't want to play the game because they suck and their mom's gay"

Except it's been explained a million times in detail why quake champions is a weak, chaotic mess of a game, and none of those points have been refused.

Thats just an opinion, not a fact. I like Quake Champions. I played Years of Q2 and loved the community / clanbase etc. I played Q3 / little Q4 and QL. And from all those Quakes i like Quake Champions the most. I really do not care about what the Old Quake vets think. If you don't want to play don't. The new blood might come after the game is finished and F2P i hope it will be a big succes. This weekend there will be a nice online Tournament with Quakers who did make the switch (K1llsen, Cooller, Cypher, Tox, Spart1e) and i'm going to enjoy. You can connect to the same old toxic QLCA servers and whine about QC my. My advice would be, if you don't like it don't spend your energy on it. The game will never ever be a Quake Live HD remake accept it. Have a good day.

lmao added to my copypasta.txt

Cooller only plays when there's a tournament coming because he doesn't like the game, is that the kind of switch you're talking about ?

We can accept that it will never be a new QL but you also have to accept that this game will never be a success either.
If it was meant to be, then the playerpool would still be significantly large right now despite its flaws, but as you can see, it's not.

Thats just an opinion, not a fact. I like Quake Champions. I played Years of Q2 and loved the community / clanbase etc. I played Q3 / little Q4 and QL. And from all those Quakes i like Quake Champions the most. I really do not care about what the Old Quake vets think. If you don't want to play don't. The new blood might come after the game is finished and F2P i hope it will be a big succes. This weekend there will be a nice online Tournament with Quakers who did make the switch (K1llsen, Cooller, Cypher, Tox, Spart1e) and i'm going to enjoy. You can connect to the same old toxic QLCA servers and whine about QC my. My advice would be, if you don't like it don't spend your energy on it. The game will never ever be a Quake Live HD remake accept it. Have a good day.

You must be trolling. You talk down to old quake players because of how they're stuck in their ways, don't want QC to be a success and they shouldn't blame id software for appealing to new players, and simultaneously you defend last QCon's prize pool and declare how excited you are for the upcoming tournaments with the same players we've seen for the last ten years.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? The reason the game is as dead as a doorknob is this precise catering to the competitive side. It does nothing to attract new players, increase sales or whatever. I guess you (like many other people) have this childish fantasy that big tournaments are the main thing to attract viewers and these viewers then magically transform into players. Which is of course nothing but a load of old shite. The only people who care about tournaments are the old vets (like you) and maybe 15% of the existing playerbase with a competitive interest. People who do not and have not played the game will hardly ever watch a tournament match or install the game after doing so. They don't care. The 10k people who watched QCon 2018 were the same 10k people who watched QCon 2017 (QL tournament with < 5% the prize pool).
This means: If id's priority is increasing the playerbase (which it fucking should be), any money spent on competition is money flushed down the toilet. It doesn't do anything useful. Except maybe a handful of vets on ESR will get mad if there's not at least a handful of tournaments (those with the competition-matters illusion, like you). Of course the vets who aren't idiots will stop being mad the instant id makes a statement like "we considered announcing a million dollar tournament, but then we realized that would be fucking retarded so we spent that money on fixing technical issues, improving the experience for new players, and marketing instead". And the vets on ESR are currently mad anyway. Not because the game's bad (which it might be, but the concept isn't too awful tbh). I mean, who would really care about champions and abilities and all these details if the concept worked (= is well executed and the game's good from a technical perspective) and the game had 60'000 people playing it at any given moment? Nobody, or at least nobody substantial compared to the amount of people playing. But the whole thing doesn't work. It's not well executed both from a technical and gameplay perspective (fundamental aspects change every month FFS). And the game's dead. Wasting literal millions on useless nonsense like hiring an esports manager and prize money is one of the reasons why this is so.

Don't know about Cooller but what i do know is that i can enjoy those players play a Quake Champions tournament. And we might see a few other big tournaments (Quakecon, Dreamhack and maybe others). In Quake live the only thing you see is 100 of the same vets ready with their LG on the bridge in DM6.. Have fun :)

lol and how is it any different now ?

you see the exact same players in the same rare tournaments organised...and dm6 is still in the mappool

you also might want to use the "Reply" function

its interesting that these idiots copypasting the same shit over and over can never find the reply button

probably a hivemind thing

Yes, you said that right. We see players in a tournament. In QL there are no tournaments to see. And no players that participate. Do you understand the diffrence?
The game is still in EA, and we are happy with all Tournaments there are and there are actually plenty. Dm6 is called Blood Covenant and is graphics wise 130430x times better.. the thing is, are you on every forum of every game you don't like and dump your tiny opinion there? This is the QC forum, why do you visit the forum of a game you don't like? It's not like SyncError will visit this forum and sees your post and thinks by himself. Damn that ScanX is a visionary, i have to make another Quake Live HD remake.

Who si the that "we" you keep mentioning? :)

With we i mean the 10+ ;) people who actually like Quake Champions.

WE got ot the point when there are more ppl playing QL + there are comps, russian team comps, there even was 125 fps duel.

Why do you keep bringing QL up ?
Did you see me say once that they should still focus on QL and keep it going ?

I'm not even saying the game is bad per se (although Sacrifice is fckin shit), I'm just saying that the genre is dead for now and that it won't be a success as an esport.
Do YOU see the difference ??

You say there are plenty of tournaments...erm...where ?
There has been nothing worthy since Dreamhack in early december.

Also wow at that amazing logic of yours, when someone doesn't like something he shouldn't post his opinion about it ?
That's even more laughable than you using the fact that dm6's name changed as an argument to make you believe it's a completely different map :D

However, congrats on finding the Reply button.