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Are you laughing at the fact that the mere question of asking for a WMO replacement is laughable?

yes, we've asked for years and years and years and still nothing :(

It's 2018 for god's sake.

Point being?

None.

It's still a good mouse, so is the IE 3.0. Latest gen mice with 3310 and 3360/66 sensors have finally triumphed over the classic microsoft mice. The accuracy and snappiness of the newer ones is really noticable compared to the mlt04, even when the latter is overclocked to 1khz+.

Before I would say the MLT04 was still competing with what was coming out but nowadays I think it finally got obselete.

I still use my IE 3.0 @ 1khz from time to time just because the shape is great & comfy, I play well with it and would still say it's top tier, but when going back to a 3366 sensor it becomes apparant immediatly that I was handicapping myself with something slower.

Slower? You are having a placebo effect.
New mice have just better tracking at fast movements. Thats it.
You cant feel a difference between 125hz - 1000hz

You cant feel a difference between 125hz - 1000hz

125hz means 125 updates for every 1000ms (1s), in other words 8ms update rate. if you are using a 125hz mouse, you can clearly see the delay even by just moving the cursor around on the desktop - I know I have done it.
so you're either clueless or you have very low standards. 500hz is bare minimum, been for a while.

prove your point with a reaction time tool and show that you are actually 7ms faster with 1000hz vs 125hz xD

500hz are used for a different reason. WMO/IE 3.0 tracks better at 500hz

you can't prove it with a reaction time tool, since the variance(mostly due to being human) you get there is too large. you would have to do thousands of clicks to have any statistically significant data.
I stopped playing quake a long time ago, I don't care to prove anything, especially something common knowledge. that's just how the devices work. look it up if you care.

a different reason? it is the exact reason. 8ms response time vs. 2ms response time - obviously the tracking will improve.

1ms master race!

you wrote the reason yourself why 8ms vs 2ms response time is unimportant but you still dont understand.
Human lag is just too big. Those 6-7ms just dont matter at all.

... what. no I didn't.

you seem unable to understand the difference between a) having variance on your reaction time vs. b) having a low response delay on a tracking device.

im not speaking about variance. Im speaking about human lag. The average reaction time is 284 milliseconds for humans. So your 6-7ms are a huge improvement.... lololololol. The difference is soooo huge it will make you beat every pro player who still uses a 125hz mouse.... lololololol

variance in human reaction time, obviously, since it's not constant - because we're human. the average reaction time is closer to 200-220 for healthy individuals. quake players usually get anywhere between 140 and 200 on tests.

you are behaving like a child. you are proving my point that you still do not understand the difference between that, and a response time of a tracking device. we are talking about tracking movement, sending data 500 or 1000 times per second. we are not talking about a single mouse button click, where 7ms is not an enormous deal, but in some cases could mean that you take first shot, it's still an advantage.

I'm done talking about this topic, if you still don't get it, that's not my problem.

I took those 284ms average reaction time directly from a reaction tool statistics so...

if you are using a 125hz mouse, you can clearly see the delay even by just moving the cursor around on the desktop - I know I have done it.

You was speaking about responsitiv not tracking.
500hz influences tracking only on old mice like wmo/IE3. 0. All new mice are using a 16bit data path so a change in USB overclocking doesnt have any effect at all. Look at esreality mousescore.

Lets say that over a time of time of 32ms you move your mouse 100 pixels accross the screen.

The 125hz mouse will register as landing in 4 distinct positions (or pixels) over that time because its 0.008 seconds between positions.

The 1000hz mouse will register as landing at 32 distinct positions within that time.

This means it is more accurate, that it can change direction faster. That even if you want to argue is not a real world difference, it still has a different feeling to it.

More so it depends on the resolution and sensitivity you use. WMO 500hz I cant use the thing because I am high resolution and high sensitivity. It skips like crazy. Imagine trying to use 500dpi at 125hz thats a bad mouse!

Depends on mouse and person. And ye, resolution as well.

I was hitting fucking ridiculous stuff with MX300 @ 125 Hz a few years prior.

1- everyone who's not sick used wmo at 500-1000 hz, so using 125 hz wmo as an argument is really grasping at straws.

2-most pro players in 2018 are using their mices set to 400 dpi. So using "high sens" as an argument is, again, grasping at straws.

If you intend to play at 400 dpi and with typical pro player sensitivities- around 20-40 cm/360, the mlt04 is still king.

True. I mean to reply to the guy who said:

"You cant feel a difference between 125hz - 1000hz"

But I guess I clicked the wrong post on reply.

20-40cm is probably fine - Im probably only 15cm if that and also 1920*1080 and also 144hz. All I know is it skips in situations a higher dpi mouse can handle, its why its in my draw now.

Basically the higher res, higher sens, lower dpi and lower Hz you go the closer you are to getting skipping effects on any mouse.

Edit: For reference I use 1.25sens @ 3200dpi with 112.5fov, so higher than most people I think.

WMO i need about 8 sens to feel the same. It was tolerable at 500hz, but completely stuffed at 125. All problems gone as soon as I use atleast 800dpi tho.

No it's unfortunately not king, it has a huge flaw in shape of a speed cap at around 1,55 m/sec and negative acceleration until 2,1 m/sec malfunction speed.
This is where 3366 got almost the same snappiness and raw feel but hugely advanced malfunction speed at higher dpi.

Not at 500/1000hz.

You'd need something asinine like 50 cm/360 to even reach the malfunction speed, at which point you'd just have light negative acceleration instead of the sensor completely spazzing out like in modern mices.

Malfunction speed was never an issue with all the pros that rocked and loved the wmo.

Of course it is
ESR Mousescore WMO

and of course it was an issue for low sens pro's as well. The found workarounds like accel or worse tmemorizing the malfunction speed to never hit it, but both solutions are not sensible.

I have used IE30/IME/WMO for many years, please don't preach me your opinionated gospel, thanks :)

You're the one preaching your misinformed hate, i ain't preaching shit.

Sensor malfunction isn't a thing most people would experience if overclocked. You don't seem to have ever grasped a wmo.

>You're the one preaching your misinformed hate, i ain't preaching shit.
Yes you are. "misinformed hate" ok mr. troll head xDD

>Sensor malfunction isn't a thing most people would experience if overclocked. You don't seem to have ever grasped a wmo.

either you did not even read what I wrote, are seriously stupid or your nostalgia glasses are wayy too thick to come in contaxct with reality anymore... I played for fucking years with WMO, went from mid sens to low sens (more than 30 cm/360), harshly encountered the neg. accel and malfunction speed. that's when I switched to salmosa, which was inferior sensor performance wise, but still never looked back.

nowadays 3366 is where it's at

But good for you to be perfectly fine with WMO and low sens! I seriously like the mouse, but that was not the question at hand was it? The question was why the pro's switched.

You aren't even reading what i write, but still you rage and keep spraying your bullshits around.

Yeah, i 100% believe you are able to feel malfunction speed when people like tox can't.

And by the way, i left the wmo a long time ago. The sensor is excellent, but the feet, cord, buttons, and drivers are unbearable. But go ahead, keep wanking

tox uses ~25cm/360 which isn't low sens moron. you have no clue what you're talking about, I'm done here

You're the clueless moron, you don't even know what kind of sens is required to make the wmo malfunction and pretend to know more than pro players. Shut the fuck up kid, go buy some razer thing.

you are retarded, I am sorry I wasted my time

You're not sorry about anything, since your time is worthless anyway

you are projecting.
that is what retards do when they are clueless, Implying what other people feel and think to protect their false narrative and oh so fragile egos.

Do you even read the crap you write? You sound like a 35 year old virgin spewing bile from his mommy's basement

Well, ~25 cm/360° is certainly not enough for that.

Indeed

No placebo effect. The 3360 sensor is more repsonsive @ 1khz, feels more accurate and snappier than the MLT04.

You see and feel a notable difference between 125 and 1000hz purely by moving the cursor on the desktop as Lacceh stated before.

Also the buttons are more repsonsive and have better switches most of the cases whereas the IMO/WMO/IE3.0 had some that gave away pretty quickly or degraded in a fast manner.

Love the omrons in the G303/403 for instance, feel tactile and of high quality.

more accurate lolololol

my wmo is still working (8 years using) and my IE 3.0 buttons died just 1 year ago (althought switching omrons is an easy task). So 8-10 years is very good for a 10€ & 30€ mouse!
All other mice died after about 2-3 years (razor, logitech and some more)

Sure, I love my IE 3.0 it's great. It comes close to my G403 which I rank as the best mouse to my experience.

what about something inbetween ? like EC1-A ?

Haven't tried, hope to get my hands on one in the future, or a EC2-b.

dude just get one and compare for yourself instead of making an ass out of yourself with that ignorant stance

I did ;)
I dont make unjustified assumptions!

Never had a mouse die on me tbh, changed some cords every now and then but that's it.

because you have never smashed it on the desk repeatedly because of overwhelming overwelming disgust of what just happened....

Oh you sure can. I can tell the difference a LOT by 500hz compared to 125hz.

However, at least on the WMO, 500 to 1000hz makes no difference, which is why I kept it to 1000hz, im scared to somehow fry it.

are you speaking about tracking or generally mouse responsive?

I don't know, isn't it the same thing?

You can see the cursor jumping from position to position on the screen when it's at 125hz. Doesn't happen at 500hz.

Also, why bother with high fps or 240hz monitors when our eyes can only see 30 fps anyways???

Joke aside, there is a massive difference between 125hz and 1000hz.
As soon as I pick up an old mouse I can see the pointer being sluggish and warping around even in windows, it's awful.

7ms is also a big difference, even 4ms input lag monitors feel like crap next to the 1ms ones.

The truth is the WMO is an overrated piece of shit with countless flaws and the only reason it ever made it to people's homes is its low price tag.

So fox, tox, stermy, cypher, rapha and many more couldnt afford a better mouse for years? xD

I know many of them changed to new mice and changed back to wmo/IE3.0. Most likely due to being forced to sell the new mouse or they wont be able pay their rents or sth like that xD

400dpi feels rougher but its still superior in gaming.

No I think the reason they kept it for so long is because the shape feels best to them and that's a fair enough reason but from a technical point of view, it was a piece of garbage even 10 years ago.

heretic

"400dpi feels rougher but its still superior in gaming."

"feels" -> LOL
nice placebo feeling.


WMO has never been that great.
if you need/want that shape, then use it.

there are better mice out there, from the last 15 years.

- get the prefered shape (which can be WMO for you, which is fully ok)
- flawless sensor
- get gud (WMO wont make you good within a day, i know thats shocking for all the WMO lovers)
- dont buy stuff, because its hyped for nothing. (=WMO)

you wanna say 400dpi isnt less precise than 1600dpi? lololol

- dont buy stuff, because its hyped for nothing. (=WMO)

wmo hype lolololol

it looks like there is another marketing victim... over 9000 dpi must have....

wmo/IE3.0 isnt just shape but you cant know it if you've never played with one of these.

iam using 800dpi ;-)

wmo feels nothing special. the shape is 2chunky.

youre just a victim, who uses stuff because person XYZ is using it too.

Joke aside, there is a massive difference between 125hz and 1000hz.
As soon as I pick up an old mouse I can see the pointer being sluggish and warping around even in windows, it's awful.

that's what I said above. it's 2018 and ppl are still technical illiterates.

No LCD has real 1 ms, that's just a marketing gimmick tho. 9,5-10 ms MEASURED input lag is considered awesome (LG 24GM77, BenQ 2411 series for example).

And no, if you won't go above a certain resolution and below (or above) a certain sensitivity, the STMicroelectronics MLT04 sensor (with raised polling rate) is more than capable, even today - and still has one of the best raw sensor feel, if you stay within the resolution-sens specifications.

You're the first person i hear saying modern 3366 sensors are better than the mlt04. About as good as? Sure. But better, no.

Nothing STILL feels as crisp and reactive and reliable as 9000 fps mlt 04.

Modern sensors are good enough to more than justify the jump from wmo to modern mouses.

The sensor was the only good thing in the wmo: stiff cable, plastic feet, heavily lagged microswitches, bad scroll wheel, no side buttons (altough for some it's a matter of preference.)

And even the sensor had the HEAVY limitations of beig stuck at 400 dpi and most importantly to require foreign drivers to be overclocked.

All of those side reasons are why everyone moved over.

But mlt04 STILL is the best feeling mouse sensor to date.

That's the reason pro players clinged to it until 2016-2017, even well after mouses with similar shape size and weight to wmo had been released.

Sure, I'd use my IE 3.0 if all the other features you mentioned were equally good as modern mice, but they aren't and the 3366 feels just as good and to my opinion it's also slightly more responsive.

The raw tracking of the MLT04 has it's charm and still is top tier, just the 107g and delayed buttons on the IE 3.0 make it lose the #1 spot for me. Also using the 400-500 dpi on a 1080p desktop just feels awkward and I don't like tampering with windows sensitivity.

Whats the fucking difference with the 3366 one in practice? I may need to buy a new mouse just to check what the fuzz is about.

This guy says saying MLT04 is better than modern mouses is ridiculous:

I chuckle whenever someone describes a sensor as 'raw'..

But I understand what you mean. The way the sensor feels and behaves is due to certain attributes, but it has been equaled/surpassed by the 3360 and its variants. Give the 3360 a try if you haven't yet, though the shape still does not have a true alternative. It also doesn't help that the 3360 is considered a premium sensor meaning brands will always put it in a mouse that has side buttons and other extras, so if you are looking for a simple mouse without side buttons but with a 3360 then you're out of luck and shouldn't be expecting it to change any time soon. If you can play with the Kinzu shape then this is an option: https://dreammachines.io/en/dm3mini
Though last I heard it had some build quality issues, you'd have to look around on the forums for updates.
There's a decent chance the Ninox Astrum will be what you're looking for, but we won't know until it is released and the community here has put it through trial.

The shape of the WMO is great especially if you play games like Quake, but if you want a mouse for more than just Quake then there's a number of reasons why you should actually consider mice that have side buttons where the shape works for you. The DM1 Pro S and Nixeus Revel are good options; the Revel is closer to the WMO in terms of dimensions. What I say comes from tons of trial and error, I was in a not too different place as you are and I didn't really want to compromise, but here I am today satisfied with a DM1 Pro S. It's not a WMO, it's different, but it's everything I look for in a package that suits me.

I am the only one who thinks that these sensitivities and fovs are completely wrong?

cant usb hidusbf anymore on events. The mouse companys got mad at people using BETTER stuff then they produce

I think thats the only reason why people switched over to new mice. And ofc sponsors....

https://www.logitechg.com/en-au/product/moba-gaming-mouse-g302

This was like $32 (like $25 usd)

I think its a little smaller than wmo, and atleast as accurate.

Or there is g303 which I guess has a better sensor.

I used WMO which the dpi is too small, then I used DA which the shape is just borderline to big in my hand. Now I use this 302 thing its nice. Shape is weird for the first day but after you get used to it you may realise its small size lets you do epic claw grip and can make tiny adjustments just with ur fingers.

>side buttons
I can't do this.

U can do it m8, I believe in you, small steps.

Yea for sure they can be annoying. On Deathadder the sidebuttons broke so I ripped them out and then realised I could hold the mouse better now.

But, for this 302 i guess they put some thought into that. The side buttons are more or less on the seam between side and top of mouse so my thumb sits below them nicely, ofc idk how other people might try to hold it so anybody's guess if thats a problem for some.

I heard finalmouse phantom is pretty good..

No op, Cypher isn't using wmo anymore. He's using a zowie fk2.

He had to switch after the wmo betrayed him on lan for the last time last year.

Now it's months that he's on the zowie fk2, and his aim seems ok.

What mouse is Rapha rocking now if he is not using the revered WMO?

pros:
+ sensor
+ lift-off mostly perfect
+ amazing shapes
+ durability

cons:
- no native 500/1000 Hz
- low dpi
- malfunction speed < 3m/sec

ok so what replaces a WMO today?

Hopefully no side buttons. Those are gay.

Hopefully some chinese guy that sells you a modified WMO with better sensor and cable.

Im also looking for someone selling WMO mods, I gave up on an actual replacement. Now im even doubting a more modern sensor is better. Some say the WMO sensor is "more raw" than the current ones.

Using 400dpi in 2018 LUL

What's the problem?

On a 1080 p monitor, you need to throw the mouse to the other side of the room to cross the screen with the cursor. You could increase the mouse cursor sensitivity in windows, but that shouldn't be tampered with

I use sens 3.15 with the slider set to 9 in windows, with some accel, works fine.. where is the problem at?

There is no problem in changing win sensitivity nowadays as all games use raw mouse input.

it was an issue about 10 years ago, with bad input implementations in games, like with directInput....

that idiot is giving out false information in every post, just ignore him

Says the guy that doesn't know how to recognize bots from real players

You says somuchbullshit about wmo and other technological issues you have 0 credibility.

Like in this case. All pros in all competitive games keep windows at 6, but virgin crea knows better

QC doesn't use raw input, hehe.

On a 1080 p monitor, you need to throw the mouse to the other side of the room to cross the screen with the cursor. You could increase the mouse cursor sensitivity in windows, but that shouldn't be tampered with

dpi matters guys, proof :

https://pyrolistical.github.io/overwatch-dpi-tool/

that's why i'm using 1600dpi sens 1 (26cm) instead of 400dpi sens 4 (26cm, ofc)

That's for overwatch tho.

i tried it myself, in QL, and i clearly see pixel skipping with very small mouse's movements @ 400dpi sens 4

and on the other hand, 0 pixel skipping at 1600dpi sens 1

I would think It can mostly be applied to pretty much any fps game.

It seems semi accurate.

For example:
DPI 400
FOV 112
Sens 8 -which I would need to use if 400dpi.
(and Im guessing this is at 125hz?)
Fail

It says thats a fail - And I would agree because Ive tried it previously.

Sens 3 is a pass at lower resolutions
Sens 2 is a pass at all resolutions

My actual settings
DPI 3200
FOV 112
Sense 1.25 - Pass

I cant see it takes any account of Hz tho. If you double the Hz then the mouse would only move half as many pixels per snapshot, so if you go from 125 to 1000hz I would guess you can get much higher sensitivitys without fail.

Well, when I enter my settings that is 3.15 sens, 0.15 accel I think, whatever, I tried the other day, for 1080 it wasn't red, so I should be fine? theoretically.

What makes you think it would be different in QL or QC?
OW uses Raw Input as well, you know.

Anyone who doubts that DPI is of no significance, just fire up QL and type "cg_fov 1". You will see your crosshair skip the pixels.

Soon, you will realise higher DPI is, indeed, more than just 'hype'.
The whole "400 dpi is enough! Nobody needs more, ever!!" is a relic from 1999, and utter bullshit in 2018.

If I could play at a billion CPI (with no additional input lag), I would.
Sadly, I'm confined to under 2100 CPI with the 3360 sensor, and even lower (below 1800) with its 'enhanced' twins.

The only sensor that is rumoured not to add input lag (smoothing) at any CPI step, is Logitech's "Hero" sensor.
But I find it to be less snappy than the 3360 (and its twins) - even at CPI steps below 2100.

So, either the rumours about the Hero sensor being free of smoothing are untrue. Or I am experiencing some placebo effect with it.
That said, the Hero sensor is amazing when it comes to tracking on virtually any surface.

you mentioned the keyword: placebo

nobody plays with cg_fov 1... who cares?

and again, i entered my settings, and according to that site, it's safe to play with 400 dpi, sens 3.15 at 1080p

are you able to feel lack of dpi in actual realistic settings? thats what matters

why should i compromise the shape of the mouse i love holding for ages only to get a better sensor that has no actual improvement ingame?

Wont really make a lot of difference in a game like quake where it's mostly just tracking aim and it doesn't matter much what part of the body you hit. Also most fights aren't at such a distance were you sometimes have to hit unzoomed pixel rails. Even then it wouldn't make a difference, maybe like 1/100 times you'll miss a shot because of it, but then again you could've just missed that shot with 1600.

400 dpi sucks for browsing and desktop. But ingame it'll suffice still and lots of people still use it without problem. Hell, even the best aimers use 400 dpi and have everyone drool over their shots 24/7. Don't let it make you stress out.

The fov 1 test was suggested so you can see that DPI actually does something in game.

Sure, for Quake and other games where your target never gets small, you are fine @ 400 DPI.

I'm just fed up with the whole "Nobody ever needs more than 400 DPI" myth that is being repeated over and over all over gaming forums by people who think themselves to give informed advice.

400 DPI is fine for Quake (except from maybe The Longest Yard, unless you're a zoom newb).

People saying that 400 dpi isn't enough and it works only for Quake, but guess what, it's by far the most common dpi among CS:GO pros.

https://prosettings.net/cs-go-pro-settings-gear-list/

This was discussed a lot in the past and already solved.

3D engines do not calculate turning in pixels but in fractions of degrees.

So the argument is that more dpi, or in other words more steps per inch movement on the mousepad means more precision.
Which is true.
But then there is a leap where it is suggested because of this fact, more always means better. That's a fallacy, more precision is not necessarily better. It feels different. Same goes for 500Hz vs. 1000Hz polling rate.

You would need extremely high screen resolution to even detect an imprecision, like a so-called 'pixel skip'.
In reality, the players are moving while aiming, the turns are measured in degree and the result is then printed on screen in a defined resolution, which is normally 1080p or lower. In that scenario, imprecision does not occur with 400 dpi in an observable way.

There are differences but the first thing to know is that not everyone has the same ability to feel stuff. Some will feel even the slightest innacuracy while some wont even if there is a ton.

Also you can feel innacuracy more if :
+you are not moving (WASD)
+you are zooming in
+you move your crosshair slowly to catch a pixel / fixed angle rail.

But the most important is that ppl are mostly unable to feel it, and i know what im talking about, i found a massive bug in Q2 engine few years ago, something that totaly breaks the most basic movements, I detected it in my first 5 seconds of playing Q2 few years ago. Yet on the internet there was only one guy who made a thread about it while Q2 is 20+ years old. The thread had like 3 answers. Of which only one guy understood the bug. Yet its extemly easy for me to detect it, to the point i feel it breaks the game and i have a hard time enjoying moving in this game (i play lot of Q3/QL defrag). And none of the new clients/engine updates are fixing this massive bug.

what bug?

Walking foward, then backward repearedly makes you drift to the side

Can using smaller non standard view sizes create imprecisions of sorts?

For instance, using cg_viewsize 90

pixel skipping is influenced by dpi sens and resolution, cs players usually use low res and very low sens, so 400dpi can be enough with those settings

I don't consider the FK2 as a replacement for a WMO. Their shapes are too different. The FK2/Steelseries mouses are all flatter in the front half than the WMO, which make a big difference in feel to me.

But there are a ton of mouses with good sensors now, so if you can find a shape/weight/cord/LOD/glide/clicks that you like, there's no need for a WMO. I just happen to think that the WMO is still perfect in all those extra categories.

Well we have concluded that there isn't a need for a better sensor either, so what's the point.

125hz 400dpi in 2018 LUL

To complement my previous post, changing to 500hz is a pain in the ass now, so not really recommended to use a mouse like that in live events. Most likely you'd end up playing with the sensor performing at 125hz and negative accel, while the opponent just uses a better sensor. Just why.

Then, 400dpi for desktop usage would require to increase windows sens, which makes the mouse skip a lot. Personally for work I like 1600dpi with the default Windows sens, then 800dpi for playing, but if I were super pro I would use only 800dpi everywhere in order to get used to that feeling.

Speaking of which, none of you noobs have talked about that different dpis make the mouse feel differently, as if they had different acceleration or responsiveness. Try that yourself: open QC, play with your usual dpi and then lower it by half, adjust sens accordingly, and see that the mouse feels slower. In a fast paced game like Quake it's nice having 800dpi at 1080p: it just feels better. That applies to all games: the vast majority of Quakers plays and does other stuff too, so overall performance ends up being as crucial as performance in Quake, and in PUBG no one would use 400dpi to loot using the menus haha. On the other hand, in CS a lot of people use lower resolutions (not the case in Quake anymore) and the game is slower: in there 400dpi feels nice, if not nicer than 800. I'd say it's quite obvious that the CS pros that stayed with the older mice only plug it in to play CS but use another for everything else.

Also, everything else about the WMO is not good, other than its godly shape. The cord sucks hard and is difficult to replace, its mouse wheel sucks, its feet suck. The coating gets nasty, the sensor placement could be a bit higher, the response time is quite slow even at 1000hz. All of those are small disadvantages against say a Zowie mouse, with its user being able to play faster than you at the same sens/precision.

So, in 2018 if you find a decent shape then just use that instead of a WMO, because in 9/10 factors the new mouse will be better. Or if you can get a frankenmouse then that's the 10/10, to use the perfect WMO shape with the added benefits of newer mice.

edit: To make myself clear, in the 2000s the WMO was godly for Quake, other than its awful cord. It just had a smooth feel to it when at 500/1000hz, while still being nimble. But in 2018 it's just not up to the task anymore. A white FK2 or a white EC2A are just better mice for QC than a WMO.

Yeah I guess for the pros it makes sense. Me personally I don't play QC so I dont care about that. Also I will not be going to any live events, so I dont care about that neither. Also windows sens is irrelevant in-game.. so yeah, I will stay WMO.

So you are going to purposely use a mouse that either severely skips in Windows or is super slow in it? Don't you work using the PC?

Or are you going to go through the hassle of having a second mouse available sitting on the desk, that when you aren't paid to play or test stuff?

You aren't married to a mouse, you know. And for 99.9% of people that play Quake, how a mouse behaves in Microsoft Word and Excel matters way more than how it is for Quake Live (or should matter more).

He's not here for discussions or suggestions. His brain is already engraved with sticking to the WMO, and now is looking for statements that fit his delusion.

Buttons, scroll, cable, response time/latency, and polling rate have all been better on other mice for years, and the WMO had 2 good things left about it: shape and sensor, out of which the sensor has recently been surpassed. I know the shape and weight combo is great, but as of 2018 there's a number of other decent options, even if considered purely for in-game performance. All it takes is a little bit of adjustment.

It is his call though, I don't tell anyone how to live or make their choices, I can only make suggestions. If he's going to ask questions yet stick to his own answers, that just brings about an amusing side of his personality :)

I use the mouse in windows on slider position 8 and no smoothing in 1080p monitor perfectly fine, and I play in quake perfectly fine, I really dont get what your problem is.

Not all games use direct input, thats the problem with not using 6/11 notch. 6/11 notch is 1:1 dpi to pixels but anything else is not.

True it does not matter, unless you use in_mouse 1 in QL, or if u play QC there is no direct input so it does matter.

Just in general if you play many differernt random games you will come across some without direct input, hence you just want to be 6/11 so there is no problems there.

i use in_mouse 2 which means it doesnt matter

i dont play any games outside of ql

Bingo

You get different speeds with different DPI. Its why I dont need any accel because I have 3200dpi and the mouse really has some speed to it, and the lower dpi you take it the less speed it has.

Like to adjust dpi or hz is changing how many pixels fly past the sensor.

For example 400dpi and move an inch in 1 second, then 400pixels fly past the sensor. Now go 800dpi and 800pixels fly past the sensor, but does the mouse know the difference?, or does it just internally behave as if it is moving twice as fast. I think the latter.

Also when you double the Hz say going from 500 to 1000hz so now the mouse is only moving half as far point to point, but does the mouse know this or simply behave as if it is moving at half the speed but twice as often, again I think the latter.