Yet nobody will

*yawn*

Lol @ going into a QC forum thread just to let us know you don't care. Try harder please.

How much are Bethesda paying you to shill for their product on here?

How original, never heard that one before.

Wasn't it already free to play? Without the Champions Pack? We could literally go back to 2016-2017 and look at interviews saying "It is FREE TO PLAY!!! with the exception of Champions". Then Christmas of 2017, we get "Guess what guys, announcement! QC is FREE TO PLAY!!! with the exception of Champions pack!!!". And once more, they do the same thing.

Can anyone else guess what the big announcement of 2019 is?

You had to pay something like 4€ for the game with only a couple of champions until now. It was free for a short while in June and maybe also last year for a short while. But before they decided again to make it free you had to pay for it even just for the basic pack.

couldn't they make ql free to play instead?

That would take away 75% of the players from QC. They can't risk that shit.

)

as if

Well, we know who wants to assert themselves at all costs would stay with QC, because all that random crap that's going on mid-game makes it much easier. )

Yeah so that's why 75% of them would go to QL if it were free, that makes so much sense.

I know, but thanks for the approval.

You don't make any sense and think your wet dreams are a reality. QL isn't going to come back to life and QC players aren't going to QL.

I know, because one of my wet dreams is you stop being french. : D

You need to get a life then.

You are right. I know deep down that you're way too accustomed to the taste of frog meat and you can't let it go - but having a faint hope is free.

If you really think about it from a business perspective it doesn't make sense to do so.

They're making QC free because they realise that not many people buy the game and making it free should potentially attract more players, just like the big peak they had in June when they made it free. What they're counting on is people actually spending money inside the game for in game currency to buy stuff like characters, skins and whatnot.

Most new free-to-play games give the ability to spend money in game to unlock stuff, it's a known business model which can be more sustainable and more profitable than trying to sell the game itself at a one-off price.

On the other hand for QL there is no other potential source of income once players have the game as there is nothing to buy inside the game, so they can only make money from selling the game itself. They could potentially make QL free just to be nice, but commercially it doesn't make any sense - even though one could argue that not many new players will buy the game at this stage.

thx mr obvious

Not so obvious when people are asking why it's not free.

Why do you think people aren't buying Quake Champions?

Hint: It's trash.

Many people bought the game actually considering how clunky it is and considering quake doesn't appeal to a mass audience. But id had higher sales targets which didn't get reached.

Also, how do you know a game is trash before buying it if you didn't play in the early beta?

It's trash compared to any previous Quake game.

And if I made a game and would sell as much as Quake Champions, that would be an achievement, for an Bethesda/id Software game the sales are downright terrible.

The niche does not really matter, it has Quake in the name, I guarantee you it sold less than any other Quake before and there's other niche games that sell crap loads, just take a look at the anime interactive story games (or how they are classified), they sell a shit ton, and you're telling me that's not niche.

The reality is Quake Champions alienated even the core Quake fans, that's the problem, now they expect to attract new players with the worst Quake of them all, good luck.

How do you explain that it currently has more average players than QL ever had then?

Well QL is a shittier Q3A which is pushing 20 years. Not many people bought or played QL because they already had Q3A which was already on decline at the point when id software smartly decided to split the player base even more by introducing Quake Zero/Live.

Quake Champions is a new thing, naturally there will be interest in a new game, even from outside the Quake community, but the player retention is non existent as it is evident.

Whilst Quake Champions is a complete and utter garbage Quake game, it might be interesting to some people who never played a Quake game before, because it's 2018 and Overwatch and games like that are the new best thing apparently.

Considering id software decided to change Quake with all the garbage MOBA/Champion features to appeal to the masses of 2017/18, they really haven't done a great job with that either, as the player numbers are still bottom, when compared to other games that aren't Quake, because comparing this to Quake makes no sense at all, except that it shares the name and some weapons and characters, it plays completely differently.

It's amazing that many people still have a passion and play Q3A 20 years on. Quake Champions is struggling to last a single year in comparison and I doubt it'll even be remembered after 5 years

well look at CS:GO. That is fundamentally not that much different from older CS games (not talking about the really early CS days with bunnyhopping QW style)

Also starcraft / chesss.

Exactly - spot on.

Haha, so not true.

Any stats or facts to demonstrate otherwise?

Any stats or facts to demonstrate yours? And not Steam charts ofc, because QL had its own launcher for like 6 years.

You said that you played QL from the beginning. I wonder how can't you remember the super long queues and the shitton of servers a bit later on, almost always full with people in various game modes.

Steam charts is the stats we have and they speak for themselves. Don't pretend QL had thousands of players connected at the same time when it was the launcher. It reached a bigger audience when going on steam.

You know, I think you lied about playing QL since the beginning to sound more credible.

I don't have to lie about that to make my point. Who fucking cares if I played it since yesterday or since the beginning, it doesn't change fuck all. Check qlstats or whatever and you'll have your answer.

"Who fucking cares if I played it since yesterday or since the beginning, it doesn't change fuck all"

Ha!

Seems I was right.

Unfortunately not. If you look up my comments from 2010 on this site you'll see that I'm playing and commenting about QL.

Damn I almost sound like you when I say I've been playing the game for ages. Hopefully I fall under the banner of "dedicated and invested" lmao

Closed beta started in 2008, went into open beta in February 2009 - leaving that state in August 2010.

Then you just have convenient memory problems remembering how well-populated (for a Quake game) it was.

Can't remember if I played the beta, and don't really care either way to be honest.

In any case, you have no figures to suggest the game was more popular than QC on release, if you do find such figures feel free to let us know.

"Can't remember if I played the beta, and don't really care either way to be honest"

Ye, that's obvious after reading your comments on Quakes and considering the fact that you can't even remember whether you played it or not.


The initial statement - that QC has more players than QL ever had (which is laughable) - was yours, so it's your duty the prove it right - which you can't, since QL had the majority of its lifetime on its own launcher.

LOL.

Unlike you I sometimes take long breaks away from gaming and do things IRL (you should try that sometimes by the way), and gaming to me is not a lifestyle. So when asked if I played a pre-beta or beta or just release of a game that came out 8-10 years ago, it's really not something I try hard to remember.

If I look at the stats we have available though of both games going live on steam, one clearly has more players especially 1 year after it's release as opposed to just the month of its release. Yes there are other factors, but the observation is still correct if we look at both steam releases.

Sorry about QL dying mate, get better soon.

"Unlike you I sometimes take long breaks away from gaming and do things IRL"

Again, (false) assumptions. Seems that's all you have, but it's not surprising one bit.


How convenient for you to ignore the facts, that

1) QL is a 10 year old game, which is basically a revamp of a 20 year old one, which was already niche when it came out
2) QL had the majority of its life cycle on a web browser, later on on its own launcher

Ignorance is bliss, they used to say.

I don't need your shitty attempts on using irony, when you are taking important / deciding factors out of your equations to better suit your laughable stance in the matter.

The good job you doing on QC must have clouded your vision, and this is why you won't realize that your liebling started hardcore dying 8 years earlier (in terms of running time) than mine - and this fact is the result of well-defined, technical reasons.

I won't say get better soon, because we both know that there's no cure for your illness - all has been already decided at birth.

You're just finding excuses here, let it go.

Again, once you have figures to show me to prove that QL had more players than QC at launch then we can have a discussion. Until then what we have is steam charts and they speak for themselves.

Funny you talk about assumptions by the way when you're literally assuming I was new to quake and QL, or that I love QC. Both assumptions being wrong.

I'm all well and healthy by the way, thanks for bringing that up. I could call that another false assumption (like you like doing), but I know when to differentiate an assumption from a cheap attempt at an insult.

QL ain't coming back to life though, RIP.

Citing valid points is "finding excuses". I see.
Only for the bigoted.

#freeTayski
#takingpartinaTayskiargument
#nevergofullTayski


#frenchlivesmatter

Not to me though. : D

I'm stating a fact demonstrated by stats, and you're just finding reasons of why it is so. That's not a counter argument against the fact itself, that's finding excuses of why it is so.

Stats from the last year, completely ignoring the fact that the first QL beta launched 10 years ago (and your initial statement suppose to cover this period as well, because you used the word "ever") and up until 2014, it was only available on web browsers and on its own launcher, and even after it (partially) migrated to Steam, you could still play it with its launcher for an extended period of time (which many of us did) until Valve's platform became absolutely mandatory - the place where your "stats" coming from.

If you honestly believe that that's not a counter argument, you sir, are unquestionably blind to reality and an idiot.

Your explanation doesn't change the fact that QL had much less players when released on steam as opposed to QC when it was released on steam.

How funny when supposedly the worst quake game ever has had more players since its steam release up until now (over a year) than what's supposed to be last living ship of the "real quake" destiny.

Ignorance level over 9000+1, comprehensive skills under -86.


Sorry we didn't accept you into Pandaemonium for HoQ QLTDM, but you shouldn't have asked dehumanizer, after I said no thanks, because we are looking for a div1 player.
Tough luck that the all-french team also didn't work out, as headz took your spot, even though you tried so desperately to play a dead game.

I played the first games and headz took my spot when I moved country, maybe try to get your facts right as you like to tell others :)

Sorry, once again, for not accepting you.

)

I'm glad you didn't, I don't like sad nerds as teammates.

You must hate yourself.

Not at all actually.

By the way how does it feel to tell people to get well soon because they play QC, or that QC is like Herpes or worse than crack, and then try it and say it's actually better and you might play more of it?

Who cares?

Exactly.

I enjoy myself here and you do not. That’s the difference.

I do enjoy myself here too, thank you.

You must feel like a proper ninja though jumping into people's discussions just to type a couple of useless words. I bet you're really proud of yourself and all.

Forget the release, let's compare the numbers again in a year or two. You'll probably notice older quake games lose around 5-10 players, as opposed to 1000's

Year on year QL loses about 100 average players, which is quite a lot considering it only has less than 300 now.

But I'm sure QC will be the same at some point too.

oh yikes you're actually one of those with that retarded logic that steam numbers mean everything...

since when does a game have a bigger playerpool when you have to buy it as opposed to when it's free ? (not to mention that it was already quite old when it went on steam)

No, I'm not saying that "steam numbers mean everything". However that's the only piece of data we seem to have to work with.

Do you have any alternative source of data to compare numbers of players for quake games?

Now if we look at your theory, you're saying that QL supposedly had a bigger playerpool when it was a free launcher as opposed to when it was released on steam, on the principle that it was free so more players would play it.

I could also argue against that by saying that the QL launcher was not very popular as there hasn't been much marketing done when it was released (as opposed to QC for instance), so not really played by that many apart from the core quake fans who had heard about it, and I could also argue that the steam release actually made it have more visible to non core quake players, even if they had to pay it. Arguably, those who were already playing on the free luncher for a while would have purchased the game on steam anyway (or even got it for free like I did), at least all the people I knew on the launcher got it on steam too, while others who hadn't heard about the launcher actually heard about it on steam.

I know of 2 Q3 players who didn't know about QL until the steam release (one had kind of retired from gaming several years ago, while the other was just playing other games). They both bought the game on steam. Sure that's just 2 players and I cannot make a general assumption just based on that. But again, I haven't seen anything to suggest there were tons more players on the launcher as opposed to steam.

In any case, those are just theories, just like saying there were more players on the launcher because it was free is also just a theory until we see numbers to suggest otherwise.

I for one played Q3 and QL in the browser but didn't buy it on steam

But like you said, you are just speculating so I didnt understand why you would say such things like they were facts in the first place :

Don't pretend QL had thousands of players connected at the same time when it was the launcher. It reached a bigger audience when going on steam.

And you say this :

But again, I haven't seen anything to suggest there were tons more players on the launcher as opposed to steam.

While you haven't seen anything that suggests the opposite either

"Don't pretend QL had thousands of players connected at the same time when it was the launcher. It reached a bigger audience when going on steam."

By strict definition this isn't wrong. It did reach a bigger audience in the sense that the number of people on steam is drastically superior to the number of people who would happen to find the QL launcher.

While I indeed don't have evidence of the numbers of players in the early QL launcher days, there is also no evidence to suggest it was then more popular than QC is now, which is what I was arguing against in the first place when FTY said "I guarantee you it sold less than any other Quake before". This is baseless and most probably not true.

Reaching a bigger audience doesn't necessarily means that more players playing said game.

If you can't find "proper stats" from the time, as a long-time player, your recollection of those years should subjectively provide you hard evidence about how well-populated it was. When you have that, you would find that your recollections are overlapping with other old players' recollections, so they are most probably true.

There's nothing objective about how you feel about certain quake games, so I'd definitely never take your emotive recognition of the past as evidence.

I definitely don't remember QL having thousands and thousands of players connected at the same time, that's your own dream bubble.

However when looking at the few stats that we do have, things speak for themselves.

Now, typically when we don't have evidence to suggest something was there (in this case the high number of players), typically we go for the conclusion that they probably weren't there. Otherwise it's like strongly believing that aliens have visited earth without having any evidence of that, just because someone like you say they recall seeing them.

Well, you are taking out deciding factors out of your equations that can EVEN REMOTELY suggest that you are in the wrong. This is what speaks for itself, not your 1-year-old Steam stats.

QL steam charts are 4 years old, not 1 year old.

I'm looking at 2 steam releases, one has 2.5k average players 1 year after its steam release and also 7k players at peak, the other had 300 average players 1 year after its steam release and 600 at peak.

I don't see what's so hard to understand.

The fact that QL is TEN FUCKING YEARS old, not four, and even when the Steam migration occured, but it didn't get mandatory, many stayed with the launcher for as long as possible.

I mean, this is the thing what's so hard to understand. For you.

Dude, the launcher was only available for a few months from the steam release and it quickly got turned off. And guess what, even when the launcher was turned off there wasn't an increase in the number of players on the steam version.

But yeah let's pretend there were hundreds of thousands of players on the launcher who all decided to stop quake instead of getting the steam version when the launcher was turned off. lmao

Not once have I said that the launcher had hundreds of thousands of players on it - that's also one of your delusions.

A friendly advice: when you are trying to quote someone, do it accurately (and with context, when it's necessary - this time, it isn't), otherwise you are just digging your own grave, smearing your credibility into oblivion.

You're so socially awkward that you don't understand when somebody is exaggerating something to take the piss out of you.

QL is dead though. Sorry for your loss.

Nah. You just can't debate truthfully, because you would lose then.

Truth is QL is dead and you're sad because quake is your life. UL mate

Once id software/Bethesda no longer think that the QC project is worthwhile what do you think will happen with Quake Champions?

Whatever happens won't really affect me emotionally :)

So you have no investment in the franchise but vehemently defend a buggy, poorly designed, anti-consumer product? Wouldn't that just make you a troll?

I'm not defending it though, merely taking the piss out of some people.

You need to check yourself for jameriosis.

I don't really listen to tips from someone deluded enough to argue that there are no cheaters in the pro CS scene, even when presented with evidence of it.

You also need to check eye sight and cognitive abilities. I'm not the only bulgarian on the site.

More like selective memory.

Apologies for mixing you up with the other weirdo.

No but seriously though, you do NOT want jameriosis..!

The QL beta had tens of thousands of players. Much more than QC has ever had.

https://kotaku.com/5160591/dont-plan-on-playi...e-just-yet

Technically speaking they're not players if they're queueing :D

and by strict definition you claiming

Don't pretend QL had thousands of players connected at the same time when it was the launcher.

isn't right either given you have 0 proof

You actually don't know the impact steam had on the game's popularity...you speculate it's that way just because it's steam and that the amount of players is going to peak there while you keep ignoring the age of the game and the fact that some people who played it when it was a free game will simply stop playing it when you have to buy it
It's not like steam is some miraculous marketing thing...

Anyway this is running in circles and given the conversation I've seen between you and Freiya in here (and in some other thread), it doesn't seem you can be reasoned with
Are you french ?

Man I almost gave you credit for actually making some valid points and making this interesting, until the last sentence. What a shame.

I'm just beating on a dead horse mate, we all know QL is dead and has been since steam release and even before to be honest. I just like to troll certain people who are so sad inside that they like to shit on everything that isn't what they love.

When I read "QC is trash compared to any previous Quake game. The reality is Quake Champions alienated even the core Quake fans, that's the problem, now they expect to attract new players with the worst Quake of them all, good luck."

So I just feel like pointing out that it has a decent number of players vs. what QL had on steam launch, it's just to trigger a reaction. Because it's supposed to be so shit, and alienating core quake fans while not attracting new ones. Those numbers just tend to contradict those statements a little bit, hence why I push them to trigger a reaction from those "passionate" quake fans.

But then I get priceless answers such as this:
"Well QL is a shittier Q3A which is pushing 20 years. Not many people bought or played QL because they already had Q3A which was already on decline at the point when id software smartly decided to split the player base even more by introducing Quake Zero/Live. Quake Champions is a new thing, naturally there will be interest in a new game, even from outside the Quake community, but the player retention is non existent as it is evident."

I'm not sure you include me in that pack but just in case :
when did you see me say that QL isn't dead ?
I'm convinced that the game is dead...
I even bash non stop on that LOLReflexTimer guy or whatever that idiot's name is for banging everyone's ears non stop about how they should just bring QL back etc

So I just feel like pointing out that it has a decent number of players vs. what QL had on steam launch, it's just to trigger a reaction.

Is it really just to trigger a reaction though ?
Because you seem convinced that QC is a more popular game than what QL ever was and this is what I dont accept for the reasons we've mentionned.

BTW when you look at QC numbers on steam, they were beyond pathetic until june, but I think you should give it a few months and see how they look then...after all you're comparing it to an almost 20 year old game so it's only fair =)

QL had about 80k player peak when it went F2P. Why do you compare QC release numbers with QL when it was already 5 years on the market. Let's see what numbers QC will produce in 5 years. On top of that QL had probably 2-3% of The development and marketing budget QC has.

Where can I see the figures of QL having about 80k players peak?

Also, the reason I compared the two games' number of players is because according to FTY, QC alienated the core Quake fans while struggling to sell and attract to new players. The stats are showing something different, that's all.

Can you prove that it didn't? Since you're the one claiming ql never reached qc's "heights"

When the return of quake 3, now playable simply in a browser and for free, was quite a big deal 10 years ago.

A shitton of people were playing. But you shill look at steam stats of last month and spout your opinion.

Answer honestly, where do you think quake champions will be, in 10 years?

I'm not claiming there was 80k players peak back then, as I know that's BS.

QL never reached QC's heights on steam, true story. Launcher = no stat and just pure speculation, but when I see people saying there was 80k players online at the same time I can't help but laugh though.

To answer your question, most games die within 3 or 4 years to start with, I have a hard time seeing QC active get past that (maybe 300 players like QL has now or something).

Wow, you're really retarded. Can you even read? Are you high? Do you need some adderall to understand those silly simbols in lines?

zZz

calling people retards, what a great come back.

What silly symbols am I supposedly not understanding?

There are screenshots of the queue QL had when it went F2P. Check Google or just ask people here that were playing back then.

Do you have a link to those screenshots?

https://news-cdn.softpedia.com/images/news2/Q...News-2.png

Ok that's a start, but that's quite far from the 80k figure claimed by abso, and also still lower than the peak number of QC players this month.

that's the number of people who were queuing to play, not the number which was in game. also it's the open beta

Yeah I appreciate that, but that still doesn't indicate 80k players connected at the same time, or even a higher player peak than QC.

I mean don't get me wrong, it's still more than I thought it would even have.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3373/3310854273_4a55f67b4b.jpg

Found this one after 5 seconds. Mb learn to use Google? Also I remember sitting in queue at position 70K+.

Nice find. It's only the people in queue, not even all the ones playing, and it's still twice over Quake Champions' peak.

Tayski's asshole status: destroyed.

shit that's where his brain is located...I guess we lost him for good then

There were more people on the QC launcher during the beta :p

Oh i know you're used to the feeling

Sounds like the lyrics of a happy hardcore tune.

While it's just a sad aspect of your life

says the guy with 3577 posts on ESR

Finally :)

That smiley to hide the pain, lol

Are you experiencing epicaricacy? Why would I be in pain?

I asked if he could provide a screenshot to show that there was 80k peak players and he showed me one with a queue of 31k. I'm thankful he showed a screenshot with a high number, even though it's still not proving the 80k peak players, but at least I'm in a better position to take his word for it.

Your attempts at trolling are disappointing.

Oh you know why ;)

You're in pain because you were so confident no one was going to have proofs that quake live has been multiple times bigger than quake champions ever did, and for a small fraction of the moneys involved-

But then some buster dug up some screenshots and now everyone can have additional, concrete proof of your making up stuff and lying desperately.

You can spam smileys, but your rear is hurting and those are teary eyes :-)

There's still no proof that QL had more average players than QC does. All I've seen is screenshots of people in queue at the same time unable to play, which by definition aren't "players" if they are not playing.

Not only I haven't been proven wrong, but I actually gave credit to those who tried for actually digging up some concrete stuff towards the conversation.

If you really think that I'm butthurt or upset because of those screenshots you clearly don't know me lol.

But I can only imagine that for someone who's posted 3.5k posts in 6 years on ESR, things are taken a bit more seriously on here :D

Lmao you're wiggling like a worm under the sun, trying to find an escape. But you shouldn't embarrass your math skills in trying to do so. If there are double the amount of people in queue, the people in game are more than quake champions ever saw.

And that's why you just posted that smile of defeat, without any other explanation :-)

Now you came up with some other excuse? That's cute, but it takes you a while

And yeah, you clearly care about the prestige of this game a little too much to not be bothered as you say ;)

I mean, just look at you. You're single handedly writing more posts than the rest of esr users combined

" But you shouldn't embarrass your math skills in trying to do so. If there are double the amount of people in queue, the people in game are more than quake champions ever saw. "

Lol. Talking about math skills you have no idea what the limit number of players on the servers at the same time was then, so assuming there was more people in the game than on QC because of the number of players in queue is a completely fictive guess.

"I mean, just look at you. You're single handedly writing more posts than the rest of esr users combined"

Please let's not speak about numbers of posts, you have more than double the number of posts I've had in 12 years in only just 6 years :) You're essentially writing a constant average of 2 posts a day everyday straight for 6 years wtf haha

And 2 posts a day are a lot? Because you're writing triple than that.

What were you saying about math skills, again?

3592 posts in 6 years is a lot yeah.

And no I'm not writing triple that, I've only got 1235 posts in 12 years. That's not about a third of the amount in double the time.

2 posts a day is a lot? Then what about your 10 posts a day, because 1000 of your post you've written in the last 2 months or so.

You've gone full retard

2 post a day every single day constantly for 6 and a half years straight is pretty sad yes.

I'm not making 10 posts a day, nor have made 1,000 posts in the last 2 months, so I don't know what you're on about.

You're so sad and mad that you have to resort to calling me a retard for simply pointing out at the fact that you're a no-life nerd. Sorry bro, you can't delete those thousands of posts you've written, it's all on the profile.

You think you're rubbing the knife in the wound because someone checked my QC profile and saw 29% LG or because someone showed me a screenshot of a few thousands players in queue on QL when it launched. The fact that you think those would somehow affect me psychologically and that you coming in saying "you're in pain" would make it worse is both hilarious and sad at the same time.

Get a life boy.

2 posts a day require at most 5-10 minutes total, considering most of my posts are one liners.

That's not much at all, that's why i said you're terrible at math, and you keep proving it again and again.

On the other hand, you're definitely writing MUCH more than me: just taking a look at your profile shows that just yesterday you wrote 13 posts.

Now that's a lot, and quite sad especially seeing of all those posts are you stalking and harassing other users for their opinions on a game you're too much emotionally invested in.

And i would be the nerd? How so, i'm not the one stalking people for their videogames tastes. I don't even play that much anymore, let alone doing what you're doing.

Seems to me that you're projecting, "bro".

Don't turn this on me bro!

You're the nerd with 3,596 posts on ESR!

Funny you mention harassing others when you come out of nowhere to post things like "That smiley to hide the pain, lol", "Wow, you're really retarded", "Tayski's asshole status: destroyed.", "You've gone full retard".

Don't try to be a bully, you suck at it.

As i said, my posts are much more spèread out. You're the nerd, posting 13 times a day!

Don't try to fake ignorance, because even you can understand that simple math.

Also don't try to spin it around, you're the obsessed guy chasing users and attacking them.

In fact, you sound like one of those quiet guys that make up stories in their minds about girls they like, and go crazy when they get rejected.

This recently happened to you, and that's why you're going full obsessive-compulsive here in esr.

wtf lol

you just got psychoanalysed bro, it happens on esr

And only on ESR.

Apples and Oranges.

QL is just basically Q3 relaunched. When Q3 came out there was not even such a thing as steam so how would you make this comparison properly?

But I will try anyway:

QL:
"On August 3, 2007, at QuakeCon 2007, id Software publicly announced their plans to release a free browser-based Quake III game titled Quake Zero.[9] In early 2008, the title was officially renamed to Quake Live"

"Within the first six hours after launch over 113,000 user accounts were created.[12]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_Live

Q3:
"Quake III's sales surpassed 50,000 copies during its first three days of release, by which time 1 million copies had been printed.[34] It debuted at #5 on PC Data's weekly computer game sales chart for the December 5-11 period.[35] The game rose to fourth place in the weekly top 10 the following week.[36]

In North America, Quake III sold 168,309 copies and earned $7.65 million from January through October 2000, according to PC Data.[37] Its overall sales in the region, including its launch in 1999, totaled 319,970 units by November 2000.[38] Its sales for 2000 alone ultimately reached 190,950 units and $8.4 million by the end of the year.[39] The game later received a "Silver" sales award from the Entertainment and Leisure Software Publishers Association (ELSPA),[40] indicating sales of at least 100,000 copies in the United Kingdom.[41] "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_III_Arena

Quake1:
In the United States, Quake placed sixth on PC Data's monthly computer game sales charts for November and December 1996.[35] Its shareware edition was the sixth-best-selling computer game of 1996 overall,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_(video_game)

Quake Champions:
Owners: 500,000 .. 1,000,000"
https://steamspy.com/app/611500

PUBG:
Owners: 50,000,000 .. 100,000,000
https://steamspy.com/app/578080

So it almost seems like in their day these early quake games were up in top 10 selling area. By comparison QC only has 1% the sales (oh thats not sales its free) of todays top sellers.

Some valid points.

However for that last sentence we'd also have to take into account the number of PC games available now as opposed to when the first quake games were released.

There was no CS, LoL, PUBG, Fortnite, Overwatch, Dota, WoW, etc. when Quake 1, 2 and 3 were released.

1) CS came out less than a year after Q3 so they were contemporary...and a small game called Starcraft, which you forgot to mention

2) internet access (and thus multiplayer gaming) was nowhere near as performant/available as it is nowadays, so the fact that Q3 was so popular back then is huge relatively speaking

1) As you mentioned CS came out the year after Q3 and therefore that didn't have an impact on the sales of Q3 at its launch, nor did it have an impact on Q1 or Q2. Add to that the fact that CS when it first came out was nowhere near as popular as it then became later on around versions 1.5 / 1.6 and then CSS and CS:GO. Starcraft might have been present back then, but that still doesn't change the point that there were nowhere near the amount of games there are today, and even less so games played by millions like today.

2) Quake 1 and Quake 2 were mostly purchased for their solo campaigns anyway, and by the time Q3 came out the internet wasn't as performant as today indeed, but it definitely was very available already especially in countries which were the main markets for Quake in Europe and North America. id-software would not have launched a multiplayer-focused game had the internet not be so widely available already and online gaming getting so popular already.

If you think internet in 2000 wasn't even an issue for most of the most developped countries then you're dreaming or have very poor memory.
Sure people had access to it with at least a 28.8k modem but broadband was really not a common thing yet and even so some countries (i.e. France) with broadband were still pinging like crap basically everywhere.

And I know Q1 and Q2 weren't purchased for the multiplayer aspect, I didn't mention them did I ?

You don't even know the markets they were targeting anyway, you just speculate to make everything fit your own logic.
I don't even see id thinking "meh Russia is a small irrelevant country, this game ain't aimed at them"

Anyway it feels too much like talking to a wall...I am done

I think you're missing the point here. When Q3 came out internet was there and online gaming was already a thing. Otherwise why make a multiplayer-focused game?

Here, I've just typed internet 1999 (year of Q3 release) in Google and just came across this article from the BBC which literally says that 1999 was the year of the internet and that huge numbers of people went online that year: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/574132.stm

You purposely didn't mention Q1 or Q2 while handpicking the part of my response to evil_ash that you wanted to try and counter-argue. Both those games were mentioned in my initial response to evil_ash alongside Q3. The one you replied to.

You don't need half a brain to know what markets they were targeting when releasing quake, essentially developed countries where PC gaming and internet were a thing.

You literally jump in to try and correct me by saying that CS came out the year after Q3 was released (so what?), that there was also SC back then (great but that's still only one game versus the hundreds of today as my initial post mentioned), and that internet access was nowhere as near performant (irrelevant) or nowhere near available as it is nowadays (sure not like today but it was already very available), but then when you get proven wrong you resort to saying you're talking to a wall. Come on man.

Wow a random journalist from the BBC wrote an article in 1999 claiming that 1999 was the year of the internet !!
Thank god he had a lot of perspective there
I wonder what that expert had to say in 2000, 2001 etc...or did internet regress then ?

Ofc I didnt mention Q1 and Q2 since you compare them with 100% multiplayer games while admitting yourself they were solo games in the first place

And then after "proving" that 1999 was the year of the internet (!!11) you say id were targeting countries where internet was a thing...so apparently it's not th3 y34r 0f th3 1n73rn37 for everyone ?

It's ok though cause you say internet access not being as performant is irrelevant when deciding to buy and play a multiplayer game...ok, great logic

And after all this you have the nerve to claim you proved me wrong :D

You're just cherry picking to win an argument now.

That article written in 1999 somehow wasn't written in 1990 or in 1995, I wonder why. It doesn't matter what happened after that, the internet was already a thing otherwise why would id have released a multiplayer focused game in 1999 know as Q3? (you can keep ignoring that question)

I mentioned Q1 and Q2 as a response to someone who mentioned the sales of Q1 (scroll up and you'll see the post I replied to). The sales of those games weren't influenced by the dozens of other games available, unlike now.

When I say id targeted countries where the internet is a thing, it's a response to your moronic statement that I "assumed" what market they're targeting. Somehow I have a feeling they were more likely to target the US, Germany, Scandinavia, etc. as opposed to Tanzania, Guyana or Nepal. You literally said "You don't even know the markets they were targeting anyway, you just speculate to make everything fit your own logic.". Do you forget what you say and respond to every time you comment?

And then you even say "It's ok though cause you say internet access not being as performant is irrelevant when deciding to buy and play a multiplayer game...ok, great logic". Can you tell me exactly how people in 1999 knew that their connection was poor without anything else more modern to compare it to? That's what they had and all they knew.

You're literally responding for the sake of it now, not bringing new arguments and just scrutinizing my responses in the hope of finding something you can quote and find a variant counter response to.

My initial points were:
"However for that last sentence we'd also have to take into account the number of PC games available now as opposed to when the first quake games were released.

There was no CS, LoL, PUBG, Fortnite, Overwatch, Dota, WoW, etc. when Quake 1, 2 and 3 were released."

You have no counter argument to that, let's leave it at that.

"the internet was already a thing otherwise why would id have released a multiplayer focused game in 1999 know as Q3?"

yes and no

I was in-between computers when q3 came out, but most of my freinds I knew who got the game were mostly interested in it for singleplayer. It was a cool new concept at the time - to play a deathmatch campaign where enemies (bots) got increasingly difficult every map you progressed. It was also very high end graphics (think crysis1 level hype) and a very action packed and gore filled game (think mortal kombat)

I also did not have internet till several years later myself.

Also there was LAN which was probably just as popular as internet, and also there was piracy. Id guess 4/5 copies of quake were never actually paid for.

Maybe the reason it was made - partly off the success of multiplayer in doom1 etc. They wanted to take that concept not just as an extra feature but instead build a game around it.

At some point in this thread I thought you said QC is the most successful quake game ever - and im just saying no to that.

Q3 was big - and since then the company behind it only went downhill mostly self sabotaging their own multiplayer community.

Can't disagree, and I bet that the internet must have been a pain at the end of the 90's in Australia. I guess we were a bit luckier in Europe.

In the original post you responded to I said that I don't believe QL had 80k players connected at the same time, and asked how come QC had so many players when it's supposedly the "worst ever quake game" and "alienating the core quake fans while failing to attract new fans".

I doubt it ever had 80k simultanious. It says 113 000 accounts in 6 hours. If they all played 1 hour thats 20k online. I dont actually think anybody could log in anyway as the servers overloaded. Again see mismanagement of their own community.

"worst ever quake game" - thats really free for anybody to decide for themselves. People want to think its the greatest game ever then more power to them

"alienating the core quake fans"
- no idtech engine
- no custom maps
- no server browser
- no user hosted servers
- abilites (maybe?)
- budget? (see doom4)

Id say yea they are feeling pretty alienated. It is a sequel after all.

"failing to attract new fans" - It has some players, nowhere near as many as I think a better thought out game design and effort could have brought in.

ok I'll respond one last time because I'm getting really tired of this stupid argumentation

An article written in 1999 to say 1999 was the year of the internet is completely ridiculous since you lack any reference to compare it to.
It's like saying it's the golden age of the internet while having no idea if it has peaked yet.
It's an article saying internet is growing, like duh...you could write one like that pretty much every year since the early 90's

I don't ignore the fact that internet was already around when Q3 was released, sorry for not aknowledging the most obvious shit you say.
I'm trying to make you understand that YES it's a multiplayer game BUT it was released in a still semi-mediocre and semi-underground environment that you cannot ignore.

You on the other hand refuse to acknowledge the fact that IT has improved and thus gaming is a much bigger thing now so OF COURSE there are more various games available to compete against but you insist on trying to compare 2 completely different generations and ignore the problems that the previous one was facing.
So yes I'll agree to the most obvious argument that Q3 had the advantage of having less competition BUT it was facing other problems that your list of successul games don't have to worry about. That's why it's completely stupid to claim that QC is more successful than Q3 for example.
The environments are totally different on multiple level and you just cannot look at the amount of sales in the absolute to judge how great a game is.
For example, to me, CS is probably the most successful game ever and I don't even care if the sales of pubg or the amount of fortnite players are 10x bigger...just because it has been around for so long it deserves to be considered as the greatest.

Can you tell me exactly how people in 1999 knew that their connection was poor without anything else more modern to compare it to? That's what they had and all they knew.

I mean...wow...
Ye we totally didnt understand latency back then...it's not like you could feel a difference when playing vs AI offline or even in LAN as opposed to ping 200 online right ?
Or back in the 28.8k modem days when you were facing a rich kid with an ISDN connection.
Or even in the early ADSL days when you're with your ping 65 and you encounter some swede with a T3 connection and ping 15...you really don't feel the advantage he's got...
Now I'm convinced that you have absolutely no fucking clue of what you're talking about and you most probably weren't around back then.

This time I promise I won't reply anymore and for your own sake neither should you imo

Didn't read.

gg

You can't. The only people that know for certain are id software and there is no way they would release those numbers because it might be the case that considerably more people at least gave Quake Live a shot.

If you're looking for numbers, I think there are much better indirect metrics you could use, the key one being player participation in competitive events. It's hard to get data from this era because things were not properly recorded but from memory there were tonnes of NA CTF teams and getting scrims was very easy. I can't say that about QC, there were a handful of 2V2/Sac teams (NA).

Don't try to reason with him.

Unless you have a considerable amount of free time.

Or want to entertain yourself.

Also, how do you know a game is trash before buying it if you didn't play in the early beta?

Also, how do you know your hand won't regrow if u cut it off? what? u have read some random posts on the internet? how about you try it yourself before starting to hate? look - my hand is completly fine, get a grip.

You can choose to ignore the point all you want, unless you play a game you won't know how bad it is. You're joking yourself if you think most common gamers will come to ESR for reviews about the game.

Feel free to compare playing a game with cutting your hand off, people buy new games all the time though.

You're joking yourself if you think most common gamers will come to ESR for reviews about the game.

??? :D

i just compared your ridiculous argument with another ridiculous argument, i said no more.

grow some hands brain

He literally said that people won't buy QC because it's shit, I counter that by saying people won't know its shit until they've bought it. You had nothing to argue against that apart from comparing it to chopping your own hand off. Get a grip you're the one who needs to think harder.

well he has a point - i haven't bought the game, yet i know its shit because i played it. Got a beta key back in 2017, now im running on a free steam version. So u dont have to buy qc to know its shit. Or any other game - thats what reviews are for, u might still wanna try it by yourself but when many say its shit - this might actually be true.

You played the pre beta, so you did play it to know its shit. That's my point. Sure you can read reviews but as you said you might still wanna try it anyway.

yea well i knew its shit before i played it because of the reviews, but i tried because i hoped they might be wrong - and they wasnt. Good thing that i didnt have to spend money to realize it

wait what? QL isn't free?

Sucky, sucky 10 dolla...

Not that it doesn't worth 10 bucks though..

But ye, it would be nicer for free, obviously.

Yeah it's not like everybody who wants to play it already has the game... And QL going free would of course mean a massive wave of new players (lol), who would anyway be welcomed to the game by getting owned, flamed and trolled by long time players. Let's campaign for free QL!

"to the game by getting owned, flamed and trolled by long time players"

Personal experience?

)

Yeah I've witnessed it plenty of times.

I like how you choose to ignore the main point of the posts pointing out how much of an idiot you are about free QL.

Here's your main point: I know several people personally, who played Q3, then QL in the standalone times. They went away, then came back lately, when the game was on Steam already, just to realize it doesn't have a free to play part anymore. And they won't buy it - and not because they are poor, or they don't like the game. The reason is: fuck id.


The baguette is strong in you.

Are those people the devoted invested ones you like to talk about?

Can't even put a few euros in a game they supposedly love.

The kolbasz is strong in you.

Nah. Those are the people with self-respect.


Thanks. kolbász >>>>>>> snails and frogs, anytime, anywhere

Btw the kolbász is in YOUR ass, talking in an uber-serious and condescending way - littered with short mental episodes - all the time. You must be the heart of the party IRL.



: D

i had to stop reading at 'littered with short mental episodes'

it's not that i disapproved, on the contrary, it was more about how i couldn't read the screen anymore after my eyes welled up, having seen a most accurate description of tayski in recent times

the nail was most certainly banged onto the head with that line

still.... it's nice to have a new wildling to wonder at here on esr so let's not perturb him too much

Thanks.

I agree: while I'm not a PETA or WWF member, I strongly believe that we have to preserve the untouched wildlife for a better tomorrow.

Idk man I think you'd make a great World Wrestling Federation villian. =\

I bet your eyes welled up, fatty.

Nah, fuck my strong WWF beliefs. Sometimes, you have to remove weak specimens from existence, so you can keep the remaining population strong. : D

http://www.esreality.com/post/2923303/#pid2923040

Alborz is on to something here...

The first one could be abused the shit out of, but his second version is getting close to a good solution.

The baguette is in your ass as you're running out of arguments and have to result to country stereotypes. You're so desperate you have to also resort to photoshop to try and be funny. It's all very sad really.

What arguments? I said everything I had to regarding the games, and it felt like talking to a wall. I'm just having fun now - don't pretend that somebody can truthfully argue with you.

About my "desperation":

First of all, the picture is not my product, got it on Discord from a nice fellow (this alone already speaks volumes), just uploaded it here, because I found it fitting.

Second of all, you wouldn't need Photoshop for a super simple pic like this anyway - 3 minutes with IrfanView would be more than enough. But we all know it's legit. )

Third of all, I'm not trying to be funny, I AM funny, with or without the legit picture. Can't you see dem sweet [+]es pouring in? <3


Sad this, sad that.. c'mon, Timmy just praised you. Why the butthurt?

Awww, you're getting approval from a few other sad nerds who have the same elitists views towards QC vs. previous quakes, how cute... I'm so happy for you :)

Hopefully in a few years you can tell people online about how dedicated and invested you were in hating QC and mocking those playing it, and how you were one of the last QL survivors, what a rebel hero you!

It took you a while to figure out some response. )


You never thought about why the jokes and mocking are on you by the majority, did you?

Hint: in our community, YOU are one of the (pretty humorless I might add) rebels, not me. Good job on QC anyways. )

Yeah mate coz just like you I'm on ESR 24/7, so I saw your comment as it went live, went to the drawing board, and wrote this perfectly written answer which took me 2 days. Or maybe I just didn't see that comment until now, who knows.

"The majority"? You mean a handful of QL-haters who are stuck in the past and have to express their anger on a daily basis?

I know for sure I'm the rebel in this community, just because I don't choose the easy option of going "fuck QC and fuck id" like the rest. It doesn't mean I'm happy with either, but I don't just resort to "fruitless" flame (I know you like that word) to express my thoughts, let alone just to feel like I belong to a "community".

Yes, because you don't belong in it.

And happy to be so, especially considering how sad and rotten they are.

Your comments seem like anything, but happy.

Coming from Freiya himself, the irony.

I'm having good fun, ridiculing your bigotry. ^^

Hahaha again the irony, coming from the man who calls people who play a game he doesn't like "lacking self-respect", "disgraceful", and whatnot.

You're so full of irony and double standards that you should be put as an example to explain those words.

Irony seems to be your favourite word. I imagine the reason is that you look in the mirror every morning and see it reflecting back at you.

Hahaha, come on I'm sure you can do better than that. I have flash backs of being at primary school with those half assed attacks.

"Attack" lol. Just tried to outline a likely scenario for your misuse of the word.

But thanks for the info that you have been "attacked" with such things as early as in primary school.

Yeah you know when someone is trying so hard to formulate some verbal attack or banter that it sounds pathetic and all you can do is laugh at them? That's what it feels like reading your last response.

"I imagine you look at yourself in the mirror every morning and see irony reflecting back at you! Take that!"

Just lol.

I really have a hard time believing that you do get out and experience things IRL without getting bullied.

You have a hard time with anything that requires some brain power.

But don't be mad. Eat a donut instead. It will make you feel happy. ^^

You're having a hard time full stop.

I'm not mad, I've got things going. However when you say that Quake is your life and you're emotionally invested in it, I feel for you :( maybe you should try the donut trick?

"I've got things going"

Starting to become a meme?

"Quake is my life, I'm emotionally attached" is another good one.

Still better than being clarified as a self-righteous bigot, who can't even read, let alone differentiate between tenses, hours and minutes. Dude, people are laughing at you.

Welcome on my ignore list. It takes a special kind of retard to earn this.

"Quake is my life, I'm emotionally attached"

how is this free to play and quake live is not?

developers intention are more than obvious... if there is such a thing.


play more quake live!

well QL was at least free 4 long&all who played it as it was a browser thingy

QC has a shop. QL hasn't.

You mean one of them is Quake and the other one is not.

Never heard that one before, oh wait.

See, you just had to think about it a little.

You repeat yourself more than an old man.

I have to when mentally challenged people can't grasp it properly.

Or maybe because they simply don't agree with your stupid statements.

You seem to have moved away from fat shaming and talking incoherent bile with me and seem to have move onto other folk like Freiya.

Don't worry Freiya.

Everyone gets a bit of Tayski when he goes full Tayski.

I'm not worried, bro, but thanks for the heartwarming concern. : D

You got nothing to offer apart from "going full Tayski". As if you were not talking incoherent bile to start with. At least freiya is trying harder. Don't feel bad I'm not giving you as much attention as you give cupcakes.

Poor Freiya.

Lucky me.

Mate you so desperately need attention that you try to get involved in other people's arguments, fuck back off under your rock.

I appreciate his invaluable insights.

Of course you would :)

Ye, he sounds reasonable.

Or maybe he's just going your way without adding anything, just maybe.

Maybe I said almost everything relevant, then he saw how you behave and react like a proper (leftist) wall, and he didn't feel the urge to try to argue with you any further seeing how you distort facts to your own convenience, and he's only having fun now, just like me. Just maybe.

I act like a leftist wall and you act like an elitist old fart who's stuck in the past and feels emotional when things aren't what they used to. Hell you even said yourself that you're emotionally attached and affected by the happening of the quake series, while of course also stating that you stopped caring a long time ago, as ironical as one can be.

He didn't feel the urge to argue with me so that's why he decided to reply to my comments in the look for an argument, makes total sense.

elitist old fart >>>>> leftist wall

Well, anything is better than being a leftist.


"while of course also stating that you stopped caring a long time ago"

About giving constructive criticism to devs and dickriders, because it's clearly futile.
On the other hand, I absolutely love how you are purposefully picking single thoughts out of context and trying to present them as solid base of your gibberish.


Did he look for an argument? It seemed to me he was just trying to have fun by triggering you, which attempt succeeded.

"anything is better than being a leftist."

I love how you just used the word "bigotry" in another comment to describe me while displaying bigotry yourself in this exact comment as well as many others.

To be honest if I really had to choose I'd rather be a leftist than some dude who constantly cries about a new game on an online forum while claiming that quake is his life because he's so invested in it emotionally.

You're a joke.

Thing is, hardcore leftist are deemed objectively retarded by anybody who has more IQ than 70.

The very people who invented the term leftist and use it on a regular basis typically have an IQ below 70.

Those I hear using the term leftist the most are rednecks and online nerds.

you have a source for this?

oh you don't?

just more bile?

well done kid

A source for the claim that people who use the term leftist have low IQ?

Go talk to them and find out.

ps: was there a source for Freiya's own claim? Or did you just decide to ignore his statement because you're riding his dick?

i'm not sure if that's the fourth or fifth time in the past three days that you have used the word dick on esr

interesting

very very interesting

I'm glad you took notice of it and counted it. Must be a word that gets you excited.

ya got me

Obviously, since your hearing skills are as selective and flawed, as your reading ones.


Then thank your "non-leftist", "not-retarded" comrades that you're getting slaughtered in the hundreds by immigrant islamic lunatics in your own country.

HAHAHAHAHA

Yeah mate, I bet things are going down well with the surge of neo-nazi movements and parties in Hungary. Who knows, maybe one day you might manage to reach the top50 biggest economies.

Yeah, everything is just fine here, thanks.

More and more countries started to accept and even adopt our policies regarding the issue EU-wise (since we have literally ZERO immigrant problems within our borders), as we don't have malicious jew retards in power, like you guys over there.

Let's turn this into a political debate by assuming that I live in France because you've seen a French flag next to my name somewhere. Hopefully we can somehow get to my feelings because there's been a couple of terror attacks in France. You're pathetic.

You feel more sad about the death of QL and the raise of QC than I feel about a bunch of people killed in a terror attack in France, it says enough about how much of a sad nerd you are.

So many assumptions for somebody who calls others out on them. Then you wonder why I use the word "irony" when speaking to you.

"You feel more sad about the death of QL and the raise of QC than I feel about a bunch of people killed in a terror attack in France"

Umm...isn't that a proof of how emotionally stunted you are?


But I love how you couldn't compose a flame to the essence of my second sentence in my last post. <3

I'm not gonna start a political debate with a nerd who says that quake is his life and he's emotionally attached to it, and then tells me that "my people" are getting killed by the hundreds by immigrant islamists.

Once you've realised that I haven't lived in France for over a decade and that you don't need a neo-nazi regime to solve problems, maybe we can have a discussion.

I like this picture of Budapest though: https://idsb.tmgrup.com.tr/2015/09/03/HaberDe...217733.jpg

"Neo-nazi regime".

:' D

You are watching too much leftist propaganda.


You are not gonna start anything, because you prolly know, that you would be slaughtered. What an easy life.

Talking about bigotry, you know how to display it.

I'd be slaughtered? You have concentration camps too in Hungary?

leftist

oh shit I just morphed into a redneck sub70 iq online nerd !

oh no, what have you done bro! :(

I just wanted to see if this was legit and not fake news

is there a undo word or something? I don't have much against the 200kg, meth pipes and confederate flags that appeared but its kinda hard to move now.

the motorcade is quite cool though

I'm afraid there might be no turning back. You can decide to take the racist online nerd path like Freiya instead though.

However, there is still additional polish, improvements and new content - like the upcoming Capture the Flag mode - that we want to get into the game before we declare it “fully released.”

ok so when it's released you're gonna drop it like a turd? I don't think this is how f2p is supposed to work.

That's not what is being said in what you quoted. They just feel they still have a few things to fix, improve and launch before calling it "fully released".

They might still drop it when it's released, but that's not what they're saying here.

But what is the criterion by which to mark the official release? Clearly the game should have become free at time of release, so you signal to people that the release really is the proper time to try out the game. But it's f2p now, making people try it out, and the release is still months if not years away.

Also, a f2p game is supposed to be maintained for years well after release, from a marketing perspective this really long beta is bad. People expect regular content, updates, etc. before release and bitch if they aren't delivered, but commend you if you continue to deliver content after release. All these champions and maps they've added since the beta started have been wasted because they could have been shown to a bigger audience after release to pull people into the game. If they had released in march 2017 the public would be going "wow id software is really committed to Quake Champions" because there has been some content since then. And the biggest tournament the game ever had would not have been during the beta.

Someone might think that obviously they will do the official release when they deem that the game is good enough, after they have "fixed, improved and launched a few things". Which is nothing but a joke. The game will not significantly improve at any point in its future development (barring CTF). There have been freezes, horrible bugs and overall mediocrity during Quakecon 2017, there have been during Quakecon 2018, and there will be during Quakecon 2019. Freezes, on LAN. It will never become not bad, let alone good. Saber will not magically pull a good engine out of their ass. What the game is now it will more or less stay forever. And id knows this.

I'm getting generous with dem [+]es lately. : D

There is no criteria by which to mark an official release, it's up to the creator's own discretion.

At this stage I believe they are just concerned the numbers of players need to go up, and they saw that the short while during which the game was free in June did actually bring thousands of new players. There is an in-game currency which is obtainable by putting in real money in the game, so in any case if there are thousands of people playing the game, some will pay for things in-game - probably not the hardcore fans or those who simply don't like to spend their money, but typically that's how F2P games make their money (I've heard of a couple of American dudes who spent over 10,000 dollars in just a few months on cases in Dirty Bomb). So they can still rely on that business model as long as the numbers keep coming in, and those need to be casual players and not hardcore quakers as that's the guys who will spend money in-game if they're hooked.

The reason the game is still supposedly in Beta is because they don't want to be embarrassed by releasing something which looks half finish. I'm of the opinion that game developers should just take longer to test their games before throwing out a crappy beta version that's terrible to play while still tweaking it for ages. But I also see why they're doing it, it's a way to have players test their game and provide feedback for free - as opposed to paying a testing team full wage to do that work over the course of many months.

I mean you're saying the game will not significantly improve at any point in its future development, but actually if you compare what it was like last year and what it's like now, it's night and day really. The game was so bad last year when it came out that I stopped playing it for about 9 months after just a few weeks. Now it's actually playable.

If they"re aware that they still have many fixes and tweaks to work on before finally calling it a "final release" to me that's a better sign than releasing a piece of shit and calling it the "final release" on the basis that they might still tweak it post final release.

In my mind and many people's mind, when something is called final release it means it's done and they're happy with the final product. If they had done that last year a lot more people would have stopped playing it, thinking "fuck if that's the final game, sod playing that crap" and would have left without coming back, including myself. At least now we're living in the illusion that this is still a work in progress.

"There is no criteria by which to mark an official release, it's up to the creator's own discretion."

There is in every other industry on planet Earth.

The product has to work as intended. No major flaws.

Imagine buying a car and having it break down everyday.
Or having to stop it in the middle of the highway every 4 lane changes so you can restart it.
Or it completely breaks down and you have to wait 1.5-2 months for "AAA" to show up.

Or buying the car, bringing it home and the car isn't finished.
Major pieces of the engine not finished. Couple doors missing.
Once every 2 months they mail you a piece of the car. You have to fix it yourself.
Each piece they mail you doesn't fit quite right.
Look on youtube for help videos.
"turn the key back, then forward"
"Take this part of the engine, take it off then put it back in"

selling unfinished or broken software should be illegal.

If we take the same imagery, your computer would be the car which indeed needs to work as intended when you buy it and cannot break down everyday. When you have issues with your computer, resorting to youtube for tips on "how to take out x part to replace it by another part", or "take it out and put it back" in actually sounds quite familiar.

A game would be like buying a sat nav programme with all the maps for you to navigate with your car. It can still be incomplete when people first access it, it relies on people to provide feedback and help complete it, and it needs updating every now and then.

Having said that, it's how things work but I don't agree with it. A game should indeed be finished when it's released and back in the day it was like that, there might be a few patches after the release once some new bugs have been spotted but generally the games weren't in "beta" for 1 year or more.

It really only need competent people working on it.

..... for the third time in the space of a year.

They sure are confident in their product's popularity.

By the way, if i were one of the guys that paid full price for this abortion of a game, i'd feel pretty pissed off right now.

All this switching between full price and free to play depending on trending tendences... pretty dishonest toward the paying customers.

If you paid full price you have all champions as well as a bunch of other stuff. By getting the free game you only have a couple of champions to play with. So it's not like they're giving away for free what others have paid full price for.

The only ones who could be pissed off are those who paid the small price for the basic game (4€ or whatever that was) which is now what's being give for free. To be honest you could buy cd-keys for like 1,50€ on third party sites anyway.

Bespethda should pay to players for wasting time in this crapshit. Like they pay to botnets for announcing it in socialnetworks.

Imho they just given up on the whole thing, and this is a botched 'release'... of course they will keep a couple of guys tinkering with it, like adding a new map & a champ every year, probably making the game worse and worse.

posting in Tayski thread

and he does it for free

You're welcome.

There are also possible subscription models pending atm.

Woo, this is getting a thing now? : D

if you pay more than my job, I might play. but I like my job so probs nah.

Free is still too much for Quake Champions

Nah, that's stretching it too far. I think free is reasonable. )

Never go full Tayski

Yeah better instead to mock things going free while at the same time begging for others to go free even though it doesn't make any sense for them to be.

Fuck jumping on your QC-hating-QL-loving bandwagon.

many would deem that response as going full tayski

Many would deem you a fat cunt in quest for social approval.

i have 19% body fat but that is not relevant here

why bully and fat shame?

"why bully" hahaha the irony.

Payback is a cunt isn't it.

What is this payback you speak of?

Probably refund for QC.

Whatever is his reason, he has mine. : D

bandwagon? more like common sense.

It's not common sense when you have to force it down people's throat at every opportunity including on threads related to it, even to the point of being irrational about business models.

So because things are free we can't mock or criticize them? What kind of world are you living in. If it is shit it is shit, regardless if it is 600EUR, 60EUR, 6EUR or Free.

You completely missed the point here.

It's ironical to critize them for making QC free but at the same time asking for a free QL while completely ignoring the commercial reasoning behind it.

If the game is shit as you say why does it matter to you then if you have to pay for it or if it's free?

They wont be making any money with Quake Live or Quake Champions anyway, so they might make both free to play. One is an old game from 20 years ago, the other one is just a bad game.

The game shoves it's own bullshit down people throats.
That's why the majority of posts here, bethesda and steam are all negative....
even when they had the CBT forum.

Makes sense, it was free-to-dev anyway.

Just another thread were I just wish there was a [ - ] button on ESR and people reaching the -100 mark would get banned for good. Maybe we can pilot this, but instead of perma make it a week ban or make the -'d user default into ignored user thread.

reddit reality

Doom eternal will help kill this game.

Don't whine and cry. It was max 10 % chance of QC to be quakers game. Just don't play it. Wait for next good arena shooter and enjoy real life mean time. I had zero hopes for QC so I dont feel disapointed to much. Knew q4 and ql history.. even q3 was shit without communitys help. Cu in diabotical

I tried real life once, I wouldn't do it again.

Sad story bro

SRJ GUARD

My causcasian

<3



ps SRJ JON (jh16) says hi

Finally someone with common sense.

If you don't like it don't play it and just move to something else (IRL activity or other game, whatever).

Glad to see I'm not the only one who works by that principle.

I might finally give QC a try in two years when I buy my Zen 3.

By then the game may have fixed all it's flaws.

Unfortunately it will be 17 players playing, so I would rather go to QL and play with the 9 players playing (and hopefully the change to a new computer fixes the current FPS hickups and insta freezes, if not, then I will go and play with the 3 players playing OSP, thanks TardError).

You're also free to not play it.

I'm willing to play the game while I have a break at work (especially since it is free now) but of all the computers I have at home & work, none of them can run quake champions because it requires windows. I don't want to buy windows just to play the game. Maybe if it eventually runs smoothly on wine I will come play :) but I will have to wait a bit. I don't think they are going to port the game on linux and or macOS

they didn't even bother to port DOOM (the new one) to linux, even tho it used Vulkan. According to Dustin Land, a developer at id Software:

"So we did Linux dedicated servers for Doom 2016 and a few of us who are Linux heads in the studio decided, let's take it the full way. All we had to do was change the surface that we are creating for the Linux version and it just ran, out of the box and performance was equivalent. Having a small driver actually helps a lot there."

you can tell how little fucks are given if some devs port the game with zero effort but the client isn't released and supported.
So no chance to see a Quake port at all

I didn't know id even bothered with having a client run on linux for doom 2016. That's too bad they don't release what they've done, even if it would be just a binary with little or no technical support.

You don't need to buy it if you can find it for free right? :p

that's an option yeah, or I can borrow a license from someone probably. to be honest I think the biggest obstacle is me being too lazy to restart to play :-D

if you manage to start it and play without crashes, it is really fun imo and the game has improved a lot the last year. They might be stubborn to their initial bad ideas, but then reality hits them and they eventually listen to the community

performance remains as the game's biggest weakness. if you are lucky to have a combination of PC, windows, internet connection, and drivers that run it without crashes, you will most probably enjoy it a lot.

ctrl+f tayski

1/84

I own this place.

This is basically an admission of defeat from id/bethesda.

Going free permanently before even the fake "official" release.

At least while they were switching back and forth between paid/free it was clear they were using the old, shameless tactic they also used in quake live to wait for people to pay to get the game, then going free for a limited period to thicken the playerbase, then paid again ,rinse and repeat, it showed they still had hopes quake champions' playerbase could substain itself.

It clearly can't. The game would have been dead by the end of the year, without. With 45 mins queues.

So this is what ESR been reduced too..

People creating multiple accounts, start a thread and argue with himself in his own thread over multiple accounts..

I read this comment a few times like maybe I missed something?

I made this thread and I dont have any alt accounts.

I made thread because this is the final free release of QC is it not? Or do we need to wait for Early access to end for that.

ha, don't sweat it, check the poster's name out...

he can't read

Awww you are so adorable with that reply

Maybe I should play along for amusement and pretend to be offended and bait you into an online argument. Then you can go run to mommy..

Be original for once in life. But I guess that is too much to ask for in this day and age

oh i don't know... i thought it was a mildly amusing observation

you have the right to bait me into an online argument but esr is running low on use space after tayski used up all the internet here lately

Tayski and the rest of his multiple personalities seems to have taken control of ESR. So pretty much every thread that pops up now is made by him. Hence my reply here

And yes ESR is running low on space. Times of finding good threads and useful topics are gone.

I've only made a total of like 6 threads since 2011, the last one being from May 2017 so stop talking shit.

You carry your name so well that you can't even differentiate a thread from a comment, and don't understand the concept of GDPR or why qlstats has to oblige to GDPR.

Fucking ignorant moron.

Oh my bad then? Some people tend to make alts, start a POINTLESS thread like this just to talk to himself cause he thinks he is the center of the universe.

Happened plenty of times before

usual... bump ---> steep downhill

https://steamcharts.com/app/611500

Avg. Players: 2600

Amount of smurfs: 800
Amount of Twitch Thot's: 100
Pro Scene: 40
Regular players: 200
Bots: 180
Tayski and other id/saber staff: 20
Sabers botnet to troll world into believing playercount: 1260 nodes

^

Prognosis: The 15k bump from mid-June will never be reached again.

this thread is basically a conversation between tayski and others. didnt read

ye and I wish I hadn't bothered with that idiot, my bad

is he famous for having endless conversations or something ? (and alt accounts ?)

No it's just one day he snapped when he saw the next post slandering QC and decided to fight back on every single post that is condescending towards qc on esr, which is every single post on esr.

He is the Quake lover who loves Quake Champions

also relevant: http://www.esreality.com/post/2872857/quake-g...h-getting/

I don't love Quake, I just enjoy it.

I don't love QC, I just survive it.

Or simply decided to challenge the common hateful opinions of the majority here for a laugh.

I could have just tagged along to the "fuck QC", "fuck id", "fuck those who play QC", "QC isn't Quake", "bring back Q3 and QL" type of comments just to fit in and get some easy [+]'s but those comments are all too common and getting a bit repetitive and sad, just like their writers.

Personally I find it quite pathetic for people who supposedly hate something to keeping going on about it on a daily basis with just flame without ever feeling like maybe they should just move on. That's exactly those type of people I decided to start replying to :)

This comment from GUARD is basically also my view on the whole thing: http://esreality.com/post/2922464/is-now-free-to-play/#pid2923177

You're even more of an idiot for responding in the first place, but apology accepted.

Also, why would I need alt accounts? So that I can go against popular opinion or troll without damaging the reputation of my other "serious" accounts? I've been on here since 2006 and don't need alt accounts when I feel like exposing and taking the piss out of a bunch of salty nerds.

Good, so now go and do one.

Calling that a "conversation" is quite stretching it.

This thread is more popular than Quake Champions.

Tayski, The game has 6/10 on steam @ over 17k reviews which means its widely perceived as poor by the only people who matter.
Secondly, it is a poor quake game by the opinions of most experts.

You can;t say this game runs well, or has pure game play.
Those are the two staples of a quake game, this has neither.

Secondly, the player and retention data shows the game was virtually dead just after Christmas despite having 1.2 million bucks put into it in as prize money.

The only time it peaks is when they give it away, but the data shows they go almost as fast as they came.

in the meantime, the game is a money pitt.

Prize Money, Dev Costs, and ongoing server costs, they must be in the hole for 4+ million easy.

And with ongoing server costs @ +20mb per 10 min game per user, that's not going to come cheap either. I assure you, unless they have some kind of master plan for this, its going to end on the scrap heap.

Basically at this point, it looks really bad, it did this time last year, but at least they had time on their side, they could get away with the luxury of "its still early days". 12 months on, that no longer cuts it.

if I was id I would simply approach other devs with big franchises and make FPS games of their IP like street fighter and mortal kombat, that is the ONLY way they make a dime out of this game and redeem their shame,

If anyone from id wants to hire me, its going to be a 100k or bust guys.

Hey Tayski, the mighty Jamerio is addressing you personally. Now you made it here on Esr. Congratz

That's the ESR equivalent of winning a BAFTA. Holy shit.

and he does not even reply. he is missing out here for sure

lmao... I found this thread and created an account so I can comment. Me personally, I found the game shit at launch, I quit for 6 months and someone told me the latest patch made huge difference to netcode. I reinstalled and he was right. I've been smashing it ever since. I feel its as smooth as QL now so I dont play QL anymore. That game was ruined anyway, the day they took away the tier system on clan arena and move to steam.

Regarding the negative reviews, taking into account some people reviewed when the game came out and it was poor back then. Also recently its free so you have window lickers who probably play minecraft get tilted from getting rekt and leave a review. I think anyone who hasn't tried it in 6 months should give the game another go.

Funny thing is the game doesn't need all you whiners to come back to be popular.. its doing just fine and you guys are missing out xD

problem is, we are too spoiled by betterness

Imagine creating an account to post this...

6/10 troll

not bad but not great

Hi SyncError.

shit is funny