that intro is cringe

yes, if you're 12 :>

I mean the first 5 seconds

yep, me too.

autism

That changes everything!

Four Q3/QL players? Is that some kind of joke?

You do realise that duel in QW and Q2 is A LOT more arcane, and it's where most of the foundation for modern duel was forged. Also, Rapha seems to be claiming a lot of the concepts he is talking about were established in Q3 which is false; for example, Zero4 playing the opponent instead of the map. That whole concept was around long before Q3. There were a whole two generations of players before that; don't you think they would have figured that out?

A real Mount Rushmore of Quake would be something like: Thresh, Blue, Lakerman, and maybe Shub, though I'm not sure about the fourth.

You're the joke here, he's probably so young that he never played the first two games seriously, so how could they have influenced his play?

That's no excuse.

Q2 fanboy here.

Protip: Nobody really cares cares how allegedly 'old school' or 'hardcore' you are.

You are projecting your own ego on him. He shared some really interesting insight about the topic, obviously subjective, and all you do is discredit his...ego? You are a shameful personality.

Here's a rough outline of the intro:

"The downside of that okay, is whenever anyone uses that concept in the context of sport, so for example the nba mount rushmore, people will always make the mistake of thinking that means it has to be the 4 best players ever and whoever you put there is wrong."

"So the whole point for me instead is that these are four people that someone picks in whatever category, so in you're case Quake Duel, and these are four people of whom to you are significant - so there's something about them that's meaningful or unique, and that can be from any angle you want to take on it."

"The idea really for the viewers, is that really it's just a way for us to nerd out a bit about some cool players and specifically from Rapha's point of view, what did he think about them."

Did you even listen to it? That kind of set the scene...

Of course it's subjective, but that's not really the point here.

There is far too much "These people are the best QUAKE players of all time" going around, when for someone like Rapha, though clearly a reasonably smart fellow and a capable dueller, who is relatively new-school stating such things is ignorance. There is one simple law of player development in Quake: a player is only as good as his environment allows. Now I'm not suggesting Rapha couldn't be good at QW or Q2, because he certainly has the correct mindset to take them on, but they are completely different beasts: a lot more brutal and unforgiving with a lot more strategic depth.

Maybe the title should say "Q3/QL Mount Rushmore", and then it'll be more rational.

It was about players that influenced him specifically. That was made pretty clear. :D

You really are brain damaged.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duel

m8 fox owned most of the qw and cpm players while playing just for pure fun

u have no clue of what u r talking about and I am sure a player of rapha's calibre could own hard most of the players in those games

It's about who he feels influenced him the most, not who are the all time pioneers of quake.

"discuss the four duellers that rapha considers to have influenced his game the most."

Then why is it called the Mount Rushmore of Quake players?

The title doesn't represent the content. If it did then everything I said would be completely valid. If you're going to use iconic concepts to glorify players then do it without peddling a subjective approach with few relative comparisons.

Basically, it's too arbitrary for something as significant as Mount Rushmore.

You do realize the four presidents on Mount Rushmore were chosen arbitrarily by their sculptor?

No they weren't. They were chosen to represent the United States' origins and values, but the landmark itself was made for tourist reasons.

But that's still not the point ...

They were chosen, arbitrarily, by their sculptor, based on his own personal, subjective opinion, on which presidents, in his view, helped preserve the Republic and expand its territory.

It's entirely the point.

Preserve the Republic and expand it's territory.

They are not personal, subjective opinions, they are choices based on historical facts, but now maybe you'll start to understand what I'm getting at.

Rapha is the sculptor, and he is being asked by Thorin which four Quake duellers he would choose to place on his own hypothetical Mount Rushmore, based on how much he personally thinks they influenced him as a player, just like Gutzon Borglum selected the four presidents to place on the real Mount Rushmore, based on how much he personally thought they helped preserve the Republic.

If you still don't understand why the video is titled like it is... I don't know what to say.

Then why did you even comment if you didn't understand what i was talking about? All people have tried to do is shroud the incompetence of inaccurate marketing and the misuse of iconic status by peddling some subjective angle.

If you want to make a Mount Rushmore for "Quake" players then use credible players from across all games that have refined and evolved the foundations of Quake that we all benefit from.

If you want someone's subjective view on players from Q3/QL then make sure the topic entails that. Don't try to glorify someone's subjective views by comparing them to an iconic monument of individuals that actually made significant contributions to their cause. It's totally contradictory.

End of discussion.

rofl I think I get it now. If you're mad at Thorin for using the same old shitty marketing schemes for hyping up his content and trying to get as many views as possible, I agree.

To be honest he's been doing it for so long I stopped noticing. I haven't actually watched any of Thorin's tripe in years... a real shame this time because I love listening to Rapha.

That's half the reason, but the main point is that he's taking things out of context so to speak. Is it the "Mount Rushmore of Great Quakers" or is it "Rapha's Top 4 Favourite Duellers from the Q3/QL Era"? Make up your mind, Thorin!

The title and the even the whole conversation has a backhanded intention. Like I said, people are forcing a "subjective" angle to justify it. It's like buying a Blu-Ray player and then finding out it only plays DVDs, and then someone from the store saying: "well it depends on what your opinion of a Blu-Ray is -- a disc is a disc!"

As if people were watching Rapha talk about Quake just because the video is called Mount Rushmore. Come on mate, I don't give a fuck what the video is called and I watch the video based on who's being interviewed.

well I did. Guess I expected too much.

i think you have been in a time machine traveling 20 years into the future. now that you are here you wonder who all those unknown players like rapha are competing with the heros of your time 20 years in the past and you think, this cannot be true, i have to fight this here, on ESR. nice bro, keep going.

Or maybe I just acknowledge the realities of Quake that people tend to ignore due to inexperience, bias or straight up ignorance.

mostly ignorance on your part

if you had a clue, you would had be keeping notes when rapha is speaking, would be offering free massages to cooller and wanting your daughter to marry cypher, but no clue whatsoever

Oh, really ... and why is that?

I don't think you realise that your reply encompasses pretty much everything I said.

You always react with frustration and rage when somebody has a different opinion, I guess the status doesnt live to the actual person ((

Fun fact: The guy is right that the mount rushmore thing isnt arbitary, but for some reason you want to get a dicussion about semantics going.

Fun fact: it took Tim under three minutes to create Mount Rushmore. Two minutes longer than it took him to fix the SNG Q3 skin unlock bug in Quake Champions. What a guy.

give it a few years. rapha will have invented every quake technique.
guys so arrogant.

You're taking this way too seriously, get a fucking life.

Also, the Mount Rushmore isn't the best 4 US presidents, they're just some which were really good and inspirational.

you are writing the same as the other gays before you

Please stop responding to my comments with useless shit, I've had 5 different notifications about those useless replies from you just from last night :/

have another useless notification

at least it's only 1, not 5.

ok now it's my try.

All the players rapha mentioned were objectively way better players skill-wise than those you mentioned, as well as having competed in way more competitive times, and earning way more world championships and money than them.

At the end of the day you put evil vs. any of "your" players, at any Quake game, and it's at least a 30-0 score. And in terms of accomplishments, cypher literally has about 10x more world championships than thresh does. Pre 2000s Quake only had one relevant tournament, whereas since Q3 there's at least 4 a year.

It's like watching fatality play. In QL he literally was 1400 elo, so not Mount Rushmore material whatsoever. My money would be on Jamerio beating him in QC.

BTW, Rapha is by faaaaar the best Quake player ever.

i think a case could be made for milton

pretty off-topic but I was watching some group stage demos of evil from dh2012 summer from trance.gg last night - was interesting to see fire_bot perform well vs evil and ins take a map :}

That's kind of laughable but what's the point even explaining how wrong you are.

Took evil almost 10 years to win an international lan (and lots of pros were already retired), and still never won a qcon vs rapha and cypher with visa problem, he did nothing in qc.
For a random quake game i would pick someone else

I don't think it's really fair to say it took him 10 years to win an international LAN... It was like only his 3rd one.

He just couldn't attend them when he was young. But in the Russian LANs he proved to be pretty good back in Quake 3.

And on the LAN he won, he beat (in a row) : K1llsen, Spart1e, Cypher, Rapha.

You can undermine his accomplishments all you want, but you at least can't undermine that particular win. That was quite something.

Im not criticising evil career or skill, his peak is top notch (top3 with rapha and cypher) but he started to win later than others (he's one year older than rapha).
It was easy to predict a good qc career considering his level and style of the new game, but it's not happening, dunno if he's still in tryhard mode hidden under fake account or just quit progaming because busy irl

rapha is a good duel player. He never competed in T1 TDM and by started winning CTF LANs when the scene had been dead for a decade.

czm is the god of Quake.

If being a complete player is the criteria (including games that never had a pro scene), then tox is the best Quake player ever. He won the only tournament that included all Quakes.

I don't think that's a meaningful comparison as you're expanding the game being played from one to four, granted you may still be right. However, in Quake 3 / Quake Live lineage czm is the onlyplayer that I can think of which excelled in all modes against the very best competition.

We all know fox got robbed on that one! q4 as the tiebreaker bullshit!

the "forces of the universe" wanted it to be like that.

His point was the inaccuracy of the title. Rapha is a player from a certain era and only comments on players from a certain era. Yet the title implies something else. Besides, its the guys right to express his opinion. He even gives insight and arguments. Yet all you can come up with is speculation based on one single player (fatal1ty).
The guy converses like an actual person, you however just suck raphas dick. I thought you have wife and kids, are they ok with that?

Do you think people retroactively remove Maradonna from Hall of Fames just because football was a completely different game back then? No, they get the credit they deserve, thats the point of a Mount Rushmore.

In football there are lines drawn too. For example no one mentions players from before 1950, probably because it was mostly amateur back then no matter that three world cups had been played already, just like Quake used to be super amateur before the 2000s.

And lets not forget Fatality only won two non-local tournaments in Q3 (Razer CPL and CPL Cologne) and none that could be considered a world cup of sorts like winning a Quakecon. There's literally at least 50 players that have more and greater achievements in Quake than he had. He's not the Maradona of Quake by any means.

https://www.esportsearnings.com/players/1139-...ts-by-game

Football pre 1950 is largely ignored because people had other shit to care about, like TWO FUCKING WORLD WARS. All the best men went to war, and didnt play football, football wasnt really a top priority then.

With the releases of Q1/Q2 however, you had all the smartest nerds in the world lined up waiting to play these technologically groundbreaking games.

About fatal1ty: Why do you keep bringing that up? Do you suddenly forget what the conversation is about? Use your brain, geez. Even if Fatal1ty sucked hard in QL, it doesnt mean that he (or any other oldschool "legends") shouldnt get the credit for what they achieved in their respective era. Thats literally all that myrmydon said. A representative Mount Rushmore across all eras of Quake.

But the best thing about this is that even tho you ignore the topic and modify it to your liking, you are still far from being right. You come to conclusions based on a single player. Fatal1ty wasnt good at QL, so thats why all the others suck too? Great logic. Besides, fatal1ty didnt seem to be very active in QL, did he?

just like tim invented multiplayer ;)

Thresh, Fatality, Zero4, Cooller, Rapha.

If we are talking duel mount rushmore +1

Myrmidon if u listen carefully he says it in the beginning: Thresh -> Makaveli -> Zero4 . so he knows perfectly thatThresh and Makaveli were the influencers for Zero4. Don't cry.

this thread has potential

i am always in for some entertainment. keep breeding guys

tldr anyone?

z4, coler, seiffer, evil

2004-2006 top form czm will 30-0 all of them (including rapha) on aerowalk.

one map wonder

aerowalk is wonderful

only guy to come back on dm6 when everyone else whined like a bitch and said it couldn't be done.

who is seiffer? k1llsen?

cypher, say it out loud

Say what you will about Rapha, but I really enjoy listening to him talk about quake.

You sound like he's some controversial character rather than a celebrated player :D

Thorin really grows on you.

this needs a picture to be appropriately imaginable.

Thorin wearing a 2 cock t-shirt at the end...?

How did this guy talk for 90min and not mention winD once?! Wow.

Have some respect
15y old boy decapitates himself after losing video game

you are a winD fanboy

No fanboy, just facts. winD changed the game. He innovated and revolutionized every aspect of the game play. He's basically the Tim Willits of quake players.

top 10 for alt rock atm in the USA charts

http://www.aeesports.pro/articles/news/genera...ettledown/

i'm sure you understand

hes surely just fucking with us now, isnt he? He cant expect anybody to believe that shit. Or did he just take the piss from the very beginning?

good post! it's very helpful informartion for us. Everything is interesting. thanks for sharing this information with us. Keep it continue. custom pillow boxes

I c Wut u did thar :Ddd

I sincerely think his own mind believes it, his delusions are a custom religion that keeps his spirits up

http://www.aeesports.pro/articles/news/gaming...nizations/

he's even advertised his esports coaching in a local sport programme :D

Yea, I have a feeling hes serious too, but its quite unbelievable. I watched the 3min video in your link, his eyes tell me that hes on drugs, but im not an expert :Dd

I llike the term "custom religion" man, even tho i dont fully get it :D B

I never thought of it in that light, but it could be shizophrenia and/or dissociative (=multiple) identity disorder.

MVP of this thread: Myrmidon^

thats a understatement

give a break to the guy pls

he was frozen as a part of an experiment almost 20 years ago

The respect rapha has for the four is just amazing. Listening to this really is quake porn

Is that a way of telling us that you had a quick go on your joystick?

sorta?

This really resonated with me. I have no clue of what happened before, and am barely following QC, but this is the part of Quake I loved.

Miss seeing your name in the community, but I understand :(

Thanks rapha, you inspire me too!

It's interesting to hear rapha explain how he wouldn't show up in certain rooms because of his hunch feeling. Always found it weird in some of his older iem era games how he had control but he wouldn't show up for the ra, I guess this explains it. I remember in a old iview rapha was talking about how he found some of evils aggression odd and made no sense. And I've heard cypher say something similar in that evil has a switch where he will go aggressive sometimes even if it doesn't make much sense. I guess rapha is like the opposite of evil in that regard.

rapha always had this safe approach to playing from the bottom position. mainly just taking small fights to steal items everywhere. evil though, he fucking rolled everyone in his own way. he had some vicious pressure with his aggression. every time you start taking damage, situations get denied from you, and I guess he recognized that if he maintained that pressure long enough, it would just deny too many options. that is hard to adapt to as well, with your plans having to change so rapidly, mistakes are made.

rapha though, he is in the opponent's head, thinking about the options of the opponent, and setting traps on them. even just giving himself positioning to trap multiple things was enough to get into people's heads. anyone who was able to read opponent's movement well enough knew that rapha was doing this constantly during map control.

four coollers