first 5 mins were OK but then he totally lost the plot

All he had to say was "It's too Hero Shooter to live, but too Arena FPS to die."

I assumed the game was going to be a Quake Hero Shooter with Champions, all with their respective weapons locked to their kits and abilities. Instead all Champions share the same weapons so it creates situations where Flank characters can wield every weapon, while Tank characters are still able to fly around the map.

I don't really like hero shooters, or that model, but without it being a pure Hero Shooter then all the Champions and their abilities muddle up the pure Arena aspect.

It's too much of each genre, but not enough of either one solely. They should have just picked one and then alienated whichever side, instead of trying to combine both.

those guys for sure never had such deep thoughts. more like stumbling over a donut landing with the face on another one which is filled with lsd and cocain and then talking hard to understand things which another employee there writes down being on acid thinking he is listening to a talking donut.

because

looks good.
better than the original

There's many reasons why the game hasn't been successful. The game market in general is too saturated nowadays which means there is a lot of competition between MP games vying for healthy player bases in numbers and most people don't have enough time to dedicate most of their gaming time to a single game. There are a few games at the top and the rest are fighting over the scraps. The market is a lot different now then it was in the 1990's. You have to set yourself apart from other multiplayer titles and there is very little room for failure (see Lawbreakers). It also doesn't help that the Quake fanbase is much older now and most young people are more into games like Fortnite and Overwatch. Also the game doesn't lend itself to being much of a social game where you play with your friends, and the lack of dedicated servers doesn't help here. After almost 20 years since Q3, it's mostly just a weak sequel that isn't very innovative, doesn't really offer anything new, and is a worse game in almost every way compared to Q3/QL.

Spot on. A lot of people on here fail to admit that arena FPS is not a thing of today, it's out-fashioned and will never appeal to the masses, at least not with so many other popular games out there. It's not the early 2000's anymore.

For FPS games there are the classic series like CS, CoD, BF, L4D etc that everybody plays and on top of that you now also have OW and battle royal games.

Even innovative (and free) games like Dirty Bomb which were better designed than QC and brought something relatively new to the table didn't make it through.

db is very similar to wolfenstein et (splash damage first game, sequel of rtcw but mp only), not so original

Hence why I said "something relatively new". ET is old and dead, DB was reviving the gender with a futuristic theme, weapons, maps and characters.

It's a lot more original than yet another arena FPS game, or another WW2 game, or another battle royal game.

so the answer to fixing Arena FPS is to destroy the last popular Arena FPS game into dust.

Yup and you’re not allowed to cry about it either.

"Also the game doesn't lend itself to being much of a social game where you play with your friends"

This part is the biggest reason imo

The one who plays Quake walks alone. He has no friends, only opponents, If one needs friends one should go outside. Not sitting behind a computer.

That's if you're a dueller or FFA'er, some people prefer TDM and CTF.

QC was designed to be a team brawler but failed to become one.

It's still a team brawl when everybody allies together to attack the developers on forums and social media.

;((((((((

"everybody allies together to attack the developer"

What are we supposed to do, dumbo, wait in line to criticize a public company one at the time, to "make it fair"? That's the stupidest statement i've read this week.

"People are being meanies to bethesda, the richest game company in the world, boohoo"

No, "dumbo", but crying on ESR isn't gonna get you anything apart from maybe some sympathy from the other upset nerds wandering around here.

You call my statement stupid while it's just a reality, and no one talked about being fair to them so I don't know what you even get that from. I'm pointing at a fact and obviously you're getting agitated by it.

Also if you understand the concept of a thread, butcher_kgp talked about QC trying to be a team brawler but failed, and I jokingly said it still kinda is when people team up to brawl against the developers. But of course you're one of those emotional dudes that get upset by even the slightest dig at them while happy to dish out harsh comments about developers and other people. Funny how flame and digs can only go one way with socially awkward specimen like you.

But since you're asking me what you should do, I can give you a hand and help you. Just move the fuck along to whatever is better than QC if you're not happy as Bethesda doesn't give a fuck about you, your opinion or your salty tears. I'm not speaking on their behalf, but I think by now they've already made it quite clear how much they care about people on ESR. UL m8

So if what we say on this little forum means so little to the great bethesda, why do you get so mad whenever anyone dares say anything not positive regarding qc?

It doesn't seem possible for you to say two consecutive phrases that don't contraddict each other.

I don't get mad. I don't even defend QC. But I enjoy putting nerds who take too many liberties back in their place, especially when making false accusations about the game, its developers or its players or flaming without real reasons. Shame for you that you can't differentiate the two.

I don't mind people pointing out at bad things about QC, hell there's a lot to talk about. It's just some of the non sense and the easy flaming I like to respond to.

You're one of those guys I like to put in that category of sad nerds who constantly cry and complain on ESR because they have nothing else going, and anyone who dares not agreeing with them means they're a QC or Bethesda lover.

You don't just get mad, you reek of desperation in every post of yours.

You get so mad every time anyone posts even just a rational criticism of the countless retarded aspects of that crap game and yet you pretend to call others nerd. You're the nerd fighting like a desperate for a game that's a broken mess of a spaghetti code, the only question is, why?

You're clearly too delusional and socially disadapted to be a shill, so the main option left is you love this game so much because you fap to nyx and slash and it's the only "quake" game where you actually have the chance to kill someone if they're in front of you when you press "F".

I am mad and I reek desperation, that's new to me.

Desperation for what exactly?

I'm not trying to convince someone like you who can only see black and white. That would be a wasted effort.

Hell, I posted a joke about people teaming up on Bethesda and you still had to reply to call me names and trying to argue that joke. You're not just desperate, you're pathetic. I mean you even created a thread to shit on clawz because he's aim heavy and just lost to Rapha. You've got so much hate in you that's it's actually quite sad. Get a grip boy.

If you knew a bit more about me, you'd know that I actually barely play QC. On top of that, one of the things that has put me off the game even more than how badly coded it is, is actually the insta-kill abilities and especially Death Knight's before the nerf. The opposite of what you're assuming here.

How can you even talk about people's skills on a game when you are reluctant to communicate your in-game name on here and even admit that you aren't good at quake.

I never argue rational criticism or any of the issues the game actually has, again that's where you're just making stuff up.

See, your problem is that you can't quite figure me out so in order to make it easy for yourself and your simple mind you just categorise me as a QC lover and Bethesda defender, which ironically that can't be further from the reality.

I honestly don't understand how can you write that you're not a bethesda defender and expect anyone to not laugh

"crying on ESR isn't gonna get you anything" Doing anything anywhere won't get anything done with developers who are ignorant and clueless, so ppl might as well just bash them, they deserve it.

Remember, players have been complaining about trash visibility for almost 2 years before their highnesses finally bothered to implement an outline color picker. Before that their reaction to "plz, too much visual clutter" was actually adding even more visual clutter, more LG bloom, and a huge blood splash, as if they hate the players and go out of their way to troll them.

Grow up.

Says the dude who cries on forums about a game.

Can you point to a post of mine where I was crying about Quake Champions?

Sure, go to your profile and check the comments history.

Damn, you are one stupid person.

I was so desperately looking forward to hearing your assessment. Or maybe not?

What about Hearthstone, it is pretty much you-against-the-world game, and it is still a successful title.

The more difficult the less people.

They should have made QC for us. But i dont want to play it because its a worse game in most regards.

The first impulse they had at id to take QL was a glimpse of hope, but add elo, ladders, tourneys. All the things that were suggested years over years. Things a hardcore gamer needs. Because this is the audience. We do not game to relax or to feel great, we game to work on ourselves. To become better. To feel ourselves. We don't lie to ourselves. We want the truth. Not loot boxes.

Maybe you should try real sports instead, you can do everything you just mentioned.

I can't shoot people IRL :(

You can, there's paintballing and airsoft for instance.

Not a huge CoD fan!

or the USA

but you can compete in real sports and play "competitive" computer games too.. why does it have to be one or the other?

I'm not saying it has to be one or the other, but if someone's looking for "tourneys", "feeling great", "working on oneself", "becoming better", "feeling yourself", "not lie to yourself" and "have truth", taking up a sport is a good suggestion.

Unless you're waiting for the QC devs to listen to you instead.

*edit* Although to be honest, most people who take up a sport seriously and compete in it will probably not be interested nor have time and energy to focus tons of time to compete seriously on video games. I can't speak for everybody, but I know I don't have time or interest to become the best at a game when I'm competing.

Good luck competing at a high level in any sport you didnt start at age 7

You can compete at a high level as an amateur in any sport even if you didn't start as a kind. If you want to become a professional in that sport that's a different story though - even though not impossible.

Maybe you should try having a relationship with a girl, you can advise her in everything that comes to your mind.

What a come back. Did you think of that one yourself?

I've already got a longtime gf, but thanks for the tip.

no. i have to admit that you inspired me.

With 30k people watching streams and 2k playing it's clear Bethesda or whoever in charge of the Quake IP must admit Quake is an elitist game and people may be interested on it even if they don't practice it (just like tons of people watch mma of formula 1 but they don't practice them).

With QL it was the same, big finals many viewers in twtich compared to actual people playing.

Drop the champions bullshit and give us a proper QL update.

Same boring shit. Different day

The game is just awful, that could be why.

ID could be doing so much more for their game.

The only mode where QC could have worked is CTF for me, because there are kind of clear positions where the abilities could have helped. Attack: Anarki/Nyx, Mid: Sarge/Visor/Doom/Galena, Def: Clutch/Slash/Galena or something. That could have been kinda interesting.

agreed, CTF has a potential to be fun with abilities and champions. It's coming to QC soon:


History has taught me not to get too excited tho, too many major flaws in this game at the moment and they will probably fuck ctf up somehow. I'm afraid that the next champion, the turret ginger, might be one of the things that will make CTF less enjoyable https://imgur.com/a/T2mHn6P#9j6exeB

More than that the problem is by the time CTF is released most people will have left QC already. At this point only a BR gametype could save this, because after the F2P release that already happened there's no reason for a new player to start playing QC, as it's a dying game with a 69% rating.

https://steamcharts.com/app/611500
https://store.steampowered.com/app/611500/Quake_Champions/

I mean sure the game is getting better but it's way too late. Two years ago the game should have been in the state it is today and be fully shipped by late 2016 with CTF included, not Sacrifice. Or at least the game should have been as good as it is today (not finished but getting there) by the time QC appeared on E3's main stage in June, which is the biggest advertisement and playerbase peak this game will ever get but people that tried the game at that time got to play a flawed release so they have already left and also left a negative review too (playlists, many technical issues, no team based casual gametype).

wmo

That's why I said 'could have' and not 'will'. ;)

This game never had for more than a few days even the quarter of the player number that would be considered flat dead by F2P standards.

The simplest answer: It is a bad product.

Yup, Occam's razor and all that, it's technically bad and not fun to play.

why are all the good players skipping streaming days in sync?

monday everyone played.
tuesday nothing.
wednesday many played.
today nothing again...

Illuminati

difficulty is not the reason why quake is dead.

qc being average game with a shitty engine riddled with tech issues is probably the main reason.

Waiting for id to realise that every single Quake that wasn't developed in house failed miserably. Anyway they should've gone the Battle Royale route instead of Overwatch if they wanted to make a quick buck and drag the Quake name through mud.

Quake is dead.

the technical state of the game isnt bad now, it is a good game for us old school quake players, only the skillcurve is the problem, if they dont manage to keep the nonquakers in the nonquakergroups most newbies will give up, because they just didnt train the core mechanics for years and they prolly need at least 6 months to get a core understanding

it's easy to just bash abilities and champions, but that's only part of the issue. the real reason why qc is failing to integrate more new players is the same reason why the quake series, the ut series, reflex, warsow, xonotic etc are failing to do so. they are all designed to be extremely punishing to take damage in, and extremely punishing to die.

the conscious experience of moving around with 125/0 as a new player, when you haven't even the basic grasp of movement and aim, is so horrible that players immediately switch to ca. even ca has flaws, but at least they have a chance to do something before they are inevitably destroyed, and this is what a lot of players misunderstand about ca. they are so caught up in "brainless ca come top lg" with no attack and defend roles, and "boring 1v4 +back rjs", and seem to ignore that ca has a beefy starting stack that lets them experience more fights in those games than the 30:0 stomps they will take from czm.

add to the fact that most of these games are dead, and you will play infrequently against tilted guys that will shit talk you if you lose, and then also put their losses on you being dumb if you win, and it's no wonder why so few stick around.

if you really want more new players, you have to make every gametype less punishing to take damage in, giving the opponent more chances to fight back. i'm not going to make any of these suggestions for ctf, because i don't play arena fps for ctf.


1) give people starting stacks: i'd like to see 125/100 to begin with, that way they can absorb a rail and rocket off the spawn and not die. qc has already done this, but they've done it with heavy champions only.

2) allow people to choose their spawns, ut4 has already done this, and it reduces spawnrape to a degree as the player has to guess between 2 potential spawn locations that his opponent could pick. it also makes early game spawns easier to balance, as they are no longer random but can be assigned to each map, so that you don't have things like spawning on gl in t7.

3) make 2 ya maps the standard for duel. this one is obvious, 2 ya maps are more fun to play and watch than other maps, because there is always that opportunity to listen to your opponent, go to the opposite side, and restack rather quickly. ztn and t7 are prime examples of this.


this would take away a lot of the punishment of dying, allow people to take more risky damage exchanges, and give players more chances to come back. control tends to matter less, you have a little bit more armor to fight with, but not a crazy stack advantage, and the same is true when you die and have to play against your opponent.

it would be extremely unpopular with all of the fans of the original versions, but at the same time by implementing these changes, any one of these games with a modern engine, nice aesthetic, working netcode and sound would be more popular with new players then as they are now.

qc, on the other hand, has a crazy fetish for buffing and adding new sources of damage. the 2 tier machine guns, the 2 tier shotguns, the tribolt, the rl that's 200 ups faster than vq3 yet still does 100 dmg, 90 dmg rail instead of 80. hopefully someone else will comment on the lg and nailgun to see where they stand. but in general, combining these weapons with the damage abilities just makes the game feel like it has a lower time to kill, which isn't a good thing. they shouldn't be trying to make that kind of game where it's punishing to get hit or die, especially when they already lowered a lot of the finesse involved in taking fights.

another thing to consider is that realistically, id software loses nothing much from this title failing. they will easily recoup the losses by releasing rage 2, doom eternal, and the new wolfenstein 2 expansion. at best, they have to worry about the cost of keeping up servers, but other then that their financial future is not tied to qc in any way. if it does fail though, and they wait another 5-8 years to release another quake, the series is done for, just like tribes is after the failures of both tribes ascend and tribes vengeance before it. and again, hi-rez kept it going with smite, irrational games on the other hand released bioshock.

The only way to introduce newcomers to more competitive modes is to teach them step by step. There is no other way around it.

Mutilating the gameplay and adding some shitty crutches doesnt solve anything.
Loadouts, autohop, spawn protection, pie timers, hmg, abilities, none of these taught anyone how to play quake. On the contrary, new players dont know how to properly use these, while quakers abuse them. And your +100 starting stack will make good players unkillable while noobs will still keep getting murdered, its just gonna take one more rocket. How does this help?

Both ql and qc failed miserably in providing a safe zone for noobs, meaning fun mods where they could learn the basics of quake without any pressure. Co-op / defense against ai, tag (the overmind mod in ql had the right idea but wasnt very well made), any sort of team thing with an objective (domination).

Luckily, 2gd and his team seem to have common sense and made some good work in this already, as it seems from the streams.

i wish diabotical the best, i'm more than happy to keep playing the games as they are, because i like games where i only have to put in 10-15 minutes a match, when i can leave whenever i want without mm punishments for leaving games, where i can host servers wherever i want to get the best ping.

but most new people will not play any of these games, even if you had the best tutorial, and game modes for new players. i mean think about it yourself, would you spend the time at present to get into quake 2, having to relearn movement, aim, dodging, positioning, item control and team play in order to play tdm, ctf, or duel? would you do it for quakeworld? would you do it for quake 4, or even ut4, cpma, warsow, reflex, xonotic etc?

the answer is probably no. probably because the gameplay of some of these titles turns you off, probably because none of those games are even that active anymore, but also because it would be too fucking annoying to deal with the new player experience all over again. if they switch, they do it at a time when there is another game that is active, making it worthwhile to play.

this is also how new players feel about quake games, outside of ca the item control is extremely brutal, maybe not as stupid as creep score/level advantage in moba games like lol and dota, but certainly more so than the standard military shooters where generally speaking there is no huge health advantage. even in cs, one dink to the head and that head armor is useless.

the point with the starting stack is to make the game have less lethality, and give opponents more freedom, more chances to fail, respawn and restack back up to 100/200 with a few ya pickups and shards, and get back into the game again. if they can't do that, they deserve to be murdered, but the goal should be to raise the time to kill, because a high time to kill doesn't punish new players as much.

even now, qc would be a lot better if they weren't so caught up in the lore, the esports, if they didn't have to care about monetizing champions, and just made everyone 7ft 280 lbs freaks with a standardized hitbox and 300/300 stacks to compensate for the high amount of damage in the game from the stronger weapons and abilities.

and this is why we need mods. not everyone values the same things, and so we should be able to mold the game to each player's liking, or even create total conversion mods.

Noobs dont need bigger stack, they need to have fun. And they wont have fun if you throw them into duel, tdm or ffa. You could do that in 1999, but not today, when some people have 2 decades of accumulated quake skill and experience.

Reducing damage would be another useless change - besides, it already happened in ql. Compared to q3, u had lower mg damage in some modes, lower rail damage, smaller hitboxes and weaker lg.
Result? Noobs got raped.

In QC they tried the opposite - low stacks and high damage. Result? Noobs got raped.

This indicates that fucking up the core gameplay does nothing for newcomers, it only drives your existing userbase away. Thats why qc is getting these insanely low numbers.

Newcomers play bastard modes like ql CA (not really CA) or all weapon ffa because sadly, these are the only places where they can learn the basics without getting frustrated all too much.
Idsoft needed to change this, not change quake.

"Make the game shit so more people play it"

I play.. but i'm not enjoying it too much, mainly because my rusty PC, beside low fps its OK.

tl:dr

thread - ppl crying over qc again

the end

- meh objective game modes
- meh netcode
- mehmehmeh playtime to wait time

when you consider the type of game quake is then you add in these issues its a no brainer.

diabotical looks promising in that it has vision and attention to detail, time will tell if the market (see 7-18yr olds) will accept an ego shooter though.
my balls tell me the duel/deathmatch experience might be too intense for this group but what do i know

So original.

Complains about QC and dreams about how awesome diabotical is gonna be.

You're gonna go from disappointed to still disappointed.

guess ill join you in disappointment-ville when that time comes, where people as smart as you must reside :)

I like the game tbh!

Today I decided to watch twitch.tv/quake. Read the chat for 10 minutes and didn't see a single viewer from the QL days.

Puts things into perspective. Not only the dedicated non-professional players didn't like this new game enough, but neither the viewers. QC killed the Quake fanbase and now it's a separate thing of its own.

or oldschool players are probably wise enough to not take part in that absolute garbage that twitch chat is ?

I meant to say that even the former loyal watchers have stopped watching.

I know what you meant to say but not seeing people chat doesnt mean they aren't watching

Also there was no major event this week-end imo so you can't draw any conclusion if people aren't watching some sort of weekly cup with $100 prizepool

We used to watch cups like that every week. Those former Quake followers aren't watching those cups of the newest game.

And seems like they are neither watching the bigger events, since out of the LANs of this year only Quakecon got any timely community-coverage on this site.

what are you talking about (again) ?

The ESL Italian open had quite a bunch of viewers (I dont remem the figure but it was around 10K imo)

It's not because this website doesnt cover big events that people dont know they are happening and can't find their way to the stream you know...

And you certainly don't know who watches them (oldschool quakers or not)

You're just making assumptions all over the place

Maybe most veterans got banned for spamming: i sprayed cum everywhere 8===D~~~

Srsly q3tv (No stream with stupid commentator) was spammed so heavily you could not even read the spam. I had to turn it off and enjoyed to follow the guy I want and ofc in my desired gfx settings. I miss q3tv

Agreed.

id finally did it, they killed quake

When I see QC player numbers, my impression is that it's basically not played by anybody else than then the most patient part of long-time quakers, that would make up about 2500-ish. After debating someone on this, I went around asking people before matches whether anybody there was a newcomer to quake, did that for somewhat more than 2 dozen matches, it' not huge sample but not meaningless either. Got about 1 person saying they are new in every 3rd match, anybody else who answered said they'v been around quake for many years... so basically it does look like it's only played by long time quakers. Yep , and again the reminder QL/Q3 =/= quake, many of them were QW players f.e.

I'll que for dota and i'll que for pubg but im not gonna que for quake

You dont que for quake!

Not even for duel?

"Que" is Spanish for "what". :P

That's what happens when english speakers take up french words.

Or any foreign words for that matter.

what?

Queue ueueueueueue

Nah that cant be right.

I find its taking too long to queque duels most of all in OC region. IDK how long exactly because I give up at about 10 mins most of the time.

Tayski is a scrub.

https://steamcharts.com/cmp/611500#6m

:-(

Tried to get a quick shot last night on ffa as I would have thought that would be where the majority of players were.

I was wrong, over 2 min wait so I quit out.

Meh.

Doom Eternal may be good and what we all want.

Althought QC got actually better with the last patch I think the time is over. Its so demotivating to play the ability game. round based duel is just not fun. Tdm aka the spam game neither

I think its too late to save qc. Even if the game would be instantly bug free and everything to our desires. The train already left. QC is basicly dead and its just a question of time when developing completely stops. Netcode improvements already stopped.