2 yrs.
6 people.
unity engine
https://youtu.be/yDX_NBGJ2xM


i'll be back later.

30-40fps with only 2 players on the map...looks promising.

While using every possible feature of Unity and a gazillion effects.

One thing people often forget or don't realise is that half the reason for Quake 1/2/3's longevity wasn't just down to to the gameplay but actually the engine. IDTech was always the bleeding edge of game technology which the gaming industry would use for all their benchmarks and comparisons, ID and Bethesda have really done the series a disservice by not employing the use of IDTech. So it really is a dog in sheep's clothing.

Aye, people are treating this like a AAA title when it was clear from the get go that it's anything but.

modding also

And the lack of alternatives aswell. And its true also for ut99. Inn 99, if you wanted to play a futuristic fps online, what could you play? UT99 or Quake.
Now the audience is so spread out into PC, multiple consoles, mobiles, facebook games and so on so forth, even your fkn blender now is able to go online.
Sadly and imho, as good as UT and Quake were, it's "too hard" and the youth mentality is not eager to get bashed for entire months before performing. Plus, its so easy nowadays so go on whatever plateform and enjoy fun rapidly rewarding games that's its unlikely any Quake or UT game, as good as they can be, will ever really perform/suceed like ut99/Q3 did :((( .

It's a pig in lipstick!

You can cook up all kinds of theories as much as you want but in the end there is only one truth : arena shooters are dead.

Every arena shooter out there is dipping in low numbers and thriving on die-hard niche communities who stick to the genre. At best you get a small influx of new players but forget about mass adoption. It's simply not appealing anymore.

You can shit on this game, this engine, the company, the publisher but fact is that this is a relatively high production value game that tried to noobify as much as possible. Still failed.

"Let's put the game's bad quality in every aspect aside and blame afps.
Because I know 3 indie titles developed in someones free time without a budget to prove my point."

It's like everyone on ESR has continuously missed this point since Quake 4.

We also have nothing to suggest that a good-quality well developed arena FPS would be popular in today's environment. The last time an arena FPS game was popular was probably Quake3, and that was 20 years ago...

But what if the engine was good, and didn't feel wonky over 50-60 ping, or they didn't try to re-invent the wheel on every gametype?

Sometimes I wish someone would just create a pure Q3 AFPS, with no QL clientside netcoding, or niche gametypes like Reflex or Toxikk or Hero abilities and then prove us all wrong if it did fail

I'd rather eat truth-crow like that than continue to speculate like this, because no one's ever done it. QC is neither a pure AFPS or a pure Hero Shooter, it's too much of a hybrid of each.

But were there actually any competent attempts to create a modern arena shooter? I know only of Diabotical. All the others are either extremely niche oriented (i.e. not even trying to be not dead) hobby projects or made by people who don't know shit and don't care about arena FPS.

They're dead, but to me it seems like production issue, not consumption.

uhm - I would argue QC is a 'modern' attempt in creating an arena shooter.

And a terrible one, which is the main point of this qc vs afps discussion.

No it's not the main point, a lot of folks seem to think that afps would still be a big thing if QC was a better game. It's not .. I've been gaming since quake 1 (NQ times) and over the last decades I witnessed the clear exodus. Game over game iteration you saw the decline opposed to the ever growing popularity of everything that is arcade military themed, more strategic or less hardcore.

Quake was already becoming a niche from the moment CS gained popularity and the genre never fully recovered as experienced during the golden days.

You can argue you don't like the game but QC tried to modernize the AFPS genre by making it accessible and understandable. I'm not sure what else you can do besides releasing another straight to the point AFPS with updated graphics and a kickass engine, which is just the same stuff in a new jacket. However, you nerds worry too much about the engine .. kids nowadays are all about the experience and half of them can't even differentiate their mouse from their ass, let alone see the differences in engines.

But more importantly, the AFPS experience is not a pleasant experience anymore in an age where everything is made easy. That is the principle of an AFPS game : brutal, fast, hardcore, fast TTK but it's not what most gamers want anymore.

Not sure why we keep debating this. You would think the last 5 to 10 years speak for itself :D

There is always place for a niche product. Just we don't need QC there because it is horrible. And we will not need any other game there that is worse than Q3.

What the AFPS niche would have needed was features to be able to deal better with the hardcore-ness of AFPS. Let's say matchmaking, have tournaments, have things that i cannot think of that make things more better while facing hardcore AFPS fun.

We did not need a horrible shit version of Quake to fill our niche.

Yes a niche product - fully agree but the topic is about the failure to attract decent player numbers. I'm saying it will be the case going
forward for any AFPS and it's not because QC is a crappy game.

AFPS is exactly that, a niche with a limited player community.

It is always the same in the world. The deeper the less people.

I don't think top20 players are playing QC because of money, but because they prefer this game over others... so you probably don't need to feel sorry for them :)

I mean, the last years record breaking qcon prize pool seems minuscule compared to fortnite having the same amount every week.

I don't think top20 players are playing QC because of money, but because they prefer this game over others... so you probably don't need to feel sorry for them :)

haha, that's delusional

cheese

Wrong, then they would be playing Quakelive.

Ofc we all know they are playing qc because of easy money, but they definitely wouldn't be playing ql if there was no money in qc. They would probably play random shitty mainstream games that people play these days just for fun while trying to get a real job.

So Overwatch (all) and some would try Fortnite. No chance they would go back to QL putting nowhere near as much time as they did. I feel like ranting so I'll rant.

Top Quake players are old and lots of them don't have a profession. They have to make money so they take another "job", which for them means playing another game for money. There's nothing wrong with that. Then only some of them would play QL and only as one of their many hobbies but nothing serious or as time-consuming as before: the same we amateurs do sometimes after work.

They would choose those games because it's where they have realistic chances of winning. It's the same as all of us: we know doctors make tons of money but we can't get hired as doctors if we aren't one, so we stay doing whatever we do. Or if changing professions -in pro's case changing games- at least the idea is to switch to something they already have the core skills and talent at; not something totally different. Everybody knows Dota2 is where the big bucks are, but since Overwatch is not that different than Quake then that is Quake pros' place to go to. An electrical engineer getting an MBA is something that works well because they are related, but a lawyer taking on med school is a stupid decision, just like it would be stupid for a 30 year old Quake-only player to try to become a professional Dota2 player, or to join med school.

Essentially this is why you see things like avek being involved in drug dealing or cooller selling cars. Their mistake was going all-in into something that has no future, unless you win everything or at least win the biggest tournaments (rapha, clawz). The smart pros that didn't win everything major always had something on the side, so they ended up making lots more and not having to do menial jobs (fat, thresh, lakerman, etc.).

and why do you ignore CS:GO and mention a completely different game like dota2 ?

Because there's more money in Dota2 than in CSGO.

And you dont think there are "big bucks" in CS:GO like you said ?

Not as much as in Dota, and no Quaker has made decent money in CS anyway if at all.

ye I guess a game giving away over $19 millions in a year is something you shouldn't consider...

so let's just pick a game that has absolutely nothing to do with the FPS background you have just because it pays better (only thanks to one yearly tournament too) and fuck it if you have close to 0 chance of making it to the level required

also why do you randomly bring up the fact that no quaker has made any money in CS ?
as opposed to your list of quakers who made it in dota ?
wtf ?

His point still stands though. Those pros are on QC because they have higher chances of doing good as opposed to other franchises where they'd have to catch up with pros who have been caining it for a long time.

that wasn't the point I was addressing at all...

But what you're addressing is pointless as even if you replace Dota by CS in his comment his point still stands. You're nitpicking while it doesn't change his argument.

As far as we know not many quake players have managed to have a financially successful career outside of quake.

I have absolutely no desire in discussing with you so I'll just say what you want to hear : "yes, you're right, Tayski"

Overwatch is a weird game. The pros in that game are getting burned out quicker than any other game I've seen.

Maybe it's the way teams are structured? Maybe the faster churn of players in LoL vs Dota 2 is also due to a similar reason. The players having the power to choose their teammates might be what gives them longevity.

What do you mean the faster churn of players in LoL vs Dota 2?

I'm under the impression that players become irrelevant more quickly in LoL when compared to Dota 2.

Ahhh okay, I'm not sure as I'm only aware of Faker and Uzi from the LoL community, not sure what pro burnout is like. OW is really fast.

OW burnout rate is so fast because

1. meta changes every patch rendering your top skills on a particular hero almost useless every 6 months or so.

2. Keeping up with the korean regime. Not everyone is up to the task of korean level of nolyfing.

3. The game developers tendency to direct the game changes to more grind and brawl oriented over time instead of allowing finesse. Examples include introducing heroes like Brigette (shutting down ultimates with ana sleep dart earlier used to take skill, now every newb can do it).

I'm sure those are all factors in the burnout, but we've seen similar things in other games like Dota/LoL.

Well that would be an interesting question for an interview with a pro.

Personally, now that i've gotten so used to it, i kind of prefer QC over QL. I had a rough start but i've adapted over a few months of playing it constantly... was a similar experience when i've switched from Q2 to Q3.

You seem to be assuming they have a choice in that they could be competitive and remunerated, (or even just remotely relevant) in any other game they'd choose.




....spoiler: they cannot.

But that would sour the whole "quakers are better gamers because quake is more skilled game" argument :/

because other games dont give you the freedom to express your skills. its like taking an mma fighter and putting him in a competition where he can only use his thumbs..

porn?

The current player numbers for QC could be sufficient, from a financial perspective, to continue development of QC for the foreseeable future. Of course they'd want to be as successful as possible but it seems to me that QC was made on a tight(er) budget than games like DOOM. (Hence why QC was out-sourced for a large part of its development time and wasn't done entirely in-house. id Software has to balance resources to get the most they can with what budget they've set aside for these projects.)

Maybe it's time to start having a realistic view of how popular AFPS games can be these days. I just don't think it's a popular genre anymore. And I also agree with what storm said above about the tech. The original Quake games not only attracted people because of the gameplay but also the tech was on the bleeding edge. AFPS just isn't a genre where the bleeding edge happens anymore.

DOOM 2016 would like to have a word.

About?

Lol @ comparing Quake to other multiplayer games of today in terms of numbers of players.

Arena FPS games have been dead for a long time if you even consider that they were ever alive in terms of numbers of players in the first place.

QC could have all the things people are asking for like a smooth engine, no champion abilities, options for the community to create maps and mods, better in-game sound, etc etc and it still wouldn't even break 10k average players.

People on here who think Diabotical will change that are delusional. Maybe it will be a great game, but it just won't become popular for the simple fact that people don't play Arena FPS anymore today when there are so many other options available out there which they find more appealing.

This website alone is filled with 30 y/o Boomers or people older in that age particular

Exactly my point.

Wow, you were really emotionally scarred because you weren't concidered to be good enough to join some latter-day ql tdm "div1" dipshit clan, so much in fact that you spend a lot of your free time here white knighting a game that has very few, if any, redeemable features.

It's well established that responding to this fellow is truly 'feeding the troll'. Don't bother.

Yeah, he's a Johnny-come-lately into Quake who just can't accept that he's really not that good at it.

And you're so emotionally attached to quake that you can't stand someone who doesn't just hate on QC, and points out that Arena FPS is not a popular concept and basically a dying genre. Hopefully you get over it soon for your own health.

Nobody in their right mind thought that QC would be a raging success, what we wanted was a worthy successor to the series, but what we got is a shoddily and cheaply made hybrid that doesn't interest the old Quake fans, nor has it managed to draw in the Overwatch, etc... crowd, and because you were rejected in QL, you see the overall crappiness of QC as your small revenge against the game/scene that didn't want you, if that's not pathetic I don't know what is. Just an angry little boy who can't play tdm properly ;(

It's funny how your only point of argument is to keep mentioning that I got turned down by 1 TDM clan when asking if they needed players, even though I played TDM with other people anyway. I don't see what's so dramatic about asking people if they need a player.

You're nearly 40 and still can't let go of quake. That's why now that QC didn't reach your expectations and your previous quake games are dead you have nothing left going. Sad really.

I actually barely ever play QC, and I bet you have more hours than me on it.

"nor has it managed to draw in the Overwatch, etc... crowd"

hahahaha, so sad because we all thought that would happen. Lol

Also, as you talk like a TDM champ, what's your nickname and achievements? :)

First of all, I am not a good player, but it's irrelevant, this is not about which one of us is better, this is about the reasons which led to you spreading your verbal diahorrea all over a once-enjoyable video game site and one of the last places without any SJW faggotry.

Since you are attemping to play dumb, or maybe you are just that stupid, let me spell it out for you:

1) Tayski is turned down by clan A, instead going to play for some other team, or play pickups, pubs, whatever, he becomes raged, since he is after all the best boy in the whle wide world, his mom told him so

2) Said rage begins to rankle him to the point where thinks he's exacting his revenge by posting inane crap 24/7

Can't you see that all of blathering about emotional investment, etc... is just projection.

So you're not a good player but you try and make fun of players who casually ask a div1 team if they need players? Get a grip.

I asked a few teams at the same time, not just this specific one. And obviously you only picked up on that after Freiya's grasp for straws to try and mention anything that could potentially embarrass me. You don't know anything about it but as you have no other way to counter argument the initial point, you're just grasping for the same straws as he was. Just lol.

I was never raged in the first place, however I see how emotional you are that not everybody on this site will simply agree with you and go your way, hence why mentioning that you once enjoyed this site but now you're getting challenged and don't like it. Awww boohooh, it didn't go your way.

You know Arena FPS is dying, but you're one of those who take it personal and get upset. You're 37 dude, time to grow up.

Again with the projecting, I give up.

Hence why you tag me in your new threads fan boy.

Emotionally scarred is big words, the kind of words used by the players from that very clan you speak of that I asked to join who spent/wasted years of their lives on quake and say that quake is their life and they're emotionally attached to the franchise.

You come across like one of those guys too. So much so that my comment about Arena FPS not being popular (which actually makes sense) was taken emotionally by you so you feel like counter-attacking and trying to be personal in return, talking about skill level. Lol.

There isn't much rapport between me casually asking random clans if they need players for a TDM cup and posting on here. I ended up playing the 2v2 TDM cup with a friend, and then played with the Frenchies on the TDM 4v4. At least those guys were fun to talk to and play with, unlike the weird peado-anime lovers from the other clan I casually asked who are full of sadness and very much resemble you. Unfortunately I didn't know they were like that before asking them, only a few months later when I see their posts on here.

People wonder why new players don't come on quake, one part might be the complexity of the game itself and how much there is to catch-up, but the biggest part is elitists faggots like you who've spent countless years playing quake everyday and look down on anyone who just has a couple hundred hours.

The fact you think I'm white knighting QC against shows your lack of emotional intelligence. You're too emotionally involved to distinguish someone who isn't pro QC nor anti QC. Life isn't just black and white.

unlike the weird peado-anime lovers from the other clan I casually asked who are full of sadness

what? :D and u base that on our disagreement on qc related stuff?

you were much more reasonable before, u even said yourself that u respect my decision and see no problem with me not taking you, because we looked for more skilled players.

peado-anime :D thats new

I base it on that: http://www.esreality.com/post/2713209/recomme...pid2713543

Google the first recommendation and you'll see :)

I didn't have any problem with our conversation, but some people on here like vajra and freiya use it as something to try and ridicule while I was just casually asking a few teams if they needed players.

i see u made some digging, quite impressive

however, u judged whole clan because of one man's hobby. Not cool

I actually didn't have to dig anything, it was sent to me.

Some people don't like voicing their different opinion on ESR in fear of being insulted or ridiculed (unlike me who gives 0 fuck), so instead they send me "messages of support" on twitch and discord with some stories and links to embarrassing stuff about some of the people I've argued with on here. That's how I saw that stuff.

But yes I agree I shouldn't put everybody from your clan in the same bag as one or two individuals.

white knight
TaysKKKi

Gobbles.

another day on esr where people cry

esr is gonna become worse than reddit, twitch chat and hltv..

esr is gonna become worse than reddit, twitch chat and hltv..

Registered: 12 Oct 2018

tl:dr

the edit button

YouTroll

Thousands still play QL and Zhu, winD an myself will buy the rights and change it to dm6 only to honour the great mr. W.

"Thousands"

https://steamcharts.com/app/282440

"Thousands"

https://steamcharts.com/app/282440

"Thousands"

https://steamcharts.com/app/282440

"Thousands"

https://steamcharts.com/app/282440

Millions of people have been playing quake live for past 16 years (c) Tim Willits 2016

You need to account for players on the Bethesda launcher and the boost the game will get when it becomes free to play.

Reading this Tayski guy makes me appreciate Jamerio more.

Yup, Jamerio can be funny sometimes, this guy is just dumb as fuck and full of bile, reminds me of the Russian-Estonian troll who used to call all Germans Nazis, etc... but that was some 15yo kid.

Don't be mad because I say Arena FPS is a thing of the past.

quake has been played since the early days of internet and people are still playing it today, id agree with you if that title was QL because thats basically quake 3 but people are playing that QC thing, the most popular AFPS in a decade if not EVER. That means people are still interested in what a new quake game can offer and people kept moving on from quake to quake except the purists who keep playing their fav. The rest of quake players dont have a problem switching even if the game sucks ass.

it isnt very popular but definitely not a thing from the past if people are actively playing it, there are cups, active development, loads of streamers... in fact,just because a game is mainstream and popular doesn't mean its for everybody either, i fucking despise battle royale yet i like other new shit.

games are just games and people have different tastes, its like if you were saying that classical music is a thing of the past just because crappy pop singers fill stadiums while orchestras are doing the same old shit.

"quake has been played since the early days of internet and people are still playing it today"


You're exactly right with that because the majority of QC players are simply players from previous quakes, rarely new players who just arrived on QC.

As you're saying yourself, it is the most popular AFPS in a decade at least, and that games has 1.7k average players with a peak of 4.8k. For a game that has just come out and on top of that is free it's pretty low numbers by online game standards. I mean even games like heroes & generals or Medieval II: Total War have more players and they are terribly designed games...

The reality is QC is the only game left in the Arena FPS gender that's not dead, and soon you'll also have diabotical which more likely than not will be even less played than QC.

It is a thing of the past when a game like QL which was simply a revive of a game from a decade before (Q3) had more players on launch than a brand new 2018 game in QC.

There are cups because the game has just come out and a lot of quakers came back to quake because of it, and there is active development because they're trying to limit the damage of how much money they've already lost. Let's see where the game is in 3 years from now.

I'm not talking about the game even being mainstream, and that's kind of my point with my post a bit further up this page. Arena FPS isn't for everyone and these days there is way too many games to choose from for new people to decide to stick to quake. The thing is not only it's not mainstream but it's actually an obscure niche played by less than 10k players now, and it's not just the poor game design that's responsible as if you look at all the previous Arena FPS games, the concept was never famous or mainstream in the first place.

Let's not even bring up classical music in this discussion which still has millions of followers today.

quake champions has 314.000 followers on twitch while quakelive has 15.000, it means there are new people who know and like watching quake...

other genre i love is sim racing and it has few games to choose from, everybody knows about them and these games have about the same amount of players than quake and they have less followers than quake. Yet, it is considered a great genre and they are great games, its even recognized as a type of racing in some countries. Assetto is in fact my fav game nowadays.

followers on twitch:

assetto corsa: 74000
project cars2: 63000
iracing: 143000

https://steamcharts.com/cmp/611500,244210,378860

the people who follow these games are probably the same guys, so even if u sum all of them it doesnt reach the amount of followers that quake has these days.

There is still a demographic of gamers who are interested in skill based games and FPS, every year the best games are usually FPS games and people are dying to play new doom for instance, OW is also p good cos people are playing a non military FPS.

So you can tell me that the genre is old and outdated and all you want but i keep thinking that we never had a proper game yet. QC failed to implement good gamemodes for the champions.

it doesnt make any sense to have champions if they cant be used for specific demands, all you do is pick the most powerful on combat, it makes no sense to pick a tanky champ or a fast champ in these gamemodes which leads to boring gameplay when most people use the same picks and they also have little synergy between them. Team fortress classic would be the best thing to replicate for this game or something along the lines. That one last gamemode says a lot when they just allow everyone to carry full set of weapons instead of making a loadout system or something. Even in cpma you have NTF which is way superior to any gamemode of QC. These guys just dont know how to make the game fun anymore, most arcade modes are also very dull.... and yet people are playing QC.

IDK dude, its just matter of time, for sure 2019 will be interesting and will bring loads of discussions about AFPS with QC and diabotical around and im gonna play and support both of them like i did with all AFPS that came out.

Of course QC would have more followers than QL. QL is 8 years old while QC is the new thing. Twitch only came out at about the same time as QL and it wasn't as popular then.

I mean I didn't even know about the sim racing games until you mentioned them just now, so I wouldn't say everybody knows about them. If we are comparing QC to Asseto Corsa to demonstrate that QC is popular, it's already an insta fail.

People are interested in FPS yes, and skill based games yes, but Arena FPS not so much. Even if you look at the best ever arena FPS games they weren't played by that many in comparison to other genres of FPS, and that was at a time when there were even less games to choose from.

Look at the number of players on CS, OW, CoD, BF and TF. Then you'll see that those are popular FPS games in comparison. Even if QC was flawless there wouldn't be near as many players than any of those other games, that's why people who blame it entirely on the devs tend to ignore what the market is also like. To me it's clear that the market is not big to start with for AFPS, let alone when the product itself is average at best.

you dont know about sim racing cos you probably dont follow racing world at all, but you can even see real pro racers on those games. If you dont know about them you are missing one of the best parts of modern gaming btw, highly recommended if you are into driving.

A game doesnt need to be CS, OW, CoD, BF to be popular today, thats another league. Im just saying you that as long as any game has a steady population its pretty good already, there are hundreds of games that are completely dead yet i can hop into QC and find games almost at any hour. That's p good despite having an EA game.

What I was trying to say is that those racing games you talk about are not known to everybody like you seem to say. I don't know them, and the handful of people I asked didn't know it either apart from 1 dude who had heard of it.

Those highly populated FPS games I mentioned are the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of the highest played FPS games. The reason I asked for you to look at their number of players and compare that with QC is to get an understanding of what a really active FPS game looks like in terms of number of players and looking at what QC is achieving in comparison.

As you say QC is the most played AFPS, it has more players than all the other AFPS combined right now, but it still is not even in the top 150 most played steam games of the moment, a list which doesn't even include al the other games which aren't on steam like those on battle.net and Origin and are massive like OW, CoD etc.

If you look at the most played fps games you're looking at at least 40k+ average players or more with games like CS having 300K+ average players with peaks of half a million players. Now compare that to the average 1.7k players on QC in comparison...

I mean just in that steam charts list alone I can see at least 30 FPS games which have more players than this most played AFPS in QC, and that list doesn't even include popular games on BattleNet on Origin like overwatch, the new call of duty, battlefield, star wars battlefront etc.

That's what I mean by AFPS being a thing of the past and not appealing to the masses or to new players.

People can say it's because of the devs and because QC is shit, of course that plays a part, but IMO not as big a part as the fact that AFPS doesn't appeal to the masses in the first place let alone new younger players.

racing sims as well as afps dont appeal everyone because you need proper gear and understanding of the game, most people who play quake first time dont know about all those things like strafejumping and so on, their eyes cant see beyond walking and shooting rockets, they ignore armors, etc.. its way too abstract

its a game for a more advanced kind of gamer, i am not saying it takes more skill than other games, thats not even true, all i am saying is that this isnt the normal kind of game.

why i choosed assetto corsa to make this comparison is because normal arcade racing games could be like normal FPS while sim racing is AFPS: you need advanced gear, you need extra knowledge of mechanic behaviours, you must be already tired of the popular games like gran turismo, forza, etc... which in my eyes its the same when it comes to csgo or ow, they are great and i enjoy it with friends but they dont transmit the same anymore.

The fact that there are people playing these games means that there are hardcore experienced communities behind them, someone who gets into gaming today wont do it thru sim racing or quake, they are more likely to start off other games, similiar but not as abstract. Thats the key because at the same time their most appealing mechanics and features are not even previewed or shown in their games in such a way people can understand and learn them.

You have your points but you cant simply deny that people got love toward the game because they have always played it, they love the gameplay because its unique and rewarding like not many others. Gotta go for a few days dont expect more replies. Peace!

They are all better than you. They are definetly troubled, but they interact with others whereas all that you ever post is opinions that have no actual reasons, and when it comes to dialogues, you just fail, from a social, empirical and logical point of view.

This is low-key the reason why I made this thread.

Yes p0rt is not a pornstar

Will never understand why some people more talented and inclined than myself didn't just bite the bullet and get knee deep in Rage's modding Tool Kit once it was (eventually) released. The engine is crisp, I'd imagine the mega texture bollocks wouldn't be an issue at a smaller multiplayer scale, and the movement is actually nice.

Modding is like afps. A thing from an ancient time.

Interesting thought. Just found this leddit thread for those interested. https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/36..._take_off/