Wow. What a shitshow. But for some reason, I'm not surprised at all.

A word on the Quake Pro League (and why I wont be wasting my time going forward)

As many of you likely already know, I maintain the Liquipedia pages for the Quake Pro League and the QPL Challenger ladder. I do this because I love Quake and the Quake community. I spend 8 or so hours a day every Saturday and Sunday updating every single score for both Challenger and Pro, and also maintaining a leaderboard of the QPL Challenger standings. I do it because I love Quake.

In updating these leaderboards day in and day out for multiple weeks, I began to notice some discrepancies in the scoring. Certain pro's points totals weren't exactly adding up the way they should be. I brought this up multiple times to the pro players, and they relayed the info to the admins. This happened multiple times over the course of a few weeks, to no avail

According to my calculations the final standings shoud have read:

k1llsen should have had 79 points. 36 from Quakecon and 40 from QPL Stage 1. He had 81 according to admins.
Cooller should have had 71 points. 38.5 from Quakecon (which rounds up to 39) and 32 from QPL Stage 1. He had 69 according to admins.
toxjq should have had 56 points. 28.25 from Quakecon (rounded down to 28) and 28 from QPL. Admins say: he has 57 points.
Xron: 34 points Quakecon, 20 points stage 1 (for 54 points). Admins say: 52 points.
Whaz 12.5 points Quakecon (round to 13) + 24 points stage 1 (for 37 points). Admins say 36.

In the case of Whaz, this extra point would have led to him earning a higher seed and facing a different opponent. Instead of facing nosfa, he ended up facing baSe. Dramis would have swapped positions with him.

Eventually, the only response I got during the 10th week was:

"ZeRo4: yeah hes wrong on almost all of those"

No explanation as to why I was wrong, just a single message basically ignoring me. This wouldn't bother me that much as a 3rd party, but the big issue here is that the QPL. DOES NOT. HAVE THEIR OWN WEBSITE.

All of the stats and results available for players are available through the work I do on Liquipedia. And thats it. No official source. When you type !bracket in the Quake live stream, it links to the work I do on Liquipedia. And !bracket gets typed a LOT. The page went down for about 5 minutes today by mistake and I had 6 messages from people wondering what happened to the page. Everyone relies on the info I work on.

If theyre going to link to the work I've done directly in their livestream and not have a website of their own, they need to explain why I'm wrong so I can fix it.

Eventually, Xron's points were fixed. And I was wrong about Cooller and k1llsen. This info came to me from a player who informed me that k1llsen and Cooller swapped points at Quakecon because k1llsen defeated Cooller in the showmatch. So Cooler dropped down 2 points and k1llsen gained 2 points.

Ok, sure. Fine. But why is that rule not published ANYWHERE? NO ONE knows that's a thing that they're doing. How is anyone supposed to know whats going on if everything is shrouded in secrecy? The point system makes no sense. It changed from Quakecon to Stage 1 and now apparently its changing again for Stage 2. Rumour has it that point swapping will also be a thing during the Stage 1 finals? So all the matches all need to be point swapped? Where is that stated anywhere? Was it stated on stream? Also, no one knows the prize pool, or the prize breakdown. The players know how much money is in the pool but have no idea how much each person made because they were told the format would be different than the one they ended up using.

ON TOP OF ALL THIS, I had figured out that the FACEIT admins that run the challenger league weren't even tracking points for the challenger league events. They were just copy/pasting the work I did on Liquipedia and using it as their own. I know this to be 100% certain because I had changed numerous players names due to wiki formatting or known aliases, and every single one of those changes were exactly the same when viewed on the FACEIT website. They are LITERALLY PAYING PEOPLE TO RUN THIS LEAGUE, and they need to rip off the work I do for free.

WITHOUT asking permission or providing credit.

That's fucked up. That's really fucked up.

Obviously I've been doing a better job than them but I never asked to be paid for it. I think some of the players were actually advocating for them to pay me to do it, but I never heard anything about that.


Fast forward to this weekend. I travel to Lucca on my own dime (much like I did for Quakecon 2017, Dreamhack Denver 2017, Dreamhack Winter 2017, Quakecon 2018, PGL Romania 2018, Dreamhack Winter 2018) because as I've stated before, I love Quake and I want to support the game and the players who deserve all the support they can get. I haven't been good at Quake since 2006 but I still continue to go, all out of my own pocket, to support the game in any way I can.

I was attending Lucca in hopes of filming content for this game because it desperately needs content. It could use all the help it can get. I was hoping to get backstage and film the players and their thoughts and emotions before and after the games, and create a mini documentary/highlight reel for Youtube. I was hoping to speak to John(ZeRo4) about getting back stage but I could never find him because, well, he was always backstage.

Numerous players attempted to talk to him for me to see if I could get a pass to get back there, and the only response he gave them was "I'll think about it". He never thought about it. I was never let backstage. There were plenty of non-players at the event who were given passes to get back there, including friends of some of the players and other media people. I was snubbed because I'm better at simple math, apparently. All the work I do for this game and this league, for free, was considered pointless.

I didn't get a single word in with ZeRo4, the head of Quake esports, all weekend. I didn't even see him outside of his cave until half way through day 2. After all the work I've done to support the game and the league, I just don't understand it. Not at all.

I obviously chose to do the stats for QPL and Challengers on my own because I enjoyed doing it and the community was very appreciative. I didn't do it for Quake, I did it for the players. But if I'm going to be treated like garbage, and plagiarized by the big shots behind the game, then I truly don't see any reason to continue. The people who enjoy this game deserve a lot better from the people in charge.

If they actually want to listen to what I have to say, and how this can be done better, I'd be more than happy to help.

But I find that very unlikely.

Zero4 is a worthless pos just like everyone else behind quake champions.

dead game

He wants to support Quake Champions?

what a moron ))))))

rofl @ zero4 not letting him come backstage on a crappy tournament that absolutely no one gives a shit about on a game with 500 avg players

they're just milking as much money out of the companys deep pockets until they get fired

We would all do the exact same

People who make nothing from quake contribute a lot more.

I was rotfling already when I heard they hired zero4 as an 'esport manager'. What's his expertise? Playing some quake? megalol.

He's an expert at eating donuts and scratching his balls. What more expertise do you need?

must suck hard to fly from canada to italy,
and then get to know he is not allowed to film the tournament,
if I were to do a film, I have to say I would have ask for permission in advance, I would never just go there and see if things work out in such an official event ...

gotta also say I didnt get to see much of this esports manager zero4,
would expect more media exposure from an esports manager, but u dont know, maybe they dont allow him

It does make you wonder what a full time position as eSports manager at ID software means.

I mean, there is like 2 or 3 events a year for QC? And I don't see any events for the other ID software titles.

40 lions is a ((( )))
needs his cut.

Why am I not surprised about this ?

id's golden age is long gone, Bethesda doesn't care, Zenimax even less.


Still, thank you for your dedication, was really appreciated.. by the ones who actually care.

id software moves cocaine over the boarder.
QC is laundering front

John Carmack just strawman, real boss behind the curtains av3k.

Lol what a bunch of non carers. Their game is fucked up shit and they still do not appreciate the community which plays their garbage and even produces content. They are not even aware or do not care in this situation where a human with a healthy mind would think, if my product is garbage the least i can do is to comfort the people who are still getting involved. Maybe i can compensate. Maybe i can fulfill at least a bit of my mission and give something to the world. Instead they are a bunch if arrogant no carers. No love for Quake. Even ZeRo4 lol. Rotten to the core. Can they please just leave and never touch Quake again. I know nit gonna happen. There are so many old franchises out there who at least transitioned kind of into the modern gaming world. Why not Quake? Why is it the biggest fail of them all? You know, let me say Fallout. New game sucks, couldn’t care less even though i enjoyed Fallout 2 more than standard. Fallout 76 even was a fat fucking fail. But they at least had games and a big community. But as i said, couldn’t care less if it died like Quake. Worst fucking fail is Quake, the only game i could really enjoy esports wise.

The truth should never be hidden, but I don't know if this doesn't makes things worse for the scene (the players and the viewers).

The league is probably on shaky legs as it is. I mean, he isn't exposing a huge profit organisation here. QPL maybe generates a little revenue via sponsors, but I also wouldn't be surprised if the operation is a loss and the parent companies are just allowing it to go on for their own marketing purposes. Maybe they're ready to drop it at any moment if they feel like it.
Best to suck it up and enjoy and support it while it lasts, because it probably won't last long.

Either way, thank you mojo for your work! Liquipedia is a great resource. Without it it would be a lot harder to keep up to date on Quake.

I use to think that quake was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.

More drama @ https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr2939

If they are at his level of not giving a shit, why the fuk are holding this championship? The marketing value is next to nothing. All I can think of is Z4 and the rest of the bunch headed by the fatso desperate to pretend they are actually working for their paycheck

Z4 and the rest of the bunch headed by the fatso desperate to pretend they are actually working for their paycheck

this is it, they do busywork until it's 5pm and they can fuck off home and forget about their "job".

Yeah, goes along the lines of:

http://www.esreality.com/post/2944967/quake-p...pid2945208
http://www.esreality.com/post/2944967/quake-p...pid2945116

The lacking performance by some of the top players at Lucca is exactly what you'd expect when you don't have time to adapt to a new environment. The effect will be more or less severe for different players, and this will make the results more random.

That's not to take anything away from Cooller - he was just ON, and I believe he would have won regardless.

Go Mojo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And btw ZeRo4 as an esport manager is the biggest fucking joke ever in the history of competitive quake! Absolutely pathetic.

This point system scoring shit doesn't surprise me one bit.

Shit point system with a shit caster Ketchup.
Goes hand in hand. Thats one way to kill a game

That implies QC ever was alive

+1 for mojo for trying to maintain these results with zero help. He's been around for a long time and I'm glad he's taking an active role in trying to keep people up to date.

Bethesda is completely disconnected from whatever remains of the quake community here.

What we really need is active participation from 3rd party (established) orgs like Faceit and IEM/ESL in the past. There's lots of quake vets there that are sympathetic there, but they're waiting for something proper to appear that isn't QC. QC as a game is completely dead. No established org will stake their business on it when. I think 1v1 AFPS isn't dead but it's as close as I can remember going back to basically the beginning with the CPL.

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