Some of these didn't appear to be too crazy, looked like they were just moments of good aiming, but looking into more of these some are definitely real suspicious.

It's a shame.

Oh absolutely, there are some parts in there that don't even look that crazy, but most are pretty much... unexplainable

https://clips.twitch.tv/SourOutstandingOxDoggo

Thank God for this correct video of hacking

Nice video.

You know like I feel like everyone tried an aimbot in some game... right?

Said every cheater on the planet.

exactly
I never tried any

my only moment of not playing fair I guess was when I LANed with a friend on far cry 1 and he did not know that you can use binoculars to detect enemies while I knew
I kept using it because I was curious to see his logics how would he try to find good hiding spots, though I never bragged about my "victory"

I used cheats while playing Quake 1 because I was scared.

now that I think about it Walter used wallhacks because he wanted subconsciously to see the real world that was hiding from him behind those pesky walls

With technology being available, the sheer number of people playing and/or streaming professionally and the amount of money to be made, it is clear that there are quite a few cheaters around.

Identifying them correctly might be a hard task though

how do aimbots work tho, how do they even know X pixels reward points and Y pixels don't, especially in a game like that where you can barely distinguish between all the shit cluttering the terrain anyway

They don't work on pixels, they work on enemy hitboxes, kinda like in single player games, the npcs enemies... but much better of course, and more subtle

That's why they can lock on a target even behind a wall or trough smoke grenades and fog, and why they're usually purposefully dampened to not do so otherwise they get too obvious. I don't know why Shroud's spazzed out, i guess once in a while it can happen

Wouldn't have expected the opponent's hitbox information to be available to your game client, but all handled via server-side hit detection instead? I'm clueless tbh.

the hitbox may or may not be available, but the 3d model which is displayed on your screen is always available.

and that 3d model has properties which set it apart from other 3d models which are on scene, e.g. a specific vertex count, specific textures etc.

So the cheat listens for calls to a method of a graphics API and executes custom codes before passing on the call to the API (in case of the aimbot) or by modifying the call itself (e.g. for wallhacks).

At least that's how most cheats worked several years ago.

these cheats could be fixed if the games would use an additional server in the middle

Aye but who cares

I'm suprised the lad's got a following, fair-play, shows how low-standard and retarded the general population is.

why? It's not obvious from probably even a lot of average gameplay that he cheats. And most don't watch that much, nor is it really a great hobby to

I wasn't talking about if he cheats, could care less, was just saying that the average person must be mentally fucked if they follow him.

No disrespect to him.

what's so bad about watching a streamer for entertainment?

Didn't say anything was wrong with it, I'm saying that I think watching said game streamer for entertainment is retarded.

I think he's referring to the fact Shroud is as boring as they get. He's one of those streamers that sits 20 cms from the screen, mouth open the whole time, and occasionally mutters "shit", "fuck", or if they feel like talking, some generic in game command.

It's understandable if someone might find the concept of watching hours of that, or actually donating moneys to that, a little... alien.

At least compared to traditional medias.

Dude, look at these sick flicks.
Can't take my eyes from his godly skill.
Already made mixer account and donated to him by eternal love.

Check Sanchez flicks, this shroud is just garbage

That's a pretty fair take.

You could be describing toxjq, except he talks even less and plays a very obscure game no one plays.

Yep, and both frankly deserve viewers (if we took the evidence here as not grave) based on the skill and the general understanding of what things get views on twitch. But I think nex1's description fairly captures a sort of general sense that many people have about many streamers in this medium, and does it without just calling the viewers 'retarded'.

Some people are scared of new things. *shrug* The fact of the matter, people do find it entertaining and do donate. He may not call them "retarded," but there's also no attempt to understand and calling it "alien" suggests there's something abnormal about it. I think it's easy to understand why people watch and donate, and it's not alien.

They enjoy the content, the "sense of community" by regularly interacting with the streamer and other viewers in chat, and/or the recognition that comes from interacting with the streamer or being a "regular"/supporter of the streamer. The format is new, sure, but it's the same reason people pay to go attend a music concert/festival, pay to have a picture taken with their favorite musician/artist/author/actor/etc., pay more money for a beer at a bar when they could pay less at the grocery store, pay to see a movie at a theatre, et cetera. Nothing alien about this stuff. It's as old as humanity. People are social animals. Even the most introverted, anti-social folks. And online socializing is probably easier for the introverts, but it's scratching the same itch, either way.

Sure. I just think it's fair to notice the deficiencies of the genre and a popular sentiment about it, especially as he's literally doing that for another commenter here--people do find some of the laziness about the genre alien if they're not used to it.

I wouldn't myself go about saying these things, especially because the ways people engage with this medium is different.

People are entitled to their opinions. Especially on the internet.

You got it

lol

Shroud does cheat.
Does not mean he has zero aim.

Though even with 20000$ hacks, I am confident of raping him in quake with 100-0 score in a q4 duel.

No aimbot can fight versus DEMONIC GOD MASTER

But who cares about a cheater playing a shit game that no one who is a reasonable person cares about??

He's not some random cheater from interwebs.
Dude is jewing thousands of people and is considered KOBE OF FPS, although not sure how many people are watching him on mixer.

GAMERS RISE UP!

lmao really he's just a variety streamer, he stopped being a pro when he left csgo.

i don't watch him on mixer but someone said that mixer has 10k bitrate, so 1080p streams can actually look good on it. but there's no one to watch there.

Holy crap! The world is no longer the same...

combine every quake and quake clone together and pubg still has over 200x more players rofl.

but yeah apparently reasonable people don't care about pubg. classic neckbeard logic.

Isn't pubg clunky, laggy, unoptimized piece of shit?
Never played it.

Shroud has a dull personality.

looks like he's cheating in that video tbh

How many times can you slow down clips of toxjq, k1llsen, cypher, or clawz playing and not think to yourself, "no human can do this"?

It's not like Shroud plays out of his mind 100% of the time. He has moments where his tracking or flick aim gets stupid, but it's not constant. Just like any selective clips of toxjq, k1llsen, cypher, or clawz. And there's no shortage of clips like this because he's streaming 40+ hours a week.

I agree with gbmaster, though. He's pretty dull personality-wise. He makes up for it partly by having some insane clips/shots.

Ye, except aim of cypher, k1llsen, clawz, and toxjq, is just a pitiful joke compared to the aim of Lord Sanchez.

None of these people will even hit 40% LG in quake 4.

Locking on speedhackers or locking on someones head after pressing a key isn't something that "happens".

Flukes and luck happen. Like when k1llsen tracks an enemy through the wall... If you play Quake enough, eventually you hit pixel rails, you track someone perfectly with LG, you hit a prediction rocket from across the map, etc..

The issue here is if you look through the totality of all games, it does not look so miraculous. But if you selectively pick out a few moments here and there, and that's all you look at, it looks insane. The fact is Shroud is a great aimer and plays/streams as a full-time career. There is lots to cherry pick from. Thousands of hours of him playing at a high level. Of that, let's say he gets insanely lucky some small percentage of the time. Given the quantity of his time playing, that's a buttload of "fishy" clips.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to have custom cheats for each game? Does that mean that if Shroud cheats, he's cheating in a whole lot of different games, each with unique cheats and anti-cheats? How does he do it when he's playing games on day 1? How does he avoid getting caught by anti-cheat software after so many years playing so many different games? To me, it's just too incredible to think that is what is happening.

How many clips from here are from day 1 games?
All these clips are from pubg and I think few from CS where cheating is nothing unusual.
I'm not saying he's shit player using cheats.
He is Cheater Strike tier cheater.
Good aim, good awareness, good player and bit of juice here and there.
That clip where Dr Disrespect is watching - retardedly obvious cheat where shroud is doing 180 to lock on head of someone he didn't even know was there.
You don't aimlock to speedhackers with luck.

Also he behaves like a standard cheater.
Hurr durr everyone tried cheats at some point... Hehe everyone is cheating hehe... Cheating? That's esports scene for ya hehe.
Mouse cam? HOW DARE YOU?!
You must be RETARDED BRAINDED FAGGOT to think I'm cheating, all my HIGH IQ FANS know I'm not cheating.
If I would get mouse cam I wouldn't do it for CONSPIRACY THEORISTS IN TINFOIL HATS I would do it for my BIG DICK TURBOO CHADS FANS IN CHAT.

100% cheater.

I don't know about that compilation. It was pretty long and I didn't watch all of it. But I've seen clips of him playing the new games (Black Ops, Apex, CoD) on day 1 and his snappy aim looks the same to me, regardless of the game he's playing. He does that same snappy stuff frequently, sometimes he misses or sometimes there's not anyone to shoot, no matter what the game is. He'll snap in the wrong direction, shoot a bush, then find the person and shoot them. And I've seen other players do and practice doing exactly that same type of snappy aiming. It's emblematic of the genre of FPS he plays, unlike AFPS where you tend to see more flicky or smooth tracking aim.

And he's not just a "good aimer." He was on a premier CSGO team. Calling him a "good aimer" is like calling toxjq an "okay aimer," since CSGO has a vastly more competitive scene (i.e., more players, more money/tournaments). Compare how he aims to other top CSGO players, and it stops looking so impressive.

The general argument I'm making is that if you're good/great, and you try enough times, you will eventually make some insane shots. It's just a matter of probability. And then you can selectively clip those insane shots and it'll look like obvious cheats. In frag movies, you see some people hit some insane shots, track people perfectly, but no one judges those as cheats because they know it's selectively edited.

The counterargument here is, Shroud is toggling. He's only got his aimhack on sometimes. But in my view, then the problem is with why he's toggling when he does. Why toggle at all if he's okay being obvious about it? Just keep it on all the time and deny everything and rely on your fans to defend you.

He was on a premier CSGO team

1. As if anyone in CSGO have good aim at all.
2. Everyone in CSGO cheats on pro scene and lans.
3. Toxjq has to pray alot to reach anything close to "Okay aimer"

watch this video below to see how bad those pros are.

I don't know if being pro at Cheater Strike makes you more or less suspicious of cheating ;)
He's clearly not okay with being obvious. He's not obvious.
In 10 second mark you can see his kinda awkward expression after getting a kill through fence. But that's low level shamanics indeed.

shroud was widely considered NA's best aimer (on lan) for multiple years in CS:GO

LAN doesn't prove shit in [current_year] :(

Having played legit games doesn't mean you were always legit, e.g. flusha.

I dunno the story with flusha so I don't really understand what you mean. My knowledge of CS/CSGO is pretty limited.

Well then let me put it this way - it's not about amazing or lucky shots. I can relate to both of those, it's the strange ones where cheating is a much simpler explanation than 5 coincidences happening at once. Is it possible Epstein killed himself? 'course.

Is it strange just because it's so improbable? Because the sheer volume of game time for Shroud makes the improbable seem like an eventuality. He's been streaming 40+ hours a week for how many years? 5? That's 10,000+ hours. That's more than I've played Quake over the past 15 years.

the one or other scene rlly looked like impossible to me, won't happen with 500 000 hours. also it's a bit weird he shows like no emotion/reaction to making insane frags. I've seen rapha dahang etc shouting out once hiting sth awesome. this guy does the sickest frag of the decade and shows no reaction. kinda suspicious.

As Vo0 once told me, a long time ago, when you do a cool frag, it's cool not to react. :D The people who stop playing, and gape at their awesome frag, look like newbs.

It helps if you're vo0 and hit everything.

That's why he's the champ.

Yeah, that's not good evidence really. There's walkoff KO's in combat sports as well.

What are you saying is not good evidence? What I said or what anonymous said? I don't think either is good evidence.

Not sure what a "walkoff KO" is.

I was agreeing with you that no visible reaction to sick frags is not good (even ampliative) evidence of cheating.

A walkoff knockout is walking through your falling opponent, starting the moment your strike hits, as if you were just casually strolling through a park. Mark Hunt famously does it all the time, probably because he can perfectly tell when a strike is going to knock someone out.

cmon eventually u're gonna grin when getting lucky or whatever

I didn't take it as given that he never does (there's so much footage, nobody has gone through that). I'm just talking about his general predilection.

No, they're strange because they're even less likely to happen as players develop game sense and play style and become slaves to habits.

Can you give me a for instance? I watched OP's link for 2-3 mins, but I'm not sure what you're thinking of.

Oh no, I don't know or have an opinion in this case, I'm just saying the logic is not there. I know the onus is on the accuser, but using "not caught" as a proof of a negative is just a bad defense where it is not necessary.

It's much different in the two games, because in Quake you have very small, cramped maps, and due to the architecture and powerups positions it's very doable to know where the opponent is most of the times, sometimes with scary precision.

Not so in PUBG, where the map is immense and you have literally no clue where the opponents are coming from.

And c'mon, he's locking on targets, tracking them and shooting them with absurd recoil control without even seeing them!

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to have custom cheats for each game? Does that mean that if Shroud cheats, he's cheating in a whole lot of different games, each with unique cheats and anti-cheats? How does he do it when he's playing games on day 1?"

Yes, what's the issue in having a bunch of cheats for different games? Literally the last of the issues. A couple other things: in games that he's trying for the first time or for a limited amount of time, he often looks completely mediocre. I remember watching him play Hunt:showdown, and his aim was terrible. Really terrible, he looked like he was drunk.

He's never looked as insane in other games as he has in PUBG when it was at peak popularity. Well, except CSGO, but there's plenty of incriminating clips from there, too.

"How does he avoid getting caught by anti-cheat software after so many years playing so many different games? "

That's nothing, really. Unfortunately, that really means nothing at all. In ANY game, you will find months or years old accounts with blatant aimbotting going on, i'm talking full blown spinbots, and no fear of ever getting caught by the anticheat. All anticheats are jokes, there is no financial incentive to keep them on top of the game. It's wasted moneys from developer's perspective.

VAC for example is an absolute joke. To be flagged by VAC you really must use trash scripts written by people in their first month of programming course and downloaded from pirate bay along with a bunch of viruses.

No it's completely different.

Even Toxic's locks on target don't look remotely as robotic as in the video above.


And you're right that he isn't always doing what he does in the video. The issue is, many actions that he does in the videos are never possible without third party software.

And most of those actions happens right when the stakes get higher- a teammate gets knocked down, they're approaching the final circles, he's in a exposed position etc.

It's called "toggling", you switch the settings up when you most need them.

For example, take the very last clip of the video: he sees an opponent coming out from behind a wall, you hear a "click" from either his mouse or keyboard, and the crosshair flies over the opponent's head and one shots him.... while Shroud's arm stands still. He only moves it after the kill. And he's using low sensitivity.

lotsa streamers cheat and have been caught. there's money in it.
most people are dishonest.

https://clips.twitch.tv/SourOutstandingOxDoggo

Damn. Thats actually proper cheating. Check how he does the panic-sway away from the guy he locked on through the wall, once he notices he fucked up his aimbotting.

I'm glad I didnt ignore this clip from pleb-troll Sanchez tbh !

Full blown panic indeed, it's hylarious.

And Shroud's sudden departure from professional gaming is very weird overall. He wasn't a big streamer when he left, he himself said he was doing 24 hours marathons for ten viewers.

There's people saying he was forced to leave.

The situation might be comparable to what has already happened in other sports: A star athlete gets caught (Lance Armstrong, for example) and his organization/nation tries to prevent it from leaking to the media because losing a star athlete would affect the organization negatively, not only damaging its reputation, but also losing a popular audience-magnet.

What surprises me, surely the bots should be able to NOT lock through a wall if they're written by someone competent, even if you press a "lock" button? Never tried any but it's just something I'd expect, am I wrong?

Good point, yep.

I can only think of one theory why it happened that way: Shroud was very comfortable with his cheats and knew how to use them perfectly to make it seem natural, so he didnt even need the function that you are speaking of.
In this occasion however, Shroud was careless and he was sure both players would rush around the corner, so he toggled, but one guy didnt go around the corner, and fucked up.

I never used cheats, so Im not exactly an expert tho.

Here's an example of when even THAT backfires.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_rUvnuOWBc

The thing is, aimbots aren't used only to kill the enemy, their main purpose at high level of plays and on LAN contexts is as wallhacks, they pull the crosshair in the direction of the enemy, telling you his position behind walls.

Only the user can feel this unnatural pull, any external observer will think you're the one that casually moved the mouse, unless the aimbot is set on too fast levels, like in some cases above. Also keep in mind they don't have to pull all the way over the enemy hitbox, they can be set in a way that they only do a gentle "tugging" in the enemy direction, usually you don't need more than that to pick up someone's position with map knowledge. Kinda like dragging a magnet over a table while you hold another one under it. You feel tugging and you get where the target is even if you aren't straight above.

It's up to you if you also want to shoot or not. There are other settings that also shoot for you, with sub 150 ms reaction times and such, or only shoot for you and don't help your aim in any way.

That was a big thing with the CS scandal of some years ago, where watching lan demos of pros some of them showed an astronomically high incidence of their crosshairs snapping right over people's heads trough walls for a split second, and then their users moving the visual around once they got the hint on enemy position. It can happen casually, but it happened too often and most importantly when the oppo wasn't in standard positions.

That's why it's so ridicolous when someone claim you can't use wallhack on lan. You don't need a graphic overlay to do so.

? I hope you're trolling lol

shroud doesnt cheat, anyone who played decent level can tell all is explainable by sound, perfect technique and 1000s of hours, and in his specific case he played full-time at pro level for years, its only normal even. i saw only 1 truly fishy clip at the end of the youtube video, but there is actually slight camera delay even tho on his annotation he says its not that lol.

ofc any top players gonna get accused of cheating and have fishy clips, they are way better than u are used to seeing on average and thats the point of them being good to watch

also btw he was getting thousands of subs when he quit cloud9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORCLuPAuWZ0

easy for us quakers to be butthurt I guess, myself included tbh, since CS and shroud got huge, but quake and rapha/toxjq are nowhere close. nowadays I tell someone I play PC fps, they are like "oh like CS?", "Nah quake", "whats that"

:)

He does cheat.

Locking on people by sound cue.
Retard.

Sorry if you were never able to develop the aim to lock onto people. Try getting a good mouse, high refresh monitor and practice. Make sure you get a low enough sensitivity, maybe even practice kovaaks :)

Several CS:GO pros have been caught cheating. Some star players are definitely cheating - with no real consequences. What makes you so sure that "shroud doesn't cheat"?

Sure you can never be 100percent with anyone. Even if you inspect someone's pc and watch over their shoulder maybe there's a chance you will miss it. However we saw so many videos of shroud streaming on twitch (go check there's over 1000 vods) where he is showing mouse cam and displaying us good arm/wrist aim techniques with medium sens, fast flicks etc. He has been surrounded by ppl who are analysing aim for their jobs full-time, for 10+ years (eg. n0thing has a video on wrist vs arm aim, talking about practicing driver drills to get it down the best you can). He is also clearly talented with movement as a fps player and an intelligent guy.

Basically in this case I prefer to give the benefit of doubt with what I've seen (nothing conclusive that he does in fact cheat) and give him the respect he deserves from the years of LAN experience and travelling he did and some events won. Guy has an overclocked insane pc with higher fps than probably 99.9% of players too. But enough licking his ass for me, I prefer l1nkin P:

Let me guess, you don't think KQLY cheated on lan, do you?

Totally different case, nothing alike even. fwiw I think he probably did.

edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSkIerVELDc

So what, you ignore any evidence until an anti-cheat convicts him?

So what do you think will constitute evidence when you can no longer tell apart artificial from natural? Occasional 'glitches' and mishaps? Those will be taken care of too. Like deep fakes, It's not quite there yet, but it's pretty scary what "humanized aimbot" can already do. They are already experimenting with full blown bots masquerading as real players in overwatch.

Well nothing will constitute evidence. Even at this point in time people refuse to use their own brain no matter the evidence and just defer to a program.

So there's nothing we can do at that point, but rely on the verdict of a software? I personally don't like to put a limit on human potential, especially when everything starts passing the turing test. Point being, there are KQLYs that have been mistreated doing similar things with no recognition or special achievement, and without the aid of third-party software. The name escapes me right now, but there has been an instance where a popular person has been overwatch-banned in csgo, including other cases that are no-names. What can you say about these people and the people that facilitated their bans?

I would say unless you're willing to keep the AC retarded enough to be useless, ala punkbuster, you'll have false-positives either way. Nothing is perfect. That said, overwatch in csgo is not supposed to be for anything less than obvious. And rightfully so.

overwatch in csgo is not supposed to be for anything less than obvious

It used to be, until people started dishing out reports based on a hunch "just for good measure". And that attitude resulted in the bans of people like xantares and scream. I doubt anti-cheat development will be gaining serious momentum any time soon, but a balance needs to be stricken between ‘innocent until proven guilty’ and ‘guilty until proven otherwise’. How is someone who doesn’t see an ‘obvious’ cheat any different from someone who does, but is proven wrong in the long run anyway? A line needs to be drawn between proof and evidence. There has to be a solution that lies somewhere in-between, especially in the absence of a proper AC. Who’s the one to set the bar on what’s legit and humanly possible? ESR ‘experts’ like OP?

‘Just use braen & cummon snesne llol’ is not enough.

Cheaters, cheat coders and pro's are the best candidates for judges. AFAIK the 1.6 scene was operated by review. I know sombra wasn't banned by punkbuster or any AC. And OP may not be an expert, but those certainly exist and are capable of reviewing demos.

I think that quantum mechanics will save online gaming in the future and will catch 100% of the cheaters, without a single false positive.

It took what, half a century for football leagues to start relying on replays for accurate judgement? I don't think e-sports are that corrupt yet, but i don't see anti-cheat development making any "quantum leaps" any time soon. Unfortunately, there's more money to be made without a fair counter-measure, and the people in charge of the sport >industry< don't care much about the ethics of the business as long as it's profitable.

I fully agree but I'm not sure what you're implying exactly with the money part. You mean that cheaters are secretly welcome because they tend to spend more money than legit players? Or something even worse?

If everyone enjoys big plays by unknown cheaters it's better than small plays by known not cheaters.

I get that but that's more of a Twitch thing to me. Although I'm sure that I severely underestimate the importance of top streamers if you want a successful and hyped game nowadays. So yeah it makes sense of course.

Soon enough people will watch Cheater Strike tournaments filled with bots and "human avatars" as players.
Lel.

We are not talking about 100% certain here. We are talking about the murky 50% area, where both options are rather feasible.

Apparently there are hundreds of dodgy situations recorded. On the other hand there are thousands of hours of recorded material, so it's natural that some of it seems shady.

And yes, we could be 100% sure - if tournament organizers and game devs actually cared. But they don't. They are interested in selling their product and the product sells better if it is more spectacular to watch. So for all practical purposes they pretend that cheating doesn't exists and only become active when someone is cheating so blatantly that it can no longer be ignored or denied.
So for all we know, CS:GO professional play might be as 'clean' as professional road cycling, american sports (NFL, NBA, MLB) and mixed martial arts etc.
The technology exists, it has become mostly invisible to the human eye, nobody is really watching and there's tons of money to be made.

Streamers like shroud are the equivalent to fitness youtubers and instagram persons. Buy this supplement gaming chair, follow this routine and you might become as good as I am. Nevermind that my fridge is full of HGH computer is full of humanized aimbots.

That's the gist of it indeed, perfectly summend up. There's all the incentives of the world to cheat, and basically nothing opposing it. Except making it seem too obvious, but that's a very undefined border.

In the case of Shroud, he literally earned millions on that, and even if tomorrow it was universally accepted he cheated, and a big scandal popped up, what would happen?

Nothing of nothing, he would just stop streaming and keep living the vida loca in his penthouse mansion on the beach in California. Gg wp.

Just to add something, there's a general confusion that some people have that might be at play here. They have personal standards for what is 'guilty' and what evidence is required for that that work for interpersonal relations. You won't call someone a criminal if they were acquitted due to having not enough evidence in court. In interpersonal relations, you'll probably side with what the court says too.

However, if you look at a general probability as a free, theoretical discussion, you'll be able to recognize that there's a decent chance of cheating even if it isn't beyond reasonable doubt. And when talking about our understanding of the proscene and the like, streaming, it's fair to have this free discussion without applying this overly careful standard that we'd have in interpersonal relations.

If he finds it too tough, he can wipe his tears with money. He's in a privileged position and plenty of streamers, probably as good at him at the game, could take his place without having this level of shade. So no reason we can't discuss what the evidence, in our judgement, says about this.

Is the bottom line here that people online (i.e., those we so not have "interpersonal relations" with) or rich people are not entitled to the same default of "innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?"

It's all in the context. In a date or a discussion of who's fit for office or who's "best to watch", I think it's reasonable to disqualify someone much sooner. For a celebrity in a position that thousands compete to be in, a much higher standard can be reasonably applied, as long as you don't say they're guilty, just that it's a better societal decision to give the opportunity for someone without the [apparent possibility of] guilt. Obviously everyone's free choice will decide what happens, but I'm just speaking about what's reasonable criteria for making personal and in some instances professional decisions.

Doesn't mean that mindless online hate is good, or that I don't wish people learned how constructive criticism and stuck to it.

Another interesting clip

https://youtu.be/3LheYfeC7Ug?t=1727

He sees 4 opponents on a top of a hill very far away, he scopes over them and in a split second the crosshair scans over 2 of them, dead on, but he doesn't shoot, instead he jerks all the way to opponent on the left of the group and headshots him.
Even Shrouds acts puzzled.

What happened? In battle royale games it's very important to survive, more than in games like call of duty for example. So the aimbots have the function to target the most dangerous opponent first, aka the one with his crosshair over your body.

The most dangerous opponent in that group was the guy all the way to the left, because he was lining up his shot over Shroud. But Shroud couldn't know that, and so he feels his mouse giving up two perfect targets already perfectly lined up in favour of someone who isn't even in the scope.

Another example of a weird tidbit that actually makes a lot of sense when you know the underlying technicalities going on.

H chose to go for the guy who wasn't moving, more guaranteed hit :D

You said a lot about how easy it is to explain, sound, techniques, handcams. And now you're deflecting with humor. Oh haha, he wasn't moving. Yeah, you saw him too? Because to me it looks like that guy is out of the scoped fov, or do stationary players produce a specific sound? And where's the handcam?

He didn't seem to have troubles locking on speedhackers running at 300 mph around him tho

Thanks God there is esr to find all those blatant cheaters!1!!1!

No need to thank me, just pray daily.

Thank you for this contribution

I couldn't watch this for more than 60 seconds, but my common sense tells me this is just some angry person who has a boner for shroud. I really doubt this guy cheats. But I really don't care either way, watching streams of other people playing pubs in random video games seems like even more of a waste of time than browsing esreality.

This video removes frames from the clips to make the flicks look faster.

No, the video quality is low because it's a recording of a vod (since demo technology is an ancient secret that the gaming industry lost somewhere in the early '2000s), but the videos are clearly in real time

since demo technology is an ancient secret that the gaming industry lost somewhere in the early '2000s

our atlantis. rip.

who cares about that complete noobguy shroud.

Not sure if this posted yet.

Kills a guy > insta snaps onto another guy in car > decelerates and tracks guy in car.

I thought this moment was suss as fuck. Timestamped.

https://youtu.be/tYYhL8FvvKw?t=98

Never had even heard of shroud until a few years ago with the pubg/twich/dr disrespect hype.

Yeah it's somewhere in this 1h video from op.
Juicy clip indeed.

The snap to the guy in the car was a miss?

It was a hit and knockout.

You can see his kill feed just below crosshair. He gets 2 knockouts the second being the guy still in car.

In pubg squad when health hits zero you are knocked out which disables you, then you can either be revived by team or finished by enemy.

I could come up with a compilation of myself no different than the ones displayed here that would easily pass for incontrovertible evidence. A lot of us have had those perfect aimlock(-through-wall) instances throughout our lives, some more often than others. Take those instances out of context and they become irrefutable proof to the uninitiated. Just like in frag movies we tend to see only the shining moments of a someone who is otherwise a garbage player, in clips like these we only see what appears to be a circumstantially dodgy moment of what's otherwise a good player.

Cheats are getting better and better, but so is anti-cheat. Which one has a lead over which is variable and alternating in nature. Shroud has always been like this since pretty much day 1 of streaming - always flashy, consistent and utterly boring. (To continue) cheating and living in uncertainty every second, at this stage of his career is quite a stretch. The damage would be irreparable. Unless he's been leading a double life with access to classified technology and corrupt friends in 'high' places all this time, i highly doubt he's ever cheated, especially now where he's well off.

Hi Shroud.

Cheats are getting better and better, but so is anti-cheat. Which one has a lead over which is variable and alternating in nature.

:DDDDDDDD

(To continue) cheating and living in uncertainty every second, at this stage of his career is quite a stretch. The damage would be irreparable.

The same "logic" applied to Lance Armstrong in 2005 and we all know how that ended.

Yeah, it ended with official sanctions and admission -after- he retired, which is the whole point of that statement. And you can't just throw in an example like that into the mix. Armstrong's story is much more complicated with several people being complicit, and in a sport that has a far longer history than anything related to 'e-sports'.

You: it's unlikely that someone would risk a successful career by (continuing to) cheat.

Me: here is a famous exampfe of people doing exactly that.

You: but he didn't get caught ....

So what? He still risked his career ... people do it all the time. Your argument is incompatible with easily observable reality.

it's unlikely that someone would risk a successful career by (continuing to) cheat

I'm talking about shroud, not some random 'someone' from somewhereland whom i know nothing about. It's unlikely that he specifically would do that, for several reasons.

I'm not Dr. Philisopher, but your 'easily observable reality' is also easily superficial. You are the one generalizing. 'X and Y are professionals! If x did this, then y does it too! Therefore x and y are cut from the same cloth - because they're both professionals! Therefore, they are the same under all circumstances! Therefore x=y!!!'

That derogatory quotation-marked logic you mentioned a post above cuts both ways you know. Doing something illegitimate that you know for certain you will never get caught doing, is different to; doing something illegitimate and living in fear of being caught, but doing it anyway. I'm not quite sure which one you think applies to either Armstrong or shroud.

Like i said, if you're gonna bring up someone like Armstrong into the discussion and compare him to a someone like 'shroud', you better be able to follow up on that with something more than primitive inductions, my guy. The world and its people are not as simple as you may think.

You absolute fucking retard, go back to reddit.
Thanks <3

Listen boy, you need to STFU and learn to read.
Don't go into "but blablabla" mode, don't start making retarded arguments. Just STFU and read carefully:

1) at no point I have claimed that shroud cheats

2) at no point I have said "armstrong cheated so shroud cheats as well".

3) you made a stupid argument in comment #98 and I pointed out how this argument is stupid. This does not mean that shroud cheats. All it means is that your argument is stupid.



Now if you think of replying anything else than "sorry, you are right. I was being an idiot", you need to stop replying and you need to start reading again until you finally understand what was written. It's not that complicated, you can do it. Perhaps.

Armstrong technically got ‘caught’ by his oncologist when he was diagnosed with cancer, which is long before he retired. He was forced to spill the beans in order to receive a proper treatment. He was an extremely competitive, self-centered, and a very vibrant narcissistic bully. Might as well call him a psychopath. He was a hack from beginning to end, forced his teammates into doing the same, sued everyone who challenged his case, had several people backing him up and tampering with his blood work, labeled all skeptics as conspiracy nuts. He retired, because everything was leading up to him eventually getting caught, as drug testing procedures were picking up pace. He denied all official accusations to the bitter end, even after he was stripped off his medals. How much of that did you know before bringing him up in your misplaced reasoning?

If you think a manlet like shroud fits that profile (based on a half-baked youtube video that for some reason has only gained traction now), then you obviously don’t know much about him. There is some ‘shady’ stuff out there, but nothing truly out of the ordinary that I haven’t experienced myself on occasion. Maybe you didn't point fingers directly at shroud, but shroud is the subject matter in my original post, to which you replied. So, again, how is my argument 'stupid', besides being 'stupid'?

The only thing you've pointed out or made clear is your fanaticism. Maybe it's your own wording and your own reading comprehension that is the problem. Maybe the first step towards accurate judgment is personal first-hand experience, which you are obviously lacking. If i'm what i'm saying is so wrong and stupid and insignificant, then why do you bother? You know who would say something like 'stop replying'? A raging religious zealot who's been overtaken by emotions, like you. Instead of raging like a rabid dog, next time try coming up with a more relevant and coherent example to support your case, without taking things at face value. Sorry dude, but the only 'idiot' here is you. :(

People take dangerous risks and shortcuts to success? Is that all? Gee, you don’t say man.

I’m saying shroud in particular is unlikely to have done that, but you completely ignored that and turned a specific example into a false generalization. Whether you get caught or not is completely irrelevant.
You made me look like an idiot by making yourself one first. You’re the one with the reading problem.

You have some serious mental health issues.
Get well soon.

lance armstrong was still in competition against the worlds best where performance matters the most, you dont have an easy live as a professional cyclist placing 50th in tour de france ... where you are still in the top 1 % of pros btw ... in streaming its already enough to be in the top 3-5 % for your audience ... he can achieve that easily with his daily practice, so he doesnt need to cheat for keeping up his stream ... I doubt he cheats

There is no game which has more cheaters than cheater-strike. Busts of "pro players" in cs is seen quite regulary. There was/is a cheater site where you can get public hacks but those public hacks will be detected in the next VAC update. And there were adresses of private cheat coders who will code a private hack for you for a specific amount of money. Those private hacks get rarely detected due the ant-cheat coders need to know which security whole they are using to detect them. Thats why anti-cheat tools cant win the war.
There are/was clans of cheater. They had/have an own cheat coder.
Thats the main reason I quit cs since version 1.6

I wont say shroud cheats for sure due I watched just a few times how he played apex. In those apex games I always wondered how he can win almost always by outaiming his opponent. He weint into lots of 1v3 fights and killed them all alone. Okay there are lots of noobs there but he played rambo style even in ranked mode. I cant tell for sure but he is highly suspicious

Rolf Harris didn't do it

incredible messages

thanks

This guy was a famous cs go pro gamer, so obviously he is naturally talented. And his stream does not rely on absolute world class performance, because his stream with his natural aim skills is already entertaining enough, similar to toxic in Quake. And, on top of that, this guy still plays these games almost like a job, so he is maybe only 3% away from world class performance. It just doesnt make sense for him to cheat and risk his streamer career. Just stating the obvious. Of course there are some incredible shots, I myself also have sometimes really crazy shots where I flick and hit someone in some microframe window and wonder myself how I managed to do that ... also I am not sure a Video can really do justice on how the player actually saw it. I have a feeling things are different on 144hz monitor with 200 fps compared to some 25 fps compressed video.

Solid 5/10 bait.

I notice you're continuing to dodge any specific examples given elsewhere. So whatever you say is probably true in the general sense, but moot when you're not willing to ever address anything specific.

Your "he's too successful to cheat" line makes sense to... teenagers and younger. Did it make sense for any PED-taking athlete in almost every sport to risk their career with that? Or would have they even had that career, without it, if everyone else is on the juice? But yeah, THOSE athletes can't rely on their entertaining personality to retain their job the way shroud can, am I right?

an athlete in direct competition can cheat, yes that is true, I even believe almost everyone cheats in track & field, soccer, of course cycling, etc. ... I also believe there are many hobbyist players in a lot of games that cheat ... funny thing is even in chess, I know several people in real life who told into my face they were rated 2300+ in online blitz, and I found several of them rated at 1900/2000 ... even had a teacher in school who told he played chess online on IM level in blitz, I believed him and always wondered why he only performed 21xx in real life blitz tournaments, some day I found his account with current rating 21xx and a max rating of 23xx, but normal IMs are rated 2600 online ... even in chess people lie, youd think people might be more truthful there, it is so ridiculous, you can laugh your ass of more than 80 % of humans, degrees, smart sayings, its basically all just decoration, when they can lie and think they can get away with that uncaught they will try to do it ... the question always comes down to: Do they have an advantage to cheat? For professionals in most sports: Yes ... for narcissit wannabees investing a lot of time into training a certain thing and thinking of themselves as geniuses, but still only performing slightly above average: Yes, they are also likely to cheat, and of course bad mouth their competitors ... but Shroud, I dont see it, it doesnt matter if he plays world class performance, or 3 % below world class performance, his audience wont notice ... he still wins more than 95 % of the games and that is basically enough, he doesnt enter tournaments where he faces world class competition and has to fight for 1st prize, its enough to own the random nobodies in the battle royal match ... and basically anyone who has a fair amount of talent and would stream every day and practice every day would beat 95 % of the comptetion, mostly because of the simple fact, their talent is easily in the top 10 % and most people dont game as a job, so some guys who might be more talented will still lose, because they dont invest the same amount of time ...

All that text to spell out "he's too good to cheat". And if you think competition is the motivation for cheating I have a lot of supplements to sell you. You'll know they work because all the guys promoting them are totally natural because they say so and are not competing in the Olympia.

his aim skills are nothing special. that guy actually bores me.

maybe its because i was doing way better shots during my prime @arena shooter FPS.

Quake Champions is fucking shite

You are getting weird now

I'm normal. :D

edit:
some more skill for you,

If you can get a large crowd to believe you are legit you become legit even if you are not. It is all about Dark Magic making people see a perspective you want them to see.

Obvious cheater! Sad days we live in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNGFmUOVoTE#t=18m50s

yeah, right ...

bottom line: they are blatantly cheating on LAN.

Ridicolous shot, i don't even know if the script spazzed out or what. They were losing so bad he probably abused the toggling. What a farce of a scene

There are so many ways to cheat on qualifications. In addition, Shraud was only good against relatively weak teams. Well, he sometimes used software, because for this there are a lot of technical aspects in the video on which this is noticeable. And now, by the way, a video that can shed some light. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyrs03fXNc4

who can come up with the best explanation for this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-REJnOwAR0&t=862s
~ 14:25 ... 14:26

https://twitter.com/AntiCheatPD/status/1376079380565389315?s=20

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56579449

lmao all good! who even pays for these? must feel worthless inside

https://youtu.be/dldh8Umul0w

Once corporations and Hollywood get their hands on things, everything seems to go awry. Gaming, once owned and operated by passionate nerds, is now dominated by pseudo-Hollywood kids with affluent parents.

The children of this generation are born into gaming because it has become intertwined with Hollywood and corporate interests. For those who are discerning, the implications of corporate involvement are glaring.

Both indolent affluent adults and their privileged offspring are amassing wealth in the gaming industry, not through their own efforts, but because their parents can afford top-of-the-line computer equipment and more. Meanwhile, individuals from less affluent backgrounds and those deemed "losers" aspire to join the ranks of the rich and popular, willingly parting with their money. They are aware that even struggling streamers at the bottom of the hierarchy need financial support.

Have you ever wondered why aspiring rappers portray a lavish lifestyle in their videos even before achieving actual wealth? It's a ploy to attract viewers, exploiting the gullibility of some people. By garnering millions of views, they secure sponsorships from businesses and corporations, inundating your mind with their branding and content. In essence, you contribute to their wealth by providing them with views, enabling them to gain lucrative partnerships that perpetuate their influence.

Ever seen the movie "The Matrix"? Well, it's not too far-fetched. This is why I no longer support Twitch and Blizzard. It's no longer about nerds and gaming; it's CORPORATE HOLLYWOOD now, so anything goes. Hence, they haven't even tried to stop cheating because cheating is one of the ways corporations and Hollywood always run their businesses (LIES AFTER LIES = marketing, period). Shroud, Ninja, etc., used to cheat for sure; they are all liars and come from corporate big liars. On top of that, if you try to go against them, they have a cult of people you think are fans but they're AI bots, etc., making it seem like they are legit. You can't trust anything these days. I can show you a script that I can run to make me seem relevant online, and over 3 to 6 months, time you become relevant out of nowhere.

Nothing is real anymore; sad days are coming. If you think the world is messed up now, just wait; it gets really fun with time and technology.

Get well soon, Soviet!