Did a rerun bout a year ago. Still remembered everything.

Unpopular opinion but Doom 3 was a good game, it just wasn't doom.

It's pretty shitty horror game.

it was pretty shitty game. and if someone doubts my opinion they should ask for a sequel. i remember i was so excited about the graphics but as soon as it came out i was barely able to play it, and after i did, i never even tried to second run it, it was just a never ending closet scare hell with stupid cutscenes. but if you compare it to many other shitty game yes it does look kinda like a good game, and the more time passes the more i would think that it will only get worse with time and soon enough some cs or cod clone will look like a great achievement, because once vr goes mainstream we will all go fishing for 1 in a million chance of finding something worth looking at from art direction standpoint, industry is as dead as hollywood trying to make thought provoking movie dramas. they all just make a survey among biggest, most cash rich populace and target it with a grip of a dracula on a neck of some unsuspecting prey.

Poetic truth. The big game developers/publishers are not willing to take any creative risks, just like the big Hollywood studios are stuck doing big tentpole franchise movies, sequels, or remakes of classics. It's on indie studios to deliver something special, gameplay-wise. Of course, the big studios will almost always have products that look much better (generally speaking).

I'd go as far as to say it was a better Doom reboot than Doom 2016 and eternal are.

Both of them go in another direction from the classid Doom gameplay, but at least Doom 3 knew what it wanted to be, had a defined identity and goal, and was true to itself.

Doom 2016 is just a mishmash of random stuff, parkour, aim down sight, finishing moves, powerups, ultimates, rpg elements.

It isn't scary at all, and actually the artwork of demons etc is often even silly. Plus you have monsters everywhere lighting up like las vegas neon banners.

And it isn't as fast and fluid as the original, with the whole parkour, weapon upgrading and finishing moves breaking the action and the flow.

Doom was never scary to me though. I like blasting lots of monsters!

I disagree; I think Doom3 had no clue about what it wanted to be (same as Quake 4).

- Not a shooter because enemies (who you could shoot at) are very rare and mostly only need one/two shotgun shots.
- Not a puzzle game for sure, because you need actual puzzles for that
- Not a horror game because scare jumping at trigger points one after another is not scary at all.
- Multiplayer was a joke (the new ones are the same in this regard, but you can move in those at least)
- And it is obviously not storytelling, that assumption would be even bad for a joke.

As much as I hate the glory kills and the general direction of the genre (I think it’s devolved), both Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal wants to build upon the classic first person shooter concept. It is a matter of taste and personal preference if you like the new games or not, but the quality of the execution and the perceivable vision about what they wanted to achieve is clearly there.
I do not feel anything like that about Doom3, because I think it wanted to be a better game than hl2, but - at the end - it turned out to be something "not doom" with a more advanced engine only.

ps.: nothing comes close to the original

"- Not a horror game because scare jumping at trigger points one after another is not scary at all."

Well then there is no such a thing as horror game. Or scary horror game. It may not have been scary to you , but it's like complaying a horror movie is boring because you're desensitized to gore after years of browsing Rotten, or that porn vanilla movies aren't exciting because yoo can only get off on dark web's snuff movies.

Doom 3 was pretty scary, it had a good atmosphere. People complained it was too dark and you couldn't see shit, it's true but it was a fitting gimmick and made things interesting with the vanilla flashlight. The mods that made the flashlight permanent completely broke the gameplay.

Also all monsters were dangerous at higher difficulty, which should be considered because i see all the streamers playing doom eternal only on the highest difficulty.

Maybe it wasn't the right direction to take at the time, they should have just went with a HD engine version of the original doom and ti would have been great, but they tried something and that something is more coherent and real than Doom 20016, imo.

I never minded the permanent flashlight, I welcomed it.

But the BFG edition gave way too much ammo which made the game far too easy, a lot of improvements but a couple of "improvements" made the game way too easy after going back to the original doom 3.

I'm not sure if it was better than doom 2016 but it was a damn good game.

I really enjoyed 2016, not groundbreaking or the best game of all time but a solid 8/10, did exactly what it promised, killing monsters and having a fun time doing it.

d3 was more horror fps than action, at least for the first 5-6 levels, then only boring design and same situations, again and again

+1for Parkour

doom 3 is quake 2 in doom.

Exactly my opinion. Levels 2 to 7 are from American McGee. First one is from Sandy Peterson. Those first 7 levels defined what Doom is for me.

Didn’t you like the 7th one?

Oh so you mean it gets less cool after map7?

Im on map 6 now, The Crusher.

I had the urge to post bc wow

It gets more cool IMO.

Map 7 is basically like a "boss" arena (very simple---it's even called "dead simple") signalling that you are about to enter the bigger more difficult levels.

Yeah this level rocks, music is badass too.

It's a good one. I believe the track is called "Shawn's Got The Shotgun", which makes sense to me since you pick it up as soon as you enter the level. :D

unfortunatly i think its getting terribly afterwards, especially the city maps. could not enjoy it. except for the very last level, icon of sin. i am curious what you will think.

Have to agree, the city maps arent bad but theyre way more generic. The first levels are very crafted and thought out, they have personality with balanced logic and creativity.

There's 23 levels after level 7 (and two secret levels), and not many of them could really be described as generic city maps. Besides, what's generic in 2020 wasn't generic in 1994. There aren't really any games with similar looking maps from before 1994, and they don't really resemble real human cities either---you'd play Duke Nukem for that.

You seem to imply some thing from that opinion that you don’t like. Maybe it is not something that we do imply?

I'm not implying anything. : )

relax, the first maps after 7 mostly looks like cities, on the first levels you see there was a clear idea behind each map. We can disagree anyway, its an amazing game and will play it till the end.

D O O M
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My point is just that what looks generic now was quite original when the game came out. There is a definite city theme (it's Hell on Earth after all), but they did that city theme in a way that was unique to Doom.

Enjoy the game; I hope that you enjoy more than just those first few levels. The people that made them also made many of the later levels too.

Check out some fan-made megawads. The original Dooms were just mediocre demos of the engine.

Definitely not and most fan made megawads are shit, you have to be a little more specific.

yeah wtf, original dooms are the grandfathers of FPS, games were named doom clones for years before the term FPS started to be used...

of course the levels in the original game will forever be iconic, but as most veteran Doom fans would agree: the best levels were stacked in the first part of the game (included in the shareware version) and towards the end.

there's many filler levels in-between that are not that well remembered and haven't aged as well.

that being said, in the last decade, custom level mappers are creating levels with orders of magnitude more experience and understanding in every aspect of the game. there's really a ton of custom episodes out there that surpass the original maps in texturework, layout creativity and consistency.

this is true for both Doom and Quake.

there's tons of quality stuff out there: UAC Ultra, Back to Saturn X, Sunlust, Winter's Fury etc etc.

even Sigil episode by John Romero released on Doom1 anniversary was really good.

If you have a comprehensive list of good wads that you've played from doom/quake I'd be more than appreciative

Came here to say this - there is a wealth of wonderful level design in the DOOM modding community. Appreciate the Id Software designers and look beyond them to the masterpieces of later modders - stuff like Sunlust and Valiant just blows the original titles out of the water quite frankly - it just makes the originals looks crude

Anymore?

Thanks!

Ancient Aliens, Struggle: Antaresian Legacy, Alien Vendetta, Memento Mori I + II (classic community megaWADs), Deus Vult.

All you gotta do is hit up the DOOM Cacoawards for each year and they will give you the best ones.

Enjoy!

Thanks man

What doom mod do you use, eg. ezdoom etc?

gzdoom

Really appreciate it thanks bud

I use prboom. It’s as close to the original gameplay wise plus modern features.

cheers

Try Chocolate Doom if you want something as close to Vanilla Doom as possible.

Is this a bait? :D

Haha no, it's real.

https://www.chocolate-doom.org/

Appreciate it man but after a while I got used to gzdoom, it's nice having an actual crosshair tbh.

Saying that I do intend on beating the original dooms as close to vanilla as possible, but ofr now I will continue to use this superior version.

I definitely know what you mean.

If you're looking for a challenge, you can play it keyboard only. That's how a lot of people, if not most, played it when it first came out. :D

Challenge accepted

lol you play with jump and crosshhair and talk about a challenge

I don't play with jump, just a crosshair.. ignored

I just downloaded Sunlust and started the first level.

1. The track of that first level is pretty annoying and i want to turn it off.
2. I enter the first room, of a way too bombastic entry point, and i face a Mancubus and a Revenant.

This starts not very well. How do they want to create a suspense curve if everything is big from the beginning? The Mancubus was some kind of boss enemy in Doom 2 which was introduced in the 7. level.

Anyway i will play it. I want to know if there are things that are really better.

It depends what you're looking for - that particular mod appeals to the seasoned player who can handle higher difficulty levels and who is used to the usual tropes and trappings of DOOM2 level design. The intensity is there because that's what's expected from veteran players.

map05 now. turned down the music volume. map02 was quite nice.

since then the gameplay is like. activate a switch, see myriads of enemies either spawned in or revealed. get into the next level. face myriads of enemies in front of yourself off the start. it boils down to playing the same situation over and over again to find out which enemies are to be killed in which order with which weapon.

level design i think is okish. atmosphere is, yea, no. it is heaviliy focused on fights which you need to approach like a puzzle. its all about arenas and its composition of enemies. i want something atmospheric which goes under my skin. i don't want to play Doom elitist puzzle maps. (yet)

anyway, won't continue to play Sunlust. It is no fun for me.for sure because i am missing skills. played on ultra violence though. but yeah, in don't want to play sport focused maps. i want atmosphere and fun fights.

try UAC Ultra or Romero's SIGIL

Installed UAC Ultra and play the first level on Hurt Me Plenty.

The level has a very good flow. Really liked it and it was above the ordinary original Doom level. Ok i can say, this thing improved globally. Like it very much.

Next thing is the atmosphere. They did stay pretty close to the original Doom feeling. Textures are party new i think. Those are ok. Atmosphere is about ok. And they did try to not spawn the monsters blantly in. They are positioned and you can approach them. I like that a lot more than activating a switch and not able to walk anymore because of myriads of monsters.

Music is ok, not as good as the original.

First map was a decent single player campaign story experience. But i did not get the Doom feeling. Flow of the map was top notch.

Maybe also them try to be too correct about the details of their levels. It is like they want to be realistic. Like already said, i think being realistic in an engine like the Doom engine is not fitting. That is also the thing i have to moan about the level. Though the flow is super good, the architecture does not leave enough room for fantasy. It is not abstract enough for my taste. Look at this room for example. Maybe it makes clear what i mean.

[img1]

Ok played level 1 to 6. It is quite the fun. Really good feeling. Especially level 6 was like a trip of killing. thx for the recommendation aqua

Not being a dick but you got a defeatist mentality...

Find a way to overcome the hard parts instead of giving up so soon

Installed Valiant now. Played the first level.

The music is way better here. The first level i think has a very good flow. This is level design i like. I did not like the huuuge levels of Romero with a lot of backtracking. I like maps where i do not have to think too much about how to progress.

What they did is, they used a new texture set. I don't know, it is not nearly as fitting as the original one. The first map looks kind of ugly for my taste. Not fitting into the Doom world. It is some kind of realistic looking corporate building or something. I think in engines like this you should not try to be too concrete with what you show. They should not be to make it look like it was a real environment because for that the engines sucks huge time. But this is what they do. And their textures are meh.

[img1]

Also they changed the look of the HUD. They cannot change this and still use Doom monsters. It just does not fit. The HUD looks like Matrix. Matrix in the Doom world? Tf?

Also here like in Sunlust. Activating a switch. See myriads of enemies spawned in. So much that you cannot even walk anymore. Played on Hurt Me Plenty this time. This is not very fun gameplay because it leads to saving the game before activating a switch and then playing the situation over and over again until the result is satisfying. Like in Sunlust, this is more like Puzzle Doom. Challenge Doom. Sport Doom. Elite i need a big challenge Doom. I cannot prepare for the situation that is coming. I am thrown into it and trying to do the best out of it. I cannot go into the situation deciding over my own commitment.

But the flow of the map is veeeery nice. This is a thing a lot of levels in the original Doom were missing. Level 2 of Doom 2 was a map that had it. And very nice atmosphere. Atmosphere of the first level here in Valiant is meeeeeeeh. And at the end, for me, it is the atmosphere that makes the last 10% to get over the 100%. 110%. The atmosphere is the special secret ingridient. Without it the game will be forgotten in an instant, regardless of how good the gameplay is, or the graphics, the sound design, the level design.

The atmosphere and all of the other aspects combined is what i am looking for. The real true Doom experience. I am looking for 110%. The thing level 2 of Doom 2 has. Listen to what this guy has to say about Underhalls: https://youtu.be/qYKv4vfXPMo?t=283 Starting at 4:43

Glad you like it for the most part. If you're looking for atmosphere and spine-tingling there are WADs out there - you just have to do a bit of a search for them. Can't think of anything off of the top of my head.

Are you the author of that?

Been playing through Sunlust on UV, tough as old boot but rewarding, you always have to keep on your toes throughout... really liking it.

you only say that because i did not like it

Dude stop acting weird or ill put you on ignore..

i am through UAC Ultra. What's next? I heard Sigil is shit, don't want to play it.

I don't think sigil is shit... it's just not as good as the original set of levels.

A guy I watch on YouTube who's actually entertaining is a boy called civvie, he plays through Sigil..

Why in fact not

Stopped at the 4. level or smthg, where the pillars are coming from the top. This is stupid. Until then it was quiet ok, sometimes even nice.

http://doomedsda.us/wad2750.html

Can‘t make it past the first pillars xD

Finally i make it nicely over the pillars. I don‘t play with saving.

haha thats fun

Craziest shotgun in a computer game

noice : )