"cooller has better lg/dodges"

Better dodge perhaps, nowhere near better lg.

He isn't overrated at all because he's never rated himself as top, it's other people which impose their ratings on him and what he should be like.

Agreed. This thread is meaningless. I think everyone with half a brain ranks Toxic appropriately, somewhere in the Top 10.

I think everyone equally realizes that he has some holes in his game, without which he could be even better.. but since he's had those for more than a decade, probably noone expects him to get rid of them and suddenly become Top 3 either.

you are noobshit

You are my bitch, buddy. Come see me any day of the week to get raped, in Quake or IRL ;)

You wont take a single frag moron, you are trash.

Continue hiding, n00b. Never participate in any tournament, LAN or online, so you'll never receive your proper whooping.

Not hiding, streaming publicly, youtube public.

You are just a fucking trash and a no name, nobody knows who you are. So you blabble shit online.

40 second clips of playing FFA against nobodies, streaming without showing your mouse, is your idea of "public".

Yeah, let's not make this about me vs. you. You don't need credentials or a name to beat you. ANYONE here would whoop you ;)

I mostly play duel noobshit.

Most players with whom I play duels, will rape you senselessly in zero.

Why would I stream mouse lol? Do you think that I am hacking?

Everybody here owns you in Quake. Everybody here would slap your little malnourished drunk Russian ass IRL. And you're at the mercy of everybody, ESR, Twitch, Youtube that can ban you for cheating and trolling anytime they choose.

Continue pushing your luck, newbie. Let's see how long you last.

Nobody on esr knows how to play quake or will be even able to beat Dima lol.

You are a fucking loser trash.

Good luck getting Sanchez banned anywhere noob shit.

nah, he's kind of right

you got a very good smooth aim and you know how to reach rather high/high accuracies

watched you play QC tdm
1st it was against noobs
2nd you're to opposite of cooller, you got no dodge but never ever spam not even a single lg shell in order to boost your acc
this style wouldn't work against anyone that is above sub-top, at duel

not talking about q4 cuz it's irrelevant, game isn't that bad, but makes no sense to own sub-tops at monsoon only map played

no wonder why you use such high acc against noobs to sub-top, they move like trash and you can apply your aiming style perfectly

no be a man and duel someone like cooller, at qc, you both russian, maybe if you're polite and behave normally with him he will accept a duel, and then you'll understand all of what i've said previously

qc does not have duel mode you dumb trash

I have a much better dodge than cooller and a much better aim, much better map control and much better movement speed.

But I have never played QC and never will, you moron :)

Dima lolZoR

might rape you

If only that could happen! lolZor!

He isn't overrated at all because he's never rated himself as top, it's other people which impose their ratings on him and what he should be like.

yep that's my point ^^

Better dodge perhaps, nowhere near better lg.

lg is about dodge related to aim, the more you dodge, the more you have to mouse aim with rather high reaction time, the less you dodge, the more you strafe-aim, the worst your "true" mouse-aim

cooller is a lg master, because he can both dodge and hitting hard at the same time, not particularly in term of raw accuracy, but more about raw damage

Duel rewards lg aim over lg dodge. That's why players like Cypher and Serious are able to effectively abuse it in duel. Dodging is only helpful in 1v1 lg situations which pros know how to easily avoid. And Cooller's lg is pretty meh at times. His tracking lags behind like he has slow reaction speed.

Duel rewards lg aim over lg dodge.

nah, you can't say that, that's actually ovesimplifying aim/dodge in duel, it actually depends on A LOT of diff parameters

I don't believe I've seen Cooller lose a 1on1 LG fight in QPL. Even against Cypher he pretty much held his own.

The discussion about LG aim vs dodging is moot. In a 1on1 LG fight, if you don't move, you will lose - the end. There is no "just aiming, not dodging" when you got an LG pointed at you.

I dont believe QC requires aiming when you do lg vs lg, with slow and huge hitbox movement.

idiots opinion on duel

The thing is QC dont reward such agressive aim and combat based style unfortunatelly.
Thats why players like vengeurr and RATSY exist, who are avoiders of taking fights when it comes to top tier opponents. You can argue that they arent n1 but even in game like QL (exept dm13 and ztn when it comes to hiding in same room) they would get rekt like by 20+ frags vs superior aimers because QL itself would allow you more to convert superior combat skills into frags, and no way they would be contenders for being top3 like they luckily do in QC.
As for Tox, he was former tdm player in Q3 at first, but once he could combine that aiming with learning duel he dominated the scene in the later days, followed by total domination in Q4 and even his moments of shine in QL like on that quakecon where he owned 'strategic' pacman rapha by almost combat skills alone.

Vengeur is like Toxic, but better. As showed in the last tournament, where Toxic was running and hiding most of the time.

Also i don't know if you've ever actually watched Raisy, the guy is too reckless for his own good.

vengeur hits 30% and is 16 y.o.

The thing is QC dont reward such agressive aim and combat based style unfortunatelly.

? did we watch the same streams/matches ? ;D

Thats why players like vengeurr and RATSY exist, who are avoiders of taking fights when it comes to top tier opponents.

not sure about vengeur but wtf you sayin about raisy :D, have you ever seen him play in 2017-2018, have you even watched his stream in 2020 ? :D
raisy is good only because he applies "you have to know when to be agressive and when not to be agressive" (c) cooller, at near perfection level

but once he could combine that aiming with learning duel he dominated the scene in the later days

eh? :D did we play the same 2004+ q3 era ? toxjq didn't win a single major duel tourney at q3 during that time

followed by total domination in Q4

i explained why he dominated q4 already, to keep it simple, it wasn't because he got unhuman combat-skills but rather because of no real top competition at some point and just the game rewarding agressiveness more

even his moments of shine in QL like on that quakecon where he owned 'strategic' pacman rapha by almost combat skills alone.

almost every aim beasts managed to beat rapha once in his whole career, doesn't mean much, compared to cypher & rapha wins streak

world class players are totally overrated

Toxjq is just too aggressive, and tries to force his hyper-aggressive playstyle to work. I've watched so many matches that he just goes tunnel vision, tries to force a situation with his superior aim, and fails.

It probably worked much better in Q4 because his aim was so far ahead of everyone else's, but the difference is not that big in QC and also pure aim does not matter that much in QC as it did in Q4 (which has smaller maps, and faster movement).

It worked in quake 4 because Rapha, Cypher and Avek were babies.

Even then, his infamous "reign of terror" only lasted 2 years.

Yeah, "only" the life cycle of the game. He "only" obliterated his competition mentally. It's like crying that Mike Tyson "only" won in the first rounds.

toxjq domination is not even close the Sanchez domination

Not a single player took a single frag

hows that

how that?

it's wrong. Cause I owned you 15 times in a row, with 70:-10 score lines

toxjq domination is not even close the Sanchez domination

Not a single player took a single frag

hows that

coz q4 lasted 2 years.
q4 was perfect for his playstyle and it came at the right time in his career

q4 is alive right now

I've heard that Toxjq trains by playing against medium skill players so that way he can experience as many combat situations as possible and that's how he keeps his aim sharp.

I don't know if that makes him all aim and no brain but his training seems interesting.

Toxjq should go back to 400dpi again. When he first started using the g403 it was like I was watching someone who had mastered the lg. Never seen such good lg since. Even better than Serious lg imo. I get that he is using high sens now so that he can be good with all the weapons but I feel like he was better before. I wonder if he knows that the logitech sensors has accel too.

And he will always lack in rockets compared to the top pros and never be top 3 unless he gets rid of his glass pad and start's using some accel. His setup is good for lg but not for rockets.

Toxjq should go back to 400dpi again.

why ? makes no sense

I get that he is using high sens now

24cm was his main sens at q4, and he is still at 800dpi sens 2.2x, which is 24cm too

24cm is not high sens, it's medium and closer to be low(>25cm) than high(<20cm)

And he will always lack in rockets compared to the top pros

people overrating toxjq also usually say bullshit like this above, toxjq rox are actually really good

Lucker

https://clips.twitch.tv/InventiveThankfulLardMau5
https://clips.twitch.tv/BillowingPlainKoupreyRedCoat
https://clips.twitch.tv/VictoriousLongNoodleHotPokket

i miss my battles over quad with you, maybe in the next quake

https://www.twitch.tv/memphisfps/clip/Confide...;sort=time

member when slash would slide forever dropping like that

lmao that's so good

Bug nor no bug, that's hilarious :)

You are stupid to judge skill by QC which takes no skill at all.

QC takes more skill than raping your ass in Q4.

Can only speak for myself but back in the Q3 and Q4 days he was literally the only guy that made me feel like there was nothing i could do.

I played vs Fatality, Cooller, Fooki, Stermy, Vo0, CZM and the list goes on.

And vs all of them there was always a path even if it was hard but vs Toxic it just felt overwhelming.

Still alive then :)

Sometimes :)

lol you don't know despair if you have not played vs Sanchez

toxjq is still slow and soft on control

Yeah, you're that good that you get beat by every noob and his mates ie. Moma

You got slapped by him yesterday, twice! You really do suck bumhole.

"Moma beats you"

Open your fucking eyes blind fucked animal

It is ok to get beaten

Sanchez is unbeatable figure.

Ah i forgot for a moment

if moma is a noob why dont you go beat him lol??

I can expect 60-0 towards 99% of ESR "users" including piss ass faye and other kovaak kids

I have no idea who you are but if you say so :)

It's safe to say his arms shouldn't be allowed to venture outside a white vest. You don't need to know more about him than that :)

Haha, thanks for the information :)
Guess i really have been out of the loop for a long time.

morons with 15% lg talk to god lol

shut up and look at your real place in food chain being owned by everyone out there.

Take toxjq in his prime, double the aim %, double the strafe speed, tripple the map control intensity, you get Sanchez that is going easy mode and 0.01% power

Toxic is the only quake duelist to have totally dominated a certain period. Rapha was regarded number one because he won more tourneys than anyone else, toxic held the top spot because he was untouchable.

He wasn't untouchable. I managed to touch him once. Never washed that hand again because he tore it off my body

yeah :(

He was only "untouchable" because of lack of opposition

Gr8 b8 m8, i r8 8/8.

he's right tho

that + q4 favorizing aggro playstyle

nah.

besides av3k

who ?

crouch-sliding + small maps ?

have you heard about Cooller and fatality?

I rape them all easily.

nah. you rape noone, everyone rapes you.
You are the bitch of quake.

+fox
+cypher
+dahang
+stermy

Not to mention that the money was pretty big, too.

diman would clap stermy in duel and 1v1 instagib on rails

12 years ago? Why didn't they?

right now

what you live in the past

12 years ago is not relevant in 2020

12 years ago they had 5% LG aim on quakecon championship and people thought its sick aim

fatal1ty career ended in 2003

by career i mean being the best at the only legitimate quake that is/was quake III arena

i don't count painkiller as it's not quake

i do count q4 where he did pretty good at the beginning but then realized the time to invest into q4 in order to make good amount of money wasn't worth it anymore, that's why he started his own brand/company with creative

cooller never try-harded q4, past 2006, but when he did, post 2006 he was toe to toe with toxjq, if not slighly better

fox never won a major duel tourney at any quake, and was always in the shadow of toxjq

cypher wasn't at his full potential yet, cypher only started to be extremely consistent in his results after 2007

dahang, kind of same syndrom than fox, always in the shadows of rapha and never pretended nor did beat toxjq at q4 just cuz he wasn't talented enough to be #1 (all times top5 is his consistency)

stermy xD

you found a complicated way of saying cooller and fat both stopped playing Q4 when they could no longer compete with tox.

gg

nobody can compete with sanchez,

you are all worthless noobs

and yet literally everybody can easily rape you in any Quake game. LOL

Literally nobody can take even a single frag vs Lord.

And you are dogshit trash will be raped 60-0 by dima or resp when you enter quake 4.

i raped you 70:-5 ten times in a row. LOL

you have raped your own brain so hard you dont have it anymore, its an empty trash hole

nah, I raped you.
In Q4.
Until you ragequit.

L2P noob

You never played q4 noob shit

I did. When I raped you and shat in your face.

So how does that theory hold up with Cooller raping Toxic in any quake version since 2008? Funny how that works. Does Toxic roll over to give him a false sense of security? That Toxic guy is so kind, always gifting wins to inferior duelers, eh?

Cooler is by far the most superior dueler of the two, always have been, always will be.

Cooller raping Toxic in any quake version since 2008

Have we been watching the same people or do you just throw out "rape" to mean "win" as opposed to "dominate your opponent in a way reflected by frags"? I don't remember cooller raping any pro ever. He could always win, but it was never with domination - it was map control and patience and the scores always reflected that.

I was more trying to reflect constant win over a long time span, rather than how he won the individual matches, yes Cooller isn't one to beat someone 20:5, i still have flashbacks of that (excellent) 1:0 match with CZM on dm13

I get different types of flashbacks from those, I don't like watching football.

I remember toxjq raping (in the true quake sense) in the finals though, on a comeback, on AWAY turf. I also remember toxjq being a dominant TDM player, in ANY quake. I also see you conveniently picked 2008, as QuakeCon 2007 was the one with Q1,Q2,Q3,Q4. Yeah, the one tox won. Fun fact - cooller has no quakecon to his name.

You remove Q3 from history and you would have never known who cooller is. You remove Q3, Q4, TDM - you still would know who toxjq is.

Yeah the memes were awesome, but they were just that.

Literally nothing of what you say detracts from my statements: Cooller is ten times the dueller Toxxic has EVER been or will ever be, and that's all it matters. Toxic is a good TDM player, that's true. He's been in the strongest TDM team ever.

But who the fuck cares. Cooller is a better dueller, and every time he and Toxic meets in a tournament, you know perfectly well who the overwhelmingly favourite is.

And that's Cooller. There are even strongest duellers- and Toxic isn't between them. Looking him playing duel is simply painful, he has the aim of a literal aimbot (well not quite, Serious's aimbots are set higher), and yet he struggles in literally everything else, in the literal basics, after 15 years of incessant practice.

I think there is a bigger difference between cooller in toxic in duel, than in tdm.

I don't think there is much doubt that toxic became the best q4 player, but in q3, ql, qc, but there isn't much comparison in terms of achievements between the two players. To add to that, cooller did win a LAN in q4 and toxic has ever posted any significant (wins) duel result outside of q4.

In terms of tdm, toxic had the benefit of being in one of the best, if not the best, tdm team of all time. I think you can take lots of players that can output high damage, swap him with toxic, and ic-'s position in the history of q3tdm does not change.

To add to that, cooller did win a LAN in q4 and toxic has ever posted any significant (wins) duel result outside of q4.

Qcon 2007 - quakes 1,2,3,4 - toxjq.

Cooller is 90% meme.

Edit: And you could swap cooller with 10 other illiterate eastern europeans and duel would be the same. He's not special outside of the memes.

You're really talking about cooller being a "meme" while bringing up the QC2007 tournament... literally a meme cup, which just happened to give toxic the tournament by having Q4 played in the final two matches in a BO5? The same tournament cooller didn't even participate in?

Yes? One tourney meme vs a meme career? Yes.

A tournament that was basically a crap shoot. If you got lucky, your game(s) were selected and the cup went in your favour. Not a good example.

Oh as opposed to the whole fucking scene returning to the game(not to mention mode) that favors YOU for 15 fucking years? That's a good example? You think if QuakeLive was Q4 in a browser tox would've fallen off the way cooller did in QL?

Are you suggesting toxic wasn't playing q3 for those 15 years and wasn't trying to duel?

Do I think toxic would've fallen off? I don't know. The q4 scene was small, and if it, for argument's sake, was as large, and as competitive as q3, I think you could make the argument that there is a likelihood that someone would've displaced toxic, or at least challenged him regularly. But this is just speculation, and doesn't really serve any particular point.

Going back to what I suggested initially, I think as a duel player, cooller has accomplished more, and that their ability to perform in duel is wider than their ability to perform in tdm. Yes, that means taking into consideration only what they have demonstrated, and not speculating about an alternative reality where qw/q3/cpm/q4 were the effective standard of duel.

No, I'm suggesting q3 always favored cooller and that bias (coupled with the great memes from cooller) has clouded your judgement on his greatness. I can put cooller into the greatest quakers, just because of his q3 career, but then I would still put tox on top of him. Toxjq was better on average in all quakes than cooller AND he was more dominant in his best game than cooller was in his (that is to say - cooller was never dominant, he always shared the spotlight).

I'm not sure I agree that q3 favoured cooller because toxic comes from q3 as well. In fairness with respect to q3, it has had the longest, most competitive scene, of any of the quakes. There is a reason why it weighted more heavily than accomplishments in other quake games.

I agree that toxic was more dominant in his game than cooller was, but in fairness q3 was just a much (much) larger competitive community than q4 ever could dream of being, and I don't think there has every been any one player that has completely dominated the scene. That doesn't mean if q4 was larger, that toxic couldn't have been as equally dominant for as long, but I think you can see the point I'm making here.

This "better on average in all quakes" I think is a fun bar discussion to have much like "who is the best footballer of all time," but to a certain degree it's difficult to compare. They are both incredible players that have helped quake move forward in different ways.

Q3 favors cooller because it's dumbed down and his aim is inferior to tox's. I mean tox's aim is still better in Q3, BUT the differential gets worse the more control or skill-based techniques are introduced i.e. crouchsliding, aircontrol, etc. It favors all players willing to camp for 10-15 minutes, it punishes aggression, how could it not favor someone as passive as cooller?

I'd like you to clarify your position as I'm under the impression that as you remove skill-based techniques, aim becomes more influential, but if that's the case why didn't toxic dominate duel in q3? Yeah, I'd agree that vq3 favours defensive style, but merely being defensive isn't enough to become a player of cooller's caliber imo.

No, the other way around. I edited it, maybe you read an old version. Q3's slow gameplay allows players like cooller, with worse aim but better patience, to exploit the extreme passiveness. It's why cooller is consistently better than tox in vq3/ql but at the same time never really dominant in the scores.

Q3 is dumbed down? Compared to what? Not quake 4, i hope you're going to say. Because if q3 was dumber than quake 4, Toxic would reign supreme

It's dumbed down compared to everything except QL.

In your opinion

Pick your gender.

consider suicide

You're tripping. Fast doesn't equal smart. Otherwise, again, Toxic wouldn't struggle beating tier b opponents.

Dumbed down in the skill department... Like I've been saying for years, reducing the skill ceiling only increases the impact of tactics, it doesn't give you more in the way of tactics.

Being more aim based does NOT make it have a higher skill ceiling. With your logic, CS:GO >>>>>>>>>>>>> Any quake

I've never said anything like that. Q4 is less dumbed down because it presents more mechanics than Q3. Namely crouch-sliding and tele and pad weapon interaction. It's not much but for sure it's more than vq3. It's why I said everything except QL, even Q2 has doublejumps.

And let me get this straight, you think CS is more aim-based than quake? The game which can be won, in theory, without killing anyone? The game with actual objectives and teamplay and, yes, ACTUAL tactics?

Oh come on, having projectiles trough teleporters isn't enough to make quake 4 more advanced. The butt scooting made it actually less advanced, because it made it a rushing game. Quake 3/live is more tactical, powerups handling and positioning matters a lot more.

Yeah, adding q4's teleporters in quake 3/live would be nice, i'd be all for it. I'd even add Warzow's wallbounce.

And i don't even know which game you're referring to when you say "winning without killing". I really don't know if you're talking about CS or quake, because in either case that's ridicolously wrong and made up lol

The butt scooting made it actually less advanced, because it made it a rushing game.

Yep, that's the cope I expect from vq3 fanboys. Gotta disregard reality somehow.

Quake 3/live is more tactical, powerups handling and positioning matters a lot more.

Again, it's not more tactical. It's just as tactical as any quake bar QW or CPM (due to a different armor and health system and aircontrol they have more tactics available). The decisions you get to make are no more varied (actually less than any aircontrol game). Your argument is the same as "well the more pieces you remove from chess the more tactical it is". Retarded. But I'm used to it by now. Gotta cope that the clearly mediocre meme players are somehow gods. Even though nobody has dominated any of their disciplines. AGAIN - tic-tac-toe is not more competitive than chess, it's just dumbed down. The reason nobody could dominate the game is the same reason why everything was so close. SKILLS ARE NOT REWARDED, PATIENCE AND CAMPING IS. IT IS DUMBED DOWN.

And apparently I have to school you on what CS is. You see in quake duel you can only win by a frag differential, that is the metric. In CS you play for ROUNDS. And rounds are objective based - you CAN kill the whole team OR you can complete the objective for your side. That rewards a round. And it doesn't matter that team X has more frags than team Y when team Y has reached 16 rounds.

could you stop insulting people?

What? Ever?

is this your online dig which you grew in this thread? because reasonable people gave you attention?

Did you misspell something else into "dig"? I don't know what you mean.

Fuck off

I'm serious, wtf did you mean?

You forgot to say please.

You forgot to say please

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yOzBy5vSQy8

Lmao you've got to be trolling. Winning without killing in counter strike, quake 4 being more skill based than quake 3.... you Toxic dickriders are by far the most delusional people in the quake community. And it ameks no sense, you just chose the least defendible player of all the pros and try to make him into some unbeatable timeless genius, when every sunday he spends half the time doing goofy shit, running into corners, completely disregarding item timing, eating rockets like they give life instead of removing it.

Listen, cope all you want, his results are better than cooller's. We've shown this and all you have is "nuh uh". If your boy was better YOU would be the one arguing results.

What are talking about, Cooller's results are unquestionably better. The fact you consider quake 4's result more significant matters to you and 5 other people maybe.

moron come q4 and you wont be able to do shit

I bet your strafe is dogshit, and you cant ramp jump even

The only morons are the esr mods that refuse to ban you because they need you spam to keep the site alive

I am the only player on ESR who actually has any real skill and gaming power.

You are all just meaningless spammers here.

You probably sucked some mod's cock to be still not banned

Why? They are my big fans.

But this site does not even ban a guy all of whos posts in the last 3 years are referencing to sitting on a bottle with racist hate.

You're actually right on that, that racist psychopath monomaniac called Zected should have been banned long ago. But in his case, it's clear the admins share his political and ethnical views

Mods on ESR? Lol....

In fairness with respect to q3, it has had the longest, most competitive scene, of any of the quakes.

I initially agreed on the longevity, but on second thought, Q3 is '99-'04/5, QL is '10-'16/'17/'18. So unfortunately not true. But it doesn't matter. How do you judge the quality of the competition?

I mean if we're going to split Q3/QL, which I think is fair, then cooller has been a better dueler than toxic than 3/4 games. If we're going to treat them as one game, which I think is also reasonable, then it has had the longest competitive scene, and I would argue the most competitive scene in terms of skill.

Again, my argument - tic-tac-toe is not more competitive than chess, just dumbed down. Q4 exposed this because it had the q3 and ql greats and it wasn't close in that game. You don't go "oh yeah, well let's play tic-tac-toe, it's more competitive" when you get mated in the early game, do you?

I'm wondering if you really think the difference between q3 and q4 is the same as tic-tac-toe and chess?

It's just hyperbole to illustrate a point. Apparently it's not obvious.

False equivalences don't usually make salient points.

It's the other way around, quake 3/live came several years before quake 4's dumb rush-aim based style came and died in 2 years.

So, it's quake 4 that's the short lived retarded parenthesis in the middle of quake 3/live's era.

But we can go further: the proof that Toxic is overrated and most of his success stems from lack of opposition is Quake Champions: Quake champions shifted the balance back to overly aggression and aim. You literally have a character, Slash, that lets you play exactly like in quake 4, along with the weapons balancing.

And indeed Toxic always picks slash and does whatever he was doing the back then, as in, rush around trying to hit everything. Only that now there are Raphas and Cyphers and Killsens and a plethora of other experienced players able to nullify his game and make him look silly and lost.

We could go back to quake 4, right now, and Toxic still wouldn't come back on top.

Quake Champions

Yeah ok, I'm watching that, whatever you say.

No, you can't say Coller's career is a meme. Sure he lacks first place finishes, but he's got one of the most consistent and longest careers.

He's easily top 4 all time. If that's meme-like, then the whole roster is a circus.

And no, you can't swap him for someone else. He's the strongest dueller coming from Russia by far. Who would you swap him for, brainless cheaters like Base or Agent? Come the fuck on.

He's easily top 4 all time.

Of what? Quake? Ridiculous. That's the power of memes. Win a few tournaments in 6 years and ride the memes into greatness for the next 14. What has he really done in QL? Won an online cup here or there? A shitty LAN once again in QL? Never dominated ANY of his games, lucked out to have his strongest game continue for the longest period AND HE STILL NEVER DOMINATED. Fuck, he even dropped off. Apart from that? WHAT? ANYTHING BESIDES DUEL? Anything?!? Besides Q3?!?!?

If you honestly look back at his career it's evident that cooller was most dominant in his memes, not his actual skills. "I'm not your chaoticz", "your lg is nothink". I remember nothing about the actual gameplay from those games. When tox said "it's quiet in the studio" I remember not just the meme, but the fact that it was at 24:4 on a comeback on away turf... in the final.

Unkind, lexer, b100.death, evil, there's like 5 other eastern euros I'm forgetting that were on his level at the time. After Q3 all the newcomers were getting better than him - rapha, cypher, av3k. Again, the one thing he's dominant at is - the memes - no other player could touch him on that.

his successful quake career created the meme(s), not the other way around ;)

Ok, then list your top 4. Let's hear who'd you put above Cooller

You will dismiss it because I am not putting the same weight on q3/ql duel, which had the most longlived lan scene.

I would dismiss it if you made stupid choices like putting Toxic above Cooller, sure. As would anybody else.

Cooller is a better dueler in the game which suits him - q3. And he's worse than tox in all other disciplines than tox in q3 duel. Lucky for the "geniuses" like cooller and rapha that a real fast fps never stuck. But how could it when even the aggro player with the zomg pizzabox tactics ULTRABRAEN failed vs what is clearly the better quaker.

Q1,Q2,Q3,Q4 >> Q3 DUEL

How do you know this? They've played in Q3, QL, Q4, QC. In 3/4 of those, okay, lets put Q3-L as one game, even though there are pretty significant rule changes, and say 2/3 games, cooller has posted better results. We know toxic isn't very good at qw or q2, but that could be just the lack of experience. But considering this, why would toxic automatically be better? I think that's a pretty weird conclusion to jump to and maybe you're just a toxic fanboy because you like his style? Not sure why that means you should pretend that cooller isn't a one of the great Quake duelers.

I know this because through all the fucking years of "oh yeah q3 is so hard, noobs can't even get into it". All these supposed super-duelers never won anything outside of quake. Hell, most of them didn't win anything outside of Q3 - for instance cooller. I know toxjq is clearly better than him because toxjq is the better rounded quake player. Cooller is just a Q3 dueler, one of the greatest, for sure, but not one of the greatest quakers. And let's not forget that you can't even put him into QL with a straight face. For sure he is better than tox in QL duel, but you extrapolate him being better in vq3 duel to be better in EVERYTHING. How do I know tox would be better in qw? Cause I watched him rape every fucking overrated q3 camper in Q4 and that game is not even as fast as QW. And another thing - I've only played it once but I know how OP the QW LG is... But no, "your lg is nothink on the LAN" makes cooller better, not a meme...

edit: or to paraphrase: I know it because you can't win QW duels with 1:0...

Q3 has it's own set of challenges, complexities, interactions, etc... I'm not sure if it's harder/easier than other duel modes, or if it rather just prioritizes different skills -- There are certainly some very aggressive q3 players such as Av3k, cypher, evil, etc... I'm not sure where you've seen this argument about "q3 is so hard," but it's not one I'm making.

I would concede that if we went through both of their resumes that toxic might be the "better rounded player" when taking all the major modes into consideration (duel, ctf, tdm -- is there a place for movement/defrag here as well?) but I think that's pretty contentious. Cooller has a pretty long history in tdm, and neither player are very well known for their ctf skills. If you remember correctly, toxic played flag d. for {wC} at Quakecon 2003 (may have been 2004) and they got run over.

I'm not sure if it's fair to look at cooller's accomplishment and suggest he isn't in the Quake pantheon, he has done a lot, for a really long time. I'm not extrapolating anything here, I'm going by their results.

I'm don't buy your argument that because q4 is faster than q3, and that because toxic is the best q4 plalyer, that it necessarily means toxic would be really good at qw or better than the "q3 campers". Again, toxic got raped by fox in qw, and in turn fox got raped by toxic in q4. This could be as a result of lots of factors and cannot be summed up by the tidy arithmetic you're suggesting.

Well ok, let's take a look at cooller's accomplishments outside of the memes. The only argument for his greatness is his Q3 run, which again was never as dominant as tox's as there was always CZM, Zero4, rapha, av3k or cypher contesting him. Outside of that? No TDM greatness, shit in Q4, fallen off in QL. Tox dominated his game. Dominant in TDM for years as well. Was just OK in QL duel and I don't remember TDM being a thing in QL so pretty consistent at least.

Why wouldn't the hitscan aim or the aggression carry over in QW for tox? What argument is there for these 1:0 winning footballers carrying over in an actually fast game? You can't milk a 1 frag lead for 10 minutes when you have aircontrol, I know you know this, don't be disingenuous. The argument is that if you couldn't do that in Q4 which only has crouch-sliding then it would absolutely get worse for you in QW. The enemy is even less predictable.

No one person dominated q3 because of the size of the community, depth of talent, etc... The fact that cooller was always a contender is really a testament to his ability to learn, adapt, overcome, etc... over decades of competition. In comparison, and without taking anything away form toxic's accomplishments, q4 was a much more fertile ground for one player to dominate.

With respect to tdm, toxic was a critical part all those ic- teams but gopher and fox I think were the engines of those teams. Gopher's demos are filled with momentum shifting, game saving clutch plays which just don't s how up on the scoreboard. As I had alluded to earlier, they were constantly setting the scene for toxic to be successful, which in his defence he able to do, but I think there are a number of players you could fit into the roll, and ic- would've been equally successful. Of course, this is overlooking things like chemistry, personalities, etc.. which all may have played an important role.

I don't doubt that toxic could be a great qw player, I'm pretty sure he'd be really good at any duel game, but that doesn't mean toxic would dominate qw, nor does it mean that cooller wouldn't be able to compete.

No one person dominated q3 because of the size of the community, depth of talent, etc...

Are you telling me the Q4 community WASN'T largely the same as that Q3 community a couple years back? Or are you just confusing Q3 to mean Q3/QL mid-sentence. QL had a deeper community, sure, but not Q3.

Also you both seem to forget here that in Q3 tox was first a TDM player and a dueler second. Vice-versa for cooller. And I know gopher was very good as well, but I remember the 2v2s were played by fox and tox. And let's not forget that tox was always dominant in TDM as well. The only stain on his TDM career is noctis in that QL TDM tourney.

noctis, latrommi, v3rb, kryza, l1nkin, winz and so on...

^^

Quake pros never won anything outside of quake because the talent pool of players outside quake is immense and the top talents in other games completely dwarfs quake's. I mean, a semi-pro CS player was able to beat ALL the quake pros on LAN.

It's funny you use outside success to claim Toxic is the "most complete" quaker, since Toxic is by far the player that had the least success outside of quake, even in aim based games.

For instance, Cooller achieved much more than Toxic in Overwatch, a point-and-click game. Rapha and Cypher too.

Sorry, which game did cooller dominate the way tox did q4? I used outside success only to point out the inadequacy of your meme player. He can only claim greatness in vq3 duel (shared) and his longevity in the QL era as a top player (again never dominant and even fell off). And the memes. Tox has a dominant Q4 duel era, a dominant Q3 TDM era (his main game at the time) and I don't see why you would include OW into anything - cooller has 1 week playtime and tox has 1 day... Might as well compare them in cs.

don't turn into god of war sanchez xD

Again, dominating a dumbed down version of a game against no opposition means nothing

Well I'm glad you agree tox didn't have opposition. And let's see what his non-opposition was during Q4:
Cooller - the supermeme
stermy - the most versatile of them all - your words
av3k - just a nobody too, right?
cypher - who?
rapha - never heard of
dahang - fucking noname again
k1llsen - fucking noob

Are you noticing the pattern yet? It's all the players who wound up being at least on cooller's level in QL duel, which you so dearly love and are biased towards.

Let's mention other notables which you will be compelled to ignore: ztrider, gellehsak, forever, fatal1ty, lost cause, chance, cl0ck, purri, griffin, cha0ticz, socrates, carnage, jibo, rocketboy, fox, winz, fazz, garpy.

The game wasn't dumbed down (vs q3), quite the contrary - it is the only exception in the lineage of id software dumbing down quake. It's exactly why you saw 4:3 games (fat vs tox) and then the same map ended 30:5 when tox was warmed up. Cooller did beat tox in q4, even won a couple of tourneys, but he beat tox closely, tox could (and did) rape cooller. And everyone else. "No opposition".

I can tie Kasparov or Karlsen in tic-tac-toe all day, doesn't make me equal in chess. And just because it's so dumbed down that nobody can win, doesn't mean that it's super competitive, it's just dumbed down.

It's weird, you're usually a very reasonable user, but this time you've gone full retard to defend the undefendable. And for no reason whatsoever! It's not debatable that Toxic sucks at duel, he's all aim no brain! Like, you're dying on a hill trying to argue 1+1 makes 3.

Cypehr, Rapha, and even Avek were fucking babies in the 2 years quake 4 was around. They started winning in those years- and never stopped, unlike Toxic.

Dahang? Dahang isn't a reliable player in any quake game except 2. In fact, his tiltability has become a meme.

What has Stermy's versatily has to do with any of that? Stermy was a good player, but never the top one- even tough in the right day he could beat anyone. His career is remarkable because he won in a lot of other games, he was also one of the best TDM players ever, which should make him an absolute GOD to you. He even went on to cofund Faceit, etc

Just to reiterate:

tox sucks at duel
tox rapes cooller (along with everyone else who later beat cooller in ql :D)
tox is worse than cooller
cooller doesn't suck

Yeah that math looks solid.

Oh and yeah, stermy is a better quaker than cooller, no doubt. Just stop glorifying the bad games... Quake is not just QL duel.

You know, you can't just make points up and pretend that i said that shit, at least not when there is the whole post history just few scrolls above.

Toxic is worse at duel than Colller, this isn't debatable. Except for that brief parenthesis of 2 years, in all the other quake iterations Cooller was consistently the better dueller, and by far, not by little.

I'm sorry, should I upvote you, report you to the admins or look through your post history for ad-hominems? Am I on reddit?

"You're wrong" - > never states any inconsistency, fact or evidence.

Your whole shtick is I should disregard the 2 years where my boy proved just how far off the chart he is. Something NONE of your "top players" ever did. Yeah if I disregard Kimi's championship I'm just as good as he is.

This is literally like putting Schumacher in an F1 and bitching that karts are more tactical/competititve/whateverthefuck when he OBLITERATES any "competition".

COPE

And here you go in circles again, when you have nothing esle to cling to. We've already been there- Toxic's "dominance" was only due because quake 4 was the dumbest quake ever realeased, just rush and aim based due to the tiny hitboxes, and at the same time the absence of what would become the strongest duellers in the history of quake- Cypher and Rapha.

Toxic was never able to compete in any other quake iteration because he simply doesn't have skills outside of point and click.

Bobby Fischer only had 2-3 years where he was absolutely trouncing everyone. Even though his dominance was short, he is still named as one of the greats because of how far ahead of everyone else he was at the time. I think, to this day, no one had the match-level win streak that Fischer had.

And same could be said of Toxjq who not only won tournaments, but rarely dropped maps. And the maps he won were often completely lopsided. He was just on another level compared to everyone else.

He always was on this level. Just like Fischer is the same if he plays tic-tac-toe - you're not as good as him, the game is bad.

Fischer was the best chess player from late '66 to '74, but as you said his era of absolute dominace was significantly shorter, around '71. Still it sufficied to make him one of the greatest of all time.

As far as greatest chess players of all times, domination and winning streaks are concerned, Paul Morphy has to be the clear nr 1

We've already seen why toxic "dominated": quake 4 was the dumbest quake ever realeased, just rush and aim based due to the tiny hitboxes, and at the same time the absence of what would become the strongest duellers in the history of quake- Cypher and Rapha.

His 2 years reign means nothing it that context- and don't try to make improbable chess comparisons. Chess is the same year after year.

Ok, let's take your chess comparison: what happened that make Toxic completely unlearn "duel dominance" after 2007? Did he slam his head? Did his amphetamine abuse fry his brain cells?

Yeah, only on ESR is spawnrape simultaneously removed from QL to keep the noobs happy and at the same time if your favorite meme is on the receiving end, he's not a noob, the game is dumbed down.

keep coping

Quake 4 the superior quake because it allowed spawnraping, lol. Talking about cope

Ok, let's take your chess comparison: what happened that make Toxic completely unlearn "duel dominance" after 2007? Did he slam his head? Did his amphetamine abuse fry his brain cells?

So if Magnus Karlsen can't dominate tic-tac-toe, then it's chess that is the dumbed down game?

So if Conor Mc Gregor knocks Roger Federer out, he's the goat of tennis?

I expected deflection. Did you avoid the comparison of MMA to boxing on purpose or was it subconscious?

Let me let you choose - go with either analogy, chess-ttt OR MMA-boxing. But if you deflect again, don't tell me you're not coping.

And yeah, go on. My POV aligns perfectly with the comparisons - Karlsen can't dominate tic-tac-toe because it's dumbed down to a ridiculous extent. And Connor can't dominate boxing, because it is also dumbed down next to MMA. Now, it's nowhere near the TTT level, but it's still dumbed down. And still, Connor showed great results in boxing, something I don't expect from Floyd in MMA. But you have the tough job here to explain how Floyd is a more complete fighter than Connor. NOT BOXER, fighter. Assuming you don't think Floyd would come out on top of Connor in MMA.

You know what, no - explain to me how a game that washes out the inherent differences between players isn't dumbed down. How is in-game communism not dumbed down?

You made dumb, pointless comparisons- i made one back. And of course you tried to analyze the dumb shit rather than admitting what you can't deny- Tox is dumb as a rock in duel, and only relies on aim. You go even further in claiming that aiming is the ultimate skill, which is just LOL

You assert it's dumb but you offer no counterpoint. You just deflect. I don't think you're unable to make the connections, I think you're afraid to be wrong.

That's why you deflect the apt board comparison with a ridiculous one. Comparing tennis to mma is akin to saying one quake is an FPS and the other - an RTS.

I've (and others) explained a million times why q3/live is the superior quake to quake 4. You just don't listen and reply with random bullshit. Or just flat out say that aim>all.

You're just projecting at this point.

A million times you and others deflect when I force you to answer me how removing skill-based techniques makes something the opposite of dumbed down. I use the analogy with chess-ttt to drive a point of how removing options (pieces, board size and move limits in the case of board games) clearly makes the game dumbed down.

I've never said aim>all. I've said that dumbing down the skill portion does not make the tactical options grow.

And another question you guys love to deflect is, if that is indeed the case, then why stop at where QL is? Why not remove strafejumping too? Cause an honest answer there is obviously "well I just like QL more", which just exposes the circular "logic". So go ahead, deflect.

If you remove strafe jumping QL would become even more aim based. Speed is a way to get around aim.

So it WOULDN'T become more tactical? Great, now explain how it's any different for aircontrol.

First question: It becomes more dull because the player misses possibilities to get around aim. Thus less tactical. A lack of tactics.

Second one: If you add air control the game results in the following. Through the advanced movement technique aiming becomes accentuated to a subset of aiming skills because of air control it is not profitable to aim every situation. For example rail aiming techniques become accentuated to flick rail aiming. Aiming by holding your crosshair to a certain position and then waiting until the opponent flys by is less likely to happen because of air control. Thus accentuated aiming skills. Also it is much harder to hit because in a fight the opponent has more tactical possibilities through air control. Thus the variety of aiming skills is reduced and the ones that are accentuated are harder to be pulled of. So hard that it is a good tactic to use air control to get really close and then pull of really good aim in a reduced aiming skill subset. This tactic of getting really close is a very dominant one which is over shadowing other tactics like hiding against such aggression. The tactical possibilities effectively are becoming less. The tactical possibilities added through air control result in a dominant tactic. Thus removing air control results in the other tactics not being over shadowed which result in more tactics being profitable and it also results in a wider variety of aiming skills which also results in more (aiming) tactics. Thus removing air control effectively results in more tactics even though air control is adding tactical dimensions.

So even though "air control is adding tactical dimensions", removing it "effectively results in more tactics". And your preamble amounts to "I don't like the tactic that is dominant". Well I do, because with aircontrol the dominant tactic is map control, you can convert it to more than 1 frag and still keep your control, thus the scores can go wild if... you're considerably worse than your opponent. How is that a bad thing?

Yeah, tactics only matter if you're sufficiently close to your opponent skill-wise. The greater skill-ceiling in CPM, of course, messes with that. But it's a SHOOTER, why do you want tactics for the sake of tactics? Especially when those tactics will never be that impressive - it's 2 players fighting over 4 items. If I tell you I have a new chess game and it has only 4 pieces, do you think that shit will be the bomb? If starcraft had only 4 units nobody would even call it a strategy. But in quake? Well in quake we're actually playing chess because some people have convinced themselves that those fucking armors they keep taking the whole game might eventually lead to a frag. Hopefully. If the enemy presses the +forward button once.

They are all noobs tbh, I dont see a single name capable of taking a frag in duel.

there were more competition in quake 4, than in quake 3, live, quake champions anyway...

Quake pros never won anything outside of quake

winz?
fatality?

Would you honestly count fat as a quaker though? He didn't stick around when scenes matured a bit.

he wrote two names

Ctrl+f "literally"

...and Stermy, the most versatile of them all. But i was meaning otuside quake like games or shootmania.

when you say "quake like games", do you mean arena shooters?

In that case your assessment is definitely correct.

But then again it's not particularly surprising that Quake Pro's didn't win any Starcraft, Dota or Tetris competitions. So what is left are tactical shooters a.k.a Counter-Strike. No argument that the talent pool of that game is like 10000x bigger so winning is harder.

While this maybe a fascinating subject to discuss, I don't think any of it is suitable for deriving conclusions in the tox vs cooller argument.


In terms of money earned (according to esportsearnings.com) tox outperforms cooller, but I'm not sure if those numbers are 1) accurate 2) representative of overall quake skills.



Long story short:
If you think that tox is not one of the greatest quake players of all times, you are an idiot.
If you think that cooller is not one of the greatest quake players of all times, you are an idiot as well.

I see your argument, but saying Cooller is one of the best is much less retarded than saying so for Toxic. I struggle to think who else deserves a spot above him, by achievements alone.

Cypher and Rapha are the clear top 2, regardless of order. Who's number 3 and 4? Certainly not Toxic. Cooller has a much more solid argument. Moneys earned doesn't matter because it's tied to quake's popularity in a certain time span. With that criteria, Clawz is top 3 quaker all time by moneys earned or something like that.

Not that it matters that much, because outside of the top 2 the ranking isn't that clear.

but saying Cooller is one of the best is much less retarded than saying so for Toxic.

no.
it's the same level of retardation.

Who's number 3 and 4? Certainly not Toxic.

no.
I'm not saying that tox is clearly nr 3 or 4. But if you claim that he is certainly not 3 or 4, you are making a fool out of yourself.

Moneys earned doesn't matter

no.
It may not be the most important metric, but claiming that it doesn't matter at all, is delusional.

Not that it matters that much, because outside of the top 2 the ranking isn't that clear.

yes.
And that's why it is stupid to claim that tox is definitely not in the top 4.

Dude you're just baiting. Explain your points, because all of them are ridicolous. You're just being intentionally vague.

says the guy who claims that "tox sucks at duel"

lol

Yeah, just bait.

Is there a non q3/ql duel player in your top 4?

We're talking about q3 and onward duellers, aren't we not? So the only one i'd consider is Voo, but we don't have enough to judge.

He's easily top 4 all time. -you
Of what? Quake? -me

You never corrected me.

If I stick to your definition best I can give is cooller is top2 in q3. DUEL. QL duel - evil, cypher, rapha, dahang, strenx - all better than him in a more competitive (albeit even more dumbed down game) era. Coincidentally I would never put any of them above toxjq for the same reason - none ever dominated their discipline (well strenx did but online). This is not the fault of the players - they stay mostly the same even when you switch the game, their skills are the same. It is the fault of a dumbed down game that cannot show who is the better player because THAT WAS THE DECISION FROM ID - don't make matchmaking - dumb it down.

So you'd put Toxic above all the excellent, true duelers that you listed... only because he "dominated" for 2 years against nobody in probably the dumbest and least skilled version of quake ever released?

...Ok.

Dominated, not "dominated". Cooller never did any of those.

Again - same competition.

cope

Here again, since you can't deny Toxic is unable to "dominate" in any other quake version- or even just be as good as Cooller- you have to nominate Cooller for no reason. Funny how you never nominate Cypher or Rapha tho lol

Why would I nominate cypher or rapha when they're just slightly better than cooller? They all played toxjq in q4, they all got raped, none of them ever dominated or even "dominated" (you know shit scoreboards but at least the same guy on the top) your tic-tac-toe quake.

Bad trolling. Rapha and Cypher were 16 years old lol.

We have the opportunity to play fast, even CPM fast, right now in quake champions.

And what happened? All the "slow", "dumb" old pros like Cypher, Rapha, and even guys with extremely little quake experience overall like Raisy, picked up Slash's buttscooting and Sorlag and Anarki's cpm movement styles in the span of a few months, and became master of that too.

I was honestly surprised how effortlessy they mastered the movements, i tought for sure they would have stuck with vanilla style champions forever. In reality it came out they always had the skills, they just adapted to the gametpye they were maining in.

We have the opportunity to play fast, even CPM fast, right now in quake champions.

kys

Nice argument

The CPM/Q4 champs in QC don't have equivalent movement, so it's not a solid argument. Not only is the way stairs/step-ups work not there (pretty sure QC doesn't have any actual stairs, just ramps), but Anarki and Sorlag have their speed capped fairly low. They move faster than some champs, but not as fast as the actual CPM movement. And, it certainly hurts me to watch some of these players use Anarki/Sorlag. I wouldn't call them noobs, but they are far from "masters," and they don't really need to be because both CPM champs are weak. If they had actual CPM movement, and not nerfed with the low max stack, or huge hitboxes, they'd definitely be the best champs to use.

Raisy is definitely a master of Clutch movement, though. I am always impressed when I watch how quickly he moves around maps with that champ. Rapha definitely looks like he's mastered Athena's (from the last QC LAN tournament). And Toxjq's Slash/Strogg is probably unmatched. But speed in QC comes at a big price because, in the end, it is balanced with VQ3-speed movement as the default.

I thought I said the same thing...

no.

I have never seen someone getting this stomped on all fronts by multiple people at the same time. Nzro that is. Must be his worst weekend ever.

This ass-whooping has now spread across multiple threads.

you are all noobs here, pathetic

2ez

Tox's mechanical skill in Q4, mainly his raw aim, was completely unmatched. It was unmatched not only in Q4 but in any FPS game and by any player at any time since computer games were a thing. It's one thing for people to have opinions about him by watching streams or demos but anyone that's ever played him in Q4, particularly on LAN, would undoubtedly and immediately agree. He was on another level in that game that has never been seen before and will never be seen again. I would go so far and challenge someone to finding a clip of him losing ANY fight that was evenly matched in hp/armor where both players willingly engaged in against each other (e.g. not an ambush). I'm not sure you could, I was at most of those events and played him half a dozen times and I certainly never saw it.

Thats because you must have never seen Sanchez aim.

More than double of toxjq. Same goes for speed and map control.

Internet discussion are so useless. I am not sure if i ever saw an internet discussion which was not a complete bullshit slaughter feast. Can anybody proof me wrong? I would really like to know and get involved in a place where people engage in a constructive and positive manner. I am so fucking bored of stubborn discussion destroying people which have no real goal in mind other than complete domination. They really need to think that if they win the discussion they get into the league of ruler gods which will get all the woman and all the good stuff, are respected and well known forever. This kind of selfishness is reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally such stupidity. I still really like Quake though for a moment i thought i would depart but as the internet is such a useless place i could als just stay here because where to go else? I just want a little bit of distraction here and there, following some interesting thoughts. Not possible here. It is a feast of dislogic and super hyper angry emotions transfered into text and thrown carelessly to the other side. Such fucking super bullhit boring moron shit.

stfu faggot

:D

you are literally guilty of the same thing lmao and ten times over at that. spamming the site 24/7 with useless trash back in 2018 and 2019 just for the hell of it, and now you want to whine about a heartless thread? get real.

QC dont reward such agressive aim and combat based style unfortunatelly.any one know is it legit to sell game account on playermall? will i get scammed?

this q4 discussion is hilarious. imagine unironically discussing a game that was played at 60fps for most of it's lifespan, with 91 fps towards the very end of 1.4.2. not one tournament was ever played at 120fps, and you guys want to talk about aim? lmao

reflex was the only game that had frame-independent mouse movement, so you can't even make the excuse that it didn't feel bad to aim on. and then to make the special olympics even worse they made the hitboxes smaller, so forcing everyone to play with even shittier accuracies at 91 fps. oh, and this is around the time they started switching to lcds.

i mean don't get me wrong, i actually like crouchsliding. and i like toxjq, you can watch his game and clearly see that he can play. something you can't see in zero4, chance, dkt, sparks, zorakwar, bronson and all of the other na shitters who run their mouths like they are gods and run around while having worse aim than agent. but using q4 an example is like arguing who was better in the special olympics, at the end of the day everyone is still retarded. q4 was being played for the same reason counter strike source was being played during cgs, it was an opportunity for money and nothing more.

It is played at 240hz right now and it is the only quake to have 240hz tickrate server based.

why does this shit suddenly have 170+ replies

For every fanboi action there is an unequal and disproportionate fanboi reaction

If Bruce lee was still alive, he'd kick Chuck Norris' and Mr T's ass simultaneously.

Sanchez kicks down both brucee lee and chuck norris

Another good conversation thread gone to shit cause of Sanchez and his multiple personality disorder.

God is God

everyone with half a brain ranks Toxic appropriately

It's funny how people without any skill level discuss toxjq and "duel skills".

I don't think QC has a duel mode to even discuss any "pseudo duels" played in it.

When you have 1v1 FFA mode without an ability to overstack, without any 3d positional sound, played on outdated 4v4 tdm maps, with lots of corners.

Ofc its better than it was in round duels..... but it is still not a quake game not a quake duel, it is a shame for everyone who plays it.