This is probably what you're looking for:

http://ws.q3df.org/readme/nodm9.txt

Pro maps like this evolved for one simple reason, the players got so good at the game they exposed flaws in the original designs.

The holes in the floor just add more gameplay variables, also it probably has a lot to do with early versions of quake 3 having floor damage enabled which was turned off over time.

The area down by the megahealth was always really cramped in DM13 ( and had weird hit boxes which felt bad) so opening it up a bit just made the map flow and play better.

Swelt was also pro mode player so those guys always prefer faster gameplay.

You cant expect all level designs made in the late 90's to work for pro players 10+ years on. From time to time, they benefit from a refresh.

Pro-Tourney2
Pro-DM6
Pro-T4 etc.

DM13 used to be the lowest scoring map, you could litreally get 1 up in this game and hold it because it could be so difficult to break control due to its linear design, run away potential and choke points on the map.

That made for boring spec videos, but some players like that because it required a lot of talent and innovation to break control vs a similar skilled opponent (which makes Socrates comeback even more spectacular).

These days pro FPS players are much closer to "as god as humanly possible" than what they were 20 years ago so its much easier to design maps which stand the test of time.

All in all I quake III was and still is an exceptionally good game.

Tourney2 got a refresh?

Isn't that the map where you first get the lightning gun in Quake 3? I've heard that that map got played in duels some in the very early days; when did it get remade and what was done to make that a fun map? Seems a terrible map to duel on.

Thanks for the info.

Far as I recall the pro maps got done in the early 2000's by Christian Ankow at idsoftware.

Tourney 2 or Pro never made it past the early days of Quake III as it wasn't that suitable, but it was kinda fun looking back.

The best come back in quake history (IMO) was made on that map though by Socrates vs fatality.



See pro t2 changes here.
Added railgun for a start. It never really took off though like pro t4, dm6 etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdZ-3H49X2o

Ah, of course Clau has a video up featuring the map.

Many thanks.

Some of the most exciting Q3 matches in almost a decade of tournament history were on Q3tourney2. It never needed a refresh - it it never failed to be a good test for a player's skill or provide entertaining matches.
But I do understand why it was changed - because despite the map possibly appearing simple to a beginner, it really wasn't, and a lot of players underestimated it and never learned to play it well.

Q3tourney4 was a similar story. Tournament organizers began to disable Thrufloors, which obviously led to games being one-sided, because the player on the top area became virtually untouchable.
The ignorance of the admins / organizers had to be compensated by creating another version of the map with rail on the bottom of the map and a teleporter to the top. All in all I really didn't get the impression though that Pro-T4 produced better games than the original T4 with Thrufloors. It was just different.

Pro-Q3dm13 was garbage, no discussion needed. And Pro-Q3dm6 was great, also no discussion needed.

i always thought the original t4 with the mega and red played kinda funny, but with the changes they made with the yellows was a lot better,

i kinda need to see a demo/vod of pre-prot4 to see how it played out. im guessing with rail being inside where rocket room, they made it to where you would play top control of rail im guessing.

On the original T4, the initial battle would be mostly for RA, as often both players would spawn on equal sides of the top floor. One would arrive with the starting machinegun, the other with SSG. Once that battle was over, Mega and RG and RL would be taken by the winner, and he could establish top control.
Sometimes the first spawns would be crappy though and one player would get everything. If they needed to fix something, then that.

From then on one player would control the top floor. Without damage thru floors, that would be easy, since you had everything, including rail, while the other player had nothing. With thrufloors, top control could be properly challenged, because the RL and even PG did damage through the top floor of the map.

Sadly, thrufloors was considered as a bug by most involved with Quake, and removed. Again, probably mostly because players didn't know how to use it well, or simply didn't want to. I do admit it's a kind of ridiculous concept, but if you played back then you know it made for some great competitive games.

Here's a somewhat decent Q3t4 game with thrufloors enabled that I managed to find: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5EmlXKkBms

Pro-T4 is fine, but far from perfect. Armor available on the map is too little / weak, and strong weapons too easily available, to allow for strong control by one player. Gameplay and scores tend to go towards being FFA-like.

there was mega on T4?

Yes, where the second, lower YA is on Pt4. And the RA used to be where the Mega is on Pt4.

Exactly, T4 was designed to be played with damage through floors and once this was removed (PR 1.25?) the gameplay was broken. The changes allowed the map to be played for many more years but still didn't make as much sense as the original version.

Just above you you have the description of the map readme linked:

Description : 2 Quake III Arena levels based on Q3DM13

~~ OPTIMISED FOR CHALLENGE PROMODE ~~

Pro maps like this evolved for one simple reason, the players got so good at the game they exposed flaws in the original designs.

It took you a long time, but I'm glad you finally see that CPM is, indeed, superior. Takes a big man to admit being wrong.

I only started watching Quake three or so years ago.

So which game is it, Quake3 or something else??

Cpl switched to cpma mod from osp so they used the cpm version.