The solution is simple. You create every competition winning map and from then on, people will copy this style and everything will be fine.

Rofl I knew Diabotical sucks. But this is just ridiculously stupid... Should make the map editor a paid option, like $300 and the real enthusiast map editors will pay for it. And maybe we might get better maps...

100% disagree. The easier you make it to map, the more mappers and maps you get. Yes, it's true that 99% of them are dogshit. But you've increased the size of the pie and you end up with more quality maps and mappers in the end.

I also cannot stress enough how important it is to have active mappers. If you've got people making maps, who then get adequate feedback, they tend to improve over time. Therefore, more active mappers leads you to more and better maps over time.

YouRetard

I've played only a little bit of duel in DBT, but I agree with the strangely bad maps that were in season 1's duel map pool. Frontier and Bioplant both stand out as uniquely ill-suited for duel. They're too big, and too complex leading them to feel like an incoherent maze compared to classic maps from other AFPS games where the design/layout is more concise and coherent. My guess is that the mappers just kept packing in ideas and geometry, and didn't know when to leave well enough alone.

On top of that, I find it interesting that after being in development for so long they did not have a much stronger pool of maps. I'm not just talking about all the way back to the Reborn days (although I think that's also fair to include since, presumably, they had map layouts then, too), the Kickstarter campaign was in 2016, and the game eventually launched in 2020. At least four years of development and testing, with multiple people involved (and several competent duelers, mappers involved during this time), and these are the official duel maps at launch? What the fuck happened?

I actually think Bioplant plays pretty well. At least the iteration we have now. It was too... weird when the game went into closed beta. Frontier on the other hand is just bullshit. Half the map is made up of stairs which have horrible hit detection and then in the middle that connects RA, MH, and rail, you have sloped terrain that ALSO affects hit detection as well as fucks up your movement. Frontier can fuck off.

I feel like Skybreak and Perilous are good maps, Kasbah seems too big and defensive for me. I'm hoping some of the new maps can make for some good games, but so far I am NOT liking Amberfall.

In general I think people want to make THE map of Diabotical and it can't contain all their ideas. They are mostly pretty hard to learn and figure out.

promEUs, who's the in-house mapmaker, is great at making beautiful maps, but I don't feel they're the best layout wise.

In general I think people want to make THE map of Diabotical and it can't contain all their ideas. They are mostly pretty hard to learn and figure out.

Yea, agreed.

My view is that making a good duel map is still a bit of luck, not a science. There are some basic elements like how wide/tall corridors should be (related to splash radiuses for RL/GL, hit radius for plasma, etc.), how open atriums can be (related to projectile speeds, LG range, player speed, etc.), spawn/item placements to allow room for decision making, etc., which are related to core gameplay mechanics. In that regard, there are some basic conventions that maps should follow.

But beyond that, it takes time for meta strategies to develop and be widely understood for each map. Someone may understand a map's layout completely, but not the relationship between items/spawns and various situations. That stuff only comes with experience playing through the various possibilities a huge number of times. And that's when you start to see whether a map is worth its salt or not.

Bioplant is alright, the spawns are just fucky I should say. and by that I mean, if you kill someone by Mega room, that guy might spawn at lg and gets himself a free red for being punished by you.

It's the completely fucked up spawn system more than the map itself that makes people hate Bioplant

Doom release date is 1993, you don't need to make it older

Initially I thought making maps would be easy with the map editor abilities presented by 2gd.
I tried it and what can I say...its still fucking hard. For people who are experienced in this kind of stuff or like to grind it out. You need to use help websites, learn all kinds of key shortcuts not explained in the editor and so on.

PEE PEE POO POO!!!

I just realized again dogshitical is unwatchable. I saw rapha on twitch playing it, so I quickly jumped in to watch. I mean it's rapha, at least it's a cool skillshow.... but 15 secs later I found myself on another tab reading some news post. Dunno for sure, but I think the hyper-underwhelming bouncing spheres from 1980 and other parts of it's visual nothingness play a big role.... but It's just fkn unwatchable.

quake esports is only dying because people cannot keep up with the competition.

if you sent 50,000 fortnite kids to play chess from scratch, the best of them would fail to go IM\GM within the first 2 years. the competition is lightyears ahead of them. trying to master a game that has existed longer than you will dump you into a sea of losers.

and so why do arena shooter games fail so fast? well it is that simple, these games are too old and overplayed. noobs are typically worse than bots on 'i can win'. so when they are met with learning even the most fundamental skillsets they get overwhelmed. skill is subjective, a local lan player in your town back in the 1990's who thought they were good at Quake would get humiliated by the average online player now days. a good quake player today is lightyears behind the best quake players 5-10 years ago. The other reason why Quake 1v1 is hard to learn is because it is mostly theoretical in how it is played. That is why people are typically stuck at the fundamental level, and never fully develop a playstyle. It is simply all theoretical in how you play and win on modern Quake games.

when a game's entire function of existence is skill based, and meta is too closed and gatekeeped, the incentive to play requires millions of dollars or nothing at all. counter strike at least offered ways to piss the time away for people who gave up trying to go pro. the only people still playing Quake Live are the CA clowns.

so when it comes down to it, quake spinoffs are simply the last thing anyone would ever play if they expect to compete in just a few years. QC SR does not translate to QL glicko, and QL glicko does not translate to QW experience. ID Software simply understood that Quake was too complex for beginners, so they kept dumbing it down. i can understand a 16 year old playing quake in 1996 and wanting to continue because the game was still new. but a 16 year old playing quake in 2021 just results in wasted time.

even the people who have played for 10+ years and at a semi-pro level are struggling to play catch up with people who've played 20 years.

basically this,

I've seen quite a few new players who've impressed me in Diabotical - but when asked about their history they've all come from different arena fps games from the past

it's not too hard to play it just has no playerbase, and it has no playerbase because the 1v1 focus of the game detracts from the appeal. most people do not want to play 1v1 games, they want to play team games. quake has had no functioning team mode that can be played both casually and competitively, it's always one or the other. you have tdm/ctf where people are forced to do 25/35 in their head just to be able to play the mode with resources. and that's if the 30 yr old neckbeard doesn't hoard all of the items for himself and then says "ah these fucking retards don't do anything". and on the other hand there's ca, which is just round by round ruleset with no attack and defend roles and no objective other than to kill. boring as fuck, which is why you see those all weapons ffa servers popping up in ql and people installing qc to play unholy trinity instead.

even quake champions suffered from this. what was the point of marketing the game with different characters and abilities and sacrifice if it's just going to be played with the same resource management? did they really think the average 15 year old would want to time armors, megahealth, quad/battlesuit? would want to share weapon pickups with each other?

all that really ended up happening was that the people who tried out quake champions during the humble bundle keys era, realized they were better off playing other games if they wanted something fun or casual, or overwatch, csgo, and r6s if they wanted something competitive. overwatch especially because it actually functions as a class based shooter and has a higher skill ceiling and a larger playerbase.

I remember in the early preview vods 2gd did (around 2014ish maybe) they were saying how they want to discuss different ideas they have for the movement and other mechanics....so my issue is wtf did they actually do with the movement, it's literally like any other quake clone movement nothing we haven't seen before?....

You can't have anything else.
People would flip their shit.

time for:
DIABOTICAL IS DEAD PT.6

That which was never really alive cant die.

Nice list
https://www.reddit.com/r/Diabotical/comments/...ng/gkzjkbo

the bot pov is dwarf size also so it evens out