there was a recession in 2008 and the pace of online gaming slowed down a lot. especially for fps games. counter strike endured during the recession, it had the highest concurrent playerbase year round of all fps games, and that's while it was split between 1.6, cz, and source (the stream numbers for iem cs 1.6 tournaments were also very high, it was competing with sc2 and lol which were more popular newer games) and more importantly, it's a better team game. i'll copypaste my last reply since it explains things more.

1. most people don't like high time to kill + fast movement
2. most people don't like resource management
3. no good team modes (1 player on each team hoard everything and the rest are naked)
4. north america is still a large continent so it will always be a basket case as far as ping goes. most online games privilege the east coast and chicago area at the expense of other regions, and since quake is a game of tracking you can expect to have east coast and chicago players having better dps as usual. most people from other regions will be discouraged and quit. canadians can't play texas either.
5. the artstyle is lame. turns out having this mix of gothic architecture and scifi technology theme with metal surfaces and portals doesn't hold up anymore. people want color, brightness, more varied themes on maps than what quake offers in its mp games.
6. the aftermath of the 2008 recession already was the best opportunity to release a new game, and they wasted it on quake live. there is a new recession coming soon and there will be a demand for new games as a lot of players won't be satisfied with only battle royales + valorant + csgo forever, but i don't see why it would be quake that makes a comeback.
7. how long are singleplayer fans expected to wait seeing as quake 4 was just a doom3 clone which was a walking simulator.

to me, there is a much bigger issue than quake not being popular, which is that i feel the pace of new releases of fps games is too slow. when modding was removed, it was bad, but people assumed that after the recession ended, there would be more fps games and more companies that want to eat each other's lunch. but actually, we're seeing the opposite. we're seeing a few companies be continually rewarded for mediocrity. when call of duty is having 3 bad titles in a row, no one is challenging them because battlefield sucks even more. no one was quitting overwatch because there was no alternative class based shooter that captured the same excitement they got when it was fun. no one was quitting brs when they started sucking from bad patches because the multiplayer games were left wanting. there's more game engines than ever. there's more developers than ever. games don't even need server binaries, or demo systems, or mapping and modding tools anymore. and most games only need a few gametypes at best. so why did it slow to a crawl, even before covid and the 2022 recession hit?

there are some exceptions, like when sg553 was overpowered for too long and riot announced valorant so that people who were done with csgo could play it. but mostly, were seeing that there's very little competition, and whichever team that has the most money gets to just vomit something on the mass, and then they lean into it because there's nothing else.

Why? Why????

WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I doubt it would ever happen unfortunately - but id have proven that they can successfully remaster their older titles, just look at Doom/Doom Eternal.

I think for a modern audience, they'd have to put in some additional gimmicks into the quake formula (like they tried with Quake Champions) - but they could hypothetically have a 'classic' mode, which is the Quake 3/Quake Live balance that seems to have been most popular overall in the competitive quake scene.

An idtech 6 quake game, running nice and smooth at 4k/144Hz on vulkan - that'd be something.

I think if done correctly, there could be an audience for it - when Quake Live was officially released out of beta, you couldn't log in due to the demand/interest being massive for the first few days, then it all died down - there was definitely significant interest back then at least.

We'll likely never know!

I just KNOW they are going to release a Quake remake which is going to suck because Quake 1 was pretty boring. Q3 had a great variety of aesthetics (hi tech, industrial, futuristic, dungeons). Every map felt different. Quake 1 was always that brownish dungeon stuff, only variation was the blue tone on EP4. Q3 was the best aesthetically, a good balance of fast gameplay without insane speed, even the sounds were pleasant to listen to compared to QW.

>id
>learn

but that aside your expectations are just unrealistic

and what's with the obsession with ragdolls lmao

Eh because the models look retarded without physics for 2023 standards.

you dont need a q3 update, just play defrag

OneHand

CS 24 hour peaks:

CS:GO: 1,332,202

Counter-Strike: 14,616

Counter-Strike: Source: 5,267

Counter-Strike: Condition Zero: 552

Quake:

Quake Champions: 387.4

Quake Live: 246.9

Quake: 76.7

Quake III Arena:23.4

Quake II: 19.2

Quake II RTX: 14.9

Quake 4: 14.3

Quake III: Team Arena: 2.9

There's no money to make here.

So 14 people are still playing Q4 as of now and I'd surely bet they haven't tried militia.

/thread

Yeah, even with an HD remake, nobody would play Quake 3. Not even Esreality, we would just complain about missing features and not being able to have lego graphics.

I would shit on it without waiting for the release at this point, I've learned from my mistakes.

Always shit ahead of time!

Why are some people in here so obsessed with ragdoll physics?

Maybe because they were the big deal in 2008?!

Quake champions already has ragdoll physics. They suck, they look ridicolous.

They look worse than quake live pre-animated deaths, because those have their own defined style and are coherent unlike QC's messy rubbery chicken ragdoll crap.

And they surely helped QC's cause, didn't they?

Even Q3 with better graphics wouldn't ressurrect the genre.

Most people don't like arena shooters, that much should be clear by now.

And if you want quake live with better graphics, you can do it.

You can upscale existing textures with AI graphic tools.

Add the few new decent maps from quake champions like Awoken. And the new camgrounds with the added teleporter is better, throw that in as well.

Put it all in one easy to install and play package.

That's as good as it's ever gonna be for quake.

Im not talking about the death animation itself but how the corpses hang flying in ledges which is just not tolerable by 2023 standards. Keep the animation if that's a problem and after the animation enable ragdolls so the corpses fall down the stairs and so on which is cool vs flying 100% horizontal down the stairs which makes the game look dumb by 2023 standards.

Everything is cyclic and Q3 will come back one day when tards realize it's the best.

How often does it happen that a corpse lays down exactly on an edge and part of its body hangs outside? I know exactly what you're talking about and it's an incredibly niche scenario that nobody ever gave a fuck about.

You think THAT is what's holding quake from the masses, and that's EXACTLY how we got quake champions.

And again, your glorious ragdoll physics quake champion isn't doing too good, is it? That should be literally impossible, i mean, the corpses bounces around like rubber chickens and shakes like they have convulsions as the physics engine spazzes out, that's what the masses care about, right?

Then how come it died faster than the previous titles? It's a mistery.

Dude everytime you kill someone on stairs the model looks wonky. dm6's has a long ass stair to RA for instance.

Dude nobody gives a fuck

Whenever some zoomer played the game they noticed this since this never happens in modern games. It looks dumb irrespective of the amount of people caring about this.

Bitch Minecraft is the most played and successfull game ever in the history of videogames, beloved by zoomers, and literally has simpler and more arcade death animations than quake 3.

You can pretend it's a deal breaker and the sole reason people aren't playing quake, but quake champions literally proves you wrong again.

It's only important to you because it was the future in the mid '00s and you're stuck in the past.

Wrong, Minecraft has a retro 8-bit look on purpose, while Quake 3 is supposed to be an adult looking game. Carmack would have added ragdolls physics if he managed a way to make it viable with 1999's hardware.

Quake 3 is objectively the best competitive FPS ever. Claiming one is "stuck in the past" is not an argument. I played QW and Q2, Unreal, Unreal 2k3... none of these have the complete package Q3 delivered. It is a fact.

The first thing Microsoft should do after aquiring bethesda is to start from scratch with the whole studio. Literally ditch everything there is now and start from a blank sheet of paper with new people, new ideas, new skills and new approach to game dev in general. id software can't be saved in current state. And never again team up with saber interactive under any circumstances if they want to succeed.

YES! Update QL/Q3 and do a browser game again it was so much more enjoyable

It's crazy how AoE2's has grown with the HD releases. I'm not saying the same would happen to Quake.

ID did a very very bad job in keeping quake alive ...
they gave it the step child treatment and players sented that ...
quake 4 had also technical issues with multiplayer just as an after thought ... quake live was just a remake of an outdated game, older than quake 4 that was released years before, imagine having cs go right now and Valve would decide now to make a browser game of cs 1.6 with that same outdated engine ... would go wow, wow, greatest thing ever?! ... And quake 3 itself also wasn't so great, it was just an engine with some multiplayer added, just look at these badly designed maps, basically only carmack did a solid job, the rest of the team just chilled ... I am sorry if Q3A was your first game and you think it is the 'best' quake, it is solid, but not great ... and with those maps and this immobile movement, it's really downgraded version of quake, comparable to a high resolution mosaique of the mona lisa (i.e. Quake 1/Quake 2 multiplayer), a mosaique of the mona lisa is nice, but it's not comparable to the real mona lisa ... and then they did nothing after quake live, they let quake sleep for 8 years ... just look for instance at online chess, look at the opportunities chess.com undertook, online tournaments, twitch streamers events, events for casual players, there is no other company around in chess that would have done that, and that brought a lot of additional streamers also on the scene, a lot of people tried out ches ... in fact chess would have gotten a massive hit, if chess.com didn't take the opportunity and make it big online ... it would be a desert right now ... and this is a good example there need to be people around that *CARE* for their game and want to make something great ... and ID is not that ... it always gave Quake the stepchild treatment, even outsourcing quake ... and with Quake Champions, although they see the engine sucks ass, see it is a mediocre effort from sabre, they don't do a single thing to improve something there ... and they feel great about themselves to release a massively subpar wolfenstein game, which has not even a thrid of the legacy that quake has ... also from technical viewpoint, from the impact viewpoint ... quake is 5x greater than doom ... doom is just the popular game, because it was the first big fps shooter ... but the modding, the machinima, the demos, all the sites in the internet, all the events, all the clans, that was all quake, it is called quakecon for a reason! ... and doom absolutely brings nothing on the table there, except maybe EGA items vs 4K items ... and the current design lead boss of ID, he plays Doom with a gamepad, he knows nothing of Quake and he is not even a real gamer, these are people get into their jobs through connections and charisma, but not through skill and gaming culture, and if you look at it like that, you see why the build on Doom and Wolfenstein, they provide a bigger story on a superficial basis, these are low IQ executives that don't know a single thing about the legacy of quake, and its impact ...ID is a big company already for a long time, the suits and the impostors, the tim wallets of our time, took over

Disagreed. Q3 somehow felt eSportish while still feeling like a mix of Q1 and Q2 aesthetics just better. It also had a balance between too fast (QW) and too slow (CS). It felt like gladiators from the year 3000. And no it wasn't my first game. I grew up with the classics (Doom and DN3D) and then I got Q1, but I started MP with Q2. Q3 was just better. I remember shoting rails in the air and seeing the blood splats midair on DM17 and I was hocked from there.. Good times.

I give you that, the aesthetics were better, and they added jumppads and it was more beginnerfriendly … but they took away too much from the movement and added these oversimplistic maps … so they massively reduced the fun in the ‚endgame‘ after you mastered the basics of the game … I am not saying its bad, it just not as good as the predecessors, and I think already there id misplayed their hand … they got more ‚succcess‘ because it was an era where many people got fast internet and because of the legacy that was already build … just look at the nolan batman films, he literally made batman great again … and this joker film now I think made more money … but is joker better than the nolan films? No .. but the joker film was successful due to the legacy build by nolan … and it was a good film for the zeitgeist, people are a bit saturated from cgi fireworks … and money aside was joker a good film for the legacy of batman … look at the latest two installments of batman … good critics, good earnings, all due to nolan before … but I guarantee you now they changed the perception of batman, they deteriosted batman and they won‘t manage to get these box office hits … because they just dont have the craftmanship or the soul and cannot create anything but shallow copies

look at the Joker 2 film ... they finally destroyed all the substance of the batman brand, there was no succesful film that joker 2 could leech on and the film itself was another shit show ... they finally got what they deserve ... they destroyed everything nolan has built up, it took a while, but we finally got there ... past perceptions are gone, reality has set in

Quake was big, and yes, it is a legendary point in gaming history about multiplayer and e-Sports, is really a shame many people and gaming news websites just say "CS invented the e-Sports" where Quake was the first stone to be put on the floor, thanks to QuakeWorld netcode and the ClanRing creation.

But Doom, i think both games have their ground, but Doom is big, really big in terms of people orbiting around the franchisee.

Doom practically start the "modding" scene in FPS games, it have a lot of source ports, it can be played on anything and there's like a tons of mods and new levels, even everyday a new level is submit on idgames which is one of the oldest yet still existing and living places to talk about Doom and ID (that includes DoomWorld)

The only segment where Doom is "dead" is multiplayer, Zdaemon, Zandronum or Odamex have like 10 people playing everyday, a very low players count, where in the golden days where like 10 or 20 servers crowded with people, playing ctf, coop or ffa.

Doom practically start the "modding" scene in FPS games

Omegalul, DUDE. get your facts straight!!!!!!!!!!
Doom Modding only started after these source ports were released, way after Quake!!!!

Beforehand you maybe had these WAD's with some shitty levels and some textures or sounds exchanged, but that's not the same ... and the quality of doom mods ... it's just for the most part very basic level design, there are some nicer maps here and there, but they are rare, not comparable in the slightest to what is getting released for Q1!

The point is still valid =)
Check this
https://doomwiki.org/wiki/CROSS.WAD

Well, early years of modding where terrible anyways, no tools at all or were basic fanmade or primitive, like DCK which was a commercial Doom editor in 1995 or Wintex for texture editing ... in 95' too!

Quake was better, because it was mod focused since day one with the release of QuakeC and editing tools like Hammer/Worldcraft

And in the early days of Q1 were also very terrible maps, just check Q!Zone from Wizardworks to get an idea.

Um, not really ...
I still remember these mods, all released 1 year after quake 1

soldier of fortune:
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/sofsp1.html
mexx:
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/mexx.html
zerstoerer:
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/zer.html
also in the early days:
quake rallye:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/quake-rally
team fortress (already created in 1996):
https://www.moddb.com/mods/team-fortress


and if you look now at modern mods in quake 1 and map packs, the design is just on a different level than anything in doom ...
what doom has though, is these mass monster fights with 100s of monsters at the same time, but that is not really my taste, a bit of a particular thing ... but if you look at interesting gameplay and atmosphere and beautiful geometry it is quake all the way

We are talking what was first and not what is quality or not.

I just said "Quake 1 early MAPs were terrible" and that is true, because you will have some experience on the editor to make something good, Q!Zone and many others recompilations can give you an idea.

And yes, Quake was the cesspool of many FPS, and thanks to the modding tools that were available at day one, many of these mods exists.
We just can't compare the mod scene of Quake to Doom, because the modding tools were not there, thinks like a programing language or a official level design tool were not available for Doom, at least for a year or two.

Doom had to wait years to have a programing script for creating new monsters or action into levels.

So it's not fair to compare.

But we are talking about what was first and there, Doom was the first stone to put on the floor in modding scene.



"what doom has though, is these mass monster fights with 100s of monsters at the same time"
I disagree
https://www.doomworld.com/cacowards/

I know cacoawards, for the most part, for very rare exceptions doom maps just are not on par with Quake Maps

Know what, I am doing you a favor ... there is one map in Doom with pleasing aesthetics, it's called Putrefier (also received a cacodemon award), now try hard name one map that is on par with these quake maps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5F2BL1Hyjo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pevTGzPbNQs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpTfgODVMHw

Good luck ... :-)

q3 hd in 2023 lmao

i don't think Quake have any hope or possibility to be big like in the early days, iD doesn't care anymore, Quake Champions was a flop and a bug fest, and that's it, no more quake for us, just a remaster of Q1, that i will guess nobody plays today.

People don't wanna taste or go back into "arena shooters" because of time investment and understanding of item placement, and even today the most played game mode in Quake Live is Clan Arena, which is a item-less mode.

The only way Quake MAYBE be successful is CS2 to be a flop or players just get tired of slow movement tactical shooters like cs, valorant or rainbow six.

People don't wanna taste or go back into "arena shooters" because of time investment and understanding of item placement...

The knowledge curve of competitive AFPS is not really comparable to much more popular games like dota/league. So I don't think that's quite it.

AFPS games are all mostly bound by* some sort of sophisticated movement mechanics, and until you can perform those mechanics, which are generally both invisible (i.e. to a noob strafe-jumping just looks like regular jumping) and poorly explained, you can't really start to play the game. In fact, you can only actually play Quake once you can actually "see" the movement.

Yeah, they are different for obvious reasons, MOBA games maybe have a more pronounce knowledge curve, but on how you spent your points, what items to buy, what's the best build for this character or how to fulfill a specific role, what's the best champion/character to choose. pure information.

Because moving a character that is slow against other players who are also slow is easy, is all about where to pick, attack and farm.

That's why those games are popular, you don't need to have a killer reflex or invest a lot of time on how proper movement mechanics work just to be killed in every match you join, because you are too green to know the maps, where to go, etc.

As you say, you can't really play Quake if you don't see or feel how movement mechanics work.

The longer you ponder about all of this the more evident it becomes: Quake is for a small elite of chosen ones. Only the chosen ones go beyond what is in the screen and manage to properly stratejump, move around the map, time items, and develop a sense of gameplay. It will never be mainstream, for that very reason.

there is effectively no way to make high time to kill + fast movement game popular. if you've ever seen people streaming themselves play games similar to quake or ut, they actually actively get frustrated because they don't like having to spend 3 seconds to get a kill.

nowadays, players are not on board with having to put out so much dps on players that can make you miss. but then the problem is that if you lower the time to kill, suddenly all of the weapons become too powerful, because quake has no recoil or movement inaccuracy so if you decrease the time to kill, then the game becomes skillless because what limits the effectiveness of every gun is how much damage you have to do.

what they should do is figure out how to make a brand new game, one which shares nothing with doom or quake in anyway, but reflects what is popular with genz today, or just accept that they have no answer for mp and just make a single player. people will play any single player game as long as it's not a pure cashgrab.

CS2 to be a flop? How is that supposed to happen?!?

CS2 is LITERALLY simply a better graphics overlay for CSGO. It's the same game, it's an update for CSGO.

They call it CS2 for marketing reasons same way there are like 3 or 4 call of duty modern warfares.

It's nothing else. Unless you think people are gonna mass quit because now smokes behave a tiny little differently.

But even if you think having slightly higher res textures will drive people away instead of actually making CS more successful than ever, and it will, how do you even conjure that THAT will drive people to quake, of all games?

Fucking lol, they'd rather play call of duty 15 than quake.

CS2 would flop because no ragdoll physics

This guy explains it all, on how arena shooters just die.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yiRVxLj2MU&t=1s



















Joke video is shit lol

Mind elaborating what's so shit about it?

I think the video explains the decline in popularity quite well.

I don't think i need to elaborate when the video titles "Rise and Fall of Arena Shooters" and in segment he talks about Metal Gear Solid or console fps like Goldeneye, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AFFOPyHuUo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_zSZS-84HM

:)

Video really is shit, and that youtuber a superficial moron. One of those quantity over quality spammers. But all it takes today is some sharp editing, some enthusiatic exposition, some gaming of the algorythm and you'll have legions of drooling idiots upvoting and following.

yeah, there is so much false information in this video that it should be taken down, unbelievable what kind of shit is getting published there from some unskilled wannabes ... and this guy is even getting thumbs up for this, because his audience doesnt know better ... shub niggurath shall rise from the ground and devour this guy

Updated Q3/QL on Browser lets go! I miss those days so much

I'd say it really starts with improving the SP, to somewhat match whatever MP experience one might get. If we're talking the single player experience with new GFX, try out Q3 Berserker mod, very beautiful with nice new raytracing and bump mapping (a little like QC) but stays within the Q3 Universe. If we're talking about multiplayer, we're at the point where the only people even remotely willing to play Quake anymore are just good at the game. It's hard to find people who will happily get smacked around and still play.

There is no hope for them unless there is a clear and concise way to help them play the game better. At one point, Pro Quake players and commentators tried providing a more hands on approach to teaching the game, 2GD, Fraze etc were putting out decent videos. There was also DDK, who did make some decent enough videos, but most of these videos taught concepts that might be hard to reproduce (based on who you're playing against). So I can only imagine ONE way to possibly make a new Quake game, it requires very good training bots, it probably requires extensive training tools to teach and master aspects of the game. Think something like CGaz, but this kind of stuff needs to be done for a broad assortment of things. If done right, you'd see a legitimate entry door for people to start Quaking, this is certain. It would only mean closing the gap between MP and SP so people aren't intimidated to play both.

Most noobs just play offline these days, even in QC they play bots. So having a very strong skill range for bots could give noobs a little bit of leeway into multiplayer. This can even mean better bots for duel, and hopefully better bots for team based modes. Bots that can announce item timings or where they see players, where it might be safer to move to (for the player). If the bots themselves can actually assist in helping a noob learn maps and play as a team, it could also be used as training wheels to get a noob into the correct frame of mind when playing.

Even a few simple things like a weapon flash, or icon with the bound key to let a beginner know what weapon to use in general.

But every single release of Quake has been bare bones for noobs, which is precisely why they give up on it. It has become a non-option to make another game like this, making the game simpler, or trying to market the game enough to expand the player pool and skill chart has become less possible after QC failed. It also didn't work that well in QL, I remember Tier 3 players being easy one day, and then being regrettable the next. So even with SBMM we're talking about a skewed player count bottleneck right off the bat with any future release.

I also like the premise of better bots because it can potentially save areas of the game that are neglected, and it could catch peoples attention. Jailbreak, Freezetag, CTF, KOTH... shit that people nearly forgot about, now playable offline. That would be pretty sick. Think games like UT2004, that had an amazing experience for noobs. It's very memorable. It typically has at least for me, always been a SP first then MP learning curve in video games. At least before I actually got enough experience and hours into something like QL. But brute forcing MP is why virtually every single Quake spin off completely dies out.

The more I think about it, I feel like we as humans need to eradicate copyright laws or lessen them. We're at a time in human history where we have so many talented passionate game designers at home, that we could easily remake games the way they should of been made. Like I know people who have backwards engineered QL's code and if they wanted to, release a community version of quake live that could be updated to today's standards but you know, doing such a thing would just get you sued.

Id released the source code for q3, you just need to replace all the models and sounds if you want to release the new game officially, noone would sue you.
Q3 with a new renderer would be better then any other new quake they released and will release in the future..

Ok, booma

It's called Quake 3 and you can release whatever original work you want.

I think it's worth mentioning that the talent and engineering resources you would need to complete such a project simply don't exist in the Quake community. I'm not sure who is working on QW but in Q3 there are only a small few active projects left (q3e, cnq3, cpma, probably some others). Who would execute the programming, modelling, texture work, UI work, animations, sound design, gameplay design, testing, etc?

It's not about code or assets protected by copyright.
Think of it as a duel game - even if you get best weapons and a good stack, a better tier player will beat you using strategy and positioning.

Making a new version of Q3 will only give you weapons and stack, but not the skill to make it great. You will be too dumb and socially inept to position and market the game in such a way that people will want to switch to it from QL or play as new players. You will blame stupid players that they don't want to play your superior game instead of realizing you introduced millions of obstacles to play it and mistakenly consider them advantages instead of obstacles. You will try to be a good developer and listen to dumbest ideas and suggestions which will make it even worse, but you will miss few actually good suggestions thinking these areas are okay and don't need improvement or that it won't change much and isn't worth the effort. Your crappy game will suck and you will still not get any clue why no one plays it, like it already happened with 17 different AFPS games who tried to revive the genre, and it will be exactly the feeling when losing against top player, you lose 50:-1 for NO FUCKING REASON and YOU DID EVERYTHING RIGHT.