thx redemz ~

gg on fleet... why dont people use crouch sliding?

where ? is it needed?

on lost fleet you can get from shards past shaft to rl quite quickly with sliding,
or when your at ya and sj towards pods and dont want to bump into a wall.. and then get the rail.. you can crouchslide past the corner to rail, get it and then keep on strafejumping.
i dunno.. of course you dont really need it. im just trying to find out if its helpful.. and seeing players like redemz not using it, im asking my self if its just not useful. or maybe simply not comfortable for him to use, because he hast to crouch with his pinky or something...

the whole sliding thing is not that usefull ingame.

I think when people get better at it it could become alot more useful, considering it allows you to turn corners without losing speed

just really hard to get the technique down

I think the whole crouch sliding thing isn't really that usefull maybe in CTF but in a 1on1 i don't see why i should be sliding i dont need to go fast i play my own tempo

hm. maybe you should reconsider that

You don't need to go fast?

Reconsider that maybe? :)

Edit: I mean I second the above post.

And I tell you both to beat Redemz in a duel, then give advices.

if it's usefull somehow it's gonna be used almost no matter how hard it is..

its quite handy when you attack because it makes no sound when sliding. So enemy cant augur his rl shot or so

I think it will come into play several months or even years from now, when people have mastered other aspects of the game and the added speed is the next logical step to gaining an advantage over the opponent.

I have a feeling people will improve shitloads before CPL summer ;)

gg's indeed,
good control at edge

nice disconnect alka :)
pretty lame for a final

not really he played 3 really tensgames after eithouther comming to the final playing wholeday without a rest inbetween, comming back ingames vs if22 and xhep then he faced redemz who was just above everybody in the tourney and got owned. Would prolly be a better game if he had some rest be4 the final respect to alka tbh(ofc not for disconnecting)

eithouther? omg you must be fkin kidding me.. cmon man :)

Can you translate ?

he means 3 games after eachother

I tried to figure but it's a bad typo in that case or a crossover native language/english

:)

heh =)

prolly how he pronounces it i'm thinking ;)

ggs pld. cant wait to see him vs fox or tox :))

I watched him play fox online, he got slapped :)

Then watched fox beat fazz to win the little tourney mode. Unfortunately the demos came out like shit, too laggy to make it worth uploading them.

DOH! :'(

you were always LAGGY.

you mean the game where i played edge for the second time in my life swedish server where he pinged 5? and won the game 9-0? not taking anything away from fox he played ok but i can hardly call that slapping tbh. anywayz ur on my ignore list from now on , nothing but rubbish coming out of you.

he's a very neagtive person

depends on perspective really :)

it was a positive comment for fox. However yes it was on a swe server, but once we get to see them play on lan the smart money would certainly be on fox.

Not to be a dick, but he's only saying what he saw, regardless of the circumstances. apparantly he was right even, he can hardly know the reasons for it tho, which you are here for to explain.

Not only rubbish, i think alot of shit as well.

Upload all demos, there are commands which fix the lag.

and they are? list them here pls :)

net_clientmaxprediction 200 is one - I can't remember the other...

impressive stuff wp redemz :)

very nice played on lost fleet. strong use of shotgun, which is quite different than i have played the map. have to try using it more. still i dont like the map. the structure is cool, but with only one ya... i don't know, just don't like it. wp though

there is 35 armor on shards you know :D with a few shotgun blasts and you're back in the game i think adding another YA would be imbalancing the gameplay.. but I dont know :) ty though

exchanging the yellow armor with the red armor would be the best imho
that would give the fleet gameplay a bit more 'structure'
anyway, i like the map....

nice demos btw

that would totally destroy fleet imho

y? adding a way to control this map isnt wrong imho

because getting ya control back is hard already against a railwhore timing ya perfectly. RA would make it way to easy to control. And you got loads of shards anyway

would be anything but imbalancing the gameplay ;)

imbalancing does not sound right..

hmm.. seems like it's not even a word.. how did i know?

lolz poorly played man, you suck with the shotgun, and do you need your mother to tell you to understand that it is totally useless on this map ? it's a weapon pro's will never use man. the map sucks because I suck at it and it has an ammopack too much and everything gets imbalanced it just fucking sucks. and this poor demo confirms just that

This thread posted by Jamerio shows that at least some pros think the SG is usable:

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=925965

I thought the SG was useless too, but that was due to my bad fps, I never hit with it. If it hits, you get better damage because the spread pattern is less random.

I'm just rambling sorry. :)

Actually, no disrespect to Daler but I thought his comments were the oddest out of the lot.

"Screw OSP and CPMA"
If Raven had included brightskins then there would have been much less need for a mod, but as they did not then a mod is vital for competitve play.

Then he goes on about how Fragyard (the T4 looking one) is fun to him, when most people agree it's deeply flawed for competive play and I assumed that's what people wanted to hear about otherwise why ask a known player?
Ask 20 pro-gamers and I bet less than 20% of them will agree that Fragyard is suitable in stock form.
that does not mean he's wrong, but statistically he's probably a minority with that comment.

I'm sure a lot of people would agree with me that the Q4 shotgun is *a lot* more usable than the Q3 one. Just look at the Fleet game, half of the frags are made with the SG. (".)

What Daler's "minority opinions" or him liking Fragyard has to do with this I don't know. Anyway, gellehsak wants to make a few weapons weaker, including the SG, so he's not alone I guess.

Oh sorry, I was not protesting that the Sg was weaker.
Then again that's a universal notion I think.

Acer was saying that the SG was useless (on Fleet I take it) and that pros don't use it. I contested that, saying that the Q4 SG was more usable than the Q3 one and linked to two pros saying it is stronger. You disagreed saying Daler was probably in a minority, and now you're saying the SG is weaker??

You're not making sense, please clarify what you meant :)

SG is insanely powerful. It's overpowered. Mid range sg's can do up to 80dmg, which is a hell of a lot. And no it's not the lack of armor, the gun is just so strong.

Sorry, I did not mention daler was wrong about the SG. Its univerally regarded as being OTT. You dont need to ask a pro-gamer about that:)

I was referring to his other stuff, like the Fragyard being good when most feels it totally blows for competive play.
And screwing the OSP mod when it's something which I think most people want. Without that Q3 would not have become what it was so the logic puzzled me. Raven did not even bother to include bright skins so go figure:)

the shotgun is more usefull then the q3 counterpart because its so overpowered in this game, you can do massive damage from MID-Range with it and you switch back to rl as fast as you do in CPMA ... NERF ;))

its a bug :)

//mess

yep, agreed, way too much damage from mid-range.
very frustrating sometimes! needs to be fixed!

Should be bliptourney and phrantic, not lostfleet and edge. Oh well, I suppose all in good time :)

lost fleet is great though, rest are rubbish.

Lostfleet is possibly the worst multiplayer map ever created. I would rather play edge, and that's saying a lot, considering how unbalanced it is.

Lostfleet leaves very few opportunities for creative strategy, having only one control area, and is mostly based on aim / conventional map knowledge, like the original t4.

I don't totally discount the possibility that a "pro" version could fix it, but as it stands it's boring and unbalanced. Try playing somebody who's mastered the very straightforward "right" way to play this map: the whole game turns into a series of spawn rapes, first by one player, then by the other.

I have :) I played a bunch of good people my first day playing and its easy to take back control, i'd say its closer to q3dm6tmp than t4. There are numerous ways to get back control, a player in control cannot be everywhere at once! 2 shotguns, a rail, a rocket and a lightening gun, 7 shards (35 armour), if you play sneaky (like when not in control on pdm6 or pt4) its not too tough. Never really got spawn raped at all, whats spawn raping anyway? Anywhere near as bad as, say... any map played in q3? Atleast spawn system is random.

dm6 had 1ra, 1ya, shards and mh... fleet has 1 (ONE) ya and you can shoot from there to almost every place in the map. i cant recall a single q3 map, that had only 1 item like armor and mh... even t4 had both and they figured they need two armors to enhance the gameplay.
one ya is so 80's...

Actually dm6tmp had 2 yellow armours, 5 shards, one 50 health and 4 25 healths. Still the only version of q3dm6 I actually liked. The reason for the armour to be so open is because there is only one, this makes it easy to take back control, unlike t4 (where it was impossible.)

Very nicely played, does anyone know where I can view the brackets/other results of this tournament?

Nicely played redemz, learnt something from wathcing the lost fleet game:)

I know how that guy feels on Edge too. I got raped on it last night by impulse (pczone thingy) and its such a harsh map to come back on, it just makes you wanna throw in the towel when you feel hard done by and that in its self just makes you lose even more frags.
Theres just too little scope for a comeback vs a player who's about your level of play and you can forget it v someone who's slightly better.
The sooner this map is banned from tourney play the better. Without some fairly drastic changes its fundamentally flawed for a competivie game.

Alka could have used a quit pill for sure:)
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=927150

He should have played another 5 mins though:)

As it is right now, I'd agree with you, it's too easy to remain in control. But who knows, maybe someone will show us a great comeback on it, or maybe a more balanced remake of it will be played in tourneys.

Still, wouldn't mind if they took it out of tourneys altogether, since I belong to the "new game new maps" phalanx. :)

Right on, bruvva.

totally true, the times ive played it and tried to come back ended up hide and seek, soo boring :|
get rid of this shit map :>

Well at least you now know how ut2k4 is played

I was playing edge the other night and was loosing 8-0 and made a comeback and won the game 9-8. I'd say wait and give it some time.
There is enough armor for the one not in control about 80 armor on shards and the outside YA if you manage to steal that 1 or 2 times and make a good attack on MH it is possible. Just need to use some brains to come back on this map.

Yeh and who were you playing against?
Anyone decent or at your level of play?

you have to rememebr that at something like the CPL the top 10 players are goign to be so close in terms of skill.
I bet you won't so keen to use your "use some brains" comment when you're up against a top player when the level of play and BRAINS between them is rvery close.

Ive made alot of comebacks vs top notch players on Edge , its very well possible.
Keep training id say.

Well, you have many years of training on The Edge from the Quake 2 days, so I don't doubt you have a few tricks up your sleeve.
Not everyone has that headstart so early on.

Whine.

I made comebacks as well... didnt play q2 before so ...

yea but you've got teh mad aimskillzzzzzzzzzzzzz =)

so true ;)... seriously though, if you play smart enough you can make comebacks on that map

yea you're right =)
smart play + seh aim skillz make a good combination =P

Agreed, I never played Q2 and last night played Astz on edge a few times. In one game of edge he had a 8-0 lead and I managed to break his control finally and scored 6 frags in a row. Sadly the time ran out at 9-8 :(

It can be done, but overall I do think perhaps the YA needs removing from the MH room as well as the ammo packs. That way at least it means u have to leave the room for armour and rail in different directions, this giving the other guy a chance to steal one while he goes for the other.

agreed :).. the map is pretty flawed, at least the item placement

I'm not saying its impossible. I'm just saying its a lot harder to do on this map because there seem to be a lot of choke points on the map which a controlling player can exploit.
Mainly the MH room, the only way in/out is 3 narrow doorways and you have MH/YA and 20 shards plus easy access to the only other YA, not to mention the RG.
If you do manage to steal the outside YA, a good opponent will be on your back in no time and your a sitting duck in a big open space.
If you drop down and go up the jumppad to nades you can get easily railed 100% of time. Same if you go up the PG jump pad. If you drop down your trapped in the RL room and need to use a chunk of it to RJ up.
(assuming a player is on your back of course.)
One good shot and you're scrounging for shards again and spending the next few minutes trying to stack up just to make an attempt of regaining control.

I'm thinking ahead. 2-3-4 months time when everyone has their brightskins and tactics down, rail is god like and people are playing for big money or important tourneys. I think it's important to use level designs which offer fair odds. Edge at a competeive level with real incentive to win is going to cause very bad feelings among the top players IMO.

Its always possible to make comebacks no matter how biased a level is, the question is, will this be possible to do on a consistent enough basis to stop players from getting pissed off with the map?

I guess the CPL demos will reveal all. Peeps are stil learning q4.

lol. it's like getting back control on dm6 in q3. hard but it's very doable.

yes, i agree it is possible, but still tough

it was tough in q2 aswell... still it was a cool map to play. q3 players are such sissy's nowadays... :)

help! almost everything turns black when i play demos =<
cant see shit

I get that too. I found out that creating a multiplayer server and loading any map and then typing playnetDemo solves it.

I ahd that I simply, restarted q4 and it worked second time around. Try loading it in game instead of through the start menu.

thanks both! it worked.
gg redemz
no offence, but I want to see some other topplayers play =<

" i dont need to go fast "
Have you ever played CPMA?

its a quake 4 demo mate, he doesnt need to go fast.

yes as a matter of fact i did. now care to explain what do you mean with that comment?

think it was something along the lines of 'its all about how fast you can move because you can shoot randomly and hit the other player with the seemingly never ending hitboxes'

More of something like if one player can move from point A to point B significantly faster, he has an advantage, and if he can back it up with same or better aim as the opponent, he wins.

The player who jumps like a nut from point A to point B much faster can also run into rockets/nailgun much easier while also LOUDLY announce his movement and die like the noob he is for running like a idiot.

Damn sounds like me :)

thats like saying, if player a frags player b first he has an advantage!!!

well, kinda does give him the advantage in a way, thats the whole point :)

Quake 3 and 4 is generally not about moving fast, its more about not exposing yourself to rails, while trying to get a shot in here and there, jumping is exposing which is why you in Quake 3 also see that only rarely top players would strafejump from A to B rather than a careful approach. Also the armors protect little compared to the "loss" of going for it.. Getting 50 armor at the expensive of getting railed for 100 damage is a bad idea, thus its smarter to avoid fighting too much for it before retreating.

CPM is a totally different game, where the higher speeds allows you to dodge the in other ways weaker rail as well, you still have to think about exposing yourself though, but at the same time theres a much greater point in attacking to win the armors, cause they protect more.

One of many conclusions, 100 dmg rail is terrible.

agree, arqon said that cpm armorsystem would make the game a lot more enjoyable, and would stop much of the nerf rail and sg stuff.. but i guess it wont happen :/

lol?

how would it, theres only single items on the maps!

who else played in that tournament ?

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=926004

I find sliding very useful tbh

Hm haven't really used it that much to be honest but after looking at the comments i think im gonna try it abit more.

<3

is it just me or does killing seem a bit more easy in quake 4?

btw loved the game :)

so much hate here, just touch eachother and be happy

the match was fun to watch :-)
you're on the right way, as it seems... keep going.

20 maps in a row is too much tbh

Nice first game.

if people like this map so much why didnt they play it in q3 :E

Cuz the community was so obsessed with ZTN/PRO-DM6 and pro-t4:)

because quake 3 had good maps? =0

which? if you mean edge, play it for 5 mins and you will see why. :)

THATS MY POINT AARON, THE MAPS SHIT SO WHY PLAY IT NOW

the map isnt shit, the gameplay doesnt work for the map. It worked for q2, didnt work at all for q3 worse than q4, it semi works in q4.

the maps shit

is it just me or is the hud missing in this demo? or am i THAT drunken?
heeeelp me :)

nubs

please keep upping more demos redemz :)

HELP!
i recorded some demos
but during playback
the demo is all laggy
no projectiles etc
anyway to fix it?