"Whether or not these tactics will win you games is debatable, but they indeed worked in this instance."

when the maps get bigger, and smart play is better rewarded i think immortal will end up doing just fine.

galang is larger than blip or phrantic, and I imagine it's a bit larger than fleet. it's got to be my favorite map of them all so far, and it flows well. it's sort of the ztn3tourney1 of Q4, in my humble opinion. smart play is definitely rewarded on this map, but smart play sometimes goes unnoticed; when good players like socrates, fox, fooki, toxic, and cooller are playing, it is hard for tactics to become evident, as these guys tend to play their game so fastly, but I assure you that those guys are some of the smartest players out there, and that's why they win.

agreed

Galang is by far the best in rotation map at the moment. All the others are spam/lg/rail only battles.

galang is like half the size of blip? =P

I would say they are about the same.

Galang really isn't that big :P

Galang is more verticle and blip is more horizontal.

hardly :)

galang is pretty small actually...

ztn doesnt have a rail though. this map reminds me more of cpm3

ztn dosn't have a rail? er :o

Q1 version, duh.

But original post said ztn3tourney1!

Yeah cooller is a given, but I've seen lot's of smart moves done by tox this CPL. He ain't all aim -___-

interesting game... nice post

wow, I didn't know daryl was into q4.

He's probably really good too.

Perhaps vs. bots, which ultimately means nothing.

I think if you can take spiter you're above average atleast :P

hey, btw, what did you get against Q3 bots?
I think my max scores are something like this: original T4 130ish, ztn 100ish, dm6 100ish, t2 80ish, dm13 70-80ish?, and never really played pro-t4 much. JUST WONDERING THX

Hell you play alot of bots, t4 highest 143, t2 92, ztn 75-ish, pt4 90 think I made 99 or 100 once, pdm6...eh... never tried. Kinda stopped playing bots, will prolly start again with Q4, unless I get broadband yay!

your ztn score sucks :))
ztn is my best map so it's easy to get 100 or so there.
ya I play bots sometimes when I'm bored, but not that often, was just thinking about this thread and wondered. ;p

are you talking about regular bots? those are worheless. what's your score against spiter on let's say, dm6?

I don't know? I beat it 26-4 on ztn once. I haven't really tried, but I'll give it a go when I have some time. you're implying, though, that spiterbot scores are any more useful than normal bot scores? both, imho, are just for boredom/fun. my record against real people would be more significant.

Of course bot scores don't mean much , but if you're already doing it's way more fun to play against something resembling intelligence. Playing q3 bots is just dumb. Spiterbot on the other hand is pretty much the best AI I've seen in any FPS game so far. Map control, evasion, positioning, still far from human players fcourse, but fun nevertheless.

It's not dumb at all. I enjoy it, obviously. Spiterbot is pretty boring, as well as annoying on many different levels. Tthe fact that the mod is some crazy shit with messed up physics and graphics doesn't help.

I don't find playing aginst something that can't move,time or aim fun, you could as well be shooting bowling pins.

Ah just saw the post below, that explains few things. :>

got 3-1 first time, 20-3 second time against [100]spite on ztn. I'm pretty sure last time I tried (0.4) I got 26-4. this was with 0.52. I think a couple more games and I could get 40-0 on ztn.

***edit: I beat [100]spite 8-0 my first time trying it on dm6. just sizing it up on my first go. :> should be able to get a big score there as well.
got 9-0 on q3tourney2. was up 8-0 on dm13, but stopped because it got quad.. :) don't think it was optimized for dm13 or t2, someone should update it.
I basically got low scores the first time around on every map, then second game raped it even harder. should be pretty easy. I wish spiterbot had about 30% more tactics and 30% less aim, as well as OSP physics. :o

spite is pretty stupid, aimbot only AFAIR. play with others a bit, i think dante 70-80 is the 'smartest' one tactics wise.

orly, didn't know that.. will try

33-1 vs [100]dante on ztn, harr.. it was actually only 10-1 before he stopped firing. :\ first try tho

i only tried it on dm6. more complex maps prolly confuse bots, more goals, more processing etc..

Yes, because I haven't been able to play online yet. :P

majestic bot tourney > CPL winter

bootes ultimately means nothing?

He's modest :)

nice railing, a bit too campy for me though i prefer more action.

Watch out for meta. He eliminated immortal, purri and booms, losing only to clock. This kid's potential is scary, I'd like to see him really go for it and do some damage.

He lost to cl0ck.....

gg reading skills

Shame you failed to understand what I was saying.

gg reading skills

Indeed

So your point was that clock spells his nickname cl0ck. That either makes you a smug besserwisser or a pathetic fanboy. That might even be worse than failing to notice what nothx wrote.

No it wasn't about how cl0ck writes his nick. I was implying how "only losing to cl0ck" isn't a sign of good things to come.

come back when you defeat cl0ck.

This isn't about me it is about watching out for meta. I think most of the Quake scene would agree that only losing to cl0ck (Who did he lose to in the WB?) isn't exactly a reason to watch out for someone.

clock lost to fox, which is understandable.

Clock also got taken to three maps by Louie, almost lost to meta in the LB (if the CPL bracket scores are to be believed), then lost to Scooby. He's an average player at best. Though I do agree meta showed a lot of potential.

wait, that's average? barely losing to a guy who finished 9-12(?) in an event of 128?
meh.

I'm talking average in the context of the "pro" skill bracket - if he wasn't already there we wouldn't be having this debate :)

Haha I missed this one, it got even funnier. Your brain has to be worth a lot, since it's likely unused.

gg comprehension skills

its not so much a question of comprehension, it's more a matter of failing to have ever heard of ini beating a remotely good player and in that case assuming he was meaning something else. take a hike.

ini wasn't talking about himself, he was talking about meta, which was more than obvious to seemingly everyone but you... now that should perhaps tell you something.

again: gg comprehension skills

S I G H. YES he was talking about meta but evaluating him by not being able to beat another player, a player being regarded as very good by some. stop being a gay smartass.

edit: To make this easy for you to understand; I don't like when random forum posters devaluate known players, that's why I mentioned ini in my previous post. Understand?

I cant devaluate David Beckham if I think he is overrated at football? :(

stop comparing playing video games with football. its just silly. and dont come back asking for an explanation because you know its silly.

"ok"

i think it's called "freedom of speech" :(

hah you just had to reply to this as well, I told him the comparison was being silly, in what way did I infringe on his freedom of speech?
And for zeke.

If you need an explanation as to why your 'ok' response to my previous post is silly:

I think of the football community as split in two factions. Players and fans. There are Elite players in skill tiers from World class to local fun teams, and there are the fans who more often than not doesn't play the game. The players play the game and the fans comment on it. When players give negative comments on other players/teams in public, it's a scandal or at least very controversial.

In gaming there are really only one category - players. People who enjoy watching the elite gamers play the game themselves. People who don't more often than not do not see the point of the game.

This is why I think you can't compare football to gaming. I can evolve this subject more thoroughly if you want me to, but since you aren't american I hope you can imagine the rest.

Time for julklappar.

God Jul

i enjoy watching the CPL, eurocup etc but dont play quake4 myself...
i have been playing quake2,3 for years but that was years ago, still i like watching good games etc...
i bet many football fans also played the game themselves sometime in their lives be it for fun or competition...so thats no point, i can still have my opionion about someones quake skill

hehehe... I have too much spare time. Nicely put, though I disagree.

"...but since you aren't american I hope you can imagine the rest."

Haha that was the funniest quote in a long time. We actually discussed their tunnel vision yesterday.

Hoppas du fick många hårda paket -_-v..

It's called the George Bush effect.

WE HAVE A NEW JAMERIO, HAPPY NEW YEAR

which in turn was something you didn't mention before "come back when you defeat clock", and you even commented on him spelling clock the wrong way instead? sheesh. i'd say that "gg reading skills" was totally unmotivated and that it reflects perfectly upon your comprehension skills, and finally that this is a rather bad cover up on your behalf.

omg you called me gay!!!!11!! am i to be offended now?

haha.

"So your point was that clock spells his nickname cl0ck."

If you can read and understand english, you would interpret that sentence this way:
I was under the impression that he corrected the first poster.

GG comprehension skills...

to be continued?

(this thread is becoming the mother of misunderstandings)

neither one of you know what you are talking about.
stop it, already. you suck at english.

indeed i suck at english. that, however, doesn't keep me from thinking your incompetence should be considered a capital offense.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

You're just slow. Read it a few more times and you'll get it, eventually.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Ok, my mistake, you're clueless as usual and merely in need of trolling something you cannot comprehend.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm glad we agree.

I think your explanation just about covers it.

Indeed there were misunderstandings here... hehe, rather funny ones looking back now.

I don't feel the urge to continue ^^
God jul!

cl0ck was able to use ogc for the game though so its cool.

Ah I see now. My bad :)

rofl +

Meta beat ZeRo4 in PT2? once!!

This is meant to be cynical, right? All I see is a boring rail-dominated hide and seek game and those sneaky rail shots don't impress me at all. There are worlds between him and players like cooller or toxic.

Cynical? I think you misunderstand cynicism. But no, I just thought it was interesting.. There are indeed many different levels between this and toxic/cooller.

The 6:30(ish, the one where immy gets SG'd, picks up MH, SG killed) megahealth was quite interesting in Q3 he would have survived and would likely have been able to be more dominate at that part of the game.

Edit: I think the SG was under used in the end, especially when both players were weak (Like the above situation) where in Q4 it is very powerful.

Immy's tactics revolve a round the rail and it dosn't surprise me he didn't get so far in the end due to half the map pool having no rail and his shafting wasn't very impressive. Think he will do much better at the next event (Which will probably have more rail maps too).

hahaha!

immortal: gg
*immortal shafts meta while he's typing*
meta: very gg
meta: HEY YOU FAG

Interesting playstyle, contradicts a lot of my thinking about what weapons should be out for different situations. For example...

Defending mega
Me: RL, LG, NG
immy: rail

Watching YA from LG
Me: RL or LG
immy: rail

Have hit freshly spawned opponent with 1 rail shot
Me: SSG or LG
immy: rail

Fighting inside the RA area
Me: RL
immy: rail

Seriously though, nice to see q4 developing slightly different playstyles.

yeah 2nd look over its a lot of baiting items with the rail isnt it

The rail is devestating if aim is on, if the opponent's aim or movement or tracking or prediction are off, or if your movement and tracking are on.

I've seen rail runs like this in past versions of quake. It's like hot shooting in basketball. When it goes cold, there's trouble.

Wasn't immy playing CS before? :V

he came from quake2 like you do

Actually I was making a rather lame gag :(

Good post, I enjoyed watching this :) I too expected more from Immortal and still expect more from him in the future.

Great demo, and very good description Daryl. Thanks a lot for sharing.

What's so unique about this demo? Nothing. Just a railho trying to win with the average railho hit-and-run/hide-and-walk tactic. You didn't see this before? Please get out of the cave where you live, for your own sake.

You're much too passive and obviously fail to see beyond superficiality. It's not interesting that he hides and rails so much that the way he does it, and occasionally does manage to maintaim items. It's not like he's _g0d_boytoy and spamming rail in RA3, but he actually has somewhat of a plan and knows where he wants to go. Not that it's all that impressive, but indeed interesting.

definitely interesting alright.

meta's such a pimp.

This is like renting a movie that you have heard was good. You constantly wait for it to get better. About an hour in you realise it won't get any better but you feel as you have too much time invested to stop watching it.

I never played q2 multiplayer, never knew who immortal was before the ggl started talking about him. This demo is absolutely garbage from immortals view. He looks like an average q3 player playing q4. His rail aim is pretty bad, I didn't see any impressive shots. If you value your time skip this demo.