brings back some memorys..

that's a real prize ....not such crappy hardware stuff....

it's a real deal game that's why.
its quite a bummer there hasnt been a game thats come out after q1 thats better than it :(

oh but you are wrong, starcraft wasn't out until 1998, which is two full years after quake was released.

but i'll tolerate this mistake of yours.

yeah but sc is full of dorks and also IX which is a better reason to hate it..... where as quake breeds cool hot people like noctis.

ARENT YOU THAT GUY WHO BEAT FROZEN

haha

i wonder where ferrari ended up now :)

last interview i read of him (years back) he still owned it but very rarely used it iirc

I read somewhere that he kept it as a showcase display of sorts in the entrance of the office he owns or something.

I read on ESR in 2006 that he had sold it.

Talking about id Software. How’s the Ferrari?
I finally sold it this past year as I had it for 7+ years and didn’t drive it often enough.

But I heard what you wrote as well :)

I've read that too.

how much AGP ranking points does Thresh win?

sanctioned by agp xD

over 9000 ?

couldn't finish watching, god that's slow :\

Maybe they didn't have the mouse :XD

this was the best quake? Holy cow that's more boring than halo 1v1.

netquake dif than qw

Great game. But this map is horrible for 1v1 imo. :P And playing just with one weapon. :-/

wow, this is boring.

Its Carmack ;D
Great pick tho!

I don't know who makes these videos, but is it really necessary to do them without a visible gun, assy crosshair and bobbing?

Hey man, we don't usually have no gun. I looked everywhere and talked to many Quake 1 players on how to get the model on and this demo was simply recorded without gun model off. Therefore, I guess it cannot be shown in Quake 1. If you see our other vids there is always a gun model. Apologies but it was out of my hands.

I know Thresh played with a visible gunmodel.
he also played q2 with a visible gunmodel.

yeah, i vaguely remember that, for example, demos recorded with qizmo lacked viewmodels.

it also seems like the movie (or the computer you run the demo)uses 10 or 15 fps, or is it just some browser pb?

The original demos were recorded from chase cam, there were no first person pov demos from Red Annihilation. This demo is so crappy because it was converted from the chase cam.

oh good, it looks just the same as two newbies dueling in ql.... :D

not too late for u, then

Hahaha, netquake duels on e1m2 with dmm1. And they're both so utterly terrible at the game that this is embarassing to watch. Anyone playing more than a month nowadays would absolutely destroy them.

anyone playing 1month back in 1997 would have been raped hard by both of em

Someone gets it.

Anyone playing 1 month back then would still be considering if he should keep playing with keyboard or switch to mouse. Even doing a rocket jump was meritory back then, ffs.

Yeah, gaming evolved. So what's your point, again?

Actually, that WAS my point. Not "lolol thresh is a nub i cud beet him cuz I m l33t".

should have let the "embarassing" out, then.

Except this was in 1997 and everything that you mentions works for 2009.

So yeah get a time machine and try to comment again after kthxbye

"Except this was in 1997 and everything that you mentions works for 2009."

What? People still play netquake? With 30 second weapon and ammo respawn in duels? On e1m2?

Well, I suppose some people do still play netquake. I saw a US 4on4 tournament last year which only had one map (dm3) in the pool, so that poorly thought-out, stagnant and easily exploitable ruleset would not surprise me in the least.

I'm not saying they're untalented players; I'm saying that competition in quake was in its infancy, and it shows that no one put any thought in to what should have been a big deal considering the prize pool.

I meant that your sentence only applies for gaming nowadays and would be completely wrong for the year 1997 and the level of play in those days.

You're horribly ignorant on the matter. The competition was much higher than is indicated by this final game. At the time of this final, Entropy had more or less given up for psychological reasons. He was really doing nothing on the map, but thresh was being extremely cautious, after all the stakes were arguably the highest in gaming history.

E1M2 was chosen because Ent was ultra strong on dm4 and dm2, whereas thresh had the advantage on 6. The other map in the map pool was E3M2 I believe, in which it was actually possible for whoever got control to never lose it (and have the ability to get kills).

Thresh's strategy on that map was to deny the opponent rocket ammo which was extraordinarily effective. The rl strategy doesn't really work because there's no armor there. The opponent can wear you down with the gl/sng and you will end up losing the position, and once you are down in score your rl strategy certainly will not work.

They were all very talented players and they had the ability to adapt well to changing circumstances. Even a player from the future would not have a free ride.

http://methosq.com/newsjuly98.htm

Actually, here was the interview explaining it, just search 'entropy'.

To this day I would still enjoy looking at his config, but it's non-existent. Plus I have no idea what happened to him. Anyone have any idea? I know he hung out in the #impulse9 channel for a while after RA.

Ah, that is a damn shame. They should have played BO3 on DM2, DM4, and DM6.

"(...) And they're both so utterly terrible at the game that this is embarassing to watch"
...
"I'm not saying they're untalented players (...)"


Excuse me what?

you could play all your life and you would still be destroyed by their 1996 level of play

Okay, now you're the one being silly.

you're an idiot that probably never played qw, now please stfu

EDIT:
QWWiki: 2008 - 3rd place: NQR 11 (Na Fianna.b) Rookie Division.
I guess someone placing third in the rookie division has a lot of chances against thresh :-)

Yeah, because 4on4 (in which my team is undefeated so far in div3) is exactly the same thing as duelling. But then you'd know that being such an obvious qw expert, even though you didn't notice that it isn't actually a quakeworld demo.

I placed reasonably respectably in the current duel tournament, but even that is not relevant. All that is relevant is the level of development their gameplay was at during that match, which is what I was commenting on. It was EXTREMELY crude.

Tell me, what is to stop them denying the enemy an RL for the entire match, given the long respawn time, the lack of any other significant weapons and the lack of any safe methods of attacking it? How would they have dealt with that strategy?

I'm not saying they are untalented players. I am saying that the gameplay was unevolved and easily exploitable in hindsight, which they did not do due to lack of experience and the wealth of knowledge about competitive FPS games that we have today.

But, by all means, call me shit and quote results from my first year of 4on4 instead of addressing my points.

Of course the would probably lose against the current elite players in qw, but I am not so sure players beneath the elite could beat them ...

Thresh does aim quite good and has good reflexes,
he plays with a certain intelligence he predicts and hears his enemy, I don't think this match is as boring as others say ...
ofcourse it was still netquake and the map was not ideal for duel, but still, I still see a good quality of play ... remember ... you said this: "And they're both so utterly terrible at the game that this is embarassing to watch", these players are at least good, to say the least ... and you know thresh won tournaments in doom before, he is not newb or something ... these players are skilled, I won't deny the elite qw players would beat them, but you shouldn't forget they had a bit more time to practice ... and duel ist not only about aim and movement, is also about strategy, I know a certain player, although I had better aim and movement than him I still lost, just because he knew better how to control the map .... and you can see also in this demo how thresh controls the map ... some guy rocketjumping and bunnyhopping with great expertice might still lose to him, because thresh doesn't give him any armors/weapons ...

but tbh. your very pejorative sentence does do these players a lot of unjustice ... let me give you this interpretation ... you hate them, because they are still the stars of qw for the mainstream, and it is not you, the new qw players people care for ...

No one plays qw for mainstream fame. The players play for the respect of their peers, victory or both. I couldn't care less if some q3 player doesn't know who milton, dag, reppie or griffin are because everyone who knows the game does.

Perhaps I am underestimating Thresh a little; People often play at less than 100% against weak opponents, but I watch that game and only see the things that could have been and weren't.

Thresh always was unespectacular, tbh. At Q2 his POV looked kinda noobish in some aspects... and still beat everyone, including players whose POV looked friggin amazing.

EDIT: Scroll downwards for the Quakadelica demos vs Billox. Billox moves like a pro, Thresh like a noob. But Thresh controls the map flawless. The final ownage is embarassing.

It wasn't really that embarrassing. Billox wasn't a duel player. He won a FFA tournament where the prize was a duel against Thresh. And Thresh got to pick the map. It was pretty stupid really.

I don't think Billox would have picked any other map anyway? :P
But ye, you're right. Billox just rushes for a weapong to attack. Still the point applies, see Billox in warmup doing every trick to mega, and Thresh doing only the easiest one, when not rj'ing.

no Q2DM1 was by far his worst map afaik, his best map was some popular custom map match1 ( I think I never really played quake2 that much except a bit of ctf for a while)

Maybe Thresh has more world championships than Fatality if he bothered to go back and count them all!

Tell me, what is to stop them denying the enemy an RL for the entire match, given the long respawn time, the lack of any other significant weapons and the lack of any safe methods of attacking it? How would they have dealt with that strategy?

The distance from the RL to the YA or MEGA/GA is the problem. Try walking it, and if you decided just to camp the rl - it should be farely easy for your opponant to get YA/MEGA, spam with GL and attack RL with SNG.

But I'll give you, while keeping cyronix's point in mind - That any decent qw player today, could have won that game. This is not because Thresh was bad, but simple because of the knowledge we have of the game, that he didn't. We would be able (even tho it's NQ) to bunnyjump and collect items much faster, our movement would be smoother for dodging and we would be able to rocket jump to safety, and use it for collecting items. On top of that, we have years of tactical knowledge that's been passed on from player to player.

If you've read "Thresh's Quake Bible", you would/should know how he played. He explains his whole style of play, and he is very much basing it on tactics, rather than aim and movement. Much of what he explains in his "bible" is stuff that any Quaker knows today, be it qw/q2/q3/ql.

I recently watched some old demos of myself playing, from 99-02. What I noticed watching those was not that my aim was bad, but that my movement was so awkward and that I did the stupidest things (tactical wise). Back then I had plenty of time to play, being only 15 and having just school to worry about. But today I have 10 years of movement experience and a great deal of tactical knowledge. So even if my 15-17 year old self had the day to day aim practice and probably could out aim me today - I'm sure I would have no problem tearing my younger self apart :D

Same goes for Thresh I guess, he wasn't an aim god or had the smoothest movement. But what he did have, was the tactical advantage over his opponents, much of what he was good at back then, we don't even think about today - We just do it.

Also in everything I've ever heard and read from or about Thresh, he or others mention that he liked the tactical aspect of the game, the fast paced shooter that QW and other Quake games evolved into was not something he was fond of.

I also believe that his influence on Quake2, is probably what contributed to it being a slower game at first. A player like Thresh would not pick a game like what QW is today, it doesn't fit his style of play.

"But I'll give you, while keeping cyronix's point in mind - That any decent qw player today, could have won that game. This is not because Thresh was bad, but simple because of the knowledge we have of the game, that he didn't."

This is exactly what I've been trying to say all along. <3

.. whatever

A Ferrari? what a piece of crap! I would sell it and buy new mousepad.

yeah why so bad crosshair and bobbing? and bad fps too.

What a pair of noobs, they should totally play as good as people 12 years later.

These 2 players are far from bad everyone. First of all, they had ball mice. The graphics were FAR worse than what is here. Don't believe me, boot up the game. It was the first FPS you could aim up and down in. Strafe jumping had not really been noticed yet nor the air movement the game has.

In Quake 1, RL was VERY powerful. Thresh played uber defensive and that map allowed it. It was the first tournament for any decent prize after all. And it was a freaking Ferrari. Thresh would simply do whatever it took not to be fragged. It was how he played. Fatal1ty did the same for the most part. There is a reason Thresh never lost a tournament. While not as fast and furious as today, the intelligent way Thresh played might not be as obvious to anyone that didn't play back then or Q1 now.

++ for you

- First of all, they had ball mice.

What? "pro" q3 players were using ballmice and were a million times better than that.

- The graphics were FAR worse than what is here.

And because of that what? It was hard to play? People still play qw in totally horrible mode because they prefer it that way.

- It was the first FPS you could aim up and down in.

But not the first game you could aim up and down using a mouse.

- Strafe jumping had not really been noticed yet nor the air movement the game has.

This. This is the only valid point in your otherwise crap post. And it should be obvious that this is why to anyone with half a brain.

Lol? Ball mice. What.

please tell me exactly what is so "bad" about this game ...

Nothing? For its time. The "bad" is streetrunners "reasons" for lowish quality play, which is understandable for the age of the demo. But ball mice and low fps are not the reasons.

I think that you could already aim up and down in Marathon 3 years prior to Quake.

Why is it infamous?

Because of the pri--oh, infamous ... Yeah good point.

I agree the level of play has evolved since the days of q1 and q2,
when q3 was played professionally.
Many q1 and q2 players made the switch to q3 and transported the knowledge to q3a, and also internet connections became cheaper, making it possible for more people to play online and flatrates made it possible for many people to invest more time into quake.
In germany servers used to be only at universitys and it was problematic to connect to them because university net and commercial net was separated ... but then the connection between commercial und uninet got more bandwith and with the internet becoming mainstream there were also servers in the commercial net with good ping times for players with commercial isp.
Also there didn't really use to be internet forums like esreality ...
everything was managed on irc/icq ... news got spread from mouth-to-mouth :-), with sites like esreality news and everything got more easily accessible ... and with q3 there was also a better structure ...
there were many organized tournaments ... in days of q1/q2 there was not so much structure ... only some tournaments in the usa, in europe there was more or less the edl in q2 and the true gamers invitational and clan nine vs deathrow, not more than 5 tournaments in total ... you could say only after q3, playing quake became a sport.

"in days of q1/q2" - So those days are over? When did that happen, and who forgot to tell me? :(

With the days of q1 and q2 I meant when they were "hot",
when these games were released they were basically the only fps being played online ...

Also of course in the days of q1 and q2 there were also good players, players also knew how to control the map and time items back then, but I really think it got to a new level in Q3A, due to the fact it was played professionally.

of course there still is a scene today in q1/q2, which is cool,
but you know it's not anymore hot and there are only few freshmen,
but this currently is the destiny of any game, any game will be outdated sometime ... I am one of the last men on earth who would deny that QW or Q2 is comparable gameplaywise to Q3/Q4/QL/ANY FPS ... but you know, the "world" doesn't like "old" games ...

As already stated there should be some institution that should design an "official fps", that over time gets graphical updates, but gameplaywise stays the same ... so you could get back to your game after a longer period of time and your skill obtained in the game are still worth something ... and there should be a wch cycle ... so competetive fps players could all gather in one game and fps gaming could get big ... but when we would also need people who accept this institution ... and there are probably also people who find this "diversity" of different small fps communitys cool ... everywhere you can find good and negative things if you want to ... anyway, could a quakeplayer really make conversation with a ut or call of duty player ... ? :-), ask yourself what is more beneficial ...

The "world" want's easy games, that's easy to learn and play and easy to toss away again, most youngsters don't want to use endless hours practicing a game just to be able to play it. They don't want to use time on learning spawn times, or how to be controling a map by denying armors or what not. They want to spawn with their weapons and get powerups by their current killstreak, and they don't want to be good at it fast! The only "hard" games that can still attract new players, are the ones with a large player base or games getting a lot of publicity (ql/sc/cs).

I like your idea of a "official fps", it's something I've dreamed a lot about. A good game that never really changes, but just gets updated and is always compatible with older versions. But that idea is probably not profitable or likely to ever materialize.

"could a quakeplayer really make conversation with a ut or call of duty player" - I don't know, but I remember the days when q2/q3/ut was "the other games". Back then there was not much respect between the Quake communities, as time has passed and other game types have taken over, I think that the deathmatch scenes has moved closer together. I've never played Quake2 or Quake3 on a high level, but I do enjoy watching Q2/Q3/QL matches today, something I never would have considered doing in the past. And I know that there are Q3 players that has never played QW, who follow the QW scene to some extent.

So maybe in some years, when "the other games" are not FPS games - FPS gamers will unite under one banner (game).

The "world" want's easy games, that's easy to learn and play and easy to toss away again, most youngsters don't want to use endless hours practicing a game just to be able to play it. They don't want to use time on learning spawn times, or how to be controling a map by denying armors or what not. They want to spawn with their weapons and get powerups by their current killstreak, and they don't want to be good at it fast! The only "hard" games that can still attract new players, are the ones with a large player base or games getting a lot of publicity (ql/sc/cs).

The majority of players don't buy a game looking for a job. The majority of players who are looking for a game as a job will play an MMO. CS and QL are both in major decline, with both being rather small to begin with - not that either of these two could be considered "hard."

I've never played Quake2 or Quake3 on a high level, but I do enjoy watching Q2/Q3/QL matches today, something I never would have considered doing in the past. And I know that there are Q3 players that has never played QW, who follow the QW scene to some extent.

The word for this is "desperation."

I don't think the level of play has evolved from q2 to q3. Of course internet was more accesible at q3 so there are more players which also means many more top notch players at Q3, and players with more precission, but, I've not seen new tactics nor more complexity introduced after Q3 was released. The evolution has happened from the early Q1 to late Q2, imo.

Watched the first 2 minutes and realised things have moved on.

missing link to prove evolution imo

lets see some q2 demos of the legend

Here is a demo with Thresh playing Quake2 at QuakeDelica, but its not a pov demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyX1Cc6Ejjk&hd=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoG4ljh9XDY&hd=1

Here is one with his POV on q2dm1 vs Angelstorm:
http://www.wegame.com/watch/Thresh_vs_Angelst...98_Season/

Some games against Immortal:
http://www.wegame.com/watch/Immortal_vs_Thres..._WB_Final/ (Immortals POV)
http://www.wegame.com/watch/Thresh_vs_Immorta...per_Final/
http://www.wegame.com/watch/Thresh_vs_Immorta...Season3_2/

Thanks for the links...

The pickup sounds are very similiar to the one in q3, did id use the same for both games or is this some third party mod/addon? I never really played q2.. =/

The pickup sounds are from my custom Quake2 pak file and there are from Q3. The vQ2 armor pickup sounds are to silent and short, you can barely hear them. The best thing about q1 and q2 is that you can make your own custom pak file and make these 2 games look and sound just the way you like it :)

You should try Quake2: http://q2scene.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=488
or if you want the original stuff, download quake2 demo and v3.20 patch.

PS. Here is a Quake4 video:
http://www.wegame.com/watch/Av3k-vs-Toxjq-WSV...ille-Map1/

I own quake2, i've once had it installed and played the SP a bit.. but that was on my old Rig....however i will reinstall it soon
have a plus for all the links especially the last one ;P

The angelstorm demo was very impressive. It's like 12 years ago and everything is on par with today's level except for his movements and rail aim.

I would have loved to see the game lasts 5 more minutes to see how he plays when he's totally lost control of the map (which he doesn't let happen too often).

yeap it was a terrible match but it convinced many people to start playing quake

B0r1ng

You did! Thank you :D

romero vs killcreek, funny to watch nowadays.

They probably only got 30-40FPS max at 320*200 resolution in software on the PC when these were played. The reason RL was so powerful was because you couldn't aim LG like today with low FPS and bad mice. I don't remember what old computers used to ping on lan but even that was probably a bit higher and ice skating movement was in NQ from lag.

Yeah these demos suck today. I think even at the time they were recognized to be fairly boring despite showing very high level play few had yet been exposed to. I forgot why they played E1M2 I thought there was some story behind that or oddity. I know it wasn't exactly the most played map but people did play it. People also used to duel on DM3, LOL. Just a few years later the play in Q1 was much higher and today in QW the skill level is insanity.

IIRC. The players were unhappy with the map pool and had a gentleman's agreement to eliminate all the maps except DM2, DM4 and DM6 but Thresh reneged on it for the final.

I heard a story from a former team mate of Thresh's that he was the most hardass person evar when it came to arguing rules and such, which is partly why he was 'undefeated.'

I'd buy that. Especially early on admins for leagues/tourneys weren't very experienced either, so lots of mistakes were probably made. As someone who has ran various tourneys I know how much of a hassle super competitive players can be regarding rules. Sometimes admins give in, even if it changes the outcome of a match just to get left alone.

I think so. This match really sucked. I think the only reason there wasn't more fuss is that Thresh was clearly seen as the better player anyway (even though Entropy was the favourite before the start of the tournament ) and the only chance Entropy really had was on DM4. Thresh had a much harder route to the finals beating Hijinks, Gollum, and Reptile, all on 'proper' maps, so deserved it more from that point of view. But it is a shame he felt he had to force things so much in his favour and humiliate Entropy in the final to this extent.

Wasnt that match already on youtube for few years?

320x200?? Umm.. no.. maybe some played this way.. but people who were up to speed with hardcore gaming were not running this. 3DFX released the first voodoo card during quake 1. I still remember the first time seeing quake 1 on a 3d accelerated video card. And by the time quake 2 came around, people were running dual (SLI) Voodoo cards resulting in silky smooth 120fps. And as far as ball mice.. people were over-clocking the ps2 bus from 40 to 200 hertz (that's faster than the default USB rate) long before USB Optical mice were even available. So.. all said and done, PCs were not nearly as prehistoric during the q2 days as some might like to think.

And for all you haters... Thresh dominated then just as he would dominate now. :)

K9-Usurper

having a higher output in hz of the mouse, doesn't really mean that the mouses of back then are comparable to those we use now though.
And I'm not sure if thresh would dominate like he did back then.... but I'm a fan of how he played though :)

I was under the impression Thresh used dosquake since it had better sound(it reached farther, AFAIK).

What ever happened to Entropy? Does anybody know?

Anyways... Ahhh, the good 'ol days. *sniff* *sniff* :~)

As a non-Quake player, I've known who Thresh was since 2003 or so, but never heard of Entropy.

Was Entropy a favorite to win this event? Like, was he a top 3 player, or did his true skill shine in this specific tournament?

Yes he was the star player for Impulse 9 who won the first big North American 4v4 tournament. Entropy and Reptile were probably the biggest favourites before the tournament started.

this game sux

http://www.own3d.tv/watch/dag-def-extreme-3,11092.html

still sux, even with this horroble ELECTRO METAL!!!!

This is historic, I don't get the whine.

Yeah some retarded whine...

I almost expected Brumu to show up and link some qlive accounts to say how badly these 2 players would get raped in qlive or something..

It would be cool if the AGP promoted a recent qw thriller. Maybe the milton vs reppie games allthough they weren't the most entertaining imo.

Recently the Locktar vs Locust/Avenger games were really cool.

Nice initiative, should do some Shub TDM too.

Q2 that is ;)

Sickest aim ever :)

I don't care if today people does higher percentages, aiming today doesn't have the same difficulty, it was just sick.

I think in order to be good at a game, you need a very good understanding of the mechanics of the game, and Thresh was doing very well with it at the time
as some said here the demo is boring, please notice how Thresh was chosing every time the place of the fight, placing himself between the position of his enemy and the armor/health, and then fighting defensively, and trapping his opponent, using the terrain he had time to observe, we can see an early example of the positioning advantage at work

Can't get why people whine about boredom. Time will pass, and admired matches of this year will be whined at in the same way, will be called boring and lame, unless people will change overtime to more sensible creatures.

Epic historical stuff, thanx for making the videos. It's always curious to see how people played many years ago.

TBH this game is still a classic despite being 12 years old and played on a TDM map.

Doubt anyone is gonna give a fuck about watching Rapha play cypher on t9 in 2021.

we'll be too busy driving around in hovercars on mars to worry about computer games

thats what they said 50years ago,now look at us,concorde is out of production for years now,electric car was killed in the 70s only now some emerging into the public view,..

we are really developing new ways of extracting money from the public and nothing else

But maybe a Tesla will come along and fuck everything up :D

The Tesla we already had was enough, look at how his funding worked out and his ideas were stolen/used covertly by the military.

true,tesla made the 20century possible and many stole his brilliant ideas,i know what your saying we already have the technology we need

f e r r a r i .

f u r b y .

a l o n s o

a l o n s o

m a s s a

=

W I N N E R S

4on4 map, dmm1 and 20min :(

Again a video upload by AGP that is somewhat NOT smooth to look at.

If you wanna do these clips, atleast put some effort into it.

This match is so overrated and full of bore and shit. Thresh is the most overrated player of all times and simply held in high regard because he beat a bunch of noobs and won an expensive gift. He has nothing on cooller & fat & others.

he had somth... he was first after Billy Mitchell :)

True. Pussy refused to play Laker/Kane. He smashed immortal on map immortal probably never played. Big deal. Then he owned some division 5 noob from UK in Q2.

Totally overrated.

That was immortal's fault for not knowing all the maps in a competition, not thresh's. I don't blame Fatality for knowing dm13 and dm6 when I did not at Razer CPL.

As for Kane/Lakerman.... why play them? Why should he have? So they can try to make a name for themselves at his expense? What did they have to offer him besides an ego stroke if he won? Nothing is the answer. There is an old saying: "If you can do something well, never do it for free."

Think before you speak... those guys played QW all the time, Dennis did not, he played NQ. He was already making the switch to Quake 2 when this whole Deathrow vs 9 thing came up.

If you actually think the DR vs 9 games go exactly the same way if they played 12-18 months before that, then you're less-informed than you think. Most of the guys from Deathrow had stopped playing quake and just picked it up again when the Sweden trip was offered. Maybe 9 still wins, but it wouldn't have been as easy.

I know for a fact that Unholy, Thresh, B2, and others were all giving Quake 2 a go before the Sweden trip was offered.

"He has nothing on cooller & fat & others."


I'd say he has about 6-7 figures on those guys... just FYI. Dennis was able to use his gaming success and transfer it to business success. Far more successful than any gamer in the history of gaming.

If you actually knew the guy, instead of talking out of your ass like you are now, you'd know that Dennis is ultra-competitive and does not like to lose at anything. The guy is a winner, plain and simple. If you knew him, you'd understand that. I don't care if you are playing golf, street fighter, pool, or checkers, the guy is just a "gamer" in the truest sense of the word and loves to win.

Of course, you're just some random peon that is talking about somebody they don't even know and hating on their success. Put down the haterade, it is bad for your health, seriously.

Not to mention cooler, fat, etc, would not have anything from gaming if it weren't for guys like Dennis Fong paving the way.

Far more successful than any gamer in the history of gaming.

Unfamiliar with Starcraft, I take it.

Starcraft players turned their fame into a multi-million dollar business???

I think not.....

What the fuck do you think a pro gaming team is?

please present a pro-gaming team that was sold for the same or a higher price than what thresh got for his business.

The largest portion of hyping thresh as the ultimate progamer comes from one high profile amateurish tournament where he won a car. Making millions in business is irrelevant to this matter and it's no wonder an ameriCUNT made that comment about money.

That was not the only tournament he won. (PGL Season 1 and 3 for duel and PGL Season 3 Quake Teamplay) He was also the first gamer to be sponsored by a large company like Microsoft. Not to mention there is the factor that he was the "first" which can never be taken away. Thresh made gaming history whether you like it or not.

Your opinion is obviously based on hate and bias especially given your "Americunt" comment. Let go of the hate, it is bad for you.

Sure he made history and so did tons of others in other sports and areas but by no means are they good by today's standards. Classics can still be shit and oftten are and are only favoured because of nostalgia or other silly reasons. I don't hate the man but to brand him the best progamer ever lived is retarded at best.

It's the typical american mentality. If some console gaming retard wins 10 million from some guitar hero compo is he then the best progamer or most successful progamer because he won the most money? Answer: hell no, unless the person asked is american.

Who said anything about best? Most successful and best are not the same thing.

I'd agree he is the most successful yet given how much money he has made in other ventures. I was always a bit let down that he never tried to support pro-gaming or came back to give to the community. I know there was some gaming league planned but that never happened. If I happen to ever be worth $100 million plus I'd certainly start up my own pro-league, probably running QW. ;-)

Your opinion is obviously based on hate and bias especially given you are pushpabon.


fixed.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to take sides here at all since I think this whole "Thresh was [shit / average / great / greatest] is not for me to judge... My question comes out of curiosity, I am not trying to argue a point:

If Thresh is a true gamer in the purest sense, then wouldn't he have liked to match himself against the best European players and see where he stands instead of dodging them?

Aug 98
9 vs. DR - attended despite him and two of the other players being Q2 players at the time who had to make Quake comebacks just to play in the series. Got beaten 2-8 in 5 netquake + 5 QW games. Thresh didn't even know about the DM3 RA jump, that's how long he had been out of it.

As context: Quakedelica was Oct 98 and the PGL where he beat immortal in the final was Nov 98 (both Q2)

Oct 98
Quakeadelica exhibition - Flown over to play the winner. Tournament was FFA until the exhibition game IIRC, UK only and wireplay servers only. Still were a number of elite UK players who could and likely would have made it if they'd entered, not like Thresh is at fault for them not competing.

April 99
TGi - Hadn't been a Quake dueler in over one year (PGL 1 finished in early Feb 98) Plus they played QW not netquake.

July 99
EDL exhibition of makaveli-Shub - No longer playing Q2, hadn't competed in PGL 4 which finished in May of that year.

Which tournaments was he "dodging" the Europeans by not playing?

TGi his flight would have been paid IIRC but they played QW as opposed to his native netquake and then throw in his inactivity in Quake due to Quake 2. Other than that I know of none which had prize money worth an international flight.

I never said he was dodging tournaments. A few comments above someone mentioned Thresh did not want to play Kane or LakermaN when he was in the same room and I was pointing it out as a contrast to his reported competitiveness.

I am assuming he either cared even more about his reputation than comparing his skill against that of the best Europeans... or the differences between NQ and QL were big enough for him to assume it didn't make sense at all. Or both.

A few comments above someone mentioned Thresh did not want to play Kane or LakermaN when he was in the same room

I can't find any comment other than terror saying "Pussy refused to play Laker/Kane". When were they ever in the same room?

It's conceivable perhaps that LakermaN went down to the 9-DR games, being Swedish, but I haven't seen that said anywhere here, and Kane was surely living in Germany.

They invited a a lot of the best players and they were planning to have some duel matches as well as the team games but after Deathrow lost to IOP they weren't in the mood. IIRC Timber, Sectopod, Sujoy, and Lakerman were all there, and Xenon challenged Thresh as well but was refused.

What really sucks about this match is that the semifinals were supposedly loads better but there aren't any demos. The thresh vs Hijinks DM2 match was meant to have been really good. And I'd really like to have seen the game against Gollum I think which was on DM4 but both those are lost.

They weren't recorded or they are just lost in time?

all the matches were recorded, but only chasecam and afaik no one kept them unfortunately.

I had a couple of rare demos of Thresh matches from the PGL? one vs DMANN on dm2 and another vs B2 on dm1 but lost them in a hard disk crash, wish I had uploaded them to CHTV or somewhere with hindsight.