ESR - I miss CZM =( - ESReality Site Forum

<< Comment #1 @ 03:08 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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oreozz

in a cpm demo he claims he forgot to put xerp on during his eswc08 matches!

<< Comment #2 @ 04:12 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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stunt.us

No need for xerp now in QL!!! come back czm stop wasting your time with math!

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<< Comment #4 @ 05:25 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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GUArd - Reply to #2

"come back czm stop wasting your time with math! "
[+]

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<< Comment #27 @ 11:02 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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stunt.us - Reply to #4

oh god I don't want to make myself sound stupid but I went to + you back and I clicked the white one... :(

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<< Comment #34 @ 13:38 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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GUArd - Reply to #27

dont use cheap drugs! :)

<< Comment #39 @ 15:44 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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valvalis - Reply to #34

smoke cheap cigars instead! :)

<< Comment #57 @ 02:51 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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By $\0/$ fragerr - Reply to #34

smoke cheap cigars instead! :)

<< Comment #59 @ 03:47 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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GUArd - Reply to #57

cheap cigars = like smoke dry shit.

<< Comment #3 @ 05:09 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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By

gl00my

agree!

<< Comment #5 @ 05:51 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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butchji

toxjq is being missed even more!

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<< Comment #165 @ 02:09 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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bubble - Reply to #5

Without practice, he played closes games versus Stermy :

http://www.quakelive.com/#profile/summary/toxjq

<< Comment #166 @ 03:06 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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butchji - Reply to #165

nice :)

<< Comment #214 @ 22:18 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

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ZeritoN - Reply to #165

I think what is even more interesting is the matches he played today (25th) against Cooller and Strenx

He played close to strenx, 2-1 on ZTN, 3-1 on DM13 and 5-3 on DM6... Who knows if Strenx doesn't like his conditions at Stermy's place (they're lan'ing apparently), but those are good results :P

edit: just noticed he matched Strenx's LG on all maps (they're both at the 35% mark)

Edited by Zer1toN at 22:22 CST, 25 February 2010

<< Comment #196 @ 11:41 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

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Dynamix - Reply to #5

In Q3/L, ehhh dunno...

<< Comment #219 @ 06:39 CST, 27 February 2010 >>

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kevz - Reply to #196

what, QL needs more mg to rail combo's :>

<< Comment #6 @ 06:19 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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By

supersexyleetmegaruler

not every good player from a great game wants to come back to a crap game that claims to be as good as the great game

<< Comment #7 @ 06:46 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #6

that's what she said.

<< Comment #8 @ 07:35 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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browser

yeah i agree with that. he had this hectic mousemovement(comeback frags vs cooller eswc) and such fluent weapon switching.

<< Comment #11 @ 09:15 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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crea* ' - Reply to #8

Yeah, when I switch weapons it's like really choppy and stuff. czm makes it look so fluent it's amazing

<< Comment #14 @ 09:22 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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dansen - Reply to #11

i always drop my rocketlauncher and then stumble over it.

sometimes i shoot myself in the foot with mg aswell.

Edited by dansen at 09:22 CST, 11 February 2010

<< Comment #19 @ 09:31 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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crea* ' - Reply to #14

I once telefragged myself! true story.

you could try to throw weapons at your enemies, if they have autoswitch enabled this might give you thos extra 10 secs to kill them

<< Comment #189 @ 04:35 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

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unihumi - Reply to #19

haha

<< Comment #40 @ 15:45 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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baron Railgun : - Reply to #14

no autopummel? =[

<< Comment #9 @ 07:42 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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hnns

so Cypher can rape him again?

<< Comment #13 @ 09:19 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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Jamerio : - Reply to #9

Cypher only beat him when he was no longer playing and came back with a fraction of play time.

When CZM was at his best he could beat anyone and often did, Cypher wasn't even good enough to come close to him back then.

The bottom line is CZM was a top player when everyone cared.

Like I always say, if you didn't make it by 2004, you never did.

Also considering he put himself through princeton while so many other "good" gamers put their lives on hold I would say CZM is actually the best overall player.

Any douche bag can dump 10 years of thier life into a videogame, get good while behind the scenes their real life/education/career is in tatters.

Being an enigma is not as easy as you might expect.

Edited by Jamerio at 09:21 CST, 11 February 2010

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<< Comment #15 @ 09:23 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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dansen - Reply to #13

education doesn't matter.

<< Comment #41 @ 15:49 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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baron Railgun : - Reply to #15

unless you are attending cooller school: http://esreality.hexus.net/?a=post&id=1822911

<< Comment #16 @ 09:24 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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hnns - Reply to #13

Also considering he put himself through princeton while so many other "good" gamers put their lives on hold I would say CZM is actually the best overall player.

Wrong, degrees are for people who don't have the skills to make it in the real world.

<< Comment #17 @ 09:29 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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bsk - Reply to #16

Obviously over-broad generalisation is obvious.

<< Comment #18 @ 09:29 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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son1dow - Reply to #16

was just going to make fun of that sentence, wouldn't have bothered to explain it to jamerio himself lol

<< Comment #48 @ 22:30 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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Heartlesss - Reply to #16

you could say the same thing for quake lol

<< Comment #50 @ 22:39 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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Nukm - Reply to #48

Wrong, degrees are for people who don't have the skills to make it in quake.

<< Comment #52 @ 22:52 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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Heartlesss - Reply to #50

n1one (c) czm

;D

<< Comment #175 @ 15:42 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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lolograde ' - Reply to #52

Q.E.D. (c) czm

<< Comment #20 @ 09:55 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #13

When was czm the best?

Lost in 1999
Lost in 2000
Lost in 2001
Lost in 2002
Lost in 2003
Lost in 2004
Lost in 2005
Won in 2006
Lost since

He was the best when all the good players were off playing Q4?

Edited by iNkind at 10:00 CST, 11 February 2010

<< Comment #22 @ 10:07 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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vedic - Reply to #20

* won in 2004

<< Comment #35 @ 15:20 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #22

BO1 and he lost games (He wasn't "the best").

<< Comment #36 @ 15:22 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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vedic - Reply to #35

So... he still won.

<< Comment #37 @ 15:27 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #36

He didn't win overall though, he lost at QLAN2 for example.

If I was simply talking about winning tournaments then he won prior to 2004 too anyway but it isn't the point being made, the only year he won was in 2006 where he had a 100% record against the best players playing.

<< Comment #47 @ 20:19 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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vedic - Reply to #37

Who else has such a record?

<< Comment #53 @ 00:51 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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lewl - Reply to #47

if you mean 100% wins in a tournament then i think cypher did it.

<< Comment #55 @ 02:26 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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vedic - Reply to #53

So one other unconfirmed person might have the same kind of record, and you don't think he's the best?

<< Comment #58 @ 03:04 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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lewl - Reply to #55

i have not stated my opinion on this matter. i just answeared your question. and i'm now confirming that cypher didn't loose a single match at eswc 2008 masters.

<< Comment #84 @ 18:03 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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vedic - Reply to #58

Yeah, went to bed after that, so I didn't notice that you weren't him. =P

<< Comment #66 @ 08:49 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #55

I didn't suggest anyone did have such a record.

The statement was that he was the overall best quake player, but at no point could anyone claim he was the best overall player.

For someone to be considered the best overall quake player of all time I'd at least expect them to have won significant events prior to a BO1 tournament in 2004 and a BO3 during Q3's weakest period.

<< Comment #78 @ 12:52 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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vedic - Reply to #66

While the scene was less active, it was certainly at it's peak.

<< Comment #80 @ 13:02 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #78

03 and 05 were stronger years.

<< Comment #85 @ 18:04 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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vedic - Reply to #80

03, disagree. 05/06, yes.

<< Comment #23 @ 10:48 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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Ignignokt - Reply to #20

Only won because of hub tbh.

<< Comment #26 @ 10:57 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #20

gotfrag says he is "widely accepted as the best Quake3 player ever" (http://wiki.gotfrag.com/index.php/Paul_%22czm%22_Nelson)

Who are you to doubt gotfrag?

P.S.: Anyone have an idea how to make this obvious trolling attempt more subtle?

<< Comment #77 @ 12:50 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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deathinfire - Reply to #26

you could try deleting the last two lines

<< Comment #89 @ 21:26 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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lolograde ' - Reply to #20

He was the best when all the good players were off playing Q4?

And he was busy getting his Ph.D. in Mathematics from one of the most prestigious universities in the world.

<< Comment #94 @ 05:08 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #89

So?

<< Comment #132 @ 22:51 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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lolograde ' - Reply to #94

Just putting it into context. While everyone else playing 40hrs/week at q4/q3. He's busy doing other things. And still comes back to beat everyone's ass.

<< Comment #133 @ 23:21 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #132

Everyone's?

<< Comment #134 @ 23:28 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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lolograde ' - Reply to #133

Everyone that showed up at CPL Winter the year he came back to Quake.

<< Comment #142 @ 05:15 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #134

Like only two top players though, a largely inactive cooller and Jibo.

<< Comment #167 @ 04:51 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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bsk - Reply to #134

You mean all the players who hadn't played Q3 in ages and stated in interviews that they were focussing on the Quake 4 tournament that happened within weeks of the Q3 one, and just attending Q3 for the hell of it?

<< Comment #169 @ 11:56 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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lolograde ' - Reply to #167

This is serious business to you?

Everyone has excuses. It's rare to hear anyone say (after they've lost) in interviews that they practiced hard. Only a few players say so. The rest are too ego-hurt to admit to putting time/effort into trying to win and instead feign apathy or indifference to the whole thing.

Either way, you're going to believe that czm was not a good player. That being a doctoral student and living a real-life (not being a teenager with tons of free-time or being a "pro-gamer" which is very much like being a perpetual teenager), czm would be expected to do better than the others that played at CPL Winter that year (who had much more free-time to practice and compete in tournaments).

It's retarded how people in this thread are trying to say czm wasn't good.

<< Comment #170 @ 12:37 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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hnns - Reply to #169

It's retarded how people in this thread are trying to say czm wasn't good.

Who's saying that?

<< Comment #174 @ 15:41 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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lolograde ' - Reply to #170

Maybe not in those words, but there's clearly an attempt to take away czm's credibility as a top player. It seems no one remembers czm being completely unstoppable on Hub by anyone.

<< Comment #171 @ 15:08 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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bsk - Reply to #169

These interviews happened before the CPL event.

What your comment shows yet again is that it wasn't the highest level tournament, which is all we've been arguing. You can't say "LOZL CZM IS TEH OWNAEGE" based on a tournament for which nobody prepared, including him.

(I'm certainly not saying he sucks.)

<< Comment #172 @ 15:24 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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stunt.us - Reply to #171

well then how does that make it any different? If nobody was prepared and he won, what would change if EVERYONE was prepared and so was he? So czm is the best unprepared player ever to play quake then.

Edited by stunt.us at 15:24 CST, 16 February 2010

<< Comment #173 @ 15:36 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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lolograde ' - Reply to #171

It's all relative, just like stunt is saying. How can we say who is best? We say who is best by who won. Even if everyone is crap, the person who won is considered the best.

Are you going to say that Lakerman was crap because clearly the old-school skill-levels aren't nearly what they are today? That's unfair to the players to say that and it's unfair to say czm wasn't great when he won CPL Winter '06.

What are you trying to say if not that he sucks? I never said "OMG CZM THE BEST PLAYER EVER TO PLAY Q3." But you sound like you're trying to take czm's credibility away as a top player. Please inform me of a player who played Hub like czm did back in the day...

Edited by lolograde at 15:39 CST, 16 February 2010

<< Comment #181 @ 17:32 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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bsk - Reply to #173

I have nothing against czm - he's one of my favourite players. As is Fooki, but those two have nothing on Cooller/Z4/Fatal1ty in terms of achievements.

<< Comment #135 @ 03:50 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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link - Reply to #89

this angers me.. you can blame anything if you put your mind to it.

<< Comment #143 @ 11:53 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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lolograde ' - Reply to #135

What am I blaming?

<< Comment #144 @ 12:03 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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link - Reply to #143

for example, my excuse could be having to work too much otherwise i would be the best quaker who ever lived.

the circumstances doesn't matter, you don't see top athletes in other sports blaming things around them when things aren't going their way.

either way czm never said this, it's only his fan boys.

don't get me wrong though, czm is definitely one of the top quakers i know of.. but the life around him shouldn't affect how you feel about him as a quaker.

<< Comment #150 @ 12:52 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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lolograde ' - Reply to #144

I didn't say it did. iNKind was saying that other players were too busy playing q4 (e.g., Cooller) and that's why he didn't play well at CPL Winter against Czm. Hence my comment about czm with an actual life/job.

Edited by lolograde at 12:53 CST, 14 February 2010

<< Comment #151 @ 13:24 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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link - Reply to #150

i have a hard time commenting on all the posts like that in this thread. i picked yours.

<< Comment #157 @ 22:23 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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lolograde ' - Reply to #151

Sorry to make things difficult.

My opinion about certain players is divided. I highly respect the players the, although not the best and not winning everything, have a lot going on personally and still find the time to play competitively. Czm is one of those players. But I still have a great deal of respect for pure skill/talent (virtu) in players like Cypher, Av3k, Cooller (when he was younger/in his prime), and others.

<< Comment #158 @ 01:22 CST, 15 February 2010 >>

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Anonymous (72-160-134-80.dyn.centurytel.net) - Reply to #144

You dont see other Athletes making excusese because they are getting paid to do what they do and it is a respectable profession no one can really base a living off of video games, unless you live in Korea or are Fatal1ty. And the number of people that are in Korea and named Fatal1ty doing this are dwarfed by the number of real professional athletes.

So yes real life does play a much bigger role in how well you play at a tournament because believe it or not they do have to feed and house themselves and secure there future.

Additionally CZM did state that he was doing some condensed PHD program and didnt have as much time to play.

In my opinion CZM isnt the greatest dueler ever but as a quake player in general and person he is much more respectable than a majority of these kids that you see that do nothing with there live atleast this guy applied himself to something more challenging than most of use could hope to do and still compete at a top level in quake.

<< Comment #168 @ 10:27 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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link - Reply to #158

everyone has other stuff to do than games, just because you respect PHD more doesn't mean he's "excused" or whatever.
taking care of your mom, going to normal school (this also takes up a lot of time), working on the side, having a girlfriend. people can blame a million things.

<< Comment #176 @ 15:53 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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lolograde ' - Reply to #168

Getting a PhD, especially in something not rooted in intuition or logic like mathematics is, is vastly tougher than most people realize. Getting my first MS was brutal to the point that I have nothing but respect for those seeking a PhD; I've seen the work and effort that goes into it (especially at top-schools were you can't BS your way through it or find an adviser who just wants to get you out of his/her sight -- I've known some people who accomplished their MS this way). I know of several doctoral students right now that are in their offices working at 6am and don't get home until 8pm and do this 6 days a week.

It's like a shitty job with shitty pay, no chance for free-time, and you don't get paid for overtime... the gold lining though is that once you're done (if you've picked a somewhat respectable field of study), you're almost certain to get a well-paying job right out of the program. Or even better is finding a place for a post-doc and then you're sitting pretty most definitely afterwards.

<< Comment #180 @ 17:15 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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link - Reply to #176

and then things i mentioned wont even give you that, so yeah... i still dont think it should be mentioned with his accomplishments as an excuse for not winning more.

<< Comment #185 @ 18:21 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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lolograde ' - Reply to #180

I still think he was the most impressive player to watch on hub. It was the first time watching a player make 50 to 2 games against other top players. Probably one of the few players (like cooller and Zero4) that was extremely entertaining to spectate. Granted czm was pretty much all rail, though, on hub. He made impossible shots look easy.

<< Comment #191 @ 13:26 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

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link - Reply to #185

yup, i agree with all this

<< Comment #194 @ 19:14 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

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Anonymous (72-160-165-166.dyn.centurytel.net) - Reply to #185

Remember CZM was involved in the QuakeWorld community more so than his other peers at the time and hub is a remake of Aerowalk of QW fame.

@link

I have a problem with rating top tier players becuase off how much real life can effect their performances, since it isnt their job to be the best and they can only invest their free time into the game and some have more than others.

<< Comment #197 @ 10:33 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

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Jamerio : - Reply to #176

Well, becks claims to have a PHD in MATHS and PHYSICS, yet fails to recite pi beyond its 4th decimal place. Bearing in mind we had a quiz in school which required knowing pi to 8 decimal places by the age of 12 years old I find it pretty worrying!

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1840284#pid1840284

CONCLUSION:

He's a liar, but at least the silly asshole has enough sense to hide his real name from google.

Edited by Jamerio at 10:34 CST, 25 February 2010

<< Comment #198 @ 10:41 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #197

please point me to the post where I claimed that. It should be fairly difficult to find considering I never did.

And reciting numbers early in the morning may just be the only thing your math skills amount to ;)

<< Comment #199 @ 10:46 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

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Jamerio : - Reply to #198

Do you or do you not have a degree in maths or physics?

Or are you somehow trying to get me on a technicality by trying to imply that because you don't have a PHD its acceptable for someone with a math degree to fuck up a quiz question from 10 grade maths?

<< Comment #200 @ 10:59 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #199

I do not, the only moron who thinks I do is you.

If it had been a quiz I might actually have gotten it right. This however, was just a short childish reply in the morning, hardly something I'd spend more than 5 seconds on.
Or should I fear you following around my every post, desperately hoping for a small mistake? I don't think so.

Also: it's

<< Comment #206 @ 12:47 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

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crea* ' - Reply to #199

I don't want to interfere in your flamewar, just wanted to point out that a german diploma equals a master degree. A PhD equals a "doctor", short "Dr.", that is something much higher then a diploma.

<< Comment #216 @ 06:22 CST, 26 February 2010 >>

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lolograde ' - Reply to #206

It's abbreviated Latin for "Philosophy Doctor" or (more easily read in english) "Doctor of Philosophy", which means that the level of education on a particular subject by an individual has gotten to the "philosophical" level.

<< Comment #203 @ 11:43 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

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f0cus - Reply to #144

If 1st place has played quake and had no school or work for 6 months, and 2nd place practiced quake in their off time from curing cancer, then yeah, I'm giving more props to 2nd place.

suck it.

<< Comment #204 @ 11:52 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

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hnns - Reply to #203

then you're judging by something entirely different from quake abilities, and most likely you have no idea whether your criteria is correct anyway so in most cases that's a futile comparison. sure, you could place him in your top 1 as a best-busy-quake-player but for any quake ranking of meaning those sorts of things are entirely irrelevant, which is why you don't ever see any arguments like this in sports or academia.

4%

<< Comment #222 @ 10:11 CST, 2 March 2010 >>

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link - Reply to #203

then i guess we disagree.

oh did i tell you im the world best sprinter? i just dont practise much since i dont have time.

<< Comment #21 @ 09:57 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #13

So av3k and cypher were supposed to have reached their prime with 13 and 14 respectively?

Edited by becks at 10:57 CST, 11 February 2010

<< Comment #24 @ 10:52 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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nemecel - Reply to #13

You are overrating CZM there.

<< Comment #147 @ 12:20 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #13

Cypher only beat him when he was no longer playing and came back with a fraction of play time.

When CZM was at his best he could beat anyone and often did, Cypher wasn't even good enough to come close to him back then.

before getting raped by cypher czm had beaten jibo 2:0 (ztn, t4), and said that he's in good shape, if cypher beats him now, he's better than he ever was.

<< Comment #202 @ 11:28 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

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dontwantlifestopit - Reply to #13

Agree here.
CZM is the guy with the most talent certainly. He only plays a few weeks hardcore playing before tourneys and still takes the title.
He is overall the best player. Sure other people could beat him but they play for hours a day year in year out.

<< Comment #205 @ 11:54 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

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hnns - Reply to #202

one title. he practiced immensely for ESWC '08, to the point where he said in an interview he was in the best shape he ever was and that if he would get beaten that player was simply better, and he lost.

<< Comment #30 @ 12:53 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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dadS - Reply to #9

Hopefully he'd play at a decent level like he used to and put up a good fight. I also thought he seemed a pretty decent guy tbh,

<< Comment #10 @ 08:00 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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vedic

HOW CAN YOU KILL THAT WHICH HAS NOT BEEN BORN?

<< Comment #12 @ 09:16 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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ini

I MISS SK

<< Comment #25 @ 10:52 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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nemecel

If uNkind continued playing he woulda beaten the living shit out of everyone.

Edited by nemecel at 10:53 CST, 11 February 2010

7%

<< Comment #121 @ 11:22 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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tourist - Reply to #25

his 25 lg would sure own the shit out of everyone.

<< Comment #149 @ 12:31 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #121

60% rocket would

<< Comment #160 @ 11:43 CST, 15 February 2010 >>

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oreozz - Reply to #149

people dodge now

<< Comment #162 @ 12:55 CST, 15 February 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #160

and his aim would stay on the 2002 level while they improve at dodging?

<< Comment #164 @ 01:12 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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oreozz - Reply to #162

not with that retarded sens

<< Comment #190 @ 13:16 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #164

bit like k1llsen?

<< Comment #178 @ 16:09 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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ashr - Reply to #160

but QL has faster rockets and bigger splash radius. uNkind would have raped.

<< Comment #186 @ 02:04 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

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leopold ' - Reply to #178

Splash is smaller in QL

<< Comment #193 @ 14:26 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

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By

ashr - Reply to #186

really? seems bigger to me.

<< Comment #208 @ 14:32 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #193

"Officially" it's "smaller" but I don't believe it for a second, it feels significantly bigger to me.

<< Comment #210 @ 21:30 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

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ashr - Reply to #208

exactly.

<< Comment #184 @ 18:07 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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By

ini - Reply to #160

And his lg wasn't significantly worse than most players back in 2002.

<< Comment #28 @ 12:14 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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By

Anonymous (bas5-toronto01-1178065427.dsl.bell.ca)

CZM was not overrated, but was not the best in quake 3.

The best were:

1. Zero4 -> Needs to come back
2. Fatal1ty -> won't come back unless big $
3. Cooller -> Needs to win !!
4. Cypher -> Could move up
5. CZM -> Needs to come back
6. Rapha -> Could move up
7. Av3k -> Could move up
8. LeXeR -> won't come back :(
9. uNkind -> Needs to come back
10.Toxjq -> Needs to come back

<< Comment #29 @ 12:40 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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By

vedic - Reply to #28

No.

<< Comment #31 @ 13:03 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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By

becks - Reply to #29

In your case the top ten looks like this:

1. if22

?

<< Comment #32 @ 13:11 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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By

vedic - Reply to #31

cooller alltimes

1%

<< Comment #33 @ 13:26 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #32

fair enough.

<< Comment #38 @ 15:30 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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By

ini - Reply to #28

It's clearly:
Cooller/ZeRo4 (Cooller edges it though)
Fatal1ty
LeXeR/uNkind/czm
FooKi/Cypher/Rapha

<< Comment #42 @ 15:51 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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By

valvalis - Reply to #38

bah, that's just so wrong :/

<< Comment #43 @ 17:06 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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By

ini - Reply to #42

Why?

<< Comment #49 @ 22:35 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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By

Heartlesss - Reply to #43

russian fanboy

<< Comment #54 @ 02:10 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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By

becks - Reply to #49

4 Americans
3 Russians
1 Belarussian
1 Swede

Uhm, wat?

<< Comment #62 @ 04:55 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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By

Heartlesss - Reply to #54

american fanboy

<< Comment #60 @ 04:03 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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valvalis - Reply to #42

fatal1ty 3rd?
he was the best for a year maybe, when the game was young and shit... rapha is now on top for a year and a half, with todays skill level....
imo its more like this :

cooller
ZeRo4
czm/rapha
cypher/fatal1ty
uNkind/LeXeR

and wth is fooki doing there? :D

Edited by Valvalis at 04:03 CST, 12 February 2010

<< Comment #64 @ 08:42 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #60

All his tournaments were BO1 and it was early on but he was dominant and did show exceptional skill. It's not easy to pickup a new game and be the best.

qlr/zero4 played in the best BO3 tournaments when the game was active/popular.

czm won one BO1 tournament (losing to an inactive zero4) and a BO3 when the game was at its least active, I don't think that puts him above uNkind/LeXeR who won the most important events in 2002 when Q3 was king.

Rapha has been dominant in QL but the original post said Q3 so that's why he's at the bottom with Cypher and FooKi :)

FooKi won QLAN2 vs czm/z4muz/cooller/fox/toxic/morfez/someothers. QLAN2 > CPL 06 for example so I think it's only fair :D

<< Comment #67 @ 08:59 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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valvalis - Reply to #64

then rapha shouldn't be there at all, cause he won only one tourney...

after czm won cpl, he owned cooller/fox/zero4 in a big fashion on E3 06 iirc, that should put him right on top behind cooller/z4

<< Comment #68 @ 09:08 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #67

E3 was a showmatch event in a non-tournament environment and just shouldn't count at all as it wasn't even remotely serious.

The thing is, I'm acknowledging that the 2008 tournaments were not only very high skilled but also used a good tournament structure and were BO3. Hence Rapha is on the same level as FooKi.

Cypher won MoP and GameGune? Rapha ESWC 08? were there any other q3 events?

Perhaps Cypher should be placed above them but below czm/lexer/unkind though.

<< Comment #69 @ 09:14 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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valvalis - Reply to #68

yeah, I'm aware they were showmatches, but the score difference was massive...

avek won gamegune, cypher won masters of paris and world finals, rapha won masters of athens

unkind won wcg and lexer quakecon, so I think cypher should be above them with 2 major wins (and don't forget the shitload of online tourneys he won)

<< Comment #70 @ 09:20 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #69

I'm not counting anything online, or any non-tournament, it's simply not a fair environment from which to base it on when there have been plenty of LAN tournaments.

WCG 02 & Quakecon 02 were the biggest tournaments of the year when Q3 was still one of the most important online games around and the scene hadn't died yet.

I'll revise it nonetheless:
Cooller/ZeRo4
Fatal1ty
uNkind/LeXeR/czm
Cypher
av3k/Rapha/FooKi

:P

<< Comment #71 @ 09:37 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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valvalis - Reply to #70

well if you count only major tourney wins, then your list is probably right...

But if you think about amount of time, when each of them was considered no 1 (depending on lan/online/whatever other performances), it's gonna be different.

Were lexer, avek or fooki ever thought of as world's best players in their time? :)

Edited by Valvalis at 09:38 CST, 12 February 2010

<< Comment #72 @ 09:48 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #71

LeXeR and uNkind were joint in 2002 :)

Only Fatal1ty/ZeRo4/Cooller can claim that kinda title individually imo :D

<< Comment #75 @ 10:12 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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valvalis - Reply to #72

unkind > lexer a little I think

cypher maybe can as well

<< Comment #82 @ 13:31 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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By $\0/$ fragerr - Reply to #75

a little I think
n1 joke

<< Comment #92 @ 02:24 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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By

valvalis - Reply to #82

what?

<< Comment #148 @ 12:22 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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By

Lethe - Reply to #70

av3k/Rapha/FooKi

fooki as good as rapha? seriously...

<< Comment #152 @ 13:32 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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By

ini - Reply to #148

It's not an assessment of pure skill, besides FooKi was awesome in 2004.

<< Comment #96 @ 05:18 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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ashr - Reply to #64

QLAN 2 was pretty shit tbh. iirc, players were made to play way past midnight, when they actually could have been sleeping to get in proper shape for the next day. didn't z4muz even concede due to fatigue or something? fooki was good but i don't think he would have won if the tournament was organized more professionally and players were made to play at sane hours. many people play like shit when they're sleepy.

<< Comment #101 @ 06:57 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #96

Everyone plays worse when they are sleepy, or does FooKi have super powers?

He played amazing at ESWC 2004 too.

<< Comment #104 @ 07:51 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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Anonymous (bas5-toronto01-1178065093.dsl.bell.ca) - Reply to #101

Fooki is good but I think spartie is better. The list of Swedish duelers is as follows.

1. ToxJQ (godly aim, slightly dumber than fox)
2. Fox (smarter than tox, but less stable aim)
3. Spartie (not enough aim IMO)
4. Z4MuZ (not enough brain, but nice aim/movement)
5. Fooki (not enough mental toughness, needs confidence)

<< Comment #106 @ 08:07 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #104

Fox
Spartie
z4muz
FooKi

No mental toughness, needs lots of confidence etc. Must be some kinda Swedish trait. I'd also say that Fox's smart play is why he loses, he's "perfect smart" aka predictable, always doing the "perfect" thing.

FooKi is in the list because he won a big Q3 event, the others didn't (Lakerman did? but I dunno much about him so...).

<< Comment #154 @ 15:34 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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dadS - Reply to #106

I'd also say that Fox's smart play is why he loses, he's "perfect smart" aka predictable, always doing the "perfect" thing.

This is so true - I'd imagine it's hard to a style you've perfected and mix things up but if he keeps playing the 'perfect style' he'll keep getting the same results.

I'd hate it if he became the Jimmy White of quake.

Edited by dadS at 15:36 CST, 14 February 2010

<< Comment #153 @ 14:08 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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lizahd - Reply to #104

Aim & Treble > all lulz

<< Comment #115 @ 10:10 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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By

ashr - Reply to #101

the degree to which sleep affects different people can vary a lot.

<< Comment #122 @ 13:07 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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By

ini - Reply to #115

So why try and use that as a reason?

Maybe FooKi was even more affected but prevailed through it etc.

It was a good event with many top duelers and FooKi came out on top.

<< Comment #179 @ 16:22 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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ashr - Reply to #122

just that they all had to fight against unnecessary physical and mental stress. they weren't playing at their best, like at that ESWC with shitty monitors.

fooki was definitely a top player in 2004 but i think the results would have been different if z4muz could play on.

also one tournament win isn't saying much. cypher has more and av3k has been more consistent i think.

<< Comment #182 @ 17:54 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #179

I think he didn't lose at ESWC 2004 (at the very least he won with team Sweden)?

Anyway I placed Cypher above him in the end anyway, but av3k hasn't been more consistent in Q3 by a longshot, in fact overall he's been largely unimpressive bar GameGune (q4/ql is a different matter).

<< Comment #211 @ 22:07 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

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Thorin - Reply to #101

Everyone plays worse when they are sleepy, or does FooKi have super powers?

lol, that isn't logical. Everyone may play worse but that doesn't mean they all play equally worse. There are a ton of factors you could consider which would make fatigue not uniform in its effect across the board.

Even purely staying within the server you could compare the differenct effect slightly slower reflexes or a more prone to be confused mind would have on different play styles etc. How it would affect certain maps which are the strengths or weaknesses of the players in question. The list goes on and on.

<< Comment #215 @ 03:21 CST, 26 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #211

But we can't tell really, we can only make assumptions which don't really have much place in here.

<< Comment #146 @ 12:17 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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By

Lethe - Reply to #28

you nailed it you good canadian man

<< Comment #155 @ 15:59 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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By

[mash] - Reply to #146

y agree with gillz, y?

<< Comment #161 @ 11:57 CST, 15 February 2010 >>

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By

Lethe - Reply to #155

thats not gillz ffs?

<< Comment #44 @ 17:24 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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By

Slasher

Talked to Paul yesterday about playing in the SIlent Gamers tournament but he doesn't have an adequate compuer or internet connection right now to play. Also pretty busy with school and life. But, he did say he was itching to play, I say there's a decent chance of seeing him compete in the upcoming season (next ESL, MLG, QuakeCon, etc)

19%

<< Comment #45 @ 18:20 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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By

dadS - Reply to #44

Be great to see him play but in a way I'd hate to see him get rolled all the time because he can't put the time in.

<< Comment #51 @ 22:42 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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By

Nukm - Reply to #44

mlg and ql?

<< Comment #63 @ 04:56 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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By

Heartlesss - Reply to #44

MLG ?

<< Comment #93 @ 04:55 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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By

Lorfa ' - Reply to #44

ask him if c_z_m is an account of his, my head is still spinning from that clan arena match on asylum

<< Comment #136 @ 04:03 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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Heartlesss - Reply to #93

yes it's him.

look at his friends etc.

and also, zero4 seems to be "practicing" with rapha... He played him 2 days ago...

<< Comment #156 @ 16:27 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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Lorfa ' - Reply to #136

Well I didn't find the friends list all that conclusive when I looked at it. I talked to some of the people on the list and they just ok'd the friend invite request without thinking twice about it. This was quite some time ago, was hoping slasher would have a confirmation from paul himself.

<< Comment #100 @ 06:33 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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By

SyXz - Reply to #44

mlg?

<< Comment #145 @ 12:14 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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By

Lethe - Reply to #44

goodnewsbringer!

<< Comment #46 @ 20:11 CST, 11 February 2010 >>

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By

Anonymous (c-24-10-14-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)

i think he was the best overall quake 3 player. he wasn't the very best as a 1v1 player which you guys seem to be focusing on only. he was mainly a tdm player.

<< Comment #56 @ 02:34 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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Raist - Reply to #46

Agreed, thats what I always liked about czm, a brilliant all around player.

<< Comment #61 @ 04:52 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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By

butchji - Reply to #46

+ FFA! :D

Edited by butchji at 04:52 CST, 12 February 2010

<< Comment #65 @ 08:43 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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By

ini - Reply to #46

Fox is the best all round Q3 player.

<< Comment #74 @ 10:04 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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By

stunt.us - Reply to #65

Fox can't win a duel tournament. Czm could win a TDM tournament if he played in europe where there is a scene. Oh ya Czm won a ctf lan title with c9 what has fox won in ctf nothing.

<< Comment #76 @ 10:30 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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By

timmah - Reply to #74

respect

<< Comment #79 @ 13:01 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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By

ini - Reply to #74

Best all rounder doesn't have to win anything in particular, just be amongst the best consistently at all modes over a long period of time.

Fox is exceptional at all modes: 1vs1/TDM/2vs2/CTF/CA

Fox's TDM/2vs2 wins dwarf anything czm can throw at him in regards to those modes.

You can't just assume czm would have won a TDM tournament if he played in Europe either, that's a ridiculous thing to assume...

I'm sure fox would have won a CTF tournament if he had played with C9...

10%

<< Comment #83 @ 15:41 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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stunt.us - Reply to #79

No.

<< Comment #90 @ 22:14 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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butchji - Reply to #79

Sorry but: toxic > fox

always.

<< Comment #91 @ 02:02 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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By

valvalis - Reply to #90

I saw him on a server yesterday, and he said fox asked him to play esl 4x4 with him, so he will maybe play :p

<< Comment #137 @ 04:05 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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Heartlesss - Reply to #91

so, how is toxjq's aim compared to the regular "high to top" skilled guys ?

<< Comment #140 @ 04:16 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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valvalis - Reply to #137

well from what I've seen when I was speccing, he's still the best aimer in the world :)

Edited by Valvalis at 04:17 CST, 14 February 2010

<< Comment #141 @ 04:31 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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Heartlesss - Reply to #140

nice

<< Comment #177 @ 16:00 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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ashr - Reply to #137

it's tox. the only guy who can even make "all aim no brain" so incredibly beautiful to watch. out of position, under pressure, no matter. if he sees you, he hits you.

Edited by ashr at 16:01 CST, 16 February 2010

<< Comment #187 @ 02:08 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

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leopold ' - Reply to #177

yes, his incredible execution speed made osp look like cpm in TDM sometimes:D

<< Comment #188 @ 02:12 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #177

this raises a question:

If you get caught and still deal more damage than your opponent, are you really out of position?

<< Comment #192 @ 14:26 CST, 17 February 2010 >>

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ashr - Reply to #188

anyone else would be "out of position"

<< Comment #195 @ 00:57 CST, 18 February 2010 >>

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By

becks - Reply to #192

I know.

It was a philosophical question ;)

<< Comment #95 @ 05:09 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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By

ini - Reply to #90

Which EC did toxic win before fox?

<< Comment #98 @ 05:23 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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butchji - Reply to #95

I do not care seriously. (EC is prolly some team mode then, so toxic could've been ridiculously awesome while his team mates sucked big time - for me fox and tox played together all the time anyway I don't know what they were doing before iCE cLIMBERS)

<< Comment #102 @ 06:58 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #98

So how is Toxic the best overall Q3 player?

Did nothing in duel, less in CTF, less in TDM and less in 2vs2.

<< Comment #103 @ 07:27 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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butchji - Reply to #102

He was and is simply the better player. I have no database to show his awesome achievements and I don't really care.

<< Comment #105 @ 08:03 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #103

Oh right, so he's just better?

In that case, the best player ever is Jr404, I've no way to show how, he just is.

<< Comment #110 @ 09:56 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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butchji - Reply to #105

Watch duels between toxic and fox. :P Watch 2v2 with toxic and fox. :)

<< Comment #113 @ 10:05 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #110

Q3 = Fox wins them all.

Watch fox + gopher vs stelam + zyz (> qlr+Jibo)

<< Comment #201 @ 11:26 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

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rockz ' - Reply to #113

quakecon, hub?

<< Comment #207 @ 14:26 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

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By

ini - Reply to #201

It was dm6 and part of a multi-quake game.

BO3 Q3 duels fox beat tox.

<< Comment #220 @ 16:51 CST, 28 February 2010 >>

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rockz ' - Reply to #207

"Q3 = Fox wins them all."

think about

<< Comment #221 @ 06:04 CST, 1 March 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #220

It wasn't a Q3 match that he lost.

<< Comment #107 @ 08:09 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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By

[mash] - Reply to #103

So, it's liek ... your opinion?

<< Comment #108 @ 09:56 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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butchji - Reply to #107

Why not? In his opinion fox is the best Q3 playerwhereas others say czm. Of course everyone states his opinion.

<< Comment #109 @ 09:56 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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[mash] - Reply to #108

You present it as a fact.

<< Comment #111 @ 09:57 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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butchji - Reply to #109

Well everyone who isn't completely blind can recognize it. =)

<< Comment #112 @ 09:58 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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[mash] - Reply to #111

No.

<< Comment #116 @ 10:10 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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By

hnns - Reply to #111

They were pretty much equals in tdm but fox has achieved far more in 1on1. Tox went off to play Q4 as fox got more into Q3 1on1.

<< Comment #118 @ 10:29 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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butchji - Reply to #116

So no one obviously cares what fox did after toxic went to Q4, no? (When we compare them)

<< Comment #119 @ 10:42 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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By

hnns - Reply to #118

I don't think either player took 1on1 that seriously when they were both active in Q3 and since we only have fox's result to speak of his Q3 career was more impressive overall. Maybe toxic could've done better but at the end of the day he didn't.

<< Comment #124 @ 13:08 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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By

ini - Reply to #118

Why does Q4 have any bearing on Q3?

<< Comment #130 @ 15:05 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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By

butchji - Reply to #124

? I don't care about Q4

<< Comment #183 @ 18:01 CST, 16 February 2010 >>

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By

calleking - Reply to #130

Yes, you do.

<< Comment #128 @ 14:50 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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By

erok - Reply to #116

fox took part in almost every single tournament toxic did in q4...

<< Comment #129 @ 14:55 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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hnns - Reply to #128

yeah, we're talking q3 exclusively.

<< Comment #114 @ 10:06 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #109

Everyone who isn't a total weak minded moron should present their opinion as fact.

<< Comment #117 @ 10:19 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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micke - Reply to #114

not subjective opinions

<< Comment #123 @ 13:07 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #117

If you believe something why pander to other peoples opinions so much?

If the person is stupid enough to not realise it's your opinion they shouldn't even be discussing subjective issues in the first place.

<< Comment #126 @ 14:25 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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yikes - Reply to #102

So how is Toxic the best overall Q3 player?

Did nothing in duel, less in CTF, less in TDM and less in 2vs2.

lolwut

<< Comment #127 @ 14:43 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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deathinfire - Reply to #126

less than fox, yes.

<< Comment #97 @ 05:21 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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ashr - Reply to #79

yeah fox.

<< Comment #212 @ 22:09 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

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Thorin - Reply to #79

fox played with at least two of the greatest TDM players of all time. Who did czm play with? lol

<< Comment #81 @ 13:24 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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hnns - Reply to #74

I'm sure Thresh would've won all Q3 tournaments if he played them, therefore, Thresh is the best Q3 player alltimes.

<< Comment #87 @ 20:00 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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Liam - Reply to #74

For the last time: nobody gives a fuck about CTF.

<< Comment #120 @ 11:14 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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stunt.us - Reply to #87

More do than TDM. Maybe you don't because you're fat and you can't run.

<< Comment #125 @ 13:58 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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Liam - Reply to #120

it's a game nerd

<< Comment #131 @ 18:36 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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stunt.us - Reply to #125

No it isn't

<< Comment #138 @ 04:09 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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Heartlesss - Reply to #87

in america yeah ;P

<< Comment #73 @ 09:56 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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By

gSTRUCTOR '

I miss him too =(

To the rest, please stop rating players, its getting old.

<< Comment #86 @ 19:25 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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By

skint

what you guys bitching about

coollers the best player ever!

<< Comment #88 @ 20:39 CST, 12 February 2010 >>

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By

mbc

they better add hub by the time he returns

<< Comment #163 @ 17:00 CST, 15 February 2010 >>

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By

Jalle - Reply to #88

I don't mid if they add it even earlier!

<< Comment #99 @ 06:02 CST, 13 February 2010 >>

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By

koOma

I'm hung over.. It's not pleasant

<< Comment #139 @ 04:10 CST, 14 February 2010 >>

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By

Heartlesss

i miss czm too

<< Comment #159 @ 02:27 CST, 15 February 2010 >>

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By

me

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=H3OVWE90

<< Comment #209 @ 14:57 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

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By

wocK_

he RENAMED TO LAVA

<< Comment #213 @ 22:12 CST, 25 February 2010 >>

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By

Thorin

czm was most the entertaining Q3 TDM player ever for me. proZaC was a monster in his prime but so many times I've seen czm play absolutely incredibly for extended stretches.

Edited by Thorin at 22:13 CST, 25 February 2010

<< Comment #217 @ 06:49 CST, 26 February 2010 >>

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By

bl4ze

czm is 1111111111111

<< Comment #218 @ 06:49 CST, 26 February 2010 >>

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By

dansen

gaythread