I can't speak for the community so I'll speak for myself : I didn't play Q3 in the first place. And I don't really know why I would move there today. I can already get my daily dose of Quake everyday...

pple like you should have stayed at qlforums...

I fail to see your point. I answered the question honestly. Or is the kind of hostility you display the expected behaviour of a ESR user, making me undesired?

you didnt answer anything! read the thread again. You just give your stupid opinion without any relation to the topic.

e.g I dont know videogames. But I know how to play chess. Im happy as long as I can play daily chess.

-.-

There are like a dozen questions in his post. One of the things he wonders is if why people aren't moving to Q3 or OA. My answer to that is that me, as well as many other players undoubtedly, don't even see why they should do that since QL fulfills their needs.

Welcome to the internet m8 :)

pple like you should have stayed at their mothers wound...

womb... dumb sh*t.

idunno, axewound kinda works

womb*

OA afaik was never promoted / marketed too well as anything other than a cheap looking quake3 knockoff which is why it never took off to begin with so i definitely wouldnt say OA > Q3.

Q3 is the superior game out of the bunch, but its time is over and no one is interested in playing it anymore. its not new or fresh so its not something that would attract newbs. so unless someone wants to invest their time & money into bringing it back (which would mean alot of creative marketing/advertising for tourneys/leagues, and alot of money needed for servers) then i dont see it making a comeback

I'm just saying, why did the quake community ever decide to start playing QL instead of Q3? Wasn't this a mistake? Shouldn't people go back to playing the more open game (OA>Q3>QL?)? If so, is there any practical way to transition the community?

There was a lot of discussion over this before the game went live, and I think gillz had the best suggestion when he said that QL could be a great way to get new players into the game, while having the competitive/hardcore stick with Q3.

With all the fighting between the small differences that CPMA/VQ3 brought, you would have expected the general community to be even more upset with the changes in QL, but it turns out that most of them only hated on CPMA because of CPM.

The move was a mistake, because now the community is completely reliant on id, and id is proving to be incapable of handling the job. I don't think anything could convince people to switch back, as the community has a general "you first" mentality, that leads to nothing ever getting done. If QL shuts down, they won't really have a choice, but I think most people would probably move on at that point.

Quake Live is centralised, community all in the one area, you can log in from anywhere and get the same type of game from anywhere. You can download Quake Live and play whatever mod is available without any hassles and see local games quickly.

Centralisation is the biggest positive about Quake Live compared to Quake 3.

not like centralisation cant be accomplished through q3. someone will just need to pay for the servers & the website to draw people in lol.

You mean like this.. http://fraglove.com/ ?

It failed, no one really using it, not officially promoted by idsoftware blah blah blah.

heh, honestly i would be interested in it if i saw that it was being actively developed and that there were some nearby servers i could play on. the website doesnt really stand out at all..it looks too much like a QL knockoff and people are gonna notice and look at it just like that.

and last time i tried it i only saw a bunch of euro servers. also it just seems like the guy behind it gave up on the entire idea anyways lol.

someone needs to create something completely fresh that will really draw people in

edit:yeah, just went on the site, all i see are france servers, whcih will suck for anyone outside that region.

someone needs to create something completely fresh that will really draw people in

sounds like a plan!

Sounds like the job for A DEVELOPER NOT TAINTED BY THE BULLSHIT MINDSET SLAVING TO THE HALO/BATTLEFIELD DEMOGRAPHIC THAT IS CAPABLE OF CREATING AN OLDSCHOOL DM GAME THAT IS STILL VIABLE AND ATTRACTIVE TO THE SAME DEMOGRAPHIC BUT AT THE SAME TIME CAN PLEASE THE OLDSCHOOL CROWD AND CAN SUCCESSFULLY MARKET THAT GAME USING A SANE AND STABLE BUSINESS MODEL WITHIN A CENTRALISED SYSTEM.

ezpz

Unreal Tournament
versus
Quake Arena

UT!

this

Centralisation is the biggest positive about Quake Live compared to Quake 3.

Also the biggest negative.

its only negative because they're doing it wrong / dont care. they couldve easily made something huge with the centralization aspect of QL if they wanted too. so many ideas were thrown at them and ignored countless times over the years.

It's only negative because of the stats and everything that stats imply.

It's negative because it doesn't has lan support, so you can't go to a local netcafe and have some matches with real life people (who the fuck has fun playing Quake alone at home anymore anyway).

It also sucks that you have to pay to play maps that you can play freely on Q3, no custom content etc.

People are stupid. That's more or less the answer to everything.

"By Canada-Ontario KittenIgnition
People are stupid. That's more or less the answer to everything"

You're saying you're stupid?

I won't deny that I do a lot of stupid.

You are stupid.

Can't deny that either.

You're a pretty cool guy. I plussed you so it must be true.

nice plus by your alias :P

It's kind of sad, because at least when Quake 4 died, there was a Quake 3 community to fall back on. With Quake Live, everyone moved, and left Quake 3 for dead. So, now there's really nothing. Some QW, small Q3 community, that's really about it. I wish there were people who stuck around in Q3, so we could go back and play. But it's over :(

time for a new game bro. time for a new game...

FUCK you.

uh..fuck you too faggot fuck

There's actually a highly active Quake 2 community to "fallback" on. In fact it is more active than Q3 and QW today - and you have plenty of choices. You can play just the classic DM maps, or DM + SP + top custom maps (vanilla), a larger selection of custom maps on mutant, and some CTF action on the ACME servers with updated clients for an enhanced experience. Everyone is typically quite friendly and despite what many people say, it's not any less challenging than the other Quakes.

yea but q2 sucks :)

how dare you.

many many many many pluses I shall give to you sir

QL hasn't died yet. We'll see what happens when it does.

i wouldn't say that, pickups still exist, but yeah, no random pubs anymore, except for insta, or excessive i guess, no ra3 pub anymore either

I endorse Quakelivetm.

Because most people are tolerant to tiny insignificant differences and can adapt to little changes without thinking "WTF IS THIS SHIT ITS NOT THE SAME THEREFORE ITS CRAP".
For majority of people, Quake 3 is not a better game. Also, most people couldn't care less about new/user-generated/community content, they just want to play duels on ztn.

> duels on ztn
this

osp with cpma netcode - no xerp though. that would draw me in. but I aint going back to a game where you are forced to use netsettings that make everything warp.

then again, railing in ql feels just wrong.

QL is so far ahead of Q3 already, and is just a rounder product overall.

oh thats why QL is still trying to catch up with CPMA with each update right?

OSP had flaws in movement physics(stairs...) and no unlagged netcode and CPMA allowed rediculous hit percentages with LG, making the game very one sided.

ql has xerp forced on. id just reduced lg damage to adjust for it. people are still hitting the same percentages.

which is the right way(c) to do it

cpma vq3 damages are the same as vanilla quake 3. the hitscan weapons in the vanilla game are broken with proper netcode and no balancing. it couldn't be called "vq3" if the cpma dev team altered the damages, could it?

cpma vq3 shouldnt get a bad rap about being imbalanced when it simply revealed the flaws of the vanilla game.

also it's not like the cpma dev team didn't try to make other modes that separated themselves from vanilla and addressed those issues... the community chose to stay with the same gametype for competitive play

i agree with all of the above

cq3 is the cpma devs answer to vq3s flaws, but noone played that. it is similar to ql tho.

it also answers many questions no one even asked.

That's not a flaw, it's just different. You can move up stairs quickly in osp, it just takes more skill. QL is watered down.

I've tried this already, it didn't work.

As for Q3 vs QL, there's no reason really. Its a cyclical thing where everyone plays Quakelive because everyone plays Quakelive. I don't get it, but I've at least given up trying to.

As for OpenArena, the base game is actually fucking horrible. The developers see it as a very casual game, and thus do not and will not ever include things like forcemodels, brightskins, etc. Most of the models look like dogshit as well. When I played for a while I could never tell if I was holding a rocket launcher or a fucking vacuum cleaner. All the player models are either tiny and hard to see, or they're big amorphous blobs that don't look like anything. There's one that kind of looks like Lrrr, Ruler of the Planet Omicron Persei 8 but that's about it.

"I don't get it, but I've at least given up trying to."

What's not to get? QuakeLive provides convenience, consolidation and constant development and improvement with actual funds and infrastructure of a game developer behind it. Nothing else does. How is this not obvious?

Competitive gaming, unlike single-player, is a perfect fit for the subscription model, where a game is a rolling release with constant improvements and the key to usability is a unified, consistent interface.

i agree with the theory of what ur saying. is it convenient? yes. does consolidation have value? yes. constant development? yea sure if the rate of development was good. not so much if we are still only catching up with what was state of the art in cpma from like 2 years ago.

does the subscription model work for a dm game? yea sure if ur constantly adding features and content. is id doing that? erm no.

ql is great if all u want to do is play a quick vq3 style duel/ctf/tdm/ca. but to me one of the greatest reasons i loved q3 was the variety of experiences to be had. i know theyre almost forgotten here on esr but what about the people who dont play vq3 or cpm? what about the defrag community? the uft community? folks who played whacky mods like excessive plus (which had a community of significant size btw).

the centralized model wouldve worked if id did a competent job of addressing all these issues. but even in an area fundamental to the experience like the map pool, ql is still far behind q3 (except maybe in duel).

Your tone is confusing, like you're trying to disagree, but just elaborating. Of course, the centralization works for one game only, that would be the 'center'. UTF and all other full conversions are only possible with q3 SDK and can't be 'connected'. You can see that even PQL is 'untracked' because obviously the weapon statistics wouldn't make any sense if they were combined.

that was my point. if ur happy with just certain aspects of the game then fine. for me (and a lot of other people i suspect), the parts missing were also core aspects of q3. for instance, whats stopping id from adding something similar to defrag?

(ps: have we devolved to a point where my only choices are to agree or disagree with you? )

you're saying you like q3, and describing the advantages of QL. you're not "missing" anything in QL, you just like Q3. what's stopping them from addeing defrag is probably the fact that there is already defrag q3, and defrag is not multiplayer. i suggested a 'learning' mode for QL, but should only be added if it improves QL multiplayer.

What's your definition of multiplayer?

http://www.q3df.org/server

it's not really mine: multiple players interacting with each other.

whats "interacting" with each other? ur somehow saying a bunch of defrag players playing a trick map is not interaction. that seems totally arbitrary.

if they do not affect each others scores, they do not interact with each other. defrag revolves around a player primarily interacting with the map, any coop is secondary to that core idea.

you are aware there's team tricking in defrag?

not to say i disagree with you since defraggers are probably like 1% of ql's population (yes, made up statistic), but still.

you are simply twisting words around. subjectively defining anything community made in q3 as being outside of the core game. clearly id doesnt think so since they added things like pql and freeze tag and continue to work on different team modes which were not originally present in baseq3.

in Q3, freeze tag, cpma, etc, are 'mods', they are a modification of the entire quake 3 client game code and not related or connected to the baseq3 client game binary.

id are able to integrate these as modes of play within the existing map in a 'modular' fashion. for example pql is a new set of physics variables, freezetag is a diffrent game ruleset, and these can be combined. they are integrated into one game the way only id can do it, its the same game code.

defrag is the single best resource for improving movement. would be an obvious choice to include something like it (call it learning mode or whatever) to ease newbs into the q3 movement system without having the pressure of learning it on the fly in a dm setting.

if its challenge courses that teach you things that directly apply to navigating ztn and making the dm6 bridge jump, or running a ctf flag, sure. if it's extremely big maps where you have to rocket jump five ways, absolutely not.

FYI, PQL is tracked and ranked by default.

FYI, you're replying to a post made in February

Erm... There's always a time for nitpicking! Woops.

QL needs to sell hats.

underwear with a rocket launcher on the crotch.

would buy

wear it like a hat though.

Base game maybe, but mods are available, i.e. cpma is playable with just a few installation tweaks.

QL is a good evolutionary improvement over Q3 and vanilla Q3 version of CPMA. OAs free content is godawful, and it doesn't have even a fraction of the competitive features or focus of the QL. so, QL > Q3 > * > OA

QL is a good evolutionary improvement over Q3 and vanilla Q3 version of CPMA.

i cant see how anyone would consider this game an improvement over q3 lol u sounding like cooloutac right about now saying dumb shit like that. QL is still no where near as good as CPMA or OSP and add to the fact that we cant even play the maps that we grew to enjoy and love over the years. if the q3 scene was still alive and poppin no one in their right minds would choose ql over q3. name one improvement over q3 that ql does better? i bet you cant cause this game is a fucking failure and has been from the start. what u gonna say widescreen? postprocessing / bloom? some random shit that hardly matters? someone could easily hack support for that into q3 if there was a demand for it so thats far from an "evolutionary improvement" and nothing about ql encourages competitive play at all. the only reason QL is being tolerated/played right now is cause unlike q3 its receiving a steady stream of traffic / exposure of newbs to its website.

name one improvement over q3 that ql does better?

-netcode
-movement physics(IMHO)
-weapon balance

and then the whole website stuff.

lol ur an idiot, just google youtube or browse the QL/ESR forums for complaints on how shitty the netcode and movement/weapon balance is, i wont even bother explaining how worse all of those points are in QL compare to q3.

the "website stuff" doesnt really count as thats not part of the actual gameplay. q3 is still the better game. no one would bother playing QL without centralization/website port, it wouldve died quicker than rage.

QuakeLive mixed a lot of things in. I really like this game due to it the balance. I think that to win a big tournament you should to use all of the aspects perfectly: timing, aim, dodging, movement, positioning, logical adaptation in-game etc.

Guess who said that. Or google :))

what the fuck does that have to do with anything fanboy? doesnt change the fact that the overall game is still garbage. how many major q3 tourneys/leagues has their been compare to ql? my point exactly. this game is pretty much on its last leg and its only been 2-3 years out of public beta. fucking pathetic. q3>ql anyday and like i said anyone who considers this poor excuse for a game an improvement over q3 is just fooling themselves

would your opinion change if QL had every major q3 mod and map? (cpm, ra3, osp, etc.)

nope, that wouldnt change a thing. the game would still be just as shitty since its ran by idiots who would most likely continue to split the community even further and make half of that content unplayable (like theyre doing with premium maps now)

You could try being less mad.
Just gotta say that comparing the success of Q3 and QL in the competitive world is extremely unfair. The situations aren't the same at all. Unless you know of a parallel universe where they re-realeased Q3 instead of QL...

It might make you madder, but I have to add this : the tier system is a great advantage of QL over Q3. It could be done way better, but the current implementation still does the trick well enough. Without it, I'm sure there would have been a lot less players today, if QL still existed at all.

Well you can't point people to random complaint threads and ignore the opinion of the best quake live dueler (with rapha) and former Q3 god cypher? How does that make sense.

He's a retard. Simple but true answer :P

lol ur an idiot, just google youtube or browse the QL/ESR forums for complaints on how much better the netcode and movement/weapon balance is, i wont even bother explaining how much better all of those points are in QL compare to q3.

Implying netcode was changed in a meaningful way. Well, I guess cg_predictlocalrailshots is a good way to fool the fools.

>Improved physics
>Improved

lolololol

QL improves on Q3 in terms of weapon balance and physics, the base ruleset. CPMA could not touch this, because then it would not be vq3, so VQ3 turned into LG fest with all improvements in the netcode and input hardware. Really, this is a fact, if you don't agree, you're not worth conversing with, don't bother replying.

untrue. cq3 existed before ql. its just that the vq3 community didnt want to try anything new at that point simply because they hated the cpma dev team. its odd how all of a sudden everyone was fine with the changes id made with ql when most of them originated with cq3. but anyways.

cq3 did other unnecessary stuff, inspired by Q1, that didn't make it an evolutionary step but a break.

like what? tiered armor?

i don't even remember all the issues, one of them was weapon properties and movement. that actually underscores another problem with 'cq3', it was a potential radical change any version.

state the issues clearly or dont bring it up. most of these "radical" weapon changes that cq3 brought about are what you see in ql - faster rl, removing the ridiculous lg lock effect (fuck forgot what it was called) and nerfing lg damage, faster pg, removing randomness on sg spread, nerfing mg, nerfing rg. why is it radical when the cpma team did it and totally acceptable when id does it in ql?

i believe as it stands now the only major thing that separates ql gameplay from cq3 is crouchsliding. not entirely sure but i think they might have removed that too. and cq3 movement minus crouch sliding is more or less the same as ql movement i think.

ps: accidentally +d you lols.

i stated the issues with cq3 clearly enough. cq3 changed the game in ways no one wanted to change vq3 and wasn't even stable or 'finished'. if you can't agree with these basic principles because I don't specifically say it made SG way too overpowered and RL too fast while fucking up the movement in 10 different ways, you should find another quire to preach to.

no u didnt. u "stated" that somehow cq3 was q1 inspired (compared to cpm it has almost no q1 elements), and that the weapons and movement were botched. cq3 and ql are practically the same in weapon behavior compared to the differences between say vq3 and cpm.

honestly im beginning to think u have no idea what cq3 was/is. from its very inception it was the compromise that the dev team had long tried to avoid.

anyway i guess this isnt going anywhere other than to affirm ur status as master side-stepper.

honestly im beginning to think u have no idea what cq3 was/is.

lol. yeah, I guess it's possible I'm going crazy here, as I remember playing cq3 on dm1 conversion, with centered RL more than 7 years ago.

yet, it's quite irrelevant. i'm not side-stepping anything. the fact is cq3 changed things that no one wanted to change, multiple(if not all) weapon properties, movement. armor system. also qrealka was given free reign over the mode, and he kept making big changes with every version and grew to despise vq3 game-mode itself. the only problems that needed to be fixed with vq3 was the slightly over-powered instant hit weapons and and the jump height should have been boosted a few units. that's all everyone ever wanted. cq3 is what no one ever wanted.

Well the problem with vq3 in cpma is the vq3 community wouldnt accept changes to the base rules thats the only reason LG was a problem, in promode lg isnt a problem

yes, with good and understandable reason, because that would make the mod an arbiter on the 'base' ruleset. the right way to have gone about it would have been to add a cvar for the lg damage, like when OSP added cvar for MG. then it simply becomes a tournament rule. the true issue seems to have been the view that any vq3 specific additions to CPMA would be pointless as everyone not happy with vq3 should just switch to cpm, and there was absolutely no good will for meeting the vq3 community half-way.

this is more or less the point. people didnt reject cq3 because of any objections to gameplay. i understand that the cpma dev team's attitude towards the vq3 community was definitely not the best but the community itself was largely responsible for it.

its quite baffling in hind sight. its fine to say the vq3 players didnt want the cpma dev team to be arbiters of what the best modification to vq3 gameplay would be, but why was it suddenly ok for id software to do the same thing? it isnt like id listen to the community any more than the cpma dev team did. theres significantly less feedback effect in ql imo. with cpma atleast the dev team would give you what they thought were good reasons before rejecting ur suggestions. with id software its more or less a black box where suggestions go in and mostly nothing ever comes out.

people didnt reject cq3 because of any objections to gameplay.

they didn't even bother to try it before being able to reject because it clearly positioned itself as a different game based on q1(classic). it's not a 'fixed vq3', its a different game, from start. telling people to play cq3 instead of vq3 is just like telling people to play cpm, and cpm would be more preferable.

where are you getting this from? honestly. the whole idea with cq3 was that since the vq3 base wouldnt allow any changes to their gameplay, cq3 would be the dev teams attempt at fixing some of the issues with vq3 while not going to the extreme of saying just play cpm.

where are you getting this from? cq3 predates the switch from osp to cpma, and any association with vq3. seems like you don't have much history with cpma and don't know why cq3 is 'classic q3'.

i guess i didnt know the history then. was that even released publicly? to me cq3 was the specific gameplay ruleset that was released as the cpma dev teams attempt at modifying vq3 without converting it entirely into cpm. i dont remember which update made it a ruleset option but it was i think definitely after i started playing which was 2007 jan. and most of the changes that ql made to the weapon balance derived from that cq3 ruleset (whether or not id intentionally borrowed it).

and i thought it stood for chocolate as opposed to vanilla. maybe one of the dev team can correct me. what u are talking about seems to be the step in between vq3 and cpm. something from a long time ago.

CQ3 was even in OSP.

A very minor evolution mind you.

I don't see it as "minor" evolution, as evolution in itself implies "minor" changes. It's not changing the base formula of Q3, simply addressing problems. I guess it's hard to say if it's really evolution, if it is making it more like q3test era in gameplay, in a good way, because of how it's somewhat faster, more RL oriented, etc.

Something like PQL is a different game, on the other hand.

I've got to the point where I really think tweaks to the Q3A formula, even 'drastic' ones like PQL or CPM are really just minor changes in the grand scheme of things.

When I look back at all the games with a significant DM component, history or culture by far the most interesting one, in terms of innovation is UT2k3.

Sadly, we're in an age where DM has been turned into pretty much a parody of itself these days. Blacklight Retribution (or whatever the fuck it's called, fuck checking that up) is just the most banal DM game I've ever watched on youtube yet I see it being touted in places as an interesting/exciting DM game... Then the indie/mod community seem intent on producing the most horribly bland crossbreeds of UT/Q3 imaginable.

I'm wishing id will come up with something special for Doom 4 but I think we all know it'll just be tweaks on the Q3A formula, watered down so its playable on consoles.

You can only play with so many parameters in the 3D space. A lot has been said about this, but basically, in this space you have to realize the potentials for 3 aspects of aim: prediction, portion, directionality by using various weapons, then you have strategy: 2 way split health, armor; movement: all dimensions, acceleration, gravity.
Q3 is result in 6 years of exploration and is the most amiable ruleset a DM game can have, that is not contrived and doesn't revolve one particular aspect of the 3D shooter game too much in terms of human abilities. There isn't much to innovate by adding anything, and I think ut2k3 was kind of gimmicky in that regard. The evolution, I think, can only happen by simplifying the game in ways that actually give it more depth and dimension.

The spawn system is an evolutionary improvement?
The ammo system is an evolutionary improvement?
Forcing tl 10 in duel is an evolutionary improvement?

Wow.

lmao exactly what ive been saying. i would hardly even consider these things improvements as they were just fine in Q3 but whatever.

good point, i like all of this actually.

yes, yes, at first i was like "ugh no", but after all the tournaments, I have to say "yes".

Interesting. I disliked these changes from day 1. I still played duel a ton in ql because I thought 'maybe I;m just stuborn" but up to this day getting a q3 duel going is a relief. Same for watching, ql demos are plain boring to me.
IMO that strenex ruled so hard on dm6 in the early days of ql is a direct result of those changes.
Gameplay became too flat, if you're into "action" quake, hf (recent changes in the map pool take that a step further, zzzz).

compared to osp duel - yes, yes and yes.

yeah, someone needs to read up on revolutionary and evolutionary development...

Quake Live is easier for new people to get into. No searching for mods, maps, etc... no having to set much up through the console (most things can be done via the UI). No getting smashed by highly skilled players right away. It's a big advantage to noobs.
I'm still a q3OSP/CPMA/RA3 lover, and always will be, but noone plays it anymore. The most I do with q3 these days is deFrag.
Thankfully I really dig the PQL settings in qlive so that's one small step for CPMers.

think about how you would get new players into cpma? even with an automated installer etc..

look at qw, all they can do nowadays is recruit those QL players who are familiar with irc and installation directories and pak1.pak etc..

compare with this: the news that there was a new official quake coming at the beginning of 2008 and again in the beginning of 2009 opened a potential of more than a million players

The things I like about QL that I would miss going back to Q3:

- Ability to spawn servers with a click.
- Playing fake is much harder in QL and I love it. The fix account (plus stats / Elo) improves the duel experience greatly.

This two things, imho, beat the missing in-game features.

honestly id rather have full control of a server by renting one myself in Q3 from a server provider of my choosing rather than getting only partial access through QL's setup. atleast i know exactly what im getting for my money. cant believe people are actually paying for pro in QL w/ all of the core server features still missing lol what a rip. lately it feels like all their servers are bogged down too

That's a fair point.

I just value ease of access greatly. 1 click to spawn a server, 1 click to invite one of my friends. Spawn the server wherever you want, with a simple interface to setup the most common things.

I could achieve the same in q3, looking for a server host, learning the server setup, having all QL friends over irc, pasting ip etc. But I would not be happy to have to do it this way, now that I'm used to the easy one.

To make an analogy, it's like using vi as text editor (q3) versus notepad (ql). I know a master of vi can fucking play ASCII animation in front of your eyes while coding 10 lines of code at the same time, but if I need to write down a few notes I will use notepad, just because it's easier to use.

to keep that analogy, I take notes with vi since notepad makes me rage! (and I would have to install windows beforehand:P)

As if those people who can't afford/aren't willed to pay 4euro/month for a pro account would rent a root server for 30+ euro/month to host their custom servers.

i dont see why not considering all of the advantages.

Which advantages? 90% of the players just don't give a shit about these functions. You just don't want to accept it.

Good analogy. The thing is that both QL and notepad can only get you so far, while with vi and an open quake3, a lot more is possible. Ease of use matters, and that's why the majority of people is playing QL rather than Q3 these days. So be it, we then just need to realize that we can expect as much support from ID for quakelive as you get from Microsoft for Notepad.

^ that pretty much sums this thread up lol.

believe me, notepad is a LOT harder to use compared to vi or emacs - don't confuse simplicity with familiarity :)

*grabs some popcorn*
oh shit that bucket is from february 2010.

All open source projects have one or few maintainers who consider the project their baby. Others do the testing, give input and suggestions, and some even look into the code and offer patches to solve a problem.

Quake3 has no more active maintainers, no ID, no OSP guys, no arqon, who consider the game or their mods their babies. No active developement. Players feel they play a dead game.

Users in this context means gamers, not typical users (or even programmers) in an open source project. You wouldn't get many patches for the game, you would most likely get very different suggestions about how much damage this and that should do and whether or not we need vehicles.

Openness can only get you so far in a game like this, where there needs to be an official rule set that all players agree on.

The only problem with QL is that although it try to continue to appear active, it has no more active, motivated developers, either. If there was improvement, or a way for the community to get heard, we would just all love QL and never think about Q3 again.

Gamers are consumers. Either a company has motivated (or at least well payed) in-house developers, or they let in the few community hackers who really identify with the project and can get stuff done. The model doesn't matter as much as the motivation of the right people, in this case, id software.

Again some things gathered together which I like better in QL:

-movement physics
-netcode
-grafics
-scaled down models(and the changed point of view resulting from that)
-raw input
-fixed zoom sensitivity
-Duel mode (TL 10, quick weapon respawn)
-weapon balance
-difficulty in faking nicknames
-all the website stuff which makes everything so much more comfortable and unites all players

-ELO and even QL`s own skillmatching is better than nothing


things i still miss:

-some of the CTF maps
-defrag mode

But it looks like it's still too hard to make timelimit in duel voteable so many people could play 15 min. which they like or fix ft default settings (highly demanded since years now)? I couldn't care less for the "big picture" like how id does no advertisements etc., but what I strongly dislike are all these little changes id has done wrong (everything that wasn't broken, implementation of many things nobody has asked for while ignoring what people are demanding since years).
I like your list and agree that movement and weapon balance are nice in QL, for example, but that parts of QL are done right isn't enough. No one would say: "Oh, ft settings are very bad, but lets just play it anyway because they fixed zoom sensitivity." Like nobody would buy a car with a broken engine just because it has a nice colour ...

So what are they saying when players demanding good rulesets? "Get Pro and start your own server!" Well, it doesn't work that way. The DEFAULT settings have to be good. Period. (Else things happen like with CPMA cq3: Endless discussions over how it should be, but nobody's playing it.)

I like your list (except changes to duel mode), and I'm sure we could add a lot of things, but as long as there are so many BASIC things done wrong, these things mean next to nothing. DEFAULT settings needs fixing. Sadly, the "best" example is still ft. It's getting beyond ridiculous that the only gametype they're charging for needs the most fixing. And what have they done? Deleted that big thread in their own forums where everything was said what needs to be done, but fixed nothing. Makes me thinking id is done ...

giant id fanboi...

ql grafics? right, they are even better than crysis2
netcode... ID increased the hitbox = good netcode lol
duel... when you like 10min TL you will love my q3 server with 3min TL xD

you can wait for ql defrag... or play defrag now

picmipped and otherwise tweaked grafix look better than doing the same in q3.
how do you get crysis2 in here?
"id" increased the hitbox a bit a year ago, after they decreased it a huge amount 2 years ago or something.

if i play defrag now, i don't have QL physics.

p.s.: im no "id" fanboy whatsoever.

the community is small enough as it is. easier access and usability is a step in the right direction for DM imo

http://justplay.tourney.cc/pages/get-painkiller-lite/

Tiers....Stats.....Friends list.....centralized forum and server browser.

The main one being tiers. without that i wouldn't be playing this game. This goes for most people....no matter what the banned cheater trolls in this thread want to make themsevles and people believe.

All those people that werein beta abandoned quake years ago....they came back because they thought things would be more fair when they heard ID was gonna be admin. So after beta they all quit quake again when they realized it wasn't gonna be too much diff then q3...lol.

but to be honest t3 is the only thing keeping this game alive.

t3?

well most people are either t3 or t4.

because of 60k 'active' duel players that's why. ffs.

What do you mean by that. is that true?

according to qlranks.com it is.

QL is easier to gt into these days.

I like QL, but I'd much rather be playing Q3. Almost every change they made to the gameplay waters down the game. The weapons in QL are more balanced, but I don't think that means they are better. VQ3 weapons are more powerful and more fun. Like I said before, when people try to balance weapons they almost always make them weaker. If id shuts down QL, I fear they will make Q3 play the way QL did.

so your not into balanced matches.....interesting.

Quake isn't designed to be a balanced game. It's about fighting for an advantage. A truly balanced game would be the Eye to Eye map, where all strategy is removed.

not designed to be a balanced game? hahahahahahah wtf? twilight zone stuff. lmao.


to me quake is not much diff then any pro athletic sport or pro game that you see played on tv. It can be just as competitive.

honestly I don't know what you mean... I kind of think your a little insane ...can you be more specific?

An imbalance is what decides many fights in Quake. (One guy has more armor, a better weapon, better position, etc) Someone might get 10 frags in a row against someone their skill level because they have map control and are making the right choices. So Quake is not a very balanced game overall, and that's a result of how the game is designed. But to me the imbalance of Quake is what makes Quake good.

balance as in FAIR CHANCE dude...

maybe we have a diff definition of balance. Human limitations as per designed by GOD are not the issue of game balance.

balance has nothing to do with a matches scoring outcome. I still have no idea what your talking bout. It has to do with everyone having a fair chance to win.

I mean for example....ql is 10 times more balanced then q3 as far as weapon damage and hitboxes etc.... BUT.....there is still a huge drastic skill gap among players, which basically has not changed at all since q3.

and I mean you are always going to have a winner and a loser. I guess in that sense and with that type of thinking we can say no game in existence is balanced.

IMO quake is the most e-sportlike/balanced then most fps games..... ESPECIALLY in CA...... For the simple fact that everyone has the SAME attributes.....meaning everyone has same weapons....same armor.....exact same character abilities.......and same exact movement potential.

you can't say this about any other professionally played video game except counterstrike.

It doesn't get more e-sport/balanced then that.

Only a good Q5 can get the Quake name relevant again, which is unlikely (afaik Q5 isn't even being developed)

Doom 4 will be their last shot to revive the genre and create something awesome. If its multi gonna suck thats it ultimately

I think the same. Seems to me that id software is close to shutting down (3-4 years, which in their developing schedule means one game).

So id closes (or get absorved by another totally irrelevant company/team=same as clossing)

That would pretty much constitute the end of competitive first person shooters (real competitive fps). Admit it, the only thing first person shooter wise worth watching at the moment is the tiny Zotac cups (is there anything else left for QL?) and thats irrelevant at the level im talking about (some kind of relevant level beyond the hardcore community that will never die).

counterstrike.

and what is the tyiny zotac cups, never heard of it.

but i know ghetto kids in the street that never had a pc in their life....who know what counterstrike is. and have heard of the game.... and know its history.

they have no clue what quake is...and never heard of it.

what do you mean by "counterstrike"

you talked about real competitive fps. well counterstrike is the only real competive fps.



if you ask a quake guy...that has never played any other game but quake since q1. what the term stacked means. they won't know. I swear to god...they never heard the term.

I have a friend got hired through quake making quake maps....works in the industry now and lives in texas. And he didnt' even know what the term stacked means.

Because stacked its a fair play term. fair play terms are never coined in quake. . Stacked is a term that came from counterstrike....meaning all the good players on one team....and all the newbs on the other team.

counterstrike is what made quake unpopular.

To be competitive means..... to want fair competitive matches. A competitive match is when both sides have a fair chance to win.

In quake players slum on newbs and stack teams and call the huge skill gap during matches competitive. When i'm sorry to inform you...its quite the opposite.


not onlyl did players in beta leave when they removed the 5th tier...because they were getting owned too much. Most players also left because they didn't enjoy playing against newbs or having them on their team. It goes both ways to be competitive.

Stacked is a term that came from counterstrike

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Counterstrike sucks.

that was so dumb it deserves a double picard facepalm

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id is already owned by Zenimax, so the very worst that would happen is that they would let a lot of people go, and merge id into Bethesda.

painkiller was really decent. the polish dudes should make the miracle again and start working on pk2

reading this thread makes me sad. When will someone develop a video game time machine?

To be honest, I started playing Quake for the first time in QL beta on the Mac, and got hooked (so hooked, in fact, I dual partitioned Win7 just to get a better QL client along with some Steam games). I heard that everyone was basically playing QL and that the Q3 community was just about dead, so I stuck with QL.

I have heard that it's easier to "run" as well, considering every server is either vanilla, or premium/pro -- no need to worry about having to install dozens of mods to play on a lot of different servers.

I love it, and I'm glad it's never going to die. It's Quake. :D

actually its already dying, and pretty much dead in NA. and itll probably be shut down whenever they stop caring enough to release their meaningless updates every 2-3 months

I suppose you're right... but once QL dies, where will I go for Quake?

Will there be NOTHING left? D':

I'd actually die inside as a gamer.

quake died for alot of people a long time ago. no one's really improved upon the fast FPS genre since UT99 and Q3, and at this point its unlikely that someone ever will. my advice: just move on before you drive yourself raythenoob batshit insane with a dead genre that is going no where :)

:'(

Well, I suppose there is always Xonotic, which I will be checking out the 0.6 release of hopefully within a week. Just needs a bigger NA scene.

TremZ is also looking very promising for a small indie project.

http://tremz.com/blog/

Fortress Forever, which I posted about, is alive and kicking, but makes Quake Live look incredibly popular in comparison. :|

*EDIT* And I agree, raythenoob was batshit insane.

once consoles catch up to pcs......and consoles are actually moddable pcs.... and gaming communuties come back alive.

I don't mean shitty dead ones with nothing but cheaters like this community.

I mean real communities like in the old days. texas teamplayers...moongamers.....etc.... too many to name. Where we have admins that aren't pussies.....that actually deter cheating and encourage fair play.....

then we will have more sportlike fps games again.

that maybe applies for NA .
Here in europe it is very alive.

Europe, indeed, Quake and 1.6 are very much alive.

But in NA all I hear about is BF3, CoD, and Halo. D:

I have a hard time believing you first played quake on quakelive.

Since you even heard of q3.......makes me skeptical. I mean you say you stuck with ql cause q3 was dead?

how they hell did you even hear about q3 and why would you even think about playing it....if you started on ql? strange.

Yes, I did.

I did a hell of a lot of research surrounding Quake when I discovered QL. Trust me, a lot of people have heard of Quake 3.

I hear from many that Quake 3 was/is better than QL, so I thought about playing it.

Furthermore, I had heard from many sources that Q3 is dead in comparison to QL. I have heard enough people attest to this (99%) so I believe it to be true. Also my friend told me this a little while back.

So... Yep! Gonna try out QW soon though, it looks fun.

QL introduced me to my now-favorite genre.

I love trying out older games... I am looking into playing Zdaemon as I type. :D

stick with ql... its better then all of them.

Let's suppose that q3 has good servers already paid by someone, and let's suppose that there is a good server browser, like "fraglove".

Join a server could need:
- download custom pk3 //waiting time
- join in a server with a huge range of skills (from top player to noob one) -> implies unbalanced game and noobs will unistall the game
- Game can't be played from everywhere, you need to bring with you a usb stick with q3 and your config.
- No friend management, you can simply add nice players in your friend list.

QL is more social (and more social means more effective, since humans does social things).
- Can play from whatever pc with good internet connection and your settings are stored in QL cloud.
- No custom pk3
- In certain gametypes (gametypes with enough players) the skill range is narrow so you can enjoy the match. (in TDM you can't since it has few players) It means -> more friendly for noobs.
- great friend management , so you can add with nice players easily.

So, QL > whatever fast paced fps (for example i like a lot warsow) to spend your free time.

good points...also the fact we can play from more locations.

for example i can ping 15 to 60 for 2/3 of country now. from tx to ny.......where as in q3 i only played in the northeast corner. i can even ping under 100 in germany its amazing.

and STATS!!!! MOST OF ALL STATS!!!

the most important...not only cause its something to look at to make game more interesting...follow progression..retrack match...just crunch numbers w/e...compare diff players.....play styles....etc......

but people can't hide as much in ql like they could in q3.

not only has id done an amazing job banning people... but profiles are very exposing.....i don't care what anybody says.....stats don't lie, they can just be misinterpreted...thats why the more stats the better and ql has plenty i applaud them for that.

the whole concept was amazing and makes sense in the real world.

the problem is allowing people to remain anonymous...and expecting them to be cordial and sports-like, especially in such a competitive enviornment.

But there are things that can be done.....the risk to paying subscribers is minimal....

I assure you...most alts are not paying subscribers......and we are talking the majority of the playerbase. I guarantee this.

poll servers...thats what i do...everyday i'm on. People will freely tell you they have dozens of alts.....they are mostly under one year old accounts..... how bout everyone from 2009 already quit the game.....do you want to try and get them back...or just support cheaters who ruined your prospects.

just because some people don't care about their stats or respect other players profiles.....why let them ruin it for others.

It just makes no sense....

and whether stats are here or not...q3 is proof...that people were more ruthless and cutthroat because there were even LESS regulations and way less respectable and sportlike players.

ID did an amazing job with the gameplay which is 10x better then q3...without a doubt.... ca blows the doors off ra3. from weapon dmg to movement to everything you can possibly name.... in a more mature and competitive way.

Also, their concept of a tier system like pro sports on tv or even video game tourney leagues is spot on. The skill system they paid good money for is fkn amazing... its the future....so many stats, if only they seperated them for each game mode..... its great we all love it.

Stats bring RESPECTABLITY to the SPORT! no matter how u cut it....cause profiles ...ugly profiles are there being seen, they are in your face and you can't hide from them....thats what really upsets people.

The problem, I believe, is ID really and truly believes these alts are paying customers. I think almost none of them are....

Or Lemme explain something... if John carmack really believes rpgs rule......then this is the deal......all alts have MAINS....thats why they're called alts.

MAIN ACCOUNTS THEY WILL NEVER GIVE UP.....they will pay good money to get them reinstated as id well knows.... The paying subscribers who alt...will not go anywwhere....let them complain.....but they will still play their mains....

almost all of us have been playing this game for years and doubtful anyone is gonna quit the game or stop paying because they can't make 3-80 accounts lmao. especially when its in the name of fair play.

I feel like the potential for e-sports lies with ql... it has the most potential....to become as respected as an athletic sport.

simply for all the reasons the above poster pier explained..... it can reach widest audience.

ID did an amazing job with the gameplay which is 10x better then q3...without a doubt.... ca blows the doors off ra3.

not sure if serious or trollin

100% serious.

I'm 100% serious. the gameplays is more mature and competitive .....from weapon damage and armor...to hitboxes...to movement....to cvars, to spawn spots.... to anything you can think of affecting gameplay they improved upon.

even my cfg is not possible in q3 bro. I applaud id for the great job making ca gaemplay even more sportlike then ra3 was.

the gameplays is more mature and competitive .....from weapon damage and armor...to hitboxes...to movement....to cvars, to spawn spots.... to anything you can think of affecting gameplay they improved upon.

your lack of experience in both QLCA and in Q3/ra3 disqualifies you from making bold statements such as these. nothing about qlca is better than ra3 (everyone whos actually played ra3 knows this, just like everyone knows cpma is better than pql, uft is better than freezetag, etc). nothing about QL is an improvement over Q3. shut your newbie face.

funny how most of the players prefer ql.


even cooller said he thinks ql is better.

i mean noone even plays ra3 anymore.....earth to dutra...come back down to reality. everyone is playing ql.


I mean are you gonna be like lorfa...and tell me everyone abandoned q3 for ql...for its friends list? hahahahahaha.

just because everyone is playing QL doesnt make it the better game. QL is one of the worst quake games in the series next to Q4. both games were extremely shortlived and failed to top/beat Q3's multiplayer gameplay. ID did a terrible job with QL mainly because they didnt allow the community to be involved with its development at all, which is what made Q3 such a great game to play. after 3 years QL is still just a tweaked vanilla q3 web port, which isnt even a fraction of what all of Q3's multiplayer had to offer.

also, no one abandoned q3 for ql. q3 was active for years, and died on its own. apparently ID failed to make ql a successful sequel since its pretty much dead now.

"just because everyone is playing QL doesnt make it the better"

haha what are you even talking about now?

the community was too invovled with its development.

Thats why abusive alt accoutns are condoned and manually uptiering or down tiering is allowed...and why they removed pb.... and why they removed tier 5 after beta. who are you kidding.

they even u let post on their ql forums as a player banned from gameplay. with your propoganda encouraging dishonest play....but then again the mods like malk. lorfa and diplodok are no diff then you, which is really telling.



we can at least agree that ql is more POPULAR?....then q3?? no matter w/e your warped definition of "better" is....that apparenlty most people don't follow.

i heard it kinda aims for you

Quake Live
+Slightly better netcode (Unless you have CPMA for Quake III)
+Faster movement speed
+Runs via web browser
+Easier strafe-jumping and rocket jumping
+Stat-tracking and skill-based servers
+More game modes than Quake III and Team Arena combined
-No map voting anymore
-No mod support
-Many features require pro/premium access (Monthly fee)
-Has been toned down to receive a T rating. This means:
> No pentagrams or demon/dragon heads
> Certain maps have been renamed
> Certain characters have been excluded
> NO BLOOD/GORE EFFECTS

Quake III: Arena/Team Arena
+Mod support
+Pay one-time only (Gives access to the full game)
+CPMA has better netcode
+Has everything you'd expect from the original game.
+Map voting
-Less maps, game modes and features than Quake Live
-Slower movement
-Standard Quake III has worse netcode
-Doesn't run as smoothly

I'll say this, I don't play either game that much anymore. I'm almost sad to say this, but I've moved on from Quake III. The original just hasn't had much going on for it anymore, and Quake Live is way too goddamn serious to be considered fun anymore.

Errr, less maps than Quake Live? Lets not forget about the first point you made, friend. Also having Quake Live run via a web browser as a pro is a bit subjective, people - Such as I - Don't want to log into Quake Live via a web browser and start it up through there. Rather I would have a client-side executable that I could use even in the case when I have no Internet, so I can do things such as mod it or even play vs. Bots etc.

-Less maps, game modes and features than Quake Live

there over 500maps for q3 and ql got how much?
ql got a lot of unplayed gamemodes because noone wants/need them, yay. Instead of putting the most demanded gamemode DEFRAG into ql... q3 got defrag, ra3, exessive...
ql got still just 80% of the features of osp/cpma! Play cpma and you will see so many options to set, so many useful things to discover...

+Faster movement speed
+Easier strafe-jumping and rocket jumping

not true, cg_placebo 1

dude you just didnt play q3

He probably meant "as-is" about the map part.

-Doesn't run as smoothly

Really? I don't think that's true.

benefits of q3:

mods

better support:mod makers would come back or let someone take care of the mod for them.
people are always working on the client to make it better

better servers

don't have to deal with id anymore

faster and improved gameplay if you choose to play cpm

esea says there are very interested in helping
if enough people comeback, they will be able stop the hackers and possibly run tournaments!!!!

cheaper price - free 99 for everybody - can't beat that

can run nice servers from home(fiber)

cpma vq3 might be slower than ql, but the movement is harder to do than ql






benefits of quakelive:

friendslist
....
....
..


seriously, that's all i can think of



just use irc instead of the friendslist and you're good to go

no cooller, no quake

Not this again! /cue facepalm ascii
QL takes out the hassle of finding/running/maintaining servers, organizing games on clunky IRC, keeping your client up to date with a million different server configurations, doing all that and finding no one is online anyway, etc etc etc.
It's centralized, sensible, simple.
And anyone talking about 'stacked teams','hackers', other BS... did you ever play Q3? At least in QL you have other recourse if people are abusing the system. At least there is an authority out there dedicated to banning hackers and other malicious users, maybe they're not 99% successful, but they're doing as good job as they can do fairly and accurately.
Everyone knows QL didn't do everything right, but we don't REALLY need to discuss that AGAIN do we? There's a reason why everyone is here whining in the QL forum, it's because 90% of the people whinging about how 'dead' QL is, or how shit it has become, are still playing.
Yeah, I think the new gamemodes are shit too, but if you think that QL didn't improve ANYTHING over Q3 then you're simply an idiot.

This.

While the project manager's priorities are all fucked up, QL > Q3

(unless you care a great deal about mods and kenya maps)

How about lans and infinite maps for free.

That's all to do with id software's priorities, not the core gameplay itself. Those aspects could be integrated to QL if id software wanted to.

But they will never do it.

because
1.ql doesn't have fag admins that are going to hack my cfg or fry my mobo over the game.

2. doesn't have a hard to use server browser, or fav servers that hackers will dos attack into the ground, till they are shut down

3. .and no need to figure out how to install 3rd party mods....

4. and because ql has stats and skill matching...with id banning cheaters and trolls.......

1. WTF??

2. What was hard about using 'The all-seeing eye'? Even that primarily CS game browser could be set up and used to find Quake matches IIRC.

3. Easier than installing Q3 itself, so not really hard...

4. Stats I kinda dislike in QL, it should be stats for the last 100 matches or something like that, because right now there's players that have sucked for 2000 matches, started to play much better due to: maturing/they start to use their brain in gaming?? - and the stats don't reflect their current gameplay. Pretty useless isn't it!

Skill matching is pretty bad, but not terrible. still a positive I guess...

I agree with Python, everyone likes centralisation and connectivity today. So from the moment you connect to quakelive.com you are able to chat with QL friends, see who they played recently etc. Even though the system is not perfect, it's still something much better than Q3 ever had received from the open-source community. And it is continuing to evolve (slowly, but it does).

"2. What was hard about using 'The all-seeing eye'? Even that primarily CS game browser could be set up and used to find Quake matches IIRC."

not everyone is a nerd. better to have one centralized browser. just another improvement in ql. someone on this forum once gave me an even better browser...i think pikaluva...i forget what it was called.

"3. Easier than installing Q3 itself, so not really hard..."

def not easier then ql...lmao.... and i would have trouble installing ra3 mods alot of times....and which servers had what versions....gimme a break mr computer programmer.

"4. Stats I kinda dislike in QL, it should be stats for the last 100 matches or something like that, because right now there's players that have sucked for 2000 matches, started to play much better due to: maturing/they start to use their brain in gaming?? - and the stats don't reflect their current gameplay. Pretty useless isn't it! "

then u dislike sports like most of the nerds in quake. and career stats matter just as much as any other time period. Most important to scouts in professional atheltic games as well. You can predict slumps and streaks in a year......and a couple years dude. for instance in baseball...some players have hot hitting percentages, or slugging percentages...or so many stats.... in the beginning of season...some at the end of a season... etc...

and let me tell you someting... i was really newb when i started out in beta man. And like alot of players...some even pro now like krailed... sufferance...i can name alot of names dude.....that gradually got to that level. working their way from t2. true story. my stats were garbage at first. someimtes when i'm in a slump and log into to t4 they still take a thrashing. THATS WHAT SKILLMATCHING IS FOR! You are allowed TWO accounts.

"I agree with Python, everyone likes centralisation and connectivity today. So from the moment you connect to quakelive.com you are able to chat with QL friends, see who they played recently etc. Even though the system is not perfect, it's still something much better than Q3 ever had received from the open-source community. And it is continuing to evolve (slowly, but it does). "

ya i agree too. but to say these are the only reasons people are playing ql....is ludicrous. maybe thats the only reason half the players in t4 are playing. but i guarantee you most in t3 would quit q3.

Dude those are not the only reasons why people play QL. If you read carefully you could conclude that I mostly agree with you, but you don't have to be super smart to use ASE or install mods. Yes, versions could be a problem, but in ASE you can see the version then download the correct one for the server you want to play on.

True, QL has none of those problems, but to say you have to be a 'nerd' or 'mr programmer' to use those, is funny :)

And I didn't say skillmatching is a completely bad thing (even if it's not very useful, players come from tier 3 to tier 4 and get raped over and over and vast majority never ups their game). I just said there could be 100last matches stats that's shown on profile page to more accurately represent a players skill, and then it should be possible to see the overall one.

And BTW, I prefer QL to Q3, I am all for QL, it's being actively developed to some extent, which beats an old game. I have hope for QL. The only thing I want more than QL at the moment is for 2gd to really do well with Reborn, because he has some nice ideas and what he wants to do with the game is amazing - make it enjoyable even for absolute beginners.

Peace man, don't be angry :D

"Dude those are not the only reasons why people play QL. If you read carefully you could conclude that I mostly agree with you, but you don't have to be super smart to use ASE or install mods. Yes, versions could be a problem, but in ASE you can see the version then download the correct one for the server you want to play on.
"
ok mr computer programmer.

"And I didn't say skillmatching is a completely bad thing (even if it's not very useful, players come from tier 3 to tier 4 and get raped over and over and vast majority never ups their game). I just said there could be 100last matches stats that's shown on profile page to more accurately represent a players skill, and then it should be possible to see the overall one."

career stats are more accurate. I prolly would stop playing the game if that is the case. again this is why we have skillmatching. players go up and down. I'm a prime example. and it would be ludicrous to think that some players will never be better then t1....hahah. and btw..players that got drastically good overnight instead of gradually like human beings....were automatically banned on stats.


what stats show is whose a tier slummers...whose an alt account...whose a ragequitter.....whose a statpadder..and LG aim is usually accurate to see how one aims. if they sucked for a year...they GRADUALLY got good if they legit. they didn't just one week go from skill 25 to skill 50 dude. sorry i don't believe that. pretty naive.

"
And BTW, I prefer QL to Q3, I am all for QL, it's being actively developed to some extent, which beats an old game. I have hope for QL. The only thing I want more than QL at the moment is for 2gd to really do well with Reborn, because he has some nice ideas and what he wants to do with the game is amazing - make it enjoyable even for absolute beginners."

well this explains alot. and I'll tell u some things 2gd is not gonna do....on top of the fact the gameplay not be as good(no game since q3 has been)...there is no way he will have a better skill rating system then gaimtheory developed with their metagame engine. Noone will for at least a decade to come.... and I can guarantee you he doesn't give a shit bout tiers or stats either. so I can guarantee you...it will be just as unpopular as ql. GUARANTEED.

You're missing my point on the stats, and your attitude remains really negative. I see no point in engaging further discussion with you 'mr negative' :D cheers!

YOUR TRYING TO TELL ME....THAT STATS ARE NOT ACCURATE CAUSE THEY INCLUDE STATS FROM WHEN A PLAYER SUCKED...LETS SAY A YEAR AGO.

AND I'M TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY CAREER STATS ARE IMPORTANT. ESPECIALLY IF E-SPORTS ARE GOING TO BE RESPECTED AND PLAYERS WANT TO GET SPONSORSHIPS.

THEY ARE USED TO CALCULATE STREAKS AND SLUMPS DURING A SEASON. BY SCOUTS IN PRO ATHELTIC SPORTS...AS WELL AS MANY OTHER THINGS.

AND ALSO TO A GUY LIKE ME THEY PROVE A PLAYER IS LEGIT. IF ALL IT SHOWS IS 100 GAMES ON A PROFILE...JESUS CHRIST THEY ARE A FKN ALT!!!!!!!!@&@!&*(@#&(*@!


MY POINT...WHICH YOU ARE THE ONE FKN IGNORING...... IS THAT NOONE GETS GOOD OVERNIGHT. ITS A GRADUAL PROCESS!!!! SO WITH THIS FACT...AND THE FACT WE HAVE SKILL MATCHING AND TIERS, YOUR POINT IS INVALID!!!!

WTF DID I JUST READ

over your head.... move on. start with dr. seus and work your way up to the adult conversations.

some even pro now like krailed... sufferance...i can name alot of names dud

Krailed is nowhere near pro lolololol

If you think krailed is good...

he hes good enough to compete a couple tournaments i seen streaming him dude. my point is some guys were horrible t2's in beta and they got better. He must of been real rusty.


and hey just for kicks.... post yourself hacking again like crazy jackass.....

why don't you pay 100 dollars to get your account back like krailed did and promise to never be a cheater loser again haha.

Any tier 2 shitty can sign up for a tournament. The point is krailed is nowhere near good, and if you think he is good- well, that says a lot about your own skill.

post yourself hacking again like crazy jackass...

Why don't you find the original video of me hacking? Oh that's right, there is no video.

HES PROLLY AROUND A SKILL 90+

YA I'M SURE THEY FKN STREAMED T2S ON QL TV . OK BUD. LOL


AND I'M NOT GONNA BOTHER SEARCHING ESR FOR THAT THREAD OR POST. EVERYONE ON ESR ALREADY KNOWS YOUR A FUCKING NUTJOB DUDE. AND MOST HAVE ALREADY HEARD ABOUT IT.

AT LEAST I STAND FOR SOMETHING...AND HAVE NEVER CHEATED...NOR PROMOTED CHEATING.

i know im way late to the party but you make me lol even a year later :DDD

http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/statistics/krailed

Duel: 1046 elo :D

lg 28%, rg 28%, nothing else than pub ca played :D true pro

WHAT A SKILL ))

- it's quake
- without ql quake had 100 people left (at the very very very most), big advertising/marketing just by "being there" and being released
- easy to install, you don't need 4 installs for 4 different mods, modes or servers
- all positive and negative things that come with the "cloud", cfg saved, stats,..
- you don't necessarily need 3rd party programs like irc, server browser
- all the pros and cons that come with web-integration, accessible from anywhere (you need admin rights to install ofc.), see last 2 points
- all the pros/cons from a centralized system, always updated, standardized rulesets, global anticheat/bans, unification of communities (I wish), of course if it's down it's down, and we're on the mercy of id, ql-exlcusive maps (would they be available if there was no ql? maybe)
- about the game itself, as a qler I don't see any positives for cpma/osp in this regard soz (netcode, warpy models, looks and graphics and feel, weapon and hitbox although a bit low dps very well balanced)

there was a chance to make ql big, but chances were missed, important things were forgotten, but the idiot whiny duelers are almost gone now, so that's maybe even a plus

ql is better cos it has competition

being ironic?

no

"This isn't a 'blame the developer' post. I'm just saying, why did the quake community ever decide to start playing QL instead of Q3? Wasn't this a mistake?"

This shows how weak the community is. Like the opinion of the masses work: they consider everything made of pure gold as soon as this comes from more powerful people, decisions qwise. Sometimes they change up their opinion, but this process is consuming a lot of time and resources and very often there is so much time going by that at the time they find that they were wrong there is nobody left to support the charge. Kinda like in the history books we are (not) quite reading carefully.

very true

The latest version of QL lets you adjust all kinda of server variables so you if you want to make it more like Q3 you can. But the reason I prefer QL over Q3 is all the improvements made the UI. Fully customizable on what is shown, bright skins (with darken bodies), and things like that.

I kinda wish they would shut down QL and just release a patch for Q3 with all the changes to the UI and cvars.

That wouldn't be so difficult to make... think about the CPMA mod, it has been developed in just some months and has a huge number of improvements over vq3; it wouldn't take too much to add an easier interface/hud, neither to convert ql maps to q3 or to change the physics.

I kinda wish they would shut down QL

soon once willits leaves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Willits

he's the last dinosaur working at id

flares thread is still alive eh

I have to pay a membership fee to play campgrounds, a map that CAME with q3. Not to mention other core maps, overkill, etc. This is why I dont like QL as much. also have to pay if i want to play UFT, 3 bucks a month to get something that i can go on fileplanet and get for free with an original copy of q3. this is what i dont like.

Saying that the games are the same thing shows that you are unexperienced. Ive played Q3 duel (OSP) and duel in QL, trying QL first.

QL is the improved, more balanced version of Q3.The negative side is that its too closed these days, scaring players away. They have to have at least 1 map for each gametype (dm6 for ca for example), always being free, ztn for duel etc.

i dont like using mirc to find games

I'm not even sure what your replying to a year later...... I'm not even krailed?

But those stats are at t4 against some good players. I believe hes even entered some tourneys.

And CA is RA3, it was always the most popular and competitive game mode besides cpma duels. , its what has kept q3 alive and ql alive all these years..... talk shit about it more. Society hates your fake ass...

And yes Krailed admitted to getting banned and paying for his account back. He was horrible when he started and one of the guys that turned god overnight.....but w/e...