..floorball.... lol

I think its our most popular sport after football in sweden tbh :).

i thought ice hockey was :o

Ah, well, it hasnt been for many years. I wonder if hockey is even in the top 5 most popular sports in sweden nowadays =).

ice hockey is alot more work and costs more in preparation time and equipment etc, all you need in floorball is a stick.

what about a ball?

and a floor?

a linoleum floor?

IT'S A MUST!

:)

Hockey> floorball in popularity

Do you have any sources on that info?

From what I've heard floorball is the largest sport in Sweden in terms of participants.

Yeah, I wasnt sure if it was number 1 atm ,or if its number 2, I've heard both, so you might be correct!

schumi doesn't cheat

but do you have a vidcap of the incident

Everybody (as in former drivers, current drivers, and other teams currently competing) outside of the current ferarri team that has been asked about the incident, even former ferarri people has said that he cheated. And if you watched that incident, its so damn obvious that he stopped there on purpose. Also add to that, that the officials were reviewing this incident for 8 hours last night before they made the decision.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzGN-qjSg7Q&am...i%20monaco

Imo, its so obvious that he tried to pull a fast one in this incident that you'd probably have to be a very hardcore ferarri fan to deny it :).

Not the first time he has done something dodgy.

I agree.

dunno looks kind of legit

entering the corner theres a small bit of oversteer so he corrects it and he can't make the exit. only suspect thing i see is the pointing straight at the wall right after the exit, but i wasnt in the car i dunno what it was doing so from an onboard view like that you can only deduce the obvious.

im actually very curious son, what is it about not fully handling that turn and stopping that makes it cheating?

dunno, i was arguing that by that 1 video it's inconclusive

knowing that alonso was on a faster lap, taking that corner completely differently (too close) than normal, stalling the car...... he doesnt stall the car in an accident let alone a crap incident like this.

it was obvious he done it to my wife, who is a crap driver and knows nothing about schumi's previous incidents.

Countless numbers of viable F1 sources (Including ex F1 drivers and world champions) have analyzed this video and the majority (heck, 99%) concluded that Michael Schumacher[MS] deliberately manoeuvered his car to block the circuit. This was at the end of the final qualifying session when the track was at its fastest and his rivals were all on laps that were challenging or bettering his own. Anyone with an ounce of sense will see the guy parked his car at the final corner. Looking at the video you can see MS is tucked right inside almost hugging the armco barrier. This is not the normal racing line. The line is about 1 meter to the left. His data was put to the stewards of the race meeting after official protests from Renault (and prolly other teams)and it was proven he deliberately engaged brakes as to cause the car to lock up and 'make it look as if he is having a problem' then manoeuver his car to suit. MS also decided to stall his car (these things have anit-stall mechanisms) for his little plan.

Basically he was desperate to get a front row grid prosition and give himself best opportunity for the race and he was (what looks like it) prepared to cheat to succeed in getting his goal.

It's such a shame and I hope the man is embarrased for what will probably be known as his biggest blunder. I certainly feel embarrased for the guy (especially in that post quali press conference :-o). Nearing his retirement I really hope he's not remembered for this as he is statistically the greatest racing driver ever. I really admire his ability, drive, determination and work ethic but he should not have had to do this.

I believe he had good race pace and would've won the race if he started from the front row... he didn't need to do this. He just cocked up big time. :\

Looks like he's also going to be stripped on his GPDA presidency. We have yet to see the full implications of this. I think it's gonna run and run.

He will get away with this just like when he delibaretaly crashed into Villenueve.

He never got away with that. He was stripped second place of the '97 championship. You know some idiot fanboys still argue he never attempted to ram into Villeneuve that day. :\

Most people still count that year and he should have gotten some kind of ban. In my eyes he got away with it.

He got away with it "lightly" for sure.

and lets face it he only won his first wolrd championship cus he did the same thing to Damon Hill

Scumacher really dominated the '94 season and I believe he deserved to win it. He was given harsh penalitys to perhaps make the championhip more interesting. But you're right about Adelaide, it was dirty what he did.

Schumi sucks, plain and simple. Granted, he's one of the best drivers ever if not the best but the guy has a fucked up personality.

Indeed, its a shame he resorts to these things when he's such a great driver.

hell, he is german, what do you expect? ;)

always cheating :(

cu@lan

heh. Do you really think he would've achieved what he has with a 'nice guy' approach. The guy is definitely calculating but I think he wouldn't be a genius if he wasn't. :-)

I'd just like to add, Ayrton Senna was the same. He had a ruthless determination to win. He squeezed Prost, took prost out to win champtionship etc. That man also achieved great things. It's natural instinct - they're winners and will do anything at all costs.

I'd counter that with the fact Prost also took Senna out for a world title win, it was not always Ayrton. Sure he was a genius and stunningly fast but he wouldnt stoop to this kind of stunt that Shumacher pulled.

So, no, he wasnt the same. Speed wise he was faster and in terms of overtaking and car control he was light years ahead. Same mentality to win? Sure thats about all they had in common.

You obviously can't compare two different generations of racing drivers. To say 'Senna is better than Schumacher at x and y' like a fanboy would is ridiculous. The only times we really saw them together as true rivals is the beginning of 1994. We were robbed of potentially the greatest period of F1. Schumacher is also amazingly fast and Shumacher also has amazing car control. And in many ways, yes, they are the same. Senna did some pretty shocking things while racing. Of course he was also compassionate. To win the British F3 championship back in '83 his car ended up on top of Brundles!

I dont think you got me. I wasnt comparing them from different era's I was comparing their skills. Sure Schumacher has great car control and speed, I didnt say he didnt, but in my opinion it was not as good as Senna's in his prime. The mere fact that it has taken him this long to break the pole position record says a lot about raw speed and dont forget, Senna spent a long period of his career in sub standard cars, far more so than Schumacher.

It is not fanboyism I can assure you, I have watched every race in F1 and other formula's since 1979 and if I were to name one driver (as a fan) above all others it would be Gilles Veillenueve and not Senna.

You are right, its hard to compare drivers from different era's and we were robbed of a great fight between Senna and Schumacher and yes it is arguable over who was better or faster or had better car control, however having watched both drivers for well over 20 years (I even watched Schumacher when he drove for Mercedes in sports cars and was owned by Karl Wendlinger and Heinz Harald Frentzen) I am confident in stating that neither his raw speed or car control were a match for Senna.

As for the antics, yes they have both been bad boys through out their careers, although again there is a major difference here. Senna was ruthless mainly out of his religous beliefs, feeling that god protected him in a situation and he also believed he was right all the time, something at least Michael has not always done, admitting in the past that he made a "bad judgement" in the 97 Villeneuve incident for example. Senna however never once said he was sorry or that he was in the wrong, even when admitted a year later that he had taken out Prost on purpose at the first corner in Suzuka to win the title, even then, he said he did it because it was the right thing for him to do. Pretty amazing and bar his latin temperament, you could be forgiven for thinking it was overt arrogance.

F3 was much the same although you have to remember that back then, he was a relatively unknown driver (having won the FF1600 and FF2000 titles back to back, he was known to me and many of the people in the lower rungs of motor racing, but not to the world) and Brundle had no idea he would be so ruthless in a contest. He won 9 straight rounds from the start in the BP F3 championship in 1983 and then had that infamous clash where he ended up on top of Brundles car. This did NOT decide the championship btw, it simply ment both of them went out of a mid season race, although ultimately of course it would cost Brundle a shot at it. the fact is, he had won 1 race to Senna's 9 at the time of the accident.

Its also worth nothing that I attended a test session at brands hatch that year where he, brundle and one other driver I now forget, tested the McLaren. John Watson put down a benchmark time and everyone went out. They were all pretty close on times, although Senna's time was set on a lap where his engine blew. Somehow he negotiated another run and recorded a time a full second faster. He was also cunning.

Im rambling, I could go on all day about F1.

my father always told me that F3 race was for the championship. Guess not :-) It was at Oulton Park iirc (my local circuit :-)).

anyway nice reply, I concur with all.

It IS possible to be one of the very best without being an ass. Look at Mika Häkkinen =).

Yeah he just cries :o

swedish whine

just accept it ... germany ownz u :)

How can you "own us" when we're not even in f1? =)

Don't confuse him. He might invade!

possible ;)

:o

from behind!

Shame Sweden doesnt have anyone right now, but Ronnie Peterson was still one of the very fastest drivers of all time :)

Yeah, he's sorely missed still over here, the best driver we ever hard for sure :).

We might get Björn Wirdheim in the future though (with a little luck) he's pretty good at the stuff he's driven so far. He was even a test driver for jaguar for a while :).

that guy really looks like fatal1ty :)

nah, this guy looks like Fatal1ty, the the DS9 version that is ;)

ROFL, i always thought fat looked like that guy.

hehe, i lol'ed myself when a recent item on Fatal1ty appeared here on ESR and i saw his pic and i thought "WTF fata looks like Odo". I took some time to surf to the DS9 site and look up Odo's pic. I even made a (little) effort and put the 2 pics together.

Pretty pathetic huh? :P

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=794820#pid794820

See ! LOL

OMG HAHAHAHAHA

It wasnt really the video that actually made him guilty (as some have suggested it could be interpreted as a simple error, even by the best driver in the world).

The stewards actually spent a few hours looking through the telemetry and studied the acceleration, breaking and steering angles used and concluded after many hours that they were TOTALLY inconsisten with ANY other laps at La Rascasse corner that Schumacher had completed at any time in the GP weekend. They also failed to find any other drivers telemetry that even came close to the steering angles, acceleration and breaking patterns on that lap.

As he had set fastest lap at that point and because monaco is notoriously hard to find a good lap in traffic during the pole shootout, it was more than a little obvious that he was trying to deny anyone else the chance to better his time.

As has been said here, he has flouted the rules on many occasions in the past and although I could list at least 5 incidents of varying kinds since 1994 I dont have the time or the inclination and what he did yesterday was indefensible.

About time he was caught too, its been a while, but at least this time a cheat didnt prosper.

hopefully the evidence in the telemetry was sound enough, if it is then so be it, schumi tried to pull a fast one on everyone and he deserves whats been dealt.

Inevitably, Michael thinks otherwise and the stewards of grand prix have been notably inconsistent and make some odd decisions sometimes, so its not impossible they are wrong, but its unlikely.

At least now the Chief Steward is the same at every race, hopefully that is improving consistency... but as an Aussie I have to say WHERE ARE THE BLUE FLAGS!!!

Yup, Webber was robbed :(

Schumacher sux now that Ferrari can't tune the hell out of their cars anymore.

I thought they all had one lap slots?

come on it only changes once a year get with the times =)

I don't understand what is gonig on :( someone explain! :P

read the thread, explains everything.

Schumacher deliberately stopped his car, while on the track his in qualifying to prevent other driver(s) from getting pole position.

Schumi's just pissed off that they changed the rules to stop his dominance =] I wonder if they'll do the same to fuck up Alonso =o

i bet he plays clan arena too

you mean cpma?

F1 is still boring to watch most races, regardless of the new rules (though they have helped). It's just becoming a 70lap parade lap, i'm sure it didnt used to be so.

Go back before 1994 and it wasnt... perhaps the last season i remember i load of overtaking was 1989 and before that it was 1985. We never get many years of overtaking and exiciting racing regardless of the rules, but it has been bad for a while now.

Slicks are making a comeback which should help. They need to figure out a way to nerf the aero. Pretty tough to do without making matters worse in dirty air.

Schumi doesn't cheat... lol
He didn't need the second steering correction at all. He had space to go forwards. He says he didn't want to go backwards yet he stalls selecting reverse without the clutch... Plus there are precedents of him blocking the track or spinnin on purpose:

Silverstone 2004 first qualifying. Rain previsions, so he has to do something to start first (ie, being slow in the first one). Everyone just slows down, but he provokes a deliberate spin. Notice how he starts it... yes, applying too much pressure on the brakes without a reason, exactly the reason the stewarts penalised him in Monaco.

Then you have Austria 2000 start, when after spinning, he deiberately parks his car in the middle to cause the red flag and being able to start again.

Mix both and you got Monaco 2006. Pathetic really.

wow, omg that one at Silverstone really looks like a mistake NOONE else has EVER made. I really don't like Schuhmacher but using this a "proof" is just ridiculous.

Conspiracy Theory FTW

Seriously, if you can't see the Silverstone spin was deliberate (he didn't try to correct it at all), then no need to continue talking. Everyone with a little clue would see it, anyway.

Didn't watch the clip (rapidshare). I was refeffering to that:

"Notice how he starts it... yes, applying too much pressure on the brakes without a reason"

And I don't care if that means I don't have a clue, but applying to much pressure on the brakes still looks like a common mistake to me.

Maybe try to describe a little more accurately next time, or upload to a better place...

So you didn't watch it, that explains it. Well other download location:
http://www.filefactory.com/?882777
And yes, applying too much pressure on the brakes is relatively common, but being in a spin and don't moving the steering wheel from the initial position isn't.

Thx for the other upload.

Now, we agree on that. I'm still unsure if you can take to different incidents as a "proof" for another, but he definitely doesn't look unhappy with that spin.

Look at what one of the stewards said:

"It was a painful decision because we could not make a mistake and put the reputation of a driver at risk," he told Gazzetta dello Sport.

"We don't know if the entire manoeuvre was deliberate, but in that spot he had certainly not done anything like it throughout the weekend: he braked over 50% more heavily than on the other laps.

"Then he performed some absolutely unnecessary and pathetic counter-steering, and that lasted five metres, until there was no more chances of going through the turn normally.

"He lost control of the car while travelling at 16km/h! That's something completely unjustifiable. And the engine shut off because he wanted it to, by losing enough time before hitting the clutch. And the excuse that he did not engage reverse because there was traffic doesn't make sense."

That one at Silverstone wasn't cheating at all. If he cheated by spinning, then everyone else cheated by going slow.

It wasn't cheating because back then there was 1 lap qualifying, so he didn't ruin anyones lap. I uploaded it just to show that there are precedents of him:
- Faking a driving mistake to gain from it
- Blocking the track so he gains from it (Austria)

WRC (Rallye Championship) > F1

No way :), isnt that where you're sitting in the woods and then watch 1 guy go past you every 30 seconds, and then have NOOO idea what the results are cant be fun to watch live =).

oh wait.. formula 1 is much for fun to watch, you're right!!

watching 22 guys driving one after another and nothing happens for like 30 laps until someone finally has to make a pitstop or his motor blows up for no reason... thats really interesting...

At least you see every car more than once in f1 :)

both suck.

but only watching on tv. the on-board camera perspective is awesome

could anyone explaine to me what he did that was cheating, i don't get it? =)

Are you serious or kidding?

no seriosly, what did he gain from doing that?

there was a lollypop on the track and he was able to get it.

Alonso was doing an attempt to get the pole (his last qualifying run), schumacher had the fastest lap up to this point. So, Schumacher stops his car in an awkward position to try to stop alonso (and the other cars as well) from getting past that turn with good speed. And it worked, Alonso lost too much time going past schumi so that qualifying lap was ruined for him.

aahh i c

I would take his bad antics for his wealth haha

we need another mansell - getting so close to the walls he's rubbing the goodyear lettering off