This is the first time I've been excited about stuff that id is doing in a while, nice feeling!

Thanks Roger!

Wunderbar

interesting what he says about responiveness. Im quite impressed of this speech, it sounds as John Carmack and id might save fps dm gaming.

seems kinda awkward to me when he also says that there's not noticeable difference between 60 and 120 fps

i must have missed that, but I wondered too, why he kept on talking about 60hz gaming

someone should tell him that 60 isnt enough :)

He is always talking about GAME tick rate, not VIDEO tick rate. Notice how he says hertz at times. 60fps and 120fps at the game would make little difference and it would hog servers to the point of absurdity. You can say what you will about how Q3 worked better at 125hz or whatever but that's just because it was client-controlled; as long as everybody is at a similar tick rate and with responsive enough screen refresh, 60hz is just fine.

The 30/60 tick rate is a good debacle and one that has been going on on games for ages. I'm happy he's pushing for the 60 one as console games have been at 30 for too long and some games do demand more response.

Graphically wise it's a very different matter and he has said that he's not a fan of > 60 fps since it'll be just repeats of the game state but the company has changed their stance on it (see etqw with unlockable framerates for an example).

hmm good point, lets hope that you are right

He is always talking about GAME tick rate, not VIDEO tick rate

Client side, these are the same thing. If you want unique frames (ie, not duplicate identical frames), then the client must go around the game loop and predict an updated gamestate so that you get a different display.

With the D3 engine prior to ETQW, they locked the client and server to the same tickrate, so in Q4 when you're si_fps 120, server and client tickrates are both 120hz.

Players are able to tell (using this fluffy "smoothness" concept) the difference between the higher framerates. The interesting question is how much of this is simply the higher responsiveness on visual feedback, or whether a player can tell the effects of running the server at a higher tickrate (ie, more accurate processing of movement == more accurate dodge etc).

Possibly the ETQW solution of spliting the two tickrates again (although locked to multiples of each other?) will show whether its only the clientside that is important, although in ETQW you're not getting the same high speed movement as in Q4 so its not a full test. Q3 having a low server tickrate possibly already demonstrates this.

Carmacks ideas of tracing every bit of latency throughout the whole system should be making you guys happy though, and I too dont remember him making an explicit "120 isnt that much better" comment this time either ;)

"Carmacks ideas of tracing every bit of latency throughout the whole system should be making you guys happy though"

didnt he just say that about the mac and not the pc ?

Still worth someone actually doing it though, surely? :)

etqw 30Hz tickrate is awfull
gives me headache, having difficulties to follow "serverside objects" (players)
increasing tickrate would be cool, but I doubt it could be done, the game already having difficulties to keep up at the actual rate, showing lag and pl, though it's still beta

"gives me a headache". That sounds like you are getting 30fps clientside? You can have 125fps clientside while the server does 30 in etqw.

I got at average 60 fps, that's not the problem
I've tried to explain what I suppose here

> Q3 having a low server tickrate possibly already demonstrates this.

minus "possibly". :P

I think there's very little argument these days that CPMA has the best online experience of any game, and technically it's running at 30fps.

It IS important, CRUCIALLY important, to have client and server rates uncoupled, but people need to stop freaking out over low SIMULATION tickrates unless they're in fundamentally-flawed lockstep schemes like pre-142 Q4.

Wow lets not too your own horn there. I think that is very arguable as many don't like air control. I would look at WoW as the best online experience seeing as how they have blown any FPS player numbers out of the water. Many would say in the FPS world wolf et or even q2 had an awesome and happy community indicating a nice online play rate and feel. Personally I don't like the feel of cpma myself so your comment doesn't further the conversation or help in the explanation what so ever.

In case arQon doesn't come back to defend himself here, I'm pretty sure by "best online experience" he was referring solely to the netcode (since that is the context), rather than making the more heady claim that CPMA is the best online gameplay experience around. Although I wouldn't put the latter claim past him... ;) (and I would actually agree w/ the latter claim personally)

Whereas your random attack and complete inability to understand the point IS helpful?
You're truly one of "us" now, it seems. :(

I suppose that's what I get for trying to for once avoid the overused and generally-misunderstood term "netcode".

"Any game" refers to any game and saying that your mod out does any game in net code is naive. There are a lot of games out there and many that have better net code done simply because of how it is layed out differently than fps type of game styles. So no I didn't miss the point at all I just brought attention to the completely random side of your comments, that are apparently just terribly miss represented in your comments. :P

I wouldn't say I am one of you all now, ;), just think it was odd to make such a claim from a mod author.

Fair enough. I tend to forget there ARE other games than FPS's. :P

Nope, you have more than 5 posts and have criticised arQon. Welcome :)

onoes, ihni :D

With a tick rate of 60Hz that means there are 16.66ms between frames. We all know a 16ms ping makes a noticeable difference to gameplay and you can feel the lag when using hit scan weapons. You also have to consider that it will be added on top of your current ping so if your ping is 25ms the actual delay to getting a frame is 41ms, which is unacceptable.

John Carmack only cares about graphics and doesn’t give a shit about gameplay or the quality of the multiplayer experience. The earlier Quakes were excellent by accident and most of the advanced techniques that made them so good were entirely accidental. Carmack hates these techniques as has been illustrated by the Q3Test when he tried to remove strafe jumping by adding a delay after the second jump or by the QuakeCon where rocket jumping was banned in Quake 3. Personally I have no faith that we’ll ever see a decent multiplayer game from id again.

I concur.

- Señor Tachyon Ultra

Lol, amusing considering the q3 that was shipped and released was simply put Carmack's pride and joy and what he LOVES to play. Also one of the most outspoken communities and followers to date. Gosh he sucks at game design, but wait isn't he the coder anyway? You guys act as if only one person is working at this company. They have made an icon of themselves and it hasn't been by accident. Down playing what this company has done or can do is simply unintelligent speak.

While he's the coder I think he also had a major impact (for the better) on the gameplay via questions of implementation and simplicity and elegance in design.

interesting.

to bad its cut off.

japp I hope roger has the Q&A too for release.

I think I saw him leave during the q&A so I don't think that is coming.

omg i asked one of the questions!

Thanks for the video Roger, nice for those of us that wasn't there.

Would it be possible to release a video or audio of the whole keynote?

i'm 20 mins in right now
there is some weird bug crawling all over him!!!
wtf

anyway i hope its not cut off as people say, maybe a full one will come out in a few days if it is cut off.

thanks for the video

interesting to see him championing smooth and responsive gameplay so much

Awesome :)

why do game makers think 60 fps is enough? Do they not think of lag? Fps stuttering and other crap that can possibly happen? Do they never play online? Or are they just stupid to the fact?

In terms of display, 30Hz/60Hz is a standard for TV(NTSC) signal - so for consoles you're not going to see above 60fps anytime soon.

Even PCs though, with current LCD tech, you're not going to see anything above 60Hz or 75Hz. I don't think DVI specification even allows for anything in the region of 100+Hz.

Why is it cut off?

lol 60 fps enought! yeah mb for TETRIS or super mario bros! :(

are u fucken fagget dissin mario and tetris

RogeR1 could ask about details on what they mean by web-based

i kinda remember picking it up from somewhere(maybe from this video) that you go and download it and then play it. rtcw: et ? i am not sure tho.

i hate to hear him talk about how he likes q3a so much but that he didn't want to push his view on everyone else. he needs to step up and realize that he's the smartest guy in the room, and that the people pushing these other crapy directions within the company aren't doing them any good, and that returning to the q3a direction in development is the right step.

also, try to hire czm for this 'second team'. ultrono arena for life.

But again there is the point that while most people here love q3a (at least as a base) it was a commercial flop.

bad marketing is the cause
if street fighters 2 sold like omg, I don't see any reason why a quake gameplay style based game should not sell as much
(meaning they are both arcade games with lot of potential and depth of gameplay)

I don't either, but then I have a login at ESr and never played wow.

internet as we know it didn't even exist when sf2 was launched on snes

yes.

But I was just discrediting myself as a judge of what sell's and what doesn't.

I'm not sure to understand what you're trying to say, but if "wow is what you could call a game which sold, not really sf2", sf2 still sold enough to make enormous profits

if you're trying to say "quake/sf2 is a kind of gameplay of the past, nobody want to play arcade games anymore", that's just bullshits and I guess you already know my opinion if you read journals entries

anyway, clear your thought, I'm not enough brained for shady ones

i still don't get it man.. why is there a need for a new game in the first place? stick with Quake3 and play it..

there still are Street Fighter 2 Turbo tournaments and the game was released in 1993. all it takes is a dedicated community.

what's your point ?
I'm talking about selling well an arcade game and you talk about playing q3 : wtf ? does not compute with the topic

I hate fanboys, especially q3 ones..
FLAME WAR NAO PLS KTHX
x)

btw I don't like q3 enough to "stick with it"
so sorry
good game though

oh nvm then

=)

my point:

You said
1) SF2 sold well.
2) you don't see a reason why quake-gamestyles should not sell.

I didn't comment 1) and agreed to 2) with "I don't either".

The i went on to state that while I don't see a reason why Quake games shuold not sell, I also don't see a reason why wow should sell that much.
Which if you compare sales makes me a very bad judge of what games sell well.

That is all I said.

thanks for clearing it

btw wow sells because that's the new tv zombification ; people have always had a need for daily brain washing

There are a lot of people in the world and the fact is the majority of people don't all like fps types. Besides from what they say they makes games they like and enjoy, not necessarily what everyone and their dog will play or they would have made an mmo by now. ;) I am sure making something they enjoy and people will buy is a huge plus and seems to be working as well.

Plus realize that JC is a coder, not the designer on the team. They have a lot of talent that is evident by the works already produced and many have appreciated.

But the good news is that they announced a new team being built up and working on the fps type games you seem to enjoy, ie Quake0 and a possibility of another Quake arena.

New physics mode czmq3 taking over vq3.

nice t-shirt
definitely a real fascinating individual
guys who can talk for an hour and keep you fascinated are rare ; remembers me of "evening with kevin smith"

http://necromanthus.com/Games/ShockWave/quake3.html

xD

is the questions part up somewhere?

Yep - http://www.quakeunity.com/file=2519

sweet, thanks. +'d.

Find a post by Roger and plus him :)
unrelated... but have you fixed your mouse problems ?

which problem was that? with mx300 i never had a problem, until it broke. now im using a higher sensitivity, so i can use a G3 without problems.

"i never had a problem, until it broke."
That would be it =) You must've pretty much doubled your sensitivity or something now, right ?

yea it broke, so i got a new mx300. :P but then at the beginning of this summer i kinda got a lot less active in gaming, and only randomly trickjumped a bit, so i didnt need that low a sensitivity. so i went from my old 360°/55cm to 540°/55cm. G3 is just fine in this sensi.

the problem with mx300 was the cable. that has happened to two of my mx300's. :P too much swinging it around.

our lord has spoken