cpmas should be same since it dosent matter what fps it is.

It does to some people. Either way you can do the math, right?
edit: Oh, i understand your point. I meant OSP equivalent of 85 or 125 FPS, changed to precise units. Also, changed to single choice.

I would like a faster circlejump in QuakeZero than is the case right now in VQ3

agreed.

its gay as fuck to attack against a good aimer. maybe a bit of acceleration to overall movement also. not too much.

yeah. Q4 type acceleration would be nice, imo.

It's "height" not hight...thanks.

You're very welcome.

Just realised I voted OSP simply because the other choices said something about CPMA...oh well =).

Whatever mode the "normal" jumpheight is when you locked the FPS at 125 in OSP is my vote.

You can change your vote. You know.

Honestly, what is the big deal? This doesn't change the game at all. I didn't understand all the fuss around this a year ago, and I don't get it now. CPMA is loaded with features that 4 year old OSP will never have, including smart bots, not to mention consistent is always better...

OLDSCHOOL PRIDE !!!!!!!111

well i was once on that side, people that play osp are happy with it... so why change.. its not like the 'good' players use bots or anything.. it works fine for what they use their game for so why change..

why whine, whiner?

you're depressing

What the hell?!

how do you even get up in the morning?

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you?

agreed. it's not like it takes away all the fun and turns the game into UT or something. i still enjoy it as much as i did during OSP days.

Only reason here would be maybe some ctf maps that have gaps for 125hz physics, but I don't play ctf so I don't know.

yea i don't play CTF either. dunno about other gametypes really.. it's fine for duel though imo.

Question is, will the old maps actually work in the new QuakeZero/Live game?

well atleast the duel maps have worked in both CPMA as well as OSP so they should probably work in QZ if the movement is like either one of them.

edit: btw, what's Quake Live?

I think Quake Live is the actual name of the game now, not Quake Zero :).

And yes I understand that maps work cross mod, but I was asking if the old maps will be compatible with the new game (Quake Live) or will we have to remap them. i.e. if you could select the old maps in the folder and copy+past them into Quake Live folder, would they work?

If it ain't broke, why fix it? Especially if you're gonna fuck up the respawn system and the entire movement while "fixing" it...but hey, I got a few brand new cute icons, right?

o_0

"consistent is always better"

talking about physics in terms of a system...... context

Where are these smart bots? Mine keep running into a corner and getting stuck...

/addbot arqon 100

link voted: CPMA, Jump height at 125 FPS in OSP

OSP just feels a 100x better.

There is no cpma 125 fps solution yet?

I don't believe so, although i think some minor fixes are implemented but cpma is still running at 85 fps physics

no, it doesn't

k1ck-puma voted: CPMA, Jump height at 125 FPS in OSP

chill fred

oh really!

its not that simple, because you cant just change the jump height to emulate the osp 123 fps physics...
for example look at what sync wrote here: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1489551#pid1489551

it is.

sync was just warning about q3 original maps being made for 85fps physics jump height ; so in 125fps physics some jumps become possible, as the mh exemple in q3dm13, but wern't intended to be possible when the maps were created.
but anyway : everybody is now used to 125fps physics and jump height, so who cares anymore ?

it is not

as sync and arqon wrote:
"increasing the jumpheight means that:
1.) Its easier to jump over items and miss them (armors, flags, etc)
2.) Its easier to jump over explosions, avoiding more of the splash damage
3.) ...
All of these can be fixed by altering the effected systems (increasing item sizes, increasing splash sizes or damages), but then of course each of those changes have further impacts on the game."

"You missed a few other issues BTW, e.g. the distance you can fall without taking damage"

I didn't meant ops bugged physics only affects jump heights

I mean you can actually just change the jump height to emulate the osp 125fps physics (every other factors you quoted will be affected then too, I believe including the distance you can fall without taking damage)

all these things are different when you play in osp. the game has already been played like that for years...

exactly

GUArd voted: CPMA, Jump height at 85 FPS in OSP

I tryed to run around the maps all playing duel maps with OSP and CPMA vq3, i can say the time of LAP is the same :) you jump a bit higher , but it not gain you much more speed :) in ztn u wont notice any changes.. in dm6 harder a bit to do bridge-rail jump (a bit) and harded to get YA jumpad to 2nd colon and thats all.. :) even on CPMA i didn`t hit the head in 2nd floor and dont stop :D
On pt4 same problem with jumpads, but its ok.. :)
Strange that ppl feel so much diferent, try to play few days CPMA vq3 and you will feel much better i fink :)

dunno about CTF and big TDM maps like cpm4, mb there your speed changes a lot with OSP pshysic, but dunno.. :)

still all jumps possible to made in CPMA vq3 ..
and realy i don`t care, if 125 osp physic will back, will a adapt in 1-2 days :) so wtf is the problem guys?

We cant be such dinosaurs to play an 8 years old game and being unable to adapt to a slight difference that makes the game movement more solid. CPMA with jump heigh at 125 would be yet another different game, it wont play as OSP, and it wont be CPMA/VQ3.

-> CPMA, Jump height at 85 FPS in OSP

w0rt3x voted: OSP/BASEQ3, Jump height varies with FPS

I mainly play CPM, but I equally like VQ3/OSP, and as it's less popular...

Would vote for 125 FPS if I'd go for CPM.

emulating 125fps

for the simple fact it's more fun

i prefered the old OSP movement, i could actually do b2r. CPMA is better for every other aspect of course

l2p

Since CPMA has huge compatibility problems (Vista, NVidia8800, Core 2 Duo), I say fix it or fuck it.
Otherwise, I'm all for 125fps movement.

what compatibility problems? i'm on core 2 duo, 8800GT but Windows XP because Vista really isn't ready for gaming IMO. q3 and CPMA work great here.

oftopic!

Why ground damage was removed from q3? i know u can vote it, but by default? whyyy? !!!

> veal voted: CPMA, Jump height at 85 FPS in OSP

i hate jumping over items... or increase the itemheight : )

> Jump height varies with FPS: 17%

Proof that 17% of voters are so retarded they should be sterilised for the sake of future generations.

This is why the only attention we pay to polls is for the amusement at cosmic levels of stupidity.

we can't all be supergeeks

Yeah, that makes sense. Ignore a super majority because there is always a minority.

Rather cater to the minority of smarties than the majority of morons.

What does that have to do with anything? Kinda funny you call people morons while you're not seeing that the overwhelming majority wants fixed physics, simply with higher jump height?

It is highly likely something similar has occurred.

Please, tell me, what sort of distribution function you used to calculate such likelyhood? Are you sure you used correct FPS value?

i think he means that this debate already happened years ago when CPMA went from 1.1 to 1.2 (or was it 1.0 to 1.1, i forget now). that was when the bugged movement was fixed and a lot of people whined about it. however, the CPMA dev team probably had good reasons for it.

awm

" Sometimes a majority means that all the fools are on the same side "

Load q3dm13 in CPMA, vote VQ3 gameplay, jump to Mega from below. Consider your comment. This pole is funny because no one understands the options correctly.

uh what?

My comment has nothing to do with the fact that one majority wants the 'floaty' feeling or that super majority wants fixed physics, regardless of how the options describe it.
It has to do with the idea that ignoring polls because there is always %10 that vote the 'wrong way' is a _definition_ of a cosmic level of stupidity.

If you give options to a poll, there is no "wrong vote", as you've said it's people who don't really understand the issue correctly and that's just it, misunderstanding.

Not directed to you -

I really don't care how Quake Zero will be, it will be a fresh game with nostalgia in it, as long as it's fresh, it can have all the changes it wants.

What my problem with CPMA is, that it fixes all the bugs we've learned to play with from 1999, and we are now 2008. There's really no need to fix issues with such an old game where people got used to play with those bugs. At this point in time, those bugs are features of the game. I could go on and on, list fixes of the original game in CPMA that only make the game worse for me and the majority of OSP players, as said hands down to the great developers of CPMA, but it isn't Quake 3 anymore. If those changes/fixes would come in the first year of Quakes release they would be very welcome, but after 5+ years they just change the game to oblivion to a point where I say, this isn't Quake3 anymore.

And I don't think I'm the only one. The problem here is, that people don't understand that reasoning and ArQon is on the front of this parade, he only sees what good he does to the code but totaly misses the aspect of a player who plays the game since 1999 and knows the game with the bugs.

You seem to be missing the fact that CPMA had this fixed way before CPL decided to use it and vq3 players had to switch.

Yes, I'm not really following the CPL or anything, I wasn't even refering to CPL issues with that. I just said why OSP people prefer OSP, still, after all these years over CPMA.
As said, with a new Quake game, they can make/change the movement to whatever they like, it's a fresh new game, I even welcome some changes, but fixing an old exsisting game after so many years really has no point but alienating the community. All in all, this has nothing to do with the question in the poll, I just feel about rambling.

i see :)

you don't listen to the 67% because of the 15% stupid people? you are an idiot

i guess you can say the poll is flawed when that amount of people votes that. who knows how many voted for 125 fps without knowing what it means?

I think that most of those votes were just trolling or something
most people dont take these polls seriously

Anyone knows if the 125fps OSP feel can be emulated in OSP by slightly reducing the gravity?
That could give the floaty feeling back but I dont know if it would break other elements of the gameplay...

no

why do so many want 125 fps vq3? isn't 85 fps jumpheight the way it is now, and isn't that fine?

fine for me

Probably cause they like to play what they are use to and not jumping on the bandwagon cause they have to!

TBH i prefer the feel of 125 fps play, but i really could care less its pretty much the same damn thing.

the 125fps speed of OSP really made duelling way more interesting. slowing everything down, and increasing the ability for players to aim is just a bad remedy, and the only thing that's come from this is to satisfy arQons tunnelvision'd idea that a technical right = gameplay right. OSP's 125fps physics WORKED and was far more interesting to watch, players could be more aggressive if they wanted. but now the advantage is given to aimier players. the only justification i ever heard was 'it was a bug in the code' - so was strafe jumping, it was a fucking accident, and it's not like that isn't common knowledge. **RAGE** =D

oh and something that also raged the shit out of me, cpm players saying that osp players are too bad at movement to get used to it, and that's why they don't want to change. well i'm not even going to elaborate on how retarded and narrow minded that is. STFU AND GET OVER YOURSELVES!

Clarified the options even more for more fun :)

You've changed what the options say, now the poll makes sense, before people were voting for the CPMA physics to be as they already are (fixed physics with 125 FPS jump height).

No, they weren't. I simply changed the labels of what people always actually considered, if not you. If you couldn't understand exactly what they were voting for, you have some sort of a problem. Even more, no one would be confused if someone simply bothered to explain things like someone did in the topic forum, but about a year ago.

arQ and syncerror should do an article to explain it a little more clearly. That's not to say you should get the bugged behaviour you're after.

This is why I interviewed arQon last year, he obviously didn't have enough time/motivation to do it.
Also, you mean "One" should not? I have no problems with the slower version, this is hardly of any importance to the fun I get out of q3. If I want to jump around like a mountain goat I play cpm.

i developed some evidence the last 2 days on the topic which could be tested even by unexperienced fps players.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
timestopping: by hand and eyesight, because osp and cpma are missing ms and i wanted to use external timestopping method
for good accuracy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. test :

testing the fallingspeed fps dependence in a map where you spawn in air and you are falling down a very long tunnel.
all values are seconds.hundredth

cpma listenserver
--30fps:16.78 16.78 16.79 16.75
--85fps:16.77 16.75 16.78 16.77
-125fps:16.76 16.77 16.75 16.79
-333fps:16.77 16.68 16.82
1000fps:16.82 16.74


cpma dedicatedserver
--30fps:16.95 16.91 16.99 17.02 17.02 17.00 16.87
--85fps:16.88 16.86 16.93 16.93
-125fps:16.90 16.89 16.92
-333fps:na
1000fps:na


cpma is fps independent in fallingspeed.
the difference between listen and dedicated 100ms is because dedicated needed always longer to get the player into startingposition of the map somehow(or till info is sended to client maybe, as you can see the same counts for osp dedicated too)
--------------------------
osp listenserver
--30fps:16.59 16.67 16.70 16.60 16.67 16.68
--85fps:16.49 16.46 16.46 16.40 16.53 16.47
-125fps:16.76 16.75 16.75 16.77 16.78
-333fps:16.95 16.85 16.90 16.93 16.90(ob-bug)
1000fps:14.93 14.98 15.01 15.04

osp dedicatedserver
--30fps:16.89 16.91 16.86 16.89
--85fps:16.62 16.68 16.68
-125fps:17.33 17.35 17.39 17.24 17.34 17.28 17.31
-333fps:na
1000fps:na


osp has different fallingspeeds for different fps values.
comparison 125fps cpma to 125fps osp : ca. 400ms difference during only 17seconds ! in osp you stay longer in air with 125fps.
a huge difference in gameplay ! but not enough proof in this case.
so why proplayers are talking osp is faster and more responsive:
#################################################
#################################################
2.test:

testing horizontal speed -

map is cos1_beta7b the long runroom: from wall to wall.
minutes.seconds.hundredth
dedicatedserver - only running = press forward, wall to wall

osp 125fps:6.49.10 6.49.16 6.49.14 6.49.14
cpma125fps:6.49.02 6.49.05 no more tests needed


now the same with: forward + jumping (no mouse or strafe)

osp 125fps:6.39.65 (random) 6.45.05(triggered) 6.21.85(timed !) 6.35.62 (timed) 6.37.65(timed) 6.44.97(triggered)
osp 125fps:6.43.16 (random) 6.44.65(triggered) 6.27.39(timed !) 6.41.25(random, but holded jumpbutton very long for testing)

cpma125fps:6.49.14 (random) 6.49.06(triggered) 6.49.00 (timed jumping)

listenserver
osp
125fps:
6.45.43(triggered)
6.45.13(triggered)
6.36.05(timed jumping keypresses)
6.35.39(timed jumping ..)

in cpma running = running+jumping in speedcomparison.
in osp running and running+jumping is very different, and it depends how you time the jump !

for example: in osp the time where i triggered the jumpbutton as fast as possible (thats ofc the mode with less faults) was
6mins 45seconds every time.

compare this to the time where i timed the jumping best :
6mins 22seconds.
and now lets compare these 6mins 22seconds to the time
of cpma with 6mins 49seconds. (in cpma its not important how you time the jumping - the result is always the same, you can press the jumpbutton whenever you want if we talk of speed)

27secs difference on the same distance but in only 7mins.
15mins = around 1minute difference
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
conclusion:
its not easy to 1. recognise and 2. rate all differences.
physics are very complex , and other! things arent the same neither.
like i said before both mods have their strong sides, and some other mods are more advanced in
some other things too. you have to know it all.

so what to do:
the gameplay has to be as responsive, deep and exact feeling as in osp and the code should be as safe as in cpma (minus most of the osp,cpma bugs or q3 bugs that are known too)
----------------------------
tried to keep it as easy as possible and only on the topic.

offtopic: i have the last z4 interview in mind where he mentioned something about timenudge weaponbehavior. now i ask myself has the effect he is speaking about maybe to do with the fps physics too ?
or is it netcode?(somehow likely) or ... maybe someone can, or already has explained this in detail and or what the best solution is there.

The timenudge feeling he mentioned was probably the thing they fixed in CPMA that had to do with a few different frames. I remember reading a post by arQon about it where he described the vq3 netcode being that a snapshot is not always accurate to where the player actually is. I don't see how he could dislike having an accurate netcode, though. =P

increase the item height? people are already used to the old item height with the baseq3 "jump height." but you know what? you may as well go ahead and do it, because the latest CPMA's come along and destroyed the item size anyway, so what's the big deal? half of the time when you spawn off of lightning/yellow armor on ztn, you miss mega when trying to strafe by it. fucking ridiculous.

and these damn asshole CPM idiots, arQon especially, who come along pretending like they're holier-than-thou because they play a particular video game and think they know what's best for everyone else can fuck right off. arQon, you're nothing but a half-average computer programmer who came along at the right time to make a quake 3 modification that no one else has felt bored enough to do. I'd hardly say that makes you qualified to even do anything except commit suicide: shut up.

items are the same size, it's just new icons.

also: shut up

Item bounding boxes fixed and aligned, they were extremely asymmetric, items may feel smaller

that's from the changelog of newest cpma ;P

my bad then! i didnt notice any difference.

yes that's why everyone has all of a sudden magically decided to fall short when it comes to item pick-ups all the time!!!

most gamers are like old people, afraid of change.

nothing to do with being afraid of change

independent movement might be technically better but it isn't any more fulfilling or as fun for many (and no that doesn't make them retards), so why not want/discuss alternative methods?

im talking about icons here

ah, that's what you get for answering two threads at once.

was there any reason to change the items in the first place, apart from being too technically correct?

unless they were the cause of a bug why not just leave them? change for the sake of change? :)

unless of course it has to do with the new icons but I was under the impression the bounding boxes were an engine thing.

np :)

size is because arqon likes a perfect enviroment i think, and icons is one step torwards standalone i believe.

The best way to end this thread is to have different voteable physics in Quake Zero. Unless you have somebody with a different mind set then arqon working at id.

then split people even more?

Either that or just have a chunk of the community missing and have a community the size of q4 right now. Unless id can cater to both parties.

Sadly, I'm sure this is true. In the end, I'm afraid nobody will be happy.

jesus fukin christ, get over it already, both are shit :D

do we really care?
what really matters now is quakezero/quakelive. what i want to know is are they changing or adding any weapons, is keel still going to be available and will it have brightskins. this jump height/physics thing has gone on since cpl chose cpma, they wouldn't change it then i really doubt they'll change it now.

/whine

Preferred Q3 movement : cpm movement
Why isn't there that option ? :(

i perfer osp

I cant explain it I just dont like cpma movement whether its cpm or their version of baseq3 it just doesnt feel right.

regular baseq3 can be buggy and non-responsive
osp is more...stable/reliable...i guess is the way to say it....from my pov atleast.

I really hate the way movement was changed after they dropped osp and implemented it in CPMA. My first reason to not play anymore, the good feel is gone.

Is there any way to configure a CPMA server to have OSP Movement? It would be cool.

\callvote gameplay vq3



...and the rage continues

That's not a 125 FPS OSP Movement at all, thx anyway. :-)