Walter: haha

I get the boosters boostin'
I get computers putin'

.

i still really dont understand why u didnt enter ESWC USA. do u have any ambition other then to get +'s on this website?

he did and lost. bad.

no he didnt

oh really?

I seem to remember the big shitstorm, some emo posts etc. but please enlighten me, who did kgb win against in the first round of the qualifier...

plus me plz

sounds like loosing to me...

oops, i thought this was about z4 :D

hahaha

are there demos of that? :D

well walter couldn't possibly give up his job at walmart while other quake 3 players manage college degrees and still attend lans, even though walter is usually online 24/7

His hacks are no think on the lan

1. u cheated so it wasn't actual training.

stop talking about one of the all time greats in that way
those guys were actually great players back then. this was when quake was about skill. nowadays, noone good likes to practice and play it anymore, just because everyone knows every trick on every map and +forward and shaft works
well, actually, av3k is great, i am so glad there is still someone with talent to show the +forwarders, the shafters and the campers
still, noone today is a match to what zero4 did back in the day

Thanks, Phil Hellmuth.

finally he honours cooller in that interview, kinda nice from him imo.

and gl for the eswc-finals! \o/

yeah, I almost got goose bumps :D

good job :)

cypher and avek is so all arqon....

arQon had nothing to do with QuakeLive, I believe.

I think your sarcasm-meter needs to be checked upon....

You're just bitter because you lost to ZeRo4 on T4 in 2003!

Stop beeing an almanac. WTF do you NOT know?

maybe that fazz won in 2003

and zero4 in the year after at eswc nations :>

The way to a vagina

Nice interview dude, I have enjoyed it. :-)~~

He complains about the CPMA physics as if OSP was a basis on which to draw accurate results. He thinks rails shouldn't hit when they do, and miss when they shouldn't, because he's used to having to make up for shoddy netcode.

I do agree with him that it would be better to make new maps instead of reinventing the wheel, though.

Never understand why people defend cpm like that man. As far as my experience goes playing cpm, rails hit that SHOULDNT hit, the amount of times i seem to rail someone through a wall or 2cm away is rediculous to hit a constant 50%+ rail and rockets that seem to just suck people into them lol.

Really preferred osp myself after playing both, aim actually seemed a skill back then, now if u cant aim you must be handicapped.

CPMA*

Also, lol.

CPMA uses different rendering so while it takes the time to kinda draw your railtrail, the model already moved on. this is only visual and got nothing to do with actually hitting afaik

cpma fanboy ?
just listen to the guys who know how to play the game.

So how 'bout that OSP mod? Still not done, eh?

Great interview, particularly around 6-10 minutes when he's talking about the state of the game. Everything he says is absolutely right - all aim and rushing your opponent, no strategy, can't defend with rockets, maps played out etc.

He also says the game isn't as fun and that's also completely true becuase without the strategy all you have is a two player free for all where aim is the only deciding factor. Where's the fun in that?

He talks about some of these issues being addressed in the "next game" but what is the next game? Quake Live? While the lg and rail are less powerful most problems remain and the absence of strategy is even more pronounced due to the increased number of powerups on duel maps (three armours and a mh on t7, adding a mh to t2). With so many powerpus both players end up fully loaded and once again it all comes down to aim and no strategy.

Jesus, all I do these days is whine. I used to play the game instead of whining but sadly the game's no longer worth playing. I need to find a new hobby. Fencing looks fun.

the difference is QL is a work in progress. we can only hope it turns into the game we all want

when did you turn into a complete wuss?

:( i still can be a bitch

get bitchin!

Well the beauty of qlive is it can deliver content dynamically, which is the future of games really.

I just hope they let players know each time it updates a change that could affect game play.

Do you not feel that with more 'power-ups' that gives traditionally weaker opponents a better chance to fight on equal par with the 'problem players'? Problem players being the lg heavy aim-whores.

I feel a semi-intelligent player with mediocre aim will win more games than the dumb aim whore who can't or move quickly enough. Guess you might disagree, and it's especially irrelevant since most of the top level players all have a certain level of movement, intelligent and what not. ;)

“Do you not feel that with more 'power-ups' that gives traditionally weaker opponents a better chance to fight on equal par with the 'problem players'?”

No because a player with poor aim but good strategy and decision making could control the powerups (I’m using popwerups as a collective term for armour and megahealth) and win confrontations by having more armour despite their inferior aim. With multiple powerups on the map and non-sychronous respawn timings (armour 25sec, megahealth 35sec) it is impossible to lock down the map so your opponent will always get a few free powerups. Regardless of how well you control the map every few minutes a situation will arise when the red armour and megahealth are respawning simultaneously which will often cause your opponent to receive an unearned powepup. Through no strategy or action of their own they will be put on an even footing (one has ra, the other has mh) and the player with the better aim will take control of the map. In summary, the more powerups there are the more chance both players will have equal heath and armour causing the game to become entirely decided by aim.

While I think players should be rewarded for having a good aim, the game should be entirely dependent on aim and in the past it wasn’t. Take the original q3toureny4 which had just one armour and a 2min megahealth. With just one armour the map had a focal point and strategy could be applied in the defence or attack of this focal point. A player with a poor aim could control the map by knowing where their opponent was coming from and suppressing their movement using pre-emptive rockets. The map was about more than just aim, it was about controlling the higher ground, limiting your opponent’s movement, keeping them away from the rail gun, prediction where they would attack from, monitoring your opponent’s position, decision making, timing the armour, knowing when to leave the top floor to get health and ammo etc. The original t4 was a very strategic map and wasn’t just totally aim focused.

They destroyed it with pro-tourney4 by changing it to two yellow armours (one each – best aim wins) and putting the teleporter in. No longer could you control the map from the top floor because your opponent could just come thought the teleporter and your strategic advantage was immediately gone. The map became all aim because opponents would charge through the teleporter and rely on their rail aim and the player with the best aim wins. No focal point you could defend, powerups everywhere, no strategy, just aim.

Quakeworld dm4 was very similar to the ordinal q3tourney4 with a lot of strategy involved in winning. It was about controlling the high ground, spamming grenades to limit your opponents movement, knowing when to come down from the top floor to get ammo and armour, bluffing your opponent into thinking you were still on the top floor waiting for them while you were away collecting amour and ammo, positioning yourself to best take advantage of the higher ground etc. Like the original t4 a good aim was an advantage (as it should be) but it wasn’t the be all and end all of the game.

When people talk about the game becoming all aim they generally talk about the power of the lg and rail. However, it’s the map design, number of powerups and powerup respawn times that have made the game entirely aim focused. QuakeLive is making this even worse by adding a red armour and 35sec megahealth to tourney2 and with maps like the abysmal toureny7 with its 3 armours and a 35sec megahealth. There’s no longer a focal point to the maps and thus no strategy and as zero4 says you can’t defend with rockets because there’s no focal point to defend. id’s objective with Quake Live seems to be to make duels a 2 man FFA devoid of strategy and reliant only on aim. Nothing illustrates this better than qztourney7 which became farcical once they added the third room and the third armour and is why I gave up totally and do nothing but whine.

In fact somebody ban me to shut me up. The game’s fucked and there’s no point whining about it; I just need to move on. Sadly it looks like the local fencing club only meets once a week when I want to duel every day so it looks like that’s a no go as my new hobby.

"Regardless of how well you control the map every few minutes a situation will arise when the red armour and megahealth are re-spawning simultaneously which will often cause your opponent to receive an unearned power-up."

I agree with pretty much everything you said bar this sentence, though it's not a case of disagreeing, more I advocate a different style of play, I guess.

I personally think that a small amount of 'random' makes the game more watchable, as it makes it a lot easier for an intelligent player to get back into the match, for that exact reason you mentioned.

Complete map control is all well and good, but perfect game mechanics actually work for and against the players, especially when spectators are concerned. If someone has map control you're forcing player B to continually face the stronger opponent at significant disadvantage, is that fun to watch?

By having more openings the game doesn't advocate luck, but it certainly allows a variety of play styles to flourish. Given players a respite during matches isn't necessarily that bad, is it? I mean, I'd much rather see two players going at it with similar health/armour instead of someone with 100 health frantically scrambling through the map trying to pick up a weapon to go against someone who is fully stacked.

“I personally think that a small amount of 'random' makes the game more watchable, as it makes it a lot easier for an intelligent player to get back into the match, for that exact reason you mentioned.”

True, it may be a bit more exciting but my problem with it is it’s just not fair. It’s like having a rule in football where the losing team gets a free goal if the other team goes 2-0 up – sure it would make it a closer game and thus more exciting but it’s entirely unfair. I think powerups should be earned by fighting your opponent for control of them not given randomly, which is what they’re doing with Quake Live.


”Complete map control is all well and good, but perfect game mechanics actually work for and against the players, especially when spectators are concerned. If someone has map control you're forcing player B to continually face the stronger opponent at significant disadvantage, is that fun to watch?”

For me, the imbalance makes the game more strategic because it forces one player to play defensively while the other is forced to attack and this adds extra strategic depth. Retaking control of q3tourney4 required as much strategy as staying in control because you were at a distinct disadvantage. Charging in and trying to out aim your opponent rarely worked because of the massive armour difference, so you had to use pre-emptive rockets and hit and run tactics to weaken your opponent before going in with a full assault. I find this extra strategic depth far more fun to watch than simply watching an aiming contest.


“I'd much rather see two players going at it with similar health/armour instead of someone with 100 health frantically scrambling through the map trying to pick up a weapon to go against someone who is fully stacked.”

The problem with that is if two players have equal health/armour the only thing that will differentiate them is aim. The reason I liked Quakeworld and the first few years of Quake 3 was because players had to be multi-faceted with good strategy and decision making skills as well as just aim. This move in Quake Live to having opponents with the same amount of health/armour is for me the thing that is doing the most damage to the game.

Yea I agree very much with all your viewpoints, to many powerups is crap :/

My favorite match ever is still zero4 vs lakerman on t4, while there still was floordamage. I really miss that extra level it takes the game to.
I also miss osp where it was less aim than now, and ofc higher jumps <3

Difference is the player isn't getting a free frag, just isn't punished as harshly for going behind.

You can still play strategically on an equal footing - feint back, act weak, cover tracks and then attack. Sun Tzu :)

Anyway, player aim has progressed to such a level that some players will have to revert back to a strategic playstyle in order to beat them. Realising that they cannot outaim them in a straight 1v1 fight, they will need to hit sneaky picks and then take advantage.

wtf honestly

"The problem with that is if two players have equal health/armour the only thing that will differentiate them is aim."

Wrong. Have you played q3? If you think the only thing that determines whether you win a fight with equal footing is aim then you're on crazy pills.

Also:

"With multiple powerups on the map and non-sychronous respawn timings (armour 25sec, megahealth 35sec) it is impossible to lock down the map so your opponent will always get a few free powerups. Regardless of how well you control the map every few minutes a situation will arise when the red armour and megahealth are respawning simultaneously which will often cause your opponent to receive an unearned powepup."

Wrong. If you're good this will not happen.

This is all irrelevant, as being able to get perfect control of a map would mean that the game would be entirely down to spawns (assuming the players play flawlessly, which is a pipe dream), or lucky mistakes that the other player can capitalize upon. The down player needs SOMETHING for the map to be interesting.

i was actually shocked at how they fucked up dm13

wasn't that map already remade as a pro version or something similar (nodm9), changing items layout to balance the map ?
why did ql's dev team think the map needed a rebalance ? it was already done, by players

dm13 didn't even need to be remade :

there is a pro version. it is not allright either. there is also nodm9. but what id did with the map this time is something beyond reason

the latter always rewarded those with better aim

I wouldn't mind seeing super accurate hitscan weapons totally removed(rail, lg, etc) they always seem to end up dominating most Quake games given enough time. I don't mind SSG if it has a big spread. Projectiles should dominate...

trust this man. he knows how to use rockets, played quake on a 22.8k connection for how many years?

pg fanboi

funny, just yesterday I watch killmas vs. phoenix on nodm9 where phoenix had better aim (maybe except for rl) and did a lot more damage, still killmas won and would have won ore convincingly if he hadn't rushed at some points (you know the in your face aim whore approach).

That's because dm13 has a well thought out item placement and area design.

You can ambush the player at all the powerful items and have to comit into close range fights (no rail). The map isn't perfect though :P

.

That's what they said with Q4.

Some time ago you said something like "QL BEING RUINED" and now you state QL as Q3's successor. Changed your mind, huh? :)

If I was q4 fanboy I would say those qualities aren't exclusive, they can both be true. But since I'm not a q4 fanboy...

MAYBE just MAYBE the things i bitched about were fixed? things change me friend

I thought you had a strong right arm because of wanking, I see now that's it's only because you always have to hold that microphone.

TRUE MC Carmac

the only thing I'm not really agreeing to zero4 is the statement of only cooller, fatality and himself being the best quakers ever. The fact he stopped playing doesnt mean everyone else did, and I do think cypher with his present skills would give all three of them at their top form a very tough match... I think cypher definetly has to be named as one of quakes best duellers of all-time. Especially if you're considering how the overall skill has increased since 2002

EDIT: (and especially if you're considering cypher did beat him on quakelive, where the rocket is way more important, and he defeated him on zero4's best map = t4)

You forget when he said after 02 Quake died down a bit but Cooller invented something diffrent in 03 > Cypher has been around for ages.

Cypher's not up there with Cooller, z4 and fat just yet. He probably will be in time, but not yet...

he is

No, he's up there with Fooki and Lexer.

fooki is a newb, don't lump him in with lexer

Both won one major tourney, if memory serves.

Fooki won a tournament vs a tired, jet lagged czm at 6 am after playing all night. Really, he's a jewb.

i love how everyones loves making excuses for czm, even 3 years later. And czm wasn't the only one at that tournament, god you're stupid.

I'm stupid? Fooki even admitted he got lucky. Please don't talk about what you don't know you stupid head.

heh you to have to lucky to win tournaments do you not? unless you are toxjq or cypher or av3k or cooller or czm or..
Hmm.

Oh I forgot, you know more about the conditions than the people that played. Sorry, I should never have questioned you mental superiority....

? you don't get it

czm and the rest of the US team were there days before the event started afaik and he was far from the only one tired...

Way to go, you're an idiot. You're talking about the complete wrong tournament! Nice try though, here's a cookie!

you sure?

pretty sure I remember group pictures of the US team arriving early because wasn't there a ctf team present also? and notice how I said 'afaik' and didn't dispute the fact he was the only tired player

hurt your pride much?

czm played with c9 (cl0ck viju etc)

thought so

Cypher is a robot but has won ONE international tournament...

yes man!! only 1.

many good players have won only 1 big tournament....

i think cypher dont win this eswc!!! but he will be top3

masters + quakecon?

1+1 = 1

only when the one 1 is magical!

just sit, download the zero4 and fatality final games demos of the past when they were at top, enjoy, then download cypher's final of eswc masters, enjoy, and come back giving me your impressions.

It's quite clear to me.

Maradona and Pele > Messi and C. Ronaldo ?
Bjorn Borg and McEnroe > Nadal and Federer ?
Carl Lewis > Usain Bolt ?

Zero4 > cypher ??


BTW: only one tournament.

Q4 eswc 2006 ?
Q3 masters of Paris 2008?
QL quakecon 2008 ?

And I might be missing some data...

I think the point is that we're considering Quake 3 players here - Q4 and QL are different games.

Cypher's record in all games is obviously impressive, but if that's your domain of comparison, he doesn't yet stand up to Toxic, Fatal1ty, Vo0, Gitzzz, Moon, Grubby, Thresh, Boxer, Oov, July, Yellow, Jaedong (and virtually every Starcraft pro, for that matter). And that's just off the top of my head - I'm sure I'm forgetting others.

Cypher has won two tournaments, one in Quake 3 and one in Quake Live (ESWC2006 was won by Winz, not Cypher). As amazing as that is, there are many players who've done more.

Ok, you answered me on my first argument, which was past experience in big lan events (lemme remind you his 18 years).

Now answer me on his skills (movement, aim, tactics) which have nothing to envy from any of them 3 top players.

because lemme quote you: "As amazing as that is, there are many players who've done more"

I'm yet to see anyone playing as good as he did. That's the main thing innit ?

No, his "skill" as you perceive it is totally irrelevant. The only thing that can legitimately describe a player's ability is results.

results ? They're about as irrelevant as the 'skill'...

If you have never seen anyone else have a better aim, movement, positionning and strategy over such a high level and highly covered competition, you should be able to have an idea.

Zero4 himself didn't he mention he was _amazed_ by cypher ?

And he just renewed it at quakecon...

I don't rate people on their palmares, I rate them on their real skill (including the skill it takes to play big lan event finals) and he completely outclassed past champions in my opinion

That's just it - your opinion, which is utterly irrelevant to anyone who doesn't already share it.

your opinion, if you had any "skill" at SEEING "skill" would be the same as me. Point made. He outclassed them AIMWISE, MOVEMENTWISE, POSITIONINGWISE and STRATEGYWISE.

Just check the fucking z4, cooller, czm and fatality demos of the past and see just how cypher outclasses every part of it. CLEAR to anyone speaking truth. Unclear to people trying to start polemics.
And since none of czm, cooller or zero4, NONE OF EM has prooved better than cypher (in fact way weaker) in the recent tourneys, it's just clear. Stop being like "let's wait" like anyone of them could defeat cypher 20-5 on any map. That's simply not possible unless theyre using an aimbot...

EDIT: point me to any demo of zero4, fatality, czm or cooller where any of them outclasses cypher's final versus fox. And I'm saying ANY demo, that can be group stages, semi finals or finals. NONE beats cypher's final at eswc masters. SO comon ? Stop trying...
You could arguably say aim got way better and irrelevant cos of cpma, but every one of the FOUR important basics of duelling just is toping any of them past champions performances EVER.

"CLEAR to anyone speaking truth."

This post could seriously be used in a textbook as an example of circular reasoning.

You do not have any actual reasons to support your statement. You're basically saying "anyone who can see it can see it", which is like claiming god exists because you experienced him personally. You will not convince anyone who doesn't already share your belief. You may be right, you may be wrong. But until you can explain why Cypher is more skilled, evidenced by objectively verifiable fact, you are just another opinion-touting fanboy.

this reply...

lmfao.

How can you even compare what ive said to the argument of belief in god.

If you can't see the skill difference between a div4 ctf noob and a EC winner one, I can tell you'll have trouble recruiting new skilled players :)

It HAS to be a bit subjective, I'm sorry. But I maintain that if you watch any zero4 demo of some past big final event and you watch any of the cypher's recent final event (be it eswc masters, quakecon or eswc finals) you might realize, if you're honest that is, that cypher is better on every aspect of the game. POINT MADE.

PS: I will read your post if you're to ever reply, but I won't answer it since you're probably gonna play on the argument part which always works when you've got nothing else to say, but is so useless in this case..

You lost this long ago. The only problem I have with what you're saying is that you're presenting opinion as fact.

cypher being a better player 9 years down the line.

NO FUCKING SHIT

man you're fucking stupid.

(su)

No, he's right.

So back in 1996 it was perceived to be impossible for a moto x rider to do a backflip, if a rider back then dominated the scene for 10 years and retired will you consider him to have superior skills than someone who can land a bouble backflip + all his other tricks today, but who has only competed in one major event?

imo I have only ever seen the level of skill in terms of movement, aim and control in a couple of previous matches from cooller/keeper/unkind. For Cypher it seems pretty much the norm to be almost godlike.

But like Aaron said, you can't compare today's players with yesterdays players in terms of skill, but when you do, Cypher comes out on top regardless of previous results.

There's an obvious difference between Quake and Motocross that you're conveniently ignoring: Quake is a directly competitive sport, motocross is indirect.

What I mean by this is that Quake players are interdependent, they play against each other. What matters is the interaction between them, not any particular external attribute. As such, the outcome is all-important, regardless of how it came about. And the only way to compare the achievements of different players is to compare their results. This is the case for all directly competitive sports.

Motocross riders, by contrast, perform in relation to an externally-defined set of objectives. With Motocross there's still room for subjective debate (as it's a judged sport like gymnastics or diving). A better example would be swimming or athletics, where the objective is time. Either way, achievement is defined in terms of these external criteria. I'll say it again: we can compare the times of athletes because we have defined achievement in this way. This cannot be said of Quake or Tennis.

What I am saying is quake requires a complex set of skills and can't be compared to any timed event or just simple player vs player mechanics. Take the trick jumpers of today versus the trick jumpers of the past when it just started. There is that element of skill in working with the games physics. Swimming and athletics are linear, it does not require that diverse skills, except for medium and long distance running that actually requires some strategy. Therefore again you can't measure skill in terms of time or results alone. The steeple chase is the best example probably as it requires a more diverse set of skills where the guys today fly over the obstacles, back then they did not.
Quake is not a sprint from start to finish, so you can't measure skill in terms of result alone. Zero4 also talks about this evolution of how games was played back then in Quake 1 days, where people used more sneaky tactics vs the extreme pace it is played today. If you threw in Cypher of today on dm6 of Fatality in 2000, fat would have been fragged 3 times before he even noticed he was fragged the first time. The obvious reason for this is because of the advance in skill. Todays skill > Yesterdays skill although I won't say completely, but regardless of who played who.
That is the argument of skill, not of achievement.

You misunderstand the comparison. Motocross trickjumping is the same as gymnastics. There is still no direct interdependent competition between the participants.

Moreover, your arguments about Quake skill are subjective. Styles come and go in cycles. Zero4, incidentally, made almost exactly the same comments at ESWC 2003. You cannot say how Fatal1ty would've reacted to Cypher's style because he is not in the server to react to it. Given what we currently know, it's equally possible that Cypher's "fast-paced" style (itself debatable) would struggle against Fatal1ty's cautious, control-based play. That certainly was the case with Toxic at the WSVG Q4 finals.

Because there is interdependence, the relationship between apparent skill and final result is hugely more complex than anyone currently understands. There simply has not been enough research done to draw any average conclusions, and even if there had been, there are so many variables that you could never be certain in any particular case.

Hence, the only meaningful comparison is results. Cooller, Jibo and even Cypher himself hold the opposite belief to Zero4. They say the oldschool players are better. Who's right? It would only be possible to answer that if you could give all the players equal preparation time, equal motivation and a conveniently-timed tournament.

I completely understand, this is a nice case of ambiguity.

Back in the day Polos did groundbreaking stuff. I remember his short tut demo's on cyberfight.org where he did the ztn plasma jump with a nice arch. Years later Evil started doing it consistently with 3 plasma's. Today people are moving at more ups, they clip walls, use ledges and spam grenades with more angles and accuracy. Those couple of examples are all of a progression in skill regardless of playing an opponent.

Throw in an opponent and people today hit much higher accuracies, although they have better gear, netcode these days it's still higher, another progress in terms of skill.

The third element is brain vs brain but this you can't really measure.

If all the above is taken in account for you can argue either way because of the complexity of brain vs brain. Leave the last one out and Gypher is a lot more skilled than Fatality ever was in Quake 3.

how can you say carl lewis > usain bolt
?

czm, anyone?

this was my vote actually, as the guy comes out of ph.d training for 3 weeks and shows up at tournaments and still does well. this is also how he won the q3 quakecon tournament in 06 or whatever year that was.

it's also absurd that he's been at the top in three different gametypes (1v1, tdm, ctf).

/fanboy off

not only has he been winning a lot in 3 different gametypes, his style is just sex to watch. i'm really hoping he'll do well at the finals, and really fearing he won't.

didn't he do pretty well with cK at 2002 with RTCW as well? :>

He's without a doubt the best all rounder.

yeah, cK ended up 3rd as far as I remember. But wombat ended up with his Docotors at #1 ;) Tho the whole torunament outcome is still questionable due to this change of maporder by admins just a day before the torunament started.

I might be a fanboy, but what about winz? I know ESR keeps the hate towards him fueled up but you can"t deny his achievements.

The only thing that works against him is that , in 1on1, he was there all along and only started winning when everyone stopped playing.

he was just showing up at 1v1 lans for the hell of it while concentrating year-round on tdm though. ah well, they are all great players, but i'm biased because i spent years/months watching and playing against czm.

Isn't it like, blasphemy for you to support an ex-cK? Shouldn't Joe be coming around with some kinda large stick to beat you about now?

(Although I guess it's still better than you saying ZOMG JOHN Z4 HILL I LOVE YOU considering how raged Joe STILL is over LA7).

actually z4 was/is sick too, i don't care what joe says. he'd never take it away from the players anyway.

iirc there's still server arguing going on over those matches. Not saying that that necessarily takes away from their accomplishment in my eyes though. :)

that entire year or two of debacles sealed the idea in my head that q3 is a fundamentally bad game anyway. it's too netcode dependent and the best online teams were the ones that had the best internet connections and/or sucked up to the refs enough to get their favorite server choice. it really was a travesty, but oh well, life goes on

czm is a great player but, he only started doing well in 2004 when the scene took a massive drop in activity (And caring) and cpm1a/hub3aeroq3 came into the map rotation.

Fat/Z4/QLR were top when everyone cared.

i wasn't exclusively talking about duel though. duel-wise, i agree with you.

In TDM you're right :o

with just 1 tourney win? not a chance

i think he has more skill than the lot of them but he still has loads to achieve to make up for their accomplishments

I counted 3 big tourney wins, sorry... and 2 of em had zero4 playing in.

Besides, you shouldn't wait 10 years before realizing he's just one of the most accomplished dueller ever... It should take you a few duels, I've never seen any of the likes of zero4 or fatality play at that level on the hundreds of demos and gtv I've been on...

Just skip the fanboism part

cypher's got madskills yes but he's not up there just yet.

I think his point was that Quake 3 has evolved over time. Average skill-level has gone up. But if you speak relatively, you can't compare machine guns with musket rifles. Sure, at the time of their creation, musket rifles > all. Now the rifle has evolved into something much more advanced.

But Fatal1ty, Cooller, and Zero4 paved the way with new and different styles of playing Quake 3. Cypher doesn't exactly do anything new (besides 360 degree flick shots xD), he just does it better than anyone else. His aim, his movement, his tactics are all top-notch, but not really anything totally new that no one has seen before.

It other words, Cypher is standing on the shoulders of giants (Zero4, Fatal1ty, Cooller).

what do you want new? lol

Its like saying the first one who discovered strafe jumping has to be named one of the best trickjumper ever....

I still think it's not relevant. If you want to say my argument is irrelevant, yours about 'inventing anything new' is irrelevant... They just were doing best what was new. Cypher is doing best what is old. So , following your argument, he's the best of all time, since he owns zero4's invented style... :§

the guy who invented the 'back-first' jumping at the olympics for the height-jump competition can't be said as the best jumper of all time just cos he invented it....

Creating something and making something better are two very different things.

Do you think we credit Thomas Edison only as the guy first guy to make the light bulb... but the real credit for the modern day light bulb goes to some random engineer who no one has heard of at GE? I would say, if someone asked, who invented light bulb, I'd say, "Thomas Edison", not the guy at GE.

I give credit to the guys who did it first. So in my mind, Fatal1ty, Zero4, Cooller, and sure, why not Thresh/Lakerman?

you sir, are an idiot.

In this case, Zero4/Fatal1ty/etc are just standing on the shoulders of Thresh. This is redundant and irrelevant.

So then Fatal1ty, Zero4, Cooller aren't the best... the best will come a hundred years from now when some small asian boy has mastered the game in 2108 and has 100% weapon acc on all weapons and can time all armors, all health bubbles, armor shards, and ammo boxes while he plays solitaire on his secondary monitor.

freecell > solitaire

minesweeper > freecell

nooot

Minesweeper is the QW to Freecell's vq3

http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=22245

Nice interview!

Go Carmac =)

Oh, and IRC made me laugh.

[22:43] <vorpal-> zero4 is a cutie
[22:43] <vorpal-> i wonder if he is a flaming homosexual like i am

Must've been on gamesurge.

NOPE

Quakenet

=\

im sure z4 said the game was run dry back at eswc 2003 (4?) for the short documentary by simonb

he said "the game needs new maps, or to just... die."

he also mentioned that "everyone knows what to do to win [now]"

he spoke similarly in this interview about that i think.

yeah he did and czm said the opposite a few years later but soon backed on his word if I remember rightly

his aim comments annoy me though as it isn't just all aim either, there's a reason cypher tops fox, avek and jibo

avek does considerably well considering his aim compared to cypher and jibo etc. it plays a vital role but it's not the deciding factor :\ just like movement isn't the deciding role in CPM though offers great advantages if you're good at it.

what documentary was this?

nvm found it; http://www.quakeunity.com/file=1712

.

Even still, QL can only hope to live up to what Q3 was, and that was mediocre.

"Even still, QL can only hope to live up to what Q3 was, and that was mediocre. "

What game do you play?

Currently? Back to WoW. You could never describe Q3 as "big."

Yeah, the game was never really big. But at least it's still somewhat entertaining after 10 years, to play and to spectate... Something I cannot really say after 2 years of WoW.

o/ Quake3 \o

WoW has never been good to spectate, and never will.

WoW has never been good, and never will* (fixed)

It's only as good as the player.

Hmm, no.

You were not prepared.

I was always prepared :(

its only good until you realize it sucks

You mean "are too poor to pay for a subscription."

I think he knows what he meant

Then he should have said it.

you mean "you are dumb if you still play WoW in 2008"
Played it myself for 1 year

A whole year and you still didn't learn to play?

lol are you actually saying WoW requires skill? Good one

lol agreed.

mediocre?

quake 3 was and probably still is the most perfect game on the planet

Even at it's prime, it's never been big.

just because it wasnt a "big" game, doesn't make it mediocre.

small/unsuccessful/mediocre

callvote kick to you!!!!

Press f1 plis!!!

BLEHEHEH shut up.

What?! That's the worst argument I have heard.

Pop bands are big and successful......So all good by your logic.
Eurovision is one of the most watched events....Therefore good by your logic.

And look at underappreciated bands / games / mods / whatever out there - small, perhaps....bad - no!

You're comparing an opinion on the game to status. This isn't an argument, and you should probably read before you post.

CS is big. not as good though.

Doesnt work...he plays WOW

So he likes crap games

X=Z=Y
WOW=CRAP=CS

Its mathematics !




:)

Don't be jealous that I actually play a game with players.

I agree.

u suck

downgraded perhaps

This is the first and the last time I'll even mention QL invites:
GIVE ME A FUCKING INVITE!

Address?

Is it really that easy? Please give me one too, i only have cs and wow left :'(

Yes it is, I have one invite left.
Please PM me your address and i'll send one out to you, they take a little while to arrive though as they aren't sent out immediately.

OMG you"re teh shit man! Thanks a lot (pm sent)

Now i can start arguing with vedic again, rocks :D

Invite sent out :)

Thank you so much!

Invite sent, thanks for the PM.

Wow, thanks!

Carmarc is rulez! He takes interviews to the next level as far as im concerned ;)

Great i-view ;)

I agreez phor shure

Trito > Carmac :>

Im sure that if Carmarc showed us some cleavage theres no way Trito would beat him ;D

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1235572

lol :D

Ok you won :>

So, Losers Anonymous... has it been released, I can't remember ?

nice, thanks Carmac :)

? "eckserp"?
I always just said it as "zerp".

seeing as xerp is short for 'extrapolate', he's saying it correctly.

elaborate please, where does the "er" in the middle come from?

please, becks! he's trying so hard to be smart mouth and you ruined it.

oh :(

I thought there was some pronounciation rule I didn't know.

from arqon's naming...probably something to do with english people unnecessarily adding an 'r' sound to some words. :p

i assume it's deduced from `lerp' which means Linear Interpolation...

yeh, I actually know that one.

so xerp is extra interpolation :P

Extrapolation :)

now we're going in circles :(

afaik the "er" in lerp stands for "inter". You need this distinction cause there actually is linear extrapolation ;)

oh and does anyone know if "lerp" is pronounced el-erp? :P

Nice interview. Some of the question were a little too similar forcing some answers to be repetitive. e.g. the aim and lg issue.

But keep'em coming :)

great interview like everytime
keep up the good work

good interview carmac gg :)

very very good interview! I agree with z4 on every part, surely in saying that q3 is less fun now. less tacs, more aim.

We would need toxic playing, to see if it was really aimonly :D

tox > cooller

He's right, I just watched Cypher vs some guys and you can see it's all about unbelievable rail aim and rushing with LG after running around with a guantlet. It's faster but not tactical.

Excellent interview though!

lol go back to your cave. Cypher's definitely got strats. the recent demos aren't good examples of them that's all.

EDIT : NOOB YOU ARE.

he does what situation demands, no matter what weapon. Cypher is definitely one of the more strategical players, see even if he choses lg fights he always positions himself better, since cpma vq3 positioning yourself has become supremely important, and cypher does it really really well, positioning yourself needs strategy, a lot of it.

i love trolling you. reply please :<

You are a noob, will be a noob and are destined to not go beyond noob status.

Just like Rapha owned your little Cypher. It's going to happen again, he is so going to wish he never took the red pill.

you lose

how stupid
do you really think that "unbelievable rail aim and rushing with LG " its only reflexes!?
that based on superior intellegent understanding of game - cypher know what to do in moment...

use the reply button luke...

Fatality really in one row with cooller and zero4 but imho z4muz too... respect for zero4
polosatiy wrote special column on c58 about fatality - he said i was in shock every time when i saw his demos... i'm agree
cypher impessions now on one level with fatality in 2000...

:------------D

<3 [+]

wtf zamuz? :D

come on man....there were 20 like zamuz.

he moved so well tho

prob still does. almost perfect.

yeah, flawless movement, but cant compare him with the others in terms of "greatest".

nice interview :)

Looks like quake 4 did change something.

We will see insane matches in Quakelive. LG whore versus rocket whore versus rail whore. All using good plasma to spam, shotgun to finish and NO cess from mg.

I've seen some seriously insane rockets in QL already, AND some insane dodging of the rockets, nigga dodged 3-4 perfect rockets jumping over it and USING the bounce to his advantage to move behind the other guy all the while using plasma to light him up. Was sickening, i actually tried to record that shit and youtube it but i was afraid of the NDA :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn6DQRUeX_o

did he just say at 8:50 quake foreplayed and later that he enjoyed himself? :P
"I lost so I don't have an answer for that" well let me try one 4 u: every time I was rushing for the RA in the dm6 match against av3k, I was doing it with no armor at all, like crazy

yeah and nekon enjoys healthy food. fucking liar newb

ZeRo4 <3

/sigh

/stopfanboism

"/stopfanboism"

f22222222222222 z4 fanboy 4eva :D

someone write a transcript

Carmac : Sluuuurp
Z4 : Aaaaah

Did he mean Q3 or QL when he sad that it was not so fun anymore then before?

Sry may bad english...

q3

we need new maps!!!

Ze perfect header.

Can't view video for some reason.

go to sk-gaming.com, worked for me there.

thanks

So how can I get a QuakeLive invite? I've been Quaking since 1997 and want to play QuakeLive! Invite please! I see all these people talking about it and I want to see what it's all about. Invite me please! =D

Dude, seriously. It's Quake 3 with baseq3 + team arena maps. New skins here and there. Damage alterations here and there. About 25% of OSP features. New scoreboard. Which is playable in a browser. You're not missing much.

He looks like Trent Reznor with short hair..

You mean Trent Reznor looks like Zero4 with long hair?

.

sounded somewhat different back then, but whatever :)

.

but yet u troll about other US players endlessly on this site. whenever i see a post from u its normally about how either u beat / are better then z4, how DKT is crap and so forth.
for someone that says how their life is more important then quake u sure seem to care an awful lot about wat ppl think of u here. do u have any ambition in Quake at all then? if so wat are these ambitions?

so how's your wife and the three little kids you have to feed then?

.

kinda bad trolling if you take it back

.

well, either you trolled by saying you cared back then and take back the troll now.
Or you did care and troll now (which would be very weak trolling)

or did Imiss another option?

.

like these other players who want to win every tournament and be sponsored by some gaming org. thats just not who i am

word. taking drugs and whining on esr is where it's at.

.

no unheard of :P

but still very shameful...

czm once said the game can elvolve so much more. maybe cypher is peaking over this level and will take us all up another notch

the aim issue is annoying so many people but i think thats just evolution. there is only so many ways you can dodge and you can always hit another rail or lg a higher percentage

what happens in 5 years time when we are playing QL (maybe) or quake 5 (if it happens) and we are all so trained we are hitting everything?

It's is possible imo and the quest for perfection is what makes quake so damn good.

It's not that the aiming itself that is annoying, but what the game becomes because of that.

Boring.

... and that is annoying

His dad tought him to date rape?

carmac's like "john, 4 yeaaahs, 4 long yeaaahs...." wtf?

so why isn't it possible to view this interview?

:(

u gotta have the right picmic, I guess

that jpeg looks like its from '87

that's what SHE said!

OMG zero4 looks like he took some steroids ..

in soviet america steroid takes you

ROFL
ROFL
ROFL

its possible to gain a lot of weight if you change diet :)

he must replace mcdonalds with...mcdonalds then

joke's really wearing a bit thin now =P

in USA you are never too thin :P

.

Only those that put you on ignore don't know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GF_E-1PAPc

but i know)) because im another part of you)))

and i can tell everything to everybody!!!!

forgot how gay polish accents are.

I think Zero4's mention of Cypher's style and how to defend them should definitely be put to the test when he plays if-22.

I think their styles are so conflicting it should be interesting to see who prevails.

Like watching Dag vs. Reppie.

dag > reppie

---

true...

by chtv, you'd think reload > god

ofc xD

"Maradona and Pele > Messi and C. Ronaldo ?"

klrement ! gros naab ;>

<3

really great interview!

I heard ZeRo4 accused a lot people of cheating, and now he says he enjoyed losing? Does not compute, somehow...

what do i need to play this? just formatted...

I think it's shockwave/flash video.

lol carmac, i thought your english was kinda better.

.

Trol'ed.

What the GAY is with the crouch close up? ....euros

Mooshu

Is he Greek? Thats a huge fucking nose.

Actually, one may point out that the best player is the one who made the most money outta the tournaments and considering Q3 it is zero4, fatal1ty and czm, since cooller never broke 10k barrier in his carrier !

COOLLER <---- BEST PLAYER EVER