Basically, Quake Live is pretty decent right now. The MAIN problem is that people bitch because QL isn't where Q3 CPMA is. That's the problem.

Quake Live is something really great, I don't think we could ask for better right now. There's slight changes, and sure, there's not as many cvars as CPMA, but do we really need to shun the game and pretend like it doesn't exist?

I'm telling EVERYONE about Quake Live, because even the competitive and professional players can ignore some of the bugs or lack of features. SyncError is doing an AMAZING job with this, listening to the community, making appropriate changes, and so on.

The game is actually BALANCED, more-so then VQ3 CPMA is (All LG and RG).

If people keep bitching, complaining, and ignoring Quake Live because it's not 100% perfect, then kiss Quake goodbye. If Quake Live doesn't make it, ID said there's not going to be a Quake 5. No more Quakes means no more competition.

Quake Live is a blessing in disguise, and we should be pretty damn happy we can extend the Quake life (Quake THREE for that matter) for a few more years.

As for things that are better? It's free, easy to setup, looks better, game is balanced, and community features + matchmaking will be also a bonus =D

"ID said there's not going to be a Quake 5. No more Quakes means no more competition."

That's it basically.

Get with it or prepare to vanish in the competitive scene.

Or maybe something like Warsow (which I love. I also love Q3A, don't have a QL key, so I know very little about it.) can flourish and become the next thing for FPS gamers. It sure as hell has what it takes, and if it doesn't, it will pretty fast if everybody stands behind it. Or just give it a rest, and play what's fun, and that will come forward as the next big thing for fast FPS gamers. Maybe.

It would be sad if the best form of competitive gaming died and the other games which are bullshit IMO survived while the real action and pure skill got left behind.

The game is actually BALANCED, more-so then VQ3 CPMA is (All LG and RG).

Where does this come from? Looking at leader stats, LG is still the weapon of choice all over. The RL is being used more but you'll find unless we get totally new maps that favor enclosed spaces (such as dm13 tunnels) then LG is still going to be the weapon of choice allover.

If people keep bitching, complaining, and ignoring Quake Live because it's not 100% perfect, then kiss Quake goodbye. If Quake Live doesn't make it, id said there's not going to be a Quake 5. No more Quakes means no more competition.

It's not about bitching and complaining (well in some cases it is). But why play something that is inferior. I like what QL has to offer and the fact that the gameplay is being tweaked but if CPMA is still better in terms of a competition mod and the changes are still minimal then there are no benefits of changing. id should just patch q3 so it has the same weapon values as ql along with no cripple effect once they're done with it.

I'm just guessing, but I think lots of QL players come from Q3, so it could be that they are still abusing lg out of habit. Even though it's less effective to do so.

The modification of damage values does not change the fact that the weapon itself is useful in almost any situation. The movement is the biggest problem.

well yeah, but isn't supposed to be a valid choice in medium and short range?
Sure it should be weaker than rl in short and maybe even weaker than shotgun, but not completely useless.

weaker than rl in short and maybe even weaker than shotgun, but not completely useless.

I'm pretty sure SG is pumping out more DPS than LG right now.

yes.

but so does plasma most likely, dps isn't everything

Plasma is a beast in the right hands at short range.

The LG is always going to be the most dominat weapon because these games work on a close/medium/long range system.

The majoirty of fighting distances are close to medium (with medium being most common) range and the shaft is simply the most effective weapon at these distances due to its almost constant rate of fire, damage and cripple effect.

.......

Well its clear by your comment on id patching 1.32 that you have no idea the point behind Qlive. It's not please a few hundred people on ESR that;s for sure. Such people are insignificant, you just think you're significant becaue you do 99% of the bitching.

The point of Qlive is to PRESENT Quake Live to a new audience of gamers. It's that simple.

stop, just stop.

Damn, that's twice I tried to troll you and you're not biting :)

you see, it wouldn't be so bad if you didn't believe the shit you wrote half the time (sup daryl!) then claimed 'trolling'.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1593851#pid1593851

You think, or maybe you just tell yourself that for the times when you're unable to make that distinction.

just.. lol

the game really is more balanced atm
i don't need you to believe me or anything but control feels much more important in QL, u can take some rails to the face and still be strong

It's certainly more balanced without a doubt, still need to play it a lot more to form more of a solid opinion, I'm still speculating a bit.

New maps are still needed though, because people are playing them the exact same. :(

Lots more new maps are needed. And yes it needs things from cpma(superhud,mvd and lots of customizations), but gameplay and feel of quakelive is 100x better than cpma.

Q3*

stop using cpma for gameplay comparison, the gameplay differences are extremely minor from cpma vq3 vs baseq3 compared to QL vs baseq3

unless you mean cpm which would be very unfair as both QL and Q4 have both taken loads of ideas/features from it: 80dmg rail, remove lg cripple, stronger rl, faster cj etc. (in way vindicating some of the fine work the cpm dev team's have done with dm gameplay design)

no. Shaft isn't the dominating weapon anyone, RL is. Shaft is backup or to use when the other guy has no RL or sucks with RL. Rail is to chip away at armor/health of enemy and finishing weapon IF the enemy is in a hard spot and you can't use RL/shaft/shotgun and has too much health for MG.

It's night and day differences compared to cpma. Watch cypher versus fox. Cypher the shaft whore of cpma abandons shaft most times to use RL, which he loves in quakelive, its very smooth (check his rocketjumping near end of game, you can tell he is enjoying this shit a lot) His shaft/rail are very good/strong too but RL is the dominating gun.

Using cypher to make your point is pretty dumb.

No is is discussing optimal playing points among pros. it's median playing conditions among mortals.

Most of the mid-level players base their game alot around what they see more advanced players do.

no, it's the exact thing you should do.

They're the best for a reason.

Why is it dumb?

Cypher is an absolute top tier player,who could be argued to be the best in in the world right now. So using him as an example of the weakness of lg/strength of rl is a valid point.

Your comment of "it's median playing conditions among mortals" implies that professional level's of play are irrelevant to deciding the strength's/weaknesses of certain weapons at lower skill levels.

Is it logical here that quake live is intended to attract a more "mainstream audience" so cypher's l33t skills should be ignored in the debate of deciding which weapons are stronger? I disagree, as their skills with each weapon can be viewed as a "benchmark" for what can be achieved with each weapon. The "benchmark" clearly shows that lg and rg are now significantly weaker and are no longer the dominant weapons anymore, that role now lies with the rl.

So, by the stance of your previous comments implying that lg is still the dominant weapon, lets take an example from the other end of the player skill spectrum; people who are completely new to the game.

I invited one of my non quake playing friends to have a game of cpma vq3 on our two computer lan at my flat. My friend, and my flat mate (who is relatively new to quake but no noob), had a game together. My flat mate found it was far easier to attack with rl than lg because the other player simply was not good enough to dodge rockets, and so matter what gun this player used, he couldnt return a lot of damage because he was getting flung about in the air too much to aim properly :) Then he got hold of a rocket launcher. The game instantly became closer because the splash damage really helped him to fight back, and he attained a couple of frags as well, both of which from the rocket launcher. The score was still 32:2 though!

In conclusion, my point is that at low skill levels of play, imo the rocket launcher is dominant because of the splash damage, and since the rl is much stronger in quake live, as well as it's intended "mainstream audience" (read noob), then the above situation might satisfy the criteria of "median playing conditions among mortals"

Just my two cents :D

shaft still remains the most dominant weapon on tourney4

good attempt nearlly got us there !!!!

RL > LG in qlive imo
edit: I use RL significantly more in QL than in cpma vq3, qlive is more like osp gameplay with better rockets and everyone rails 100% and shafts 40%(but are weaker weapons so its more balanced because rl is still stronger in some situations)

like i started yesterday played a pack of 6 or 7 games with 130 ping and i have a 32% LG 40% RG and 48% RL and 80% SG! Not even with xerp @ 130 ping i could hit such thing :p

"The RL is being used more but you'll find unless we get totally new maps that favor enclosed spaces (such as dm13 tunnels) then LG is still going to be the weapon of choice allover."

I suspect this is primarily because it's the general finishing weapon. I usually will use RL and RG for dents, and to keep a player on their toes, but if I land two rails I'm gonna rush with LG, and if I land two decent rockets I'm gonna rush with LG (assuming positioning allows)

You sound like an aggressive quake four player!! H8'ed it when people rushed me with rockets in Q4, especially after 1.4 came out :(

But imagine the stink-up that would cause!! It would be like OSP to CPMA, but times a hundred! Or something of that ilk...

how is CPMA better then QL in a tourny? (not online)

i'm not even going to fucking bother

please humour me.

There's the whole you can't play it on lan thing

for me i just wanted the console to work on my keyboard xD

In Quake Live you have to do

CTRL + ALT + `

There's an option where you can make it only the ` key, but I forget the cvar =(

/com_allowconsole 1?

i know that but it doesent work in my keyboard ^_^ ty tho :)

It's Ctrl+Alt+[key above tab to left of 1]. This key differes between keyboards, but should be the same electronicly. "/Seta com_allowconsole 1" should make the console stay to just the key above tab.

i see... ;D the force is strong in you!

if it gets +vstr then I will probably try it out.
else, no.

you can't alias?

nope

is that all you swedes are worried about

yes.

Let's try to focus on the positive changes in QL for once.

I'm all ears.

Am I the only to have noticed that QL is the first and only ID game to ever even be playable in competition without a mod? All the MAJOR components of a pro mod are present. Yeah sure at the time you can't disable tiny, tiny things like crosshairpulse and the like, but the only reason we expect this to be changeable is because we have been spoiled by mods that have been in development for 8+ years.

I'm really over people whining about QL when ID is really making an effort to take the more serious gamer into account without neglecting the casual gamer (pro skins, readying, etc) yes sure some (small) things are still missing for, especially re TDM etc, but the way ID has handled the beta so far keeps me positive and I'm sure that these will be added eventually, even if only after rollout. I work in a data management field which is similar to QuakeLive's webpage and it really is a massive job, and I think it's obvious that that is still the major area of focus for ID. Integrated GTV, easy-to-access demo's, mvds, the major missing components, are all big jobs that only the hard core will really appreciate. Still, I'm convinced ID will implement these eventually. The deployment system of the game also lends itself very well to frequent patching, which is a good thing.

99.9% of the whine is just the usual quake community whine, remember switching from OSP to CPMA? I'm sure that if, for some reason, the whole community had to switch back to OSP, where (apperently) bunnies ran free in the fields and flowers bloomed all year long, we'd have to face another torrent of whine.

99.9% of the whine is just the usual quake community whine, remember switching from OSP to CPMA

Remember it? Its still going on /o\

is it true your brother is Swelt?

Yep.

Damn you impy for spreading this fact to try and get me to convince him to return to mapping.... I don't think it'll work, so no spamming me ;)

*nudge* *nudge*

We won't blame you for Phrantic!

P.S.

Surname gave it away!

:D

i knew a love for cpm was in your blood

nah, seen it on the QL forums and just wondered if it were true is all. :)

aha! :D

WHAT?

We need to find your parents and have them produce more quake babies.

too late
rumors say they are all fat now

i love the faster rockets

lg doesn't have a big knock back so it's nice as well

its better than osp but not as good as 'evolved' as cpm

but the like the movement of quake live over everything i have played before. what i hate is waiting 50 mins for a duel.

agreed, instanced arenas from q4 pls

QL movement's better than CPMA's? In what ways?

i mean QL movment is more fun and faster than cpma vq3. probably cos the 125 is back

i don't like cpma movement. I have tried and tried but it just isn't my bag baby

the jump height is the same, they probably increased the speed you get from one strafe jump or smth. To me ql movement feels like cpma vq3 with a touch of randomness added. (as in, it doesn't feel as solid as cpma does)

the whole point that like QL is the fact it's better than osp movment

i love ctf and cpma vq3 just doesn't cut it for that feeling you get playing CTF in osp

It's probably the main reason people get hooked in quake. I remeber trying to learn strafes and the fucking bridge to rail lol

remember QL isn't finished yet so the movement is only going to get better. I don't know if they have fixed the random erros but i aint had a mental overbounce yet at random. So that brings me to the conclusion that the engine is close to perfect.

So what is it about QL movement that makes you think this?

clarify your question

You like QL's movement, you don't like CPMA's, what makes you think this? What parts of the movement?

i prefer quake lives movement over all the quakes i have played. It doesn't feel as cpma vq3 whilst not as buggy as osp.

i am not a fan of cpma on its own but i might get into it.

played some ctf using promode. was fun for a while but as usual i always return to normal quake

why would they add randomness, yes it feels a bit more floaty like OSP but it's FPS independent physics like in CPMA

i didnt mean added as in extra added to make it feel like that, rather not as much polished as cpma so its still left ;), it just feels like cpma vq3 with a little bit of that random floaty feeling of OSP. (which they should get rid of imho)

i don't see why floaty equals random in your dictionary :)) QL just uses different parameters

but yeah movement is all about feeling instead of a "right set of parameters" and tiny adjustments can make it feel so wrong :)

please tell us all they're using the exact same physics almost

What's new with QL movements?

it's cq3 but not by arqon so everyone likes it

rofl

It's quite a good illustration of the mind-numbing stupidity of the community.

Not really. arqon is a cunt so he gets what he deserves.

Which, just so we're clear, is: complaints that he largely doesn't read and completely doesn't care about.

yeah, right :D

saw cpma vq3, saw cpma cq3, saw ql

OSP movement owns everything, the smoothness that I never found again.

I'm really enjoying QL, cba with the Chaingun, Nailgun or Mines. Faster rockets are better, but they should lower their damage to make up for the speedier rockets

I havent got a key for QL and was wonering what the situation is with servers?

Hosted by usual sites or ID?...or private?

Cheers

Private and by ID, I think.

They're probably dealing with one company that works ONLY with ID for Quake Live servers.

i wish i could fucking play it properly..

ever since punkbuster was added i have random framedrops and lag even in botmatches. punkbuster services are making my hard disk go nuts, red light blinking non-stop <- new fail level, OMG!

i guess punkbuster scans the pagefile.. which is sort of retarded
after 3 months of moaning and complaining in the forums, not a fix in sight.. i guess it's out of id's scope to debug that piece of shit. FUCK EVENBALANCE!!

another thing that pisses me off:
it seems to me the download size is wasted on really poor maps no one will ever play: q3dm1 through q3dm5 + 3 (THREE) versions of the same silly map (hell's gate).. that's pretty LOL :/

besides no new maps.. everyone plays q3dm6, even more depressing

anyway.. there is still plenty of time to adress these issues, but my experience was ruined and i sort of gave up already

i would donate my account, but i can't change the password

Punkbuster no longer scans the pagefile, we stopped them from doing that months ago.

is punkbuster actually effective? is that why it was included in QL? i'm sick of their shit.

lol @ broken NDA

No, I actually mentioned this because it was stated at QuakeCon when QL was in use. The punkbuster guys where there on hand and it was noted in public that punkbuster was being used and that it did not scan paged out memory.

Glad to hear they actually fixed it after that irc conversation with TTimo.

In which TTimo said "ogc_enable 1" and caused the Evenbalance HQ to explode because the anti-cheat device was scanning memory.

QL to support cpm gameplay as a mod = perfection

Why would you want to play through a browser ?
Just play CPMA :|

I'd like to see ID make a new mode themselves, keep the CQ3 like version of VQ3 they have now but also try something new... and maybe not call it something as pretentious as "promode".

ql is pretty fine atm but I dont like all the old maps especially dm6. What is the purpose to play remakes? ql shouldn't become q3. New players haven't any chance to compete against oldschool q3 players. I have to say it was a failure to remake old maps in ql.

I'd like to see new maps as well, but I still want just a few core maps, so that they can be memorized.

And I hope they switch the RA and LG back on nodm9.

i will quit ql when dm6 will in the mappool of ql cups. Thats for sure

few things:
- ql is a remake of q3
- matchmaking
- somehow i'm sure ql wont collapse after you quitting it :>

yes your right. The game wont collapse when "I" quit playing... i am just one of the new ql players who didnt play q3.
Maybe the other new players who are not familar with q3 will get the same thought but it doesnt matter.

Some q3 players still think there is no need for ql? Cpma/OSP is superior to ql but it doesnt matter.

ql needs to be a success regarding the development of q5 but it doesnt matter.

Something I've noticed a lot moaning about: The fact that old maps are being added.

Now I'm not a great Quake 3 player (Hardly win any 1V1, no clan, can't consistenly do the bridge to rail jump :( ) but if they didn't add these maps then I would be dissapointed.

Why? because these maps are so good. There is a reason why these maps are used and overplayed. Because the map design is great. Do you really want to risk great maps such as these being replaced with.... well.... crap, just so new players have one less excuse against people who have been playing ten times longer then them.

There are two main things that are going to make Quake Live noob friendly:

1: That fact that it is free: With the right advertising every person and his dog, every skill level from pro to noob, will try this game

2: Matchmaking: If this goes as well as it can, then everyone can find someone their skill level to play with.

Just my 2 cents
YYS

For those asking the question, why should I play something inferior?

Quake Live has the potential to unite the entire futuristic fast paced FPS player base (say that five times fast). People need to realize this, and even more importantly that its impossible to perfectly balance game play to everyone's desires. Each change always results in tailoring to one persons desires while offending another.

Adapt, overcome, and we will see a player base like no other fast paced FPS in the last five plus years. With the gaim theory match making system (I tested this a long time ago, well before quakezero/live was announced) newbies will finally have the chance to progress in an environment similar to when quake 3 first came out.

News flash for those who don't get it, player counts will dictate our genre's future; see WoW's success, and all the mmo's that have spawned based on that. Player counts will drive more, bigger, better competitions for our game and I think most people can see the benefit in that.

they fixed the graphics bug, now you can exec any cfg you want and graphics go back to their settings according the file, no more quit the game and delete/rename base cfg file

one more thing maybe many people don't care about, but to me it's a big plus, the guys behind this game have artistic talent, the way they made menus, graphical interface and even the map remakes

Should actually make a thread somewhere where people list the things they like and dislike (and I don't just mean gameplay, but graphics, menus, interface etc). Then a moderator who deletes anything that isn't related (spam, troll etc). Eventually you will get a nice list and the moderator can make a nicely concluded write-up with detailed information and just hand it over to iD.

iD has a forum for that I guess. But the ESR members are the biggest hardliners I know and probably don't even go to their site (I stand to be correct though). it's kinda working to their disadvantage despite the fact that pretty much everyone on this site loves to watch/play/mod/edit Quake3 content.

Quite likely that I am just daydreaming, it would be cool though :>

ID has a forum for that I guess. But the ESR members are the biggest hardliners I know and probably don't even go to their site (I stand to be correct though)

id does have their own forum, and ESR members (who're in the beta, obviously) should be going there since that is the only place you can give feedback:

You shall report all BUGS and FEEDBACK to Id Software promptly upon identifying the same and only at either beta tester forums at Id Software's designated QUAKE LIVE™ web site or to Id Software directly.

I rest my case then.

ta for info