no disrespect, but can we drop this whole "professional e-sports" thing

it aint guna happen.

also: first

I almost picked that for the quotation:

We as a community (or even as businesses) have done pretty much JACK SHIT to educate people outside of our industry on just what exactly is going on. Why can't I watch a video on how to understand StarCraft? Why can't I see videos on learning the basics of Quake, or Counter-Strike? What if those resources were available? Suddenly you're openly accepting new people to a fairly closed community. Want a free business idea from djWHEAT? There you go... that's a completely untouched market right now.

That's a very interesting part of the itw

Yet you sport a flag of a country who proved you wrong...

Everyone's definition of "Professional E-Sports" is probably drastically different, right? I'd rather use the term "Pro-Gaming/Gamer", that signifies a player or team who competes for money. That does happen, is happening, and if anything, I'm fighting to protect that.

Whatever happens beyond that is great, but I do not have this crazy gaming utopia dream of PROFESSIONAL E-SPORTS at every turn. I just want to see the support of a higher-level of competitive gaming continue to live. And I don't think that's very selfish considering the sacrifices I've made for that to happen.

I think you need to fine-tune your definition of "Pro-Gaming/Gamer" a bit.

[...] that signifies a player or team who competes for money as a means of earning a living.

Gaming needs to be your primary source of income to be a pro-gamer. Otherwise anyone who wins €10 at a local LAN can be regarded professional.

I sit and play games when my boss isn't looking. That makes me a pro-gamer.

probably hundreds of thousands of various sportsmen that don't rely of their sport as a source of income

i reacted a bit to the part where you said

People make comments and say things with no regard and probably don't realize that they are just slowly hacking away at the activity that they supposedly love so much.

It's not a game people.

i mean, it should be. games are developed and by so many played, to be games. this so called "e-sports", is not what we're all after, we being those who actually post on pages like this. the average gamer will do fine without big team having big sponsors to pay them salaries and what not, at least for the game(s) i play right now, everything is paid by the community anyhow, it's not like lets say fnatic will jump in and pay for pickupservers for us averages anyhow, screw them!

and i like the colors of the korean flag :(

Professional Gaming in S.Korea is real, outside isnt. Period. Will someday European and USA society evolve to that kind of level? I don't know, but not anytime soon it seems.

it's not like lets say fnatic will jump in and pay for pickupservers for us averages anyhow, screw them!

that's an interesting point actually and a good way to help out various communities and so on, not just big teams but the big tournaments as well

.

The Korea card is as annoying.

I could be a bit off base here but I'm under the impression that like China and Japan they're a lot more open minded. A culture where society are willing to embrace movements, fads and trends that would never be a norm in the west. As far as I recall SC isn't the only big game over there, while it may be the top dog I'm sure I recall adverts in streams for an array of other competitive games.

That is half the reason it works. If you have a community that's willing to embrace something 'crazy' from the get go then you already have a big head start. Something certainly lacking here in the west; even for those activities that are not out there.

ESWC/CPL/AGP could do everything perfect right down to the last detail but if you haven't got a society willing to accept it into the main stream then it's never going to become anything close to what Korea have done.

is that a faux hawk? lose it.

good responses from djWHEAT

Good answers, I have a feeling that were going through a transition phase right now thats essentially going to take us back to the good old days of 04/05.

We all just gotta work together!

I think part of it has to do with the recession, but, we just need a year or two, and we'll be back on track.

I'm glad we have people like Wheat, Streetrunner, and Carmac, helping the community instead of hurting it.

These are the people we need right now to work through the rough phase of competitive gaming, and find the right path we need to take. Obviously the BIG LIGHTS NBA WARMUP MUSIC INTRO is obviously something that doesn't work with e-sports, at least in North America and Europe. We need to find out our place, is it a more professional elite sport like golf? Or is it the NBA/NHL big lights loud noises sport?

I hope we can work on this, and hopefully the community can swallow their pride and get their heads our of their asses. We can't sit here and bitch that CPM is better than VQ3, or visa versa. We don't sit here and argue over stupid shit all day instead of maybe contribute to competitive gaming. Just a bit, an article, a video, anything. It doesn't matter.

Sure we've spend the last 10 years finding our place in the social media and business world, and maybe we need another 5 years to do it. The important thing is that we keep trying. We don't just give up because it hasn't improved as much as we want to, or grown as much as we want to. It's getting bigger, we need to be positive about this. Fuck the inconsiderate people who constantly spew the "E-Sports is going to fail" bullshit. Ignore it, they don't know. Obviously it's positive growth. Otherwise, we'd still be a bunch of people in a basement competing for $50 RAM and energy drinks.

ESWC and WCG is what we have left, and possibly the return of CPL. As well as the introduction of AGP. Instead of criticizing these organizations, lets show some positive outlooks for them. If we expect to go up, we need to keep at it, and never give up on it. We need the help of the sponsors, as much as we can. So what we have to play on a team and brag about a specific brand of hardware in an interview. It's sacrifices we need to make to get ahead. We can either sit at home with 50 ping and go nowhere, or we can suck it up, put some effort into this, and get it going.

Go Wheat, Go Jarod, Go everyone helping e-sports and making it grow. We wouldn't of done all of this just for a quick 5 years of fun, we want this to grow.

Kudos guys, never give up.


EDIT: What I meant in that regards of "If Quake Live is the main game then we use it" is mostly the constant battle between CPM and VQ3.

When Quake Live gets bigger, and has the specific competition features we need, and the general competitive players agree it's as good or better than Quake 3, then we should use it.

I didn't mean it in a sense that since QL is out we HAVE to use it. I think it needs more time before it's ready for competition.

Pipe dream etc.

You see, you're the type of person who doesn't get why "e-sports" hasn't really worked. You say "Quake Live is the main competition game? Then we play it.", which is absolute nonsense. That's the attitude that has got "e-sports" nowhere.

Expecting people to play a game just because it's the main competition game is a terrible way to create an industry.

There are more important things when dealing with competition based industries than prize money and player numbers. The Competitive values of the game/industry/community are what really matters and what has been lacking everywhere outside of Starcraft in S.Korea and the ESWC (to some extent).

you're right, but... comments like that aren't getting you any plusses son!

I don't care about plusses :(

I've been top of the plusses before, so it's old for me...

yeh, way less fulfilling than what it looks like from the bottom :P

Exactly.

Also, what Gillz and his ilk do not understand is that Quake Live is nothing but an exercise for iD in trying to make their own battle.net and to raise the Quake brand back into the consciousness of Joe Public.

THOSE ASSHOLES!!!!!

.... wait.. what?

You're absolutely right and I couldn't agree more.

I feel bad that my old organization changed games so often and hurt more than helped the 1v1 community. This was one reason that I tried to standardize and preached in 2006 that rather than change games and dividing the community more, organizations should use what works until something is ready. I've learned that you can't force people to create a community. If you do, you're only creating a temporary community and not a permanent one. If you notice over the last year since several organizations have folded, people are back to playing what they WANT in q3 and CS 1.6. While SOME people will move to whatever game will make them money, you're alienating the entire reason that esports began in the first place, the community.

Chris Moncivalles
TBE|ChrisM

What I meant in that regards is mostly the constant battle between CPM and VQ3.

When Quake Live gets bigger, and has the specific competition features we need, and the general competitive players agree it's as good or better than Quake 3, then we should use it.

I didn't mean it in a sense that since QL is out we HAVE to use it. I think it needs more time before it's ready for competition.

Not sure if I agree.

We've had Quake3 wich proved(and still is proving) to be a REALLY solid deathmatch game.

Used in tournaments from 1999-2009(upcomming eswc finals)

Or even Quake4 really.
And don't start a whole 'quake4 sux1!1' battle that's not why I'm mentioning it:D

Thing is, why switch to quakelive when we should've just picked a game that works and stick with it, let id Software throw in a few patches and stuff.

Don't get me wrong the quakelive idea is great and it shows, however Quake3+ comp mod(cpma/osp) still is better for competition.

I agree, I rather play Q3 right now, but the weapon balance in QL is pretty decent. Once the features the competitive players need are in it, I see no reason to use Quake 3.

There's no reason to not start playing now. People are figuring out how to play serious business games and tournaments in spite of the current limitations; there are tournaments and ladders going on, and the userbase recently underwent a pretty big spike recently so there won't be lack of players either.

Why would or should promoders switch to QL? It's just slightly tweaked VQ3.

It's a more balanced Quake 3, and once there's specific features that CPMA has, and get implemented into Quake Live, then we can start using that. More people playing, more competition, more tournaments.

It's a more balanced VQ3, it doesn't offer promoders anything.

And we care about promoders because...?

"What I meant in that regards of "If Quake Live is the main game then we use it" is mostly the constant battle between CPM and VQ3.

When Quake Live gets bigger, and has the specific competition features we need, and the general competitive players agree it's as good or better than Quake 3, then we should use it."

This implies that everyone, including promoders should be playing QL.

No, when I say everyone, I mean everyone minus promoders. 90% of them aren't going to change and play VQ3, since their religiously against it. Having CPM only hurts the Quake community, and splits it. There's nothing we can do at this point, because CPM isn't just going to be 'removed'.

I'll look forward to PMX if it supports a VQ3 mode, but if it's strictly CPM game play, I'm not going to really care about supporting it. I'm sure they can create a great looking game and have all the features and functions we need, but if they're using only CPM, I'm not going to make an initiative to boost its popularity,

It is PMX gameplay only, no VQ3. The error I see with your comment about splitting the community is the assumption that those who play CPM would have played VQ3 if CPM had not existed. Splitting communities with near-identical things is bad, when the things are very different I'm not that convinced it's a split. What about QW and Q2? Should servers for those be taken down to prevent them splitting the community from QL?

No, I have no problem with QW, Q2, Q4. The problem is when you split ONE game up. An example would be DOTA for WC3.

When you make people decide between two different games, within ONE game, you hurt that game community.

Yes, VQ3 and CPM are very different, but they're in the same game. If something like PMX was released as an individual game, and CPMA was just VQ3, I wouldn't have a problem. It'd be like a new Warsow.

I don't buy the distinction that just because they share the engine/assets they're any more similar than QW and Q3. DOTA players aren't WC3 solo players. The overlap is pretty small in terms of one or the other community stealing players.

But the overlap exists in Quake 3. 1v1 for CPM and VQ3.

This goes back to the size of the community. Having something like DOTA in WC3 isn't a huge deal, there's plenty of players. If Quake had tens of thousands of people online every night, I wouldn't care.

But we don't. The Quake community (especially 1v1) is extremely small, but thankfully getting a bit bigger because of Quake Live.

So why don't the VQ3 players stop splitting the community and come play CPMA?

:)

Because VQ3 is bigger, game play is just as good, more players, and original.

Why would a large casual and competitive community go play a mod for serious/competitive players? Yeah, lets get casuals to get raped 100-0 instead of 50-0.

You sound like you're saying "My game is better therefore if you don't play my game you're at fault for making the community worse".

Not at all. Certain modes I prefer in CPM (I prefer to play and spectate CTF in CPM)

But look at the possibility of change. What advantage would we gain switching 100% to CPM? Faster games, more exciting for some, yes. But, still very little.

Now look at the disadvantages of it. WAY too many. Learning curve, different movement, harder to spectate, etc. There's no benefit making both casuals and competitive players moving to a game with an even HIGHER learning curve. Quake learning curve is big enough, why make it worse and lose more players?

Heaven forbid people play games that they enjoy!

They can play CPM all they want, but for them to think CPM should be the Quake 'standard' is completely illogical and unrealistic.

You're right, QW should be the quake standard!

;)

You're missing the point. No one is telling you that it should be the standard and you shouldn't play QL or VQ3, we're saying each to their own.

And this is the comment where you show you truely don't understand the whole point of competition.

Come back when you care about the competition and not the gaming aspect.

I care about competition. CPM doesn't ADD anything EXTRA to competition. Going from something like BaseQ3 to CPMA is beneficial for better netcode and features.

What advantages are there to going to CPM? Really, what are they?

That wasn't what I was referring to. You said the disadvantages were an even higher learning curve, different movement (So?) and it being harder to spectate (Since when?).

A high learning curve, for me, indicates a high skill ceiling which is what one would aim to achieve when making a game based around competition.

I would agree with that, BUT, CPM is in Quake 3. Get CPM out of Quake 3, then we can talk.

We can decide on a better competition game when PMX comes out. That way, Quake can be Quake, and PMX can be PMX. It's screwed right now because they're both in Quake.

Who knows, maybe PMX will be the better 1v1 game. I don't know. I'm not going to expect the world from it though.

CPM and VQ3 really don't share the same players. There is a small amount of crossover but as far as I can tell it's mostly from players like spyteman and skint who seem to be more "casual" now and liked to pickup activity of the CPM scene.

I'm a VQ3 player, just to make that clear.

I'm the same way, I'm a VQ3/QL player, but I play CPM CTF pickups frequently.

I heard some rumors on what's to be expected from PMX, so it will be interesting to see what they can do =)

DOTA didn't hurt WC3. Why is it bad that people choose to play one thing over another? If CPM didn't exist, it's likely that those players wouldn't still be playing Q3 at all. By your logic, we should move VQ3 out of Q3 and focus on Urban Terror since it's the only game with any sort of playerbase.

Maybe I was wrong with the DOTA thing, when I say 'hurt', I mean hurting the competitive 1v1 WC3 scene.

We don't need to move VQ3 out of Q3, because that's what Quake 3 is. It started as VQ3, which is why I agree with CPM moving out of it and into a standalone game.

I'm not sure about your Urban Terror information. Last time I was on Qtracker, it only found a handful of servers.

I understand you thinking the Q3 scene is small, and it is. BUT, Quake Live is getting very popular, and has a lot of players. Last night I saw 1.2K online (Which according to staff means 'ingame').

Now, I know you've posted here thinking differently, but I believe it. There's many things preventing you from seeing ALL the players. You don't see servers outside of your country, you don't see FULL servers, or servers higher/lower then you're tier (I believe it's 3 tier units until you won't see them).

Even not seeing full servers alone is a reason to think there isn't a lot of people playing when you see the server browser.

I've probably already said WAY too much. =(

you should have shut up in the first place, for your own sake.

Now, I know you've posted here thinking differently, but I believe it.

Note that I brought this up a lot earlier in the beta, and the counter was promptly removed. The reason I brought it up before is that, previously, you could see ALL countries, and there were 100 people online and only around 17 (LOL) in game. The counter was put back in, and now you are told that you just can't see servers? Why is it that I see 1000+ online now, yet still only about the same in-game?

Just put this into perspective. It's known that full servers aren't shown on the browser. So, if there's 10-20 FULL instagib servers that's 20 slots (Which even you can admit is common) then that's 200-400 people playing online, that are 'invisible' to us.

I'm not sure I fully understand you're last post though. Are you saying 1000+ in-game in QL is unrealistic and unbelievable?

I'm not sure I fully understand you're last post though. Are you saying 1000+ in-game in QL is unrealistic and unbelievable?

I am. How can you count things like instagib as Quake 3 if you say that CPMA or Urban Terror aren't? We haven't seen 1000+ online on real servers in a long time. You expect me to believe that a closed beta with no advertising has not only surpassed several years of degradation, but expanded on it? In THIS community? We argue about timers going up or down.

I'm saying that the numbers didn't support it when I first pointed it out, and then those numbers were no longer made public. When they came back, they made a huge jump and now "you can't see some servers." Convenient? This is the same company that told us that Q4 would be Q3 with better graphics. The same company that told us that the RL values were exactly the same in Q4 that they were in Q3 (ROFL) and that we were just imagining that it was different. This is also the same company that still stands behind Doom 3 as a good game, and blames it's online failure on a few bad posts by forum-goers.

I think it's most fair to look at third-party unbiased sources (like Google) to get a supporting view on the situation, as there are a lot of things that we both cannot verify personally - nor can id.

I don't see how you think that QL has somehow managed to get the OSP purists who wouldn't even play CPMA VQ3, the CPM players who are in favor of change that QL doesn't bring, the old players who left for a reason, and so on... I would have thought that you, of all people, after dealing with the stupidity that is Quakecon and id, would be a bit less optimistic in this situation. Quake 3 doesn't need QL to live - we've already survived Doom 3, Quake 4, and ETQW. QL failing or not, Q3 will still be here.

It's not most fair to use Google as a source. Google has zero software or resources monitoring how many players are in-game. Web page views don't matter, the people in-game do.

I never said QL obtained the CPM players.

I have faith in this, because it's all we have for the next 2-3 years as a competitive 1v1 game.

Maybe we're being lied to, maybe we're not. Maybe I'm the naive one, maybe you are. All I know is that even looking at the server browser, Quake Live is extremely popular. Maybe it doesn't match up with the 'online players', but I know that Quake Live is popular, and getting popular.

Yes, maybe they've lied to us before. But, I don't think it's going to help if we keep doing the same thing over and over. We can't just 'assume' their lying when they talk about the game.

We need to be positive about it.

Web page views don't matter, the people in-game do.

Quake Live goes through a web page that is tracked by Google. If anything, Google is showing a more accurate view of QL than any other game.

I never said QL obtained the CPM players.

If you subtract the CPM players from the overall Q3 server activity, you end up with a LARGE percentage of people who wouldn't be playing QL, yet you think that it makes sense for the game to have bigger numbers than the real game?

I have faith in this, because it's all we have for the next 2-3 years as a competitive 1v1 game.

You're so hopeless. We HAVE Q3. We HAVE HAD Q3. Right now? Tourneys are still picking Q3. When QL dies like Q4? Q3 will still fucking be here.

Maybe we're being lied to, maybe we're not. Maybe I'm the naive one, maybe you are. All I know is that even looking at the server browser, Quake Live is extremely popular. Maybe it doesn't match up with the 'online players', but I know that Quake Live is popular, and getting popular.

I don't see it - especially not enough for id to justify continuing the service or to make another Quake game as they have stated. The worst part is, if id DOES discontinue QL, it's all through a browser. When QL dies, it's gone for good. Q3 does not require continued support - just hard work from the community.

Yes, maybe they've lied to us before. But, I don't think it's going to help if we keep doing the same thing over and over. We can't just 'assume' their lying when they talk about the game.

Why not? We've been lied to for years now. This is becoming like the developers of WoW (not Blizzard in general - the guys in charge of WoW are former EQ/SWG developers now) who thrive on giving you semi-working content in order to keep you hooked on "waiting on that patch." When you support a developer who does that, you're only continuing the trend. It's a vicious cycle.

Do you want Quakecon to continue to be as bad as it was last year? If you keep showing your support (or in WoW, keep paying the subscription), they have no reason to change their ways. Look at the people who threw their support behind CGS, hoping to one day get Quake into it. It didn't happen - they don't care. Companies are just like people, and they'll happily keep asking you for free rides if you give it to them.

The CPM gameplay adds a lot to the achievable skill compared to VQ3. After having been playing Vanilla/OSP for 6-7 years, getting into CPM was not only the most fun I had learning a game since the early days of quake 3, it was also gratifying that there was a way to become a better player and having the gameplay reward you so much more by using the best methods of both gameplays.

But looking back at VQ3 with this perspective, I will not be able to go back until something is done about the gameplay-breaking flaws that is the armor system, cripple effect and imbalanced weapons.

The aircontrol, rampjumps and fast weapon switches are not necessary settings.. but it surely makes the game a whole lot more interesting and most of all FUN..


If in VQ3 you're given WASD and one gun to defeat your enemy, where as if in CPM you'd be given WASD, jump and 5 fast switching guns.

Let me put it in a way that your tiny canadian mind can grasp: CPM adds freedom. Aircontrol, fastswitch, doublejumps - they all let you do something more. More freedom - more aim, more tactics, more skill. And don't give me that shit that more speed equals less tactics.

hows vq3 original? its been EXACTLY the same for 10 years. and you say that ql is a more balanced game and the players will move to it, why will they? changes could have been made to vq3 loooong ago but the shit storm wouldnt have been worth it

Exactly. People have been playing Quake casually and competitively for a long time. People want to be able to go back to the game they love, and have as much fun as they did before, if not more.

They'll move to Quake Live because of the size of the community, amount of players, and support. New content, patches, etc. Sure, weapon damages are different, but 90% of players aren't going to care that rail went from 100 to 80.

why do you think ql is going to have some huge player base? all i see it doing is splitting quake community again

VQ3'ers will eventually move to it, the only thing QL is missing now is more popular maps, and competitive features.

CPM won't move over, since it's not CPM.

I say QL will bring in more players because it already has. Last night had 1100-1300 players in servers.

It's free, it's simple, matchmaking, it's easy to setup, you don't need to download files, etc.

When QL is fully released, there will be no reason to play baseQ3 and CPMA VQ3.

why will vq3 move over since its not vq3 either?

i dont see the player base remaining high (is 1000 actually high?) for very long, people like to try new free stuff and it has the quake name, the actual number of serious (serious as in not complete newbs) players wont be anymore than it is now, maybe even less as alot of people will stick to vq3 in cpma, or any other mode of q3 available.

It is VQ3, just tweaked to a small amount.

Slight tweaks in movement, weapon damage, etc.

90% of players won't notice anything really. They might notice a bit, but it's still VQ3. Lots of people are still wanting invites, the reason it only has as much as it does is because it's invite only.

Just wait a bit for it to be a public beta. I'd honestly expect 2K online every night. Sure, that might seem very high, but we're already at 1200 a night.

New maps keep players coming back, and the matchmaking keeps them happy, and lets them have fun.

People thought q3 was dead when there was 4k players at any given time....

VQ3 original? It's basically Quake 2 without double jumping and ramp jumping. Different weapons/maps and gayer armor system and we have VQ3.

I think what he meant was it's the "original" Q3 as opposed to a mod.

When I say 'Original' I mean Quake 3 on release, BaseQ3.

You know what? You go play vq3, we'll play cpm, what the fuck is your problem?

Wow you're clueless. And yes, I like short comments.

I left Q3 to go to AQ2 and Reaction Quake 3. I came back a few years later for CPM. I would not have come back for the regular old vq3 duel.

My IRL friends that play casually play strictly CPM. VQ3 has a wildly different community and does not have the same attraction I think.

Losing in vq3 is way way way more raging than losing in CPM. People don't care about if its 100-0 or 50-0, my friends think losing 10-0 is bad enough, they think in hockey or football terms. In CPM you are impressed by the movement/dodge of the enemy and motivated to be as good once you lose, you see why, and you notice a difference once you manage to pick up an armor, in vq3 it's mostly just getting pushed back by rails and shaft and dying for 15 minutes, especially if you're being aggressive without being way stacked.

i think i just threw up ;(

You are the disease, not the solution.

I'm trying to help e-sports grow, and keep a positive attitude towards it.

And you are?

He's one of the guys in the promode team that is working on one of world's most skill requiring games.

PMX?

they'll include tetris for pauses?
AWESOME!!

he's the one who is doing it

not trying to

Time to kiss ass and take names. Oh wait, fuck that.

The esports community needs to stop relying on the god-damn government like a bunch of fucking communists and socialists. Rely on the Universe bitches, not the fucking government. When that leopard attacks, the government will not save you. If i'm in your room, pointing a gun at your head, i'll let you call the government, then i'll shoot you in your head, and i'll still escape before those slow government fucks even get the message.

USA

DEMOCRACY WILL PREVAIL

FOR THE MOTHERLAND

djWheat, one of the few voices of reason in gaming

Guys, just wait for Quake Live... and PMX :)
And after having a solid base of competitors we can take another step to bring duel, tdm and ctf to the mass media!

Guys just wait for Quake4, Unreal3, Tribes3, Doom3, Painkiller, and Warsow and then everything will be okay

pappapokerface

Stop that shit ffs.

Who is the asian chick in that pic?

Don't worry guys, things will change for the better.

Obama said so!

very thoughtful..i agree with a lot of stuff

good job wheat!

Ditching the term E-sports is the first step. It signifies game hopping and the needs of advertising and mass appeal over the community. Stick to games you enjoy, compete in them and build from that base, not on shifting sands of new games every year. If you want to keep it fresh design new maps and don't play such shallow games that they stop being fresh so quickly.

I prefer to say "competitive gaming"

Same. Even saying professional gaming seems very wrong. Maybe because there's less then ten people outside of Korea making a living from it.

=\

Yes. Well let this be E-sports' wake and I, for one, welcome our new competitive gaming overlords.

www.cgreality.com

console ftw in e-sports halo3 killzone2 street fighter4 just state it mlg ftw ??? greetz handewas...

Games which succeeded (i.e. in esports) in the long-run were those on which devs constantly took care off and prevented a community split by releasing a worse game than any of the many mod-developers. It's important that everybody plays the same game and devs must respect and seriously take into consideration game-improvements of their players. It's like in business, your customer is the king, if you don't listen to him he'll substitute you sooner or later trough a new game or a better mod on your game.

i.e.

Diablo2
WOW
Warcraft 1-3
Starcraft
Half-life
Counterstrike

Did you see any mod (ok, CS was originally a mod, but the devs were smart enough to sell and support the game as a stand-alone) on this game which had a major player base for it? I don't!

WoW = new eSport (if it can even be called that) and it has created a community split in that a lot of eSport fans hate it.

CS was a mod as you acknowledge but how did the release of Counter-Strike Condition Zero (being used by UKeSA) and Counter-Strike Source NOT create a split?

Starcraft - It's yet to be seen how SC 2 will affect it...Hopefully the transition will be smooth but at the moment all we can do is speculate.

Half-Life hasn't been used for eSports really...

why would someone pay for (video)lessons to learn to understand how a game works? Even if it was for free, hardly anyone who is not into gaming or into this specific game will watch this. And btw this has been done before. TAMM, this warcraft 2 player from sk, can't remember his nick, already couple of years ago. If I remember correctly it was also SK who offered counterstrike lessons for money to noobs a few years ago. Maybe they still do it, dunno. All in all I think this only turns out into moneymaking than in doing something for esports. Whoever takes this lessons and pays for it, is a giant idiot in my opinion tbh. As if taking lessons by Zidane makes me a better football player...lol. All I've seen so far was clans trying to take the money from some naive kids. And this won't change in future.

Maybe people personally relate more to gaming than to tony hawk, but come on... people relate more to taking a dump than to tony hawk. That doesn't really underpin any claim for esports, nor does this make "taking a dump" more glorious than tony hawk.

You can take anyone who has never seen professional skaters in action and show him some tony hawk footage. He'll instantly understand that what this guy is doing is just awesome. And pls. All this talk about korea being so progressive in esports is starting to get annoying. I bet this enthusiasm for starcraft won't last forever, just a temporary fashion until the next thing arrives these people can get nuts about.

And yes, this post likely symbolizes the hatred of the community towards organisations, for some good reasons imo.

nd pls. All this talk about korea being so progressive in esports is starting to get annoying. I bet this enthusiasm for starcraft won't last forever, just a temporary fashion until the next thing arrives these people can get nuts about.

Grats on being uninformed - just because the news is just now really hitting ESR doesn't mean that the game just took off. The game has been professional longer than most games have been out.

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is poker a sport ?