I must add that it is better to stay with OSP 1.03 than having a forced arQupdate with altered physics.

then why is there a problem in the first place? obviously osp is better so everyone plays it. oh shi-

The point is just that some people still wants to play osp (without major changes), so a little update wouldnt hurt anyone, especially not those who already play cpma at this time.

osp without major changes already exists. it's called osp

I want candy

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_IZPonG8kGCg/SRMRG3-...UKGG.1.jpg

Is it chocolate eyes:P?

interesting, although i hope this doesnt do more dmg than doing nothing

This information is kinda *old*, so hoping for an update is a little optimistic !

Just wanted to answer all the guys pm'ing me ;)

so how far have you come with your coding?

if osp without xerp and with the old physics makes a comeback, so might i.

I dont think you would be the only one :)

neither do i. i instaquit q3 once the cpma standards came :(

good.

come play cpm m8, lukrek can't control his horny-level cause of it

if ever i do get back to q3, that seems to be the most likely choice.

it's not that hard to get lukrek hard: just show him a picture of the lg with simpleitems 1.

even fazz has joined our cause now 8)

can't blame him. :)

what is the old ic gang up to nowadays, any plans for a comeback in quakelive (or cpm?)

This isn't news moved to forum.

this was an answer to a major q3 news (little old)

It isn't news. You just typed some garbage and then pasted a reply you got from rhea saying "I dunno lol, maybe".

You can try and rewrite it as a column or even news. News is concise and answers questions: What, Where, When. If it can't be written answers these questions its not actually news.

Great news that there is some effort!!
Most of the "pro" players prefer OSP so I got to wonder: why dont they use it on LAN tournaments then?

I would understand if it was used for online tournaments because of better netcode but why not to use the mod preffered (by players participating) on LAN? Just because of HUD, MVD, .. ? C'mon.

Also, I'd love to see players who did quit after CPL chose CPMA get back in the game. =)

Because the players saying that don't even play any more, and didn't play long before the switch. The only exception being cypher, who says the best games we played in OSP. He's right too, probably just a coincidence that there were about 10x the players back then and thus a better talent pool though.

Cyphers quote itself doesnt make much sense as proOSP argument. But I thought fox, czm, z4muz, zero4, cooller and some others whose nicks I dont remember atm preffered OSP too. And I consider those as players who played long before the switch (and still play now I think, not sure though since I lost interest in watching new demos from CPMA).

I dunno really, but even so... should we really be taking the 'word' of these players just because they're good? It's sorta in their interest to keep things how they are because that's what they dominated in.

I really don't have a problem with people preferring OSP I just wish they'd do it without whining about CPMA. It's not like CPMA stopped OSP from existing so if these idiots really cared they could keep playing it. If they're whining about how everyone else switched over then they should be crying more about wow since that's taken far more OSP players than CPMA ever will.

arguments, good ones.

Let's have it right.

Promode fucked OSP gaming up because some c**t did a deal with CPL/Angel so all the server admins changed over because OSP servers have always been tourney orientated so THEY HAD to.

When the shit hit the fan all it casued was arguments because many of the changes that were made were not needed nor suited to the slower style of play. It wasn't the same game, because Rhea, Czm, and so many other people who are qualified to say so say it. Despiite being called idiots and fantasists by all sorts of nobodies.

That is the only reason all these sad threads exist.

So don't put half arsed arguments about.
If it wasn't for CPM, they would even exist in the first place.

If you stuck to your game and let others stick to theirs then it would not be a problem. you didin't you meddled behind the scenes and caused problems that forced OSP players to change when most had been happy as they were.
Sadly, you don't seem to get it because you're unable to see the real cause of the problem because it lies with promode.

Hopefully if this gets updated then servers will revert back to their old ways with clearer differences in the mods and better still, the community.

OSP needs an announcement of this scale or a big tourney to get everyone to revert back to how it was before.

Because there was no sizeable annoucnement (after CPL crashed) everyone just sort of stuck with it. Using quake 3 as a world tour game was a false promise. Whether it was genuine or not, it never came to fruition and the use of the mod is ultimately tainted.

Thanks for taking their side, genuinely means a lot to me.

haha indeed

yeah.

We don't want to get forced to play CPMA!!


LET'S FORCE EVERYONE TO PLAY OSP!11

This just shows you are a jackass who does not know anything about q3 to begin with. Please do retort with your 'I was only trolling' mo.

You're the shittiest troll I've ever seen, a fucking joke.

Plussed you because your leprosy (unwillingly) discredit any valid arguments that the osp zealots might have had.

Innit :D

That sounds really true to me, but sad side is that cpma fanboy cannot understand that :)

tx for sharing

It's the immigrants' fault

The CPL chooses to use an actively maintained mod for its competitions, server admins follow suit, mod team blamed. The logic is impeccable.

Didn't Chris Moncivalles post here in esreality, that he chose CPMA for CPL because Arqon promised them direct support, but they never got it?

If that is the case, then blaming the mod team (or arqon specifically) is valid.

Never the less, the fact, that Rhea personally likes CPM more, but chose not to stuff it down the throats of a community that did not feel the same way, and even went as far as to protect that community from it, just underlines the contrast between him and the CPMA team and explains good deal about why he is the 'idol' of vq3 community, as you put it, while CPMA team gets mostly hate.

I've never heard anything about the CPL not getting support from the promode team. and I highly doubt that there were core features that were needed and that was ignored, cpma pretty much is the only really competetive ready modification for quake 3 out there, and thus I can't see why anyone would choose a inferior mod instead of it. this might be one of the best decisions the cpl ever did, it made the push from the outdated and bugged featureset/bugset of osp and into the very polished cpma dito. and the fact that the vq3 gameplay is flawed really isn't anyone elses fault than id and the way too conservative vq3 community.

Well, that is what the guy in charge of picking the mod for CPL wrote here, so I'm going to go with that.

I also think that most quakers care more about the gameplay and all the fluffy stuff on the side comes second. The argument, that vq3 gameplay is flawed, is not a fact, but you opinion. Closer to a Fact would be, that starting to use CPMA at that time, moved vq3 gameplay in to wrong direction.

quote or it didn't happen.

the fact is that the vq3 gameplay is flawed, and that the fixes cpma brought made those flaws very apparent. cpma hasn't changed the vq3 gameplay (which is what's causing a shitstorm), therefore the fault does not lie with the mod but the gameplay itself. the best way to resolve this still is for the vq3 players to get actively involved with the cq3 development and propose changes to fix the flawed gameplay (mimic osp if that's what everyone is after) without missing out on features, splitting the players between different standards and more importantly missing out on future support.

Unfortunately search in here does not work adequately, so i'm not able to offer a direct quote.

no need for it if you realize what dubcat's saying is the cold truth

I think both of you are mixing gameplay with game design. CPMA did change the gameplay of vq3, that is undeniable fact. They also were unable to change the design of it because of reasons I stated in another post.

vq3 isn't supposed to be changed, it is there with the same rules as were presented in baseq3.. for any alterations of the rules you (the community) have cq3 to work with..

you could sit here all day arguing that CPMA changed the gameplay of vq3, and to some extent i agree.. people depend on their hitscan more than ever.. but that is just because OSP were incapable of showing these flaws of vq3, which I can remind you were there ever since q3test in 1999..

CPMA merely came and said "hey guy, put these glasses on and you'll see what's wrong with the world" and is now allowing you (the community) to change it through cq3..

I do think OSP in lan enviroment was able to show those "flaws", if you will, but they were not as insurmountable untill CPMA aggravated them. And I do think that CPMA with it's continuing upkeep could have been great for vq3 (perhaps in the way of cq3), but the way it was implemented or should I say forced to the community made it just the opposite.

I just think, that moving to CPMA back then was a wrong decision and hurt the community. And if a catalyst for that change was deception from the developer(s) of CPMA towards CPL, I think they deserve some flak for it. Luckily with Quakelive we can move forward and maybe build strong community again, but I guess it never hurts to have somekind of backup plan like the guy who started this thread.

it's ironic that people seem to accept quake live having modified weapon damages to resolve overpowered hitscan, but in no way accept the same in cq3.. and to this day, quake live have a highly questionable netcode for competetive play.. CPMA have what quake live only dream of having, hence we see arQon working for id..

eventually quake live will be a younger, and possibly slightly retarded, brother of CPMA and the community will embrace it the way they should have embraced cq3.. and only then will they be willing to admit they've been idiots..

No I think that people would have accepted changes to vq3 in CPMA in order to fix it, but like I said, there were no mutual respect and you can not work together without it.

quakelive's design team is also completely focused on enhancing the vq3 experience while CPMA's design team called anyone playing it a retard. Thus people will naturally have more trust on quakelive to deliver them what they want. And as I also said, It's good to have backup plans in case quakelive fails to deliver.

from what I understand there were attempts to change the vq3 gameplay in cpma but the whine it generated was overwhelming and thus everything was reverted back to what it was (again, unchanged).

and I bet the qlive team at id thinks there's the same amount of retarded players and whiners that cpma does, the difference is that they are a company which rely on the players to excist and because of that they have to take the soft approach. the cpma team does things in their own time and can pretty much say whatever they like when people make uninformed claims or arguments. that doesn't mean they're not interested though, but you have to be aware of how to approach them with your issues.

Thus people will naturally have more trust on quakelive to deliver them what they want.

That's a funny way of saying "These people are ignorant."

Do you ever go on IRC? The developers regularly get pissed off at the community, to the point where they don't even hide it much any more.

That would not come as a huge suprise, when I think about the individual that binds these two teams together (the part of not hiding it or being rational about it).

no, you're the one missing the point. the reason for arq using the dm17 jumppads as a reference for the physics are that it's the way the gameplay is meant to be, the 125fps bug is what changed the gameplay from the start. so cpma vq3 is more vanilla than baseq3 or osp ever was. and the fact that the netcode is so good that the game actually plays like it was intended to. scream all you want about how cpma has changed the way vq3 has been played, the fact is that osp vq3 isn't the real vq3 gameplay. so to sum it up: it's NOT cpma's fault the vq3 gameplay has turned into crap, it's crap to begin with and needs fixing (HI! CQ3 ANYONE?!)

the attitude towards actually making a change in gameplay usually presents itself in the form of whining threads like these, it's pointless to try and force a change in this way. and in the end it seems it's pointless to even have any form of change at all, since all it does is generate even more whine.

oh, and before anyone says something about how the cpma team is unwilling to make these changes happen. you could either sit there and hope for things to fix themselves and stfu while you do it, or actually contribute to the process of making things right by participating in betas and gameplay testing, where your input is appreciated.

You are still confused about gameplay and game design. Q3 was designed to be played without strafejumps, but the bugs that allowed strafing made the gameplay feel better. And as Carmack tried to change things to be like they were "meant to be", as you put it, and remove strafejumping, the community "whined" and they had to implement it back.

And what comes to CPMA implementing something, they came here and asked vq3 community (was this the first time they tried to reach them btw?) what they think about xerp in vq3. About 90% of vq3 community said they want it out. CPMA's (or again arqon's) answer was: "if we implement this you are just going to whine about more things".

I'm done with this. you're deliberately ignoring the point.

You are still confused about gameplay and game design. Q3 was designed to be played without strafejumps, but the bugs that allowed strafing made the gameplay feel better.

So you're arguing opinion over functionality. You care more about how it feels than how it plays.

And what comes to CPMA implementing something, they came here and asked vq3 community (was this the first time they tried to reach them btw?) what they think about xerp in vq3. About 90% of vq3 community said they want it out.

You're talking about a poll on ESR with tons of proxy anons? The general consensus (outside of simple poll results) was that xerp was okay so long as we switched to CQ3. With every single Q3 tourney dead at this point, you're probably going to see plenty of CQ3 now.

CPMA's (or again arqon's) answer was: "if we implement this you are just going to whine about more things".

He's right. The whining you're doing now instead of pioneering your own mod is proof enough.

Strafejumping was a bug in Q2, I believe it was intentionall in Quake3...

Incorrect. It was bug in both, and in q3test Carmack tried to remove it and called it an exploit, only to be "reminded" by the community, that coders are not be all end all of game designing and that dedicated players usually do know better, even though their passion sometimes hinders their patience and ability to express themselves in a rational way.

I was under the impression it wasn't a bug in Q3 at all. The only bug about it in Q3 is the FPS bug.

Carmack decided he didn't enjoy the idea of people jumping around everywhere so he limited it to two jumps (?) before you had to stop before starting it again (After it had already been put in the game).

Your impression is false.
Here is a direct quote from Carmack's .plan during q3test "Strafe jumping is an exploitable bug."

That could simply mean it was a bug in Q2.

What inii said + it was q3test and obviously, they didn't put it in the commercial release.

OSP needs an announcement of this scale or a big tourney to get everyone to revert back to how it was before.

I honestly hope that SOMEBODY makes a new OSP mod so it can get no attention, and we can go back to ignorant, baseless attacks at CPMA.

Rhea didn't say he disagreed with the cpma changes and czm said he disliked the feel of the physics but I don't recall him asking to go back to OSP.

The switch to CPMA wasn't even instant, it was rather slow and gradual at first, most servers weren't Tourney orientated, TDM switched at pretty much the same time and gradually all but the CTF servers have changed.

CPMA has allowed way more players to play evenly. I played a TDM game yesterday, we drew, in OSP it would have been two easy wins simply because of ping.

you are sd?

sd? no

k, then that was just a coincidence ;)

fair pings in that game? :)

rest applied tho :P

We had to switch divs due to times we could play or something.

so aevans is you, k :)

Detective fjorgyn on the case :o

Gotta get all our games done over Easter before me/adr disappear again!

:P

Ping compensation is the only good thing about CPMA. But then again it must not be that hard to implement since the unlagged mod had it for ages, without screwing the physics.
The thing about unlagged is that it predicted up to 400 ms, resulting in weird situations when players had high pings. Add the unlagged netcode to OSP, capping the prediction to 100 ms as in CPMA/QL and there you go, the perfect mod.

Off you go then...

ok sombra..

"I don't recall him asking to go back to OSP"
because he's polite?

He could easily expressed a view of preference for the use of OSP politely.

He didn't.

you make it sound like a grand conspiracy that the entire cpm community forced cpl to use cpma.

the fact that cpma exists doesnt mean you have to use it. osp is still available if you look for it. its not our fault your dumbfuck community sits here and whines about a mod they dont even have to play.

cpl is dead so really go back to osp as the one reason you might have had to use it has been long gone.

there are tons of cpma servers that are locked to vq3 only anyways so why not just put osp on them instead

seriously why do you guys bitch about this as if cpma is on your servers and you cant do jack shit about it. put osp on if you like it so much, no one is going to come arrest you and really i dont think the cpm community would even care.

OSP

Good job buddy!

Can you say da da?

mofo big boy

all i hear is "prease makings the netcodes bad again so our gameplay unbrokens itself", and it's kind of surprising that rhea himself would prefer client-forcing 125 fps in a weak attempt to emulate independent physics than actual independent physics..

no disrespectings to rhea, it was the best mod for competitive play during it's time..

Not surprising at all, what CPMA did is stupid.

Anonysombra, is blaming cpma the new angle?

semi-interesting quote from Rhea, but what diff does it make

another semi-interesting fact that osp/vq3 acolytes seem to forget is that Rhea just like arqon prefers cpm to vq3:

http://clanbase.ggl.com/feature.php?nid=12&page=3 (2000 iview)

"What do you think about Pro Mode ?...
..ProMode is a great alternative that speeds up Q3 even more. I'd lean towards CPM and say that it should have been the default Q3A style of play, but we're stuck with id's implementation it seems, until a big tourney gets the balls to run CPM style tournies.
I personally think its a better spectator sport with more of the "wow" factor involved under CPM, but I know some people will disagree =) I'm still supporting vq3 until quake3 dies though.. its still fun too =P "

Don't ruin their idol for them.

You can say the same thing about PK. It doesn't make PK a good game.

That was just a phase he was going through, I'm reminded of a quote by my good friend lennox:

<lennox> doing it once doesn't make it gay like most russians think
(at least that's the gist of the quote)

Lennox: 1 time isnt a gay as russians say!

Gotta have the rhyme

I dunno...A man builds a 1000 bridges and sucks 1 cock, you don't call him a bridge-builder.

Depends if he suck his own cock. Or a rooster.

I don't think it matters whos cock it is or what kind of cock it is, he's still a cocksucker!

Where is your empirical evidence?

The fact he sucked a cock!

ye #play.osp, real competitive Gaming, LEGEND GAME!

yes! let's bring back modwars! WHAT AN AWESOME IDEA!!!1

esp. since the whole point is to bring back bugs to make up for flaws in gameplay design.

CPMA shafts OSP ez.

On a more serious note:

mvd
superhud
FOR THE LOVE OF CTHULU DO IMPROVE 'NETCODE'
remove build-in lag

then maybe It'll be good to modern standards:P

also no xerpy pls :E

Oh, also, CPMA altlightnings are a must.

Dudes, you do know Quakelive is out?

Dude, do you know theres no private server and lack of official ones in 2/3 of the globe?

most pointless thing i have ever heard

go play ql if you are so unhappy with cpma

Good luck, brave sir.

In other news I've been in contact with Bhrutto and he says he's considering updating his mod for Q4. The best damn mod evar.

Seriously, no mod war trolling here, who actually cares about osp anymore, random central European ctf players?

You should take a look on the poll, you would have figured it out.

It's roughly 50-50 (slight edge to CPMA), what are we learning from this?

Clever fritz, do you really think that a poll at esr actually correlates to reality in any way.

Off topic, the good thing about ql is that I got rid of OSP

It is possible to see from which country the votes come from (in answer to "random central European ctf players").

It is also possible to see that random newbs actually voted for CPMA.

Funniest thing is that morons trashtalking "fritz" ... usual cpma fanboys behavior ? Go to school plz.

I'm not a cpma/arqon fanboy, I'm a vq3 ctf player to begin with, so crap flaming there fritz.

really looking forward to your osp revival tbh.

rise from your grave!

p.s iniii is right, no-one is coming back.

"Seriously, no mod war trolling here, who actually cares about osp anymore, random central European ctf players?"

<= Normally those people should prefer CPMA, as CPMA provide us/them a 0ms feeling (hahaha...).

Who still play a lot Quake 3 today ? Is it duel players (ROFL) ? TDM players (thanks to NC we have some TDM matches) ? or CTF palyers ?

For sure, CTF players have the advantage (even if it's less than before), there still exists today few CTF leagues, and if you wanna play a pickup, you don't have to wait 3 days before to complete the pickup slots.

So what's wrong to improve (correct some bugs) and refresh a little bit OSP. !?

It's not because you personally doesn't care about OSP that everybody doesn't care about it.
If you had say "who cares about Quake3", it should have probably sounds better for me.

Co1nCo1n has spoken.

pure inspiration - http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9963/theospers.jpg

Dont feed the cpm'ers.

We do not need food.

Yeah your mouth is already full of arqon's ass.

Immense aggressiveness. You should see dr. House.

I already see each monday.

if half your efforts (note: not whine) would go into developing cq3 to a fixed vq3, it would a) be way better for the community overall, and b) already done. good luck reinventing the wheel though, you'll surely need it.

If half the effort of arQon in moding would go into satisfying the community by giving it a proper VQ3 without altered physics (or xerp shit), instead of just forcing a merge, everyone would play cpma vq3 or cq3 without complaining now.

Still, some would complain about some annoying bugs (you cant even watch a TDM demo with proper sound, ...), but the community wouldnt have been splitted that way.

I almost forgot, arQon is just an ass ?

"xerp shit" is an id software "shit" and OSP has it too, it just has a different name.

So you'd rather have the bugged baseq3/OSP movement physics than fixed ones?
Unless you're a defrag trickjumper (most of you people whining aren't) it's barely any different.

Pretty much everyone is already playing CPMA VQ3, I don't see any OSP TDM leagues, nearly all the VQ3 Duel cups I see are CPMA VQ3.

So who is playing OSP?
CTF players and who else?

So who is playing OSP?
CTF players and who else?

Mostly CTFers yes, and some who would come TDM back if OSP back into shape I think.

But the point is just to give an update to the players who just doesnt want to play CPMA, nothing more.

I think.

I see a flaw in your plan.

Nobody is coming back.

OSP TDM was dead before CPMA started to be used. If anything TDM has become more active again since CPMA.

The truth.

why his 85fps physics stubbornness ?

everyone would play cpma vq3 or cq3 without complaining now.

ROFL

I just wanna have one more say, what the fuck does arqon have to do with this?
Afaik he doesn't do any updates to CPMA atm and that's the way it's been for quite some time, qurelka is the one maintaining CPMA right now. And he already did a bunch of changes to Cq3.

yeah especially since the last 1.47 beta arrived (here)
with a bunch of cq3 fixes / updates / whatever.
I'd suggest to give feedback on that instead of splitting the community even further.

[+]'d for making sense to a degree even retards can catch up on

you underestimate esretards rep

[+] for the term "esretards", how hasn't anybody else thought of this yet?

really nobody hasnt? it's so obvious

Beat by mindless gtv spam http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1261007

revoN (308): STFU ESRETARDS

Back in 2k6. Now plus me plenty.

Been used forever

That may be so but search on this site doesn't yield any results that are older.

:( I still aint plussing that!

You're just jealous of my creativity and that I'm part of the history in the making!

that's funnier. i'm plussing that.

I'd suggest to give feedback on that instead of splitting the community even further.
It has already been done several times.

I even remember some news about osp 1.04 long time ago on esr, btw arQon never listened to anyone but him.

Splitting the community even further it not good, no matter how many times it's been done before.
Even though my main mode is cpm doesn't mean that I doesn't play vq3 / cq3 game.
Another split in the community would mean:
1. Cpm
2. Vq3/Cq3
3. Osp
Instead of just the two first that we have today (except for ctfers).
I want my q3 to feel / look and behave the same no matter what I play. That's one of the main reasons why I wouldn't ever move to osp if it were to rise again. When I wanna play that occasional game of vq3 I'll just skip it and do something else.

I'll just end this comment with the obvious, the difference between vq3 and osp ain't big enough to go through all this hassle.

.

Some still wanna play with minor bugfixes, who are you to tell these guys that q3 is dead and you dont care about this ?
Nobody cares about your opinion in fact.

Lots of people still play 1.16n too, god knows why. OSP should just be left alone to it's own little niche now. It came, it saw, it conquered, and it went. Oh well....

You are right, but it is kinda logical to try to have a little update. It wont hurt anybody since cpma is wayyyyy better, isnt it ?

On the contrary. How is it logical to break something AGAIN that's been fixed?

FPS-independent physics are really no big deal considering all the other advances CPMA has made. I was against the switch here in NA initially, mainly because I hated VQ3 in prior CPMA releases (waiting for OSP to be patched after 1.01 was released some years ago). But after playing it again for just a week, I was sold. The fact that fps-independent physics enforced an equal playing field that had been ignored for so long in OSP, while improving netcode, was just another bonus, imo.

This argument is moot because none of the changes are going to happen. You're just petitioning for a group that doesn't even know how to begin to affect change and will either continue to argue a baseless opinion or go on playing OSP in the state it is in, which is the proper course of action.

But after playing it again for just a week, I was sold.
Your comment is very valuable, tho you need to understand somtehing too. For those who just still play osp, it worth a try to get some little bugs fixed, nothing more.

arQon did for a sure a great work on netcode or other feature, but some just prefer play with an "outdated" mod. Even if osp is far from cpma (considering some improvments), you cant just ignore it.

The fact is that CTF is still mostly osp-based, and these players just try to get some minor fixes :)

a great work on netcode or other feature, but some just prefer play with an "outdated" mod.

Newsflash: You're already playing an outdated mod. By definition you cannot request updates.

he is not requesting updates to be made. he is requesting to be given a chance to make the updates the players need

At least someone reads correctly :)

Bleh

Why are you still here? Haven't you been laughed at enough?

The funniest part is to see that arQon said that the new CPMA vq3 is exactly as OSP, but he doesnt even have a proper OSP source code.

And the "arQon wanted to merge the names so bad (dropping CPMA completely and just going with the OSP name brand)" just shows how much arQon wanted his mod to be played at any price.

Rhea has made a good move not gaving his blessing.

Complaining about some peeps that ONLY play osp that want a little update is just SELFISH.

And please, since you have something better to work on (a bugged mod), please do so and stop posting shit on OSP news since you do NOT care.

The funniest part is to see that arQon said that the new CPMA vq3 is exactly as OSP, but he doesnt even have a proper OSP source code.

You're right, I'm sure the latest is a huge difference. You have to do quite a bit of work to make it EXACTLY THE SAME AS IT WAS.

And the "arQon wanted to merge the names so bad (dropping CPMA completely and just going with the OSP name brand)" just shows how much arQon wanted his mod to be played at any price.

People care so much about the name instead of the gameplay. This is conclusive proof. You've done it again.

Seriously, though, "orange smoothie" is hard to take seriously in any situation.

Rhea has made a good move not gaving his blessing.

...and? He's not some authority on VQ3 - id is. He also thinks CPM should replace VQ3. Fancy that.

Complaining about some peeps that ONLY play osp that want a little update is just SELFISH.

You guys don't play the mod you have, and you want people who develop their OWN mod to support YOUR playstyle. THAT is selfish. If you didn't like CPMA, you should have just shut your mouth and made your own mod from the start instead of just playing it or quitting entirely.

And please, since you have something better to work on (a bugged mod), please do so and stop posting shit on OSP news since you do NOT care.

( Forum: Q3)

"n) forum (a public meeting or assembly for open discussion) "

Welcome to a forum. Though, if you can manage to get an OSP filter, I'll gladly enlist!

People care so much about the name instead of the gameplay. This is conclusive proof. You've done it again.
No, everyone would play OSP even if it was renamed, the important point is the feeling only (to me at least).

You guys don't play the mod you have, and you want people who develop their OWN mod to support YOUR playstyle. THAT is selfish. If you didn't like CPMA, you should have just shut your mouth and made your own mod from the start instead of just playing it or quitting entirely.
Well, the CPMA vq3 was clearly brought to the community saying it will be just like OSP without any changes. Now some just complain about this lie ?

If I could play a proper OSP in CPMA vq3, I would have been clearly satisfied...

No it was stated that CPMA VQ3 would be Vannila Q3 which is the same as in OSP with FPS independant physics.

This is what was released and it's what we got.

No, everyone would play OSP even if it was renamed, the important point is the feeling only (to me at least).

...and that important part as brought everyone (but you, at least) to CPMA.

Well, the CPMA vq3 was clearly brought to the community saying it will be just like OSP without any changes. Now some just complain about this lie ?

Lie? He didn't make you any promises, and he doesn't owe you anything. Point me to the part where arQon told you it would be the same, as well.

If I could play a proper OSP in CPMA vq3, I would have been clearly satisfied...

What does it matter? OSP still exists, you don't need to play CPMA. Nothing is stopping you from simply playing OSP, but you don't. Nobody does.

In the months it has been since I said that you do nothing but complain, you have nothing to show for it. You could easily have made the mod yourself by now, or even outsourced/paid people to do it, but you haven't. I think you're trying to rally support to get someone else to do it, much like you expect arQon to do your work for you.

much like you expect arQon to do your work for you.
Nop, because I expect arQon to fix some CPMA bugs, not coming back on what he did. VQ3 is not bugged, it is just different, and I think he did exactly what he wanted.

Even if I dont play CPMA, I like to watch gtv demos, and if the bug sound was fixed, that would be very nice. MVD is a great feature, but now we need this sound trouble to be fixed and at least spectators will be happy :)

Nop, because I expect arQon to fix some CPMA bugs, not coming back on what he did.

Your only complaint is a sound bug, which isn't even really a bug or an issue.

VQ3 is not bugged

Then you don't mind me using 333fps, right?

Even if I dont play CPMA, I like to watch gtv demos, and if the bug sound was fixed, that would be very nice. MVD is a great feature, but now we need this sound trouble to be fixed and at least spectators will be happy :)

non-issue. Apparently it's not bad enough to make you stop using it, either.

Sorry, I meant CPMA-VQ3 is not bugged, not VQ3 =)

And yes, i dont care about you using 333fps

The sound "bug" is kinda annoying tho, and makes the demo less enjoyable.

That you have no problem with 333fps physics exposes that you have no idea what you are talking about, and as thus should be ignored.

Saying that some random newbs like you using 333 fps doesnt bother me, in every case you lose, what is the point of this ?

The point is one of two:

a) You don't know that 333fps fucks up q3
b) You don't care that 333fps fucks up q3

Either way, you're an idiot.

Do you know what VQ3 is like with 333fps? I forget the next fps step, but I'm fairly confident my video card could hit it, and break the game even more. The old physics were broken - plain and simple.

You are not able to use a 333 fps cap in osp so yea, go ahead and use com_maxfps 333, I don't care, you will get 125 anyway :D

Are you saying that OSP modified the game in an attempt to limit the way people could abuse the physics? This is madness!

(was waiting for this argument from him, but I don't think he's equipped for it)

Not an attempt, they limited it. So there is no problem at all with OSP physics.

Apparently, there was a problem with VQ3 physics.

Not anymore when limited to 125-142 fps, which OSP did. Anything else? Oh yeah, CPMA VQ3 physics are shit, too bad there's no cap avaiable to fix that.

so you are saying it doesnt matter if you have 125fps or 75fps in osp as long as there is a cap at 125fps?

Nowadays everyone has 125 fps or more. In the range 0 to 142 fps, the max jumping heights are reached in the 112 to 142 fps IIRC, all the other ranges result in lower heights. Put the 125 fps cap, the default com_maxfps to 125 for the newbies, and there you go, non expoitable standard physics that feel good.
There was no need for the crap CPMA did, specially when in 1.32 even id came with the pmove_fixed command to simulate 125 fps for those who couldn't reach that framerate, so that was the game creators intentions, not well, as I said, crappy CPMA physics.
And if you consider very very necessary to make the physics non fps dependant (even thought everyone have a computer capable of 125 fps, and with the OSP cap they are non exploitable), then emulate the 125 physics, not the "same height but lower acceleration" or something like that that was thrown to us, which might be the physics that id wanted when they released Q3, but weren't in the latest 1.32 release (pmove_fixed). Also when the 125 fps were already a standard in the community.
Arqon's reasoning was something like "but now you get the armors in dm17 properly". Really, who the fuck cares about that, when it's suposed to be a competition mod. It's just a stupid excuse for another of his ego filling impositions on the community. And I'm amazed some of the community systematically swallow it.

what if ppl with lcds want to play with 75fps and 75hz for better smoothness?

Already covered in the second paragraph.

Make proper allineas please, hard read:E

pmove is server side and was never ever used because "lol physics feel different" and if you honestly think arqon fixed the fps dependent physics bug so the rainbow jump pad to quad on dm17 would work correctly then you're an idiot.

He fixed them so he could add other features to the game without having to fucking hack around it because the physics are fundamentally BROKEN. I think it would've been nice of him to try and emulate the OSP physics more, but honestly look at it from his point of view, let's reverse the situation:

CPM is what Q3 shipped with, you're a mod developer that makes a new gameplay mod called VQ3 (later renamed to VQ3A when you add arena support) and over the course of time you decide to remove support for CPM because there's already another mod with the gameplay additions designed for CPM (OSP in this instance).

Years pass and eventually OSP stops being updated, more years pass and for whatever irrelevant reason you add support for CPM again, however over the course of those years you've made several changes to the game fixing a lot of the bugs, the most significant of which was the physics bug that caused you to have to implement hacky workarounds to do simple things like prediction, better sound code and multiview.

Several months later a large tournament who nobody even likes starts using your mod for the extra features, you think "oh right cool" and then go back to snowboarding or whatever the fuck it is you do. Some of the CPM community starts to whine because these physics changes make the game feel slower to them, also some shit about xerp when they finally figure that out, anyway you have 2 choices: 1) You attempt to emulate the old broken physics of the other mod somehow knowing that no matter what it won't feel exactly the same and will be a fruitless endeavour for a minority who will whine no matter what, or 2) You make a few posts trying to explain your position and then give up because it's a gameplay you genuinely don't give a fuck about and you're a bit of a cunt and hate everyone even the people who play the gameplay you now maintain except for this one man you see promise in, his name is Liam; a young, spunky quake player from Liverpool with a passion for pies games. Years later you finally anoint Liam as ombudsman and supreme power of VQ3, his rule is a veritable triple threat of firmness, justice and masculinity, he is very muscular which some people mistake as fat like that fucken prick reptile who always makes fun of him even though he has no idea what the fuck he's talking about and if Liam ever met him he'd fucken twat his face in stupid faggot yeah you're really funny changing the gravity to be super high when we're playing low grav rl gl pg bfg only CTFS on ctf4 right when we're over a void causing us to fall to our deaths just because you're losing it's NOT FUNNY ANYMORE YOU STOP IT, YOU STOP IT RIGHT NOW

I think I've made my point.

i would beat the shit out of that guy for making cpm slow. :E

Why should I see things from the developer's perspective? The phrase "By the players, for the players" is printed in CPMA. 125 fps has been the standard for many years for VQ3'ers, you can't go and impose a different set of physics just because they were already there for CPM'ers. Either leave them as they were or stop imposing different standards on a community you don't even care about.

And no matter how broken the physics originally were, 125 fps for everyone makes everyone have the same set of physics. If as fjorgyn said, some people need lower fps for whatever reasons, then the logical thing is emulate the 125 fps physics which are the standard of the VQ3 community, not something else. You are making a mod for the VQ3 community, then "by the players for the players", as he pretends to say. By the way as I said earlier, also id wanted 125 fps physics hence the pmove_fixed command. I know it's clientside, but how is that relevant to anything?

To make myself clear: I don't think making the physics independent to fps is wrong, quite the contrary. But changing the physics relative to the community standards by doing so is.

I guess the important thing to add some features you talk about is making the physics fps independant. It doesn't matter if you emulate what he emulated, or de 125 fps standard, does it? By the way, which features are that? Ping compensation which was there ages ago in unlagged mod and was possible without chaning physics, or xerp?

you can't go and impose a different set of physics just because they were already there for CPM'ers. Either leave them as they were or stop imposing different standards on a community you don't even care about.

OSP did it to VQ3, so why not?

And no matter how broken the physics originally were, 125 fps for everyone makes everyone have the same set of physics.

...what do you think the CPMA physics do?

If as fjorgyn said, some people need lower fps for whatever reasons, then the logical thing is emulate the 125 fps physics which are the standard of the VQ3 community, not something else.

Those "whatever reasons" are rather important. Why should I have to put up with your 125fps if I can easily pull 333fps? Your only issue with the change is the 2 jumps you can't do on certain maps. This can be fixed with new maps (which the game needs ANYWAY) whereas it's completely redundant against gameplay.

By the way as I said earlier, also id wanted 125 fps physics hence the pmove_fixed command. I know it's clientside, but how is that relevant to anything?

pmove doesn't feel the same - that's why it wasn't popular from the start. Didn't you see the whine about things like xerp?

I did originally have something typed out because basically you just ignored pretty much everything I said in my post and then ranted about the same shit but if ESR has taught me anything, arguing logic with spaniard is a waste of time.

I heard from a reliable source that spaniards cheat logic so they don't have to use it.

spanish logic may be broken, but it really should be broken for everyone.

The phrase "By the players, for the players" is printed in CPMA.

Oh please, this is nonsense, you should have misread ! :-)

Agreed, it should read "By some guys not employed by id software but still fixing their shit during their free time, for a bunch of whiners who troll forums 24/7 and play a rare game of Q3 every other year."

[+] for pies

What do you need a cap for on something that plays the same on all machines to begin with?

It's selfish to ask for a "little update" when a "big update" has already been created ages ago. You're asking him to do more work, for free, for a minority of players. You could at least offer the guy some incentives, but no all you do is whine and basically post abuse.

The planned updates you listed in that poll were a joke, a total waste of time and effort. More characters in the name? Please, that's not important.

I think Rhea was short-sighted and selfish by not agreeing to merge the two mods, if he had the community wouldn't have ever been split up so much between two different mods.

When arQon "merged" the two mods, he didn't need the latest OSP source code since CPMA had long since obliterated OSP funtionality.

It's selfish to ask for a "little update" when a "big update" has already been created ages ago.
If you are glad and satisfied with Windows XP, and you just want some little fixes, so you would go on Vista without complaining because Bill just let XP alone ? sure. (it's an example, dont bring me the money thing, plz)

The planned updates you listed in that poll were a joke
Like I said, it is not important, and will not change anything, just improves a little the mod, most of OSPers dont want more...
OSPers doesnt want OSP to be in first line before CPMA, just some updates to make the game improved...

but no all you do is whine and basically post abuse.
I think if some CPMers werent trashtalking "fritz", ... The thread would only have been constructive...

If you are glad and satisfied with Windows XP, and you just want some little fixes, so you would go on Vista without complaining because Bill just let XP alone ? sure. (it's an example, dont bring me the money thing, plz)

Nobody is stopping you from developing Linux.

You are again right, but it is worth just asking for the little fixes if someone can answer (like Rhea did).

ql > osp

at least osp lan did not show u high ping :O

Posting in epic thread...

Just play QuakeLive :X

Is it really that big of a deal to just play Quake Live?

god, how can one be just a good player today between all these variations of a good game?! impossible!

I don't give a fuck about osp or cpma, but ql lacks maps
"play ql" doesn't really works

Yeah that really makes me laugh, I mean QL is fun and all but it just proves how stupid some of these players are that they'd rather play QL over CPMA. QL is not made for 'us', it's extremely limited in every way that counts, no custom maps/mods/servers.

It's a fun game but it's not competitive.

It's about as fun as Q4.

I like what you're doing analyzer, don't let the arQon fanboys get to you!

Who are these "we/us" that you keep claiming to be talking on the behalf of?
Have you actually done anything productive to call yourself their leader?

Rhea stopped caring about OSP years ago, but instead of complaining about him, you whine at everyone else.

JA I SEE HIM
SCHNELL
JAWOHL MEIN FUHRER

I NEED AMMO.

GRANATE

Having some nazi oriented words in a comment just let us know how shit minded you are.
Plz go on.

Edited out the single word that allowed to you ignore my valid questions.

Now please reply instead of going offtopic.
Odds are that you will not, since you have nearly no followers and you have done absolutely nothing productive.

Have you actually done anything productive to call yourself their leader?
Nobody said im a leader, Im just trying to get an update for anyone playing osp. According to the number of private messages I got, I'm not the only one interested in this.

The we/us are in fact the splitted community (half the players ?) which is not willing to stick to cpma.

When you claim to speak on behalf of a community and contact a dev, you DO act as a leader of that community.
What makes you worthy to represent the osp community?
How have you helped the osp community?

"When you claim to speak on behalf of a community and contact a dev, you DO act as a leader of that community.
What makes you worthy to represent the osp community?
How have you helped the osp community? "

If nobody moves and nobody tries to do something (whatever the way to proceed), nothing gonna change.

And why he couldn't be "our"/"a" leader ? Is there something ashamed to be a leader ?

Are you afraid, all CPMA unconditional (fanatic) lovers, to have a serious concurrent if a refreshed OSP is done. Concurrent which will probably be able to recover its (past) 1st place once it will be a little "debugged", "improved" ? o_O

If not, what's going wrong with you, about letting OSP players to have fixed bugs (perhaps few new features) in their favourite mods, and let them try to have more fun with it (which is not the case for them with CPMA) ?

And promised, once it is done, we will let CPMA return to those who loves weird feeling and unbalanced game (CPMA fucked up weapons balancing @ xerp @ 70percent LG and so on... more than OSP does, unfortunately, with its ping disadvantage... but a lot of people used to play, and adapt, with it).

"YES WE CAN"...

...or not, but we tried.

I have nothing against OSPers as such. It's certainly preferable that people play ANY type of q3 instead of wow.

But analyzer is just not qualified to make any well-founded, non-raged arguments and he is not your best bet at getting Rhea to care again.

But analyzer is just not qualified to make any well-founded, non-raged arguments
You for sure dont know me, Im kinda not aggressive to begin with, and the flame always came from cpmers (I just answer them). Perhaps they are afraid of something, duno why tho ? (as stated by Co1nCo1n)

The people involved in OSP refreshing are all decent coders, so I dont really see where the problem could be.

he is not your best bet at getting Rhea to care again.
Rhea is kinda comprehensive, and apparently he has made some changes to OSP even if there was no update. If he decides to build something, everyone will be glad (especially ctfers).
Im not trying at all to get Rhea to care again, since he's a busy man, but at least:
- a recent build of the changes he has made,
- give the community a chance by maintaining OSP (external coders).

"The people involved in OSP refreshing are all decent coders, so I dont really see where the problem could be."

So why don't these secret coders talk?

Instead of some fanatic who has absolutely no idea of coding, or what's best for a mod - meaning you. Ignoring your random ramble and focusing solely on the VERY important updates you propose for OSP (longer name cvar? utterly pointless 1v1 stats like distance travelled added to topshots, 10sec vote and so on).
It is obvious that you are clueless and wouldn't know what to do with the source should you get it.

There's nothing wrong with OSP being updated, hell I wish it had been done years ago. But honestly I can understand why Rhea is reluctant to release the source code to a random guy like you.

rhea can't even release the code without arqon agreeing at least according to someone: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1584354#pid1584354

Well I guess it goes both ways and I know for a fact that arQon can't/wont release CPMA sourcecode without Rhea's consent since they still share some codebase. Or perhaps it's just an convenient excuse to never release their work to clueless muppets like analyzer or the CA crowd.

So now I understand that getting sourcecode will be quite impossible :) (but still weird, because since cpma is way better/imrproved, and that you need 2 weeks to make an OSP-clone from scratch (c) Vedic)

lets hope rhea will at least build the last changes he did to upstream

Since you can't code, you still haven't answered who are those programmers you claim to have ready to update osp?

Since you cant buy a brain, plz stop asking useless questions ^^

So I'm guessing you don't have any coders?

You are either right and dumb, or not.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1681527


gogogo and contribute.

I think this is also a good idea, and will help some people to have more fun, happy to see there is still some activity !

but you want your precious OSP instead?

The people involved in OSP refreshing are all decent coders, so I dont really see where the problem could be.

A few months ago, you were trying to take credit yourself for updating this, and now you have others who are apparently decent coders who can't update a base mod in a few weeks time?

If you don't have time to even make the SMALL upgrades needed to even make an OSP clone, you would never have enough time to fix real bugs.

They need the source to updating it uh?
Please stop talkin'bout things you can't understand:)

Where do you think OSP came from? You can write your own mod EASILY, especially since all you'd be doing is adding a few small things to the already present VQ3 code.

Step off, kid.

Who are these secret coders you claim to have lined up?

If not, what's going wrong with you, about letting OSP players to have fixed bugs (perhaps few new features) in their favourite mods, and let them try to have more fun with it (which is not the case for them with CPMA) ?

In case you weren't paying attention, he was on this same rant a few months ago. He could have made the mod himself by now, but he decided not to. He's more trying to rally support to his cause to get it done by someone else than by himself. It's rather greedy.

None of us care about OSP being remade, we just care that it doesn't go anywhere but talk. We just want one of you to shut up and make it so you can shut up and play. It seems OSP is filled with a bunch of whiners and modDB whores.

1st: Who said I was intersted in making a mod from scratch ?
2nd: Who said the coders involved in this have the time to make a mod from scratch ?

For the last time, we dont want an OSP clone which will never be exactly as OSP, we just want some fixes.

And yes, we will be skilled enough to maintain a mod and correct some bugs.

None of us care about OSP being remade, we just care that it doesn't go anywhere but talk.
As you stated just before in thread, forums are made to talk.

(Forum: Q3)
"n) forum (a public meeting or assembly for open discussion) "

1st: Who said I was intersted in making a mod from scratch ?

That is exactly your problem. You want someone else to do the work. You only want the OSP code because you hope you'll be able to read one or two guides and be able to put your features in.

2nd: Who said the coders involved in this have the time to make a mod from scratch ?

Who said the CPMA devs do? They have a lot to work on in many different parts of the game, but you seem to feel it's just fine to expect them to work on the SIDE part of the game.

For the last time, we dont want an OSP clone which will never be exactly as OSP, we just want some fixes.

And yes, we will be skilled enough to maintain a mod and correct some bugs.

You can't even make a simple mod - how do you intend to upkeep one that somebody else made?

As you stated just before in thread, forums are made to talk.

Forums are made for DISCUSSION, not just talk. You have not said anything new that you haven't said already a few months ago. It's obvious you're not going to get anything done, so all you have is empty talk. Come back when you have something. (read: never)

You only want the OSP code because you hope you'll be able to read one or two guides and be able to put your features in.
You are just dumb I think. THE COMMUNITY want OSP because it is THE mod we want to play with. We dont even care having source, since an update will be fairly enough.

Who said the CPMA devs do? They have a lot to work on in many different parts of the game, but you seem to feel it's just fine to expect them to work on the SIDE part of the game.
1. Nobody want CPMA crew to work on OSP, since you cant answer simply to a request or smth else.
2. If you had a lot of work, you wouldnt be posting like you do, to say anything interesting but just to annoy everybody.
3. arQon said long time ago he could update OSP to 1.04 (before receiving a lot of flaming, which he doesnt deserved at this time), read on ESR.
4. Based on the massive bugs introduced in the game (scoreboard, timers, GTV, etc), you should stop considering that the others are shit coders.

You can't even make a simple mod - how do you intend to upkeep one that somebody else made?
WE HAVE NO TIME TO MAKE A MOD FROM SCRATCH, and IT IS NOT THE POINT SINCE THE COMMUNITY WANT OSP TO BE UPDATED, NOT A F***ING CLONE.

You have not said anything new that you haven't said already a few months ago.
Your comments are for sure very interesting, and you bring something new to the discussion. Even a discussion with a drunk guy would make more sense...
And yes, I bring in the thread an answer from Rhea, and a lot of people cared about this, so please stop answering for everybody, and go work on your mod plz.

1. Nobody want CPMA crew to work on OSP, since you cant answer simply to a request or smth else.

You can't even dedicate enough time to build an OSP clone from the ground up, so what requests will you fulfill?

2. If you had a lot of work, you wouldnt be posting like you do, to say anything interesting but just to annoy everybody.

So what do my actions have to do with your lack of actions or OSP or CPMA or anything? Trying to make excuses now for your own shortcomings? It's okay, we already know that you don't have the nuts, you don't need to try to hide it.

3. arQon said long time ago he could update OSP to 1.04 (before receiving a lot of flaming, which he doesnt deserved at this time), read on ESR.

I could write an entire mod, but I won't because I both don't care and am not being paid. For what purpose should arQon do anything for you?

4. Based on the massive bugs introduced in the game (scoreboard, timers, GTV, etc), you should stop considering that the others are shit coders.

What others? What are you even talking about?

WE HAVE NO TIME TO MAKE A MOD FROM SCRATCH, and IT IS NOT THE POINT SINCE THE COMMUNITY WANT OSP TO BE UPDATED, NOT A F***ING CLONE.

You obviously haven't even looked into it. If you think the bug fixes you want will be 5 minute edits to existing code, you're an even bigger idiot than you let on. OSP is just a mod of Q3 with minor modifications. If you couldn't bring yourself (or now these phantom coders you speak of) to even TRY to learn and look at how much work it would be, you stand NO chance against real code.

Your comments are for sure very interesting, and you bring something new to the discussion. Even a discussion with a drunk guy would make more sense...
And yes, I bring in the thread an answer from Rhea, and a lot of people cared about this, so please stop answering for everybody, and go work on your mod plz.

Oh please, if you mean the dozens upon dozens of proxy anon votes on the forum poll (on ESR rofl), you need a better excuse. Face it, nobody really cares. You don't bring any answer, and it's already evident that you would have no idea what to do with the code when you got it, so now you're even wasting Rhea's time.

I honestly hope you get it so you can shatter the dreams of the few OSP fanboys still around. With them gone, perhaps the existing community would finally be able to accept change.

holy shit, you should be dumb, really

go to school or smth, I stop wasting my time reading your comments since you will ever try to have the final word, I let you have it.

Oh please, if you mean the dozens upon dozens of proxy anon votes on the forum poll (on ESR rofl), you need a better excuse.
All nicknames are real for OSP voters, I dont expect as much for the other, so just stfu

holy shit, you should be dumb, really

go to school or smth, I stop wasting my time reading your comments since you will ever try to have the final word, I let you have it.

Irony crits you for 9999.

All nicknames are real for OSP voters, I dont expect as much for the other, so just stfu

So if you subtract the 99% anons, you have 17 people. Grats.

you are gay, so your opinion doesnt count

too late, the vq3 virus almost killed osp.
Somehow some CTFrs are immune :o

this thread is full of win

yeah lets sit back and watch the puppets throw dirty at each other.

You got Rhea to tell everyone about his lack of interest for the matter.

Congratulations.

On a more serious note:
Why don't you guys go and get a bunch of 56k Modems and have some fun?

Why do you still try and get ESR behind you, dude? You get served everytime you come here.
Play OSP and shut the fuck up.

"the ClanBase Head admin Staff (Slajer / RiGhT)."

woohoo you guys dumped over Willem and Nico, gj! :p

Their support is appreciated :p

I bet you forgot to mention erazor, he's very high head admin of clanbase too :)

yea, but we all know he backs the wrong horse when it comes to mod wars ;)

haha, nice.. plussed

I see that modwar isn't exactly over yet? :)

Beating the dead horse is just too much fun

Who's care about OSP and Quake right now, since the sad end of the ESWC ?

"QUAKE 3 IS DEAD "
(c)2003 by Jazka (a famous French player... Probably a little little little child of Nostradamus)

May be he's mean osp is dead ?

this reply is pure gold, i'd plus it 17802 times if i could.

-famous+former !

OSP FTW!

Ga je mond eens spoelen met zeep!

Niet zulke gekke dingen zeggen jongeman!:>

:[

i don't see the point of all this.

it is probably to check if somebody still alive in the Q3 community... o_O

as far as i see lots of people there are brain dead

OSP to replace cpma...for sure but...the bench of cpma player gonna stay on cpma like OSP player stay on OSP to play CTF.
But im sure about cpma player lame cause xerp gonna be remove if we change comp mod to OSP

" if we got a update "

the only reasonable solution would be to use something like cq3 with emulated 125fps physics

which means
-good netcode (with xerp and whatever can improves it)
-new weapon balance
-the physics most people like, which are the 125fps one

and this obvious solution has/is/will come crashing down into the osp/cpma/whatevermod fanboys wall (until cpl tell them what to play ofc)

and this obvious solution has/is/will come crashing down into the osp/cpma/whatevermod fanboys wall (until cpl tell them what to play ofc)
Indeed, even if I dont particularly like the new weapon balance (we will need an adaptation ^^), at least physics would be the same...

But you missed something there, cpma dev crew doesnt care a shit about the opinion of anyone.

yeah that's why qrealka released a cpma 1.47 beta with cq3 changes, because he doesn't care. maybe get your facts straight and read up on a few things before you spit out shit 24/7.

I/we dont care of cq3 changes, and thats all that count for arQon.
Perhaps one time you will understand that.

What if CPMA COULD and DID emulate similar physics to OSP in VQ3? Would you bother with OSP then or are there other issues?

if CPMA had proper OSP support, i don't think anyone would care, they'd just play

I mean specifically what is "proper OSP support" other then the physics?

imo, pretty much that and excluding the overpowered shaft
before you flame, i play vq3 AND cpm, ive played cpm much longer than vq3 as well

I agree

who care about cq3..??

it's supposed to be a fixed vq3 because vq3 won't be touched?

arqon should just remove vq3 from cpma to end these retarded threads

That would be hilarious tbh. All the whine, gawd.

can any1 please point the major differences between osp and cpma vq3? ive been away from the scene for a while :p

cpma has fps-independent physics that end up being a tad cleaner but also slower for movement, so in combination with an awesome netcode the pathetic gameplay called vq3 makes all it flaws obvious and people bitch about it.

D;

OSP gameplay was traditionally described as 'balanced', as in every weapon had it's use for example. Switching to CPMA (that was obviously never designed specifically vq3 in mind) broke a lot of that balance by slowing the movement down and boosting hitscan weapons versus projectile weapons (albeit indirectly, but the effect is the same), without being able to compensate it anyway, as they did not have the respect of vq3 players and thus were never able to build any real communication between the players of their mod and the development team.

>they did not have the respect of vq3 players and thus were never able to build any real communication
--
And I shed a single tear.

Switching to CPMA (that was obviously never designed specifically vq3 in mind)

Why do you say it "broke" something if it wasn't designed for it in the first place? Do you consider your civic broken when you can't go offroad with it?

slowing the movement down and boosting hitscan weapons versus projectile weapons

The movement is so marginal in combat and short range movement as to have NO effect. Weapons were not changed - players simply took advantage of something that had been in the game since the start.

Exactly, I dont go off road with a civic, just like I wouldnt implement game on a platform that would brake it just as easily. If I for some reason would do these things, I would have to say that the off road territory broke the car and the new platform broke the game, because they were designed for a different enviroment, and I did not make the necessary adjustments for them to work correctly in this new situation.

Also, the CPMA affects specifically short range movement, which there are a lot more in vq3, as you cant keep the momentum up as easily. Weapons were also affected, contrary to what you are implying.

Exactly, I dont go off road with a civic, just like I wouldnt implement game on a platform that would brake it just as easily.

The platform hasn't broken anything.

If I for some reason would do these things, I would have to say that the off road territory broke the car and the new platform broke the game, because they were designed for a different enviroment, and I did not make the necessary adjustments for them to work correctly in this new situation.

If you take a car that isn't meant to go offroad into territory it isn't supposed to be, it's your fault for driving there. CPMA didn't break anything because OSP still exists. Nobody changed OSP, so you have the option of playing a program with the specific intent of CHANGING something, not breaking it.

Also, the CPMA affects specifically short range movement, which there are a lot more in vq3, as you cant keep the momentum up as easily. Weapons were also affected, contrary to what you are implying.

If you can't keep momentum in CPMA VQ3, it's your issue, not the game. Weapons remain unchanged from their VQ3 values. Net code was improved, which merely brought the issues under a microscope - they were always there.

The platform hasn't broken anything.

it only broke the weapon balance of a perfectly balanced fps game. which is, believe it or not, one of the most important parts of it, if not the most important.

but hey, fuck that, we have mvd demos.

If you continued to read, you would see this:

Weapons remain unchanged from their VQ3 values. Net code was improved, which merely brought the issues under a microscope - they were always there.

1. Weapons remain unchanged from their VQ3 values.

2. Net code was improved

and you dont see the 1 + 2 = fucking up the weapon balance?

and you dont see the 1 + 2 = fucking up the weapon balance?

I see the same balance with a better view of how it plays on a more accurate field. Are you really arguing that it was more balanced when it was imbalanced?

Are you really arguing that it was more balanced when it was imbalanced?

i dont see how i can make this more...simple for you..but here goes:


= > OSP didnt need to be saved.

Get it?

It was *perfectly balanced* for years and years until a certain individual *fixed* it. And after he *fixed* it, the game was broken. So technically, he broke it.

I think its as simple as it gets.

And regarding the +'s that it gave us, MVD isnt really that important. gtv_nextview is a pretty simple command, especially when you bind it.

Btw it gave some new bugs in the game, sound-related, while 95% of us watch winner POV anyway. The netcode is better, but seriously, it would maybe mean something in the times when we all had 56K/ISDN, not today when everyone has a good connection.

= > OSP didnt need to be saved.

Get it?

CPMA wasn't trying to save it. Get it?

It was *perfectly balanced* for years and years until a certain individual *fixed* it. And after he *fixed* it, the game was broken. So technically, he broke it.

I think its as simple as it gets.

OSP remains. A certain individual offered an alternative for those who wanted one. Nothing has changed or been broken in VQ3, but CPMA offers VQ3 with a more accurate foundation.

And regarding the +'s that it gave us, MVD isnt really that important. gtv_nextview is a pretty simple command, especially when you bind it.

Btw it gave some new bugs in the game, sound-related, while 95% of us watch winner POV anyway. The netcode is better, but seriously, it would maybe mean something in the times when we all had 56K/ISDN, not today when everyone has a good connection.

All the more reason that you shouldn't be envious of CPMA's success. Clearly CPMA won out even with "bugs" and unimportant MVD/GTV features. It was the superior mod for the framework, not for the fluff. OSP was only popular for the fluff.

cpma won? what does that mean? noone needed it. only reason why everyone switched to it is because it was picked by cpl for an announced world tour that, of course, never took place. and people mostly play the official tournament mod. at the time, i switched to it too.

So you play a mod simply based on what other people play instead of your own personal preference, despite the fact that you have absolutely no business in any sort of tournament setting? Honestly, who plays a game that they don't like for 1 or even 2 tournaments that you don't play in? If you were waiting for someone to type it out so you could see how dumb it sounds, you're welcome.

Based on your motivation in mod choice, you really have no business complaining about the marginal differences between OSP and CPMA VQ3. You are as responsible for OSP's death as anyone. Instead of playing OSP or working on your own mod, you happily sit around in CPMA and complain about how much better the game was when you could beat someone purely by how expensive your internet connection or computer components were.

lmao everyone plays it, cause its the official mod.

EVERYONE.

who plays a game that they don't like for 1 or even 2 tournaments that you don't play in?

many of us. its fucked, and unbalanced, but its still quake3. why woudn't i play it anymore?

every lan tournament features cpma. go read the "official mod" part again. every NET tournament features cpma. OFFICIAL MOD. im supposed to play osp alone? go don quijote on their asses? sure.

i've no business with the tournament setting? what the fuck does that mean? that i didnt attend any lans? thats a pretty strong argument, cause the number of quake players that *can* attend big lans is around 20 in total, if so. and there are no lans anywhere near me.

99% eu servers have switched to cpma. and your suggestion is that i should make my own mod? i let osp die? you're on some serious drugs. what the hell are you talking about? i have more important things to do than develop a mod in quake 3 ffs. and im not even that good in programming.

you happily sit around in CPMA and complain about how much better the game was when you could beat someone purely by how expensive your internet connection or computer components were.

since 2002 i played on a p3 600, 256MB , GF4MX and had around 80FPS max. then i got a 56K. in those days the netcode could even be an improvement for me.

I got 1MB DSL 2 years ago.

\o/.

oooh the power...

lmao everyone plays it, cause its the official mod.

EVERYONE.

So CPMA is now an official mod? At what point did this change from a hobbyist project to an official distribution of the game? Were you forced to patch to it? Why didn't I get the memo?

many of us. its fucked, and unbalanced, but its still quake3. why woudn't i play it anymore?

If it's still Quake 3, then you don't need to complain about the problems. I didn't say you shouldn't play anymore - I pointed out that you can play OSP. You don't.

every lan tournament features cpma. go read the "official mod" part again. every NET tournament features cpma. OFFICIAL MOD. im supposed to play osp alone? go don quijote on their asses? sure.

Exactly which LAN tournaments and online tournaments are you participating in? Do you not have friends to play OSP with, or do you simply play with randoms? If you're the only one who would play OSP, why haven't you stopped to think that the problem might just be you?

i've no business with the tournament setting? what the fuck does that mean? that i didnt attend any lans? thats a pretty strong argument, cause the number of quake players that *can* attend big lans is around 20 in total, if so. and there are no lans anywhere near me.

/facepalm
You're now saying that you play a mod that is only being used on a tournament level for around 20 people, and only in select locations, with only a few events in any year, and that you won't ever be attending... Yet... you still play despite the fact that you don't like it because... nobody plays OSP?

If that sounds retarded, it's because it is.

99% eu servers have switched to cpma. and your suggestion is that i should make my own mod? i let osp die? you're on some serious drugs. what the hell are you talking about? i have more important things to do than develop a mod in quake 3 ffs. and im not even that good in programming.

If you have enough time to play Q3, you have enough time to make a mod. If you care enough about the balance, you've got motivation. If you don't, then the differences between OSP and CPMA don't concern you. Likely, you probably didn't even notice a difference until someone said it.

if you're involved with the community, play the game and are unhappy about something, why don't you take your issues to the cpma team and explain what you think is bad and what want changes you propose for the gametype (cq3) which is supposed to fix these things?

instead of just whining..

Do you even fucking know how nextview works? And thus how it's completely unsuitable for any more than 2 players?

Ofc he doesn't know. Even a guy as retarded as him wouldn't think connecting 8 gtvs to watch a tdm match would be a good idea.

fuck off irrelevant cpmer

Raged idiot :)

I also like how your post sort of implies that your opinion matters more than mine, you're just as much a nobody as I am.

but you're a kind of nobody that is a part of a certain community/mod that did a non-requested intervention in the other community, so i as a different kind of i-mind-my-own-business-nobody kinda have more arguments to hate you more than you hate me.

and butchering the mod doesn't stop you to talk shit about it, again.

last time i checked, the ospers came to cpma and not the other way round. just go back if it's worse in cpma for everyone? oh wait, it's not.

So is osp 1.04 about 'please add some new minor bugs to make gameplay more competetive and balanced?

i couldnt care less about the new osp right now, cause quake live makes it as unimportant as it gets

I assume you still play Q3 on a 56k modem, like everyone did in the early days? I hope you never play a sweede with a 0 ping.

Haha god, this argument proves you're retarded without a shadow of a doubt. Let me try to put it into terms your primitive brain will understand:

1. My wife's looks remain unchanged

2. My eyesight was improved

tard: Doctor! Somehow you have made my wife look ugly!

Dr: No I haven't silly! Silly cunt! FUCKING IDIOT it's just that now you can see her for the ugly slut she is, also your children suffer from mongface too if you hadn't noticed.

tard: No you fucked it all up, I'll do the only sane thing and put things back to the way they were, I'm gonna go look at the sun for a few hours fuck you.

Dr.: ...but now you can read properly and drive and you won't get headaches from blurred visi--

tard: YEAH STOP RIGHT THERE NERD I THINK I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT STEVIE WONDER SAID HE DOESN'T EVEN LIKE THE ABILITY TO SEE AND HE PLAYS THE PIANO SO WHAT ABOUT THAT FAGGOT

Dr: but there's even another woman waiting for you who's attractive and is willing to change herself if you just treat her with some respect.

tard: AHHH MY EYES HURT THIS IS ALSO YOUR FAULT

haha good one =)

with a comment as good as this i will for once only call you slightly overweight

... thank you...

... I promised myself I wouldn't cry :'')

my god ...

When attempting witty comments use a frame of reference that your audience can relate to. Wife is an unknown cvar.

I couldnt laugh to this. Dunno. Its prolly suited for 80<IQ<85

Perhaps its cause the comparison is wrong.

It should be something like this.

You have a beautiful woman. Really, gorgeous. And then a complete retard of a doctor attaches a dick on her, without anyone wanting him to do so. So the conversation would go:

"Are you fucking insane what have you done?"

"She's prettier this way, cause i like chicks with dicks, and my retarded friends like it, and you should like them too."

"I'm gonna kill you you stupid idiot"

"Why? You just have a taste in inferior women, you're silly. She was supposed to look like this. This is better. Back me up on this one boys!"

(Bunch of retards) "He's right, "

Afterwards, whenever you're out with her, the idiots are, ofcourse, there. With comments like:

"Damn, that girl is ugly. She's so ugly. Damn. Guys, look at this."

God, you're slow.

(Bunch of retards) "He's right, "

That sums the CPMA community.

no.

Good job for responding instead of being completely silent but still; terrible.

for some strange and unknown reason you are convinced that you know how something that you don't even play should look like. that's a first minus in your funny character.

instead of a successful "stfu and go play cpm" you wander here with basically no arguments about "improvements" besides eventually copy pasting the list of "improvements" from the promode site that are worth ...well...nothing in comparison to actually playing the game and knowing the flaws.

you're obviously not aware of the fact that you don't know what you're talking about. and that's good for you, it prolly makes you feel good about yourself, and anything is better than nothing, i guess.

Listen, if Jamerio, AL|EN and Sombra are on your side; you're wrong.

Just admit I fucking destroyed you by being smarter.

A smart person would never use that reasoning.

A smart person wouldn't cheat, get out of my tubes sombra.

that failed one-liner is the best the guy of your size can come up with?

that's pretty...disappointing. sorry.

the only way you CAN destroy me is by sucking up the gravitational field around me.

Desperate + you clearly don't understand what gravity is.

Noone understands gravity better than you.

Its obviously easier to bore me than to do some pushups

Haha god I absolutely destroyed you didn't I.

Fucking christ I'm good. I mean really, read that shit again it's fucking hilarious.

Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night because I'm so fucking smart my brain can't contain itself and has to think of awesome things because I'm so fucking good at everything.

You have no idea how awesome it is to wake up every day and realise I'm me.

On the other hand you're shit and are embarrassing yourself.

if your brain continued to grow together with the rest of you, you might be onto something here.

Does it bother you to wake up knowing you're so inferior and stupid? It would annoy me, why don't you try getting smarter?

Well, when i was writing my qualifying examination for Faculty of Philosophy my IQ was measured 156, but i wont rub that into your face, cause you're already having a hard time without that.

Don't let the pain consume you like you consume cakes, let the rage out, man. You'll feel better. We're all with you.

dftpnkezln: For all of you reporting a score more than 100 as you iq lol @ you. How can you possibly score more than 100%?
dftpnkezln:I'm very happy with my score of 89.

i rest my case.

that guy is a god.

You can have a lot of knowledge and still be dense!

You are living proof!

Just give it up, man.

I'm starting to feel sorry for you.

Yeah you probably should feel sorry for me...

y'know.. IF YOUR REATARTET!

need more examples?

rofl

example of what? cpm vs vq3?

oh i forgot that your esr career started with climbing the asses of players of a mod you never played.

as far as i remember your brain didn't let you play anything above instagib.

uh no, you getting owned. what are you an idiot? (don't answer that)

getting owned?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha


you poor crippled fuck, by what? +s below a post?

idiot

awww, you answered it :)

Beautiful :D

who likes fishsticks?

you horrible horrible person! FISHSTICKS ARE PEOPLE TOO!

fail :(

PETA disagrees.

wat

hi

I'm gonna set you up m8.

I love fishsticks! I actually had some fishsticks today

are you a gay fish?

kanye west do.

Give this man the source code. Wait until he has to deal with the retarded community like cpma devs have put up with for years. Anyone who aims to please everyone is fooling themselves. You have to make hacks, slashes, cuts, and decide for everyone what is best. It won't please everyone, of course not, but you do get a better end product if you yourself know the direction you are going in and are willing to accept ONLY things valuable to that direction. Not the rants of conservative idiots who are unwilling to accept any change even if it IS beneficial to them.

basically you whiners just miss the good old osp days where everyone was shit and had shit to play with, but enjoyed it. don't blame cpma for what could be considered the natural outcome of a questionable gameplay design and advanced player setups and abilities, a fucking dull hitscan fest.

The switch is done modwise, period. A CQ3 crusade seems smarter than the never ending osp-cpma flamewar. Its 2009 ffs.

oh you don't say,
tell that to the idiots who whine endlessly.

In the end this all too late.

When people, hardware, and netcode all get better, flaws are more apparent. This is what happened with cpma!

Instead of nostalgic whine though, cq3 could have been used to improve the game(and yes, I'm sure the developers would have helped fix up cq3 if it were embraced!). VQ3 gametype is vanilla! As in original and things are not changed.

Regardless embracing ql and making it what cq3 should have been is probably the best direction for keeping a living community :)

Analyzerr I think you should use this picture in your recruitment ads for osp :)

Quake 3 community is amazing. Why are there only 2 competition mods for q3, cpma and osp? I just don't understand all the whining from ospers.

Someone should make a new mod called Q3 OMFG with 125fps physics for osp bitches plus all the crap ripped off from cpma. I'd fucking do it if I knew how.

Seriously people there should be at least 5 or more competition mods for this 10 year old game. Quake 3 community is so much bigger compared to qw. I just don't get it :(

// back to ezquake

Not only that but there's hardly anyone doing anything with the source...

how about now that ESWC is dead you go back to osp and stop whining?

I instantly quit when cpmfaggotry took over too. Shit felt bad man.

Just get the retard modhopping friends to come back to OSP and stick to that. Oh and hi swedish internets.

How about you all shut the fuck up and play some DOTA or NHL 09?

More like demigod.

NHL 09 doesn't really exist for the PC.. it's only NHL 06 with different menus and updated rosters, renamed and repackaged as both 07, 08 and 09..

Why play it on the PC? I agree that the PC version sucks since a few years back, but really nobody i know actually plays it on the PC. Everybody plays the console versions, and for good reason, there is a world of difference. But lets face it, when it comes to sports games, the PC hasnt been "in the game" for about 4-5 years.
Anyone that hasnt played NHL for 2 years or so are in for a brave new world if they try NHL 09 (on console).

i could never and still cannot understand the CPMA VQ3 vs OSP war. at the highest level of play, the guys who are winning are still the ones who outplay their opponents instead of outaiming or abusing weapon imbalance. rapha is a great example. while cypher has phenomenal aim, he wins only because he combines it with great tactics, map control and prediction.

sure, online play has "changed". higher accuracies all round. +back rail and +forward LG work very well. lame according to some, but effective. however, OSP on LAN wasn't very different either. rail and LG have always been very powerful weapons in the right hands. agreed, many people abuse this online to win games but on the other hand, all rail no brain never quite worked in OSP and is no different in CPMA when you're up against good players.

OSP was a painful experience with 60 ping and above. not everyone lives in Europe. CPMA netcode lets you hit better at those pings without having to "lead" your shots. i don't see how this is a bad thing. it makes the game more fun for HPBs without screwing LPBs. online games shouldn't be taken seriously anyway.

movement is tighter and slightly harder than OSP but certainly not game breaking. people like cooller and walter fly through maps without breaking a sweat. people have stopped whining about important jumps like bridge to rail being too hard these days. it was just a matter of time before everyone got used to it. the only map it really broke was t2. personally i prefer CPMA VQ3's movement which isn't floaty like OSPs and doesn't suffer from horizontal overbounces. the only thing i dislike about CPMA's "fixed" physics is rocket jumping. i just can't seem to be consistent, no matter how much i practice.

I wont try to start a discussion against CPMA VQ3, play whatever you like. But me (and the people i used to play with) wont play it because it doesnt feel right. It doesnt feel like QUAKE to me. Quake 4 is very different from CPMA VQ3, but i get the same negative feeling when i play it.

Also I hate it that the rails doesnt hit where I aim in CPMA. Even with awesome ping, no packet loss, and no weird timenudge etc. Like 20% or of the shots i do, it the rail slug doesnt hit where i aim and press the button.
I dont care if the netcode is "better" if the shots dont land where i aim. If i aim at a spot, it better damn well HIT that spot too.

rate 250000
cg_optimiseBW 0
cg_nudge 0
cg_xerpClients 0
cg_lagHax 0
cl_maxpackets 63
cl_packetdup 0
cl_timenudge 0
cg_predict 1
cg_predictItems 1
//snaps not in config at all


There is nothing more that you can set. Try it with people who have the same setting as you and similar ping. I really want to see a demo when your rail doesn't hit where you aim - remember that sometimes the point where you hit is not the same where the CLIENT REPRESENTATION OF RG CORE IT IS.

Unless you're on some extremely crap isdn line you really ought to use maxpackets 125.

more like:

rate 25000
cg_optimiseBW 1
cg_nudge 0
cg_xerpClients 0
cg_lagHax 0
cl_maxpackets 125
cl_packetdup 1
cl_timenudge 0
cg_predict 1
cg_predictItems 0
snaps 40

:)

if you turn timenudge/nudge, smoothclients/xerp and laghax off you should be fine.

Sigh... The snaps legend lives on. Wouldn't recommend cg_predictItems 0 unless you have a crap conn. Weaponpickups etc won't be predicted and you'll lose the ability to switch to a weapon instantly after pickup since you have to wait for server confirmation that you actually picked it up. Can easily be reproduced by cg_autoswitch 1 and a high ping server.

rate 25000
cg_optimiseBW 1
cg_nudge 0
cg_xerpClients 0/1 // which ever you like best
cg_lagHax -1
cl_maxpackets 125
cl_packetdup 1 // depending on your amount of packet loss
cl_timenudge 0
cg_predict 1
cg_predictItems 1 // 0 if you get false pickups
//snaps not in config at all, cpma sets it automatically