Both links give me

"Unhandled Exception

An unhandled exception was thrown by the application."

works for me, dunno :(

Works now!

2GamerioD

how is this "Major News: ESR"?

good comments from 2GD, i think hes spot on

2v2 is fun to play, but a really poor mod to spectate. As he says when you look at results/brackets of 2v2 comps the team names mean nothing, you usually have no idea whose playing for who, the teams are generally made up on the spot, just for the comp and there is just no personality or continuity to the whole mode

Thats just not the case in TDM, you can roll off the big names 9,Deathrow,Memento Mori,Unmatched,cK or ic etc.etc... teams that have tons of personality and distinctive team play styles full of big name players(duelers and non-duelers alike) and lots of history

CTF as always is fun to play but it is a complete mess to spectate - Defenders are so boring to watch, attackers a little better but in defensive games you just watch them die over and over its no fun really

DM has its flaws but Quake at the highest level has always been about 1v1 and TDM for me. TDM has very much taken a back seat in the past 7-8years but it would be great to see it back in the spotlight.

ctf would be cool to spect if q3/ql maps weren't so easy to defend but would instead give 10-10 scoring games or so

no reason to force players to name teams. they could just be "fox-toxic", "jibo-cooller" etc. also there should be more continuity if it wasnt just one good tournament every two years. i've not seen or read any of the tdm teams you mentioned doing anything outside of history books (aka the years 1999-2003 or something, back when there were competitions)

true

foxic

coolibo

coollibo

LOL

jibooller also :D

2GD, please reply to this comment so I can plus you.

fuck i love 2gd

I agree with what 2gd said about hyping stuff and I have to admit, eurocup 3 was one of the best things ever in quake 3. But could something like that ever really return? You've got old maps, the same players you've seen play a thousand times, tricks that have been done over and over.

Then those same players of random teams often just CBA to even put some effort into new tactics, because its just all becoming routine, and whoever has the best aimers lined up, or whoever has the best day, wins. (one exception being Yoyotech, they got interesting teamplay going on, but they play CTF).

How exactly "the community" would go about hyping up players, I have no clue. I figure the good old text interview have lost their effect really. Mostly they are utterly boring. I dont even read them anymore to be honest. (Almost a year ago I wasted several hours of my time doing interviews with all the captains of the QL.cz nationscup. Those interviews later turned out to be probably the most ignored piece of text I ever wrote. I think eventually that nationscup wasnt ever even finished).

The bright light in this all for me would be ESL TV. They really manage to fire up the interest in quake again for me, making even boring matches fun to watch. (And yes, even when joe and jay arent just being goofy). The live interviews I've seen so far were also actually quite entertaining. Maybe hype them up through that medium. Like, have strenx discuss 7-7-7 with noctis, in english, or whatever.

Also: in before tl;dr

I'll watch what ever they decide to throw at me.

since competetive tdm has been ruthlessly ignored by the ql developers thus far I'm afraid an full blown tournament could turn out a failure which could turn other major leagues away from tdm in the future. I'm not sure the development of ql tdm is in such a state that a tournament would be as good as it can be, and in such a case I'd rather see something which could work as a gametype.

my personal hope is for a 2on2 tournament or perhaps even team duel.

I dont really know if quake is good enought sport to be watched for times and times. For example i was amazed all the time when i first started to watch ESL-TV, but after some time matches just started to repeat themselves... same maneuvers time after time, it just gets boring by the time and when excitement is gone theres really no point watching matches...

Quake Live is just too rational game which makes it too easy to predict whats going to happen next. I dont know if it is maps or what, but games in any current QL map are easily predictable. Always same shit, it never changes, because theres an absolute best way of doing things...

Would be fun to see what would happen if players health would alter players movement speed... it would make it tons harder to predict whats going to happen..

U always make the same bad comments against QL game or QL players... Just read again ur comments, i think u definetely picked the fucking wrong game m8...

Would be fun to see what would happen if players health would alter players movement speed... it would make it tons harder to predict whats going to happen..

Go CS/COD/BF, u'll enjoy it for sure... And let the quakers play what we love...

Hey, I wrote my answer to fragster with the rule there not allowed to edit, even if they made me sound better or made it easier to read. so im gonna post my whole answer here cus they edited!. sorry its rather long. short summary is TDM rocks, It could be back. maybe i can do a tdm game on the show with interviews per week. I dunno yet, need more time to think! think damnit james.

"Is sticking with 4on4 TDM the right choice for the next EMS season?


OK, I want the whole thing quoted Fragster! I'll know if its not because it wont include this bit! this bit is in!? the bit at the beginning? right? k.. good. Also I hate answering this kind of questions. I'm a non voting non complainer english guy. But I guess I'll answer this. here we go.

Firstly EMS needed to add something quakelive, since IEM have added quakelive 1v1. Now lets look at the options. You could of either add: 1v1/2v2/CA/CTF/TDM

Firstly lets look at if EMS followed suit, You could think like football and say IEM is premiere and EMS is division 1. But thats not even true I think, As the completely seperate. So lets say there are 2 1v1 cups, its pretty simple and would work. But the reason for having two is mainly to cator for the high demand of competitive play from a large player base, Also allow aspiring players a playground to prove their skills in the hopes of joining the professionals. but I dont think this is needed with 1v1 this time round. IEM will have alot of online stages. enough that all aspiring duelers will have a chance to compete to join the IEM. ALso I doubt IEM are sure on the size or success of its first Quakelive event. They may even find they lack duelers, making the EMS 1v1 risky. Since its the first time for a big 1v1 event, I think to let it play out solo within the IEM is the best solution.

2v2: Is amazingly skillfull to play, It mostly draws high tier players from 1v1/4v4, but also some from CTF/TDM, but for this reason I think its bad, if the 1v1 players join the 2v2 EMS, you see too many similar faces. Also the teams in 2v2 dont mean anything really, its not like counterstrike when you can name teams. where fans support the teams! youd still be highlightning indivisuals, ESL already do that with the 1v1. sure it would be different if it was nation based. but thats not EMS thats ENC. Lets see some new faces! no 2v2 yet thanks

CA: For me this gamemode is alot of fun. But competitively it lacks a highly noticable skill gap, Since everyone starts with all guns. this game mode, players play alot closer to each other on a pro level than other team games like TDM/CTF. Sure you can still shine like a superstar at times. and yes it involves alot of team play. but its not that interesting to follow. not as much as the other team games. Also CA has a decent league showing already (cus it is superfun and easy to play). But it doesnt need help atm, it was the first easy fun cups to put on. and since they have started they've done fine. let them continue. EMS need to add something different, add a special to another gamemode.

CTF &TDM : The rest of the article was bullshit, it was designed to make you think im smart, did it work? guess not :( Guess the real article starts here.

Firstly. Lets look at the skills. CTF can involve different skill sets required to be good, TDM is a fraggers game. it involves teamplay sure. but its about fighting! (though I made it sound simple its not!) CTF has an interesting objective, flags. and due to this players can be successfull within CTF showing off different skills than TDM. and thus it has a very different community. And its own place within competitive quake. But CTF is also alittle pickup and go style quakelive similar to CA. Its easier to play CTF for fun than it is TDM. Its probably more fun also at a lower level. But to be successfully in CTF you can bring various different skillsets to the game, Sometimes CTF your required to hit 100 percent ACC, sometimes you need to move well, adapt fast, Its very challenging, But alot of these challenging and skillfull moments come few and far between, Alot of the game despite being skillfull is just mush to watch. One frag in middle or one rail on a incoming attacker means something, but not much. It gets interesting at certain points. less times than TDM in my oppinon. though the times are maybe more exciting because they have build ups. but do you also remember 0-0 with games where flags didnt even leave rooms? there the worst... even TDM 200-10 is... ok maybe as bad, but you will only see that in the first TDM leagues before teams get stable. Ok good word, stable. CTF is stable. there are alot of top teams out there. and there rdy to jump into EMS and fight again and again. but I think we need to change the tv station. CTF is running nicely else where. TDM honestly isnt. and wel here are my final thoughts.

CTF is working. ESL can add it and it will continue to work, but Personally. Quake TDM was the best. it was so awesome in barrysworld and Clanbase eurocup. but where did it all go? well I'll tell you, TDM lost its presteige, so it lost its players. why didnt CTF? well CTF didnt need its presteige as much. I think it had a more casual fun factor to it. TDM was gritty hard core quake. it was fucking brilliant at the high level. and yes it pretty much died. So in my oppinon EMS are taking a risk on TDM but the right decission. why right? Well TDM needs to be stable and right now its not, thats why its so fucking risky. players are everywhere right now, no real teams even exsist. Think how many teams have asked fox to play with them. Think how many top tdmers cant pick teams or wont return to tdm just skipping it completely. noone knows whats going on. and EMS adding TDM could help the scene. but will it, No. Not without help from the community. Because if EMS ran, Ran in the background like another league, noone would care. the winners wouldnt even feel like winners, cus it would of meant almost nothing.

So, How do we save tdm, put it back on the map. Ok, sure an obvious solution or what I would do if was a billionare is to have an American and European league, put on a lan finals, fly out the players, and put up a fuck load of prize money. But... this isnt dooable yet. Can we wait for it, nope. it wont happen, especially if EMS and Eurocup tdm is zzz. We need to build it up here first. where it started, online. the TDM story stopped along time ago. We need to bring it back. So this is my plan.

Lets talk about it...(wait theres more...I'm about to get all fired up! stay with me!) Lets write articles on the teams signed up in EMS, decuss the players, Care who is playing and for what team. before, when tek9 lost blue it was a big deal, people talked about replacement players, how the team would bond, adding new styles to an already working team, this could fuck up the chemistry, maybe the team got stronger? who knew. but we used to talk about it all. People talked about this similar to the CS community are getting hard over players transfering. But we need to be told about these teams. Journalist have to write about every team playing, analysis them, talk about who could beat fnatic. Help build stars, we need article about tdm on esr/fragster. We need me doing a 5 minute segment on tdm during the KOTH shows. We need to hype up fnatics tdm team (even though there also imo unstable), make them look like fucking gods, analysis them, explain why there going to be so good, talk and talk about them, shuve em in peoples faces. take a step back and say... who will beat these cunts. then you may inspire some teams from the hype tdm is getting to join, players will maybe come together for the challenge. but we need these teams soon, we need the articles, we need to talk about it, and if we do, If we make it special, everyone, the fans, players, journalists and well..everyone. TDM will again be special. It may not feel like Eurocup in its prime to begin with. But its a step in the right direction, But CTF/CA/1v1 dont need your help, there working. TDM needs the community. with a little care and attention I will be back. really it could be.

So yes its the right decission, If we help it. I know I will, will you?


P.S im so dyslexic it hurts, infact to even spell dyslexic is rather painful, why would the fuckers diagnose a sucky spelling/writing/english condition. then give it a fucking hard name to spell. fuckers. So I'm actually like super smart n shit, but it may not come accross in this article, and I dont have time to make it read coheirient.....good. cus I only had 30 minutes to write this, and now im done! back to other projects of equal awesomeness! Peace out ppl. Hope you agree with me somewhere. (ps this also has to be in the article, no editing out fragster... or ill find you)

Hugs and kisses!

James 2GD Harding"

imo, tdm will work (as spectator friendly) for the non-tdm players is if we had someone who shoutcast's like you shoutcast duel.

No offence to tosspot, redeye, djWheat and the rest, but i when i watch them shoutcast they generally just say "fox fragged blue" or something like that.
Who ever shoutcast's it needs to do it like you do the duel where they say something like "ok so fnatic are having 2 guys ra and 1 rail and 1 ya" and how this will effect the game, rather than just say what is on the screen and who's fragging who

Otherwise it may as well be just a DM tournament for the spectators to watch, as it will look like a frag fest rather than really seeing what is happening in the background

Personally i enjoy watch CTF (although maps are pretty defensive) although watching on qltv can be annoying when they follow the defender for a few mins

definately agree, i was watching tv.holysh1t.net stream the other night and the commentators were so clueless :/ commentators in quake do not need to hype the action on screen but draw out the depth behind WHY people do the things on the screen and what's happening in general

actually i suck at duel compared to tdm. so I could cast tdm alot better especially from tactics.

anways a headsup, Were going to move the quakeshow to Wednesday in the future, 10-12pm. On this show we will cover....

1v1 koth
2v2 koth
IEM 1v1 cups
TDM EMS.

thats alot right? well this is how it works, IEM will take priority when we have content to show. TDM games will come second, the koth's may just be 1 game winner stays on as a bonus, so a 1v1 bo3, a 2v2 bo1 or summin. rather than the current format.

So if your playing in the EMS tdm , you may be asked to play our game on the show. you will also need todo phone interviews, so have a spokesmen ready.

this should be the current plan, but everything can change.

<3 sounds great, NA could do with someone who does as much work for the game as you do.

maybe to see what the viewing numbers are like, do one week with a CTF and one week with a TDM match, and see what the spectator numbers look like
if you see ctf has a massive amount more spectators then maybe a good indicator into what spectators want (and not just what people on ESR want)

But i have to say, although i enjoy watching ctf i haven't seen any tdm games so far (except the usa vs canada match), so maybe once i see a good shoutcaster for it i will enjoy watching tdm more (and may make me play it as well)

but i have to say i get really bored with anything dm6 related (everyone callvotes this on all quake live servers so playing and watching it all the time is annoying)

Is there a chance of doing the show twice a week?
I WANT MOAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

sounds nice, but do two shows ;)

[+] whore ! but u diserve it :) Thx

I so totally agree with you!

We need LANs and EPIC. Quake Live diserves to be on top of esport platforms with other games like CounterStrike and StarCraft.

Let's bring back old times when Q3 > CS! This movie shows what we need and what James is talking about:

ClanBase Eurocup 3 (2001)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3DVOwvuuZY (part1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZOV5Qj0EDU (part2)

btw. when I was young I could watch that movie everyday, it was one of my dreams to be part of such community, so I'm in!

odb productions ftw!

just had a look through their old movies, such gems!

that video is the best example that the commentator was boring when it came to an overtime on dm7 :D

www.students.tut.fi/~kylanpaj/ClanBaseEurocup3_Q3_CS_divx.avi
the whole thing

CTF > TDM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIcvMUE6Hv8

awww nostalgia... i was there to admin the event :]

im sorry that we had to cut off a bit, hope you understand <3

I hope you didnt cut noctis comment ;)

=D

they edited out "1111oneoneone" !




!

Nice point of view 2GD, im totally agree...

So, you can start making another ESL-TV Show but with TDM :D

I strongly agree with the last part about the hype. Its important to create some ambitions for new players. If they idolize the top players and aspire to become as good, it creates activity and heightens competition. Hype is good. It give prestige and motivates players to participate in tournaments.

.

We need to hype up fnatics tdm team (even though there also imo unstable), make them look like fucking gods, analysis them, explain why there going to be so good, talk and talk about them, shuve em in peoples faces. take a step back and say... who will beat these cunts.

hillarious part :D
thanks for bringing tdm "back"

Guys, stick with what you have, and that's the just surfacing duel scene. Let them play 2on2 or just add another duel division.
TDM is nowhere near being promoted.
CTF is interesting only at top level.

Support the growth of Quake Live by sticking with one formula for some more time please!

NO 2v2

2gd hit the main point that it consists of random teams built on the spot, we need teams like dignitas, 4kings, fnatic, sk, bla bla bla with 4v4 ctf/tdm teams :)

As pretty much a person who appreciates watching Quake, but hasn't really played it to an extent where I could be called anything but an interested onlooker, I'd personally prefer 2v2 to TDM. With 2v2, you get to see these fantastic duellers working together in tandem, whereas TDM (superficially, at least) seems to be lacking an objective, and far too chaotic for me to really understand what is going on.

In all honesty, I’d prefer CTF to both, but that’s only my opinion.

2GD convinced me, I hope ESL sticks with TDM.

2gd's "with a little care and attention I will be back. really it could be." quote should be enough !

CTF > TDM GG

I don't think TDM/CTF communities will ever be revived to their former status/countless prize tournaments. 1v1 is the only real chance quake has left...No matter how badly many of us would prefer TDM =)

Get the ppl from fragster to start writing on esr where quake related stuff is a lot more welcome than on fragster where pretty much no one gives a shit about it apart from maybe 5 ppl and the rest is just trying to get coins for posting comments which they can use to win free stuff with. (most retarded way ever to get comments...)

isn't it pretty fine as it is now? with the main news on fragster and the links here on esr?

Not everyone is german.

thats why we release most of our work in english aswell

yet

scaring me

better scaring than scarring, no?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40

lol

Learn english it's not a hard language.

Learn English it's a soft language.

You lost me

opposite of hard = soft ;P

also I think in this case specific you have to add something like "to learn" or "to speak".
but it might just be my grammar nazi sense overreacting :P

grammar nazi

:D

If we only ever link to content on other pages, ppl will go to those pages, if other pages link to esr, ppl will come to esr. :\

i get it, you spoke of to unite sites, all working on one site only to bundle the force. thats cool but that will not happened.

its the same with modifications for games, why are their 3 mods out that do the same - from the players sight. the logic is to join forces in only one mod.

every site/project has different goals. if people write for sites they have a reason, most writers here have solo projects where there feel free and a little scene to write for. maybe a few wrote for little money here and there. the best output was published on esr.

its easy to say "hey wanna join esr" but if ppl want to, why arn`t they already joined esr.

if esr wanna collect more good writers, get bigger, be more attractiv, doin this more seriously, i think we must change the whole esr structure, more advertising/money involved/more hierarchic structure. i shiver on writing this down and i dont prefer this way.

it was not a reply to you, more of a brainstorm, if i have one :)

For me as someone who writes news about Quake there are several reasons to not write on esreality and why I think it would be a bad idea if writers from other sites went here and started writing stuff.

To start with Esreality is only Quake, if you do not enjoy quake you do not visit esreality, so if the people who currently write about Quake would start putting all their work here it would only reach quake players, stopping all potential growth for the games.

I also think esreality works a lot better as a community site, with players and profiles like 2GD coming here to discuss different things in the world of quake. It also feels like the site is made for players and other not so strong or at least not regular writers to put up their work. But if we want to grow the community we have to have all these writers on different sites such as SK-gaming and fragster while letting esreality do what it does best, work as a central hub for the community.

Very true.

picking TDM over CTF is just retarded
and reading "pro players" saying that TDM > CTF it's even more retarded
If you like TDM fine, but don't talk bullshit.
The onlyLAN TOURNAMENT WITH CTF WITH PRICES is Qcon, don't talk like there are 100000000 ctf lan tournaments.
TDM: random ffa

And btw 2v2 is a really good choice but again CTF > TDM (4VS4)

They could start adding some tdm maps...

cpm4/ospdm5/6 PLOX!

CTF and 1v1 are what Quake has going for it right now.

TDM is fun to play, but pretty much incomprehensible from the point of view of people who haven't played TDM. Even spectators from other FPS games. They basically just see the individual skill of whoever they're spectating. There's not much overarching structure to the game that's obvious without significant experience. One team has RA (most spectators will never know who without an announcer), one team has more frags, somebody has 65% rail, that's about it.

There is also basically zero activity in TDM at either the pub, pickup, or competitive levels. I have no objection to a TDM league, but as the face of QL, there's no reason it should be picked over CTF.

CTF basically has just three or four good competitive maps (qzctf2, 7, 8 and 10), and (initially due to a lack of private/custom servers) no organized pickup community in the US. Despite this it's still fairly active. There are pub servers 24/7, and almost anyone can jump in, have fun, and try it out. That's not possible with TDM. Even with no organized pickup community there are still a decent number of teams, and there have consistently been leagues.

CTF is what has been working in QL. It allows for a variety of successful strategies, requires teammates have different skillsets, and at the highest levels requires tons of organization and micromanagement between teammates.

Most importantly, people play CTF, therefore it's growth should be encouraged.


My best suggestions are more CTF leagues, a few more maps (larger, open, but with railing mitigated and plenty of options for offense... perhaps like qzctf10), and pickup functionality built into QL (for instance starting a "pickup" server adds a clickable "ctf pickup server" bar underneath the "duel detective" button on the QL homepages of your friends).

just because the US has a shitty community doesnt mean we dont have an active tdm scene in the EU

This is the worst definition of TDM I have ever seen, seems to me like you have no idea what you are talking about.

[+] agree

the think is that most ppl don't have as well

He didn't define TDM, he just said it sucks from a spectator's point of view if you're unfamiliar with quake.

Edit: I think he meant for those unfamiliar with TDM, even if he didn't state it outright.

I need moar coffee. :<

I think, if the commentary is insightful enough, watching TDM could be more interesting than CTF even for unexperienced players.

Well we're not talking about the US scene, you guys have never had any good TDM teams. There's room for some nice TMD Europe however, that doesn't mean CTF will get the boot, both can have there share of the pie.

I'll admit my ignorance regarding TDM, but I thought cK and [519] were considered top-notch TDM teams?

US once had some of the best TDM teams in the world, going as far back as Deathrow during Quake 1.

Not really, if you watch the EU scene demos vs USA in Q3 you'll see the difference.

2v2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think loads of people don't realize how awesome that mod is, to play and spec, because there are alot of new players in QL.

moar CTF...
i dont think we gonna get same number of skilled team with TDM than CTF, and for spectator CTF is great than TDM, but if you only ask to TDM player....


Germany Benjamin 'calipt' Jakob (Quake-Player from YoYoTech) <<< ctf/tdm
China Zhibo 'Jibo' Fan (Quake-Player for Razer)
Belgium Romain 'Dem0n' Leclercq (Quake-Player from LowLandLions) <<< ctf/tdm
United Kingdom James '2GD' Harding (ESL-TV Host and Ex-Quake Player)
Germany Peter 'cYmoZz' Sellmaier (Quake-Player from hoorai)
Sweden Karl 'karl1' Danielsson (excello Quake Manager and Player)
Germany Marcel 'doz3r' von Thomsen (TDM-Player for Team Germany)
Austria Richard 'noctis' Gansterer (Quake-Player)

only 2 ctf player....

crv, the skill is at tdm ! if they give better maps and fix the NETCODE!!!!

it's not a skill prob but a spectable mod, tbh i prefer CTF but TDM is ok too :p


YOU KNOW IT

qlctf is booring= ), not enough maps. vq3tdm FTW!!, and ospctf with 0ping and more than 5playable maps =)

except we're talking about ql, every mode is lacking of maps, it's not just ctf.

true

As I see it, the way gamebrowsing and game/teamjoining is made in QL. Only works well to find duels or ffa matches.

I haven't been playing that much quakelive, but last day my mate and I tried to find a 2v2 match. We found out it's pretty much impossible to play that since people can leave and join as muhc as they wan't.
Can imagine the same true for TDM/CTF, people leaving and joining all the time like a public.

Makes it hard to get trough teammatches with your a clan, greatly contributing to people not playing much fixed TDM atm.
I guess a simply thing as implementing lock teams in QL, could go a long way with bringing people back to TDM.

on private server you can lock team and timeout

yes so i've heard, but thoose are not easily obtained by normal people just yet.

Hope ID changes something this week... Something really important... Something at least to show community that they are starting care about TDM...

Give us the possibility to play good TDM @ publics (When match starts automatically lock teams or something like that) and of course, give us at least one playable map... (no DM20 is not a playable map)

rumor has it theres a huge update tomorrow. to try to compete with cod5 there releasing some mappack that apparently will take quake to the next level.

That would be awesome if its not just a rumour :)

mappack will be awesome, but i dunno why but i got some doubt...

huge update? that would mean ql became cpma + cpma mappack
I highly doubt it

I don't doubt an update, but this 'map pack' thing sounds unlikely. It would be awesome, but when you say 'compete with cod5', you lose a bit of merit.

To me quake will always be = TDM. The other modes are just distractions from the righteous path. Would be cool if id made a working TDM in QL though, then I might even find some time to play it.

TDM is horrendous to watch, it's so hectic. To unexperienced players it looks like FFA.

CTF is far easier to follow, the maps are symetrical, Red team defends the red side of the map while trying to steal Blue team's flag and vice versa.

I really think the people supporting TDM are experienced Quake players defending it for selfish reasons. They want a league to play in.

I'm new to Quake and I'm shit.

To unexperienced players it looks like FFA.

It all depends on the commentary. One thing is if you simply watch demos, and completely another is if you watch commentated stream where everything is explained.

You can't even imagine, just 4-5months ago, watching france(link1n + appleseed + mitch + unity + slx + crv + strenx) vs (cooller + jibo + k1llmas + 3ulu4 + spg + evil)

Demo + screens from the finals of vq3tdm nations:
http://quakequickcup.com/?page=nations_match54

So before some newbie or a benelux osp player whos played the mod for 10years saying CTF FTW without realizing why TDM IS THE SUPERIOUR MOD!

And the nations cup the year prior when swedens players actually showed up was even better. Especially when they came back from 2-0 against UK. Was a great cup to follow, really GJ by Legie and co.

Ye still to this day I blame zyv for sweden's loss for the 2nd time vs Russia. But the loss in ospdm5 was disturbing when they had to restart :)

Ye, that cup did fail pretty much compared to the prior one.

PURRI not showing up and pro playing drunk probably didnt help against russia either ;)

.

new shiny ems logo i see