HAVE

Bo5 doesn't address the problems TL10 frequently face, which have to do with the matches themselves not the format:
-games being over in 5-6 minutes with the leading player using the remaining time solely to survive 2 more minutes with boring defensive tactics
-chances for a comeback greatly limited and more luck based as risk taking chances resulting in your death are limited to one or two opportunites before sealing the game completely

perhaps TL12 can be a compromise, I don't know.

and the haggling begins.


TL14.5 I have a family to feed!!!

Why not TL5 BO10?

Time limit does not scale, so this is stupid to argue to begin with.

it's Gillz

why not?

I want to see a 7 map mappool... there are enough maps in QL at the moment. But yeah tl10 bo5 is they way forward. Maybe bo3 for first round of double elim tourneys/group stages.

No. I don't want to see many maps, I want to see good games.

Timelimit 15 - Best of 3 = 45 minutes

tried and tested. we've had amazing games over the years which went down to the last minute. apart from the z4muz stermy dm6 match, i haven't seen anything like that in QL so far. you can clearly see the players giving up halfway through the game.

Yes, comparing Quakecon/Dubai/DH to last years q3 ESWC tour, we saw way more interesting matches at the ESWC tour (and don't get fooled by shoutcasters trying to make onesided games look interesting).
As far as "spectator friendly" goes, I can't help it, watching 10 min., even on the better matches, isn't half as exciting as 15 (but may be partly personal preference, i admit).

every tournament ever in the history of q3/ql has had atleast one comeback dm6 game :p

there have been plenty of comebacks and close to last second games in ql (but i still see what a longer tl offers)

i'll admit i haven't been following every game that goes on in QL but i really feel TL 15 makes for closer games.

Does TL 20 make for even closer games?

It might. Impossible to say before extensive testing. It surely is better for team modes, but I personally suspect that the mental pressure from high level dueling is too much for 20. Better to go with what is known and tested at this point, than to swing blindly in the dark, like they did with the 10 minute limit, and that means going back to 15.

never seen one.

just imagine the epic closeness of TL 60 :]

With 10 minute overtimes!

too short, people should be able to make a comeback during overtime!

I actually like TL 10

TL15 is so zz to play... needs TL10, air control, no timer, CPM MH.. and cpm22

agree

also we need the return of silenoz :o)

disagree

stealing the name of a musician or band is so zzzz

lol :)

<:

(:

Glad hes just the only one *wink*

yes, timelimit 10 fits CPM perfectly, but us slower vq3/QL players need 15:)

also with pictures of nude gay people on the walls?

seriously...

bo5 with 10 tl? What this change will give you? 2 onesided maps more? Like a Leopold said "I don't want to see many maps, I want to see good games." so do I. Anyway, it's interesting why you defend tl 10 so much? 5 minutes more will bring us some kind of apocalypse? And yes, tl 15 is tried and tested in q3, why not to provide it into ql?

you do realize that you don't have to go the whole distance?

Time is relative. The maps are too big, the physics are too slow, the armors don't offer enough protection. You won't see comebacks as long as you embrace this hide and seek gameplay that you like to think is tactics.

TL15 with bo3 always has been and always will be superior to TL10 with bo5. 15-minute games are the better judge of the winner of each map, and despite the argument that bo5 allows the players to potentially play the entire maplist, I think my point is enough that TL15/bo3 is the better judge of the winner of the game.

Anyone wanna pull out the map stats from any bo3 portion of any recent tournament, or any earlier bo3 tourneys for reference? I know they're sitting around somewhere...

10mins small maps
15mins bigger maps

So, i see that you still want scores 2 - 1 on qzdm13, cause nobody wants to risk?

Wouldn't it be the other way around? 10 minute games on a map like hub would be brutal.

No.

I don't believe I'm the only one seeing something wrong with a game where you have to run around for 2 minutes just to stand a fighting chance if you're out of control, making tl10 a problem in the first place.

But aside from that and given the gameplay, tl10 seems a bit short, though i wouldn't prefer tl15. People might remember only the comeback games, but the majority of games still had that 8 minute of circling in the middle till the down player was forced to act. All that happens now is that the down player is forced to act a bit sooner. That being said, I'd prefer bo5 with a 12 minute timelimit.

sure, with TL 10, the trailing player has to act sooner but it's almost like he only gets one chance to get back into the game. TL 15 gives him more opportunities and for the guy in the lead, it makes the win seem all the more convincing.

What is wrong with the game then?

It's part of the tactical aspect of this game. Its by no means unique feature for a very good competitive game. RTS games like starcraft have a lot of those moments when one of the players is down on resources, and is avoiding confrontation while trying to out-smart the opponent in order to gain better odds for the next fight. Same goes for chess. Would starcraft be better if they would force a timelimit, that would lead to lot of the matches being decided by the first fight? They could even play more maps then!

As a spectator i think TL10 and bo3 works just fine.
The finals should be b05.

I would really enjoy best of 5. really shows how adverse a player is on the maps and which player is most rounded.

TL10 - Having 15 can drag too long sometimes (imo)
BO3 or BO5 depends on the tournament format. I really like BO5 because it tests the players in more maps, and you get more significant events than BO3 (like first battles and final minute). BO3 can be useful at early stages and to make the tourney play faster. Final stages should be BO5.

Another great idea is to include a "GG" or "Give up" button like RTS games, to cut short boring/one sided matches. There is no point in playing when the losing player has given up. Also the underdog can keep trying to comeback if he so wishes.

Hmm, in ql/q3 it doesen't realy matter because if you get like 2 frags on ztn and one lucky spawn-frag (we all know the method on ztn), you can simply concentrate on itemtiming and spamming so your opponent in the worst case for him must work with only one YA, and you can hold this tactic for the entire 8 or even 13 minutes so TL10 or TL15 doesent matter. It's a little bit different on t9 where you always spawn near good weapons and items. But on maps like dm6/ztn/(dm13) it's totaly wayne if you have TL10 or TL15.

It's (was) a totaly different thing in Painkiller because you could hit one lucky Steak-shot afther beeng killed and could turn the complete game (you get killed then you kill your opponent with the 200dmg Steak and you get +15HP +XArmor and a full RocketLauncher) so there TL15 was a must. Same in Q4.

In Warsow it's the complete opposite, you can come back without luck simply getting the mega and 1 YA, but its difficult so the matches are played TL10.

It in my oppinion depends on Game-Engine and Map. So for QL it's in my oppinion totally unimportaint.

To the Bo? question:

It's simply too long if even the first stages of a tourney are played B05.

Example:

64 player tournament (like Zotac or GData are)

So it is 64/2=32/2=16/2=8/2=4/2=2

6 Rounds till you have a champion

And 10min x 5 maps=50min per Round

So we get 6 Rounds x 50 minutes=300 minutes, that's 5 hours of pure gametime!!! (if you think that there is time needet for all players coming on irc, seedings beeng made, gird beeng generated, opponents finding each other you will get something like 8-9 hours in total)

So the Zotac cup must start at 12 am if it sould finish at 9 pm.

It's even worse with Duble-Elim toureys so i wont even calculate the time for such a tourney.

Bo3 is best till semi-finals and till LB-semi but for semi-finals and LB-semi/final its Bo5. For Consolation and Grand final it's two sets of Bo3.

So with this constelation its:

4x(10x3)+1x(10x5)+1x(10x9)=260= About 4 hours 20 minutes (plus the organisation time we have about 6-7 hours)

Much shorter and still entertaining.


ProoF?!

You should consider renaming to "AgreE?!"

tl 10 for every gametype. Matches longer than that make me go zzz.

And dont whine about comeback, if you cant get back within 10 minutes you were too far off to win anyway.