"Alltimes we try to find reasons."

cooller alltime best

<3

I won’t say anything bad about ESWC, WSVG and CPL despite i didn’t get some prizes.

[+]

respect > money

wrong, it has nothing to do with respect. He isn't allowed to say bad things about them nor complain about the payment, and if he do they can sue him or some shit. Some dudes talked to fatal1ty about it in a documentary named Frag, if i remember correctly.

haha, how exactly are those US entities going to sue a guy living in Russia?

i have no idea

Really good interview! Cooller seems to have matured a lot and i can't wait to see him in action

...in the bathtub.

what happened here?

good job Dird, liked that interview!

yeah, good interview ;)

What about the 10 minute map, are you a fan of it?

"Sometimes I like it sometimes I don’t. Actually I think 10 minutes is not enough. It makes a beginning of match very important. But on some maps u can spawn at bad place and all main items aren’t yours."

True.

I have a plan for top6.

hah, nobody wouldn't expect that kind of number. Truly one of a kind

top 6 are qualifying for the world championship finals

ahh in this case :) misunderstood him.

Nice itw.

cooller wins even when he loses

interview with cooller = esr fucked up

.

you also had an unclosed B tag in the top snippet which made the whole ESR look bold for a second there =P

.

Nice interview, and judge is right :]

fuck me.. u owned ESR too Cooller?!

Even Chuck Norris is afraid of Cooller.

;)

<3

cooller, I'm your biggest fan!!

Seriously what a newb this cooller guy is. Everyone knows that CPMA didn't change the dynamics of VQ3 duel. Who the fuck does this guy think he is?

Also he says railgun is his weakness but he'd win on pt4? Clearly this guy knows nothing about how to play q3 or ql as EVERYONE KNOWS that pt4 is a newb rail whore map. Seriously where do you find these people...

hehe nice jokes dude

in Sowjet Russia people find you...

Worst troll attempt ever.

then dont feed him!

he's not trolling, he's laughing at all the retards who claimed that CPMA didn't change the game. he is also laughing at the retards who likewise claim that tourney4 is all rail, when all the top players know that it's not.

Let us argue with gillz. The man who told noctis that he knows more of the spawn system in QL. This will end well.

watch out, he might try to insult you by calling you a cunt face!

How did he know? WHY WOULD YOU TELL HIM THAT WAS OUR SECRET. Sigh. We're no longer friends becks.

He already found out about mine :(
Someone else must have betrayed us.

haaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha. Oh man gillz rage is priceless. I didn't even have to read anything else to know that he's probably still redfaced over the incident. God that's great.

Nobody claimed that, everyone just realised that all the artificial handicaps in the world can't mask the fact that VQ3 is horribly flawed.

People like you wanted arqon to tweak VQ3 to make it more "OSP-like" not realising that nobody could fucking agree on what you actually wanted changing. The LG was powerful because the netcode isn't a pile of shit in CPMA, so what do you do about that? tweak it? How? How is arqon supposed to decide how to tweak a game for the better that he doesn't even like? There already was a tweaked game for him; it's called CPMA.

I'm pretty sure he even said himself on ESR that if somebody with a bit of authority like a gaming organisation suggested some changes then he'd go for it, maybe if the whining retards put half as much energy into getting organised and coming up with some solutions that didn't involve technically crippling the game than they did complaining about CPMA it might've been a different story.

Not that any of this matters now that QL exists.

There's so much wrong with this post that I don't even know where to begin. Let me just say this. The only reason people play CPMA and not OSP is because of a now dead organization pushing CPMA onto the OSP players. It is not because CPMA is better in any way.

On the other front, Arqon never had any intention of leaving OSP how it was (i.e., superior in every way), period. He's an arrogant ass who whines and calls everyone else stupid without substantiating his arguments, and then does what he wants. You can claim (completely wrongly) that VQ3 is fundamentally flawed, but the fact is you have no real argument, so that's where your argument ends, which is fine.

P.S. To give you an idea of arqon's retarded gameplay ideas, he decided it would be a good idea to change pickup ammo for RL to be 5. That was great. He's a gameplay GENIUS. It's not like he stole all his semi good ideas from another game or anything...

Just so we're clear for the people who are reading this, by "superior in every way" he means the netcode had 50ms of inbuilt lag so your shots hit slightly behind where you were aiming and the physics were based on your FPS and were full of rounding errors so if you fall from certain heights you'd either bounce off the ground or accelerate forward.

Nice rage fuelled post though hoens.

Also what you meant to say is he TRIED setting the RL ammo to 5, realised it didn't work and then changed it back, plus I'm pretty sure it wasn't his idea anyway.

Thanks for bringing nothing to the argument for your side. Once again the CPMA defenders have no argument, next?

In case that was too subtle for you Liam, you have yet to give me a reason for why those things are bad for gameplay. If you say "because they're not intended consequences of the game!" then you better be ready to defend strafe jumping, rocket jumping, etc etc etc.

Not to mention that arqon actively tried to "fix" the OSP spawn system but was so vehemently raged at for ruining the game even more that he was forced to acquiesce and change it back. But go ahead, prove to me the changes made in CPMA did NOT negatively affect the game. Go on.

baseq3 spawn system was the cpma vq3 spawn system, osp is bugged and he reintroduced it when it was pointed out.

Rocket Jumping was the unintended result of functioning code, overbounces/fps-based-physics were the result of code not doing what it's supposed to do.

CPMA > OSP as a platform
OSP > CPMA VQ3 in terms of how it actually played

For the majority the slightly worse game was a sacrifice worth making for the better platform (see q3 vs q4 for comparison or the q3 ctf community who stuck with osp because the game was drastically worse).

So rjing was the unintended result of functioning code too? Golly gee thanks for pointing that out!

In other words: The only reason you claim one to be "functioning" and one to be "broken" is because of your bias. In both cases the code is "functioning" exactly as it was written. This is not an excuse for changing it, and is why everyone rightfully claims it was changed for no reason.

Rocket jumps are the result of fully functioning rocket damage and knock back code that had the unintended effect of allowing people to self damage to gain extra height and speed.

FPS dependancy and Overbounces are the result of broken and bugged code (Or are you saying that id coded in an FPS dependency?).

The reason why it was changed was it allowed further enhancements in other code which required that there were no errors or inconsistencies with the movement code (I'd imagine this is key when trying to improve prediction).

That's besides the fact that it's utterly retarded that I should need to run the game at 125fps in order to have the "perfect" Q3 experience (Hey, guess what OSP changes the physics too!). If I have an LCD then I might want it to sync up with the monitors resolution and refresh rate.

What if I'm on a shit pc but the monitor wants 400000000x500000000 or something ridiculous, can you guarentee I'll get 125fps? No.

I don't think you know how code works... The code works exactly as it was written in both cases. Both created side effects. You're arbitrarily giving credence to two (strafe jumping + rocket jumping), while stating two others are bad (FPS dependent physics + overbounce). Your rationale is "THE CODE IS BROKEN!!!", but really it's not. Accept the fact that you value some bugs over others (as does everyone), but don't use that as an excuse to "fix" the game. Carmac tried to "fix" strafe jumping. Is that a good idea too because the same rationale you use for overounce + fps dependent physics would work there.

The rest of your post is just hypothetical whine that is really irrelevant to this discussion.

Yeah, no such thing as bugs. Rocket Jumping is so far away from a bug it's insane.

Notice how I'm not mentioning Strafe Jump as I have no idea if it was intended in the Q3 code (Though I suspect it was, since Carmack did remove/edit it over the course of the tests).

The rest of the post isn't hypothetical whine, it's stuff you can't argue against.

You're not mentioning strafe jumping because the second you do your argument falls apart. Carmack HATED strafe jumping, and wanted to remove it from Q3 altogether. Luckily he saw that hindering game play at the sake of making the code base "cleaner" is not a good idea, unlike some other developers.

If you really want me to argue this then fine. Q3 is a 10 year old game, and if you can't get 125 fps in it at this point, your really shit ot of luck. Do you go whining to Crisis or whatever flavor of the month eye candy game is out there that you can't play it because your computer isn't good enough to play on even low settings while getting more than 2 FPS? No. It's not the game's fault. Either buy a new computer, or shut up, your argument is retarded.

You're assuming I think strafe jump is some sort of super untouchable game mechanic. He didn't try to fix the code for strafe jumping, he tried to remove it, then restrict it, then allowed it to stay and later when id did try and fix it they failed totally (but they did try).

Yeah, I guess we should accept that some people will have a terrible experience playing the game with tearing or FPS problems because they play on certain types of hardware/software, I don't want to play against other people anyway, people are cunts.

I actually prefer the FPS fixed physics in both CPMA VQ3 and QL over the floaty imprecise and down right easy BaseQ3/OSP physics.

Contrary to popular belief this change basically had no real affect on the game, it was all the ability to hit insanely high hit scan percentages as a result of the netcode that "broke" VQ3.

p.s. OSP is just as at fault as CPMA with regards to physics.

That's what the developers of the flavor of the month game do. Not sure why a 10 year old game can't require 125 FPS. It's quite difficult to find a PC that can't run q3 at 125 fps... So really you're just arguing here to argue. You have no point.

That's a terrible argument, it's always worth maximising the accessibility of a game, especially when it's old and niche but requiring more people to play it in order to survive.

The slight change in the physics was more than worth the change as proven by the fact the mass majority of the community switched (Allowing players from further afar to enjoy the game).

The impact on the game caused by the physics change was minuscule and blown out of proportion by CTF players who were actually noticing, finally, that the MG with 7 damage and cripple destroyed the game.

Plenty of monitors out there have native resolutions that are pretty high and require Xhz (usually 60 or 75hz), on these monitors playing at the native resolution and 60/75hz can cause image tearing at higher FPS values.

This is clearly a problem and will cause some people to be unable to play the game (Laptops, people who can't get a hold of CRT monitors or can't afford the brand new 120hz monitors).

I can achieve much more than 125fps, why can't I play on 333 (because OSP decided it was bad...), or 500 FPS if I have the hardware?

What if I don't have the hardware and live in some poor, undeveloped country, what's the point in restricting the ability for these players to have an optimal experience?

Why should a 10 year old game require 125fps (no more, no less) to play?

Sigh. This is pointless, like talking to a brick wall. you're being willfully obtuse because it suits you. This argument of "you need 125 fps and that's stupid lolol" is a non-starter. It's just what the game requires to be played. Period. You saying "but i dun wanna!" is just a whine, and my response is then don't play then. You are able to play however you want, don't blame me because you're not willing to play it properly. I realize this is a dangerous statement in such a PC world that we live in, but seriously, why should everyone bend to YOUR will, when you can't prove that it's better?

If you're arguing that CPMA brought more people to VQ3 because of FPS restrictions, I'm going to call you the biggest moron on ESR, even bigger than Jamerio, because there is literally 0 evidence to suggest it. As a matter of fact I would argue CPMA killed vq3, and if you look at the number of people dueling in CPMA I would be more right (even though that's obviously not the full story).

It's not about what I do or don't want (I get 125fps, I have a CRT that gets 120hz, so it doesn't bother me at all).

There are problems with being required to use 125fps in order to play on an even level:
- Image Tearing
- If you can't you're at a disadvantage purely due to you not having the hardware because the game makes it a disadvantage (This is where it differs from say mice or internet connection)

Why does and why should the game require 125fps?

It's actually you who are forcing people unnecessarily to bend to your will, when you can't prove it's better to have FPS dependent physics locked at 125fps (Why not 85fps or 333fps?).

No, I wasn't claiming that CPMA VQ3 brought more people to the game.

VQ3 TDM activity did increase because it allowed other nations than France, Germany, Netherlands, Sweden and the UK to compete (Even if those teams were still very strong) on a much more even and fair basis.

There is an arbitrary cut off of FPS in every game. Are you saying you could play CPMA competitively at 1 FPS? 2 FPS? Really? Where does it end. In OSP there's a hard and fast number. 125. In CPMA the cut off is somewhere around 60. Fact is you can't get away from it. You're just claiming your arbitrary number is more important than 125. It's not. It's just as arbitrary and silly.

Also there was what, one TDM nations cup for CPMA? And you're arguing that "increased activity" was somehow meaningful? I'm not buying it, sorry. :)

It was meaningful for all the teams who were playing in the leagues and cups (There was also a second NC if I recall correctly).

You can't play competitively at 1 or 2 fps but it's a quite different situation to the game forcing you at a disadvantage because you cannot reach an arbitrary number.

It's out of the games control if you can't reach 125fps, but it is in the games control to have the game work the same at 1fps and 1,000fps.

I'm not asking for any arbitrary limit, I'd want no FPS limit and physics designed to be the best for the type of game you want to make or play.

My point is merely that there is an artificial limit in any game you will ever play which dictates whether or not you will be at a disadvantage. Whether this is 30 fps or whatever it will exist, because otherwise the game will appear choppy, etc.

If 125FPS physics were replicable in an FPS independent way, then sure, that would be optimal. However people never tried to create an engine where this was possible. As such we are forced to use the hack which is FPS dependent physics. At this point you're basically playing a different game if you don't have > 125 FPS. Is this bad? Of course it is, but the fact remains that at that FPS the game was excellent.

The physics are near identical in CPMA VQ3.

Sure others games have an FPS limit but they behave at all FPS values whereas BaseQ3/OSP do not.

CPMA VQ3 physics are 76 FPS OSP physics, not 125.

They aren't equivalent.

That's my point.

Nobody claimed otherwise.

Then sorry, I missed your point lol.

How about both of you shut up and go your separate ways?

One of you is arguing a moot point; and the other is being an asinine troll.

Why do you argue with him? He's being rude and impolite..

And I suppose you're a saint?

Indeed.

Oh?

Please forgive me :(

No worries, you don't have to apologize since you did nothing wrong :)

I lolled.

I can achieve much more than 125fps, why can't I play on 333 (because OSP decided it was bad...), or 500 FPS if I have the hardware?

This argument is where they always give up.

What if you needed 1000 fps to have proper working physics? What if quake 5 comes out and is the most hardware demanding game out there, and it also has fps dependant physics? Its not about someone not having a pc that can run q3 with 125 stable fps, its about the game being BROKEN and thus requiring you to have a good pc and/or using shitty graphics to have an advantage over other players.

What if the sky was green? What if pigs flew?

Your hypotheticals are pointless. The fact is you need 125 FPS to play OSP, and every computer that anyone here has can do that. There is no controversy here. It's the same thing that EVERY GAME EVER MADE has done, push hardware limits. Stop acting holier than thou over it.

What if the sky was green? What if pigs flew?

Trippy.

*puff*
*puff*
*pass*

are you stupid? you like how osp played more than you like how vq3 plays with cpma nowadays, fine. but stop talking nonesense
not going to read this shit any further

I'm not saying they're bad for gameplay, bad for consistency maybe but honestly I can't say I've ever given it any thought with regards to gameplay. It's irrelevant though, reintroducing those bugs was not an option for CPMA because so many other parts of the game relied on those parts not being broken. My argument is that blaming CPMA is retarded when OSP is still sitting there.

Also I like how you bring up how arqon was "forced" by rage (how exactly was he forced by people complaining? Did somebody track him down and hold a gun to his head?) to introduce the OSP spawn bug not realising that what you're actually saying is that when there's a solution that is clear cut and can be implemented without breaking other parts of the game that arqon actually did it. So that's actually quite reasonable of him.

God you're dumb.

So your argument is VQ3 should never have moved to CPMA because CPMA VQ3 is in every way inferior to OSP. That's what I said in the first place.

BTW "fixing" the code base at the expense of hurting gameplay is a really moronic thing to do.

you're are behaving just like the people saying that QL is inferior to Q3 in EVERY SINGLE WAY.

I hate QL. Mainly because the game doesn't run properly on my computer at all. Maybe if I could move in the first 2 seconds after initial spawn I would be able to enjoy the game. Or if my fps didn't drop to 30 in a 10 year old game where I never get under 300 in q3 then I would be able to give it a rational judgment. Til then I will stay out of the conversation entirely.

Fix your pc then :)

Can you show me how to with the skills you gained from taking a course in Microsoft Word gillz? Pretty please?

Personal attacks? That's the first rule on how not to argue :)

Gillz I'm not arguing with you, I would never stoop so low. I'm insulting you. You're not worth arguing with. You have no idea what you're talking about and claim expertise in areas you have none. Go tell noctis again how he's wrong. Please? Call me a cunt face like you did becks? Something about glass houses and stones.

Personal attacks? That's the first rule on how not to argue :)

Raged gillz?

Personal attacks? That's the first rule on how not to argue :)

I think his last comment was actually a question

That's not my argument, I personally thought OSP VQ3 was every bit as shit as CPMA VQ3. But yeah I guess it never should've moved, whose 'fault' is it that it moved? The players.

BTW arqon fixed the code and altered CPM gameplay to avoid hurting it, these fixes had been in CPMA long before VQ3 support was ever readded so I don't even know why you mentioned that other than trying to grasp at straws because my argument is untouchable.

I still don't know what your argument is, as you've never clearly stated it.

The reason that VQ3 moved from OSP to CPMA is CPL and other tournaments used CPMA due to promises from the developers. You know this as well as I do. It was a business decision that had nothing to do with gameplay mechanics as we both well know, so stop acting so naive.

What's your argument? What do you think should've happened?

My argument is basically "what are you whining about?" and then replying to your ragecomments.

My entire point with this whole thread was that CPMA fundamentally changed VQ3, and it was not, in fact, horribly flawed in OSP. OSP was perfectly suitable for competition play as it was, lacking a few features that CPMA did give it (namely: mvd, superhud) which had nothing to do with how the game was played.

People like you just state, without any reason, that VQ3 was fundamentally flawed and arqon's changes didn't, in fact, break it.

No, what you're saying is that OSP was perfectly suitable as a competition game on lan, ignoring online play

As an American I believe I know a little about the rage that went on in OSP with ping... It was still a better game a 50 ping than CPMA VQ3 at any ping...

Liam, "The reason that VQ3 moved from OSP to CPMA is CPL and other tournaments used CPMA due to promises from the developers." this is why, stop bs'ing

So fucking what? The players still switched and continued playing after Q3 tournaments were dead. Even if the players were absolutely forced to use CPMA it still isn't arqon's responsibility to sift through all the bullshit to try and come up with a list of changes that will appeal to everyone (or at least the ones who want OSP back)

If that many players wanted OSP back then why isn't it back? The CTF community, retarded as they are, at least actually fucking stuck with OSP.

The CTF players were really the only ones who had a somewhat real reason not to use CPMA, even if it was stupid.

The worst part is that he came into this thread with odd claims, then when anyone argued it, he replies with a long version of "You didnt prove anything so shut up", yet he's proving nothing back. He claims dumb things, doesn't have anything to back it up, and just trolls everyone else.

You're pretty dead on about everything you said though.

Odd claims like OSP > CPMA? Yeah gillz you're so smart. When you guys come up with a reason that CPMA should have altered the gameplay of VQ3 like it did, I'll listen.

No one has to meet your demands, or do anything because you TOLD them too on esr. Coming into this thread with the attitude of "prove me wrong" only screams narcissism.

I have no argument for why CPMA's changes made VQ3 better. You all apparently do, yet I have heard none. So really I'm not sure what you're talking about. Please try again.

I'm going to put my thoughts right here, since you guys are arguing so much, I can't find another spot.

I agree with everything hoens is saying, I've been around during all of it and saw it first hand, all the rage about CPMA.

First, OSP movement was pretty much the same as CPMA at the start. It was floaty and felt like butter, even if it was broken code. But then arqon 'fixed' cpma to have this weird gay movement...

We asked arQon to make CPMA feel like OSP movement, but he said it was impossible.

We wanted:
OSP FPS INDEPENDANT JUMP HEIGHT integrated into CPMA. We got so many people to tell arqon to try to do it, but in the end he said he could not because it makes other bugs and shit, and then 'fixed it' to his own will.

We all hated CPMA when it was out, no one ever played CPMA CA/ctf/tdm or duel, it was set to CPM first, then you had to vote VQ3 and like 20 settings and it felt bad (arqons shitty movement)

arQon then took out the 50 MS lag code and then all of a sudden CPL and some tournaments started using CPMA for their stuff.. and then pros switched.. and then leagues switched.. and then arqon made some stupid MVD and included xerp and crosshairs and superhud.

CPMA could have been great, it just needed the nice movement back and for arqon to disable XERP. (xerp made the game too much about LG only)

What a waste. Also CPM early versions like 1.1 was good also. Then arqon introduced his movement shit for those cpmers and most of them raged also, lol.. Tricks got really hard and people just quit.

In the end, arQon = moron.

I still think removing the 50ms lag from OSP would make one hell of a good quake mod.

Hey guys, let's all switch up to this other game that we hate, because 32 random people that I have never met before are playing in a tournament that I will never play in.

God, this game sure sucks, and the tournaments went under, but it's too much trouble to go back now. Hey, let's complain on ESR about it, but still play it anyway!

His time line is hilarious for someone who was there at the time.

it's incredibly naive to use the argument that competition, in perhaps the most competitive fps game of all time second to only 1.6, has no bearing on the decisions of the community. the game was only as great as it was because of international competition. it's international competition that pushes the bar higher and brings the best out of the game. for the vast majority of players who played, they would never be in the top tier, but they loved to play, spectate and follow the top tier in all manners that they could because they know and appreciate what q3 is fundamentally about.

I'm pretty certain for example a vast majority of players were against the removal of bunnying that was introduced in 1.6.

what do you think happened to those players? well, the competitive ones sucked it up and moved on with the scene and tournaments to 1.6. the casual players kept playing 1.5 or quit the game.

the exact same thing happened with the whole osp cpma spiel, but in q3 the casual-lol-game community is non-existant, they are all off playing excessive plus and urban terror. in q3 the community consists of people who avidly follow and play the competitive standard. the fact is that cpl set that standard when they chose cpma, leaving the q3 players who loved their game for what it really was, and that is pure competition, no real options other than to switch.

now if you use the argument that international events boasting monetary prizes and prestige do not increase the level of the game in skill and competitiveness, i will cease to respond to you on this issue as there is nothing more i can say.

it's incredibly naive to use the argument that competition, in perhaps the most competitive fps game of all time second to only 1.6, has no bearing on the decisions of the community.

CS and Q3 are still lightyears behind DOTA/WC3/SC. It doesn't matter anyway - if you dislike the game so much, DON'T PLAY IT. It's not even like I'm saying that they should play CS (even though they might as well, with this kind of idiocy), but merely to play a game which is 99.99% the EXACT SAME THING.

the game was only as great as it was because of international competition. it's international competition that pushes the bar higher and brings the best out of the game. for the vast majority of players who played, they would never be in the top tier, but they loved to play, spectate and follow the top tier in all manners that they could because they know what q3 is fundamentally about.

For 32 players... If those 32 players started playing CS, UT, or WoW, would you do it?

the exact same thing happened with the whole osp cpma spiel, but in q3 the casual-lol-game community is non-existant, they are all off playing excessive plus and urban terror. in q3 the community consists of people who avidly follow and play the competitive standard. the fact is that cpl set that standard when they chose cpma, leaving the q3 players who loved their game for what it really was, and that is pure competition, no real options other than to switch.

Actually, there is no real competitive community in VQ3. QL has proven this completely. All the whiners who complained about how CPMA wasn't exactly the same thing as OSP turned around and happily accepted QL just because it has players. Nukm runs a community ESR league, and we get a small percent of ESR users even signing up, with an even smaller percent who could have even played at a level that they could even begin to complain about nuances. ESR users aren't really elitist or competitive, they just post that way.

Actually, there is no real competitive community in VQ3. QL has proven this completely. All the whiners who complained about how CPMA wasn't exactly the same thing as OSP turned around and happily accepted QL just because it has players. Nukm runs a community ESR league, and we get a small percent of ESR users even signing up, with an even smaller percent who could have even played at a level that they could even begin to complain about nuances. ESR users aren't really elitist or competitive, they just post that way.

Because QL is the same as OSP VQ3? Why yes, your logic is sound and I understand your point completely. Oh wait no, your anecdotal evidence actually supports the claims that people DID drop the game because they didn't like playing it, so you got your wish. nice nice nice.

By your logic, people dropped OSP because they didn't like playing it.

Or: People play OSP. OSP starts dying due to lack of a competitive scene/tournaments organized for it. CPL chooses CPMA, people play CPMA and whine about it. People migrate shortly to QL, QL disappoints the majority, they don't play it.

People still played CPMA long after Q3 was dead. Sorry, you're being crushed by your own logic.

Continue to cherry pick, though. You'd make a great Christian.

You mean after all the OSP servers were taken down and migrated to CPMA because of CPL? But yeah, I'm cherry picking.

Oh, I didn't know you could only take OSP servers down without putting them back up. I guess CPMA just replaces OSP.

Even the server hosts hate OSP.

Yeah that's what we've been talking about, CPMA replacing OSP due to CPL. Where have you been?

Due to players. Where's your OSP server?

People who hosted servers changed to CPMA from OSP due to player pressure because the top players wanted to practice for CPL. Since CPL was hosting tournaments, it was the correct thing for server hosts to do. So a subset of the OSP players moved to the CPMA servers, and the remainder quit playing. Once CPL folded the damage had been done to the community, and the players didn't come back to the game. This was further exacerbated by the fact that there were no servers for them to come back to, and no tourneys. Teams disolved due to the switch, and thus there was no infrastructure to facilitate a change back to OSP.

I realize this is hard to grasp, but it's what happened. Try reading it a few times and fully understand it.

Please, point me to a server admin who says that they had requests by pro players to switch. Again, where is your server? Do you have one, or do you just sit around complaining that you don't have servers to play on?

If trying to rationalize it helps you sleep at night, keep it up. It doesn't make you any less wrong, though.

I'm not going to find sources for common knowledge on an esr thread. This isn't wikipedia, or a research paper. Although you may be right. The disappearance of all OSP servers around the time CPL announced it was choosing CPMA is probably just a coincidence.

You also act like Q3 wasn't on it's last legs to begin with. It was in 100s of players before. Fracturing the community in to CPMA vs OSP just wasn't going to happen.

Finally I fail to see what this has to do with CPMA being inferior in terms of gameplay to OSP. RTCW was better than CS but it died an even quicker death. Go figure. Good != popular.

Q3 was on it's last legs due to the failure that was OSP. If not for CPMA, we wouldn't have had the few extra tournaments that we did!

There were also still plenty of duel OSP servers even in the prime days of CPMA. The only ones playing it were bots, and only because they were forced to.

You're right. It had nothing to do with no new players joining the community, which is a result of multiple factors, notably absolutely no reason to since there were no competitions, and new games coming out. But sure, you're so smart.

Exactly. People left the game because it was bad, and new players didn't have people to play with because the players with common sense already left. With excuses like yours, I don't even have to make an argument.

It's like talking to a retard. I love esr.

Case in point.

"Exactly. People left the game because it was bad, and new players didn't have people to play with because the players with common sense already left. With excuses like yours, I don't even have to make an argument."

are you trolling? am i falling repeatedly for your bait?

your distinctive lack of clarity for the bigger picture is quite disappointing, but you can keep riding on your high horse should you so choose. i mean, how did your argument come to the point of blaming osp for players leaving? that's pretty odd - because you also claim to be a fan of q3/part of it's community. you do realise that all osp is just a more tweakable version of baseq3? and that it's fundamentally the same as quakelive? i thought you were capable of intelligence thought, come on..

Trolling him, because he's trolling.

He's merely giving an interpretation of history, so I'm doing the same.

"Q3 was on it's last legs due to the failure that was OSP. If not for CPMA, we wouldn't have had the few extra tournaments that we did!"

how do you substantiate that statement about osp and failure? in what aspect did it fail?

i'm quite certain that if CPMA didn't exist that the CPL would have used OSP anyway, so i'm not sure what your point is there; it comes off as a troll.

You're right, I'm speculating - just as you are. Both are useless in a real discussion on the issue, so, would you kindly stick to facts?

To say that the fate of the OSP community was decided by the CPL and server admins single-handedly just isn't true. The players ultimately had the final say about what mod they would play but instead of riding server admins, either prior to the switch or after the CPL went under, they bitched at arQon. CPMA was played for a while, an improvement over OSP overall in this poster's eyes, until the mass invites to QLIVE in July '08. Most people that I spoke to that came from OSP/CPMA VQ3 did not like QL, myself included, but still continued to play it without trying to switch back to even CPMA and the CPMA servers disappeared, with the exception of maybe 2-3 VQ3 voteable servers. Now, we have pretty much zero control over what Id does with QL, except for 'professionals' (lol?) and those same people still continue to play it.

I blame the players, at least in NA, hands down. EU players seem to still run OSP/CPMA servers and have strong player bases (speculation based on browsing q3 servers once or twice lately). What makes the scene here so different? Younger players without the means to host servers? I don't get it. Players here just accept that there is seemingly 'nothing they can do' except complain about their situation that's 'been forced on them'.

Because the scene in the USA is made up of wannabe professional duelers whereas Europe is made up of people who just want to enjoy the game (e.g. OSP CTF players who never switched because a broken version of a broken game was better than a fixed version of a broken game for CTF).

Woah woah woah hold he phone here... you can't use logic and reason to argue that's unfair. Logic is the xerp of ESR.

Basically, this:

Q3 -> Q4
OSP -> CPMA

I know which change made a bigger impact and had more of the community switch over (despite both originally being equally close to Q3 OSP).

Edit: I think I'll spell it out just in case.

It's the OSP -> CPMA switch that was more successful in having the community switch.

CPMA lasted about 28 months
Q4 lasted about 14-15 months

Q4s community was tiny and was propped up by a small influx of new players who seemingly hadn't ever played a Quake game before and the 32 or so wannabe professionals.

"My argument is that blaming CPMA is retarded when OSP is still sitting there." Was he dead on about this? Gillz stop claiming to know something about this were you even around in osp? It was probably mainly because of CPL changed to cpma(Not that I cared osp was dead in Iceland anyways)

Don't assume I view his opinions as 100% the truth, I said "pretty dead on" which is very subjective. Most of what he said I agreed with, that doesn't mean you can assume that EVERYTHING he said I agree with.

You're right though, I wasn't around during the OSP era. I never even downloaded it, or went to a server with OSP running.

But, my post was more about Hoens posts lacking content from his perspective, the post wasn't really about me liking OSP more than CPMA. Personally, I don't care what was used, since Q3 isn't played in tournaments anymore (exception: asus lans) and because of that, it doesn't really matter anymore :)

Cg_Xerpclients

There was a pretty much concencus about few changes. Namely, increasing the acceleration speed, so CPMA would not break CTF completely (this was then done in QL for this very reason). Making hitscan weapons harder to hit compared to projectiles, while maintaining them as very powerfull weapons if you could hit (this was achieved with the 50ms inbuild lag in Q3, though I'm sure there are be better ways to do it, but I bet they all require some sort of artificial lag á la Q2 rail). And finally as an easy and fast decision to make the game better; removing xerp from VQ3.

All these changes were presented to Arqon and denied. It was obvious that the code came first and gameplay second, which was a stance he had every right to take, but that does not mean we should like it. Especially when we were using CPMA because Arqon apparently promised CPL to support VQ3, which he never did. That also makes Rhea quite a visionary for not handing OSP to Arqon, and thus saving the Q3 CTF scene.

No, they're the changes that you reckon would be good. There were plenty of players who loved whoring the hitscan weapons. What does "increasing the acceleration" speed even mean? Faster starts or faster overall? You throw retarded ambiguous terms out there and then wonder why nothing was done.

Arqon said he'd support VQ3 to the CPL? Where are you getting this shit from? Arqon added support for VQ3 after it being removed for a few years but I don't recall him ever stating he'd support it (at least in the way you're suggesting.) Did he actually say this or did some idiot post it on ESR and you just assumed it was true?

See what you're both demonstrating is just "I WANT THIS TO BE LIKE THAT" without saying how, the solution is pretty clear: go back to OSP, nobody playing it? Convince them. Can't convince them? Well that's tough really isn't it? Why don't you go bitch on the wow forums about all the OSP players that stole? Is it because that seems retarded? It is.

These changes were discussed here for a long time, and while there is not anything that 100% of people will agree with, the concencus was decisive enough to make the changes. Though I admit that people were a bit cautious about empowering Arqon to do changes to VQ3, because it could have opened a pandoras box had Arqon misunderstand those powers as "carte blanche" to do what he pleases. And I personally think it was a legit concern when you saw what he did with CPM.

the "ground acceleration/air time" was also discussed here in detail, and technical reason and solution was presented by people who know more about it than I do, and I vaguely recall you participating in those threads. I believe Arqon thought it would be too much work, or atleast that was he's explanation at the time (had it been easy he most likely would have gone with the "we dont make exceptions between game modes" that he later used with xerp).

"Some idiot" was the person who made the decision to use CPMA; CPL's league comissioner Chris Moncivalles (posting here as symm2112). I dont really see what he would gain by lying about it, and Arqon did not deny it either.

It is not bitching about how things should be in OSP/CPMA, that time has passed. It's a conversation about what actually did happen.

While the "concencus was decisive enough to make the changes" there was no consensus at all on how to change anything.

At no point was any actual reason or solution presented for an improved system, nor were any details for actual changes presented (e.g. changing the air acceleration to X).

We had camping_gaz saying "It's wrong, wahahwhawhahwhah, look!" then whenever he was asked to help or actually show why something was wrong he just said "Nah, I don't care I'm too cool and French and above helping".

It was all vague "Just do it you fucking ruiner" whine.

There was already a tweaked version of VQ3 called CQ3 which was ignored even though it had faster acceleration and weaker hitscan (Which is apparently all people wanted...).

Why would arQon have taken a "carte blance" approach to changing VQ3 when he already had CPM? It makes no sense.

The CPL didn't ever ask for changes to be made to VQ3, so I guess arQon fulfilled what he promised the CPL.

I do remember seeing pretty much the exact variables and units that needed to be changed to gain OSP feel, and Arqon saying that when he tried it there was some unspecified problem that was too much work to solve. Too bad that finding anything old in this site is a pain in the ass, so not going to bother with it now. The other two examples I gave are no-brainers. But yes, it is true that most people dont have the skills to come up with the fixes themselves, so all they can do is voice their opinion.

CQ3 tried too much at first, and when it was given to a more community orientated developer, Quakelive had already been announced. Otherwise it could have been really interesting project.

I dont remember Moncivalles specifying what exact support they made a deal about, but that it was a major factor in choosing CPMA for CPL, and that they never got that support.

I don't recall any other FPS independent physics system being presented. The only person who I recall mentioning code was camping_gaz who continually refused to help instead of whine when asked to.

There were often values suggested, usually ones identical to those found in CQ3, with people claiming they were identical to OSP but whenever people tried them, they always came back saying "It's still different".

This was in fact the major problem, it was impossible to get the physics to behave like BaseQ3 so the closest possible implementation was used (Which didn't "break" bouncepads etc on id maps).

The problem with CQ3 was, everyone was so busy blaming arQon for "ruining" their lives (Most of whom never play, ever), when the switch was first made to CPMA VQ3, the current state of CQ3 was:
- Increased ground and air acceleration (Basically what people wanted)
- Ramp & Double Jumps (Biggest questionable change)
- PM2 Spawn System
- PM2 weapon balance (Which wasn't too drastic a change)
- No cripple

I don't recall anyone from the CPL ever saying they didn't get the support, I've seen people say it over and over but never the original quote (I'd certainly like to see it if you can find it).

they chose cpma becoz of the gtv MVD features for example and the promised support was to fix some bugs in vq3 play and add full MVD support for ot if i recall correct.
and arqon did it he even was on gtv at the first major tourney wich used cpma and he was watching some games YES VQ3 and chattet to people on gtv what they felt about the changes and so on
but i guess after cpl died he lost interest with this stupid unreasonable community. i dont blame him i hope he does collect all 5 chaos emeralds and becoma finally a yellow hedgehogg.

oh btw did this wannabe german analyzer and his french hacker friend ever build this promised new osp? :D

CQ3 is superior to QL, however.

Arqon said he'd support VQ3 to the CPL? Where are you getting this shit from? Arqon added support for VQ3 after it being removed for a few years but I don't recall him ever stating he'd support it

^ if he didn't say it, it was definitely implied. the reason being that CPL's MAJOR reason for using arQon's (he was a member on the cpl committee btw) mod, was because of, and i quote: "ACTIVE DEVELOPER SUPPORT". of which, clearly, OSP did not have!

Yeah, and he did? Fixed bugs n' shit and added spectator friendly features. I think the problem is you've confused "support" with "change"

cpl revived q3
cpl chose cpma
cpma was chosen becaus of an active developer
arqon fixed some bugs
arqon asked the community what they felt could cater towards an better vq3
community went unreasonable crazy as not everybody got what they wanted
arqon : FU
community is raging till the very day
:D

laghax -1 is what made everyone hit so much xerp just meant you didn't have to lead your shots.

?

He said "Everyone knows that CPMA didn't change the dynamics of VQ3 duel."

You said "he's not trolling, he's laughing at all the retards who claimed that CPMA didn't change the game"

So which is it?

It's called sarcasm?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire

FTA: This "militant irony" (or sarcasm) often professes to approve (or at least accept as natural) the very things the satirist actually wishes to attack.

i dunno why but you remind me of a canadian andrew feldman

You're saying I look like this guy? http://www.andrewfeldmanpoker.com/

Clearly, u know nothing, pt4 on high-level was never purely rail in OSP. Watch ZeRois playing pt4, his main weapon was RL in most of his games and he mastered that map.

fail of the century

OMG DIAF

nice interview

BEST PLAYER EVER.

nice reading. cooller is true icon. he is like rossi of esports.

more like the fedor of mma -.-

cept cooller plays tough opponents.

Brock Lesnar doesn't fight top opponents either

another ufc fanboy talk meh. or maybe a bait attempt, which i doubt...anyway lemme know when you find someone better than this

Defeated Former Pride fc and UFC Heavyweight champion
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira x 2

Defeated Former UFC Heavyweight champion Tim Sylvia

Defeated 3 x World Heavyweight K-1 champion Semmy Schilt

Defeated Former UFC Heavyweight champion Mark Coleman x 2

Defeated Mirko Filipovic (at his prime)

Defeated Former UFC Heavyweight champion Kevin Randlemen

Defeated World Heavyweight K-1 champion Mark Hunt

Defeated Renato Sobral

Defeated Undefeated Vale Tudo fighter Zuluzinho


also, the comparison was about both guys being very iconic and true to what they do. you fav fighter Brock is like the Forever of quake4, shitty loser attitude, even when he wins heh

EXTREMEEEE

But only Big Nog was the defending champion, all others were past champions - for example every one is beating Coleman right now but don't get the fuzz with I destroyed the PRIDE AND UFC HW CHAMPION !!!

Don't get me wrong Fedor is the king of MMA and for sure he doesn't go american with his victories ("I AM THE 1337" and shit). But still your points are invalid. And he would eat Lesnar for dinner.

<3

I'm becoming a fanboy!

its the pics isnt it!

good read
BEST PLAYER EVER!

coolllaaaaaaahhhhrrR!!!!!!11

nice nice..

BEST PLAYER EVER!

nice read! :o)

Very good read, gl in future events Anton :b

alltimes lucky

hello

alltimes unique

COOLLER GIVES ME WOOD

I lion will never cheat on his wife, but a tiger wood.

I'll be seriously pissed if cooller doesn't qualify for the iem finals

BEST PLAYER EVER... EVER!

BEST INTERVIEW EVER!!!

ye coollah da best!

MOAR COOLLER BATH TUB PICS NOA!!!!

might I just say this interview really STINKS

Dude that first pic is mint!

COOLLER :D

Brain + Nerves + Charisma

Cooller best player ever!

nice interview and good answers. overall very pleasing. well done young dird.

av3k>cooller

[-]
avek is flashy theatrics, cooller is just nasty-dodging McSkillsteine skillsplosion of creamy skill with a topping of epic one-liners.

Wow, I had to log in for that one :D

The best there is, The best there was, The best there ever will be.

NIce interview

ok

wow, esr is in love!

My favorite player of all times :) Thanks for the interview Dird :)

larvi's fav pic :D

i just wish it was me under the water

and it doesn't even sound gay

IM SPRAYING CUM EVERYWHERE

he seems to be spraying cum too.

HOLY SHIT. FUCK YEAH COOLLER \o/

When did he go to work on a normal cooller day?

the poker bit

lol, dird is an admin now

.

can he live from gaming, or what does he do irl?

I'd tell you, but I'd have to kill you.

Awesome Dird, well done for adding some original content.

Oh, and

BEST PLAYER EVER

great job, good read :)

has he ever considered, that the quake-days might be over sometime? what is he gonna do then? becoming an alcoholic and die around ~ 50 like the average russian?

he's gonna build a time-machine

if old cooller kills young cooller, does he cease to exist?

He have no problems in malking money besides cybersport. Don't worry.

Poker? HaHaHa.

Aw... Sad he knocked Germans?


AWWWWWWWWWWW..........

I'm sure he's not worried. You can retire on $5k in Russia

LMAO@UK in winter.


I love the fact that the guy recording actually knew it was an accident waiting to happen and had his camera waiting.

Proper English.

omg

wrong thread?

Anyways... lol.

wtf. I hope that guy didn't end up under his own car

Clearly didn't.

why didn't u ask about he agp thing?...

.

does he know about the chinese tiger year
or u mentioned it

.

there're a >1h long russian video interview with cooller and one with cypher taken at dreamhack http://www.goodgame.ru/video.php?ocd=view&id=986 + http://www.goodgame.ru/video.php?ocd=view&id=987
superawesome funny and stuff
but i cant be arsed to translate them :D

If you can't be arsed to translate, then I can't be arsed to click. :D

someone subtitle this in english and you can have my house

how didnt i know you were doing one?
awesome questions and cooller answers, what more can i say

how can you not love him, seriously

and btw, esr is so not hating when they get something good

What is his main job? Poker? If so, he must be good at it since I don't think living in Moscow is cheap.

what kind of poker do you play? NL HE? Heads up? ring game? cash? tournament? stakes? site? screenname? :)

Breakfast ---> some poker ----> gym ----> lunch ---> some fun like movie \ friends \ online games \ soccer --->dinner---> quake quake quake ---> sleep.

Nice setup. And esr is the only international site he visits? <o/
Cooller is the perfect Quake player. And esr the perfect Quake site, best questions ever.

Nice interview there, Dird

Cooller for president!

If I were a chick I'd want to have Cooller's children. <3

I'm a guy and I would steal the children.

Not to sell, tho, right? Just to take and raise as your own?
Because making money strictly for yourself, off of Cooller's awesomeness, man that's just wrong.

of course!

Cooller: The Next Generation

Bib that says: Born to Pwn!

rekkth kexibq

rekthxbbq

haha classic

good interview! Some interesting questions - some over hashed questions...


More interesting questions.

Alltimes we try to find reasons. Let me say the luck was on his side this day.

Sounds almost Bushido, cept that he's Russian.

104 positive replies and a troll attempt!

cooller truely owns esr

Doesn't matter what he does.. We'll just spray cum.

Fact is his gamestyle is great and his oneliners in combination with funny english are too good to be true.

BEST PLAYER EVER

I knew it. Cooller is Christian Bale.

Should have known from that audio leak from the studios!

christian bale is the best I love all his movies! :)

even t4?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV-z8BsItMY

Interesting thoughts on Cypher. Cooller is seemingly very honest, no bullshit. I like.

hehe)) Mini-cooller

nice englich

Indeed nice interview :D...

What kind of preparation are you putting into QuakeLive? What is an average day like for Cooller?
Breakfast ---> some poker ----> gym ----> lunch ---> some fun like movie \ friends \ online games \ soccer --->dinner---> quake quake quake ---> sleep.

Sounds like a tough life. :D

Logged in to plus this.

Cooller is one of the few people who appears on web and in game as he is in real life. His attitude, although a bit rough and blunt at times, is evenly spread over the mediums he appears in. I think, this is why people have retained respect for him even when he slipped down a bit in rankings.
Guy's a rocker, true-and-true. 'nuff said.

rankings, shankings, popankings.

BEST PLAYER EVER!!!

imo he's back on his A-game again, or at least the last few games I've seen him play were very, very impressive. Better than he's been in years, really, imo.

[+]

I'd shag him

more pics of cooller in hot-tub!!oneonetwo

Nice iview. Thanks for keeping cooler's answers as is, makes it so much better.

Cooler rules. So much style... Even at speaking english :)

Google:
Search for: Cooller
Did you mean: the god of quake?

91%

omg.

cooller expects no less than the maximum...[+] that shiz! :P

Error: You have already judged this post

continue...


:(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

97 now ! ;d

need 100

100 just won't cut it for Cooller

"Cypher is a very emotional boy btw :)" - better word - FAG !

Anton rulez for his long-time dedication :).

ye, life-time achievement award!

that was the best quote but I am curious why did u have to insult cypher? the guy is ok

this is ghey

hey cooller u midget, kiss my cock with these communist lips.

says bivsa komunjara :D

i liked that kind sir.

Logged in to plus. Never been fan of dueling in Q3/QL till I saw Cooller playing. A masterpiece at work.

He's one of a kind russian motherfucker 8)

Fuck why doesnt it reach 100%

.

sif i wouldnt already have plussed it

98

LOL fanboys, cooller is so overrated

















SIKE!

COOLLER = QUAKE 3 GOD

BEST IN THE PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE.


RUSSIAN SUPERHERO

COOOOOOOOOOOLLLLEEEEEEEERRRRRRR 4EVER

(side kicks include LeXeR / uNkind / nObap / Jibo / Cypher)
(Supervillains include ZeRo4 / CZM / Toxjq)
(bitches include all of ESR especially noctis and every woman on earth)

so in the semis of Dubai, cooller went for a bit of roleplaying?

yes, that makes sense.

CZM a supervillian? C'mon, hes the closest to having a cooller that america will ever have.

idol

Cooller > Chuck Norris.

kinda hard to decide .. mhhh .. :/

99% [+]
:D

Cooller interviews should be asigned 100% automatically.

i came.

where

in my face (?)

WTF, why isn't this 100% yet? Get plussing you goddamn slackers!

still not... TF ESR?!

av3k is alltimes lucky ? :D

Not in HOF yet?

russian bone crusher

all i could understand was: I want to rail all night long.