depends on game mode...

The title and the second period both contain the word "duel".

duels r boring.. CTF > ALL

genius

thank you vanion

ghey

timer. elaboration? add 25 to the seconds.

elaboration? add 25 to the seconds.

Well mr. clever, let me state two more obvious things, so that you can laugh more at my nerdy soul:

1) Due to the modulo 60, adding 25 is the same as subtracting 35 and vice versa.

2) There is a trade off between speed of computation and memory required. To exemplify:

a) The fastest (but memory demanding) way to do a calculus is to already know the answer with a lookup table, i.e. learning by heart all 120 couples of numbers (in practice less than 120, because of trivial couples and redundancy).
b) The slowest (but memory light) way is to do an addition is increment the first number by one and decrement the other number by one, until the second number is zero. Nobody but a machine would ever do this.
c) Between these two, there is a ton of different schemes. It might be interesting to know which one people use. Got my point?

Thanks for saving us, Captain Obvious.

1.1) Armor(s), MH
1.2)...never timed any different for out of control
2)Adding 25 (or 35) to timer, remembering as best I can
3) At first spawn- estimate. Later- no idea.
4)Not very good at this.
5)Keeping it all straight.

[+] for appreciation =)

Not very good at any of this so far, but I've never thought about timing things differently for in/out of control. Look forward to more responses on this.

I only time when i can be bothered, which isn't often since i just like running round holding W and Mouse 1 in public games, but the easiest way is to base your game around the MH i.e. adjust timings from preset values and not trying to do them on the fly... because that almost never works unless you have learnt each number and the next values to do it automatically.

Let me explain;

0:00 <- important
0:35
1:10 <- important
1:45
2:20 <- important
2:55
3:30 <- important
4:05
4:40 <- important
5:15
5:50 <- important
6:25
7:00 <- important... and now it resets (sort of.. X:45 X:10 X:45 X:20 X:55)

For example, if you take MH on 1:13, you don't start adding values in your head, that's bad, so Instead you just realise that 1:13 = 1:10 + 3, with 3 being the key value.

Therefore if you get confused, you just do 1:45 (the next mh spawn) + 3 = 1:48, and if you for some reason forget to go at 1:48, just assume you need to be at the next mega for no earlier than 2:20 + 3 = 2:23.. and if the opponent delayed/didn't know, you'll atleast be able to fight him for it, or put a few rockets onto him if you are positioned well. Eventually they might get delayed a whole 35 seconds in which case, the process resets. But this method essentially ensures that you can find your feet if you get confused by remembering every second mega up to 7 minutes, so easily.

Then just time the red or the yellows inbetween, making sure you take them on every 0 or 5 if possible, which will then mean that in most cases there are less clashes with megahealth, to some degree.

Quad is easy.

Same applies in and out of control with the mega, perhaps you could afford to miss one mega at some point (preferably inbetween those important timings) to re-adjust your armor time for a decent mega attack on the next.

gg

jo this is how i time powerups in cpm, its awsum. not having to think plus 90 or whatever, just being able to think 5 seconds before or after the 'actual' time.

i time the same way. rounding up/down to either xx:x5 or xx:x0 and adding 25/35 while trying to keep the rounding error in mind. i suck horribly at this though :p

1) focus on mh first then ra second
1.1) a) mh b) ra (ya's by instinct - atleast trying to remember in which order they spawn)
1.2) a) mh b) ya's while trying to stage an attack at mh/ra spawns after i collected enough armor (ra by instinct while focusing on it spawning before/after mh)
2) see above
3) if i see someone coming off an item location i substract 2-5 seconds depending on his location on the map
4) mostly ra/mh in relation to each other. i try to do this every time the other guy isn't around. don't delay everything to xx:x5/x0 though because a good player will realize what you're doing.
5) everything. i'm slow and tend to forget about things :<


one last edit: it's probably much much better to simply memorize that ra pickup at 32 means it spawns at 57 again and you keep repeating the items+times in your head... ya 34... ra 46... mh 50... etc.

i used to play darts in a pub in central London all through the 3 years i was at Uni. me and a mate would play for hours drinking that samuel smiths (man in a box)
all the old dudes there that had been playing darts for a million years were pros at adding up darts scores. we would take time and somtimes get stuff wrong under the old geezer pressure XD
they would just have done the calculations so many times in so many different orders that to work it out there brains had shortcuts. so it realy does become like you look at 2 numbers and you just know. you dont have to work anything out you just know. our brains are more than capable of this. like everything though its just practice. gota give props to my mate kenny who was also a maths robot due to having it drilled into his brain from an early age in a jappanesse school XD
the thing that gets me is that to practice this specific form of maths we are talking about in quake, every time you come to doing it you are in a fast paced stressfull game that doesnt do you any favours for learning.
im not so good at flash games but i may be able to make a 'quake timing game' İoleedee(lol) with randomised times and answer buttons, to get faster and faster at the maths. if anyone could help me with the action script for this get in touch :)
EDITlol just saw the flash thing later in this thred :P it leavs alot to be desired tho, could be made advanced

i do almost exactly like this but, i didnt realize that the whole process resets on 7:00 , thats why always my performance after half match becomes worse, thanks.

yeah, I try to do it in more or less the same way, except I forget times immediately, and when I do have the current time on an item, I totally neglect the other one(s) and I'm totally clueless =p.

since some time I try to figure out how the pros time, and I see a lot of them indeed delay the items to values of 5.

Why do you want to know? You time like a bastard :P

If going by clock

1.1) 1 main item only (MH, RA)
1.2) YA and shards, and try to do 1 main item
2) Add the numbers, ez.
3) First 3 minutes, just do multiples. Later, then ignore or wait to see when the other guy picks it up.
4) I try but never get it right, always wait too long and the guy sees
5) I look at the time, calculate it, repeat it, but I forget it before the time comes to pick it up, very irritating.

If by instinct

1.1) All
1.2) All
2) None. Rhythm and feeling.
3) When you feel it at the start, you usually have it the whole game, might lose the feeling on 1 item but then I ignore it.
4) No, because it will mess up my own timing.
5) Playing against someone who is timing by second. They always have the upper hand.

Comparing the above, I play far better when I use the second method, but am pressured into learning to time by second because when I do lose, it's because of per second timing. When I do time by second succesfully I do pretty well too, but it's nothing like how I sometimes crush people when I feel like I know everything on the map.

"The guerrilla Quake player must move amongst around the people map as a fish swims in the sea...while remembering how to add and subtract."

i won't say

Won't give up your secrets for the people in your division? :P Well I can tell you already that Memento_Mori has the best timing in our div.

oh then i guess i have nothing to lose, here i go:

1) hey

wait a minute, you almost tricked me!!

secret tactics!!!

t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7 t7

elaborate, even =)

1) What items do you time... Armor/Mega/Health-spheres. Railgun if you're playing a rail-only prick. Or just bait it. You know that fucker is going to go for it.

1.1) ... when in map control? Obviously

1.2) ... when out of map control? It can only help

2) Timing Math? What's your mental scheme? Memorize. If you pick ra up at 33 you just know it spawns at 58, no calculation required.

3) Timing statistics. How do you predict the spawn time when you're off timing? Well if you hear it being picked up, you know the spawn time. If you see them around RA area, chances are they picked it up within that time, so you just estimate.

4) Timing delays. When, how, why? When - if your opponent sees you going for the powerup then runs away like a girl, delay that shit. How- Well you simply wait a few more seconds then pick it up. Why- either to make the timing 0,5,10,15... interval or to confuse your opponent.

5) What do you think is the hardest thing related to timing? Keeping times and properly planning ahead for the entire 10 minutes.


This is just what I do. I don't claim it to be the correct/best way to do things.

"Railgun if you're playing a rail-only prick. Or just bait it. You know that fucker is going to go for it."
depending on the map, maybe*-ed; it is pretty easy to stop RG pickup on dm6, or use it as a trap, but
if you camp RG on t4, which is not so much powerups based, at some point the other player will understand what you are doing and at that moment you'll be put in disadvantage because you give up your position too often -he know where to find you, RG zone

"Why- either to make the timing 0,5,10,15... interval or to confuse your opponent."

Well most importantly you don't want that mega and red armor spawns at the same time which would give the opponent the opportunity to get one of the items and thus you lose map control. :(

never thought of that

1.1) MH and atleast one armor (RA if it's on the map)
1.2) atleast one armor and shards

2) armors by instinct (if I'm in control), the rest by adding numbers

3) camp the item if i have proper weapons and a decent stack, else ignore it

4) if two major items spawn at the same time. just by waiting around the item

5) timng itself is easy when you know the times, even for multiple items. being out of control and only knowing the time for a one or two items and having to figure out the rest is the hard part

at the beginning i timed with a table as nvc described. i even integrated a table with times into my HUD.

eventually because of problems with times getting delayed all the time and me getting better at adding and memorizing numbers i stopped using times table. its still useful when you don't know item times and you know approximate item time delay.

i find it useful if i calculate and memorize in advance two times for an item. if i have time and peace.

1) What items do you time...
1.1) ... when in map control?
usually MH + one or two armors

1.2) ... when out of map control?
one item to steal/ambush + one or two items that are left from enemy

2) Timing Math? What's your mental scheme?
now i just remind a value or add. i used to add 25/35 from next 5th second.

3) Timing statistics. How do you predict the spawn time when you're off timing?
time table + approximate delay

4) Timing delays. When, how, why?
usually every forth armor will probably clash with MH. at that moment i only have one time in my head and i substract 25 and delay for ~5s

5) What do you think is the hardest thing related to timing?
- remembering times while fighting or predicting enemy (it helps if i keep repeating times)
- remembering item order when i have time for two or more items (helps if i am focused on a match flow)
- forgetting when to delay an item (again, its better if i am focused)

only time and practice will get me there.

1) What items do you time...

that usually depends on a lot on the map obviously (and on what items does the enemy times). on t9 in control for example i time mh by second and one ya, then i run i try to run the full ya cycle in order of spawns. on dm6 i try to also time the ya (besides mh and ra obv) to know when i can steal it from the guy out of control. on dm13 i mostly dont time ra cause i rarely pick it up at spawn anyway... and so on and so on, differs a lot.

2) Timing Math? What's your mental scheme?

i just know the X0/X5 + 25/35 times and add/substract the seconds its off from that. to remember them i just repeat the numbers in my head in order of spawn time.

3) Timing statistics. How do you predict the spawn time when you're off timing?

well in some situations you can try to hear it, in the beginning you just know the times anyway and often you can have a good guess cause you see/hear the enemy going in to the area of the item and you know it is already there and sometimes i have no clue at all and just focus on positioning and trapping. again, it differs a lot.

4) Timing delays. When, how, why?

on dm6 for example you have to be carefull to not let mh and ra spawn at the same time when in control, that might need delaying one of the items. when you know that your enemy is timing the item, you can confuse him and use it as a trap. but tbh i do it way to often, its not always usefull.

5) What do you think is the hardest thing related to timing?

it requeires a lot of focus. once i get distracted (rage, timeout, rl distraction) i tend not only to lose the current times, its hard for me to get back into timing at all :(

I close my eyes... hear cooller's voice in my head and listen carefully.
" MH @ 37, I'm talking it ! "

i like your style

Obi Wan Cooller?

:D

HAHAHA :DDDDD [+]

Xd

id really want to know how top players are timing. their whole mental process with timing and its influence to map control and match flow. comparing their differences in style. here, this is an idea for a multiple interview :)

... if you play duel for 7 years and do not know all the different variables then you're doing it wrong. Come on man

i play quake only since september. thats any kind of quake.

i was referring to the fact that players like cooler have played duel for 7 years...

ah, ok. i totaly agree they have all time values memorized already. but still i wanted to know how timing influences their decisions in gameplay, map control, item runing, delaying etc. i think this is a less known aspect of top players. we all know how someone rails, shafts etc., but not so much about the way he times etc.

It's 2010... He's been playing for longer than that:P

Some information from a newb =(

1) What items do you time...
1.1) ... when in map control?

Mega\ra. For others I memorize the sequence of taking them (if I did) and how it relates to mega\ra spawn times.

1.2) ... when out of map control?

the same

2) Timing Math? What's your mental scheme?

I'm too slow to count, so I learnt values by heart. Some days it's ok, some days I can't concentrate and keep forgetting them quickly.

3) Timing statistics. How do you predict the spawn time when you're off timing?

Most of the time I hide (with rail if possible) and wait till I hear the sound of the enemy picking up an item. 'Guessing' usually gets me fragged, because the enemy is there.

But if I lost timing because I 'forgot" and not because he took items last time, then I go there by feeling, but not too close just in case. Most of the time he's too scared to attack full-force if he's weak anyway.

4) Timing delays. When, how, why?

Doesn't work well if I do it the normal way. So usually I do it midgame if he's weak and can't be around to see that the item is being delayed. Why? To secure that he's going to proceed being weak. And I do the opposite if the opportunity arises. If an opponent lost his timing but happens to be in the important item area at the wrong time, I spam that item from distance pretending that it's going to spawn. He goes to it and starts fighting me off, hoping for it to spawn and help him, and I come closer and get a frag.

5) What do you think is the hardest thing related to timing?

Not to confuse what the number is for! Stupid things happen when you confuse them.

1) What items do you time...
MH to the second in every map, yas by feeling and ra to the second
1.1) ... when in map control? ra and mh, I dont rly time ya , only think which ya spawns first
1.2) ... when out of map control? depending on situation, if i dont have mh ra time, i time yas and try to get mh time
2) Timing Math? What's your mental scheme? if i take mega at 1.24, i add 30 first and then 5
3) Timing statistics. How do you predict the spawn time when you're off timing? quite simple, just find enemy and try to figure what he's doing and then predict which item spawns 1st
4) Timing delays. When, how, why? if I got hard time to get solid control over my enemy ( like both getting kill almost turn-vise) i think its good to delay, other than that only when I'm in control and feel like deepening my control
5) What do you think is the hardest thing related to timing? when you play vs pro, they give ultimate pressure to you and the playing is very intense and it can be difficult to remember item times when there is so much other stuff going on.



I think this topic is good, atleast for that you can ask yourself what the heck you do ingame, i mean you see stuff on paper and you dont just have that "feeling" about what you'r doing

IF i time then i usually say 2 numbers in my head, the first one always being RA and the second one mega.

I do exactly the same :)

Timing math - Add 30/20 then add the 5 later.

I have a huge calendar on the wall, right to my monitor, that's all

1) What items do you time...
90% of the time it's RA.

1.1) ... when in map control?
RA and try to remember if MH spawns first or after.

1.2) ... when out of map control?
I'm fucked. Yellows.

2) Timing Math? What's your mental scheme?
+25

3) Timing statistics. How do you predict the spawn time when you're off timing?
Depends on the map. Sometimes you'll see your opponent setting up for the item, which is a good indication. Camping out is also something I do at times.

4) Timing delays. When, how, why?
Sometimes at round start. If I kill my opponent right next to a spawned item and he knows it has spawned, I delay.

5) What do you think is the hardest thing related to timing?
Remembering the times and keeping control over what comes first of MH and RA.

http://nantaises.free.fr/timer/timer.htm

nuff said

;-)

anyone else here who can't physically force himself to time items except when he's playing vs someone better?

i can only time when i'm playing against someone worse, put me under any sort of real pressure and i loose track 3-4 minutes in.

i'm exactly the opposite, if outaimed / have worse positioning, i know that i have to time, otherwise i'm screwed.

i cant force my self in any situation :(

haha

i know

Never time, it's more important to fight the opponent than the map. Be aware of the items yeah but I'm not playing for fucking £1,000.

Fighting a stacked guy isn't helpful unless you've got a much much better aim to start with. You'll just keep being fragged.

Yes, that's exactly what I was suggesting.

Not timing = give all items to opponent.

what happens if you accidentally stumble on an item?

:o]

I wait for the enemy to ensure he gets it.

"anyone else here who can't physically force himself to time items except when he's playing vs someone better? "

isn't timing items supposed to be fun?

interrogatives aren't always the best way to troll

was a legit question

no, shooting people is fun, looking at the numbers in the upper right corner isn't.

so we agree that what's actually making quake an 'elite' game is essentially not fun.

not being fun doesn't mean it doesn't require skill. people who can't do it actually wanted automatic timers. christ.

of course it requires skill. point is that the elements making other sports 'elite' are usually more fun than adding numbers.

i don't see where you're going with this

going? I've already arrived. it's more fun to get better at sports, it's not fun to get better at quake. so why should we play it?

you're kinda oversimplifying things

how?

because people who can time are not unbeatable. it's just one aspect of the game, very important one though because you can base your every move on knowing the item spawning. when the first guy learned how to time, it gave him an edge over the others, so they had to learn it too, obviously. every competitive game uses timing in some way. its not easy to constantly have multiple numbers in your head while running around shooting, running away, panicking...its multitasking, and not everyone can do it. the ones who can, have an advantage. and it should be like that.

on the other hand, improving at "real" sports requires... lets say hard trainings, gym, 2 hours of running, sprinting, and i doubt anyone enjoys it. but they have to do it, pays off later on.

core elements of a sport are fun. movement - fun, aim - fun, technique - fun, teamplay - fun, adding numbers - ?

is the ball SPAWNING in certain places in any sport whatsoever?

no. point?

point being you can't compare an fps game with sports, cause sports don't even use the timer for anything besides checking for how much time do you have before your attack ends (i.e. basketball)

you can compare it from the aspect of being fun. here we have a videogame whose core element happens to be not fun and in order to get good at the given videogame you need to be bored a lot. why should we play it again?

not everyone is destined to be a champion. why don't you just play for fun?

also i seriously doubt anyone from the top20 players is bored.

I do, hence I don't play videogames that require me to add numbers while playing.

as in competitive fps games?

as in videogames that are boring.

it took you how many years of playing quake to figure it out?

0.1

numbers, figures and stats are an important part of many games

in quake live you constantly guess how healthy your opponent is, even if you don't time, everybody complains about damage output of weapons after updates and the 'bullied' player in a game often uses plasma gun (highest dps) or shotgun (highest damage output per single shot) to try to take over control


That stuff is even more important in games like wow, where dps, replenishing your hp, your spells are vital variables in the me vs. you equation

timing to the second may be weird, but not everybody does it and you even may encounter better players that set up for a spawning item even if they don't know if ra spawns at 6:30 or 6:34

tl;dr

i actually feel that timing is a really cool aspect of duel, i like it

It's retarded. Constantly doing arithmetic while playing a game? It's not exactly rocket science. Or fun.

not at all. i actually have some kind of flow for every map. this works better on one (ztn as i've played this gazillion times) and less on others, as i haven't got enough experience there.

but i rather go with the flow then let my play being dictated by items

homophobic?

...what?

your pic says no deeplinking please :(

crap. it's a roccat arvo keyboard :(

nice thread :)

1) depending on map, enemy and so .. mh, ra, shards (like on dm6), sometimes 50hp bubbles..

1.1) mh > ra, also map depending Yas (trhough pickup order, less on-the-second)

1.2 YAs, shards, trying to get timing on MH or RA (depending on whats easier to reach)

2) +25, +35 .. sometimes rounding up / down .. depends on my mood :D (cba to time all the time .. but i think everyone here has the same problem =D)

3) most of the time adding +25/+35 +- 5s to my last known time ;) - and: trying to hear / see when enemy is picking up major items.

4) depending on map, ingame situations etc.. most of the time to make sure i have some armor as backup if something doesnt work out as intended and i can run away ;) - and of course to avoid overlappping mh / ra timings. or, if i am stacked enough, to bait enemys waiting :)

5) motivating oneself to continue timing throughout the match, regardless of playing weak / strong players. as soon as i stop timing i stop playing seriously giving away the game .. happens way too much :/

I usually add the 5 first and then add the remaining 20 or 30 to times.

If RA is 18, then i add 5 to make it 23, then I know 3 is the per second time, and just add 20 to make it 43.

If I forget I can always remember that 3 is the per second time and guess 33, 43 or 53 and make sure to turn up whenever.

MEGA @ 41
1 + 5 = 4[6] +30
Then it must be 0[6] or 1[6].

If i do MEGA @ 41 and add 30 first then 5 I sometimes forget easier when fighting.. i don't know why.

Also
1 = 6
2=7
3=8
4=9
5=0

So if MEGA is at 36 I immediately know 6 corresponds to 1 and the timing is 01.

MEGA 3[2] then 0[7]
RA 2[8] then 4[3]
MEGA 5[6] then 2[1]

Seems weird but works for me..

I have noticed that having the timer on the right side of the screen works better for my eyes and my brain. This way i seem to get the information a lot faster (talking about milliseconds).

When i have the timer on left my eyes would do 3 contrasting motions:
a) going from the crosshair to the beginning of the clock
b) reading the time
c) back to the crosshair

While having it on right the a and b parts go as a one smooth motion. I think it has something to do with the fact that we read from left to right and it is easier for the eyes and brain to accept. When i have it on the left then my eyes will go looking for the information but get it reversed first.

:)

lol my coach handles this

speaking for duel:

ive different styles to arrange the order in my head, depending on the map (ztn /t9 for instance is very different)

on dm6
spot 1: mh time 2 ra time 3 ya time
i just fill in the time in the proper spot (witch i got from adding 25/35) and repeat all 3 times in my head. like 13 18 35 or x x 46 , i just put x'es in if i dont know the time.

i also remember direkt spawn order, for instance "shards ra in order " or "ra shards" in order etc,,,..

its so easy to remember item orders rather than all times its sometimes okay to just remember the time of the initial spawn. on ztn for example its so easy to determine or read witch items got picked up in a straight order.

its more important that you convert the information about times properly, that you really capitalize out of it.

let me explain, most people dont abuse those infos. if you are in heavy control on dm6 for example, and around the rl and ra is up in 10 secs, you should really consider making a push for the shards quick before taking the ra, instead of hanging around bridge and maybe taking a rail before etc,,,, its better to get the rail after you prevented him the shards witch the would prolly have taken,,, just an example of what i mean,,, you can really practice such things to death,,,,,


another thing i want to say:
i think there different styles, if i just run the map its really nice to have all items and just take em in order, but if mh/ra are really hard items to fight for, you should time to second and take them infight on purpose or ambush style xD

listen to this guy. best duel player to respond yet.

i have another good example, what "timing skillz" in a far sense are, but a lot of people forget or not even think about:

take ztn start:

you can almost always tell, wether rl ya is taken before ra.
(you spawn rail or nades -> down rail , you see if hes goinf left or right at mega etc,,,

if so:

at the beginning of the first item respawns of a duel game, you should position yourself at rl ya and go ra afterwards!

so many people leave this ya untouched. if ra is like 3 seconds after this ya, its worth to go for it first, than via tele to ra.if its even more you could also go mega, try to rail him at ra, and be happy you positioned yourself well to fight for mega, its already on paper yours then! and if you rail or shaft damage him well while he jumpled to ra,,,, you already outplayed him and should maybe be able to go 1:0 after the mega...

lol

:D

agreed, timing by seconds enables you not just to take the item properly but also to make better decision on what you can do before

waka waka waka
:@

Video games don't affect kids, I mean if Pac Man affected us as kids, we'd all run around in a darkened room munching pills and listening to repetitive music. - Kristian Wilson, CEO at Nintendo Gaming Corporation Inc.

i used to never time at all, since i mostly played cpm tdm, and had the armor times down to feeling pretty well.

in cpm tdm i only timed quad, and that i did by dividing a minute into two halfs, whereas

0 -> 30
5 -> 35
6 -> 36
25 -> 55
29 -> 59

and so on.

then when someone picked up the quad at 59, i knew it would come again at 29 in the next minute (timer counting down).

in ql duel, i initially tried to do the same thing, but it was quite the hassle, because jumping the 30 seconds is really easy this way, but you still have to add or subtract 5 depending on what item you're timing.

so atm i'm just trying to to time ra and mega by adding the numbers. tho its quite the hassle atm and i suck at it. i figure if i go through the initial rough patch, it will eventually be the fastest method.

there tbone, you've done it.. happy now???

Well it's not like you had any amazing secrets..

ORLY

I'm sorry if I dumb down the addition problem and write obvious stuff, but given you have to do this under pressure, it might be worthy to discuss it to the smallest bit.

I personally use descending clock, for no particular reason, except the fact it was used in the ESL casts. The overtime bug, however, is a bit annoying. Since addition is easier than subtraction, I do +25 for mega and + 35 for armors.

What I hope to reach in the future is to just remember all couples of numbers, so that for any time the corresponding +25/35 just directly pops up in my mind.

What I do at the moment is a less memory demanding method. I separate the addition for the two digits.

For the lowest digit it's +5 modulo 10 addition (five couples)
0 - 5
1 - 6
2 - 7
3 - 8
4 - 9
5 - 0 (*)
6 - 1 (*)
7 - 2 (*)
8 - 3 (*)
9 - 4 (*)

Then the second higher digit is modulo 6 addition with the possible carry over (*) from the lowest digit:

Mega: +2 modulo 6 (six pairs):
0 - 2
1 - 3
2 - 4
3 - 5
4 - 0
5 - 1

Armor: +3 modulo 6 (three pairs):
0 - 3
1 - 4
2 - 5
3 - 0
4 - 1
5 - 2

So basically, besides the carry over for the second digit, it's only fourteen pairs to remember.

Ohhhh... I actually accidentally figured out what u said there. It's actually really goddamn quick to calculate, the hard part is now remembering all the items I have timed. I was timing like 5 items with your method, but I can't recall the orders very well.

But thanks for the timing secret, this will make it easier on me.

I don't really time unless its quad. So yeah if you time against me I'm fucked. And I suck when I'm not in control.

n00b
I freak out when I'm in control. : )
Especially against you.

AH HA!

The best way to time is to MEMORIZE all 120 timings for armor and mega. Get some flash cards, write the starting time on one side and the correlating spawn time on the other side. It should only take a matter of hours to memorize. If you have passed a high school level math or vocabulary exam, this shouldn't be too difficult a task to accomplish. In the event you space out and forget a timing, use the 1->6, 6->1method.

I just practiced to calculate it fast, so the actual calculation isn't the problem. The problem is not forgetting to do the calculation and then memorizing it.

T9 -> just MH, and memorize the YA sequence (should go automatically)
All other maps, both MH and RA and if I forget one of them I try to remember which one was picked before the other. MH before RA means they'll spawn around the same time.

Don't listen to this guy, he has the memory of a goldfish.

If a goldfishes' memory is all that it takes :)

<3

There's a lot of great information here in this thread, but I think the REAL question is still being ignored.

How can she slap?

I also wonder why nobody [+]s me for starting it :S

nice thread =) i [+]'ed you

If you're still reading this...

1) What items do you time...
Mostly megahealth and RA, obviously YA instead of RA on maps like t9.

1.1) ... when in map control?
Same as 1, except that if I'm in completely controll I run an extra yellow armor.
I don't time the extra yellow, I just figure out a few good paths in wich I can just pick it up between RA and MH.

1.2) ... when out of map control?
Depends on the map.

But if I can I just time RA and YA.


2) Timing Math? What's your mental scheme?
I prioritize the items in my head, like this: RA MH.
Then when I pick up an item I calculate when it will respawn again, and just memorize it.
At first I had to keep repeating the spawn times, but I don't need to do that anymore, as soon as I calculate it I won't forget, unless match is paused (damn lame poles).

I remember them by priority, if I pick up the ra at 22, I will just memorize 47 exact.
If mega would spawn at 52 I memorize it like 47 52.
I always know the first one is ra because of the priorites I set.

As for the math behind it, I always time exactly, no cutting down to multiples of 10 or anything.

Another way is to add/subtract 20 or 30, that way you'll be sure to be in time for the armor/health, but I don't do this myself..

3) Timing statistics. How do you predict the spawn time when you're off timing?
I pretty much just try to hear the enemy pick it up, or observe when they move away from the item and add 20-25 or 30-35.

If I simply messed up the timing I try to extrapolate from old pickup times.
Like, if I know mega was taken at 0:03, 0:39, : 1:15(wich happens like, every match) but if I didn't pick it up at 1:50 and 2:25, I check to see if it spawns around 3:00-3:05, usually it's delayed a bit.

4) Timing delays. When, how, why?
This is useful to make sure megahealth and RA don't spawn at the same time. Usually just delay so mh and ra are at least 5 seconds apart.
(That's the when, how, why)


5) What do you think is the hardest thing related to timing?
Knowing when items spawn when out of controll depending on the enemy.

I've played toxjq, and I simply never saw/heard him pick anything up, so my timing was always off.



Also, there's a few things I wanna ask in general.

Has anyone ever tried controlling a map just on YA and RA, ignoring mega?
I mean, ya spawns more often than mega, wouldn't it give you more protection in the long run?

Also, if weapon respawn times were higher, it would bring more depth to the game imo.

Like how fatal1ty said he prioritized picking up shaft and shaft ammo over picking up megahealth in PK, because it would give him the edge in fights.

on topic, i just add 25 or 35, its not that hard, lol.

if it goes over the 60th second, lets say 43, then i add up to the full minute, and add the rest.

43 > 17 > 8 (armors)
43 > 17 > 18 (mh)

lol, funny I never even thought of using that technique. cheers =p

i am new to quakelive, first time i just started to memorize the times they ussually appear, like 1:10 2:20 3:05 etc.. (on dm6).. but i also try to just add 35 or 25, sometimes i do it on feelinh, i think after a year or so of playing you are able to do it by feeling some items.

in soviet russia, the item times you!

http://quake.net.pl/galeria/18040.jpg

might want to check the times for mh ;)

it's not mine, But this photo was pretty popular over polish q3/warsow scene :)

no name script ftw.


also, i can't even read the numbers. :o

with the risk of transforming this thread into a huge one, you should divide it into 5 different sections (=number of maps)

good idea :)

i use my hacks

hit a bind and then a wav file plays that counts down for me

same for me, only difference is Naomies are dancing all naked around my monitor