I'm sure you'll get plenty of informed responses here for your research.

lol

Both companies make a lot of overpriced crap. Some of it's good, some of it's decent, and a lot of it is shit.

I still prefer MS to just about everything, tho. :)

me too, but MS don't really make anything.

OEM. close enough.

razer for mice, steelseries for everything else.

deathadder from rzr
old qck+ and the 7g from steelseries
rest sux

Steelseries 7G keyboard is top notch (but that's to be expected since it's just a rebranded Cherry)
Mousepads are decent but wear pretty quickly
Headsets meh. Microphones wear fast
Mice are alright but not quite there for reliability and sensor

Razer mice are mostly crud and break (seriously, how is that possible?). Only one that's ever been decent and lasted was a DA3G but even that had faults
Keyboards are meh. Bit gimmicky and not great build
Headsets are... hurr.... derp?
Mousepads pretty much same boat as steelseries




So basically, pick whichever is less shit in your opinion. That or rock on with a Microsoft WMO, Sennheiser headset, Cherry keyboard and a Puretrak talent

i would rock a Puretrak Talent if i could buy it in the UK

You can. Or at least I did. They sent it from America and it wasn't even that bad shipping with the various codes you can find lying around. Came to just a bit more expensive then a QCKheavy

Yes I have a puretrak talent from their US site; it arrived in just under a week and was a reasonable price (similar to a Qck heavy) including shipping.

I would really recommend giving it a try if your wanting something that glides a little bit more than a Qck heavy, its a really nice pad :)

Haha. At the moment I'm using an MS 1.1, Sennheiser HD485's, a Cherry WCG-branded keyboard and a black clothpad. Pretty much what you said there! :D

steelseries lie constantly about the features their mice + drivers supposedly have but really don't. Their support is a joke.

Razer keeps the lies from advertising at a tolerable level. I didn't have the pleasure of dealing with their support yet.

So imo razer wins.

Still, the good old WMO/IMO/IE3.0 or Logitech's MX518 kick their asses in regards of price and overall quality, and that is kind of sad.

But let's be honest here, if grown men build stuff for kids, not out of idealism but out of lust for money, they will inevitably end up with focus on advertising. I can't really blame those companies or people, I just wouldn't recommend to buy from them without reading every bit of information you can gather, because else you might regret it, it's very likely.

yeah, i personally have seen Razer mentioning 'On-the-fly Sensitivity changing' for several years since they started out, but it's bogus because you actually need the drivers to be installed to use the feature. it's only changed recently with their new mice with memory where you can save DPI increments on the mouse and shift between them.

At least they had the feature with drivers wich is a'ok, they didn't say "without drivers" did they???

while ss mice just can't do anything they say at all...no they are even huge hypocrites, they know all those flaws with mice and pretend to have it fixed but then their mice are the worst.

Razer makes really good mice, only flaw is the ridic low durability. Logitechs mice never wear out basically. I have an mx500 that is 8 years old and as good as new, and a razer diamondback were the buttons are broken, but it was actually replaced ones already because - the buttons were broken. I have only tried The diamondback, Death Adder 3g and Salmosa, and they have all been really really good. I'm talking both performance and shape. If a salmosa would be made with better durability without greatly increasing the weight and update the sensor so it would be more like a death adder 3g firmware 1.35 it would be Extremely hard to top. Im not sure if the salmosa might be a tiny bit too low. The cords are also the best I have tried. I hear about people where the cords are snapping so logitech are now making chords that are extremely robust but also extremely annoying and stiff even thought they are flexible. Cordbreaking is NEVER a problem and the cord should be as light, thin and flexible as possible.




As for steelseries. I have tried the QCK+ and it reeked horribly of rubber for months so I didnt use it at all for all that time. When i got to use it it was obviously very good with all that space. I also tried the SX and it's just horrible. It's way too smooth and offers zero control. Maybe its useful for some counterstrike players that use ridic over the top crazy low sensitivity, but for that it is way too small i could imagine?

Both shit companies that need a new competitor to step in and give them a wake up call by releasing properly tested quality gear at affordable prices forcing SS/razer to step up or gtfo.

I don't know how you people are breaking Razer mice without smashing them against your desk. My Krait lasted for about 3 years before I had to replace it, and only because one of the buttons was failing to register some clicks. I probably could have easily fixed it, but I opted to get the Salmosa for the form factor, and have been perfectly happy since. I also have a Diamondback 3G that's been alive for 2 years with no issue.

$30-40 for even a year should be acceptable. I have to buy new shoes more often than that, and they cost $20-30 more.

I've never understood how people break mice at all.

I originally used a Logitech OEM optical mouse for at least 3 years, which I replaced due to the low accuracy of the sensor. There were no quality issues, ever.

After that I had an MX310, which lasted me 6 years. I switched mainly because I had worn out all of the paint and it looked ugly (though, I have to say, that after 6(!) years of use, some problems were beginning to develop with mouse2 clicks not registering, like once per a few hundred clicks)

So I replaced it with a Diamondback, where the cord broke after less than a year, I soldered it back, and the mousewheel broke 6 months after that.

I have never had a mouse other than a Razer break on me, despite using them for much longer than I got to use the Razer.

(edit) you either buy crap shoes or don't look after them properly.

Well, I think it comes down to luck. The only problem I've had with a Razer mouse was the button squeak on my Salmosa, and it's gone now.

As for shoes, I buy what is comfortable. If your shoes last more than a year, you don't do much walking/running.

only good thing from
Steelseries is QcK+/Heavy
Razer is Deathadder

all the other stuff is either un-tested and over price or just over priced.
Razer were close to making the perfect claw mouse with the Salmosa and the Abyssus.
They need to Use Abyssus shell with Salmosa sensor and have 400/800/1800 dpi switch and 125/500/1000 Hz polling rate.

sidebuttons?

you cant put side buttons on a mouse that small IMO you will hit them to easy, unless you do something similar to the Fatal1ty mouse.

uhhh, wasnt that thing horrid?

Could always unbind it if it's being hit accidentally

1. I wasn't saying use the same shape as the Fatal1ty mouse i was just saying you would need to do something different from the standard mouse 4 and 5 next to each other

2.Yes you can unbind the buttons but you will still be hitting the buttons by accident what could be annoying.

In past months I bought many mouses and mousepads to find the perfect combination.

I have Steelseries S&S, I-2 black and razer Vespula and Destructor as mousepads and Steelseries XAI laser, Razer Imperator, Deathadder 3G and Lachesis as mices.

All I can say is that the product I love less is Razer Lachesis because of the shape and minor tracking issues. All the others products are great products (but all with some glitches).

It's an hard job to say which company is best: I never sent any product to repair and have no other terms of comparison other than product quality.

I think I-2 is the best mousepad I tried for the laser mices I own and Destructor is the best for the optical mices.

Steelseries XAI and Razer Imperator I think are on par on laser mices, while Deathadder 3G is only a bit better in tracking (especially no Z-Axis tracking) but it's a bit too large to claw it.

Imperator is buggy as hell. 2 months ago I risked buying a Xai and it's still working like a charm. If they would just take out the Z-Axis tracking on the imperator then it would be a solid mouse as all of it's issues are caused by it.

Best mousepad I ever had was the Allsop XL Raindrop xD

Sadly I can't find these anywhere anymore so I'm using a Qck Heavy.

/sorryhugeeffingpost

I have used a lot of stuff from all four major companies in the U.S. (Logitech, SteelSeries, Razer, MS) and I can say like many have already said all four have their faults and strengths. I'll just write briefly what I thought about SS and Razer though.

SteelSeries makes relatively quality products. The reason they get blasts of shit is due to the fact that they have some terrible quality control on some of their products. If you get a Xai that has next to no problems, it is seriously one of the best gaming mice on the market, no competition.....

.... on the other hand, while I haven't experienced this on either of the two Xai's I've had , people complain of negative acceleration on some of their Xai's, and others complain of possitive acceleration. Look on youtube and you'll find in-depth reviews where the reviewer has a Xai that complains of acceleration, then you'll find another guy that says his is flawless. The Ikari's were pretty great, however they didn't do anything terribly outstanding in my opinion. Not to mention the Ikari Optical lacked the customization that the Ikari Laser had.

In terms of everything else from SteelSeries it's pretty solid. You get what you pay for. The pads they have are pretty good (proof: QcK series etc). I've only tried the Siberia in regards to headphones but it was pretty solid, especially paired with the USB sound card. I haven't tried any of their keyboards so I can't really comment about that. -- Overall SteelSeries I think is one of the better companies, but they still have their problems as well (the Kinzu was an utter failure in my opinion, but then again it comes back to the quality control, because some people use the Kinzu still and don't complain of any problems what so ever).

In answer to the original poster, SteelSeries does seem to care about the community. They've hosted events (SEC 2010.cod4) and do give a positive vibe when it comes to their approach to the community. To say they're perfect would be a down right lie though. On an ending note I would have to also agree a little bit with #9, SteelSeries does tend to over-market their stuff.

--

In terms of Razer I've had a lot of horrible experiences with Razer products. The Imperator is a piece of shit, no excuse. As people have already said the z-axis tracking is awful, and the mouse is useless because of it. Even with the "firmware fix" for the z-axis, it's still broken. What's sad is that the Imperator is great at everything else. I couldn't encounter acceleration and the mouse feet were superb. It has onboard memory so you can save your profiles for LAN as well. All of that is ruined because the idiotic sensor Razer uses in their laser mice completely trashes the mouse.

On the flip side Razer has the DeathAdder which is quite possibly one of the most popular gaming mice of all time (it also performs pretty well). Most of the pads from Razer are solid but to say they're exceptional would be a lie. The Destructor wears out way too fast, however that happens to SS products as well. The Goliathus seems to be the only decent contender, but I think most people sway towards the QcK+ or the Talent anyways, so... yeah.

In relation to the community, Razer does a lot but I don't think they've held an actual event yet like SteelSeries has. Either way, they still do their part for most things anyways.

--

In the end it's all personal preference. Both companies have quality products and both companies have fucking awful products as well. You just need to choose which one you like more. If I had to choose a company that I like the most it would probably be SteelSeries however in terms of which company is actually "better" if you want to put it that way, I think Razer would nudge out SteelSeries by a microscopic margin mostly because of the DeathAdder 3G.

If you add in Logitech and MS then it becomes way more complicated with all of the mice thrown into an arguement (518, G5, MS3.0, 1.1, Xai, DeathAdder etc.)

My first mouse for gaming was this one
http://www.chip.de/preisvergleich/242101/Logi...Mouse.jpg. I remember that I used a really really low sense back then for 1.6, because I heard that most pros use it too. Dumb I know :P. I did fine with it and was still better than all of my friends but whenever I flicked it around the crosshair just didn't move :P.

So I bought a famous german gaming magazine and looked at some tests. In the end I bought a diamonback (the old one) with a s&s pad and glide pads. The first time I played with it was on a small 8 man lan between friends and I was overwhelmed by the smooth ingame tracking. I could flick it around like hell and still no accel. Nothing compared to the old crap I had.

But after a year the kable broke and so I was forced to buy a new mouse. My mousepad and glide pads were also worn out, so I decided to buy a stoffpad and a different mouse because the side buttons on the diamondback were a bit hard to use.

I bought a qck+ and the first deathadder and again it was the best choice I could possibliy do. Never had any accel or any other problem with the mouse and after three or more years it's still working fine. The pad is a bit worn out :P, but after all it does his job. Back then I changed my ingame sense too and compared to my old one it is really fast in 1.6. Something like 9-10cm/360°.

In quake I use a mid sense, at least I think it's mid sene :P. Kinda slow for me compared to quake, but still no problems at all with my mouse and pad combo. But I wish the deathadder were a bit smaller and lighter for quake cause it would be easier to track somebody with lg imo.

So I never really had a bad mouse but after my diamondback broke I borrowed a copperhead from my friend and this was the shittiest mouse I ever played with. I just couldn't flick it around without glitching :*(.

So I think every company does have its goodies and badies, but for someone who doesn't have a lot of money, my advice would be qck+ for 10 bucks + either a deathadder or mx518 and you won't face any problems for at least two years.

one of the first had to be the logitech wingman :P

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/wingmanmo...ingman.jpg

Okay, i feel like i can make a contribution here.

Considering logitech, microsoft, steelseries and razer, all of these companies are the larger competitors within the sphere of gaming peripherals. Logitech and Microsoft dominate when it comes to just general computing, with logitech arguably winning overall with greater quality and support, but Microsoft still make some quality products.

I feel steelseries markets itself as a 'no bullshit', more of a 'prestige' item, somewhat like an expensive car. Refined, comfortable, quality, and a lot of extrinsic value added through the use of advertising, or whatever have you. I only need to point out the Xai, 9HD, and the 7g as examples of this 'prestige' product line, that are more refined and pleasing than some others. However, SS apparently has touch and go support, so i can't really make a judgment, but i am put off by this fact. They do make quality products, i own 2x Qck+'s, and a Xai, and i have a pair of Siberias. The Xai is fantastic, no complaints whatsoever (Yes, there is slight pos. accel, but only like 5% or so, realistically you _NEVER_ notice it, Qck+ is good, no complaints, just a large cloth pad, it'd take effort to fuck one of these up in the design stage. The siberias are worrying for me, they feel flimsy and weak, but they sound okay for the price. They look cool too. Yeah, the whole appealing to the eye argument.

Razer aims for a different target market. One that is wooed over by DPI, and LED's, and implementation of technology for technology's sake. A good example would be the 1khz ultrapolling on their keyboards. Keyboards. Really? SS uses the old ps/2 connector for their 7g, at the end of the day, both work, however being able to make the connector (Gold plated, too) something marketable, means that there is an undue emphasis placed on pretty trivial factors when it comes to gaming peripherals.

Logitech seems to make fairly quality goods, but they often have superfluous features, or lack thereof. (Weights in mice? serious?) They do make some good keyboards (logi illuminated, g15) and also some good headphones (g35s) but they are not really aimed at the hardcore gamer (if you will), as often there are still flaws in their products. G35s, require drivers to work, 7.1 is slightly buggy, etc. Also, the g15 is a bit overkill, i mean who needs a screen on their keyboard (handy, sure, but necessary, probably not) I'd buy the mx518 from them, but it's got prediction (noticeable if you're looking for it) and it's a massive fuck around to get 500hz.... G9x is also good, but has a lot of silly features, and is arguably aimed at the MMO / casual player, not the hardcore fps market, which this forum seems to be mainly constituted by.

Microsoft. Good, cheap, a bit outdated, budget. I'd only recommend the 1.1a, 3.0 and their keyboards, their 'gaming' mice never really get preferred when it comes to fps gaming, as the sidewinder series of mice are large and feel cheap. Although i don't know how good/bad the really budget sidewinder mouse is, it might be alright, looks somewhat like a 1.1a, but anyway.

I'd recommend any pad by any company on principle, because it's quite difficult to fuck up a mousepad.... But big cloth ones seem to be fine (goliathus, qck+, etc) Logitech will never release a mousepad, spoke to a rep when i worked at a Chain electronics store.....

the 3.0 and 1.1a are exceptional mice, but for most users i'd say the DPI is too low. 400? Seriously it requires like half a qck+ to go across a single monitor, it's ridic for desktop / office work.... for those that have lives outside of gaming (god forbid :>)

mx518 is a fantastic mouse, logi are awesome, but it has prediction and it felt somewhat cheap... Not bad, but you only get what you pay for. g5, i love the feel of this mouse, but i can't say i've really 'used' one properly, so i can't speculate. Also, they have a more general 'gaming' line, that attempts to cater to all kinds of 'gamers'... clearly the g19 is aimed at more retarded users, macro keys, etc........ Anyway.

Razer is an entirely different kettle of fish. I felt like all razer goods i've owned (Excluding mousepads) have been cheap quality, and reliant on packaging and advertising to sell.... They occasionally make some fantastic stuff (Deathadder, salmosa, etc) but there are often critical flaws in their goods -> imperator, mamba, abyssus.

This is pretty incoherent, i put this down to the fact that i was out all last night and got fuckall sleep. Alltimes party, amirite?

i should point out that the Intelli sensors are from the time when 400DPI was perfectly fine, and the mice with these aren't close to new either. they're selling those mice because, well, they sell. when MS re-released the IME3.0 they kept it pretty much similar to the original, since they didn't want to fuck with near-perfection.

I agree, the 3.0 sensor is pretty awesome, i just find 400 dpi isn't enough considering the size of monitors nowadays, and often with dual monitors.

running a 1080p and a 1650*1080 side by side was rage on the desktop.... and not all games have direct input, soyeahhhh.

lol yeah i can imagine. i am gonna get a 1080p monitor soon, and i use the Intelli :X

if you only play ql, just double the windows sens (8th notch i believe) and just use in_mouse w/e

for games that don't use direct input, you're fvcked.

450 dpi :o)

same shit :P

i don't understand why anyone would want to buy a headset/headphones of a non-audio company

Game sounds aren't often of the highest quality, QL is a good example, the sounds in that game are horrid and the basic function that they perform (alert you to an action occuring) seems to work just as fine with $10 cans to $200 cans.... Although i've never had a set of 'audiophile' cans, i would assume that they are limited by the quality of the source, and often games are just subpar in sound qual

I would go further and say pc audio hardware is not hi-fi that's why the extra money for special resolution is completely lost with them.

If anything they need speakers that make something out of thin sound instead of replaying it perfect resolution..

crea* "I would go further and say pc audio hardware is not hi-fi "


depends on what you're using. Studios that are creating the media that the audiophiles are listing to on thousand dollar headphones? They made that with computers.

Even just my x-fi xtreme gamer sound card going to some sennheisers makes FLAC files sound way better than the onboard did, going to some cheap sony's.
edited for quote attribution.

I see what you're saying. I was talking about casual pc hardware like build-in soundcards or those for 'multimedia'.

There is high quality pc equippment for musicians and music makers of course but the casual stuff is mostly crap quality.


btw. I recently bought an old soundblaster live 5.1 and was amazed to see this 5 year older hardware sounded way better then the newer soundblaster live 24 bit. so much for soundblaster and audio quality.

Several cheap (in-ear) headphones that do the job can be bought, and in case one breaks, you have always enough as a replacement. Especially with QuakeLive I donīt see a big advantage in spending much money on that.

http://www.zowiegear.com/index.php?option=com...p;Itemid=2

A new challenger appears!

yea i saw that. it's nice to see that it's optical, but they could've certainly done better with the design. it really looks like taking Deathadder, Kinzu and Xai and mixing them together.

I think it looks more like a IE3.0, but yeh I felt pain while looking at the right side of the shell. Why did they have to copy a bad design...a straight side would have been a lot better imo.

razer and logitech for big boys
steelseries for cunts

Razer
--products, their quality & performance = New mice have rubbish sensors, old mice worked great but they broke quite easily.
-- prices = Over priced, more spent on marketing and making the product look cool rather than the actually performance of the mouse it's self.
-- the image you have of the company = shiny blue lights on products that dont work and over priced or their are better product's at a better price.
-- what they're doing for the scene in general (for events, support etc.)=
sponsoring a few major team.

SteelSeries
-- products, their quality & performance = steelseries are "ok" on product quality = with performace they make a few silly errors (for example with kinzu and Xai with accel problems"
-- prices - fairly decent pricing
-- the image you have of the company = good company but can improve.
-- what they're doing for the scene in general (for events, support etc.)
sponsoring major teams.
and give a few products to online tournaments

If you want the perfect keyboard and mouse, always look for OEM stuff. If you lurk around Geekhack for a while, you'll find that both Razer and SS have nothing too outlandish to offer.

For mice, it can be very subjective because of hand/mouse size and build quality etc.