So, you could just get a generic mechanical keyboard for $5, or spend the extra $125 for a different logo.

You sure like to troll and think you're clever (and you exagerate a lot too).

The closest you'll get is a used model M for $20ish and the 60-70g weight does not appeal to many. Whatever $5 mechnical you speak of (that you couldn't bother to name) is most likely a piece of shit compared to any mechanical keyboards I'm aware of.

How much are you getting for the advertising?

Nice try - it's a $5 keyboard with a $130 price tag.

thats how capitalism work. as an american patriot you should embrace it! after all, it's how your country was built.

The views expressed by the USA in no way represent the views of Vedic.

so what are you then? a communist? ahhh!

Kinda. =O

The advertising is free when I'm an interested customer and care about what I can buy on the market and immediately enjoy not some home-brew experiment of keyboards. You do know that part of cost is convenience, right? Your condescending nature is just here to fill space and pretend you have a point without even making a case for it, because you enjoy trolling but can't think past your shallow quip's to even grab anyone's attention that you're intelligent even on a practical level.

Name a mech. kb to be bought @ that $5 price and people might even actually give 2 shits about what you have to say, otherwise you're just wasting your bitter breath pretending like you're on to something and the rest of the world is just wasting their money. Clearly you have no idea the costs that go into mass manufacturing, or even the costs of the switches alone, if you think material + production costs are less than a grande latte at starbucks for what is percievably one the top keyboards money can buy (a mechanical), other than say a few Realforce boards, which usually go for several hundred dollars.

You should "give two shits" about any mechanical keyboard, as most generic mechanicals will do everything they need to. If you think macros, LEDs, and a Razer logo will make you a better gamer, then you've been successfully marketed to.

Fun fact: Koreans pros use a Samsung SEM-DT35

Fun fact: that isn't a mechanical keyboard

It's a $5 piece of shit - the most you need.

Can you link me to this $5 mechanical keyboard please

I doubt you even have the likes of Office Depot, Circuit City, Best Buy, Office Max, etc.. in your region.

they also dont exist. cheapest mechanical keyboard you'd get that isnt cheaply made is like $60.

I agree that they are irrelevant for gaming though.

Maybe not in your parts, but things like CRT monitors and mechanical keyboards are dirt cheap here.

you should stop embarrasing yourself. You are either trolling very hard or just don't know what a mech keyboard is.

Option 3: You're wrong in every way.

could you post a link with a brand new $5 mech keyboard? Nope, not even close. They start at about $50 to $60, even the reliable used ones.
The better ones are at $120-$130 (not including taxes and shipping), and it goes way beyond that.

Btw the rumors are that it uses mx cherry blue switches so that should be your reference

Believe what you want - it's not me overpaying for cheap hardware.

No, you're just paying for cheap hardware because you're an ignorant person and already proven you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

You know, just reading this thread had me considering buying them in bulk and reselling them here, but I guess you would rather overpay.

tbh if you want a cheap keyboard with mechanical switches (made by cherry 99% of the time) your best bet is whatever the cheapest cherry offers.
that's a cherry g80-3000 (you can choose the type of switches) right now which sells for around 60€.

if you really know a place that sells something similar for less than 10% of that please share.

The places that sell for that price coincidentally don't have websites, retail catalogs or any number you can check with.

I hear if you sing the Imagination Land song it'll take you there. Need a hot-air balloon though

I know. I used that kb as a price reference for that post.

Still, they must have a website or at least a retail catalog.

Lets have this link :]

Google is your friend, but the likes of Office Supply, Office Max, and Office Depot are more traditional. These are the key places to buy, and where I go for headphones, keyboards, and my allsop raindrop.

Hell, you're the one trying to prove the point. Link me bitch :]

Again, these aren't "internet shops" - they're more like an office warehouse. Hell, things aren't even usually labeled as their model, but just as "keyboard" or "mousepad".

edit: I'll take a photo when I replace my mousepad soon.

all those stores you mentioned, aside from office supply which i don't have in my area, don't have crt monitors worth buying or any cheap mechanical keyboards.

same here bro ; (

I didn't say I go there for a monitor. Keyboards, yes - obviously you haven't been in a long time.

I feel sorry for someone who talks about being able to take keyboards/mice apart but can't even so much as figure out the model name or switches used in generic keyboards sold at OfficeMaxx/Depot/Supply (and says they use generic names therefore don't have a model #) but think's they're mechanical swtiches not membrane dome's. Why don't you head on over to geekhack.org and get your ass handed to you in a lesson on keyboards 101.

No, they keyboards DO have models, but they are not labeled that way by the way the store sells them. My allsop raindrop is labeled "mousepad - $3".

i would like to give you some more replies and propose a business opportunity:
buy 100 of those keyboards for 5$ and sell them here for 20$?

Was thinking of it, as I said above. I don't need the money, though.

With a lengthy reply like that u fail. Trolled 2dabone

please show me a keyboard with mechanical switches <40$

the cheapest mechanical keyboard i can find is the g80-3000 from cherry.

which mechanical keyboards would you recommend? ( :

FILCO ones with NKRO, pricey, though!

show me this $5 keyboard you speak of.

it's funny how you think you know anything about making keyboards. what qualifies you, really?

Actually, I've tried making my own keyboards and mice. Unsoldering mouse sensors is a bitch.

key word being try

Keyboards are easy - it's the mice that are hard.

uh mis-click :\

Keyboards are an underrated piece of hardware. I will never go back to rubber caps now that I'm used to mechanical switches

This is the problem with a know-it-all attitude about everything, sooner or later you'll say something really dumb that steps into someone else's area of actual knowledge.

its just too bad hes right in this case :x

Half of ESR is rightly correcting him and telling him that he is wrong but no he still has this devout belief that he is in the right. I honestly don't understand how someone can be that ignorant.

i cud prolly own u with my cheapo keyboard while u spend 120$ on urs. how am i wrong?

Actually, I use a six year old £5 Genius keyboard and I love it. It isn't a debate about whether or not mechanical keyboards make you a better gamer, it's about him outrageously lying by claiming he can buy brand new mechanical keyboards for $5.

well if u look at it like that then ur all right, but still, like u said tehre doesnt have to be anything wrong with 5$ keyboards.

Which part of this statement "So, you could just get a generic mechanical keyboard for $5, or spend the extra $125 for a different logo." can you possibly "look at in a different way"?

derp.

=)

actually I wondered how much encourage the people found to answer him haha, he seems to me like a generic troll.

and anybody answering 'I could own you with my 5 pound keyboard' is an outrageous idiot, as you've been discussing the matter of price...

i guess this razor product will sell quite good.

but then you can endlessly reply to your opponent until he drops out of boredom ! which makes you right instantly ! last to reply win, that's internet arguing core rule

i see you have completely read a certain guy here.

Do tell me where you can get mechanical keyboards for $5, I would buy around 60 of them.

Looks like they're responding to the Steelseries 6Gv2

Personally I find it very hard to play without my 7G. I mean I can do it just as well, and I've had to go without it a few times before, but once I get back on it, it feels so much better. If this 7G mysteriously broke (I somehow doubt it ever will) I'd just replace it with a Filco or maybe the 6Gv2.

Look into the DAS... it's really nice :)

Yeah was gonna get one but expensive + couldn't be bothered since I already got the 7G :P

I love transporting my 7g. I flip it upside down and slam it down on the edge of a table, instantly popping every key off the keyboard. I don't know why, but I like traveling with the keys off the keyboard :)

I have a fun reason for getting the 7g as well. I was really fucking sick and tired of buying keyboards which would restrict me to 3 or 4 simultaneous keys held. Played quake for too long not being able to strafe while walking backwards and jumping at the same time.

True but that can be a downside. There's been rare occasions when I've raged and clench fist hit the keyboard randomly and the keys fly everywhere

and man on man, if you're playing in a team-game or something, you gotta ask for a pause to pick up all that shit lol





... and then there's one keycap missing like the fucking A key or something

Oh you and your overpriced crap. 130$ you got to be kidding me

Compared to other backlit mechanical keyboards it's actually pretty cheap.

Yeah I get many mechanical keyboards for free, or under 10$ off ebay.
Why would anyone want a lit keyboard to sit in the dark anyways, besides for watching movies but then the lit keayboard will suck...

You can most likely turn the lighting off and their is still the non-backlit version for 80 bucks.
There aren't many quality mechanical keyboards with decent matrix or NKRO in that price range (not saying if the BlackWidow will be quality).

$79 version

Can anyone recommend me a good mechanical keyboard. I've been looking at getting one but idk what to get. Currently I was looking at the filco with the mx black, the 7g, the 6gv2, or maybe even this blackwidow but I personally try to stay away from razer products.

Filco is essentially a 7G without the audio controls on the function keys I think. Really depends on which filco keyboard it is, but I'd guess that's the main difference.

I'm using a 7G and have been for maybe a year+ and it's faultless. The thing is, I'm kinda used to how it is now so don't notice how 'good' it is (derp :P), but if I go back to my old Logitech or Cherry the difference is just huge. Feels sluggish and less comfortable. It's like if you press a key there's a tiny delay between it registering (I guess that's the 1000hz thing from the 7G). That plus on my old keyboards they can ghost and the buffer can freak out if I press too much shit which is annoying. Kinda really have to try out these sorts of mechanical keyboards to get the feeling but I wouldn't use anything else now that I'm used to them.

If you don't need the USB slots, I'd get the 6Gv2. I'd guess it'd be just as good as the 7G but cheaper. People can complain about 'you're paying for the brand', but honestly, in the UK the Steelseries is about the same price as the Filco's plus they're easier to get ahold of and because they are essentially re-branded keyboards, their quality is top notch. That plus the audio function keys are pretty nice as well.

The filco I was looking at was the majestouch. Do you have any ideal when the 6gv2 will be available because it seems like its just the 7g but $50 cheaper and doesn't have a wrist rest or usb ports.

Dunno when the 6Gv2 is available but I don't use the wrist rest on the 7G and only really use the USB ports once in a blue moon when I plug an ext HD or USB key in (which I would have just put in the PC anyway) so for $50 cheaper, seems fair enough

I think I'm going to go with the 6gv2. For some reason when you look at the products on the steel series site it says its not available but when you go to shop it is and for $80 compared to $100.

Don't use USB for your keyboard.

PS/2 or USB?
PS/2 wins on three fronts: First, it supports full n-key rollover. Second, PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based. And third, it is impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices. There are two types of USB transfer modes - the interrupt transfer mode (USB polls keyboard, when key is sensed the USB controller sends the interrupt to the CPU), and the isochronous transfer mode, which reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards made that use the latter, because special controllers would have to be used, thus making it cost prohibitive.

So if your keyboard supports both PS/2 and USB, and your PC has a PS/2 port, there's no reason not to use it.

source

Dunno what you mean but the 7G has 2 USB slots in a HUB on the other side of it which you can plug a mouse or whatever in. But as I said, I don't use them very often except for the occasional USB key

I mean do not plug the keyboard into the USB port on the PC.
Use the ps/2 port.

Yeah I don't. You misunderstood me :P
The 7G has 2 USB slots built into it

Ah, ok, sorry:)

does the 7g connect to the computer via USB or PS/2 ? For keyboard use, not in reference to the usb ports on the keyboard itself, I don't care about that.

both

PS/2 but it connects with USB as well (I'm guessing for the USB slots).

It basically has a large braided cord coming from the 'board and then splits at the end with the PS/2, USB and headphones/microphones plugs

so umm, i have a usb keyboard that can also work on ps/2 by using an adapter. should i be using the adapter?

yep, that would be preferable

I went from a 7G to a Filco tenkeyless linear simply because without the numpad it's more compact and gives me more mouse space without moving the keyboard too much to the left.

Didn't have any complaints with the 7G, great keyboard and I will never go back to rubber doms.

It's a shame tenkeyless keyboards aren't more common. :(

can somebody explain to me why black cherry witches are considered better for gaming compared to brown ones ? judging by the specs this keyboard seems to be using brown switches while most "gaming" ones use black

The black cherry switches are kinda mechanical but very sensitive. The thing with the 7G's keys is that you can press them down all the way and they'll click or you can literally feather touch them 1mm and it'll register the key. Means you can either hit the keys really hard and get a nice feel or feather touch them and get another nice feel. That plus anything in between.

You just gotta try them out to experience the feel really.

Full Mechanical Keys for Superior Tactility and Faster Response
The Razer BlackWidow’s mechanical key technology provides a distinctive tactile feedback in form of a light pronounced tap to your fingers giving you an entirely new feel on your keyboard. With its optimized actuation force of 50g and a reduced actuation distance of 2 mm the Razer BlackWidow’s keys allow you to actuate your commands faster than on any other standard gaming keyboard.

this means for me that this board dont use mx switches. i think this should be ML switches.

2mm is the normal travel distance of MX switches and MX blue has allready been confirmed.

4 mm actuation travel - but the operating point is arround 2 mm.
stupid razerpromofreaks!

http://www.cherry.de/english/switches_control...-mx-en.pdf

operation point = actuation point = actuation travel

no. look at the datasheet. u can press the button down to 4mm. but the operationpoint is at ~2 mm.

actuation point and operation point are the same thing, it's just another word ;)

Features
The constructive design of the key and
the design of the associated keycaps fulfil
the ergonomic requirements for data input
workstations. Long operating life with gold
crosspoint contact and high reliability with
quick actuation. Optionally with integrated
colour LED decoupling diode or wire
bridge. 4 mm actuation travel.

there is nothing to missunderstand!

Never read that part. :D

But who really cares about terminology, there are data sheets where Cherry actually calls it "actuating point" and pretty much everybody with some knowledge about mechanical keys knew what was meant.

here is the datasheet from the ML keymodule.
http://www.cherry.de/english/switches_control...-ml-en.pdf

this are mechanical too but much cheaper.

i am not sure about it but i think the http://www.raptor-gaming.de/raptor/raptorUK/Produkte/k1.htm use this keymoduels.

K1 has blacks, iircs some early K1 also had browns

u are right. the K1 is like the http://www.cherry.de/deutsch/produkte/tastaturen_G80-1800.htm but with NKRO.

afaik it's even manufactured by Cherry

dunno why they're using cherry mx blues for a gaming keyboard, although that might be nice for typing

cherry mx browns would of been much better in my opinion

i would say black or red is needet for a gaming board.

but in the end it depents on what u like and get used to it.

You didn't get my point entirely.

They've chosen the best type of switches for typing, whereas the MX blacks and reds are best for gaming. Now, if they would want to do a perfect mixture of that, they should have chosen MX browns.

And going from MX blue to brown, seems a lot less radical than going from blue to black ( :

chinks make it for 3$ out of 0.5l of oil...or even less :D
dont wanna spend 130$ for a bunch of plastic

White widow pwn all

No cos it makes u fat

mediocre mice vs great mice = big difference
mediocre keyboards vs "great" keyboards = not so big of a difference

TbH

iMhO

Do you own a mechanical keyboard or ever assembled your own? I seriously urge you to. The difference is just phenomenal.

I had been eying the guruboard's Miniguru for a long time but that project got scrapped.

http://www.guru-board.com/

nope, never.

i just can't imagine any sort of a difference in pressing a button here, and pressing a button on whatever else. especially for that kind of money.

I didn't think so either, but seriously... the difference between mechanical keyswitches and things like rubber caps is huge. The rubber caps (things you normally seen now) just feel spongey, unresponsive, delayed and urgh. Mechanical feel... erm... AWESOME.

Once you try, you won't go back :P

Damn you made me horny about the SteelSeires 6G V2, gonna sell my Logitech G15 as fast as possible now : /

I used to use an old logitech media and a microsoft. Tried a few cherry ones and when I had some spare money and found a 7G cheap I just bit the bullet.

Funnily enough, the first 7G I bought actually was faulty from play.com. It was damaged in transit so that it was slightly bent across the bottom which meant that the key-cap's connection to the switches snapped very easily. For the time I had it, it was awesome though. Sent it back and had to make do with my old Logitech and it was like hell for a few weeks [ok bit extreme but yeah :P] It's not that I was doing any worse. I was still getting the same kills and still doing just as well; It's funny how something like a tiny-tiny-tiny-tiny delay can be really irritating and the feel is just urgh compared to the mechanical but as soon as I got the replacement, it was gaming bliss.

The Filco's are just as good but I like the Steelseries version for the audio keys on the function keys for volume etc. Basically, any keyboard with those mechanical switches are really awesome to play on.



Best way to describe it is to watch it though
The distance between pushing it down and it hitting I guess you could say the base is quite long but it's very sensitive so you can kinda just nudge the key down a small amount and it'll register the key. Means you can either rage and really hit the keys down or you can feather touch it which has a really nice feel to it

the problem with non-tactile mechanical keys is, that u either have to press the key all the way down, which needs more force than on a rubber dome keys, and is very loud too, or you can barely press the key, but then u cant be sure if it was enough to register.
I found a rubberdome keyboard with lowered key travel to register, superior to cherry black switches.

It's not like I'm thinking about whether or not I'm registering the hit. I can hit the key very lightly, hard or anything in between. It's just a very natural feel. Certainly a lot nicer then those horrible membrane keyboards

for typing, mechanical keyboards are a HUGE improvement

for gaming they certainly are not

Anyone who hangs around on geekhack.org would hate Razer or SteelSeries for all the right reasons.

A good generic cherry red switch keyboard is ideal for gaming coz of it's brilliantly low response time. OEM stuff FTW brothers.

:)

was waiting for a comment regarded geekhack :3

:) Mecca of the keyboard fanatics.

Give a link to an online shop where I can buy this generic red switch keyboard. Don't offer that compaq one that looks like 2 keyboards stacked together :l

Call these folks up so that you can atleast figure out the keyboard for yourself before you decide to buy it!

http://www.cherrycorp.com/webapp/cherry/Conta...;LocID=117

Switch customization is an option. You can go for black switches or red switches. Simply drop into the Products menu and select the keyboard you want. The G80-MX3600 for instance has the option for red switches.

Ahahaha Vedic getting raped in this thread.

Love it :D

Raped? That's not even close to covering it!

:D

http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/keyboards/D.../index.htm
Seems nice to me. Is it any good?

looks like a membrane not mechanical

How do you tell which ones have mechanical ones?
I want a slim keyboard like my logitech ultrax.

G80 have the MX Switches, others don't.

Razer has absolutely horrendous build quality. I can not for the life of my figure out how they are still in business other than the fact that razer has an amazing marketing department.

Anyone who spends even 60% of the full retail price on a razer product is an absolute idiot.

Are you really that disillusioned to believe the only reason for their sucess is marketing? If even 40% of their mice were complete fail, they would fall apart as a company (as they did back in 2001). I use and know many people who use Razer products which are still going strong years after having them. It's funny because I know more people with broken 518's or G5's than I do Razer mice.

Don't know enough people then :]

I've owned a Lycosa KB since it was released, and besides the usual button wear (which Razer's superb customer service was kind enough to send out 2 replacement W & S keys free of charge) it has worked like the day I bought it. I've even spilled a full cup of water on the KB and no malfunction of any kind.

rapid wash ftw

A straw poll of around 50-100 random people over several years is enough to give a statistical estimate, and that's aside from what I said about product failure (did you read the part about what happened in 2001? )

If even 40% of their mice were complete fail, they would fall apart as a company (as they did back in 2001).

I'm sorry but you just pulled that number out of your ass.

Look at steelseries, the only mouse working without major flaws is the Ikari Optical, while it is reported to have a high lod.

Kinzu is complete crap with build-in positive and negative accel, max. tracking 2m/s, non-flashable, heavy prediction, really bad mousefeet.

Xai has the buggy ADS-9500 sensor which has build-in positive accel and an odyssey of firmwares to fix all kinds of stuff long after the release.


With your 'theory' they should be long out of business. I can tell you why they aren't, and that's excessive marketing (without the products to back it up ofc).

probably cos they built the best mouse that you could buy for competitive fps games?

although i'm not sure why they stopped selling the original deathadder

Maybe they are still in the business due to their sponsoring for clans, marketing and this includes Razer girls....

Not that I really mind... But... WHAT?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4AltnrR9aU

mechanical switches?

Jep, MX blacks or browns, my source doesn't quite remember from Computex, but most likely it will have a pretty high price.

why not red?

dunno, ask Zowie

I get the feeling after posts and threads like these, mechanical keyboards will be the next gaming gear fad along with high-dpi mice, mouse-prediction and many others...


The depressing part is though, that mechanical keyboards are just awesome, so seeing affordable, easily available ones come on the market is kind of good... If they're reliable. That plus more people will find out the awesomeness of mechanical switches.

The point of mechanical keyboards is that they don't wear out after 1 year. After 12 months of gaming on my keyboards, the keys around WASD require half the pressure to press compared to the other keys as the membrane wears out.

you might well be right, but as you stated yourself: that can only be a pro ; )

though I must disagree upon the prediction, which really matters in my opinion

Well there's a certain degree of truth to the fads, but without people bigging it up most people didn't really pay attention to it. There were legions of people using Logitech mice with prediction that didn't even know it existed until people jumped on the bandwagon. Not a bad thing necessarily though

that can be... and it make sense. for a company its better to sell highprize stuff they can make much more profit with it.

http://razerblueprints.net/index.php/componen...ic,8729.0/

This keyboard uses cherry MX Blue switches, which are not as good as black or brown switches for gaming. Also, they come with the audible click click click which I find tremendously annoying.

Would have been a must-buy for me, but not anymore. This is going to be a turn off for a lot of people too. The sound of typing on that keyboard makes me cringe.

way to go razer, fail again.

"Cherry MX Blue switches are one of the best switches for typing. The tactile bump can easily be felt, and the resistance is about average.

Although many people find them just fine for gaming, some don't like the fact that the release point is above the actuation point. This can cause some trouble with double-tapping if you don't normally release the key completely."

source: http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals...guide.html

Although many people find them just fine for gaming, some don't like the fact that the release point is above the actuation point. This can cause some trouble with double-tapping if you don't normally release the key completely."

all MX switches have this "feature". so it can be that the ML switches are better for gaming.

Although many people find them just fine for gaming, some don't like the fact that the release point is above the actuation point. This can cause some trouble with double-tapping if you don't normally release the key completely."

This line refers to the MX Blue switches.

ok.. to make it easy.

the MX switch can be pressed down to 4mm but it regiester the "pressing" at ~2 mm. so u need olny 2mm push down for typing a letter. no matter what "color" the switch has.

blue means only u have a "click" at arround 2mm. so it "click" if u pass the pressurepoint.

and this is the reason why the mechanical gaming keyboards try to decrease the travelway. so that u can press the key only ~2mm down. and thats why i say it could be better if they use ML switches for gaming keyboards. curz the travelway is shorter and the ML switches are cheaper.

http://www.cherry.de/english/products/cable_k...yboard.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ko2TdqMgks

"way to go razer, fail again."

Oh, they didn't use the switches YOU like so it's fail? Get the fuck over it. There's tons of switches out there and many people dislike the sounds of all of them, that doesn't make the keyboard SUCK

It's being advertised as a gaming keyboard and guess what, a lot of gamers don't like hearing the loudest of clicks out of all the MX switches. I sure as hell don't. But thats what you get with blue switches :(

Anyways, that is beside the point. What concerns me the most is that the blues are considered the worst for gaming relative to the alternatives of red, black, or brown switches. When clicked, the blue switches have to be returned to their original position to reset the tactile click mechanism. So if you press keys quickly with very little finger movement at all, those clicks could very well not register at all.

This is why linear keys (black switches) are better for gaming, because you can partially press the key and hover around the release point, and snap off a lot of key presses quickly without much finger movement.

It's too bad, I really like the keyboard otherwise. Blue switches are best for typing... which is why you'll see the black switches in real gaming mechanical keyboards.

how loud are the other switches in comparison?

are the blacks silent?

http://www.viddler.com/explore/HotHardware/videos/69/

nice, thanks : )

looks like the SteelSeries 7G/6G V2 is pretty silent

Can't believe I just watched 3 minutes worth of a man fingering a keyboard...