material for the next http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1951967 \o/

Have a + my friend. ;)

why?

1. There is no "official mappool." With the current state of Quake Live, there's plenty of possibilities for altering map lists in tournaments. Of course, there are tournaments like the Intel Extreme Masters, which set the standard for some medium and high level competition, but you shouldn't call it an "official mappool," because there is no such thing.

2. Saying that ztn and dm13 should be replaced with levels that are simply worse is silly.

3. "almost tourney7 has been removed" wat?

4. "Tourney9 is my fav duel map." That's a huge lack of objectivity. I like t9, as well, I very enjoy the struggle there, which I think is quite unique on this level. But it doesn't change the fact that the map is simply boring, both to play and to watch.

5. "After all, I have been reading at esreality later on about removing dm13 and adding t9 back in. Also there are people who would like to see only new maps in official duels." That's just one of the point of views, not a general opinion of ESR users. And I also believe that it is a false statement that the majority of people want only new maps. But, I do not have anything to back up this statement, so do you.

6. "80% of people who voted there are from Quake3 community." Again, where did you get your data from?

7. Ztn spawns were altered in the last update, making the map very well balanced for the first time since Quake 3. Which you cannot say about, for instance, dm6, which is still imbalanced with the current weapon balance, item layout, and spawns.

8. What do you want to achieve? Setting a mappool that everyone's going to obey no matter what? That's just not going to happen. And even if it will, the decisions will not be made on the QL forums.

In general, what you described is just your personal opinion. Meanwhile, my personal opinion about your views is that they are extremely bad. Of course, your post is based on a pool, but this pool is pretty much outdated after the last major Quake Live update. And it doesn't speak for the whole Quake Live community, obviously.

edit: "I would like to see almost only new maps. All players will have to 'start' over. Players (q3 players) are too lazy to learn new ones, besides they will always stick to old maps and remove new maps. T9 as a new map should stay in every map poll." That's so stupid that I began to regret writing this whole post ;x

7. Ztn spawns were altered in the last update, making the map very well balanced for the first time since Quake 3. Which you cannot say about, for instance, dm6, which is still imbalanced with the current weapon balance, item layout, and spawns.


That's a bit far to go... What spawns did they edit? Just the GL spawn right? Now almost every match starts with one player at lower YA RL and the other at LG/mega...

The main problem with ztn was that if you were lucky, you could make a lot of spawn frags. The player that died very often spawned in the GL area, where he couldn't get to any big item quickly enough and getting out of a difficult situation like that was too much of a punishment for dying. Also note that the QL spawn system is turning off 40% (I think, but I may be wrong about the exact number) of the spawns that the enemy is nearest and spawns you randomly in the remaining spawn locations. With two spawns near the GL, the chance of getting a very bad spawn was quite high.

Two changes have been made. The first one you described and the second one is adding an additional spawn near the RL. And these two small changes balanced the map surprisingly nicely.

You are right, that is my opinion, but check comments here a lil bit: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1935464 - people want t9 back and get rid of dm13 :)

This might be my last post. I wanted to see POV of ESR community.

Tourney9 is my fav duel map." That's a huge lack of objectivity.

i laughed hard here.

mostly cos there is noone to discuss with @ quakelive forums

pewpew

"Current official duel map list is:

Aerowalk [imo OK]
Battleforged [imo OK]
Blood Run [imo OUT]
Furious Heights [imo OK]
Lost World [imo OUT]"

lol, so you're gonna remove the two best duel maps? i mean, i don't like them very much, i prefer aerowalk and dm6, but i'm not dumb enough to say ztn and dm13 are bad lol, they are nice duel maps, probably the best we have in the pool atm

I didn't say that those maps are bad. I just want new maps instead of ztn and dm13 in map poll and back t9.

The only reason to remove ZTN (or Aero) is if a better map comes along.

Now since versions of both these maps have been in map pools since QW I don't think that's going to happen any time soon.

Right. I was never Q3 player, never even played and if I started with QL I wouldn't like ztn. Probably it would have been T9 and T7. This is one example of a non q3 player (I like some of new maps more than old). Ye, map was played a lot or overplayed if I can say so while new maps haven't even been 'tested' so far. I would like people to give it a try.

t9 is plain random and stupid lol

No, it's not.

so gimme a reason why random noobs can put up a challenge vs pro/semi-pro players there?

There is no chance for noobs to even frag pros there.

lmao, so how do you explain me almost having beaten cooller there?
or daxio beating madix and so on? lol

I have beaten u there 35:0 and you almost beaten cooller while cooller beaten me 20:5. Dunno how to explain that. Maybe cooller's bad day?

Draxio is not noob on t9.

i've beat you there more than a couple of times also, so it's just random
was in a zotac cup that cooller happened to won , so he was in a good day
the map's plain random |:

U never won me on t9, besides what i remember there was always a rape (20frg) difference that I won. I dunno why u have so much against me now. We were friends before this post?

i'm not flaming you lol |:
i still love you <3
i think i beat you in t9 tho :((( maybe it wasn't you, i never really played the map so much

<3

<3333333333333333333333

Why not just make a circular arena with no pillars or anything, one player on each side with all weapons and armor. No corner fights, no timing, no traps, wouldnt that be great ? Well guess what, that's not DUEL.

If you want that play CA or so...

The whole point of duel is that you outsmart your opponent so you get frags, and the maps you want out are like the maps you cannot just rush like a monkey.

Agreed, but I didn't say I like map like that. Try to read again and try to understand. :)

you did lol, t9

Sure I'd like new maps, but if we ever gonna replace ztn or dm13 then there atleast has to be new maps with as much depth as those maps.
Besides those 2 we can have more aim/action packed maps, but we also need good brain maps :)

I was huge dm6 fan. This was the map I started with QL, second my fav map was tourney9 since I'm small map fan. But i'm glad that dm6 is gone and replaced with new map. Same should be @ at least dm13.

What you like or dislike is trivial, the only thing that matters is what's good for the duel community, and ztn+dm13 are definetly good, especially ZTN, you just cannot say it has to go.

Agreed, but tourney9 and dm6 are good too. For an example.

im only playing quake for a year or so and dm6 was also my fav map and maybe it still is but u have to agree its more than easy to spawn rape anyone on it

skill rly doesnt matter as much if i got the first frag right next to any item i can easily keep on forcing spawns as long as i want to and keep on fragging

u can control the whole map from RL upper deck

u can drop to MH and to RA when they spawn and frag challenging opponent + u can force him to spawn on the stairs right after to frag him again, go back to rocket launcher and c if he doesnt spawn at the bridge or under, if u doesnt hear/see him u drop down and frag him at the shards/LG

then repeat till u win

as for the t9 i agree it is a great fast paced map with a medium spawn rape rate similar to ztn

well they did put support for joysticks in the last update so i guess t9 can go back in??

n1 one

wyclef yawn

I would like to remove only Aero other maps are ok. T9 to go back : not gonna happend! :) Give all new maps instead bringing back t9.

Playing new maps for the sake of them being new as opposed to good is stupid.

Old maps are still in the pool because they're tried and tester and provide decent matches. There's no point in replacing them with new maps just to make it fair on newer players unless the new maps are actually decent.

well said.

I'm all for new maps. Hell, if they're good new maps, I'd happily let them replace DM13, ZTN and Hub. The problem is that out of the 5 map pool of today, the better matches are on the older maps :P

T9 was decent but kinda boring to watch after a long time. Aerowalk is a much better version of a fast paced map then T9. Perhaps because of the different tiers and railgun (providing the "wtfbbq look at that flick rail"). T7 is a bit fair to leave in since it's a bigger slower paced map but not a +back-fest like Battleforged.

In an ideal world, 5 map pool with:

- Medium sized, fast paced map (ala Aerowalk)
- Medium slow-medium-fast (depending on play style) map (ala Lost World)
- Medium sized, fast paced map with limited weapons (ala T9, T4, Phrantic)
- Large slow-medium-fast (depending on play style) map (ala Blood Run)
- Large medium-fast paced map (ala DM6 with more balance)

ATM
Aerowalk - Mid,Fast,Aim
T7 - Large,Slow,Brain/Aim
ZTN - All rounder
DM13 - Small, Brain
Hektik - Find out :D

but then after a while start replacing the old maps.
and I 100% agree.

The thing that irritates me is that we haven't actually seen any matches on Hektik/Phrantic/Focus Point from pro players.

If anyone has any demos, PLEASE upload them! And I mean of decent showcase matches, not randoms messing around :P

Ya but they have to be better then Battleforged.

define "official" please.

all those mappool discussions are completely dull.
first, people complain that there are not enough maps, now they essentially complain that there are too many maps.
premium/pro issue aside, i hope every tournament will have a different mappool now. variety is a good thing. if you're not able to learn more than five maps, go play dota or something.

also, the idea of a "official mappool" (which implies, that all tournaments would have to use this mappool) is totally idiotic. give the new maps some time: naturally, the good maps will stay and the bad ones will disappear again.
so stop discussing mappools or trying to compare maps. start discussing the strength and weeknesses of individual maps.

U got that right, but we can say its 'official'. In every bigger tournament the same map poll even on zotac cups. (Removed dm6 / t9 and added aero/ battleforge). Maybe hektik and battleforge are good maps. Why not give a try with totally new maps?

IEM is using

Aerowalk
Blood Run
Dismemberment
Furious Heights
Hektik
Lost World
Vertical Vengeance

t9 is pure shit. that's all i want to say :D

aerowalk
battleforged
bloodrun
dismemberment / hektik
furious heights
lost world
vertical vengeance

Not played hektik, but seems like it could get pretty one sided with mh and ra right next to each other like that.

Cant say Im that much of a fan of house of decay.. I think it should stay as far away as possible from any map pool. It is boring, tedious to watch, doesnt offer as many tactical options as the other maps and its seemingly more ping dependant than the other maps.

OT: Why do you have a Hamburg - Germany icon? O_o

maybe he likes hamburgers?

:D

ICH LACH MICH SCHLAPP – JA, WIRKLICH!!!

war ja auchn schenkelklopfer ! :D

dno.. just wanted to change the avatar.. and I like Hamburg :D

Hektik looks like a map that could be uber awesome in cpma :x Has anyone played it recently? I've played it once but not in 1v1. The item layout seemed to be a bit odd. Maybe some minor adjustments in that department and we are good to go.

here's what map pool should be played:
-t9
-ztn
-aw
-dm6
-bf
-dismemberment
-dm13

tourney4 (need one map without shaft, also t4 is awesome)
aerowalk (meh in ql, but at least not overplayed like ztn)
tourney7 (shit to play, nice to watch :x )
dm13 / t9 (need at least one map without rail)
bf (not as bad as ppl think)

WE ALSO NEED A MAP WITHOUT ROCKETSSS

how about a map with pummel only?


srsly :x

actually would be great fun :D

i'm not sure who it was but some well-known tdm'ers actually played 4on4 in test_bigbox aka the q3 gtv waiting room a couple of years ago :D

uhm focal point might be great in my opion...just replacing some items...
for example, the are two rl in that map: one rl in front of the mega, and another rl that is in a door in behind the mega. the ''door rl'' is totally useless imho...instead rl a rg should be...in fact if u play focal point u immediately miss the rg...try to believe :D
the pg is not so useful too imo, so it should be exchanged with the gl, then fp might become a great duel map, don't u think?

rotfl >.<