1/10, wouldn't rage again

ping determines teh tier that you play at imo.

With the new patch quakelive feels even more ping/aim dependant.

Guess i'll need to move house and geta decent connection again!

hm, I was thinking about something more profound: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1821748

BRAIN > AIM

i think some russian player said that once

\:D/

.

you dont get point about strenx. if not his lg, he wont even reach top16 euro , he knows his strongest game aspect and using it. he tryes improve tactical / brain game, but it's hard. If he could use more brain , he would not abuse his lg, but it's only his strongest side, he passed groups, he will reach top4, its bad? no, not everyone born to be #1.

The difference is physical vs mental. When you're someone like Strenx whos main strength is LG, his opponent now has a much easier time determining what to do to win. If you just avoid LG fights and control the LG from him, you've just screwed him over EXTREMELY. What is Strenx aim is off that day?

When you play brain, you're not going to have a giant flaw that can be exploited by other players. You can just play smart and play your game. It's bad to rely on a weapon to get a win. Yes, he does also play with brain, but my main point was brain > aim.

you are wrong this time. everyone knows how to play against strenx, not give lg and not choose lg fights, but in europe win vs him can just ~5 players max.

second. if strenx aim off , his lg is not 45% but 35% , its not still not bad :))

you are wrong this time.

Every time, actually.

ya honestly. he has good results.. far better results than most of the brain > aim fgts in here.




I'd take a good mix of both.

Doesn't matter, he gave up quake live.

Giving up Quake Live means...
1. MAKE A NEW ACCOUNT!
2. DESTROY NEWBS!
3. FEEL PRO!
4. Alias gets discovered.
5. Deny allegations.
6. Lose one game.
7. Recall how much you hate Quake Live.
8. Don't play for a day.
9. ???
10. MAKE A NEW ACCOUNT!

You are wrong, because Spart1e (Strenx's friend) don't use alias.
And if u check games he (Spart1e) plays recently, he don't play any french.

So it is clear, Strenx don't use alias, and don't play since 2 weeks.

I have checked, many others pros, they don't lose versus a new account player ...

hahahahahahhahahahahaahaahahalol

ok, find him ! ... what alias he uses ?.
it is not so hard to find him if he is playing ... because he is not like u, playing total newbies online.

hahahaha ?

I think he's laughing at you for being such a massively bored nerd that actually puts in the effort to look up QL profiles and do "research".


hahaha, lmao@u bubble

Yeah, it took me less of 5 mn to check few pro profils (stermy, spart1e, noctis etc ...).

How many stupid mn, you use to post all those shits at esreality every day ?.

Haha ?

I am quite sure that ounage is sparties account.

1 step short of a full-blown stalker imo

I wonder who nvrdie is

))))
good 1

not everyone born to be #1.

haha, funny YOU should say that :D

I'm saying it.. ?!

would you rather be talking it?

yeah because you're always 2nd place :D

was a joke dude

i know it was joke :)
my english..
word to word its sound like "I must say it", but I did it and you asking do it again... ah maybe you will uderstand me :D

<3

That's really a bunch of BS. Anyone can be #1. It's your fault if you're not.

I agree. But if you take the strenx vs cooller dm6 game for example. Cooller had to do quite a lot of work to beat strenx. Whereas strenx found himself in a really nice position just based on aim. Which is super lame.

It is clear that if you have a good brain, you will win. But cooller has one of the best, if not the best quake brain, and he did at times in that game struggle. Maybe quake is now 60% aim 40% brain as opposed to a 50% aim 50% brain(let's just say it was like that for this purpose).

av3k is making the most consistent correct decisions of any player I've seen in a long time (Not really watched Rapha mind you...).

So it's interesting that he lost to Calipt and Cypher, but I'll put that down to his play style being the most high risk but high payoff.

czm. Discussion over.

Toxjq, czm etc, hell even Zamuz is a bit of an aim player.

a bit? z4muz was _the_ aim player in Q3 before toxic

2005 newbies eh? :((((((

my bad carry on good sirs

Wrong! Z4muz is realy oldschool he was a good dueler loooong before tox even considered duel. Z4muz played allready back in the time when lakerman was around.

nvm

z4mus was at his prime long before cpma took over osp

he placed second at quakecon 2003...

are you sure you are talking about the same z4muz?

mixed up zstrider with z4muz.

Both put a fucking Z before their name instead of using the same name as the video game counterpart (strider,samus)
and are swedish

hahaha :)

suuuure you did. because we all know ztrider played q3 cpma.

yea he did and got owned hard and then quit for q4

stop trying to sound knowledgeable

hrm? i just type what i think i couldnt give a fuck what peons like you think about me or if i seem knowledgeable or stupid or whatever

ok, continue typing stupid shit.

or

b) you just don't know shit about something but still try to prove a point, like always


i'm gonna go for b)

cool story, broseph

he was on the 1st place team from sweden at eswc 2004

I only remember fooki, fazz, z4muz and fox at ewc2004.

my post would make a lot more sense if jamalz didn't edit out his post. XD

but i was referring to zamuz, not ztrider.

false oberservations analyzed by a subjective individual only can lead to two conclusions....
its not all black or white :s
try to look at the picture from an diffrent angle ,>

"false oberservations analyzed by a subjective individual"
is there any non-subjective individual? this is black and white thinking indeed, with this kind of attitude you dismiss everything if it said by a person. you did not base your conclusion (false observation) on anything else than considering that I consider everything black and white -I think you are in search for superficial persons, but you look too far away, and way too serious
the invitation was to think on the matter, not to enter psychanalysis. on the oher hand the inutility of your statement comes from my main post -that's why I was putting this problem under people's eyes and was saying something about evolution of players
try not thinking like I was pushing this towards black and white, of course there are many levels of stupidity (or smartess, if this expresion pleases you better), not everybody's the same, isn't it? -I hope now it sounds better for your power of understanding

"only can lead to two conclusions...."
very very subjective. how about three?

"its not all black or white :s"
I said it

Maybe the smartest way to play against you is to aim really well.

People with no aim but with some brain will say :
brain > aim, when someone like cooller wins against an aim whore (strenx, toxic etc)

People unable to think more than 2 secs but with some insane aim skills will say :
aim > brain, when someone like strenx or toxic wins against "brain based" players

But the reality is that, as someone mentioned above, it's not all black or white.

Do you really think that someone like cypher is all brain ? Do you really think that
someone like toxjq dominated the q4 days only cuz of his lg/aim in general ?

no

you dominate ca because you cheat

no (c) Vedic

oh hai thar mah dominatar :3

lol heartless...that demo was beyond obvious. how can you even deny that...

why should i say that i cheat when i obviously don't ? :/

you think what you wanna think, i give up, seems like i can't convince you. But at least let me play, leave me alone. Pls.

Quake is a shooter game. At the end of the day, if you aim better than 99% of the other players, you'll be at the top and you won't need to be a tactical genius for that.

We like to make up lots of theories about the game because we're passionate but at the end it's just a game where you aim and shoot :)

You can outsmart a guy like strenx all you want, if you have an average aim you'll still lose every battle against him because you can't do much against a steady 40% LG.

CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED?

Thank you. Finally someone with some common sense.

ESReality is filled to the brim with a bunch of pretentious nerds thinking that Quake is akin to calculus and brain surgery. Bulllllshyyt

Quake is so simple a 5 year old could play it. It literally takes absolutely no intelligence. What it takes is the ability to have consistent aim and the ability to repeat the same routine over and over without screwing it up.

So before all you einsteins get so proud of yourselves, realize an absolute moron could be a Quake champion.

what do you call "aim" in the first place?
if you focus on getting a good position instead of an item and then use your good aim to do lots of damage, is that not smart play aswell?

yes, smart play can result in good aiming, but I would not call these players 'aimers' ;), as they don't do constant 50% shaft and 50 mg whatever positioning and situation

"How do you outsmart 50% rail?" (c) HAL_9000

"ask cooller" (c) strenx =))

you dont have to

aim relys on practice, so does strategy :-(,
just different parts of the game,
people have different talents and normally they build on their strongest talent
in the end all you want is to win the match
if onesided play is more effective for a certain player, so be it.

Word

uh without a brain you can't do anything. So, saying it takes "no brainz" is just false. Just so happens aimers and thinkers are just using 2 different part of the brain. Which you classify as being better or more appealing is subjective. Just a matter of personal taste.

Yes, as scientists have shown aimers use the up part of your brain while thinkers use the bottom part. ITS SCIENCE

They think with their shaft.

amen! =))

Thinking with your shaft...
Better then fucking with your brain

yeah, sure, IQ is "just a matter of personal taste"

actually it can be. define iq. Ever here of the theory of multiple intelligences? i mean you can't be the dull.

The only path to knowledge is experience!
Who you become is highly dependant on your values. People prioritise certain things more than others. Humans can adapt to almost anything and do almost anything. All you need to do is be aware, if you´re aware of brainmatters that´s what you´re gonna prioritise.

But the biggest reason for majority of games in quake live being rather no-brainish is because people don´t take the games very serious. What I do wrong is getting frustrated that "retards" beat me all because they outaim me completely. But aim is the fundamental aspect of the game. You can´t kill someone without aim but you can without power-ups. The in-depth brain games doesn´t evolve until you take the game serious and you´re both on equal terms of aim and movement.

I´m just gonna play my game, practice, practice, practice and aim and movement will come with time. In time you will catch up on it and you´re gonna end up winning cause you can play smart.

Btw need practice partner with brainz!!=)

Aim and movement doesn't just come magically with time, atleast.. not the kind of aim that will seperate you from the rest.

You need to focus on it.

My advice to newer players would be to focus entirely on their aim, assuming they know the primary attributes of playing their respective gametypes then they'll develop aggressive routines.

Learning to play aggressive is alot more work than playing defensive in my oppinion, anybody can play +back. You're living proof as you're obviously not capitalizing on your oppertunities if you're getting beat by "no brainers that just outaim you completely". You can lose every LG battle and still win, if you take what you're given.

No, new players need to do the complete opposite.

Being aggressive and defensive has nothing to do with aim at all and it wouldn't surprise me if the people who are beating him on aim are the defensive guys (Defense is the best strategy up until the upper tiers especially if you have strong aim).

It's much more advantageous in the long run to concentrate on the overall strategy and situational tactics since this stuff doesn't disappear.

Aim and movement are physical skills which improve and decline with practice and the level needed to separate you from the best would only require you to put in more practice.

If you're successful against people with much greater aim than you then you're on the right track, if you aren't then you have to mix things up a bit.

If you concentrate on aim and movement, you'll obliterate everyone until you reach a certain level where it'll take monumental effort to adapt, things will no longer be as obvious or clear cut (Since the opponent has great aim too now) and you'll end up reverting to excuses like "I didn't aim well today" or blaming ping.

You become the equivalent of the combo master in a fighting game being dumped into the middle of a tournament, everyone can do the combos there but the games are rarely about combos it's about strategy and tactics.

tbh its not like that at all,i think that quake is matter of adapting, if u got good aim u can take advantage of it by practicing ur tactic + brain play which will give u edge vs everyone , prime example is cypher

Btw, Strenx just proved in ESL championship that anyone can be a brainplayer, it´s just a matter of awareness.

i think he proved his sens is too low and whilst he aims great with rail/lg all else fails

Lexer was considered as one of the smartest players and he was really defensive. Defensive doesn´t mean you´re just gonna hide throughout the game, you need to frag to win..

his rl and rail make me cum to this day but cooller outsmarted lexer by jumping at him in close fights n shit coz he knew the limitations of his mosue movement.

funny how lexer always beat him than :)
from WCG qualis to ASUS to ESWC

I think you'll find the match ups close in the earlier days then with cooller edging it. Qcon 03 onwards

If playing all aim gets you the win, then that's the smartest thing to do.

Simple as that.

play however you enjoy playing. If winning is the sole purpose of enjoyment well do whatever it takes to win more often. If you can just out-aim and win a lot then do it, a lot of the time it will take timing items and positioning to win more often.

I've noticed this before.

I always know why I've lost, but there are people out there who don't seem to understand their mistakes and often whine about luck. They tend to be players with good aim who seem to think that should win them the game. Foe example, one player complained that he "always loses against noobs" because he out aimed me, but played really stupidly.

''it's not all black or white''
a historical phrase? it's sure it's a true phrase...
actually in ql brain>aim, if 2 players have the same aim but different thinking capacity, the player with the biggest brain will win...
but if u have no aim but alot of brain, it's not sure u win against some1 who has no brain...
the same for the brain: if u have no brain but alot of aim it's not sure u beat some1 who has no aim :S
best way imo is not just mastering ur aim, but be careful to improve ur brain, because the brain in ql is probably the most important aspect of gameplay.

i suggest everyone read this comment above out loud.

and you then read it out loud again, and replace the word "brain" with "dick"

Someone heard me and asked me what I was reading :/

so you never stopped reading the english dicktionary after all

now every time i read brain i think dick :(

and every time you read dick you think brain?

suck my brainzzz, zzombie!

this aim/brain discussion is more retarded than the whole quakelive forums

cypher can outaim anyone and does he lack brain? NO

this brain bullshittin was introduced by cooller only as an excuse

quaker should develop both brain and aim to become good on every map

still id rather become brainless aimer and play good on whatever map than a so called brainer who can only do good in the well known and trained environment

Aim>Brain , more fun that way ;)

People just rename a +back player as an brain player.

GaRpY is the smartest player ive ever seen, and if-22 was the king back in the day

aim vs brain dichotomy is stupid as fuck

on the other hand Ivan Sidorenko considered that aim vs brain lobotomy is kinda cool

just shut the fuck up

I don't have any Lo expectations from you, ma'am

wefreahtulkoi;op;ljhjmghnbvz hnfz 65dm,9m78

I think aimers are like good-looking women. They don't need to be smart, funny or nice... in such a world, they can survive well-enough on looks alone.

[+]

maybe

damage. don't take it.

alltho i think the "brain"-ish way of playing is more respectable, i find it very very satisfying when you get a kill on the guy with control just by hitting those crucial 4-5 rockets in a row while he misses everything, or shafting him away while he falls down somewhere.

to the whole aim/brain discussion, i find it retarded to call it "brain". people should just say intelligent or smart play.

whooaoaaa hold phone buddy, 1 syllable or less plz k?

best aimers don't need to aim at all

smartest players don't need to think at all

that's all.

... and best players do not play at all...

best fuckers do not fuck at all

they don't play,

they "live and breathe video games" ;D

since most peeps in here havnt got the brain capacity 2 time 2 differnt armors this discussion is fuckin funneh !
___
ham

The fact just is that when you are good on something you will usually base your whole game on it and try to improve that aspect of your game while it would be wiser to focus on weaknesses...

sure, usually players try to improve their best ability, but imo is better if u're more balanced. this is why my aim's not bad (whereas time i played), and my brain is decent. but this is by necessity,cause I can not rely on my aim because of my ping lol, so i can't just improve that :S

It's all about balance.

Give Cooller 60% rail and its probably over unless your name is Rapha.

That's just overpowered. This is why cooller and rapha aim worse than everyone else, to make it even.


STAY FROSTY MOTHERFUCKERS.

What. Cooller aims fine.

Not in upper brackets, though.

Since when does cooller EVER "aim worse than every one else" ? WTF games are you watching? This thread is going towards the direction of a pissing contest. The fact is, if you don't have more than decent aim with more than decent strategy, you're not going to win matches.

Every professional gamer is miles beyond the average gamer in skill, both aim and knowledge/strategy. I think people need to realize it takes a balance of both to win games, doesn't matter who your opponent is.

Strenx / cypher/toxjq/l1nkin/spart1e etc

all out aim cooller..

His shaft is terrible compared to a lot of the top players, his rail is strong though.

He may not have the absolute best aim, but to say every other player out aims him is a bit harsh. He's no bot, but cooller has sick aim in my opinion.

I think you are confusing great aim with great weapon selection.

example:

You are playing dm13 and you go to pick up the top YA, the enemy set up an ambush but you didn't know.

Great aimer: Goes in with plasma, gets ambushed and shot in air with rocket and has back to the wall so he can't escape. The great aimer hits 7 plasmas straight and kills you.

Weapon selection master: Goes in with plasma, gets ambushed and shot in the air with rocket and has back to the wall so he can't escape. The weapon selection master shoots 3 plasma shots, knows that his aim won't be able to hit the rest of plasma - switches out to shotgun hits 100 damage shotgun to kill you.

That is the diff imo.

The aimers are strenx/toxjq/stermy/

The weapon selection masters are rapha/cooller/av3k

Cypher can be both of these, nigga is incredible.

lol, av3k won't switch to another weapon, he will fuck you up with plasma like no one else :P

just an example though... since its plasma sure he will go down trying to own you there, but when he does get into such predicaments, he would use his superb weapon selection to come out on top.

Just look at some of his t9 games where he survives on like 5 health after each fight. During the fights he just switches so many times from rockets/plasma/lg all in the same fight, just to win.

Just like cypher, they can read situations so very well with weapons.

Are you dumb? Cooller hit 5 consecutive rails in 15 seconds vs rapha on t7 at gamescom. And they were ridiculous shots

To be honest I would say he's top 3 best railers in Quake Live. Just cause he couldn't aim rail in Quake 3 doesn't mean he can't in Quake Live, he is a very very very good railer.

He had two impressive rail games, that t7 game and a ztn vs draven where he was at 80 percent rail.

The problem arises that his aim is inconsistent as fuck, so he can never actually rely too hard on it to win games.

He hit that many rails on Rapha and STILL LOST, which is pretty bad.

He lost vs cypher because of his rockets at quakecon were very shit.

There's two types of aiming in these games.

Realtime and planned (i.E. you're positioning yourself to have the advantage in conjunction with timing armous etc, you don't know where you just know its going to be around here in x time). You're talking about one aspect, most insane aimers lack the other part in comparison.

But the problem with quakelive is, it uses played out maps for a lot of the time, so it can be very difficult to innovate and fool an opponent because even if he has worse strat than you, if the map isn't rocket science its going to be harder (or essentially impossible) to fool him, to the point where realtime aim can be an advantage.

That's why for me quake can show its flaws and why they should have used new maps and added some new gameplay mechanics to push some new scenarios.

LOL

It's popular to just dismiss certain people's views on this site in the matter you just did.

But in some cases it will only show your own lack of brain capacity, like in this one.

Since he is actaully right , certain aiming angles etc do become routine rather than skill.

So yes lol indeed, but not at him, at you instead

LOL

... youre not amusing to anyone really.

Either you just cant do better or youre a troll in denial, either way i'm sorry for you

Or you're so dumb you're not even worthy of this reply. LOL.

troll in denial it is

I agree with you. Look at Rapha vs strenx on dm13, every battle is planned by Rapha, strenx can't get a good 1v1 lg fight vs him on that map at all, unless Rapha fucks up.

Same with rockets Rapha has very planned traps.

Now look at dm6 vs them, Rapha will still win, but strenx can force lots of LG fights and beat him at them.

IMO, Cypher and toxjq are the best aim players, since they can aim realtime aim in any situation and come out on top. Even if they get trapped, they will still probably out aim the trapper and win.

Cypher's very smart weapon selection allows him to do this. And toxjq's extremely precise mouse aim will allow him to survive.

They should add doublejump :\

Aim>Brain : online

Brain>Aim : lan

why would aim get less important on lan?

Hard to say, but when u see Strenx (a player more aim than brain) when he is playing online ... he seems really smart (the king ?).

But in lan he is like too much stupid to play guys like Rapha, Cypher or Cooller etc ...

imo :

Aim (60 %) > Brain (40 %) : online

Brain (55 %) > Aim (45 %) : lan

imo Strenx fails at LAN because he's not in his usual environment (chair, table, screen, etc.). When you see him playing online games, he really seems to "feel" the game well. His movements, aim etc. are a lot smoother than on LAN.

I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of being comfortable with all the different settings on LAN.

I'm basing this theory on my very short LAN experience but I remember I had a very different feel of the game when confronted to a different chair, height of table, distance to screen, etc.

Maybe in the future he'll get enough experience to adapt his game so that he doesn't need to be 100% comfortable with his settings to perform like usual. I hope so tbh.

being able to adapt to these things is part of being a great player. some players constantly have to adjust things at lans and play at the same standard almost i.e. using lower fovs to adjust to monitor. Strenx has too low a sens, relies too much on aim and simply hasnt got the patience to match the raphas cyphers coollers.

Agree with u, about the "His movements, aim etc. are a lot smoother than on LAN".

its easy to point out people who rely on aim. just ask how their lg accuracy or rail accuracy was that game. they will usually say it was terrible and that they have never aimed that badly

Ive noticed alot of ql players who aim v well yet cant strafe jump, ive also notice alot of players saying are you xyz from ut2k4

go figure :D

hahaha :D

aim = brain.

THEY ARE NOT SEPARATE

OMG

Everybody knows you use your brain to aim, but this thread is about how people use their smarts (Brain) to their advantage, or their aim to win.

From your point, Strenx is just as smart as Rapha, and Rapha can hit 45% LG.

The day will come when people aim with their brain.

dissapointing
at the time I opened this thread (IEM competition from january or smth like it was running right then) people used to talk abt whether strenx is just allaim or not, it was pretty much connected to that event at the time so it did not intend to go into alltimes philosophical rhetorics or hard time meditation. eating right now what was fresh six months ago can be very dangerous to your health. nevertheless, bon appetit!

but don't worry. it is never too late to upload family pictures on esr, the community is emotional involved with you on the matter

nerds...