quite bullshit. ofc p1 is played most but its as often played as c7 in 4o4.

edit: im still missing the [-] button :|

LOL

I support the "play more maps" thingy

I don't support 4on4 tho, EU history of 5on5 on medium and large maps shows that NA zone played it 4on4 but EU zone always played 5on5 and I like 5on5 myself...

4v4 - Bring it Back, Safely.

Put the Flag back to 4on4, PUT IT BACK! (c) almost arnold

Agree 100% with nvc

Riffy

lets hope this thread wont become another 4o4/5o5 whine topic :F

oh wait..

yes get rid of 5v5 ctf asap, if u wanna practice without a ctf team u must play #qlpickup.eu.. no comms to sync attacks and 70-80 deaths with half of them being pointless fights u didnt wanna take but u got forced into.

in the other thread ctf players with a lot mroe xp than me already said more maps are suited to 4v4 and at least u can play more than two pickups before u are simply bored of dying 80 times to just lose 7-0

if you didnt have to fight it would be called find the flag

and where did i say u must avoid all fights? play a few gam es and get a clue and if u already did then dont even reply

ctf is better when its fast guerilla warfare, 4vs4 is slow and boring, it should at least be 8vs8, teams can split up into 2

shock and awe from 2 sides, or leave 1 half of the team behind in defense

Legend.

i know, should play q43a 16vs16 with si_killreturnsCTF 1 with a 12 pack

yall can kickass on q43a CTF 8vs8. just made the server CTF, and all working perfectly, with no glitches etc

yall can play q4 CTF properly for the first time

-ary.

That's the weird thing...

People ask me: hey add 5on5 to the pickup, so we did that, but I did not remove the regular 4on4 !add ctf option, yet the majority adds to the 5on5 game.

err...............

(and yes pickup is not competitive play, but most players who play pickup, do it because they don't want random online ctf with pubheroes and get some gameplay going that is as close as it can be to competitive play, so no whine about "pickup" itself please)

should play q43a 16vs16 with si_killreturnsCTF 1

did you ever get militia to run properly?

yup, i renamed it to q43a, has a 16 slot FFA server running for you all to have a game on and then still call shit

server info : http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1949742

cool 4v4 coming back

The vast majority of these "oh noes 5on5!!" whiners never even enjoyed 4on4 when it was the standard? They've just moved from whining about lack of maps to whining about 5on5....if 4on4 returned it'd just be back to "siberia sucks" again.

Maybe they just need to leave the scene......

NA has always preferred 4v4 afaik. It's the Euros who need to make up their minds.

Why isn't this thread titled:

NVC CONCLUDES 5V5 CTF SUCKS, BRING BACK 4V4 CTF.

?

FTFY

agreed.

[nvc]

5v5 CTF in the EU seems to involve a lot more chasing, so I really don't see the point of having two extra guys in the game.

The main difference in pickups is that in 5s, one or two guys spend half the game in their own base or mid shooting people. If that happens in 4s, it affects the offense or defense a lot more. In 5s it basically just makes the map cessier.

Plus the maps are designed for 4v4.

do you even play ctf?

we want 4v4 :p

Like I said many times, I still think the only reason that sparked this renewed 4v4-versus-5v5 discussion is the addition of CP1. If only CP5 was added we wouldn't have this problem, because everyone knows that map is complete shit.

Guess the 5v5 crowd has got a case of nostalgia-goggles.

I love my nostalgia-goggles.

2v2 FTW

Actually no 1v1 is the ultimate test of skill

/kill

do prefer 4v4 but not arsed I kill u all the same :D

4v4 makes sense from a team point of view (insert whine here about TDMers playing CTF) and it's the old team/individual skill approach

The less people, the more individual skill, the more people, the more teamwork required.

4v4 is a pretty healthy balance, but then what do I know? Never played 5v5

the more people, the more teamwork required.

the more people, the more zzzzz games are produced.

You kiddin' bro? I'm sold on this

5v5 has its place for pub games.

As always, Shiningforces (CP5) is still fucking horrible. 4v4 or 5v5.

f1

why can't it be both 4v4 and 5v5 dedicate some maps that are larger 5v5 and the more smaller ones 4v4

Kinda retarded from a team aspect. For example, if a gaming clan has 4 members for TDM and want to use them for CTF, they'll need to add a 5th player, and when a 4v4 map comes up they have to choose one player to piss off... Which is a bit harsh.

i think it adds a bit of strategy of which player to choose. who do you leave in the guy who can aim and kill or the guy who can run better?

Maybe you're viewing this from the wrong angle. if someone gets pissed off he obviously isnt someone id want on my team as he wouldnt be a very good teammate.

Suppose it would be funny since you could use substitutes or something, but it just kinda overcomplicates shit

i don't see the "over complication"... unless you don't want think that hard about who/what map to choose.

as most things are pick/drop you could use this to your advantage if you know the other team's 5th isnt that good of a killer/runner and call a 5v5 map. On the other hand if you feel as though you can just out kill the other team you might call a 4v4 map to use to your advantage.

I kind of like the idea.

5v5 is better 4v4 was only around cos yanks didnt have enough players.

I like this thing called midfield you know?

pff any ctf sucks without grapple ;)

4v4>5v5 period

This is why Euros should never call the shots when it comes to Quake. #spontanq4ctf still plays 5v5 and it just don't work.

And, yeah, Castles sucks. Spider and Camper are the best WCP maps ldo.

5v5 is better for CTF in any quake. Particularly Q4.

Umm, no? Q4 1.4's fast enough that 5v5 is stupid when you play a formation like 2 O, 1 O/mid, 1 D/mid and 1 flag D (or replace one of the mids with a 2nd flag D; usually doesn't matter all that much which mid becomes a flag D). Or, worse yet, the leading team being able to turtle with 3 D and yet is still able to pull off somewhat effective attacks with 2 O so that the other team has a hard time countering the extra flag D. Not to mention power-ups are less valuable in 5's because there are more opponents around to attack the quad carrier or the stacked EFC who just beefed up on regen and armours.

I can only imagine how this applies to a game that overall has more powerful weapons and is much slower than Q4. Maybe 5's would be good for CPMCTF, but Q4? Pfft.

What's wrong with 1 def, 2 mid, 2 off?

Anyway, 3 def never works in Q4 because its more important to control mid than the base due to the speed of 1.4.

The prime reason 5v5 is better is because its an odd number for each team. This provides the attacking team always with an advantage because they're pressuring the enemy defs heavily. In 4v4 you can only attack with 2 most of the time and enemy def will be stacked too much for you to get flags out. The only way is to secure powerups. At least in 5v5 you can cap with a coordinated attack, without even requiring much armour.

Nothing is wrong with any formation. But you have to consider next:
there are two teams playing... so both formations/couter formations are to be discussed if you open that aspect of game.

Then what's the point of even having those power-ups on the map then when they only spawn 10 times a game (excluding OT)? Playing solid CTF, let alone TDM or any team gametype, should be about item control as well as formation and timing attacks and so on. And when all the weapons are spawning so often and there's so many armor shards and health bubbles on most maps on top of enough armour/mega to immediately stack two people and now medkits in QL, well, it should make quad and haste that much more important to control. Offense is supposed to be hard to play because the defense is supposed to be hard to crack through.

That's all true, but the same rules apply for 4v4 and 5v5.
That's evident in top tier games ending often in 1 to 3 caps per game max.
On the other hand, you can say it's much harder to control with less players in both teams, or maybe just this:
Ctf maps are sligthly bigger than average teammode map (CA excluded). So to cover larger area with same vigor, a slightly bigger stack that also happens to be in the other team is more dynamic, and consuming

4.5 vs 4.5?

everyone add 1 tier 3 bot to their team, i hear xaero's mid D is as good as jones.

somebody call osp player fanboy is ironic

What's the matter with 5v5? not enough items? not enough 1v1 battle? more chaos and more fun? deeper metagame?.

4v4 was introduced in the US because there were not enough q3 players anymore to play 5v5 on a daily bases, and not because it's better.

if you don't like 5v5 CTF, the gametype what you are really looking for is probably called DUEL:)

ps.: but I admit, 5v5 can be much worse with clueless players than 4v4 , but that's about those players and not about 5v5, you should start looking up all those "old" 5v5 div1(or div2) OSP-CTF Euro-league games to understand what 5v5 really means!

Explain how a more chaotic game is supposed to mean more fun for everyone. Some people prefer activities that are a bit more orderly, and besides that, we're talking about a competitive format for CTF as well. And, also, are you really implying that having one more player per team should lead to "deeper metagame?" Could you talk out of your ass any more than that?

First of all, congratulation! what a nice person you are!... I wish I could be your friend!

It's the same thing as timing more and more items. The difficulty to know where each player of the NME team could be at a given time just exponentially increases with the number of players (like timing 5 items instead of 4)..
5v5 CTF can generate much more suddenly events, where you just get surprised by an NME, and surprises are mostly fun things .
Also the team can shift tasks like putting more players on offense or defense, or just reallocate task on the fly to adapt to the situation. (like in football for example). In my opinion these possibilities are much more "restricted" in 4v4 CTF, ergo 4v4 mostly means less tactical possibilities, and a more "simple" game .......etc etc

If this all not enough, perhaps I may try using my mouth as well next time, but looks like you are perfectly on the same level with my ass so far.

more suddenly events, where you just get surprised by an NME, and surprises are mostly fun things

RANDOM

go out more?!!!!
and look around how nature builds up everything from fractal..all is in order (beautifully) and nothing is random about it, you just don't understand it's structure.. perhaps the same applies to your gaming experience?

Taking what you are saying further, we should be playing with as big teams as possible. There will be even more tactical possibilities!

Sadly, with games played with uneven players this just descends into random gameplay. You will never have sophisticated timing attacks with 8 players a team in a FPS game.

it's really depends on the players and the map ... In "osp times", on xs4all public, we had awesome 8v8 ctf games at very late nights when all the kids went to bed .. and I'm not exaggerating, literally awesome games on most of the 3w maps (wcp9, 14, 22, etc). All the div1 pros where there (faking), and after they kept saying 8v8 sux, but still they came back every single night for many years .. it was that bad;)

But tbh, competetive wise 4v4 and 5v5 is enough.

quakers always make me sad, 200% nostalgia and no common sense. pld a 5v5 pickup recently on siberia and it was WANK

needs more 4v4 in all teamgames, and new maps only...

Thank God for Australia where fuck all people play wcp1 in pub or pug ... Although ctf7 over and over and over is only so fun.

I don't know who you're playing with, but every time I play CTF, Jap Castles gets played atleast 2 or 3 times!

CTF is always the worst game mode of any game filled with the biggest dickheads

i think CA competes for more dickheads.

Good point

Think you'll find ictf has the best scene.

jap and shining are really quite boring, guess it was just the quake 3 nostalgia that made me wanna play them so much.

totally loving ctf2/7 with a 5v5 format.

The only time I had fun on wcp5 was the 3w grapling times:) but I had quite a lot of good games on wcp1.. Its a tricky thing, many ppl hates wcp14, and still I had so many good games on it or also on w3, w7, wcp15, wcp18, wcp22 etc...with lots desperate last second caps/holyshits ..
on the other hand ctf2 and wcp9 are awesome maps, and still most of the osp-ctf div1 or NC finals where 1:0 on those maps.

ctf7 is just brilliant, period.

ITT: newfags v oldfags + random idiots.

I have to say, having played a few more pickups then usual recently. 5v5 is a bit more fun in terms of just chilling out and playing in pickups n shit.

But from a spectator and team-based POV, 4v4 is much better tbh.

australia, south america, northern america all play 4v4... its just europe who has a splitted community now lets plz go back to 4v4 asap thnx

Fuck oath.

bump

whos behind this

nVctf?