Looks shit at the end, tho.

as if you can actually see anything;P

Useless tossers!

and the next day the same kids will complain about late trains.

these fuckers deserve some rubber bullets.. what's the point of this crap?

if you can't respect what you take for granted, you should be deported in Romania for a while.. you can spray paint here all you want, trains ain't good for much else around here

yeah, I remember an episode about that.

A colleague asked me to pick her up when she came back with the trian fro bucuresti to constanta. Used to German trains, I wasked when it was scheduled to arrived. She just looked at me blankly for a few seconds, and told me she would call me between 3 and 5, whenever she thought the train would be less than 30 minutes form the station. :P

last time i took a train here was from Bucharest to Brasov (166km).
ticket said 3 hours, but i arrived in 4. that's 41 km/h! should've taken the bike..

Bike, yes.

But I actually drove a car to Brasov over a week-end. I would have been exstatic about going 40 km/h in that ****** mountain pass. :<
Especially with people trying to overtake in a traffic jam by using the shoulder.

beautiful country innit :D

visiting Brasov and the surrounding mountains was worth it, though :)


It's a very beautiful country in parts (Danube delta was great, too), but it's main problem is that it is full of Romanians ;P

agreed, too bad i have to put up with the embarrassment everyday

While that may be true with time inconsistency, I need to point out that unlike most modern trains in western countries, you can still get a sleeping car in Romania and pretty much every where else in eastern europe. And that my friend is something even Euro Star can't beat with wireless internet and a bar.

that's because it takes a day to travel between opposite corners of this country.. might be fun once, but when you really need to get somewhere it's not an option

there's quite a lot of places to visit around here, but if it's not in decent car reach, i say fuck it.. and i won't take a plane to visit my own country (which is fairly small) when i could spend that money to fly around Europe

There could be more, true, but you can get one to many locations in Europe, but only overnight trains. http://www.bahn.de/citynightline/view/en/index.shtml


But I wonder if the demand would be really high during the day, as you either arrive quite fast, have to switch trains or booked a really slow train to pay less.
And for long routes flights are much faster and often cheapers, as aquashark pointed.

hahahah maybe cause you don't need to sleep when it takes 2 hours max to get anywhere?

Or just normal bullets

fucking austrian gangs.

Damn those ausie backpackers.

Their joblessness product is, tbh, pretty ugly.

aha nice, 2 min wholetrain :p

Useless twats.

I hope the Police catch those retards.

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I guess they knew what the reaction would be, so question is... why bother? On the plus side, the next time that train driver runs one of them down as they give up their meaningless life, at least he can laugh when that pumpkin sound hits his windscreen.

After seeing an increased amount of policemen around the central train station here in Essen, I thought in the first place about actual "bombing" as in explosives, and not meant as in this context.

yeh I came here for the flying body parts, so disappointing :<

woot? what's up? am going to need the RE1 to be on time later! :/

if someone blows up essen hbf it probably looks better than it does now :>

Oh yeah man...Its one of the ugliest trainstations i´ve ever saw.

At least they have changing lights, and not anymore that blue dimmed light, which reminded me of an Aral gasoline station! xD

P.S.: Saw today more armed policemen there carrying guns, very similar to, if not real, MP5.

same at Koeln last night, wondered what was up

http://www.google.com/images?q=MP05&hl=en

It's not as ugly anymore imo? When was the last time you've been there?

september i guess and it was just one big construction site :>

why are they destroying property? anyone?

adrenaline rush but they didn't destroy the train just repaint it. it's still stupid bc it looks even uglier then before

nice, 2min flat!



http://straightfromthenorth.blogspot.com/

cant see the point in just drawing letters would be better if they actually learn to draw

that's embarrassing how ugly that train looks and that they still post the video :x

haha awesome :D couple of posters here seem clueless ;)

do tell

yea clueless about why it was made in the first place. when the vandals were at their weekly meeting presenting pie charts and early scetches, i doubt the word "quality" and "detail" was in their mind so it really shouldn't be measured in any artistic scale. and zeriton pointing out the absence of possibility comment and respond to the video like it would have been their sole purpose to do this for youtube. not. it was just a whole car done in two minutes in broad daylight. BOOM. there's the beauty of it. if you can't appreciate it, you are clueless by vandals' standards.

edit: also i just realized what the phrase "do tell" is for. sorry for replying you with this :)) didn't recognize you without the maple flag

this.
it's pretty incredible they were able to do this in germany in fucking broad daylight. plus, who does decide how a train/a wall should look like? i realize it's pretty bad example at that but i take some good street art over the n'th variation of retarded advertising boards everywhere.

What's so incredible about it? It looks like the car is in the middle of nowhere. Not like we still have the Gestapo on every corner of the street in Germany.

I can appreciate the logistics of such an 'operation'. But they could have seriously made more of it. It does look like shit in the end. And I don't care if I am clueless by a 'vandals' standard.

ofcourse not because you are you and want to judge other people by your standards and not to understand them. if you understood why they did it, you wouldn't try to force it to your small frame of mind. and this act obviously doesn't fit in there.

no, you only see the middle picture.

in truth they are just showing how much they and everyone, who likes what they do, are failures. Unfortunately, your brain is not big enough to grasp.



So, how is arguing through insults working for you?

failure by who's standards? go choke on a corporate/institutional dick. i don't what is a/the "middle picture" so can't really comment on that.
there are different ways of looking at this, different subjectivities and you and others are unable step outside of yours because that would mean breaking the conformity.

cute

you can't understand those standards as you are are trying so hard to be the cool anti-authority kid.
So don't strain yourself.

Meanwhile, let's just see how you'd react if some kids decide to figure out how long it takes to spraypaint a computer including the monitor and select yours as the test object.



In the end, the wannabe cool kids congratulate themselfs of standing up to the government and corporations.
While i realty, the government and corporations don't give a fuck.
The only guy who'll care is the poor underpayed sod who has to spend days cleaning the train.

What a success.

what you don't get is it's not about anti-authority or anti-anything. it just is. it's a whole car done in 2 minutes.
this exactly what i'm talking about. your needs to confind something in strict definitions. by your logic any act that breaks the current set of rules is "anti-authority". but if you don't take the authorities into consideration, then it's not anti-authority. you are unable to think outside of authorities.

sheesh.

What you don't get is that I have been mocking you for the last posts, because all you do is say what you believe and then declare everyone who disagrees couldn't possibly understand.

here's an example of what has happened in this thread:

somebody presents the new model of a formula 1 car. it's a fast car. then somebody who clearly doesn't understand why formula 1 cars are made says "but it can't make you a double espresso, now can it?"

so the car is a nice thing for anyone who can appreciate fast cars and completely useless for a person who enjoys his coffee.

just replace the car with graffiti and the coffee with modern society's laws

what an exceptionally bad analogy.


Let's start again:

Someone made a video of peeing on your carpet ...
[please continue]

you just don't get it ;)

yeah, I always thought the people who want to "abolish the system" and "work against conformity" more often demand tolerance than being tolerant themselves.

either/or. tolerant or non-tolerant. conformity or anti-conformity. box1 or box2.

please elevate your level of intelligence.

this is how you entered the conversation:

By Finland paras1te :
haha awesome :D couple of posters here seem clueless ;)

so what are you trying to say?

That you behave just like the companies and governments you want to criticize.

how so?

you only value your own opinion and try to discredit that of others.

if you read my posts i haven't criticized any corporations or governments here. i'm criticizing people who don't think for themselves and just adapt to other people's values.

and isn't arguing about validating your own opinion and discrediting the of others?

i'm not arguing if the act shown in the video is right or wrong. i'm just pointing out that you and others are incapable of seeing it in any other position than if it's right or wrong thus missing the original point of the act.

See and I am not sure whether the people in the vid even know what their point is, or if they just wanted to see if they can do it.
In either case, I would argue there are better targets.

Perpahs but the target makes this much more challenging. So yeah, awesome. The odds were against them and they pulled it off.

You have never been on a train like the one on the video in Germany, have you?


They will sometimes stop at "stations" in the middle of a field. Pull the emergency brake (0:20 in the video) and that's it, the train won't move for some time. Looking at the fog it's probably very early in the morning, so not many other passengers, who could interfere
It's not really a huge crime so the police will most likely not give it the highest importance and rush to the scene at high speed. And even if they did, if you select a station that is remote enough they will still need quite some time.

In conclusion, I really don't see why the odds are against them.

Yes i have been on a train like that. Yes i know how the emergency brakes on a train work.

Maybe saying "the odds were against them" was wrong. Maybe i should've said "they found a way to turn the odds for them, awesome"

yes, they did (not that is was such a huge challenge)

But even then I'd prefer it if they did something that didn't end with other people being late or having to clean it up after them.

ok. you do a 2x10m graffiti in 5 minutes with your friends on anything. then post here.

I suck at doing graffitis (tried that once when I was 14), so I'd rather not do that.
Also, I don't think your demand for me doing something illegal and similar is hardly justified. I use the very same justification to demand that you go and do a graffiti in five minutes with your friends, or else you can't how if it really is 'awesome'. Stuff doesn't work like that.

As for doing unusual things, I could look at my graduation:

For our graduation "gag" in 2000 we organized a firetruck with a ladder tand used it to cover the front of our school with bedsheets (inspired by Christo obv.).
It was also our turn to organize the annual music festival with around 5000 visitors, which is free of charge, so we needed to aquire the funding through parties etc. Of course more people participated in that one, so I won't go and claim it all for myself. Just I was a part of that. Doing something different for people, not against.

it can be done legally. and you weren't talking about it being awesome. "being awesome" is pretty much about the viewer. but you said it's not challenging. so i challenge you to do the same. buy plywood or paint it on the side of your own house, your parents house, your mates house etc. just do it and come back here with the results.

First of all: You were the one who claimed it was 'awesome', not me.
Secondly, I'm sorry, but that's just a really bad argument. (and not only because doing something for the first time is different to a group that obviously has experience)

Would you say it is challenging to plow your parents front lawn?
Would you say it is challenging to ride on a train for an entire day wearing a bathrobe?

According to you, you couldn't just say that, but would have to do it an post a video of it.

And I could give endless more examples of things that aren't challenging, but a lot of hassle to do...



That is why people think about actions and try to evaluate factors what would make them challenging or easy.

i know it was me who said it was awesome. this is not the point. you said it's not challenging and when i asked you to do the same you somehow mistook it as proof of it being awesome. hmm. can't really say anything more about it.

and of course it is easier for them than to you. that's why it is challenging because it took them years to hone their skills to that level that it's not difficult for them to do it. take usain bolt for an example. running 100 meters is not hard and certainly not complex. but it took him years of training to run it under 10 seconds. even better example would be a LAN party demo comp. there are strict restrictions what you can do with such limited resources and by any modern day standards all outcomes are crappy as hell. but it's still amazing what they are capable to achieve.

and no, i wouldn't say those things you described are challenging. but then again i would imagine even i can accomplish those things by first try. so i believe you that those things are not challenging.

but what i don't believe is you can accomplish what the guys in the vid did with first try. and that is why i think it is challenging. if you want to prove otherwise i suggest you make a video just like i described. it doesn't take a video to know what is challenging and what is not. it takes common sense. how many times have you heard or seen a 2x10m graffiti done in 5 minutes?

ehm, I could do the whole thing in 5 seconds if he used the same video skills that they did.

I mean I kinda wondering if you maybe did not see the various cuts? So I have no idea how you arrive at your "5 minutes".

But interestingly enough, all that you seem to argue now is that it is awesome, to plane an area of the size in a relatively short time in a group effort. Correct?

as for the end of your post:

but what i don't believe is you can accomplish what the guys in the vid did with first try. and that is why i think it is challenging.

If that is true, you are very easily impressed. I mean would you also watch a video of a professional painter paint a room in half the time you would need and then go "Wow, that's awesome".?
If you do, then I finally get your standpoint.

. it doesn't take a video to know what is challenging and what is not. it takes common sense.

Exactly. The bad part about common sense is, however, that everyone thinks he has it.
So that's why people use arguments when they disagree.

that's why i've said 5 minutes not 2 because of the cuts. it's just an estimation. i really don't know the exact time.

i could also say about a game of quake that it is amazing and awesome and yeat there still would be people wondering what's so special about it, but it wouldn't make what i said wrong.

but then again i'm not arguing about if it's awesome because that is simply a question of flavors. i'm talking about how challenging it is. the reason you mix this up all the time is apparently you think that anything that is "amazing" or "awesome" has to be challenging.

me: "but what i don't believe is you can accomplish what the guys in the vid did with first try. and that is why i think it is challenging."

you: "If that is true, you are very easily impressed. I mean would you also watch a video of a professional painter paint a room in half the time you would need and then go "Wow, that's awesome".?"

awesome =! challenging

so please explain to me how this is not challenging and how you would measure challenge. sometimes the simplest of things can be challenging

challenge "difficulty in a job or undertaking that is stimulating to one engaged in it"

i guess you would have to be "engaged in it" in order to really understand the challenge. so i urge you to do the same. please.

yes I agree, it would be challenging to repeat it for someone who has never done it before, if that's what you want to hear.

But that wasn't the issue here. You didn't write "I bet that is challenging to do." in your first post, but instead "haha awesome :D couple of posters here seem clueless ;) " and later "there's the beauty of it.". And that is what made me reply.

So yes, I agree: challenge != awesome or beauty.

Which is exactly why I kept brining up the word "awesome", as that is what you wrote.

it is awesome. for me :D try to defeat that. you already tried by saying that it's not challenging, and yet it is still a challenge for you. for me even too. i understand why it's not awesome for you, but can you understand why it's awesome for me?

let's face it, 99% of graffiti looks like shit and is generally made by idiots and preteens. this is no exception.

why are you trying to generalize this to all graffiti when i'm talking about what is happening in the video?

is this not a grafitti? or are you suggesting the only reason this is awesome is because it's painted on a train?

no, but because the way it was done.

so the art is not important, they could've as well all taken a shit on the train and it would be equally valuable for you?

i have not seen a graffiti made of shit. i think that would've been even more impressive. more stupid and yet more impressive.

like i have stated before: considering the conditions and the time invested in doing this, i think the outcome is awesome. it may not be the best graffiti i've seen but the quality they achieved in such little time, nice one.

ok stupid = impressive. say no more.

i was about to make a joke about your nick originally intented to be tourettes, but you spazed too much to write it right.

now im guessing this is actually true for you have not sensed the sarcasm in my reply.

you're impressive.

you aren't

thanks

maybe you should read all the posts. i've been through this

"even better example would be a LAN party demo comp. there are strict restrictions what you can do with such limited resources and by any modern day standards all outcomes are crappy as hell. but it's still amazing what they are capable to achieve."

lmao. They could've saved time by bringing paint buckets and just throw 'em on the train.
This is not graffiti, this is vandalism.

And I know the difference, because I see fucking beautiful whole-trains every day, since I lived nearby one of the graffiti-capitals of Germany and still live in the area.

You are trying to defend idiots here, not artists in any form.

the whole cars you see have taken much more time than this.
and you are right they could've done it faster. maybe you should step it up a notch and do what you just described.

And this is nothing but vandalism. Not graffiti/art.
Of course good whole cars take time, but isn't that, by your definition, much better than this?

I mean, I can open Paint right now and draw you something ugly in grey and green, would you be impressed?

there's this dude in finland. this dude has been in the scene for 20 years or more. his work was one of the best in finland and in my opinion he's now the best. one time he decided to do oneliner throwups. it was the most simplest throwups i have ever seen and didn't look anything spectacular but i still could appreciate the simplicity in it's creativity.

in other words it's the way it was done.

That is something completely different. These guys are just covering a train with spray paint.

Creative simplicity is always appreciated, but this is nothing but vandalism.

i disagree

Just to get this straight: You think that what the guys in the video did is art?

everything i can appreciate has to be art? every graffiti done illegally is vandalism. and every graffiti is art. there is crap art and there is good art. but i'm not appreciating this on an artistic scale. if this was done on anything else than a train, it would still appreciate it because of the way it was done. how many fucking times i have to point this out?

if you were to give me a picture of this graffiti with no explanations what so ever i would assume they broke into trainyard and had hours to work this and i would agree that yes it is a piece of shit. but as shown in the video, this is not the case and i think its awesome they came up with this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL7VeB-8DNA

this artist's pictures are not amazing and he would be fucked if he had to draw an asymmetric picture, but because of THE WAY IT WAS DONE, it's pretty cool

you have a pretty condensed sense of art if you think only the result matters. maybe you should go back to 1800 century where you would feel right at home.

You're a little naive.

naive as in i don't have to cram everything in my life in small little titles and boxes in order to appreciate and understand them? :(

No, in thinking that pulling this off is some sort of huge anti-establishment effort. These are just kids who want to show of how "brave" they are. It's a tram in fucking nowhere. No one cares, no one ever will care.

Also I could drive to Dortmund Central-Station right now and show you dozens of beautiful whole-cars, that are not green/grey-blobs, thus being WAY more dangerous in the execution.

i spend this much time and posts to make myself clear that while it may be an "anti-establishment" act, i'm not applauding it because of that. like i have stated before that becks and the likes of becks (you are on that list now) are too narrow minded to see it in any other form than "anti-establishment" and "vandalism". i'm not arguing about wether or not these statements are true.

so should i go learn english some more or should you just stop sniffing glue?

edit: I DON'T CARE IF IT'S OR IF IT'S NOT AN ACT OF VANDALISM OR ANTI-ANYTHING. THAT IS NOT THE REASON WHY I THINK IT'S AWESOME

What is the reason? I usually scroll down long becks-discussions, so I didn't get it yet. (sry mate <3)

What is awesome about this?

because of the way it's done. like zillion times already. because of the way it's done. group effort , effectively and fast as possible.

Okay, I don't see the huge effort in stopping a tram in the middle of fucking nowhere to cover it with paint for 3mins, but hey ... each to their own I guess.

You are pretty easily impressed. :/

it's not even about the tram. maybe i was impressed because have not seen anyone do that before and wasn't expecting to see what i saw. it's just a new way of doing things. it's not that it's amazing because its impossible or hard. i'm just too dull minded to have come up with something like this. now that it's there, it's easy to say that it's not so hard. but nobody else came up with the idea.

Uhm, ... isn't this like .. the sheer concept of whole cars? Do it as quickly as possible and in the best possible way? There's nothing new about this.

I don't know how big graffiti is in Finland, but around here, especially in the Ruhr-Area/Area around Dortmund, you kind of grow up with the whole concept even if you're not at all involved.
I always did and always will love graffiti for what it is and I appreciate the beauty of it, but this is nothing but useless crap.
Couple of adolescents showing off their "machismo". Very nice.

yeah no, i have not seen or heard a whole car (theres two cars actually) done as fast and like this.

Because real artists don't produce shit like this and show it off.

There's no actual video of people doing this, because they're aware of the consequences probably, but take a look at this.

How, do you think, is this done? Not like the Deutsche Bahn asks them to paint their trains really.

#155 - What is so awesome about covering a train in two colors? I just don't get it. :(
There's nothing new or fresh about this.

you can ask that about anything. what's so awesome about bunch of guys slamming a puck to the net on slippery ground while they try to break each others bones? don't know but millions of people seem to think it is. you would just need to understand it.

what's so awesome about slamming your prostate into a wet hole for 20 minutes just to have a feeling of satisfaction for 30 seconds?

if you wanna simplify everything to that level, then go ahead. but it must be a depressing life :(

Both examples do not work and you probably know that.

Appreciate good graffiti and not vandalism. Bye.

Illegal graffiti is always vandalism, good or bad. There is no magical scale where in one end there is vandalism and on the other good graffiti.

and yes, it's new and fresh.

No, it's juvenile and ugly. You can hide behind "fresh and new", but ultimately everyone knows this is just anti-establishment bravado, which has no value except for the little logistics involved and perhaps the firsthand experience.

i'm fed up with you guys just jumping on this and not having read any posts i've made

"I DON'T CARE IF IT'S OR IF IT'S NOT AN ACT OF VANDALISM OR ANTI-ANYTHING. THAT IS NOT THE REASON WHY I THINK IT'S AWESOME "

and I AM NOT JUDGING THIS BY ARTISTIC MERIT

What is awesome about this?

"because of the way it's done. like zillion times already. because of the way it's done. group effort , effectively and fast as possible"

Honestly, think why this was done.

And even if what you say is true.. what the fuck is impressive about covering a train in paint with a squad of your buddies on some backwater station?

what is impressive about b2r? nothing anymore but when it was done, it's nice. this is a circle. quit it.

I don't understand. Bridge-to-rail is a useful trick, perhaps one of the first a quake player learns after getting the hang of strafing.

This "train bombing" has the novelty factor, but nothing else!

a ferrari is useless if i want to make a cup of coffee. bridge to rail is useless if i want to finish my homework. should i continue? i think we've been through all this "different things have different values for different people in different situations"

This is too much for me. :@


Yes, bridge to rail is useless if you want to make a cup of coffee. And "train bombing" is useless whichever way you look at it.

and again i'm not talking about train bombing, i'm talking about the method in the video wich was used to bomb the train. you can do that on other things than trains.

I cba to explain this to you anymore. Hf.

maybe that is because you couldn't? it's hard to explain an opinion that wasn't produced by your own mind.

You continue to spout the same line over and over. Value is subjective. Well no fucking shit! I didn't know.

that's because you keep saying that it's "useless". useless to you, not useless to some other. so it really doesn't matter that you think it's useless if others find it usefull

I find it useless, so I say why. That's the point of the conversation.

ok. nice one. thanks for your unasked for opinion on this :)

edit: "doing something new if there is nothing of value in it is worthless. " your opinion brought nothing new to the table. every aspect you have pointed out already has been discussed.

and it's not useless to people doing train bombing :)

and i didn't claim they invented a whole new formula. they just made it faster and more efficiently.

just like the game of quake. the concept is the same and the content doesn't change (much), but still players better themselves and others year after year coming up with more clever moves and tactics. and the longer something has been around, harder it is tome come up with fresh stuff.

dm6 bridge to rail. everybody knows it, everybody can do it, but i'll take my hat off to the guy who came up with it first.

b2r is useful. Ugly grafitti is not.

To reiterate: doing something new if there is nothing of value in it is worthless.

the graffiti is the value, not the quality of the graffiti (to you yes, for them not)

your whole life has no value for me so are you worthless? because i can pretty much swear it has value for your parents. how would my opinion about your lifes value effect you in any way?

To reiterate: value is very, very, VERY subjective.

Of course. I think it was stupid, you think otherwise. We try to explain our viewpoints so perhaps we can change each other's opinion.

true that this is your viewpoint "b2r useful, ugly graffiti is not" but what followed after that didn't explain it. you just talked about values, wich doesn't explain anything and everything. everything has value for someone and anything has no value for someone. so you can explain your viewpoint but you have not done it yet.

What is there to explain? b2r allows you to get a rail easily from bridge, quite useful imo. There is nothing of worth in ugly graffiti. It accomplishes nothing, it's not new, it's not pretty and it's actually quite stupid for some of the reasons becks mentioned.

Some people like to smear themselves in feces. If someone's goal is to cover themselves wholly in shit in 2 minutes, good for them! Totally fresh and new. I still think it's stupid.

There are worthier things to do in order to get an adrenaline rush than cover trains in paint.

what you don' realize here that i'm not trying to justify this act as a whole. i enjoy it on one level and that level is the way it is done. the way it is done is new and fresh and even though it has no value for you, it still has value for me. and yes the way it was done is useful for a person who makes graffiti.

I honestly doubt what was their motivation. Why would they do this?

Even if I were to accept that this was the easiest way to show off this questionable skill (that they simply don't care about the consequences), there is really nothing impressive about this.

was i talking about their motivations? or why i think it's awesome.
and again. you doing a bridge to rail = not impressive, somebody coming up with the idea that you can actually do bridge to rail without pg/rl = impressive.

somebody coming up with the idea that you can actually do bridge to rail without pg/rl = impressive

It's impressive because b2r is useful.

a ferrari is useless if i want to make a cup of coffee. bridge to rail is useless if i want to finish my homework. should i continue? i think we've been through all this "different things have different values for different people in different situations"

circle circle circle circle

THE METHOD SHOWN IN THE VIDEO IS USELESS IF YOU DO NOT DO GRAFFITI. in that case you should shut the fuck up about now

here's some more art for you to appreciate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist%27s_shit

am i appreciating the art or the method they were using? get back at me as soon as you have figured it out

or did you mean "i don't value this, but you do". if that's the case, then i agree

to you maybe, but their goal is to make a graffiti, so this is irrelevant.

"Age: 25"

Time to grow up perhaps?

what should i do in order to grow up?

conformity, learn it.
this is not how a train is supposed to look.
what would happen if everyone painted whatever they wanted? (a non-boring city, for once).

"They (ed.: the companies) expect to be able to shout their message in your face from every available surface but you're never allowed to answer back."

conformity, as in complain about the big fucking train corporation that doesn't even manage to keep their trains on time?
Or as in thinking of the people who have to clean up the mess that some kids leave for minimum wage?

Or maybe conformity as in thinking abouthow much you would like it if someone put a fugly grafitti on your private care?



Nah, better to be conform with the anti-establishment people. No regrets, ever. Fuck yeah.
:/

this is going nowhere but i'll give it a try.

i'm unable to complain about trains not being on time because i don't have the money to buy a db ticket in the first place and so does the "majority" of people.

who's paying minimum wage here, the kids or the deutsche bahn? what would happen if there were no graffitis to clean up? don't tell me you actually believe they would be paid better - or at all in this case.

a fugly graffiti? paint it over, go ahead.

you are right this is going nowhere.

First you complain that the train is to expensive (not really believable with the weekend ticket, but whatever), then that they should pay more for their employees. Nice double standards.

Also good to hear that you don't use trains, so it's not your problem if someone else is late. Awesome attitude.

Oh and what usually happens is that the cleaning workers "just" have to work harder and stay late to clean it up. That's great.

Then you say that people who don't want an ugly car should "simply" spend time and money for painting it. Money that just a moment ago you said you don't have yourself. But I guess you don't own a car, so it's not your problem either.

Luckily the scene is a lot further than you, as apparantly they don't see cars as acceptable targets in the first place.


You know, I'm pretty sure you don't mean most of the things the way you wrote, it, but this far you are propagating the right of a few to do what they want over the rights of many.
Isn't that exactly what bankers are accused of?


Last statement in this thread, graffiti has come a very long way from the underground to accepted art, to companies actually hiring graffiti artists. So that "fight" against the establishment, that gives that cozy "us vs. them" feeling can only last on as long as the targets for graffiti become more extravagant and forbidden, and as such most likely hurts someone in some way, money, time or something else.

I don't give a rat's ass about bridges or industrial plants being painted. But some targets are just idiotic, as apparantly the sprayers didn't stop for one second to think about the consequences.

I mean, I have heard of train companies holding contests to having great-looking graffiti on their trains.
Not some ugly shit like this.

what the hell. you put all this stuff in my mouth i never said and spin it around once i try to answer, you're jamerio'ing this thread.

i actually got a car and it's cheaper than using the db in most cases which is pretty sad in itself. i don't give a shit about trains being late or not and can't be bothered to complain about this, no idea why you even brought that up.

if you don't like seeing people getting paid next to nothing and treated like shit complain to their employer. those kids have nothing to do with it and neither do i.

i'm not sure why you went from trains to walls to cars, only thing i can tell you is what i did: painted over a wall when i couldn't stand what was written on it.

someone sprayed "ADOLF SHARON" with a star of david dripping in blood on a wall. both had to go along with the swastika next to them.

i'm not part of any "scene"(?), i merely enjoy street art where ever i go. i meant exactly what i wrote: how you came up with the conclusion i would put "right of a few to do what they want over the rights of many" is beyond me.

leave the bankers out of this, you're just creating an even bigger mess. how would you know who i accuse of what?

butthurt jew

ok, I guess we can't let it end like this, especially since I do like you in general. :)

what the hell. you put all this stuff in my mouth i never said and spin it around once i try to answer, you're jamerio'ing this thread.

if you are talking about the "conformity" part, I wrote that because I despise attacks basesd on that. It is simply way to easy to accuse someone of conformity, without even needing to back it up (-> Totschlagargument)

if you don't like seeing people getting paid next to nothing and treated like shit complain to their employer. those kids have nothing to do with it and neither do i.

that is only half true.
Yes, the company makes their contracts. But I would imagine those contracts are something like an eight hour standards shift, if the train is clean when it comes in they can take things slower. If it's dirty they must work harder.

It is very honorable that you painted over that shit, but it wasn't what I wanted to point out.
If you basically allow everyone to paint on everything (not only ugly contrete bridges and such stuff) the people with the money to buy paint and the time to do it get to dictate what everything looks like.
That would be ok, if there was come rule that only cool and great looking graffiti was 'allowed'. But that obviously an impoosible deamdn for various reasons.
But they way I would imagine it to turn out in reality, I would not like it for one second, cause I have no doubt that everything would be littered with tags and badly done graffitis.

But in the end, I need to ask, what is your point?

Should graffiti be allowed everywhere, which is what your comments sound like to me, should it stay as forbidden as it is today (read: much more lenient that 20 years ago, when naegeli went to prison) or do you have some mixed solution in mind?

i'm not going to touch anything else here but your arguments about the cleaning :DDD ridiculous. you are complaining that the cleaner god forbid have to clean? and the shitty wage is the fault of the vandals? like the wage is going to be the same even if the people had to work more? bullshit. more work = more money. besides (don't know how it is in germany) we have special cleaning companies doing this work because it's a different thing to sweep some trash off the floor than to use industrial type of equipment and chemicals. it's their sole purpose to clean that. if graffiti is neutralized, so is their source of income. so don't try to use guilt because of the oh so poor cleaning people :'((

ok here is a riddle for you:

Someone tells you that you have two hours to clean a room, and you get paid by the hour:

Scenario I) the room is clean
Scenario II) the room is dirty


Now answer two questions:
A) Which scenario is harder work?
B) In which scenario will you receive more money?



About your other point, having special companies for such difficult cleaning jobs.
How well do you think that fits in with saying that train rides are so overly expensive?

yeah i'm not saying anything about expensive train rides.

and your scenario is pure illusion

how is my scenario an illusion?

can you give me one real life scenario where a person has been given an unreasonable deadline to clean graffiti?

can you give me one where German train cleaners did not work as a shift?

a shift yes but i think that people still have some kind of sense what can be accomplished in any given time. especially the people working in graffiti cleaning business.

well, afaik they do have to clean up graffiti tags inside of trains inside their shift.

usually in jobs like that there is some rule, like for example: a team of 6 workers needs 3 hours on average to clean one train.
don't know how sucha bis graffiti would be handled, though.

If a special company is being hired then of course that money will be added to ticket prices.

And that's still ignoring that someone might have been late for something important just because the train came in late. You know, kinda like colleteral damage.


Anyway, that's all been said here before, so how about we call it a day?

yeah i don't argue with that, but guilting with poor workers not a valid argument

looking back at some of my posts in this thread i realize what you mean. i'll be nice from now on, promised. after all you're not exactly the reason for the mood i'm in.

a weekend with more emotional turmoil than my little brain can handle, a monday full of friends phoning me up telling me how much i fucked up... i'm feeling a little stranded here, heh.

back on topic:
i'm tired of arguing for now and only wanted to point out the sheer stupidity of telling someone to "grow up" if he doesn't (want to) conform to the values of the society he's living in. as you said, those values are a subject to change.

i'd love to see graffiti become "legal", i'd so be on the corner handing out pens & cans. in the end the ones caring the most will put the effort into it, here's hoping for some self-regulation.

well, I hope you get things in order soon.

and you sure are more of an optimist than I am considering the self-regulation. But who says being optimistic is a bad thing! :)

yeh, i want to see you stopping a running (live?) train with 10 of your friends in skimasks and have the guts to stay around and paint it :p

you seem a little clueless about the risks involved.

As I said, I can appreciate the logistics of this and pulling it off.

Gotta love ESR. Everyone just questions everyone else's intelligence.

not really. train in the middle of nowhere, have a friend or two on the incoming roads watching for cops, that's it. oh, and you need to be a retard.

Figuring out a plan how to do it, is hardly a challenge. And having the guts to fo through with it, isn't that impressing either. if they selected a good location the risk of getting caught is very low.
'd say every shop lifter or drug deale rin a public space has more guts.

The only thing I can appreciate about it, is the creativity of coming up with the idea. That alone doesn't really provide a reason through with it, though.

ok. you have no idea what you're talking about and are obviously not interested in what they did, why comment on this?

now you are just assuming things.

but to clarify. I don't have any problem with well done graffiti, especially when back in the day the scene only allowed an old graffiti to be erased if the new one is better. Sadly, the mssive increase tagging kinda destroyed that. :/

But a good graffiti needs time. So doing it really fast as in case means a bad result is pretty much certain.

also good graffiti's on contrete bridges and such actually improve them. This one covers windows and doors, so it's safe to say some underpaid cleaning people will have to clean it up.

On top of that they stalled the train for quite some time, so there is a realistic chance someone missed a connecting train or flight or something.


So, there are most probably better targets for a similar action, where less normal people suffer the consequences.

So, if paras1te and you don't want to consider all the implications that I guess that is your choice, but simply going with the "oh you brainwashed, conform people don't get it" personal attack is completely unjustified.


only related a very little bit: two of my favorite video artists: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KdQ4aV4eB4

My experience is that Dutch graffiti is the best around, so probably those idoits could learn from the Dutch first in order to make their graffiti less ugly.

enlighten us

Terror warning in germany...
First time ever I saw a german police officer with a mashine gun, and guys trust me he was more scared about his gun than any person there.

pics?

Yepp in my head.

What does this have to do with Anarchy?

http://www.gamereviews.com.ar/wp-content/uplo...Anarki.jpg




?

germans, twats online, twats in real life :)

well, at least we are driving on the correct / right side of the road ;>

but you drive too fast :sadface:

i live in the "ruhrgebiet", the highways around here are more like a giant-sized parking lot :/

useless shits

Everyone who thinks the police should catch the writers, shall be put in prison for a long time and think about his wrong thoughts or been shot at with rubber bullets or normal bullets at least once!

its a bombing, nothing more, nothing less
the amount of stupid discussions this video has created is astonishing

/thread

you should know better than that ;)

<3

</3

:'(

:D:D:D

would probably have made my day sitting in there

everyone go telling their friends like old women chat about strangers

and talk talk talk about it because there ain't much else to do

anyway,

I would've done a better job

not painted the windows and chalked up the colors

finger painted auto-graphs without any slang

The people arguing in this thread are fantastically fucking stupid. It's fantastic.

great that you could join us :)

wth happened to this random offtopic thread? O_o

give it fucking double chrome cans :p

i have appreciation for pulling this through.

for germany it also has a decent amount of boldness. witch is the best part about it.

btw, they must have had a couple of more dude on guard, since they seemed pretty relaxed.

Ok, I have a solution... just let people 'vandalize' the trains. Really, who gives a fucking cunt if the trains have paint on them? Will it adversely affect their function? Will it prevent people from getting a to b? What the fuck?

How about we come and 'vandalize' your house, flat, shed, whatever? Doesn't make much of a difference, does it?

some sprayers painted a doubledoor on a train just like the regular wall with windows on it, and made a new "door" nearby by spaying one over wall + window. in the end no one could find the real door and the new door wasn't working as it was just painted on a wall, so the train company had to put up a sign saying the "door" is broken so people wouldn't just stand there all confused. so yeah, it can prevent people getting from A to B :P

Seen that one. :D

*facepalm* It must be have been a really good painting then :)

Source? Image?

http://www.lachschon.de/item/89182-sprayer/3/

Astonishing!

It's nice to see that Scotland isn't the only country full of pikeys. It probably wasn't good enough to justify losing their anal virginity in prison for.. :P