Note that much of the argument me and Scoots had was a misunderstanding regarding having only one PC stream instead of two.

Doesn't really justify his behaviour.

agreed

scoots menstrual raging again

true

^slasher ftw

Niceeeeeeeeeeeee, edit: SirScoots is acting like an ass atm. QuakeLive would grow with these new tournaments, it would get alot of viewers i feel. Also calling LVLup low tier? They've had the best quality of stream, commentary and live updates in direct comparison to the LO3 guys? How about LVLup do the stream for MLG? People would donate enough money for lvlup to travel to America most likely. Kenniget sounded pretty stupid, maybe he should realise part of the reason that starcraft is popular is because it's Korea's national sport?

I think it might just be the Euro/US divide honestly.

Let Scoots blabber all he want, I know we did the best we could with the limited resources we had and I also know you guys loved it. That's all that matters.

That's a good outlook to have :D

limited resources what, you out-shined those with unlimited resources.

This.

It wasn't like something was lacking due to "limited resources". It's been the best coverage of a quake tournament I've seen thus far, in every imaginable respect.

Ok, admittedly the regular commercial break and/or sticking a MSI laptop into my face has been missing. But I believe I can happily live without that, specifically when that very time is used for thoroughly entertaining chitchat with players.

word bro!

[+]

regarding to DHW you guys did an awesome job. Let's not forget about stermy.tv with matteo

+ you also know the US guys haven't done a decent coverage in ages (first and foremost, ql.tv @ qcon). so even if you did bad, it wouldn't be worse then them. but you did awesome so... :D

Why is lvlup low tier? They provide great broadcast, their casters may not be the best but are still miles better than qltv not to mention getting pros to shoutcast and don't take a million years to upload vods. I gladly will let lvlup broadcast quakecon 11. Their coverage of beat it and dreamhack was excellent.

because of nvc

Low tier in how little money was put into the production. It was a bunch of great quake dudes with two microphones. I don't believe in any way that he was referring to the quality of the content lvl^ produced. Which was especially awesome taking how few resources they had available into consideration.

Don't be too butthurt from his choice of word and in stead listen to what he was actually saying with it. I couldnt find anything negative in his comment.

It was popular in Korea, not the other way around.

I wonder what high tier is to this joker

And I wonder how many tiers he has below "low tier"

I had actually forgotten about this lvl^ comparison before seeing these comments.

lvl^ did an amazing job at DHW. I'm Quake biased but I had more fun on the Quake stream than any of the other games, including SC2 which had a truly epic finals and day9, and some great cs with rakaka. The atmosphere (and drama) allowed for an assortment of players to cast, give insight, shoot the shit and joke around. DHS and ESWC also went great with huge numbers, helping them organize the latter, none of this was ever an issue at least with me. Of course some gripes sometimes but I complain a lot.

At the same time in defense of Scoots, wheat and I, that's a ridiculously absurd statement. QuakeCon 2009 with us 3 + tosspot I can argue was the best streamed/coverage QuakeCon ever. First (and last?) time ever to have broadcast booth and casters be on main stage, live crowd shots and cheering during the finals, John Carmack live interview, two full days of nonstop coverage. No internet the first day no fault to us, much of the same problems which happened to qltv this year. And then the EG Masters Cup earlier this year live from Scoots place in Phoenix. VOD's uploaded decently quickly always. You can argue Wheat/Tosspot/myself vs Joe/2GD till you're blue in the face but I think we're all awesome :D.

Wow all of this is way too long, but there ya go. Back to more interesting topics: QL I think if MLG/WCG were to have the game (more MLG because its an open tournament and the possibility of more than one), and the right players came, there's a strong chance it could rival Halo and even Black Ops or whatever they're going to do in live viewers.

You seem to confuse what you want to do with what people want to see. The good news is that you're not alone though.

Actual numbers say differently, but you keep talking

Still more confusion? The lack of alternatives doesn't mean you're doing a great job.

Just have lvl^ and you cover the same event, and then we may have a meaningful look at numbers.

I think the nazi is mad at America for kicking Hitler's butt

Infuriated American reporting in.

Plus factually wrong. It was the Soviet Union that kicked Hitler's butt.

Yeah but we got the bombs so ya know. GG

That's correct. Bombing civilians from high altitudes seems to be a peculiarity of usa warfare.

Sick burn, bro.

nazi gang bang thats how u like it

yeah?

yes dorfbewohner ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Arbeit Arbeit.

Most quake fans would watch both streams, and Lo3 would pull in more randomers.

Stop turning this into us vs them is pointless and counter productive.

I believe you were just perpetuating what you say you wanted to stop, by making wild claims about numbers.

Where the discussion originally was about quality anyway, and not necessarily quantity. There's just so much to be easily confused.

you should yourself know better than anybody else that the fame of casters, the popularity of the website and the amount of advertisement exposure does matter at the very least as much as the actual content\quality of it provided, and while nobody's saying that any of you don't deserve it all it surely does not mean that you did your job OF PROVIDING best content better than somebody who got less viewers.

First off, i didn't mean to insult you guys. For me DH Winter was the best thing to watch due to the streaming quality, the interviews, the matches and the commentators, and also the drama (match throwing), And yep, i strongly agree with you about it being as popular as Halo of Black Ops

So close.

why would people search for quake live and also the game will get more popular as it's given to bigger masses, it just hasn't been advertised like those games have, nor does it have all the hype console boys make over them games.

What bigger masses? What advertising? QL is rapidly losing players, and never had any real spectator value.

according to who? SC fanboys?

In the past 2 months, the quake live site has lost more than 15% of its traffic. There are less people even PLAYING QL than there are just reading teamliquid.net. It is now at an all time low, with no sign of slowing down.

Where did you get those numbers?

he usually gets them from the shitty google beta but this time, alexa confirms it.

I still believe that 2011 will see a gradual increase in player base

if they get ladders and fix some other shit, sure, why not. I mean, getting thrashed 8:0 over and over in CTF just because you don't know how to select the right team isn't fun. If they do it right, it will help A LOT.

traffic is up 19% in the last 7 days

I don't know if the players is going up or down but it is ridiculous to say it never had any spectator value.

I'm sure many people who watch it would consider it the #1 game in terms of spectator value. I for one do not give two craps about SC2 seeing as I never played it or the first one and I don't understand it, and I don't like RTS games that much anyways.

Yeah, and people would say the same thing about CS who watch CS, SC2 who watch SC2, or Halo who watch Halo. The difference is that these games all have substantial players, and all bring in real crowds.

You do realize that player numbers have little to nothing to do with the actual quality of the game and everything to do with popular appeal and ease-of-entry?

So? Quality doesn't mean shit if it doesn't have any appeal. Laser-cut diamond shit is still shit.

I disagree with QL "rapidly losing players" as for your SC2 Fanboyism, didn't teamliquid used to get like 1k a day back in Brood War days, i mean the game is decent, but quake imo deserves to be as popular and WOULD be if given to masses

You're free to disagree, but you're still totally wrong. Where is the "SC2 fanboyism"? He brought up SC2, and I merely pointed out that even a small forum like teamliquid brings in more users than QL. You've had your masses - several hundred thousand people have tried QL, and you are left with the very few (and decreasing) who can put up with the game. If your game can't even compete with teamliquid as a forum for a game, how can you possibly expect to compete with ACTUAL games?

That's comparing searches right? Who in there right mind would search for Quake Live, it's not really a thing you search for considering you know the url already, not only that but TeamLiquid has been a website for 10 years giving it a bigger search ranking for many terms.

No, that is unique page hits. Both teamliquid.net and quakelive.com have their traffic directly monitored by google using google-analytics. This would be direct searches for "team liquid" (not starcraft 2, just team liquid), and "quake live".

Either way, quake live won't keep rapidly losing players, the updates and potential new tournaments are slowly gradually going to pull people back in..

If you match up the dates to the page hits, every update has caused only a marginal uptick in activity, followed shortly after by a substantial loss. The history of QL (and Q3) completely disagree with you.

However, the amount of updates will start to pile up making people either pay more or play again?

Based on the data, more frequent updates would kill the game even faster.

There is no fixing it, truly. Simply put, the learning curve is too high. Sure, other games have high levels of play, too, but over all noobs are likely to just wind up playing with noobs. Outside of Quake and Quake engine based games, is there even another FPS out there that actually has skill based speed of player movement? (strafe jumping)
This is but one tiny aspect of the overall player physics that players from no other FPS have to learn. All most FPS players have to learn are where the good camping spots are, and I've played plenty of CoD and CS, there are other things to factor in, sure, but nowhere near the depth that Quake and Quake-based games have.
The only way to increase the "Quake" player base is to remove the strafejumping, rocketjumps (or turn them into TF2 style noob-friendly rocket jumps), and everything else that makes it stand out as the best FPS on the planet.
To this day I get accused of cheating simply for knowing how to move across a map faster, not to mention aim/player prediction/etc.

Starcraft 2 might even have a larger learning curve, it's all still possible imo and quake 3 was still popular?

Quake 3 was an era that had to compete with, what, Goldeneye at best? Sorry, but consoles have taken over, so skill is out. Well, rather, I'm sure the best go-kart racer in the world is very skilled, but I'd still rather watch Le Mans.

Quake 3 had to compete with 1.6 and Brood War?

I don't know what brood war is, but it's probably not Call of Duty/Halo level accessibility

are you serious?

Quake3 only shortly competed with CS for #1 MP game, and than withered into a tiny niche.

What's newb friendly about TF2 rocket jumps? Minus a rocket jump script, they are harder than Q3.

sweetie, without exception everything about tf2 is newb friendly.

No seriously, they are slightly harder to execute than Q3.

except that you don't really have to aim the angles, which is most of the job in q3

How not? It sounds like you've never played TF2, or even a soldier. Even though there is proper air control, you still need to aim them exactly like you would in Q3. The only real difference between Q3 and TF2 is that you need to time your jumps with a crouch. Additionally, since wall jumps are such a huge part of soldier gameplay, you also need to work your initial jump to properly interact with your wall push.

you need to time the q3 jumps just as well and also, do it all way faster. So instead of doing it carefully, you have to rely on instincts that much more.

No, they are require the exact same mechanics, aside from TF2 requiring you to also time a crouch as you do it. Maybe you should actually play the games, as you don't seem to know what you're talking about.

=]

Wtf@yugoslavia

I know and that's totally cool. But tbh Scoots production, gear and knowledge is far beyond any other diy stream in any game, whether it be lvl^, the fighting game Level Up, QuakeLive.tv, glhf.tv, etc etc

so that just leaves the content for scoots ...

It's good to have knowledge and share it. This is not a war for supremacy. Look around you and then look at QL. You handful lot are the only hope for this game.

Moral of the story: Stop taking jabs at others. Do your work. Don't be stupid.

no offense, but the lvl^ coverage for dreamhack was worlds better than the Quakecon coverage, regardless of numbers of viewers. More people watch Fox News than any other "news" channel, but that doesn't make them any less blithering idiots. Backstreet Boys also had a drastically larger fan-base than Pink Floyd. Now, does that make them superior?

Quality of the stream itself, nearly instant VOD uploading, etc... lvl^ is in the lead for quality of broadcast so far, regardless of numbers, gear, etc. Sorry :P

Backstreet Boys had a larger following than Pink Floyd


wat.


(maybe when they first came out, but I do not believe that any of their albums are all time best sellers for years like DSOTM is)


just saying. :P

It's ok man. You personally have always helped us whenever we covered events and I thank you for that. Not to mention you guys also do a great job within the NA scene.

I couldn't care less tho how uber pro Scoots is as a producer, he needs a change in attitude towards fellow coverage organizations. I remember how he went way out of line bashing QL.TV after Quakecon this year and now when he had no negatives to put on our back, he just summed us up as a "low tier stream". That's real classy man.

But let's not take this further as it's pointless.

true true

I think what everyone here is trying to say is that the lower jab at lvl^ was unnecessary. Wheat to me is still the best around along with Day9. In fact, I started following Starcraft because of them. Also, everyone voiced their rage against id when you got banned. No one's playing favorites here but simply pointing out that you can be/are good without the other one being bad.

u sort of misquoted him. after reading ur post i honestly thought he was doing with lvlup what he did with qltv. but he was making a point that the number of viewers is independent of the production quality for the most part. which is true. i guess he might also have been saying that lvlup was not up there in terms of equipment and production quality but then again it doesnt matter to us. we got a high quality stream with good casting. prolly the best covered ql event so far.

as for the mlg comments, i would agree with scoots. looking at it from mlgs perspective there arent really any solid reasons for taking on ql. arguably u could replace one of the other smaller games they have now with ql but i dont think it will be worth the hassle for them. wish it were otherwise tho, cos i do think that 1on1 fps games (which pretty much means quake) has a lot of potential in reaching out to a larger audience if presented properly.

anyways this whole thing got blown out of proportion for that one misquote of urs. sad.

First off, it wasn't a misquote, he did say that, anyone could take the meaning of that to mean what you say or what i say, but either way, it's still very disrespectful

yes it was. he did IMPLY that lvlup's coverage was low-tier in terms of production value, but that was an implication, not a quote. u just stated it as given that he said lvlup was low-tier in terms of coverage quality itself, which he didnt.

yes it was disrespectful, but that doesnt change the fact that u misquoted him.

You mean mis-interpreted, the quote remains what he actually said?

Would be nice if Xbox players could see the difference between good and quake good :)

P.S.
Random funny...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPmFyboozEs&am...r_embedded

Plaster pictures of stermy when advertising quake live on MLG.

SirScoots is dumb, no offense.

These third-party orgs represent a lack of progress. The fastest way between two points is a straight line. These third-parties are dead-end detours. Sure, maybe you can make a few bucks going down the detour, but by doing so, it will take longer to reach the promised land.

.

http://esportsea.com It's like a league afaik

what about eswc?

Yeah cos ESWC haven't had a Quake tournament in years... *rolls eyes*

i wish it was such an easy pick for them .

lol @ someone not understanding fighting games its just beaten each other up with combo's etc... while starcraft is harder to follow when you dont know the game

*notsureifserious.jpg*

lol@someone not understanding quake games is just killing each other with weapon combos etc

lol @ someone thinking that quakelive is worth playing

i agree :)

lol @ ralph our resident quake 3 fanboy

you just never stop? it's in every thread

OMG QL bl0wss wah wah

ralph > american anonymous

ralph < *

not really, starcraft 2 is pretty much obvious game + with all the inbuilt help for casters/spectators that game has (big props to blizzard for all those stats and info they built in for the spectators) it is really easy to follow even if you see the game for the first time.

Blatant lies.

dude rofl, i even bought the game and played several hours on single player along with a few online 1on1's.

Guess what, I still don't understand a shit about any streamed game, even if it has shoutcast...

what serious?
i havent even touched starcraft before sc2 came out and after watching tastosis during BW i knew exactly what units (that were still the same) did what

not that i'm agreeing with esdf because it did take me a little bit to pick up from their casting
but then again i just really love competing/watching people compete and the buzz around starcraft is too big for me to ignore

//point is: playing several hours and not understanding is slow, but sc2 is not as easy to just understand as a viewer like esdf was trying to say

I've always been terrible at RTS games whatsoever though and eventjhough you havent played any starcraft, you probably have touched red alert, age of empire or whatever other classics ;)

I totally dont have the patience for such games and the will to learn all the units and what they do etc is way over my head anyway

My girlfriend played the campaign in SC2 and she enjoys GSL streams greatly.

Biased if she's been around you long enough to understand what you've been into during the last decade.

Oh and she probably has a better understanding of esports than our friend demon through knowing me? :)

She's not stuck in the quake scheme and principles, unlike dem0n.

You have no idea how hard it is for me to chase fresh spawns instead of stacking up, coming from the fighting game scene, I consider life/armor more important than frags cause that's my usual buffer.

I'm a UT player, never played RTS games, but I enjoyed SC:BW casts when Tasteless was commentating. I really don't think it's this difficult.

Sure, the first two hours may be a bit confusing, but the game's simple to watch. You obviously can't enjoy it literally right away, but it's far from difficult.

I doubt you're still stuck in the ut mindset though. That's like trying to drive a tank right after years of happily riding a bike everyday.

And I find sc2 is terrible to watch, I've tried to play the beta, I've tried to watch streams, I just couldn't be arsed to decypher wtf were those colliding 3d blobs. I can't feel excited about this game ( I'm not even talking about the usual stuff that pops out on tl.net about the mechanics, I can't say shit as I nearly don't understand them, I'm really talking about visual impact )

bw <3

:/

I didnt play the whole campaign though, the game bored me after a few hours as I said.

I hate RTS :P

i don't even own the game and i follow GSL, day9.tv etc.
i know the tech tree, most upgrades and popular strats/counters

the game is really really awesome, but i feel it's kind of a waste of time to play casually, at least for me.
especially when that time is limited and devoted to other games from a totally different genre.

i'd rather watch brilliant fast paced matches, than to noob around with my friends and mass units in a 50 minutes match :D

you know the deal, pic or it didn't happen. :)

id software is talking it!

never heard djwheat partake in any discussion :D always sirscoots and slasher while djwheat drops a comment once in a while

If MLG picked up quake - im pretty sure they'd have at least ~5000 on every stream (with good players). I'm sure it'd grow also.

No it wouldn't duuur because SC2 is so much betar huuuur

afaik it's been hard to contact them / get an answer for some other organizations

gl WCG, MLG & ESEA !

hard to contact these tournament organizers or id?

id

they're just playing hard to get

They are hard to get, but when you get in touch with the right guy, they're awesome.

I couldn't give two you-know-whats about SC2.

Quake forever!

Scoots is right though, Quake has not the right numbers :-x

[02:48] <@EG|SirScoots[UGP]> and ql will never have consistant coverage
[02:48] <@EG|SirScoots[UGP]> when the home of ql coverage for english is esr...
[02:48] <@EG|SirScoots[UGP]> nuff said


:D!

That's an easy one. Just have esr server raided under a false terrorist threat pretense. Quickly fill in with an own site, streamlined to personal needs and sponsored by McDonalds. Finally lean back and enjoy consistent coverage (of what again, exactly?)

Better than Cadred at least :)

he seems to know much about esr/xsr and quake(3) history. fucking retard, no wonder he gangs up with slasher to brag about how amazing they are. buddy love, fuck yeah.

This is coming from the ULTRA starcraft fanboy sirscoots. wow - this is disgusting. Obviously if you DIVERSIFY it's going to bring people to watch quake - who in turn might ALSO watch SC2. Dumbass. You think you're going to keep getting more viewers just leaving ONLY sc2 up there - no.

I can't believe people would rather watch tekken, halo, or call of duty over Quake. Such a joke. Quake is just such a better game on all levels. So much better as a spectator game.

Tekken, no one who isn't a level 100 nerd has ever heard of that game. I know no one, no one, who doesn't live in their parent's basement who plays that game, let alone competitively.

MLG and other orgs operate on the # of people who play, not on the competitive quality. Quake Live competitive quality is about 100x better, and I say this as objectively as I can, than any MLG game barring SC2.

SirScoots might do a great job with eg but I think on some topics he is just wrong.
First of all the amount of players playing a game doesn't make a game an esports title or even justify it. WoW might have 11 million players and yeah a lot of people watched the wow streams but wow itself is so bugged, unbalanced and unfriendly for viewers/beginners that it is just not suited for eSports (I play arena). Blizzard invested a huge amount of money to push their game and esl and other esports leagues jumped on the bandwagon. They all just saw the quick money but I already said back then that wow will never be as big as cs and wc3 because no-one who doesn't play wow gives a shit about it. Wasted money, effort and time they could have put in other promising games.
There are a lot of people who follow big quake/sc2 events though they don't play the game. There lies the potential and not in fifa, halo or even CoD -.- You don't need 10 million people to be a big eSports game. Compare it to formula1 or any other big sport event which doesn't have the same player base like basktetball or soccer. Though a adequate player base is needed (quake4/painkiller lql)

Of all the games ql duel has probably the biggest potential out there. Tense, heroes, clutches (rapha-cooller) trashtalk, personalities (strenx, cooller, rapha, stermy and so on), hate, rage, browsergame etc. But ID has to fuck it up and charge money for maps (retarded).
"Hey great game there on aerowalk I think I'll try that game. OH WAIT I have to pay money for it lql"
I don't mind paying for the server hosts, starting your own ones, extra scoreboard and so on but charging money for maps is just plain fucking dumb.
The next problem is the consistency of esports games. Ever wondered why 1on1 duel has fallen back compared to cs and sc/wc3? Because the game (ut, painkiller, osp, cpm, q4) changed so quick like a bitch her clients. Why should anyone invest time into something which will be after one year gone anyway. You don't become pro in one weak :x.

So to some up my blabla I think mlg seriously should consider to take quake (duel, face it tdm will never be big) as an esports title otherwise they might lose vs the esl and give them an easy time to conquer the american market.

ps: Yeah I was bored :D

im not saying it will be, and i dont really care aslong as i have fun. (im not disillusioned like frozen, tdm for money rofl) but why do you think tdm would never be big if some other teamgames can be? q3tdm was huge back in the day, especially when you think how undeveloped e-sports in general were

There are a few points why I think tdm will never be a big team game:

- hard to follow
- outsiders have no clue what is happening. All they see is people shooting randomly at each other and rushing every 2 min to quad
- maps with only quad are boring is hell, it's really rare that you can see a quad run on dm6, dm17
- quad runs with sg aren't really "sick"


Don't get me wrong I for myself would like to start to play tdm because I think it is a hell of a lot fun to actually play it. I watched some tdm games with joe and james casting and I liked it but it also got boring pretty fast because it is always the same. The only maps I enjoyed were those with two powerups.

fix it (make it more like qw tdm, as in more frequent powerups, weaker weapons or atleast more armor for Reds and Yellows), give us ladders and some tournaments and watch how the scene reinvigorates. This hard to watch thing is important for esports in the grand scheme, but at the moment, if a game becomes popular it can be popular to watch even if hard to watch. DotA anyone? And dota is and extreme example, QL TDM would be so much easier with some adequate tools.


BTW, we need this "Fix TDM" as a petition or something, seriously they have maps with different mh times why can't they diversify TDM a bit more, I can't see how anybody profits if it's the same as every other gametype but also dead.

i agree. its about time this topic to be discussed thoroughly and presented to id.

"First of all the amount of players playing a game doesn't make a game an esports title or even justify it."

You must be seriously retarded to write such a statement. The popularity of the game, aka a ton of people playing it online/competitively is imo the main prerequisite for it to be an esports title.

Quake Live is esports title just because it lives off of Quake 3's competitive history and a decent amount of pro players that Q3 left behind.

Compare it to formula1 or any other big sport event which doesn't have the same player base like basktetball or soccer. Though a adequate player base is needed

Pls spare me your bullshit and read what I wrote ffs.
A big player base doesn't grant the title "esport game". CoD isn't suited for esports nor is wow. You don't need 10 million people to play a game just enough to provide for new talents. QL is on a good way, at least there are enough players on my level which haven't been in warsow, painkiller or quake4.

But ID has to fuck it up and charge money for maps (retarded).

So you're saying this game has huge potential but you're not willing to spew out 20 bucks for a year of it?

id didn't fuck anything up, I'm glad subscription is available so we can get more new content.
If anyone fucked it up it was the acquisitive community that just complained all the time.

And I'm not even sure why I used the past tense, it's not like anything changed or will change if such mindset continues among the community.

I have my own grudges with QL, not to mention the recent downtimes, just to let you know I'm not completely biased.

I have premium and I understand why they are charging money for it. I think 24€ is nothing compared to the time someone spends time playing the game. Compare it to other freetime activities like watching a movie at the cinema (7€+popcorn/coke = 2 hours of "fun"), getting wasted and spend 40€ on alc/weed and so on.
I'm glad that I can log in and play the game and care for anything. I don't have to pay for my own server, if a server is full I'll just move to the next one and so on. No biased admins who kick you because you are rail only and blabla. I don't know what a decent quake3 server is priced at but a good 1.6 server is about 30€ each month.

Julian Assange is a terrorist. The 1st-amendment is a terrorist. Super-markets are terrorists. If you disagree with me, you're a terrorist. Anyone who gets in my way is a terrorist.

It's the new policy of the Obama administration.

Do you know why governments are so evil? Because they have nothing better to do. Those losers spend all their time figuring out how to stay in business. The less legitimate work they have, the more evil they become. They have to forever invent methods of perpetuating their indispensability.

The people who prosecuted Ted Bundy were terrorists. Do you have any idea how difficult they made it for Ted Bundy to conduct business? Imagine... while you're trying to rape and murder innocent people, someone is poking in your affairs, trying to put you in prison. Now that's a terrifying thought.

I wholeheartedly agree with this info, entirely relevant to the thread.

i was a bit pissed at the beginning but then i remembered its an american show done by americans in the great america. i did not care anymore from then on.

haha, nice

lol, just listened to this shit, scoots has his head so much up his ass (even tho he's on point for some things) that it's unbearable to watch over 5 mins... and i watched thru the whole discussion.

This is Sir Scoots:
http://silentespeaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2...up-ass.jpg

Call levelup low tier = all your opinions are void

this. instant credibility plunge.

I don't like TDM as it is either. It's so random, and I don't like watching people MGing each other for most of the match, then picking up lame-o weapons like plasma or grenade launcher and spamming that.

I watch QL for the action, and duel delivers, TDM doesn't really.

I hate to say it but I kinda agree.
TDM is relatively painful to watch and follow via stream.

I like TDM, I really do, it's just that 20 minutes of watching it from different povs, only checking on stream every 2 minutes (powerup) when something happens.

Meh.
I remember watching some cs:s streams and that didn't feel so tedious, probably because of rounds.

Well, I would also agree unless mlg would convince 2gd to be a tdm caster, watching his tdm casts @ esl was really entertaining tho, would love to see him along with djwheat for example, it might be most epic casting ever ! :C
On the other hand, I think this tournament might be succefull only if eu teams would also show up, without them this might be seriously random, but you cant say that about teams like 4k ! o/
Yeah, "dream on...."

Scoots ragin' like a child again?

ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz..........

I can't even listen to LO3 when he gets voice time.

Seems like he's completly missed that there are things like the great lvl^ coverage, Zotac every weekend, and now even a TDM tournament sponsored by FullTiltPoker coming up. I don't know how many times I've heard "Quake is dead." in the last 5 years. Nothing easier than beating on the underdog and flocking to a mainstream game that was going to be a guranteed hit anyway.

this ^ :D

more like 8 years, but it still has many good years to come before it will be close to the grave.

Guys know what theres no bad marketing, just marketing. Lets stop talking about lower life forms that dont deserve the typing. id is trying to leverage the game towards pro leagues and you waste your energy on crap. This could be such an important milestone for the revival of the genre.

Been to busy to catch this VOD or check out this ESR post. Will do so soon...

I keep seeing people respond that we need tournaments to draw in more players, but only the limited pool of players we have pay attention to the tournaments. What quakelive needs is some sort of advertising. were not getting new players to the game for a lot of different reasons but I feel like were missing a large portion of new players because they've never heard of the game before.

Is id really interested in making quake live "big" as an esport? I think they rather do that with a quake 5/rage/etc.

The frustrating thing is that id hasn't appeared interested in promoting QL as an esport. Not until now at least. They have a portal through which ALL game content is controlled, but as an average user, you would be hard pressed to realize this game is played competitively if all you did was go to quakelive.com

Which is such a fucking waste. Sure the user base is small, but when you have that user base accessing the game through a common (and, almost as crucially, dynamic) interface, you gain incredible power over determining what your product is and how it is meant to be consumed.

Yea CSS or CoD etc have more players, but they also have more ways to get into a game. Every single person playing QL has to go to the same place, and everyone one of those players should be getting bombarded with advertisements for tournaments, live feeds, VODs, demos, news, player profiles, and *gasp* tournaments sponsored THROUGH QL. I understand that a lot of these things take a substantial investment, and are not worth it for id, but how hard is it to fucking splash some graphics about an upcoming (or past) tourney, write a blurb, drop a link to lvl^ and stick some demos somewhere. But alas.

It's funny, discussing whether "[MLG] need the game to begin with" when it doesn't seem like id is sure whether THEY need the game to begin with.

So damn true. Other than some random twitter post once in a while by Sync, there's never a single mention of a tourney (big or small) on quakelive.com. Well aside from quakecon. :/

+d. am i the only one who constantly wonders just what id is doing with the ql project? they havent realized even 1% of the potential of having a game accessible through a single web portal and strangely dont seem to be interested in realizing its potential at all. i kept thinking that theyre just keeping the ql project going to string us along until they release their next quake like game on which theyre concentrating their efforts, but then one wonders why theyd put in any work in on ql at all.

im happy that quake has any support from id at all, and im happy that the scene though small is still good enough to make competing fun. but im totally mystified by id's attitude to the project.

No, I don't get it either. It's almost as if the guys working on it are given no direction. On the one hand, they've obviously put some amount of work into it. On the other, there are many basic things that should've been done or should be done that aren't in regards to the epic community game they've mentioned before they want qlive to be. Whether it's lack of funding or whatever qlive is just limping along and has been for some time now. It would be nice if it picks up (player wise), but I can't see it happening in it's current state.

Imo making their next games popular would be much easier if they would put some effort into QL, you know, same company, so it would show that they care, and stuff, but... when id showed that they really care since Doom3/Q4 ?? (while both with putting some effort could be great succesors of Q3A, what was showed by modmakers who made Q4max, and army of mapmakers who gave us galang, moonsoon, and stuff - the only reason why Q4 was played competitevely for some time)
Does relasing game with so fucking many flaws in multiplayer gameplay really shows that they care?
Id already announced that they want to make some good multiplayer modes for Rage and Doom 4, but you know, until they will show anything about them they have no credit from me.

Btw I just want to say hi to esr, i was writing some comments as guest for some time, now i just registered so im your new newfag ;*
Sorry for my english and potentional dumbness tho ;p

I think someone should get in touch with Angel Munoz.

http://www.formspring.me/AngelMunoz

rapha > ralph

Scoots is just an old man who can't play anything so his perspective shifts and always will shift to whats popular. If people stopped playing starcraft 2 and started playing barbie horse adventure extreme 2 he'd be all over that.

What good is E-sports if it constantly shifts between titles every year and the level of skill involved to compete at the highest level is constantly degrading ? Quake is consistent - period.

If scoots needs E-friends as bad as i'm guessing he doesn't have any in Quake. Hes like a professional swimmer whos never swam. Just a long winded old fart who supports whatevers hot at the moment.


Enough with the doombells, in an age where fucking ANGRY BIRDS can make millions why can't a free to play deathmatch game make it ? Or even stand on its own feet in the competitive scene that it practically set the standard for ? Stupid stupid stupid.

Why does scoots even have a voice ? He didn't earn it ? I don't like hearing this guy mouth off second hand knowledge he gathered from E-sports sites and gamers he nut hugs. What a phony.

What good is E-sports if it constantly shifts between titles every year and the level of skill involved to compete at the highest level is constantly degrading ? Quake is consistent - period.

It's valid to insult someone just for jumping to SC2 due to it's huge popularity, but to say that a game like Quake is consistent as an esport is laughable. Remember when we played QW? Q2? Q3? CPM? Q4? ETQW? QL? Quake is easily the LEAST consistent game that has been adopted by tournaments, and has the most shaky tournament history because of it. Starcraft Broodwar has the most consistent history, with Counter-Strike being the only game remotely close, and Quake being at about the level of WoW.

do you believe any of this or do you just type

English, please.

[+] for nut hugs

OH MY GOSH QUAKE AT ESL CANLT BELIV IT YO