How do you know it's gone?

I noticed this as well actually but figured it just loaded when I went ingame. I always ctrl alt delete the pnkbusterA+B things off when not in Quake because I always felt it just fucked me around in other games and was unnecessary.

As if it worked anyway..

So you can kill punkbuster A and B processes and you can still play in servers in QL just fine?

Nah if you did that then it would kick you for that inpure client or whatever I think. Whenever I exited Quake I always brought up task manager. pnkbusterB would always stay on but pnkbusterA would turn off if you left game. Sometimes if you exited Firefox B would turn off as well.

I just got into the habit of turning that shit off though because I always thought it was lagging me in other shit

you were right, it's a noticeable lag in other games if you don't kill that process.

my railgun started to shoot like crazy all of a sudden O_o

I noticed this too..

also, unrelated and somewhat minor, but cg_mouse_filter_angles no longer works since the update. stermy will be disappoint.

I'm not sure why they keep changing/adding/removing stuff without putting it in the changelog :l

er, you mean cg_filter_angles ?

oh right.. for some reason it was tabbing to cg_mouse_etc and didn't show up in cvarlist :/
ta

Yep its gone and the cheaters have come out in full force, fucking hilarious.

shit never worked anyways.

it scared some bitches at least, now everyone is like 'oh snap no cheat detection? ill go download 5 month old hacks' rofl

Punkbuster is and always has been completely useless. I never saw it kick a bot once in the entirety of QL and there are plenty of people who couldn't play in the past due to PB problems and/or communication errors, etc. So with legit players being kept out and hackers able to stay in, what benefit does PB serve? Nadda.

In a way it actually encourages people to cheat by tempting them to try and test a system that is obviously ineffective, one that everyone knows can be bypassed with little to no effort.

Same thing happened to PB in Q3, it did nothing (beyond the first couple of weeks) except cause lag and other problems. After a while, most servers just turned PB off and as you can see QL is following suit.

One of the few good decisions they have made, if it is on purpose.

I encountered 2 hackers.

One of them was obvious - he shot 80 lg/mg on t9 and we sent in a demo.

Another one wasn't as obvious, he played pretty normal (close game with me) I'd say - just one thing wondered me, he hit every rail he needed to hit and even from my pov he flicked all of those shots from far away (ztn: he aimed from sg to gl and i peek from lower rail/25 bubble and he flicks 90° and hits) - but he was detected by punkbuster and banned (multihack something). If he wasn't detected I would have said he was legit tbh.


btw: would that wire thing by esl be a good anti-cheat measurement? vac won't be possible for the moment I guess.

vac is and was useless for years. The new wire is quite good at detecting even privat hacks such as from organner. If you want to cheat you'll prolly get a privat hack which will cost you a little fortune (I know people who spend 100€+ for cheats ...) and which will also be "safe". The thing is a decent updated anti cheat software prevents little fuckers from cheating because there is no leaked privat hack which will work more than a month.
I think quake never had this problem like 1.6 has and I hope this will last. Cheating in 1.6 is on of the causes why I stopped playing it.

wth is a private hack?

cheat coded for a few players who pay money for it.

so the private code is harder for vac or pb or whatever to detect?

I guess so

if pb works like an antivirus software, it is detecting hax with some sort of signature - and private hacks have the advantage not being publically known

Ah real privatcode was undectable. Don't know whether things have changed with wire but at the aquitas era there were plenty of cheaters who only got cought with a timetable. There were privat hacks public and still esl didn't do shit to prevent it. I busted one myself because he was cheating so obviously.

I quit the game because you couldn't play one decent pcw without getting called a cheater, playing vs cheaters and kids -.-
I remember playing 2on2 aml (aimmap ladder) and we would have been top 30. Nothing special but 35% our games were vs cheater who got busted sooner or later. Im just saying that without any anticheat even ql will get problems because the more popular a game is the more retards are getting attracted.

I hope this will never happen with ql. If you want to cheat right know in ql then no-one can stop you. You just have to find a coder and he will create you and undectable humanized aimbot -.- But so far I haven't seen a cheater in ql. Maybe because I mainly play duels but I think in ca there might be a few.

Anticheat coders can just download public cheats because they are publicly available and ban certain srings in the memory or just the hashcode etc.

For private cheats the only way to catch them are screenshots and stuff like that but most good cheats have a way around that so they are pretty undetectable.

pay-to-play is way better anticheat system then punkbuster. well, actually anything is better than punkbuster but thats not the case.

This is exactly the last thing this community and game needs. This is just like the end of the Quake 3 era, you have no idea if someone's legit until they go to LAN. It's bullshit that a game in e-sports has absolutely NO ant-cheat at this point. Yes, I understand you think Punkbuster did very little, and that's probably true, but it was something. In this case, something is better than nothing.

All this is going to lead to is bullshit online tournaments and players cheating to work their way up in leagues to gain more attention.

Anti-cheat, or Quake 5. Pick one ID.

you sir, forgot to say that nobody can play on lan, except you are pro, so we gonna have some nice bunch of cheaters because we will NEVER know if they are legit or not. And someday even strenx will lose to someone, because they have private timer and 3D radar.

Thx for LAN-Support in this case, but its not the solution for "cheat problems". I hope ESL-Wire will support QL, but i really doubt it. It was nice to see couple of pro teams banned by wire for cheating. And as far as i get, its not very easy to hack wire.

fuck no, esl wire is strictly on windows os
what about players using linux or mac? (mostly linux, macs are gay)

and i'm not sure if VAC runs on linux

I don't think there's a big market for mac cheats yet.

Yes, I understand you think Punkbuster did very little, and that's probably true, but it was something.

No, it wasn't something.

Yes, it was, because now with the payment options, people think twice about buying premium or pro because they know at any time, the cheats can be found and they're out $25-$50.

Cheats were almost NEVER found by PB - just by players.

cry more. You already got your laggy scoreboard in ql. We're not listening to you in regards to readding pb. It sucks and so do you for even trying to bring it back. Good riddens pb.

Thing is though they have to ban most cheaters manually anyway because PB doesn't do shit, plus it caused so much lag and crap I just don't mind that it's gone.

Hopefully they bring in a new system or just make their own though, they've had a history of always trying to deal with cheaters anyway so I expect something will be added in soon.

this. most cheaters are banned via demos sent in and reviewed. then action is taken. much more reliable than PB, causes less lag, etc.

That would be a good point, if it wasn't for the fact that pb was completely useless and didn't stop hackers in the first place.

who gives a sh*t about QL.

you, because you post here

punkbuster was a joke

Here are a few cheaters that were never taken care of by pb:

brownsugar aka spicybabe aka velcor (2nd account)
digitalhunter
thepopisdope
khalil
prodigyzyn
frederickzoller
deathadderownsu
eyouwillusewhil
unholy11

and some other cheaters taht took 6-12 months to get banned manually (cuz pb didn't do sh1t)

snake1
idontplaywell
lreed4132952910
sheep1337
un0jeeee aka unholeee
krodeem
mrnubbanubba
gesichtsgert

and those are just the guys i came across over 2 years of playing. That's how terrible pb is/was.

r.i.p pb you won't be missed

never heard of anyone of those

me either

"gesichtsgert"

:D

no <3 for walter, kgb?

lol @ north america

I've only seen 2 or 3 cheaters in my life, and they were really obvious.

I still think it will be very very difficult for anyone to play at div 1 / div 2 level using cheats, without making it look obvious. It may HELP them, but it won't make them win. (And it won't help at all at pro-level)

At those levels you know where the guy is the whole time anyway, so wallhacks only work in certain situations.

I like how you completely unknowingly disqualify yourself from having an opinion on cheating before you even make a point.

You would think that because you have only come across 2-3 cheaters in your life it would dawn on you that perhaps you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to cheating.

The fact that you don't believe that using a hack enables you to win without being obvious just goes to show how fucking ignorant you are.

Anti-cheat has been and always will be the one weakness of ID games. Now we get to pay monthly to have our games ruined for us.

lol @ SA!

Actually I played in Europe for 3 years and have just gone back to SA. I've seen cheats in use and have watched videos of the so called realistic cheating programs. In fact I think I actually downloaded one of the cheat programs a few years ago to see what it could actually do.

Anyway, lets get to the bottom of your argument rather than just saying "You don't know what you are talking about lol!". My argument is that wallhacks and "realistic" aiming systems do not give you enough of an advantage to compete at a higher level, due to:

A.) On upper tiers people know where you are anyway (nullifying wallhacks)

B.) realistic aiming systems might give you good aim, but only up to pro level (above that will make it look suspicious), which could be detrimental to your movement, and won't help your control (which is the difference between the upper tiers anyway)

I'm not saying that it WON'T give you an advantage at all, I'm just saying that it doesn't really matter on the upper tiers, and if some no namer is cheating, who cares, you are only playing for fun anyway.

If anyone is trying to make themselves known and get to the upper tiers using cheats, it will be noticed, and no one will be able to use it at lans.

one word to prove you wrong: sombra.

another two to make it worthwile: clock and strenx.

all three cheated on a high level and got caught due to being retarded, not anticheat or clever quakers.

I would prefer that you tried to actually answer my reasons, but anyhow. Neither clock nor strenx were high level when they cheated. I would be inclined to say that neither was sombra, even if he attended some high profile tournies.

Anyway, the exception is never the rule. And they got caught, which I mentioned.

Also, the main part of my argument is that even if they were cheating, it wasn't helping them as much as it should have. I believe that in that sombra game, he barely won. It is likely the scores wouldn't have been much different if he were playing without a wallhack.

it's hard to argue when it's so plain obvious you are wrong, a wallhack or a radar helps no matter what level you are at. i find it hard to believe you are seriously doubting that?!

my point was that those three didn't get caught, rather they slipped after playing with top tier players for years and never getting caught.

I witnessed the following tbone:

1. mrgreen (high level competitive na player, competes at quakecon) get owned by a tier 1 , i repeat, a tier 1 cheater (using a common aim assisted bot) named idontplaywell. He didn't try to hide it's use but still managed to dominate even though he couldn't strafe and aim at all.

2. digitalhunter use a very difficult to spot aimbot to handle just about any opponent, high level or not and manage to avoid punkbuster and a ban for 4 months by having mediocre skills. Even tier 5 players had problems bringing him down in a 1v1.

3. seen guys like sheep1337 and snake1 handle anyone, no matter who it was, like they were taking candy from a baby. It was really that easy. Snake1 was tormenting the ca servers and sheep was doing the same similarly in ctf. They didn't last long (about a week) but they didn't try to hide their cheating either (and it still took a week).

4. etc.

point being tbone you're just wrong, sorry but you haven't played long enough to see the different programs out there, how they've been modified (to make them virtually undetectable by the human eye even) and haven't played in those high level games you speak of to see them in action against those top players you speak of.

mrgreen played like shit at qcon ... now the kid is railing better then the likes of kgb. 2-3months ago mrgreen was a 40-45acc railer at best. Now he's 60+ every game rail whoring.

strenx? how did he cheat?

i wasn't there when it happened but I found those 2 links interesting:

strenx - fear my le aim

http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=1641899

tbh he's aiming like that on lan these days.

I can't say much about the video (apart from the fact that I find it hillariously funny and french) but I thought it was legit too first
:X

yeah i don't think thats cheat... i mean he's pretty much lan proven =)
i know he's been accused of cheating because of his aim but thats pretty much disappeared when he attended at lan, i would like some sources from zealot.
i hope he doesn't mean that he aimboted because i don't believe that for a second. i mean whats the point when you already have the best shaft in the world.
this is why I'm always hesitant to get on the witch hunt wagon and call someone a cheater because there are ppl out there whit good aim and ppl here have a tendency to scream cheater based on just a handful of clips which could be just lucky moments.

What stops a LAN proven player from either cheating or having cheated online exactly? That's right, nothing.

that was not the point, all i said was that if strenx was accused of aimboting i don't believe in it because I've seen his aim on lan. its easy to see why he would have been accused of cheating in the past when he has that sort of aim and has not been to a major lan.
if you mean he has been cheating in the past please share the evidence or is this like so many other accusations where ppl just claim stuff without anything real to back it up?

no one is born with this kind of aim, not even strenx. he used to be a different player in the past.

I'd say if you played any other fast paced fps, you get your aim to its peak in a matter of mounts maybe even weeks... its just a matter of getting your settings right.
still... do you any evidence at all?

he started with q3 and he was like 13-14 back then. you're missing my point, everyone had to start somewhere and it wasn't 50% lg.

do you any evidence at all?

i played him back then, you didn't :)

played with cheats back in q3 and all i can say that helps u to understand game MOPRE, u understand how to aim BETTER because of autoshoot and how ur opponent moving on the map thx wh. but hey ur butthurt beucase u scared to take DECISIONS swemo kid

lol troll

everyone was suspition on sombra, so ...

really, i wasn't :/

the guy was akiles main practice partner when he went to WCG (and became 2nd only losing to unkind iirc) and he played year after year in the cb tdm eurocup.
i even remember downloading all of sombra's demos cos his rail was so amazing... if you were suspicious you saw things i never could.

I didn't knew him good before, maybe that's why. 1st time I saw him in #ninjaquake and we played 2 duels, after 2 duels i was 99% sure he is using cheats, so I didn't played him all year (i dont like play cheaters). I saw his lot of games, I knew he is cheating, I told that lot of times, but ppl was to lazy. But he was catched :)

that's interesting, maybe he started cheating rather late? that would be so weird as he played on a much higher level before, lol :p

he also played in every q4 duel eurocup there was and competed with d&m in the few cpl lan tdm tournaments there were.

he was about as high profile as they come in euro tdm imo. i don't know much about duel but as i said, he was akiles guy in 2002 when he shocked everyone :d

and all 3 of those did great on lans without cheats aswell btw

true :) they have all proven to be very good at quake on lan. that's why i mentioned them as he said something about "pro-level players" in his original post.

Go tell that to yuka ;p

you sir forgot about heartless.

Who cares about skilless no namers.

apparently not id. The skilless nonamers (cheaters or not) are the only thing that will keep ql alive though.

Hi prominer

correct sir. was naming off those i've personally encountered on north american servers.

"It may HELP them, but it won't make them win"
what's ur opinion on sombra then?

oh some sort of reply exists on this already; seen it just now

While this can be damaging in terms of attracting new players to Quake Live, punkbuster or no punkbuster has never made a difference for those playing competitive modes on a higher level.

nice that they removed pb
My xp run 12 proscess after boot, always bugged me a little that i needed 3 more just to play ql; Firefox.exe, pnkbstA and B.exe. Also pb interfer with mouse somehow, in qw mouse always feelt better after disabling punkbuster.
Also anyoing one had to enter msconfig, enable pb then reboot just to play quakelive. Who want 2 exes running all the time when one seldom play ql.

wow man
do you use any kind of antivirus? I'm proud of my 28 processes (with the 29th being whichever game I'm playing) and have no idea of what else I can get rid of for gaming. Any chance you could post a screenshot of your processes list?

Same, I float around 25-29. 12? He must be treating the multiple svchost.exe processes as one or something. 12 almost seems impossible.

EDIT: I don't use an anti-virus though.

I do use antivirus, looks like this http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5558/28processes.jpg

All of the CT***.exe processes can be removed, I have an x-fi and none are needed to make the card work. They're just services that look for updates, etc. Removing them takes nothing away from the performance or functionality of the card.

lqs.exe is new to me, it's under SYSTEM, I don't think it's necessary.

This is mine, PB needed because I play QL too often to start it up then remove it every time (although apparently QL doesn't use punkbuster anymore, so who knows).

http://i.imgur.com/DeWOQ.png

ctfmon.exe is redundant as well.

hm i typed wrong its 13 process, it shows 14 when i i do ctr alt del since the windows taskbar count as one. I cant post screen since i am away for christmas, currently on an xp that has 55 process running..
No antivirus, only mozilla with noscript. And i do refomat like twice a year or if system feels weird.
Basicaly i just did the tweaks from this site
http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/supertweaks.htm
And disabled processes with the guideline from this services list
http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm
i run a mix off "bare bones" and "tweaked"
Best is to make options on boot to have a gaming profile that turns off everyting http://www.blackviper.com/images/Articles/OS/...15_png.gif
http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/Archive_SP2/xpprofiles.htm

I remember when I had a really shit pc and wanted the extra fps, I got rid of the shell. I'm sure that was worth a few processes. I ran everything through ctrl alt del, and switched between them using alt tab.

If the system got enough memory and it's not swapping continously, that would mean about +1 fps (max) on a Pentium-2

think it was a celeron 533, and I got about 20 extra frames. I don't remember the details as it was close to 10 years ago.

pb didn't do shit ok, but it's stupid to remove it before replace it with a new one

The most failpart about it is that id once again can't admit pb was useless. Instead they just remove it and act like it never existed. For once i'd like to see syncerror prove he has some balls and admit they were wrong but then again we'er talking about a guy who doesn't have the balls to ban Incubus for excessive tierslumming.

Maybe with a new development team, quake live can be saved, maybe...

SUSPICIOUS POST.....

Smells a bit like raythenoob...

wow u care so much about random internet nerds like sync, better go fuck his woman ;)

why dont you switch it up, beat the shit out of his wife and fuck HIM in the ass. See how they deal with the old switcheroo

)))))))))

The forbidden arts!

Your power is great, sensei.

[18:54] <@SyncError|home> We are still able to catch cheaters. :)
[18:55] <@SyncError|home> And the benefits of using their system did not outweigh the issues it created.

I realy don't care, I know top30 players, who can beat me and I ask duel on IRC, so pb on or off , it is same shit..

on higher level everybody knows everyone. well that's right, but on pub level and midskill nobody knows - nobody goes to qlive lan and everybody keeps suspicious

I only ask for Liam when I wanna play
he's so huge I don't need a radar to see him on the map

liam so fat even with cg_enemymodel keel he shows up as tankjr

Pair of niggers

I love how everybody is assuming there isn't some other method of cheat detection already built into the client.

The most effective means of detecting bots and aim assistance was done way way back before pb ever existed. It was built into the mod engine and it simply looked for suspicious mouse movements and crosshairs activity and such.

Worked VERY well.

Also, didn't need any third party software. nobody cares wtf hax the guy is using, we just care they are using hax, ban and move on.

lol?

U mad?

so um, what exactly defines suspicious mouse movements?

Are you duh?

No, really, are you? Durpa duh gurk, durrr?

Suspicious mouse movement -for example with humanized bots - its not hard to extrapolate the users mouse settings, input type, etc. and determine 'real' from 'fishy' (aka: software calculated) mouse movement.

It's all just math.

Also, is some user hitting the exact same spot on the enemy hitbox time and time and time again? Thats fishy, worth looking into.

It doesnt have to come outright and spam the screen with OMG SOANSSO IS HAX!!!, all it has to do is alert the people in charge 'hey you may want to look at this guy.', and nobody is the wiser.

Also,server side demos. This is a nobrainer.

Put some of these things (and probably even more) together, and you have a fairly effective cheater-finding-system-thingy.

All without punkbuster. It's not rocket science. :P

"Suspicious mouse movement -for example with humanized bots - its not hard to extrapolate the users mouse settings, input type, etc. and determine 'real' from 'fishy' (aka: software calculated) mouse movement."

oh durr it's that easy? please do provide us with some details of how exactly you'd go about this, especially considering user mouse settings to determine which movement is fishy. thanks.

worked very well? what are you smoking son.

Btw, you just outed yourself when you said "we". :)

no word on a new one having been added

Of course :) with closed-source engine you can silently make and send screenshots even without PB for example - that can explain "strange lags"/etc in natural way

is it just me or is pb back online?

Guys! I never tried cheats in my life... I always wanted to try Quake with them, dunno the feeling... u know... But as I understood it's fucking hard to find them on internet? :D

actually no, they're pretty easy to find, if you wanna just try them out for a while, you can get a wh + aimbot HERE

I won't open man... I'm scared... I'm new to internet. It can be virus or gay porn...

still new enough to know about gaypornlinks ~~

3-4 years ago I loved to send gaypornlinks to my friends in russian social network :) I love to make lame jokes, don't you? :D

In Russia, sending such video is considered an invitation, not a joke.

Have you been to Russia? gays have a hard time here man, not like in USA or Europe, so I think you just random idiot who talk stupid things.

This is why sending such videos is a subtle, indirect way to express your sexual desire.

Pretty sure Russia is in Europe.

yet in comunism era they used to kiss each other on the mouth

mb it's funny one time.. then just lame :P

I think PB was a prank designed to frustrate legit players with lags which they were supposed to endure for the sake of having a clean game.

Oh Evenbalance, you so crazy.

they just try to balance teams to be even:)

pb never lagged my game in quakelive :<

lcd + wireless mouse @125hz, amirite?

right

Going anticheatless is like going commando irl. It feels great and you have slightly faster access to all your important parts.

That's cool and all, until you have to go to the bathroom, and someone you thought you knew really well jumps out from the shower right as you enter and drops 80% lg on your asshole before you can even take a shit, then proceeds to sit on the toilet.

watch me solve the cheating problem (not that it hasn't been said before):
allow players to temp ban vote (or at least kickvote) during games

edit:: thread is old ..