Well it sucks and nothing we can do about it
Distance youre able to reg a hit is crazy

sg makes strenx happy when he runs out of lg ammo.

Make a poll then. :) I agree. It is boring to have 90% SG kills on cp1 as well as in TDM.

a poll is a good suggestion i think, any suggestions on the possible choices?

What do with the possibly OP sg in QL?


- Nerf in certain gametypes (TDM, possibly CTF)
- Nerf in all gametypes (TDM, CTF, DUEL, ...)
- Make armors stronger in TDM
- Keep as is



*Nerf=dmg or spread or ammo

hmm, i would want a more neutral title tbh, like "sg balance"
and i guess it has to have multiple answers casue the interesting question isnt just if it needs a nerf (and in what gamemode), but what the nerf is

if you look at previous polls with multiple answers .. people aren't able to answer them in the intended way :(

true :(

i think a simple "nerf sg?" poll with "yes" and "no" options would be the best starter. you can pick up the comments on that and make another one for the details but the big question is, does a majority of players think it should be nerfed somehow?

Balance of Quake Live Shotgun:

The shotgun has been considered too powerful or too "random" by a sizeable portion of the community, what would you impose (Multiple pick)?

A) Leave the shotgun alone; it's balanced the way it is.

B) Modify damage ouput/spread in team games?

C) Modify damage output/spread in duel?

D) Increase spread and leave current spread "patterns"?

E) Increase spread by changing to cpma "concentric circles" spread?

F) Decrease damage?

G) Decrease damage and increase spread?

H) Increase reload time?



How about something like this?

no

Thanks for your constructive input.

Where would we be without you.

or just make it shoot blank bullets

Ah the staple weapon of tag and tdm. :|

I never seem to do any damage with it (except when finishing off someone with like 1 hp) and always take full damage from half a map away when someone shoots it at me.

God bless you shotgun, you piece of shit.

FUCKING HATE SHOTGUN. SO GODDAMN RANDOM and it never hits high damage for me always low bullshit, then a guy hits me for 110 damage.. wtf

Weird thing is everybody says this but someone must land the 110DMG shots haha

its always a newb that hits the high damage, must be aiming way behind the model and just clicks and hits somehow.

Hi, I'm a random newb, but lately I've been getting the shotgun to do lots of damage and easy kills. Even complaints about it. I'm still bad, but at least I'm getting this weapon to work for me so I thought I would share.

I saw Anhedonic's thread a while ago, which was helpful at the bottom so check that out.

To get a good a hit I have to put the cross hair on the opponent just like I was shooting a rail. At first I wanted to be lazy, but that wasn't working. I can't be lazy. I try to be as dead on with it as possible and I get much better results even at a distance. But it's still random. I can take the same shot twice, and one time it works and the next it doesn't.

To really make it work I have to get closer to the opponent than I would really like to. Like dumb close. Us newbs are dumb enough to do that and take the shot without any plan whatsoever if opponent doesn't immediately drop dead. I still do this all the time and my hitbeep tells me I did a lot of damage, but he's not dead. So it's like oh crap, he didn't die!! Now what? OMFG dead... So, that might explain why you always see it from newbs.

I haven't seen any 'noob' so far who used SG on me in duel - unless that was their only weapon pickup

I'm not sure what you mean. I was mostly talking about TDM, freeze tag, FFA, and CTF or in situations where shotgun is all I have and I have to get the most out of it and what worked for me and guessed at maybe why it seems newer players always get "lucky" with it. I play more TDM and FT than I duel. I find it a useful weapon in those modes. I didn't mean to imply it was the greatest weapon ever or anything like that.

If shotgun isn't as useful in duel than other game modes then it just won't be used there as much. But why that is, is for actual skilled duelers to talk about I suppose.

my answer is: you clearly are no noob for understanding how sg works efficiently :D

i think this is the case for a lot of people, they are new and learning the game so they just suck and decide to pick up the most noob friendly gun and concentrate hard on improving with it. fast forward a week and bang!, you have a person who sucks at strafejumping, timing, map control, rl, lg, rg, everything but then he shoves a shotgun up your models ass and does a 110 hit and that pisses you SO much exactly because he seems bad at everything to you

10 years I've played this game and never mastered shotgun but I like it and find it totally ok at present ;D

a slight increase in spread and non random spread would be good, maybe a small dmg buff in tdm/ctf aswell

maybe a small dmg buff in tdm/ctf aswell

I doubt the thread was made to request id to add a homing instagib shotgun tdm devpick tbh :D

nice idea, id should make a devpick with it

nah they wouldn't make it tdm.

Take a look at the images I posted, I'm not sure if any older versions would help, it kinda needs something new, I'd say a mixture of cpma + QL randomness, I know it felt quite overpowered in closed beta, the new one is just odd to use.

CPMA SG ftw :)

nice thread you posted btw.:>

Whenever you're in trouble on a FFA serv, play SG only and enjoy an easy win!

I like sg the way it is :)

for duel is balanced tho and its definetely under used . With a nerf it would become totally useless , so just make it more consistent , less random but as powerfull (at least for duel mode , for tdm and ffa it could deal less damage )

I kinda like the randomness in duel because it is easy to hit with it. For example you know that your opponent will die if you use the rail in a lg fight and you could kill him. But if you miss you are dead so you decide to use the sg but it doesn't grant you the kill.

agree..

same goes for mg in duelling.
in tdm on the other hand, both weapons are too strong.

i would be all for trying fixed & a little bigger spread

main problem is that the bullets in the inner circle do too much damage (70) -> mini railgun

solution: every bullet should do the same damage + wider spread

Yes! Very elegant solution. + for you. :)

Agreed. Its ruining TDM atm!!

If SG is overpowered so is RL... I mean RL is balanced when playing with 60 ping or over, but with 20 or less it comes ridicilously overpowered compared to any other weapons besides rail, when it comes to how much it is possible to give dmg without taking any dmg.

ah yes the rocketlauncher - the most ping dependant weapon...

My solution : smaller more focused spread with max damage being ~70.

you that guy who made a thread about stupid people?

No, that was my friend.

I rest my case.

It's simply an idea.. here's why I think it might work :

mid-range is more useful.
shorter range it deals less damage = no rage when u got fked over with 200/200 vs sg.
more aim, less luck.

It may be a idea that you don't agree with, doesn't make it or me stupid though :P

your idea already exists. it's called a railgun.

Not really, rail is long to mid, new sg would be mid to short.

Rail vs anything else in short range is likely to get you fucked over (if you miss that is).

the whole purpose of a sg is to blow a fat load on someone's face from short distance. your idea is shit.

sg should do massive dmg point blank, and very little mid range

imho


so yes, you are right !

cpma-sg like, and change max damage to 90?

As far as I know they aren't in favour of cpma-ish spread.
What was the inner/outer pellets damage?

dno the exact values :(

In one way I like it the way it is and the other way it is kinda lame how much damage you can do with it.

I like it mainly because of me spawning near a shotgun and having a weapon that allows me to do something immediately, without having to look for another weapon first, is quite nice (f.e. guy just killed me and I know where he's going, I get a shotgun and blast him around the corner for 110 damage).

I also like it that I somewhat use it as an anti-spawn weapon on some maps (like Japanese Castles) where players can spawn near you or in your face. He should die in 2 blasts then and not bounce in the air or take a long time to kill.

I dislike it, because someone can blast your armor and health away really fast before you can act. And the random damage that happens from distance. I sometimes get hit for 40 to 50 damage from across mid level of an area while I am trying to rail the opposing player for 80 damage. He will get me down faster by spamming SG with that kind of damage, even though I am keeping my distance to favor my railgun.

Problem is that if you change shotgun to a settled spread, it has to be designed to not still do 40-50 damage from mid to long range, but 10-20. You have to figure out a good shape where that works. It might be that circle design that is in CPMA. I can see from long range only the two outer pellets hitting if adjusted correctly. So it might be worth a try and see what happens in practice.

But don't really know, I haven't been bothered by the shotgun. If an opponent manages to blast trough my health and armor stack before I kill him then fine. It still requires some sort of understanding how to use (and dodge) current shotgun. Sure even noobs can do the same damage as good / pro players, but are the higher skilled players really bothered with this? You will be facing equally skilled players in your tournaments anyway and you should expect them to line up good shotgun shots when they use it anyway. It's not like you see a lot of pro's playing each other and spamming shotgun from long distance towards each other. They still use it as a finishing weapon.

And yeah in team games it is different, especially on Japanese Castles. But a good rocket player can do some serious damage on that map as well, where hitscan players don't have a lightning gun to play with.

So I don't mind, but maybe a small adjustment in the spread would bring a solution to the long range damage problem. I agree that that sometimes surprises me as well :p

you summed up precisely what's wrong with the sg in your second paragraph. basicly: it's too easy to use and deal a lot of damage!


SSG in q2 = perfection

agreed, devastation at close range, useless at medium-high range, thats what shotgun should be all about

loved SG's dual personality in q2: most of the times you wanted to use the much more powerful SSG (non-q2'ers: SSG=supershotgun, uses double the ammo of reg SG) over the SG. The SG worked really well at medium distances, annoyingly but effectively peppering damage. The SSG point-blank blast was exactly like taking a rocket to the face.

ahhh q2 where ammo conservation actually mattered...

DRAVEN = Fucking whiner

thnx for the feedback kid

am i whining about a weapon in computer game?

No, you're whining about a whiner whose whining about a weapon in a computer game.

I can't even figure out what that makes you but its not good.
Then again I'm whining about someone whose whining about someone whose whining about a weapon in a computer game.

At least he has a point. Its BS, I die so often thinking the SG abuse will work the other way around, thinking it kills in 2, it ends up taking 4, by which time I usually die or lose my stack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6S5O97Np5M&t=1m12s

Its really a random feeling weapon and its too random for the nature of the weapon.

P.S.
Bonus 100 DMG nade spam. Nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6S5O97Np5M&t=1m45s

I always enjoy not being able to watch the crap you post.

god loves us!

I was thinking the same thing :)

No, you're whining about a whiner whose whining about a weapon in a computer game.

good thing you know your own language.

you dont get it kid, im just saying SG is broken cause sometimes it doesnt register shots or sometimes it does when your arround the corner, esr is afterall a quake webby if you dont like it you can always continue burning in hell k thnx

or maybe you enjoy playing broken games instead of fixxing it?

kid? LOL:)

sg was same in q3 and no one was whining, btw rg sometimes doesnt register hits, maybe make a thread about it too? also ql is unplayable on ping 60+ gogo make a poll

Best post so far m8

Q3 had a other netcode, and if im wrong the spread was differently? aswell ?

dunno, but sometimes it didnt hit when it should

armor is the same, sg is the ~same, high tier weapons nerfed except the rl = relative power of sg is much higher than in q3, even if sg itself wasnt changed

sg was same in q3 and no one was whining

care to elaborate?

Sounds like there is now a small glimpse of what tiered weapons may be like in QL!

I'm incredibly bias towards TDM so this may be a little rude...WEAPONS HAVE A 30SECOND RESPAWN. LEARN TO CONTROL A WEAPON YOU FEEL NEEDS TO BE CONTROLLED.

Ever watch QW 4v4?????????????????????????????????????? Sheesh.

control weapons, ignore armor/mega/important positioning/powerups

YOU KNOW TDM ISNT THAT SIMPLE

sometimes you just got to rush :P

lol?

Controlling weapons is an essential part of TDM in QW in ADDITION to controlling armors and powerups. You think to control weapons you have to stop controlling power ups and armors too?

are you trying to justify a newbified overpowered sg by saying - so what just control it every time? thats just silly.

the problem isnt just that its overpowered, which it is. the problem is also that its essentially a zero aim skill weapon with the current spread.

ps: if u actually played ql tdm ud realize just how shit it makes 4v4 games.

pps: there should be a similar poll/discussion for the armor system in tdm tbh. the vq3 armor system to me is well suited to duels but in tdm its almost pointless. i suppose you could argue that if the armors are weak teams should just ignore armor and focus on weapons/positioning to do damage more. and thats true. but it just makes for boring games where aggressive style is impossibly hard to pull off.

Well said [+]

You're not getting what I'm saying. Drexciyian is the only one who is understanding what it is that I'm saying and is the only one who has brought up a valid point.

Again I'm biased but it's just funny to read people whine about a tiered weapon in a TDM game, especially the "SUPER BALANCED" Quakelive!

Let's look at the tiered weapons in Quakeworld:

OK: SG, SSG, NG
BETTER: SNG, GL
BEST: RL, LG

Now lets look at what maps are essential for weapon control (IN ADDITION to armor/powerup control).
DM2, DM3, E1M2

Now Quakelive (these are BARELY tiered. A fresh spawn with good aim can rape anyone with an MG no matter the other player's armor stack):

OK: MG, GL
BETTER: RL, PG, LG
BEST: SG, RG

And I have to ask...in which Quakelive 4v4 maps do teams control a weapon? The first that comes to mind for me is DM6...where teams will try to control the RAILGUN.

Why do they try to control the railgun???????? Whatever you answer here..could most likely apply as to why you should start controlling the SG as well. =)

"ps: if u actually played ql tdm ud realize just how shit it makes 4v4 games."

I've played enough Quakelive 4v4 to know that it is shit..no matter if the SG is overpowered or not.
Quakelive is too balanced to have a good 4v4 game.

EDIT: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2003745#pid2003745

Read that post and the ones that follow it. Essentially you guys should be arguing that the other weapons are not powerful enough!

I think this part of his post

the problem isnt just that its overpowered, which it is. the problem is also that its essentially a zero aim skill weapon with the current spread.

shows that he does understand what you are saying and also agrees that tiers are not necessarily bad.

Just that the sg is a "boring" weapon. And then combined with what drex said, that pretty much everyone can get it and it's more or less either control sg or armors etc is what produces the problem.

The probelm being that for example yesterday frs got 30 of his 46 with a sg. http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/matches/pu...f796/tdm/1

if u were trying to make the point that since ql doesnt have tiered weapons or tiered armor, tdm is bound to be bad, then u were going about it in a roundabout way. (as in i dont see how defending a zero skill super weapon supports that point).

i do agree that tiered weapons/armor makes for a DIFFERENT kind of tdm style. i dont necessarily agree that the lack thereof makes for a tdm gameplay where control isnt an issue. i didnt play much vq3 tdm but from what little i played it and what ive played in ql, control is slightly less around items and more about positioning in terms of where u can get kills without risking urself or ur teammates unnecessarily. for instance dm6 rl.

i dont think ill ever like ql tdm as much as i like cpm tdm. so i would be in favor of tiered armor at the very least (tiered weapons is a lost cause since i dont see id changing the weapon balance that drastically). and i do agree we need atleast that much to make resource control important. but this is a personal taste more than anything else.

so yeah, average qw map has 1-2 rl's and 1 shaft. fucking e1m2 has 0 lg's and 1 rl. compare it to QL maps where you would need to control 2x sg, 2x rl, lg, rg + all the items. QL maps simply have more items of relative value to control so 1 team simply cannot control all of it, like in QW

edit: nigga plz dont start a qltdm vs qwtdm debate, this thread is purely about shotgun in ql

I'm not sure about this, but in QW the high tier weapons aren't trivial in their usage, right? LG has only few ammo so you musn't use it pointlessly and RL does loads of self-damage (especially with quad), so spawners rushing at you will cause serious problems.

On the other hand, the QL SG has lots of ammo, no self damage, easy usage, fast reload time; it's great to kill spawners which are close up, great to camp corners, great for finishing shots, even great for hide-and-seek scenarios against an LG, ...

Sure but most quake maps put sg out of the way normally next to a spawn, its a low tier gun for spawners to have so they arent really in areas of control

this.

strong sgs spawning in their current locations don't make sense in tdm. add to that now "unlagged" hitscan and a more powerful rl and this idea of "balance" plays out like a huge mess.

id seems to have abandoned tdm with ql and it shows: public tdm is almost nonexistent.

Fix random spread and lower it!

I agree - but for me from at the close distance everything is fine and it should be deadly weapon if you're able to come so close to the enemy

When it comes to the long distance it's fucked up - it takes even 40-50hp sometimes from such a long distance and it's always suprise me. How the fuck is that even possible.

It was perfect without random, now it sucks ass again. I Expect complete randomness insanity by the end of the year .

tune up armors

shotgun need to be like this (nothing random, just pixel aim) :

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3803/20101201042622762.jpg

and maximum damage for a 100 % hit, like a rail so only 80 damage

DEAL WITH THIS!

damn SG

you mean you don't like getting 50 sg kills on cp1 or ctf2? ya I remember the days where RL or PG was preferred but heck with RAILGUN SHOT GUN might as well only go for the shotgun attacks!

the sg as it is totally ruins tdm. it is low risk, high reward, easy to use but a powerful jack of all trades weapon. basicly EVERYONE hits same percentages with it, there's a few standout shitgunners but mostly everyone hits the same.

buffing armor wouldnt solve the problem, since relatively the shitgun would stay at the same level compared to other weapons, and opens up discussion about the balance of other weapons vs better armor aswell. armor buffed + rail 80 dmg = useless rail

you cannot control sg spawns either, since every tdm map is designed on the principle that shotgun is a low tier weapon, better than mg but only something you use until you get a better one.

increasing spread and nerfing damage slightly would make it much better, still devastating at close range but next to useless as medium/long range, as it should be.

edit: also as a side-note, it is a very dull weapon :D there's hardly anything spectacular about it, some quad runs if you get an insane amount of frags, but those would be awesome with any gun. maybe if you get 5x 110dmg shots in a row and wipe out the whole enemy team.. but anyway, boring weapon

who the fuck plays tdm still?

nobody in america.
we should really stay out of this discussion if you ask me. ;(

or any discussion.

aw how cute

1) Refer to Quake 4 shotty to see how shotty should work.

2) Nerf Quake Live jokeshotty to have a very wide spread over a distance and basically make the gun useless beyond close range (as it should be). Also nerf damage dealt in order to reduce newbabuse.

3) Watch newbabuse of shotty drop by 95% as baddies can no longer shoot at thin air and hope they hit a few pellets on an enemy somewhere, somehow.

4) Watch 50% of newbs currently playing QL drop it because "the game got worse with the new patch."

made a poll, tried to stay neutral in it, but god i hope something gets changed
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2015080

DRAVEN

check that super secret site out.

:>

i know they listened

I need jacket recommendations

someone remind syncerror that he wanted to give me access to the super secret site cause he is now on auto ignore again :o