Decrease rocket speed/splash damage

that's pretty much it, games are so boring nowadays because all players just +back after getting one frag
even random players in public servers get 1 frag and +back for 9 minutes with rockets, simply because anyone can get away with it

would like to see av3k and cypher back in their top shape, so that we don't have to watch 10 mins of pure +back and overtimes with scores of 0-0
you can call it what you want, but that's not skill, that's boredom

Yeah agreed, make rockets skilled again, good rockets are great to watch but +back runaway spam rockets are not interesting at all.

If id keeps nerfing all the weapons then QL will feel slower and soft. They should increase the movement speed and hitscan dmg.

insan3 got it all right.. just make rockets like they were in q3(slower and different splash) so that players won't be able to +back as much. Chasing somebody on ztn for example in pretty retarded.

I think that QL would be perfect with:
-LG 7-7-7

-Rockets like vq3(+backing was not really an option in q3, game results were like 18:20 or 15:7 or i dont know what, the point is that there was no 0:0 for 21 minutes like in rapha cypher. Not even if-22 could pull that out in q3.:P)

-Shotgun in QL is ok now..sucks mid-long but owns in very close quaters.

-MG is also great now..Just like it has to be.Good for taking down players in duels that are very low on HP and in TDM the nerfed version is also good.

-PG is fine i guess. Extremly powerful if you know how to handle it and completly useless if you suck with it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HItQd5T_4Ko#t=4m42s

In my opinion the weapon changes that were made in past couple of months were ok but rockets need to be changed. It would be a huge change. Styles would change into more +forward fashion.. Now if you check players statistics, every player uses RL 45% of the time..
To sum this shit up...Just make rockets like in VQ3 everything else seems fine!

*
this +15 minutes time limit

I would decrease the rocket speed but increase the splash damage to reward people with enough skill to hit near close rockets

never though u could say smth usefull

:o! vai é jogar co outro bacano

I think QL Weap. Balance is fine as it is atm. I perhaps would lower the splash of RL a little but nothing more.

The change I would make is probably lower rocket speed down to 900.

If that didn't work by itself, nerf splash radius by 10% as well, but boost splash to 90.

I don't think change is needed really..

decrease rocket speed

Good rockets should be able to keep up with good lg in close/mid distance. Currently this is balanced imo. Good rockets = direct or nearby hits. Therefor, reduce splash radius and eventually adjust splash damage to make spamming corridors less effective. Don't touch their speed.
I would rather get my hands on the weapon/ammo/armor system, which is boring in ql duel imo. RA should be more valuable than 2 YAs for example (-> more fighting for RA instead of backing off to YAs on dm13). And make ammo stacking more difficult please. Everyone seems to complain about rocket spam in CA but in duel its 80% rocket spam too.

duel is awesome as it is

weapon balance especially when looking at tdm is fine

but if there should be changes: 15 sec weapon respawn in duel and possibly 30-40 ups slower rockets could do it, maybe increase selfdmg on rockets to full 50 again

if you really want to nerf rockets (reload time, dps, knockback, speed,...) you'd have to go to tiered lg dmg again

I personally would love to see SG centered bullets buffed again

also armors system maybe...but that would be a rather big change

15 second weapon spawn with tl10 is not good IMO

you mad?

15secs weaponrespawn with 10mins TL wont make game any faster, 10secs is absolute max if we want to rise it.

Also, why we would need tiered lg if we nerf rockets? In close fights rockets will be overpowered though their speed / splash would be nerfed, since dodging becomes impossible after first hit rocket.

Slower Rockets
Slightly increase Rail reload
Make plasma better, not to sure how.

i would change armor balance, or make one atleast. and leave the weapons as they are.

Rockets:
-Reduce speed to 950UPS
-Fix the stairbug/ledge where someone can at times be standing 1 step up from where your rockets impact and take no damage while other times they take full damage when you hit the top of a ledge that they are standing over. Seems to be dependent on the firing angle of the rocket.

Railgun:
-Reduce ammo received when picking it up for the first time to 8.

Ligtning gun:
-6 dmg/shot
-22shots/s (132 damage/s vs 140 damage/s now)
-120 ammo on pickup (720 hitpoints at 6 per shot worth of ammo compared to 700 with 100 ammo and 7 per shot)
-200 max ammo (1200 hitpoints vs 1050)
-Adjust the overall knockback over a timeframe to be slightly less than now. The knockback value used adjust the LG would be calculated by using the total amount of knockback you would get if you hit 100% LG over 1 second. Then adjust the variables that affect the knockback to make the overall knockback slightly lower.

Weapon pickup:
When picking up a weapon from the weapon spawnpoint that you already have, the ammo should go to pickup value if you have less than that amount of ammo. If you have more then the amount of ammo that you gain should be 20% of the pickup value (rounded upwards). Having RL with 5 ammo would give you 10 on pickup of a new RL from weapon spawnpoint. If you have 12 rocket ammo you would get 2 new rockets for a total of 14. This should apply for all game modes except TDM where weapons spawns very seldom.

I like your ideas but have slightly differing opinion regarding the weapons. Weapon pickup I totally agree with though.

Rockets:
-Reduce speed to 950UPS
-Reduce splash damage radius

Railgun:
-Reduce ammo received when picking it up for the first time to 7.
-Increase damage to 90
-Increase reload time to 2000ms

Ligtning gun:
-6 dmg/shot
-25shots/s (150 damage/s vs 140 damage/s now)
-Keep knockback, weapon pickup ammo and max ammo as it is.

Shotgun:
-90 damage all modes
-Increase knockback slightly (not sure on values?)

Plasma gun:
-Increase plasma projectile speed (not sure on the values again)
-Reduce damage per shot to 15

Weapon pickup:
When picking up a weapon from the weapon spawnpoint that you already have, the ammo should go to pickup value if you have less than that amount of ammo. If you have more then the amount of ammo that you gain should be 20% of the pickup value (rounded upwards). Having RL with 5 ammo would give you 10 on pickup of a new RL from weapon spawnpoint. If you have 12 rocket ammo you would get 2 new rockets for a total of 14. This should apply for all game modes except TDM where weapons spawns very seldom.

From memory plasma used to be 3000ups in q3. Probably been 6 years since I've traveled that fast so could easily be wrong.

2000

Your point about the rocket spash failing to reg is spot on - really needs looking at.

It should be done with very small steps. But first of all I would lower the max amount of rockets to 10 to decrease spam.

Make every gun about 100dps

Plasma faster, but 4-7 dmg per cell.

Rockets 70-80dmg

Shotgun less random pattern, and more damage dealt with inner ring pellets.

Rail have about 70dmg

Machine gun stronger

This way every gun is actually useful. Most duels in Quake Live are RL RG LG, and everything else is rarely used.

Rail atm is something like 55dps and was never above 67dps in VQ3. Imagine what people would use if all guns were 100dps.

That's why I say to lower the damage. It still serves the same function, you can snap of a rail real quick, but it's not doing massive amounts at one time. Guns don't need to be all exactly 100dps in my scenario, but all around the same. I think this way will make the game a bit faster pace, allow for more play styles, and really just more dept. Like I stated before, all anyone ever uses is RL RG LG, unless in certain standard scenarios that everyone does, like spam mega with GL on ztn.

Read your own post again. 55dps is just slightly above half of 100dps. You also do not take into account the difference between how the weapons work.

Yeah I wasn't really clear in my reply. In this ~100dps scenario, you still have room to tweak the weapons in say focus groups or w/e, but the idea is to start out with quite similar damages. So we would get a rail to do about 70dmg/700ms or less, like say maybe 70dmg/800ms.

The way the weapons work is the same as always, though I would change the SG spread, and make the PG reload faster like about 5dmg/50ms. The main changes really would just be having every gun able to do around 100dps, and not massive damage in one hit. Only exception is the SG which I would keep at 100dmg, because the range you need for a full hit is pretty close.

Your ideas might usefull for a game like CS where everything is hitscan, but not for quake where PG is somewhat used at 200dps while rail is a lot used at aprox 55dps.

I think if it shot faster it wouldn't have to be 200 dps. Even with 200dps now, it still wouldn't do as much damage as a rocket as fast with 100%acc.

I have 2 courses of action that I would recommend that you chose from:
1) Go troll somewhere else
2) Take a elementary school math course + learn how weapons work in quake

Like I said, the goal of this isn't to balance the rl or tweak the lg. It's to make every weapon have a purpose and have more use. Just looking at your stats, it's clear that all you really use is RL RG LG, just like I've been saying. Now maybe that's how everyone wants to play Quake, and the way it's meant to be. I'm only suggesting what in my mind would balance the weapons out and give them an actual use.

How is that trolling? How is my math bad? I think you're just mad cause I'm not agreeing with you. Stop being a fucking baby.

Edit: this is what I meant by the PG doing less damage than the RL.

Your previous statement did not set a specific scenario, hence your statement was for all scenarios where acc is 100%. You found one scenario where the RL might do more damage than plasma (it would depend on the two people fighting standing on top of eachother due to travel time of the projectiles,) however you have not covered all other scenarios that fit the description you gave in your previous statement. You also have not addressed that you want 70dmg on rail with 700ms reload time when it was ridiculously overpowered with 100dmg and 1500ms reload time before the tweaks. According to the logic you used in the image, MG will outdamage RL over a period of 1 snapshot when the hitoboxes are 100 units apart. as the rocket must travel You should take a logic course in addition to the math course.

From all your posts it is obvious that you do not understand how QL weapons work or the concept that different game modes give different weapon usage patterns. Funny how you use PG as an example when PG can be a beast in the right hands and the right situation. Having equal efficiency on all weapons would downright destroy TDM as there would be very little to control on the map. RG is one of the most important items to control on a map like DM6. Limiting people's access to weapons is what makes all weapons used, not some "lets tear down the entire weapon balance and try to make very different guns equally useful in all situations."

This will be my final post as it is pointless to try and have a meaningful discussion with someone who doesn't understand the game.

What part of my posts did I say anything that contradicts how you think weapons are used? None.

The "logic" I used is very dumb down so idiots like you can understand it, I even drew it in pretty colors to make it even better for you. Obviously there are many more factors, but I'm not going to waste all my time on that shit. This is hypothetical, like the picture says.

According to the logic you used in the image, MG will outdamage RL over a period of 1 snapshot when the hitoboxes are 100 units apart. as the rocket must travel You should take a logic course in addition to the math course.

What the hell is "1 snapshot"? Of course, if the enemy is very low health, the mg would indeed be quicker. The point of the picture is to show how dps is irrelevant when comparing weapons, like say the RL and RG to the LG or PG. Since the reload time on them is much greater, but a single hit will deal much more damage.

The reason the 100dmg rail was op, was because it was 100dmg. If it were lower, you would need to have more successive hits, as well as more ammo. The rail as it is now is still quite strong, regardless of it's dps, as stated in the previous paragraph.

Since you're not posting anymore I'd like to close this off with...

s2c.

If you make every gun 100dps then plasmagun will not be used by anyone.

Also its not that easy to balance weapons, since there are more elements to balance than raw dmg.

Making the pg fire faster, and maybe higher the projectile speed would make it much different, more usable. If it was kept at 200dps it would utterly destroy everything.

another lg? please

the point is to have a lot of different kind of weapons so it takes different kind of skill set to use them.

It's not another LG, it's a PG that you can use more than twice a game.

Remove rocket launcher from the game

Don't like this discussion at all.

I mean 5 pro players started to play more +b, thus the low-scoring game, and suddenly people think that there is a need for a change to the weapon balance. I mean Spart1e, DaHanG, Guard and few others still stay true to their style and it's working well for them.

Besides that why should we change a game if this "problem" only occurs in pro-circut (~20 players?) where actually money is on the table. I don't have problem with balance, I enjoy the game as it is, I can play +f or +b and lose/win, don't care really as long as it's fun. Surely if you play someone who is really good with abusing +b it's annoying as fuck at times, but I can live with that.

If you nerf rockets, you'll destroy Quake's beautiful nature. I don't see whine on the QW scene where the rl is ridiculous and I'm pretty sure that there are plenty +backers as well.

One thing I would actually change is respawn system to more random.

Rocket speed in QL was increased, movement was not. Rockets were already very powerful in VQ3, they are a lot stronger now. In Q4 they at least increased the acceleration (ground and air) when they bumped the rocket speed.

the problem is worst with casuals. I just finsihed an 18min game in ztn btw and it wasn't fun. At least, I am glad that didn't let him to +back bully me, because that is what they do.

and I am not cooller, which makes it much harder.

what do you think happens to the pro-circuit and later on to the regular scene? its going to die IF the most optimal way to win is a boring shitfest that everyone who wants to get "better" is going to imitate. i fucking love quake but i cant bring myself to play duel, its so boring and un-quakeish, you have to do your best to avoid everything that is fun in quake, just camp until you get 2 good spam rockets and hit a rail, then push for a frag.

QL duel is just an excersice in frustration, you can so clearly see much inferior players doing well in duel just with pure rockets and defensive play. especially at the level where people arent hitting 38% shaft 65% rail, rockets dominate even harder. i never was any good at duel myself, but i like(d) watching it, insane, intelligent aggressive moves and outsmarting opponents etc. now 99/100 of 'best decisions' are just backing off

you wont see a lot of new people popping up in pro/top-circuit if you have to abandon everything that is fun to reach it

oh and i definately dont want a pure +f game with rushing either, we need a game that suits several styles. avek used to be my favorite player by far, now QL has just neutered him to a shade of his former self

about QW, even the qw players themselves say you need to be a special kind of person to enjoy qw duel, that's why its not as popular as qwtdm for example

TDM >>>>>>>>>>>>> DUEL

If you are about to play someone with positional +b game style and especially in tournament where money is on the line, changing weapon balance won't change much, you'll see probably even more +b rail/rl boring fest. I blame the players who developed that kind of play style (first rapha, other tries to copy it), not the game.

If you look back at QL, you'll see that at first we had huge dynamic games with big scores. Nothing has changed to the rl since then so what happened? Pro players have realized why actually rapha is wining every tournament. Strenx was one of the most aggressive players and now he's one of the most +b. Avek lowered his aggression, same goes with Cooller. Still you can play your game (Spart1e, DaHanG, Guard, Fazz) and be successful at it but I agree it's a harder task.

If IEM was on Q3/OSP/CPM I think you'd see the same kind of play. Sadly the game has developed to +b but its the players, not the game as I said. If you'll try to change that, you'd need to weak rl drastically but then again it wouldn't be Quake any more. Maybe changing armor system would do the thing, I don't know.

I play duel and seriously I don't see this +b trend in publics and I play basically with everyone so I don't see the problem from my pov. It's just sad that the game might die because pro games are getting boring as fuck. I can't see how +b game wouldn't be rewarding regardless what you fix or not.

Yes, TDM is great.

LOL, if game favours some kind of style you blame the players who are good enough to find it out and start playing like that?

The fucking flaw is in game.

And even if RL would be significantly nerfed it will still be used IN EVERY CLOSE RANGE BATTLE. So quake will still be quake.

And what would that do with changing RL? +Back would be even more +back x2.

I am sure you run from long range/medium range towards your enemy raining rockets... very effective (no matter that till rockets get to him, he will land rail/rocket and back off behind the corner).

And qw rockets are powerfull, as all other weapons there.... they all deal shitload dmg(I like that), not only the RL. We all say that RL needs to be rebalanced, if you ask me I prefer to buff other weapons, but as I know id....they will nerf, again.

Agree with you. I saw much more rocket spam when hitbox was reduced... this was BAD change, even pros want it reverse... it was just wrong, because hitscan is weaker now and people prefer to go easiest way...rockets(with the fucking bounce shit....not that hard to hit second perfect rocket). And I don't think to be good at duel you need to time/+back and be good with RL... sadly, as you said - there are many duelers like that.

- set rockets speed to 900
- change respawn system to like it was in q3 (there was more action with that)
- Set timelimit 15 for duel

Changing rockets and spawn-system is most important than tl imo.

P.S
What is the difference in strafe jumping between QL and cpma/vq3? Is this the same or jumps height is lower in QL?

Direct hits with RL are too easy now.
Q3 rockets, everything else is fine, maybe mg 6 for duel.
Q3 ammo system, 15 sec weapon respawn or QW deathmatch 3 system.
Q3 spawn system without random but instant respawn like in Q1, 3 sec max. delay.

Forget about one-size-fits-all when it comes to different modes.
Armor system for duel seems fine, for TDM Q1 or CPM ones are most likely more fitting.

Ups, replied accidently:)

if this game starts being like warsow aka endless weapons tweaks, endless gimmick tweaks, i'm gonna unsubscribe from premium at the end of the year, or probably even earlier, if it's possible...

the real "problem" with this game, at least if you consider it as a problem, is that it's not as fast-paced and hectic as QW, CPM, PK or even warsow. No matter the changes you will make to "balance" the game, it won't change the fact that it's based at 90% on vq3 gameplay, which means that you just CAN'T go +frwrd rage mode all game long unless you're some superhuman practicing the game as much as a pro korean starcraft player. Otherwise, especially in duel, it's not a matter of raw skill anymore, but more a matter of who will outsmart the opponent, who will be the most professional, the most patient, who will make the most accurate calculation in order to beat his opponent. You got like unhuman shaft aim ? Doesn't really matter in duel if you wanna be the very best duel player at least. You got some insane rail skill, you won't go far if the only thing you're able to do is rail whoring all game long. People complain about rockets, the real problem aren't rockets, it's just the gameplay, and the map, and also... the players. DON'T underestimate rapha's rockets skill, or any other top player's rockets skill. At that lvl, what they are doing seems so obviousand easy to do, while in reality they practiced for a long time and got a massive amount of experience, that's why when they use the rl, they don't go like "super sayen 3" mode, they don't go like "grunt rage +frwrd mode", they stay "professional" aka "ok, all i have to do is to stay calm and spam exactly there and there, and then do this move so that i can shot there and be as much effective as i can in this specific situation". And when you play someone at your lvl, and if he keeps using rl defensively 80% of the map, you're either playiing the wrong map or you just try to impose your own playstyle instead of adapting your game to the opponent playstyle. It's always much more fun to impose your playstyle and rape, but a true "professional" has to adapt EVERY fucking time, even if it's not fun, the main goal is to win, not shwoing how long is your dick, if you know what i mean... And in this case rapha is probably one of the best example of a true professional player.
Instead of whining endlessly about the weapon balance, just try to adapt, or change your playstyle, as simple as that. Perhaps the rl is like 5-10% stronger than any other gun, so what ? It's quake after all, and quake is supposed to be based mainly on rl, and it's not as if the other tier3 weapons (rail, lg) were useless, actually it's far from that. You want to be the dominator with lg,rg ? You want to be able to counter any rocket whore, even if he's pro ? Then, be patient, take quake as if it were your job, and... p^ractice, practice, practice (c) fatal1ty. In like 1 or 2 years you'll probably finally be able to beat any rocket hero without even trying to adapt to their playstyle aka using the rl and start multiple rl battles until the end of the match. If you complain about people going defensive all game long when they get the 1st and 2nd frags, here again, deal with it, it's quakelive, not CPM, not QW. As most people will they, use your brain instead of wanting to dominate with your strongest weapon, accept the fact that you have to "feel the pain" in order to win the match, so yeah, this way, quite a lot of your duel matches will be boring for sure, but that's quake, you have to choose between having fun or winning. Otherwise, don't play duel, and go play QW or CPM.
Also, if your try to analyse the games (which means your games as well as the IEM games) you will probably notice that if the rl is probably dominant atm, it's not really cuz of its speed or splash radius, but more cuz of the maps. Yep, the MAPS. Look at dm13, look at hektik, probably even aerowalk, in these maps, it's quite easy to get a good angle and spam rl effectively when you're playing defensive. Alsoso, the tighter the map, the harder it is to abuse the LG, or even the rail. Dm6 in this case was a pretty good map, cuz you had a quite a lot of space to LG whore as you wanted to. But in a map like FuriousHeights, for example, it's harder to use the lg cuz of the angles and the multiple "pillars" all around the map, but if you get a real good lg aim, it's still possible to do it.
Tbh, if you asked me what should be changed in this game, i would rather go for the armor system and the maps instead of the weapon balance. With a more "pro" armor system (maybe a bit more cpm'ish one) and better maps (fuck dm13, fuck hektik, fuck dismemberment), you would most probably don't see as much defensive and "boring" playstyles as we are currently seeing in a lot of duel matches.
So, really, people, get a clue, stop your wannabe nobody's whine, learn to control the mental pain, grow up, be more professional, and play thunderstruck 1v1.

I don't understand American. English please.

yes my american no good me knows. sry, used to be french and learned american mostly by myself (andd a bit at school when i was a loser), so don't be rude with me pls man.

You post was fine, though when I read the last few words, I felt like I got belair'd.

I'm American and even I didn't understand this post. Paragraphs that, br0.

He's French.

Imo the problem isn't any of that, but that anything but the RL RG LG is basically useless. The other weapons need to be evened out and made a spaced for them where they are actually useful.

Yeah, in duel it's 80% of RL/LG/RG action, but it's good imho. Why ? Because they are tier3 weapons, which means that they HAVE TO be used way more than any other weapons. Basically when you play duel, you'll focus your strategy on taking RL first, then LG and finally rail. Or if you're out of control, rail then lg/rl. Shotgun isn't meant to be a tier3 weapon, shotgun is only meant to deal insane amount of dmg at very close range of finishing off a weak opponent, and in these specific situations, it works way better than any other tier3 weapon. Plasma is a very particular gun, i would say, although being in the same tier as shotgun (tier2), it's a very unique weapon with many different usages. One of the main usage of PG is spamming, either to get close to a rail whore more easily or to secure your +back move. It's also an excellent "trap weapon", rembmer fox PG vs rapha @ ZTN at the armor shards quite a long time ago ? If you manage to trap your opponent in the right place at the right time, and if your good with plasma, it's probably the most epic weapon ever. It's obviously also very efficient in tight corridors, and you can still use it in almost any situation and dealing some very decent amount of dmg (ok, for example, at mid range you won't deal as much dmg as someone with lg, but you can defenitely give him quite a hard time a deal enough dmg to then concentrate on your comeback right after your next respawn if you lost control of the map earlier). And if you watch someone like av3k play with plasma, in your head it goes like "oh, okay, so, basically the PG is an all around gun which can be very effective with smart offensive play".
Depending on the maps, the GL is definitely a great tool to deny items picking or to cut pathes.

Quake 3 has always been about RG/LG/RL fights most of the time. Perhaps you find it weird and unbalanced at times, but that's mainly cuz you're from warsow, which is a game with a very different pace and in all honesty I left wsw months ago cuz i was quite pissed of the lack of professionalism of the game. Don't get me wrong, i love very fast paced games, but i find it less interesting when almost everything seems very amateurish and even sometimes random.
I don't really like to say that, but to me QL seems more tactical than warsow, and the gameplay, although being more basic, seems very solid and makes sense. I like wsw aswell, but sometimes it's way too much about running around the map as fast as you can and going like "ok super sayen rampage mode, i'm gonna fly everywhere and spam with all the weapons in my weapon inventory", it might be fun i agree, but for a supposed competitive game, it's not THAT good, imo. That's why i would play CPM instead of wsw (at least if cpm wasn't dead), because CPM gameplay seems way more solid and "pro" and is still very fast-paced.

Oh, also, weapons like SG/PG etc might seem a bit useless in duel, but in TDM/CTF, they are definitely useful weapons, you can score quite a lot of frags with them.

I want to subscribe to your newsletter.

I agree with everything, and I understand how every gun is typically used, and when. I actually have no problem how QL is setup now, and I'm sure everyone that's been playing Q3 since whenever feels right at home. My suggestion is to make the other weapons used more. I don't care in which way it's done, or if they even consider it. I just think it would make the game more interesting, instead of watching every one use 3 guns every game. I view Quake 3 as the 8 weapon game with every gun having a purpose. Quake Live only has 3 really, just look at anyone's stats.

hehe ok ;)

well, in your case then,

wsw > ql :)

just like some people think that QW > all

but the reality is that even if you make ql a bit more wsw'ish, wsw will still be superior.

what i mean is that it's as simple as different tastes for different people, and also about what you've been used to.

I view them as different games, not alternatives to each other. So really I can't say one is better than the other.

WALL OF FUCKING TEXT.

exactly my thoughts

tl;dr

please use paragraphs and topics in order to make such a long post readable, now its just wall of text which scares the shit out of me...

Yes.

Sry, next time,
I'll try to

fix this is-
sue.

.....
so in short description - what did he said?

"derp a derp, rraaah ca is god, thunder 1on1 derp a derp"

Before I changed the weapon balance I would change the ammo system to like it was in Q4. Picking up RL would give you 10 ammo, picking it up again sets it back to 10 or just gives +1 if its already at 10. Less ammo to +back and spam with, and you may have to put urself out of position to get more ammo.

Its to easy to get max ammo and have a enough to +back and spam for a few minutes before having to get more.

I think the weapon balance is good; if I would change anything, I would increase the strength of the armor.

Am I correct in saying that armor absorbs 66% of damage recieved? How about make it 80% on a duel devpick or try it out in the focus group? It would reward the player in control further, as well as rewarding fighting over the red more, as the reward is bigger ofc.

I strongly believe its the armor system that needs re-worked in QL. In particular for TDM; maybe keep the 66% strength armor and allow a 300 armor stack? Or tier the armors like in cpm. I would really love to see some experimentation with this.

I presume CQ3 tried this sort of thing out; I've never played this online and don't know what they tried out. What did they try, and how did it work out with regards to armor system changes?

Apologies for being a little off-topic, I just think this could solve the problem of QL being too defensive without the MEGA-RAGE that further weapon tweaking would surely ensue.

this!

Something needs to be done with rocket launcher. It should be the dominant weapon but not to the point where you get punished for making the move first. Games shouldn't be about one guy waiting for the other to over-extend himself (especially when sometimes nobody chooses to to be safe)

Perhaps faster LG. I'm not entirely sure about this since the LG is fairly balanced as it is, but a tiny buff [read: TINY] would be nice. Slightly nerf on rocket launcher and it's all fine.

We can't really blame it on maps because maps like dm13 have always been like that.

100 railgun damage

Considering that QLs current rocket values are:

1000ups speed (used to be 900 in Q3)
120u splash size (same as Q3)
1 to 84 damage scaling (used to be 1 to 100 in Q3)

I wouldn't mind if the splash size is reduced, but then return the original damage scaling. The RL must remain a powerful gun, yet its spamming issues need to be addressed. With a smaller splash size the RL would require more aim and less blind spamming, but it would still have to stay strong.

same splash as q3 but ql maps are oh so slightly smaller in size wich translates in monster splash clusterfuck , and +back direct shit in your face , and them rockets are fucking fast for yhe smaller overall size of things

+more bouncing.

agree with this. decrease splash size but increase max damage.

agree

1000ups speed (used to be 900 in Q3)
120u splash size (same as Q3)
1 to 84 damage scaling (used to be 1 to 100 in Q3)

what about :

1000ups
100u
1 to 94

?

btw, don't forget that RL isn't supposed to be a sniper, but rather a "nuclear" weapon, if you know what i mean. Would be stupid if you had to aim almost the same way with rl than with rail.
For example, if you make the rl like :

1200ups speed
70u splash size
1 to 70 damage scaling

i would then call it "sniper RL". As everyone knows already, a good RL is a RL which doesn't force you to make direct hits rockets, and which allows you to make a quite good amount of dmg even if you constantly aim not directly on the target, but close to it.

The worst settings you could have for RL would be something like :

120dmgs full hit
1300ups
60u
1 to 60 dmg sclng

would mean that you're basically forced to make direct hits to be effective with this weapon and... it would be quite easy to do it 80% of the time.
So, if you want to tweak the RL, don't reduce the splash radius too much, cuz a RL with a small splash radius is a fail RL imo.
I also think that the current rl projectile's speed is fine. 1000ups is definetely fast for a vq3/ql RL, but still far from being almost instant, i would say that 1000ups is the perfect balance. If you make it go faster, it becomes impossible to dodge, but if you make it go slower, it becomes like OSP rockets, aka boring rockets. 900ups is definitely not enough, 950ups is quite good, but now that everyone is used to 1000ups, i don't think that it would be a good move to remove -50ups from the current rl speed. And i'm not even sure if it would fix anything, tbh.
The current QL rl's speed is pretty nice.

edit : but if you really want slower rockets, then i would suggest this :

950ups (-50ups)
110u (-10u)
1 to 94 (+10dmg)

sniper RL sounds fucking awesome.

imagine katyusha with a sniper scope

900 is not enough you say, go play q2 :D. Now seriously, 900 was just fine in q3 where maps was bigger, in ql it will be fine too. For me id need to revert to q3 RL(900ups and q3 bouncing).

first i would just change the ammo system back to the q3 one, maybe even add a 10 second weapon respawn and reduce max rockets from pickup to 8 or so. this would reduce spam and make ammo boxes far more important

see how that works out and go from there

qw shotgun, rockets and lg
q2 sshotgun and railgun
q3 cpm movement and netcode
q4 hyperblaster

:D

Don't see how reducing rocket speed will stop the +back problem. Although i can see how reducing splash size might help. Instead of these stupid devpicks, the admins should put something useful for once.

with lower rocket speed your not going to go for a direct rocket hit.

Reducing rocket speed would help a bit as it would give people a slightly longer window to cross doorways and make it harder to juggle opponents if you hit a good first rocket. Main part of the +back problem in duel is that players almost always have a ton of ammo and 5 second weapons spawn time. If you have 7 rocket ammo before a fight, go to RL spawn where RL will most likely be available and get another 10 ammo so you can spam. If weapons are harder to come by and you have to either pick up a weapon from a dead opponent or pick up ammo boxes to get a significantly larger quantity of ammo than the weapon starting ammo then players would be more conservative with their spam.

-Decrease rocket splash radius
-Decrease rocket projectile speed a little, 50 ups max
-MAYBE decrease the knockback value a bit, so one can't be pushed out of position / cornered so easily, but this could easily fuck the weapon up
-Also something should be done with the plasma, currently it's kinda useless online, but I really don't know what would help it.

the max ammo idea would worth a try as well

-cpma weapon balance
-slight decrease of LG/MG

I like the game as it is now

Ofc with sucha strong rockets its very dif to chase down the opponent but on the other hand i rly enjoy doing it cos it requires superior movement

Now if we nerf rl in any way its gonna be too weak vs lg so lets just keep it as it is since quake=rl

Personally, I like how a few people call the balance "completely retarded" and a "joke" and so on in other threads all over the place.

And then you look into this unbiased post and most changes are in the range of "slightly", "a little" and mostly just two or three changes in total :)

And as soon as you realize that perfect balance is impossible as long as there are diffrent maps and game types, it's really not that bad.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be any changes at all (I find the max ammo for rl an interesting idea for example), but in the end we are just talking about "fine tuning", not fixing retarded mistakes.

this
people are often very uncareful with exaggeration on the internet

q3 rockets, dont touch anything else. the game is perfectly fine and the weapons are useful in their respective situations as is, aside from the rl.

if used right its _always_ the dominant weapon. close range you can kill anyone faster with the rl than the pg/sg because of its ease of use and lack of significant self splash damage.

TDM got de-gayed, now duel pls.

- Q3 rockets
- Old ammo system
- Old spawn system (or total random, maybe with the exception of 3 nearest spawns or something)
- Spawns need to be dependent on position of death and not killer's
- TL 15 min.

Okay, seems like a lot of people are complaining about RL.

Then if id plan to tweak the RL once again, they should go for either this :

1000 ups speed (+100 ups compared to vQ3)
100 units splash radius (-20 units compared to vQ3)
1 to 94 dmgs scaling (-10 dmgs compared to vQ3)

or this :

950 ups speed (+50 ups compared to vQ3)
110 units splash radius (-10 units compared to vQ3)
1 to 94 dmgs scaling (-10 dmgs compared to vQ3)
__________

VQ3 settings are :
900 ups speed
120 units splash radius
1 to 100 dmgs scaling

Current QL settings are :
1000 ups speed
120 units splash radius
1 to 84 dmgs scaling

WE WANT CPMA NETCODE

who doesn't :(

We are getting better netcode and bigger hitboxes i believe.

So we should leave weapons alone and test it out with these changes.

Bigger hitboxes = higher lg/rail/shotgun/mg accuracy and maybe even plasma acc.

So everything will become a diff balance than right now. Especially if the netcode is actually fixed so that rails don't go through, we know how easy it is to rail when ur not having any throughs or warpers on the server, so if netcode is fixed, rail gets boosted too.

So rockets might not need to change, we have to see when these changes hit.

what makes you believe that?

yes, do tell!

MG: 5 damage / 50 ammo.
SG: 110 damage / damage drop-off like LG but at a shorter range.
GL: 120 damage / 5 start ammo.
RL: 120 damage / 5 start ammo.
LG: 10 damage and cripple / 50 start ammo.
PG: 25 damage.
RG: 100 damage / 5 start ammo.
Gauntlet: 100 damage.

No weapon drop in TDM.
Q3 spawns.
No armor decay.
Armor providing 100% health protection.
4x Quad damage multiplier.
75% Damage-reduction no-splash/environmental BattleSuit.

Why no weapon drop?

I believe no weapon drop requires more coordination and teamplay to distribute weapons within a team, whoever has weapons becomes more important and has to do something with them. It makes kills matter more, currently you kill someone and they respawn, a lot of the times when they respawn they are dropped a weapon by a team mate. In Q3 it mattered more to get kills because that person would then only have machine gun and need help from his team to help him get a weapon. I believe it promotes stronger teamplay rather than knowing you can die and just be given a weapon.

When you kill someone who had all the weapons you know you've just made a massively important play in the game and dealt a serious blow to the offensive ability of the other team.

I'd certainly like to see a q3-tdm devpick.

It's a shame id have such a powerful tool to test all these possible changes, but instead give us devpicks with health-dropping and random grav.

+d for tdm except i would like to see tiered armor if the weapons are strengthened. in other words u also get royally screwed if u get caught without armor. not entirely sure about the no weapon drops idea. it worked fine in cpm, and im ok with it in ql.

ps: i think its fairly clear that people want to see different balance systems for duel and tdm (possibly for ctf as well but then again we dont see too many ctf'ers post here). altho weirdly almost everyone also wants to see consistent rule sets for every mode. i think thats really just wishful thinking. the way the vq3 gameplay is its better to have some differences in gameplay aspects between modes (think tiered armor for tdm but not for duel).

pps: since tdm has taken off for a bit in north america, we've had some pickups and when i go back to ctf it just feels so sluggish and mindless. its like ca with flags basically. small things like defs basically having unlimited access to ammo by picking up weapons again and again, and maps with no quad etc seem to make a huge difference. even on a map like siberia it works out the same because of the way the map is designed. the only fun to play map seems to be japan but last time i played it ql decided to give the other team quad to our regen about 5 times in a row. that was a lot of fun.

Keep rocket speed, decrease the splash range but increase the splash damage

personally i feel its hard sometimes to be aggressive with rocket unless you can get directs hits, you bounce someone around but the splash dmg is so low that u dont do as much damage as you feel you are

imo direct rockets should be highly rewarded, even a lot more than they are now, since hitting them is like 2x harder than hitting normal "groundshot".

Yes, I love diirect rocket hits aswell.

Tbh, I have more fun using the rl at mid range and trying to get a direct hit than going rambo-like and spaming RL 543636x at the opponent's foot.

true

let direct rockets create black holes in the map

I have done few threads over few months about this matter. My thoughs on it are still quite the same as before. Rockets are too strong. Problem is highlited really in corner fights, where player spamming rockets and holding position will win every fucking time, even if player rushing through have mad dodging skills and full stack.

At the moment its just way too easy to spam rockets without having any visual data about your opponent, rockets have such a big splash and high speed that in fights that are such close range as usual corner fights are you dont even need to "predict" your opponents movements. Its just enought that you constantly spam on the route he needs to take and due to absolute crazy rocket speed and splash he will take a hit no matter how he tries to dodge. After your first rocket hits he will be immolibized by the knockback and he cant dodge any of the upcoming shots which will result in you slaugthering him.

Conclusion:
- Decrease RL speed to 900ups OR 950ups and splash size to 100
- Atleast try 10s spawn time for weapons in duel
- Make additional weapon pickup give only 20% more ammo
- Limit max ammo of rockets and rail to 10 or 15
- Increase railgun dmg to 90 and add 10% more reload time.

and more on this matter on http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2043262 too

PG=Hyperblaster from Q4

F1.

No, it wouldn't work very well in QL, cuz Q4 was faster overall, more player accel, crouch sliding, smaller maps etc.

In QL it wouldn't make that much sense. What we need is a fast enough plasma (but not TOO fast), which means quite fast firerate and projectiles speed, with average sized 'bullet'. I mean, if the projectiles size is too small, it becomes too cpm'ish, doesn't make much sense with a slower gameplay, but if the porjkectiles are too big, then it doesn't make sense either, cuz it would either be under or overpowered.
To be more clear : when the pace of the game tends to be slow, you need bigger projectiles, but when it tends to be fast, you need smaller ones. QL's gameplay is a perfect balance between slow and fast/very fast-paced action, that's why PG projectiles HAVE TO be "average sized", not too big, not too small, not too slow, not too fast.

Also, look at Doom 3, the game was slower than quake, and the plasma was some kind of massive plasmagun lol, shooting big balls at a relatively slow firerate, but still, it worked very well with the gameplay.

Well they could at least tweak it with different variables in devpicks/focus trying to find a golden mean for it. I'd like to see pg more useful in mid-range where it's almost impossible to match vs lg, of course if both players are equally skilled.

"when the pace of the game tends to be slow, you need bigger projectiles, but when it tends to be fast, you need smaller ones."

Completely wrong.

slow & big

fast & small

just like in real life

If anything for change, I'd try halfing the RL splash damage in a devpick for all game modes.

This is the sort of thing which is perfect for a devpick :)

-15 second weapon respawn
-15 second ammo respawn

-slower rockets
-larger GL splash, maybe higher damage/splash damage, maybe higher velocity
-larger SG spread, higher max damage (= add another ring of 8 or so pellets around the current spread)
-higher gauntlet damage

(-BFG fire rate about halfway between current one and the RL one
-higher CG damage
-larger NG spread, maybe higher fire rate
-faster firing PL

-BFG/CG/NG/PL on duel maps)

lol no

The most important thing, the weapon/ammo respawn changes, to encourage more movement by having more necessary items on the maps, more weapon switching by having less ammo for the strongest weapons, more varied strategies by also giving the option of controlling weapons rather than armor/health.

RL changes to make it not imba
GL changes to make it better
SG changes to make it a more tactical gun (ambushing etc), and to make it more of a point blank range gun, also to make RL less imba in comparison
Gauntlet change so it's not quite as useless, but still not instakill

(BFG change to make it a bit less OP without being utterly retarded like in CPM =)
CG/NG/PL just so there's new stuff)

If we do any changes, there should only be one.

Change back to Q3 settings, 8-8-8 lg, 100 rail, slow rockets. Also, bigger hitboxes.

That way I instantly become awesome.

bring back VQ3!!111

lowering the RL and same health/armor parameters = more fight for a frag
more fight for a frag = more time for a frag. divide 10 minutes to more time for a frag and you will get lower number of frags
for TL10 this does not look like a booster to me

increase RL damage with 30%, and increase reloading time somewhere around 40-60%, this way you can coordonate your moves and "sneak" closer even around corners, if you get the right timing
those who complain about the strength of the RL are usually bad dodgers
from what I've seen so far superforward playstyle works still very well against RL when the players are well focused (most of the time to the end of the match when they have to make a comeback and they need to fight with all the strength they have left).
the way the RL works right now is that it does not allow brainless +forward attacks based only on stack, which is a good thing imo.

if you decrease the damage of the RL the guy who is not in control will run away even more than he does now, because he will have no reliable weapon to depend on

lowering weapons damage and keeping the values of mega and armor the same will only lower the scores, whatever the fine details
this is fuckin freakin basic math

RG is now a weapon of subtility

increase RG damage to 90
80 damage RG works well on open maps like t6 and on maps without RA, like t4
on the rest of the maps, which are heavy based on MH and RA, RG usage become a matter of subtility: you are 150/130 and your opponent is 200/200, you need to hit 2 rails and then you can position yourself to fight for the next MH
the way RG is used right now on heavy stacked maps like ztn, is kinda silly. many times I see very nice RG shots followed by retreat (because the stack situation forced the player to do so), and I think: well, such very nice useless RG hits

or decrease RG to 70 but make it so that it inflicts damage directly on health, going right through the armor



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know why people are so affraid of big modifications, QL came from the start with pretty big modifications and it worked very well
pro players will go pro and train 6 hours/day whatever the attributes of the weapons, and I'm not thinking abt the pros when I say this

my personal choice for experimental purpose would be smth inspired from a fictional reality so to speak, like this:
-PG inflicting suplementary damage 10 seconds after the shot, slowly decreasing the parameters of your armor and then the health (slowly burning the armor and then the health for 10 s) in this order, or temporarily disableing the armor, without doing any damage to health
-RG making holes in you, hits directly to health, going right through armor, damage 90% health, 5% armor
-SG damage 80% armor and 20% health
-MG 40% armor and 60% health
-gauntlet 100 damage
-RL damage 60% armor 40% health, direct hit 80% armor 60% health
-GL damage 70% armor and 50% health

all armors powerups:
-MH gives you additional 25% resistance to RG and PG for 45 seconds
-RA gives you additional 15% overall resistance to all weapons excepting RG and PG for 10 seconds, RG and PG damage resistance unaffected, gauntlet damage resistance increased by 70%
-YA gives you additional 10% resistance against GL for 20 seconds
(this way every powerup spawn will have a hell of a fight, instead just running away)
-shards make gauntlet uneffective for 12 seconds and give you 80% additional resistence per unit to all weapons excepting the RG and 500% percent resistance to RG for 12 seconds (for example picking up 20 armor shard will result in +16 resistence to all weapons excepting the RG which will have to deal with +100 damage resistance for 12 seconds)

based on weapons complex damage, you took RL/RG shots, you'd have to make the choice what to pick up first (MH or RA or shards)
I'd like to see rapha and czm doing the math now =p

lol

I like some of those ideas, particularly the rail which goes straight for health damage; does negate armor though and would lead to K1llsen's railwhore style being more effective, certainly something I do not want to see.

I think there is good logic behind your ideas for a more complex system, but the thing about Q3/QL was it's a very simple system, which also has great depth. Simple for the beginner to understand, even spectators who have never watched the game before; as well as having the depth for more advanced play.

With a more complex system, it would break this elegance, and put it even further away from a new audience/potential players.

Guess it doesnt really matter though :)

Leave rocket alone! It is the most skilled, more "bautiful" and satisfying weapon (who not feeling better after landing a few bouncing rocket combos?). And will we need quake without strong projectile weapons anyway?

It's better to increase hitboxes again (remember ql beta?) and do something with armors so you can survive 1st hit easily and reply with your shot.

- Make hitboxes 10-20% bigger which increases the effectiveness of every weapon compared to RL
- Adjust movement style slightly so that you are able to keep some of your speed going around a corner. I don't want CPM movement, but you should be able to rush someone that's standing around a corner waiting to hit that uber-easy first rocket. This would also make CTF infinitely more aggressive and probably benefit CA/TDM as well.

I believe it was dem0n who made a suggestion concerning this 'corner steering' way back in '07 or '08.

His idea was similar to crouch sliding where you have a short moment of low friction so you could steer around corners.

CBA to find his post though.

Ok so basically, we just need to play cq3 with a fixed dmg rail ( if it still not fixed ).

That would be awesome.
Really.

why wouldnt bigger hitboxes make direct rockets also easier to hit?

Somewhat, but most rocket damage doesn't come from direct hits. Direct rockets are usually done with easy shots anyway, where the hitbox size doesn't affect the difficulty of the shot that much.

but bigger hitboxes make it more likely missplaced rockets deal splash or more splash damage?

If you give me the exact proportions of the hitbox in units and the splash damage calculation formula, I can do the math for you how much lg and rail benefit from hitbox area/volume increase over splash rockets.

Other than that, trust me, lg and rail benefit the most from the increase, much more than rockets.

Like we don't remember what was like before hitbox change... other words: you are right. For me they need to put 10% focus group hitbox enlarge for public test, this maybe will fix the RL issue(and slight reduce of RL knockback/bouncing is needed too) :D
EDIT: shotgun,plasma,machine gun will benefit too(with is good).

I like this, a lot :)

Best post in this thread.

fucking crouch strafing q4like ftw

Something else which helps the +back'ness of QL is the movement. I believe there is more ground acceleration?

The enemy model accelerates a lot quicker than VQ3; so when a player is caught out, he has a far more powerful defensive weapon with the faster rockets and he can dodge/dissapear significantly quicker.

In VQ3, you see players in control just charging into a room where the out of control player is in, and unless the out of control player has anticipated this and is:

Stood at an exit to fire a defensive (and ofc slower/harder to hit) rocket, or a rail and continue to stack up.

OR

Is making a stand which will most likely end up with him/her dying, doing a large amount of damage with the knowledge of where he/she will spawn, with the intent of taking back control from that spawn.

Then, the out of control player dies with impact on the opponents control. Aggresive play was rewarded and had a good chance of success.



In QL, the in control player cannot +forward because rushing into a room with an opponent either leads to:

Pretty random rocket fights, players getting bounced all over the place: not a worthwhile risk.

OR

Cannot do enough damage with an lg without cripple, meaning the opponent can walk out of the room with sometimes not even substantial damage which, if it were VQ3, would be a near guaranteed kill out of the situation.

Aaaand the rail is weaker for players trying to kill as well as trying to break control.



This all leads to more defensive play in and out of control. An in control player really has to just "play it safe", and either very gradually wear down his opponent (which is very hard to do), or wait for a mistake. It is absurdly difficult to create opportunities/scenarios which consistently lead to kills, unlike VQ3.

I would love to see some of these things tried out in a devpick:

Reduce ground acceleration/return movement close to VQ3

100 dmg rail with a 2 second reload time/longer reload time; easier to make the kill or break control. More aggresive play all round

A tiered armor system like cpm's to reward the player in control further as well as making it very worthwhile for the player out of control to try and steal the red: the reward would be much greater

A lowered rocket speed or a much lowered splash damage; I would probably choose the lower splash damage of the two


Ofc not all at once ;)

What do people think about ground acceleration/movement changes, and how it impacts on aggressive play?

I think LG is fine as it is, in some cases it's useless but when trapping your opponent it can be really powerful.

RL projectiles could be a bit slower I agree (900 ups imo), as long as the splash radius is decreased and splash damage is hightened.

Plasma is good as it is in terms of rate of fire and projectile speed... but I would love to see the splash radius(not the damage) upped just a bit, without breaking or simplifying plasmaclimbs.

Hmm. Yep, LG is fine in the context of the other QL weapons, I agree. But on the other side, like Cooller and several others demonstrated after him, you can jump down from RA towards MH on ztn directly into Strenexens LG beam and survive and even get the kill which is wrong imo.

Strenx just sucks in that position I think.

Hmm.

Ok tbh I prefer q3 shaft :(

Original Q3 and OSP had a 50 ms delay for hitscan (IIRC Carmack put that in to even out ping differences) that made LG (and RG etc.) harder to use in normal situations while with a easy predictable target (jumppad or like the situation above) it was still pretty easy to hit high percentages like it should be.
It is an important part of why people refer to OSP as being balanced compared to CPMA/VQ3 where Arqon took the delay out so he and his cohorts could "prove" that Q3 is "all hitscan".

I mean the damage and behavour, the build in 'lag' doesn't only affect hitscan iirc?

Dunno, would have to read the src. About behaviour like how it feels? Recently played some QW, Netquake and OSP and everywhere the shaft (and the other weapons) feels better, I agree. More direct or whatever. Don't think its the damage though (I need ages in Q1 to shaft someone down:)

you sure that was not just the netcode, or was it the same at lan?

Pretty sure, yes. Same on LAN. LAN = Internet with short cables and most likely more bandwidth, there is no real technical difference, both use TCP/IP (UDP for Quake).
You can try it, start up Q3, fire a few rails, there is a small, hard to feel delay in baseq3/OSP.

vQ3/OSP feature a built in single packet delay (depending on sv_fps) which AFAIK has been removed in QL.

/e
Oh, didn't read the earlier stuff. Nevermind.

that must be why I hated OSP's guts.

Yeah, sometimes it's pretty obvious that lg/rail are weak... man so many times someone jump at me from RA(ztn) towards mega while I am with lg, I hit 99.999% of it but he don't care just rain rockets towards me. Same with rail, I hit once, hit twice, hit 3 times and enemy still rush at me like nothing happens, I mean...3 rails in a row isn't that easy to do, then I hit 4 and die from...yeah, rockets.

rockets are too fast and too easy to hit direct, im okay with the splash.

this is the key, because this weapon makes slow game the most sucessfull style.

it basically secures all your defense/+back game and is prolly also the best ambush weapon.

i go for

-10-20% less rocket speed
-90dmg rail
-1 point less on shaft
-stronger sg to suit them above (1rail+1midrange sg shot should always kill a spawner)
-1 point more mg damage

or just make it osp again.

"-90dmg rail
-1 point less on shaft"

stopped reading there

far enough ! the reasonable ones garding fluent gameplay are in :)

Keep the shotty spread, 110 overall damage...

You should be rewarded for landing every pellet, 80 damage is not enough.

80 only in tdm

For duel: Make everything more like Q3. Problem solved.

What a brilliant idea! Let's crown strenx world champion cause Quake 3 is all about LG and NOTHING else.

z4 would rape strenx on q3 easilly

Strong rockets also favor offense. If you nerf them, you do very little to make offensive style more effective.

Increasing hitbox means it is more difficult to chase the opponent through corridors without taking a defensive rocket.

I would make armor discard some splash damage. Non direct rocket = 25% dmg to health, 50% dmg to armor, 25% dmg is discarded. If you don't have armor, 100% dmg to health.

If the armor can't take all of the 50% dmg, only half of what it can take is discarded.

The knockback is also reduced as you take less actual damage.

This way, the guy in control, who normaly has more armor than the defensive player, is favored. His rockets will likely be more effective than the one of his opponent.

are you insane? faster rockets are, more they will favour defensive player since hitting slow rocket to moving player is a lot harder than hitting a fast rocket to moving player... where as hitting a slow rocket to player who doesnt move is still easy..

Just played some ztn and gotta say that players play that map nowadays so fucking passive, cant believe it. Like only committing for rocket fights and even for them only if they can get the first rocket... I really wouldnt mind if there would be some sort of cripple in shaft in order to make cornerfucking with rockets harder.

1) max RL ammo 8 in duel (ammo box - 4, when you take RL you get 8 rockets). If you want to just spam use GL
2) max GL ammo 8 in all modes (ammo box - 4, when you take GL you get 8 grenades) Increase GL splash radius +25%

put quad damage health regen and speed in DM, 1 appearence/match let's say @ 5 min

90 damage rail and Q3 rockets.

Also:

-Q3 spawn system
-Q3 ammo system
-Q3 step height
-15 minute TL for duel
-remove chain jumping

Nerf rockets.

People tend to forget that the so-called nerfs and buffs in QL were more adjustments made because Unlagged screw up the weapon balance by itself. LG is certainly not weaker than it was in OSP/baseq3 (LAN and online) and PG isn't stronger most of the time (online at least).

That being said, rockets are prolly a bit too fast now (even if it's less obvious when you play on a full server with 50ms+), but a Q3 RL in QL would mean in fact a weaker version of what we had in Q3, due to the netcode. I personally don't want it, thanks..

the more i think about it, reducing sound radius from moving and jumping would help a great deal. it is simply too easy to follow your enemy around the map just by sound cues if you are sitting silently and your enemy isnt walking. this would help out passive gameplay in every gametype. moving fast in quake shouldnt be such a huge disadvantage that it is right now.

fix the goddamn netcode

make everything as it was in vq3

$$$

osp enough said

I liked quake fast and with powerful weapons. It allowed for a wide range of playing styles and you didn't have to stack up for two minutes just in order to make a comeback/shift control. CPMA/VQ3 style all they, and with QL's RL so it would be as useful as the overpowered LG/RG.

This is what devpick should be for imo, also we should also have a devpick for nomip

remove +back cvar

do these:
-rail damage: 100 hp
-rockets - decrease the ups to q3 value. every moron can airrox in ql with this high rocket speed. takes sk1ll to airrox when rockets are slower
-pg - fix the fckn thing, it's so laggy when shooting it, so lame compared to q3 pg, which was cool
-remove the ammo limit (25 for rl and rg etc. is noobish)
-sg - 100 hp damage everywhere, all goddamn mods

sg is 100 everywhere..