you know

and so forth, you know?

and so forth, you know?

I know.

and so forth.

inb4 advent

Fuck wanted to post the same :(

in after basement dwellers

Furniture info or gtfo

I WANT MY PRO GAMING CHAIR/DESK/CARPET/LAMP etc.

rofl

x)

And suddenly around 12:00................COLOR!

past/present

i mean.... you know.....

anyone else fed up with this guy talking the same ancient stories for the 205th time in a row while efficiently staying the fuck away from the can of whoopass for years and years?

Yeah, i mean he just came up to thorin and started talking about this.
Its not like someone asked him about his past, you know ?

anyone else fed up with this guy talking the same ancient stories for the 205th time in a row while efficiently staying the fuck away from the can of whoopass for years and years?

It's not like someone asked him about his past and so forth, you know?

anyone else fed up with this guy talking the same ancient stories for the 205th time in a row while efficiently staying the fuck away from the can of whoopass for years and years?

Its not like someone asked him about his past, you know ?

anyone else fed up with this guy talking the same ancient stories for the 205th time in a row while efficiently staying the fuck away from the can of whoopass for years and years and so forth?

I know, and so forth

like what like em yeah em i mean like, *touch my ear* yeah like you know, like that if you do it like that. and i was like, you know, im not gonna play, you know.

Wow that was literally a facerocket. It's gonna be literally detremental to his momentum!!

xD abuuuuuuuse da words. id rather use those words then like like like like. dont u think? BITCH!

kinda fascinating all those non native speakers (even the eastern euro ones) are much enjoyable to listen to

That was a really really important rocket

sry :D

cue ischju fake laughter

at ur service!

u jelly

the car reg in the background is cool :D

is QL the only fps duel type game left nowadays (including consoles@joypad) ?

Yes. Did UT 3 ever have any major tournaments?

Shortly after the release of UT3, Enemy Breakdown did run an 1v1 and iCTF tournament.

http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=1524558

1st place Duel: 20.000 Ł
1st place 5v5 iCTF: 30.000 Ł

and were those prizes paid?

No clue.

yes they were :) i've got my money after 3 weeks or so.

share a bit with me!

Fat's in the closet. Discuss.

Are You In Denial About How Overweight You Really Are?

Read more: http://www.articlesbase.com/alternative-medic...z1GyzPvJc7
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution

You haven't learned much from last time have you?

you only love him because of the FAT part

advent™ polishes his peuter off Fat's pics. Discuss.

NO I DON'T KNOW

Why shouldn't you use accel in painkiller? I don't get it would be nice if someone could explain it.
Btw why doesn't he sponsor a weekly ql duel cup in the us? Someone should tell him :x

1. ORGANISE WEEKLY QL CUP
2. ADVERTISE WEEKLY QL CUP
3. PLAY WEEKLY QL CUP
4. PAY OUT PRIZE MONEY TO WINNER (100$)
5. ........
6. ????????
7. NO PROFIT

Why do you think Zotac makes a cup every sunday? But if Fat would make his own cup then he'd have to play in it as well :)

.

advertising their products.

If fat did it too he'd have to put way more money on the line though, otherwise it would look ridiculous. Not sure it's worth it.

exactly :)

Another thing is that in zotac there's the odd eastern Russia vs UK match on a german server, not 50% of west coast vs east coast 100 ping struggle.

Eastern/Western conference till grand final?


also where's that ESL National League ...??

Eastern/Western conference till grand final?

Not sure about what you mean, used eastern as in " über east ".

First step is to get QuakeLive played by more people in my opinion, after that we can start to get to CPL World Tour levels, but with profiting companies.

problem : q3 was popular both because it was great AND it was the beggining of decent internet connections, a massive increase in the nomber of computers/home and there still were lans so the community could meet ( and play, cause the internetz still weren't that good ). You'd join a server, you'd get fucked, you'd deal with it cause the whole thing was goddamn awesome.

In 2011, I doubt we'd get any big event without players, and players without any big event or some really good communication op. Join a server, get fucked, can't be arsed to deal with it, get back to another game where you can be decent at without having to try as hard.

quake could be the spectator game of europe just as sc is in korea. i mean you still can enjoy mma without being a black belt master yourself. easy to understand the game even at the first look, its exciting to watch esp. with good commentary. also the players are likeable and very marketable characters, not the 17yo uber-nerd types who just pathetic to look at. obv the first step would be wearing off the "free-to-play browser based shooter" with all the kiddygame alike stuff and promote it as a way more serious game.

well then, another problem is that for modern standards :
.quake3 looks like utter shit.
.quakelive looks like utter shit with some glittering powder
.quake4 still looks pretty decent.

Quakelive is a crazy ressource whore ( more demanding than q4, all hail the browser based shit and crappy code pasted on top of baseq3 - wonder if a netbook could even run it at 15fps ) + it won't get revamped until there's a real profit to be made, which won't happen, part of it cause it looks horrible.

If starcraft did "well" as a spectator sports in europe, it's because it never stopped being played in korea and there's the community aspect to it.

Community, organization, eyecandy are pretty much what we need. ( and maps/bugfixes which aren't gonna come cause the 2 guys and a half supposed to work on the game spend the two afternoons/week they should use on the game in meetings to keep the master server plugged in )

In other terms, wait for quake5 and pray.

just from my experience every other gamers who meet quake for the first time all like "omg its insane would never thought....". most of them think its a browser game. its easy to understand main principles in 5 minutes, and after the first try ppl understand how hard to aim well too. yeah the game doesnt looks so well, stream configs could be much higher detail but its the 100th thing to do imo. the first would be stop with all the kiddygame shit and let outsiders know how serious quake is. for example the first time i saw the crash course i couldnt decide if i want to laugh or cry... obv i played q3 a lot, but still for a newcomer i think it made the same impression

"Quakelive is a crazy ressource whore"

No, it's not. I understand you have issues with the game like lag, frame rate stuff, etc, but QL in terms of optimization, is way better than Quake 4. Quake 4 is bloated, and is a heavy game. QL is light and nice. I'm on an older system too, which has ran Q4 on it before. QL runs way better than Q4.

Ok, let me rephrase that.

Whatever they tweaked in the engine or their browser/server stuff makes the game act like you're trying to play it on a cyrix/cirus logic combo even though you have a machine that can run q4 at better settings than people would have hoped back when the game hit the shelves.

Wouldn't give a fuck if, as I thought when I paid good money, it was only a hiccup that would be fixed days within release. Unfortunately, it's still as fucked as it was 7 months ago.
Now if you really want me to start a survey in my surroundings, check each machine that gets subpar performances in ql and try to fix it, we're gonna have fun.
Masochistic fun.

I definitely think QL takes more than Q3 does, most likely because it's tied in with the browser. I find QL with Chrome is the least resource heavy (I use FF for regular browsing).

Are you using FF for both browsing and QL? Maybe try a different browser for QL?

Sounds like also you could have some driver issues or something. All it takes is one leftover file from old video card drivers and you can have a lot of issues.

If you need some help let me know. I think your issue is solvable :)

Prism - ff and ie are horrid, won't try chrome though ( google derp )
somewhat fresh install of xp, everything is up to date
close everything before even launching an online game, may it be quake or hellokitty online.

I'm def. not the most tech savy guy around here but maintaining a computer is something I've been able to do since I was 12 or 13 ( which means tomorrow in Advent's calendar )

I also think my issue is solvable by reverting the game to what it was before release. Would actually fix every problem I've ever had with this game - maybe not the snow shit causing drops on some random ctf map but w/e -

Back home I have an old PC that won't make q4 even budge. At the same time, it makes ql purr like a kitten.

Uhm, are you stupid or just blind? Quake 3 and live may have old graphics. But the design is excellent. Unfortunately, you can't say the same about Quake 4.

I'm with John Carmack on this point really, when Slasher asked if there'd possibly be a Quake5 (arena) game with awesome next gen graphics. Making the game graphically advanced wouldn't make it better. Quite possibly the opposite. It might make a few more people try it out. But those people wouldn't stay longer than it would take for the next awesome graphics game to come out anyway.

I was purely talking about technical considerations.

Now, if you're discussing personal taste, I DO prefer the way q4 looks, I actually HATE the way most of the q3 textures ( more into sci-fi/modern stuff than late 90's us cybergoth bullshit / bathroom tiles "oh look, scifi " textures )

And you totally missed my point. There's a difference between a game that looks old/isn't state of the art shader 4.3b and a game that totally turns most potential players off right of the bat. ql falls into this second category. Q4 doesn't.

I agree. Quake 3 had it's own distinct style graphics wise that still holds up today. The textures look crisp and clear. Oh and btw, if graphics would matter THAT much, why is it that CS is still so popular today and CS:Source is only a niche?

there is another difference obviously: everyone knows what a fighting match makes: style and technique and other skills... quakelive isn't as obvious what it takes to win a match, getting most frags duh, but what skills are there to be mastered beforehand takes 'a bit' more time to be known of :p.

but yea, got your point :)

That's why you have commentators that explain the game for those who aren't familiar with it.

perhaps compared to someone being really skilled in martial arts, we the mere mortals just know as less as a first time QL watcher knows about quake. but hey it looks awesome, one guy beats the living shit out of the other one, thats what we want.

I've always said that Quake Live streams should be done with high graphics settings. That's what I miss about Q3 GTV - with a good config, being able to make live matches look like as good as a Q3 or QL highlight video. I'm glad they don't make those with picmip 10 on.

Now while there are still some big, new Counterstrike 1.6 competitions being run today, I don't see much chance of one of the cod11/twilightnewmoon generation installing the game after maybe walking past and seeing it being played on stage, or accidentily stumbling across some of the match replays online.

But Quake Live does not fall into that same category of games that still have great gameplay, but also such badly aged graphics. You would be surprised at how good a simply designed map like House of Decay (T9) can look with high graphics settings enabled.

faerie_ Quake 4 is gone mate. You can sit around and pray for Quake 5 all you want but Quake Live really isn't as hopeless a case as you make it out to be.

I absolutely recognize I'm biased ( get those torchs and skulls/heads/ghettosatan stuff out of my way ) but I still don't believe it could be popular with nowadays youguns. Needs more brown, more concrete, more SUNINMYEYESCAN'TSEESHIT, more bloom, more modern stuff.
People don't care about good design ( in the case a t9 something pretty minimalistic ), they want pure eyecandy, can't give them enough eyecandy = they won't even notice the game.

you have a point there, but then again look at what ratios we are talking about :)

the problem is that the current style of play often is not interesting to watch for the average person.. there's a lot of thinking going on during a dm13 match for example that an experienced player can appreciate and keep him captivated enough to watch, but to an average guy he's just thinking about how there's a dude with way more armor shooting rockets at random doorways.

A flashy game like painkiller or even cpm would have a way better chance at attracting spectators. I say this regardless of my preferences and it should be fairly obvious as to why the average person would prefer such a game! :>

"First step is to get QuakeLive played by more people in my opinion"

oh only that? well shit, let's just get that out of the way and have quake at the olympics!

i guess he will get raped if he plays those cups :p

- $5200 a year = fart for his company
- advertisement
- according to himself he loves quake so why shouldn't he spend some money/time on it (like stermy does)

well to be fair it doesnt make too much sense advertising to a group of people who all know about him anyway.

Isn't that kinda like saying Sky shouldn't advertise there products to those who use them already?

We're not the ones who use his products.

advertising product != advertising brand

That's why we need to promote QL in different regions. An extra $100 a week in NA or EU won't make any real difference. It won't bring in many, if any, new players. Most people in developed countries/communities function under the understanding they won't win. How are they supposed to compete with people who have been doing it for years? Sure, one person here or there can do it, but people know their limitations.

In places where there aren't communities already though, everyone has the potential to win. If fatal1ty wants to advertise his brand, do people in Argentina, for example, already know the fat-brand? There you have marketing potential and community-building potential.

Probably meant he used low sens and accel. In a game where movement matters that much, probably better to use medium sens / no accel or at least to bump the sens up to low-med if you still want to use accel.

Anyone else noticed the 1337 license plate?

horrible parking for a 1337 car though

Let's be honest here the all of you who keep dissing him at every opportunity are clearly jelly.

Credit to the man. You can say all you like about him milking his brand to the end and staying away from the scene entirely because he knows he wouldn't dominate like the days of old but he simply doesn't need to keep on gaming when he has nothing left to prove. He has a successful brand and an array of notible accomplisments under his belt alot more than some people have.

fUCK UP NICKY! (c) glenn

Also quakelive really could become more popular than cs or if I dare say sc2. All we need is dedication, a community spirit more willing to accept new players instead of flaming them. A solid map pool and more weekly cups than just zotac.

In my opinion the Quake community is more mature and open to teach new players stuff than most others. Well maybe if you play CA ;)
Look at all the tutorial videos etc. And there are lots of young players wo love the game and are willing to learn.

Yeah that is indeed true. It isn't the worst community and far from it but mid tier and above and alot of people flame in duel I find.

w/o ladders I personally doubt about significant changes... quake is not newb-friendly to be fair... and thats IT

I highly disagree. This community is not mature, it's more of a special club for players that have been playing each other for 10-15 years. They know each other, they make tournaments for each other, its always the same people playing each other over and over again, and its boring. I'm frankly tired of seeing these repeatable special invite tournaments for the same 8-16 people with same predictable results, give or take a player or two. There is no competition for lower skilled people, hell even the Anima Gaming and ESL evening tournaments are filled with semi pros who have been playing forever. Where is the competition for newer and even mediocre players? Thats right there aren't any, if there are, they are in with same semi pros and have no chance. If you don't build that base, you wont build a long lasting community. Normally this isn't the problem when the game is new, but after so many years its become too much of a niche for the few that new players are not interested in joining the club when there are other more gratifying options. So enjoy watching the same players in the same tournaments over and over again, because soon thats all you will have playing this game.

esl bundesliga?!

good points

Also, I don't understand why we have to always use seeds and why there are no tournaments with handicap.

I was playing competitive pool for long time and they never use seeds. Every time there is a draw, everybody is excited to see the brackets. He might be lucky and pass few rounds easy, or play the tourney favority in 1st game (I did many times). They also use DE brackets like us and many things are similar, but they are not as serious as we are. They understand that they have to give a chance to the lesser players; that they need to give them a reason to play. Using seeds gives them no chance.

Also, using handicap attracts much more players, since everybody has a chance. But we can't use that, since we are too fucking serious. If we use that, the 1st thing that someone will say is "how will make sure that everybody is on the correct handicap?". We don't! Even if we do a mistake in assessing someones abilities, it will still be a fun tourney. They do it in pool in money tourneys and we can't do it for fun only tourneys?

lower/mid level of competition has been dire in ql, i agree
glad that esl germany is taking care of it on a national level, 4sg does so in australia aswell it seems, hope more people will organize stuff to grow (or rather bring back) the competitive foundation of quake

agreed

Also why should he sponser quakelive when alot of you just flame him at every opportunity you get?

He surely won't make his decision based upon some comments on ESR if he even reads this ;)

he quit q3 because there was no money left

its about money, not about lovable&kind fans

or he quit q3 cause he didn't like the fact that the skill has gone up a lot + the competition became tougher.

just like he did with doom3, ut2k3, and oh yeah, the godlike duel game alien vs predator.

let's say that the year 2001 had 20k wcg, 25(?)k qcon, 25(?)k cpl babbages. no money at all.

ye i can see your point, i played from 2000-2003 and rally cant remember him being anygood in the later stages when the competition was fucking hard

that is not true at all. fatality did not played many $$$ competitions when q3 was still popular with big money.

7th place @ babbages crippled his confidence. daler, socrates and chaoticz finished him off for good.

fatality did not played many $$$ competitions when q3 was still popular with big money.

That's nonsense. Fatal1ty left Q3 for good after Quakecon 2002 and the WCG qualifier for 2002. After those events there was only a single event each year which had a first prize which was five figures in size, Quakecon, and even that event was not guaranteed it would be Quake 3 duel every year.

ESWC's prize money was a joke in comparison, Fatal1ty won more money from a single tournament win (Razer CPL) than like 90%+ of Cooller's Quake 3 earnings from 2002-2008.

During the time he was competing full time Fatal1ty also attended more high profile duel tournaments than any other player in the world. He attended two CPL Europes, a CPL Latin America and an Asian CPL as well as both North American CPLs. Then you can throw in Battletop and WCGC.

The idea he purposely didn't compete in Quake 3 because he was afraid of losing to specific players is patently absurd and only worth tolerating because it's fairly amusing as an idea. I don't think losing was ever Fatal1ty's problem, nor Thresh's, but rather losing on someone else's terms.

They wanted to go into a specific tournament knowing they'd practiced everything they could in specific directions so they felt like they could peak at the right time. Sure that's a little controlling, perhaps OCD, and not the same as guys who are really good players and just want to play as much as possible. Those were their choices though.

quakecon 2002 was basically a comeback tournament for fatal1ty. he quit in 2001. didn't attend wcg, got owned by zero4 @ qcon finals and did shit @ babbages, in no particular order.

(eswc appeared only to keep the scene alive, the prize money over there has always been crap obviously, and quakecon aside, there were no tournaments worth mentioning)

basically every notable success mr. wendel had in quake3 was @ the year 2000. everything. that a single YEAR. for fucks sake, if a year is enough to make a legend, look at shane hendrixson, and what he won in 2009-2010. does fatal1ty still look that impressive?

as far as painkiller goes, you can say that fatal1ty won when it mattered. or you can say that vo0 dominated the game through and through and had a bad day.

quakecon 2002 was basically a comeback tournament for fatal1ty. he quit in 2001. didn't attend wcg, got owned by zero4 @ qcon finals and did shit @ babbages, in no particular order.

If by quit you mean only attended two of the three significant duel tournaments that year then we have very different definitions of the word quit. He placed 3rd at CPL Holland and 2nd at Quakecon in 2001.

ZeRo4 smashed him on pro-t4, Z4's best map, in the upper bracket but the final was actually fairly boring as ZeRo4 took a lead on ztn and ran the entire time. Sure fatal1ty is in no position to complain about that bearing in mind some of his later style decisions in his career but as a spectator that doesn't count as getting "owned" in my book.

fatal1ty gave a pretty good reason as to why he didn't attend the WCG 2001 qualifier in the first part of this video interview. The WCG organisers told him he had a free autoberth to the finals due to being the reigning champion from the WCGC. That was actually standard practice back then and ZeRo4 received one for winning 2001, as did gitzzz in UT99 and LnD in CS and so on.

They then told fatal1ty only one week before the qualifier that he no longer had an autoberth and had to qualify like everyone else. Sure there's a good chance he would have still qualified bearing in mind Makaveli placed 3rd and got to go despite having only recently tuned up his game again but as I've outlined previously I think a big part of fatal1ty's game was having a cast-iron confidence that he was going into a tournament in the best possible shape he could.

From a fan's POV of course you want to see these guys at every event regardless, but some players want to stay within their comfort zone. Regardless he has a pretty legit reason for not attending in my opinion.

basically every notable success mr. wendel had in quake3 was @ the year 2000. everything. that a single YEAR. for fucks sake, if a year is enough to make a legend, look at shane hendrixson, and what he won in 2009-2010. does fatal1ty still look that impressive?

I don't even really understand the logic here. So are you arguing that fatal1ty isn't a legend because of rapha's victories a decade later? I don't see how the two are connected. Both are legends in my opinion and have acccomplished great things in Q3/QL dueling. Yes, you can become a legend for your performance in a single year. If Cypher had retired after 2008 he'd have been a legend in my opinion.

By your own logic there would be next to no legends in Quake since apparently you have to dominate the entire scene for more than one year. ZeRo4 won Babbage's (Dec 2000), Qcon (Aug 2001), WCG (Dec 2001) and got spanked at Qcon 2002, WCG 2002 and took 2nd at ESWC 2003. He then won Qcon 2003 and finished 2nd at Qcon 2004.

His Qcon victories all need to be placed in context as in 2000 he won a computer and there was no fatal1ty, czm or European players. 2003 there was no Cooller, who had just beat him up on dm6 at ESWC that year, due to visa issues IIRC. In 2004 czm had finally figured out how to win tournaments and ZeRo4 managed to pick aerowalk out of the hat against Cooller, who also had the same thing happen to him against czm. ZeRo4 even drew his best map, pro-t4, against czm in the final and still lost.

The point is not that ZeRo4 was not good, dominating or a legend. He was all of these things and easily one of the top 5 quake duelers of all time. The point is that he dominated for about a year and a half, over three tournaments and with all three taking place in the first 12 months of that 1.5 years.

If we went on your logic where only wins count then BoxeR can't be considered a StarCraft: Brood War legend since he "only" won two OSL titles and they came in the same year.

as far as painkiller goes, you can say that fatal1ty won when it mattered. or you can say that vo0 dominated the game through and through and had a bad day.

Or you could say Vo0 was practically godlike at Painkiller, won a ridiculous amount of smaller tournaments with incredible consistency, but fatal1ty improved as 2005 went on and showed he was clutch when it mattered while Vo0 was unable to deliver under pressure at the biggest moment.

I'm fairly sure most people would agree Vo0 was the best Painkiller player but that doesn't really matter when you're talking purely about winning. Wilt Chamberlain was by far the most dominant player of his era in terms of raw skill and ability but that doesn't matter as much when you consider Bill Russell went home with 11 NBA rings during the same time period.

Give credit where credit is due. The gods of Q3/QL dueling are fatal1ty, ZeRo4, Cooller, czm, Cypher and rapha. Each member of the pantheon had their own unique strengths and affected the metagame in a significant way, though czm less so than all the rest.

By your own logic there would be next to no legends in Quake since apparently you have to dominate the entire scene for more than one year. ZeRo4 won Babbage's (Dec 2000), Qcon (Aug 2001), WCG (Dec 2001) and got spanked at Qcon 2002, WCG 2002 and took 2nd at ESWC 2003. He then won Qcon 2003 and finished 2nd at Qcon 2004.

seriously there's too much text up there to reply to all, but have you actually tried comparing a guy who was in the game for a year with someone who was there for like...8 years, give or take? makes no sense.

rapha achieved 5x more in quake than fatal1ty did. it's a fact. yeah, these are different times, but tournaments nowadays are fully packed with the worlds best, each and every one of them.

and z4 didn't really get spanked at wcg2002 (lol), he got kicked out due to famous childish russian sportmanship... but he did play a certain showmatch with the guy who went on to win the entire tournament...so 2002 aside, he won or played the final in almost every tournament he attended.

I don't even really understand the logic here. So are you arguing that fatal1ty isn't a legend because of rapha's victories a decade later?

yeah, i'm saying that it's ridiculous to praise a q3 player who ran away from competition after the first year of the most skilled fps game. you can say that he's an extremely talented fps player, cause he was at the top of many fps games, but he's not the best at any of them, except maybe 9 months of quake3.

but i do praise the ability to build an entire fatality brand based on calculated risks and jumping from one fps to another before competition arrives.

btw

ESWC UT2003 1v1:

1 : GitzZz - 7000 $
2 : Zulg - 5000 $
3 : Fatality - 3000 $

wow, that's some serious cash right there. in it for the money eh?

L.M.F.A.O.

seriously there's too much text up there to reply to all

Cool, just leave out all the points I made then and reply to your own constructed straw men. It's easier that way, right?

and z4 didn't really get spanked at wcg2002 (lol), he got kicked out due to famous childish russian sportmanship

WTF are you talking about seriously? He lost to Cooller, who finished 9th-16th, and Logan from Spain, who didn't get even get out of the group and has zero solid placings at major tournaments in his entire career. If that's not getting spanked when you're the best player in the world then who knows WTF is.

so 2002 aside, he won or played the final in almost every tournament he attended.

Yeah, cos ZeRo4 didn't pick his spots at all or play in a lot of Quakecon events which had limited entries due to the registration setup and visa problems for other countries right? I don't remember him playing in the final of ESWC 2005? Or CPL Winter 2006? Or all those tournaments in 2008?

Oh wait he skipped the first two, funny only he's allowed to do that without being labelled some kind of coward/fraud, and then he did attend events in 2008 but never got close to a final. Quick, let's throw out 2002 from this consideration, afterall it's only the year after his run of domination so that shouldn't count right? LOL.

yeah, i'm saying that it's ridiculous to praise a q3 player who ran away from competition after the first year of the most skilled fps game.

He ran away from a lack of prize money and towards events/games with more prize money and potential future prize money. He didn't run from players. He turned up to Qcon 2001 and Z4 had his chance to beat him up there. He turned up to the WCG 2002 qualifier and people beat him there. He turned up to Qcon 2002 and Z4 had another chance ot beat him up, when Z4 was "the man", but the tables got turned and fat delivered the spanking.

Bearing in mind he started competing in major Q3 duel tournaments in Q3Test in 99 and Qcon 2002 was like 2+ years later, and he had still competed in more tournaments than anyone overall by that point, how that's running away after one year I have no idea. I praise him for what he did do, you criticise him for things he didn't do yet you don't hold others to the same standards. Seems like someone's biased, not least bearing in mind fatal1ty wasn't even close to my favourite player, in fact I preffered ZeRo4 and Cooller over him.

based on calculated risks and jumping from one fps to another before competition arrives.

zzz, you're starting to sound like a really broken record here with your bias and personal spin on everything fat has done. So he leaves before the competition arrives? He played PK with the best player to ever touch the game while that guy was completely in his prime and flowing with all of his powers at max. Then he beat that guy and ended up with almost as much prize money as him over a huge tour the likes of which duel FPS has never seen again in terms of consistent competition month after month on LAN.

Then he joins Q4 after toxic has already become a full on god destroying everyone and looking like he will win everything. fat joins, gets good and manages to get a nice 2nd place out of that. At the same time as guys like Stermy, av3k, Cooller, socrates, Cypher are all competing. Which competition were you waiting on to arrive for Q4 out of interest?

btw

ESWC UT2003 1v1:

1 : GitzZz - 7000 $
2 : Zulg - 5000 $
3 : Fatality - 3000 $

wow, that's some serious cash right there. in it for the money eh?

L.M.F.A.O.

When you consider he'd won CPL Winter 2002 and was practicing heavily he obviously thought he had a good shot at 1st, if not 2nd. And when you also consider zulg had the performance of his life to deny him top 2 that move makes perfect sense. UT2003 was still in the WCG at the time and looked to be the "next" duel game.

Also for context let's look at the Q3 prize money for the same event:

1 : cooller - 4000 $
2 : ZeRo4 - 3000 $
3 : M19*LeXeR - 2000 $
4 : fazz - 1000 $

UT2003 paid 1st-8th, Q3 paid 1st-4th and as long as fatal1ty finished top 2 he'd have made more than the winner of the Q3 tourney. Again, how are you not seeing that this is a finacial decision and not based on being afraid of playing z4 and cooller?

Of the list of Q3/QL gods I listed fat and czm are at the bottom, but it doesn't change the fact they're still gods.

If he was really in it for the money, he'd play SC.

There's no money in SC. Only SC:BW and SC2. Perhaps you're confused?

SC = SCBW/SC2

Yeah, cos ZeRo4 didn't pick his spots at all or play in a lot of Quakecon events which had limited entries due to the registration setup and visa problems for other countries right? I don't remember him playing in the final of ESWC 2005? Or CPL Winter 2006? Or all those tournaments in 2008?

Oh wait he skipped the first two, funny only he's allowed to do that without being labelled some kind of coward/fraud, and then he did attend events in 2008 but never got close to a final. Quick, let's throw out 2002 from this consideration, afterall it's only the year after his run of domination so that shouldn't count right? LOL.

zero4 attended every single quakecon event 2000-2004. what did he pick exactly? you don't remember him playing in 2005 and 2006 cause he stopped playing after eswc 2004, but still attended quakecon 2004 semiprepared, then quit for good.

he didn't attend ALL THOSE tournaments in 2008, he attended only 2 q3cpma tournaments in 2008. gamegune = he lost 2:1 to avek, (who won the tournament). and eswc iirc, (he passed his group with chance), cooller didn't, cause he finished 3rd. second group stage he lost to *rapha* (yeah, rapha), and lost to jibo by 1 hilarious frag on nodm9.

so do tell me, what's with the wrong facts? are you trying to pull a jamalz on me?

ut2k3 on eswc2003 and q3 on eswc2003 were both crap money, and fat attended the ut2k3 one. we both know why. but i won't stop you from riding his dick, nor do i want to. if you consider that 1,5 in average as something that makes a huge progaming difference for wendel, guess what? it doesn't.

he's just a scared cunt.

so do tell me, what's with the wrong facts? are you trying to pull a jamalz on me?

You've systematically ignored every single counter-point I've made which crushed your arguments flat and then repeatedly reworded my own arguments into things I never said and which became very obvious straw men for you to then reply to. Maybe in your world that's debating.

zero4 attended every single quakecon event 2000-2004.

Yes and Quakecons were significantly less competitive events than other "majors" with the exception of one year: 2002.

you don't remember him playing in 2005 and 2006 cause he stopped playing after eswc 2004, but still attended quakecon 2004 semiprepared, then quit for good.

Don't even know what your point is here, you've just repeated what I said as though it was a point for you, it wasn't.

he didn't attend ALL THOSE tournaments in 2008, he attended only 2 q3cpma tournaments in 2008.

Again you're arguing something which never existed. I quite specifically said he "attended tournaments in 2008". So you then tell me he didn't attend "ALL THOSE", something I never said" and that he did in fact attend events in 2008. Again, who or what are you arguing against?

Secondly which "2 q3cpma tournaments" did he attend in 2008? Quakecon was QuakeLive.

gamegune = he lost 2:1 to avek, (who won the tournament)

He didn't attend GameGune 2008, as usual you're entirely wrong.

second group stage he lost to *rapha* (yeah, rapha)

The same rapha who wasn't an elite player at the time.

ut2k3 on eswc2003 and q3 on eswc2003 were both crap money, and fat attended the ut2k3 one. we both know why.

Seems like we don't. As I've already mentioned UT2003 was being used by the CPL, had been used by the CPL at their last major tournament and fatal1ty had won the only major international tournament for UT2003 prior to ESWC 2003.

At first I actually thought maybe you believed you were right and had some arguments to back it up but now it's quite clear you have very few facts on the matter, are going almost entirely off your emotional dislike of fatal1ty irrespective of facts and that you're going to simply continue making stuff up or ignoring my points to reply to straw man arguments you've fabricated out of your own mind.

for fucks sake thorin if there's a questionmark at the end (yeah, you'll see it if you look closlely) it means it's not necessarily a fact, if it wasn't gamegune, it was 2 eswcs tournaments, and yeah, they were both cpmavq3. i'm not googleing up this shit while writing, i'm writing from my head.

what exactly makes quakecons less difficult than the rest? 2000 aside, 2001 had your beloved fatal1ty, 2003 lacked cooller, 2004 HAD cooller, and z4 beat him. i bet he choses quakecons cause they are easy, not cause it's like...relatively close to him? and why are we even talking about zero4 here in the first place?

what counterpoints are you talking about exactly? i say his achivements in quake3 duel are not that big of a deal, and i can name at least 5 guys this very moment who achieved more than he did. quake3 is the game that made him famous and 1 wcg and 1 cpl within a couple of months is awesome, but that's it. 2001 was bad for him, 2002 was a total fail, quakecon and wcgqual-wise, no matter how much he tries to make it look like a success for beating z4 @ quakecon. he lost to socrates, he lost to chaoticz. those guys weren't really quake champions.

what am i supposed to show respect for? beating ut99 players in the first tournament of a game that looks much much more like quake, than it does like ut99? or having a 14:24 (? <== look, thorin, a questionmark) map score vs vo0 in painkiller? owning 12-year olds at avp2 duel? that's also a serious title. a world champion. it counts, doesnt it? or beating daler in doom3, which turned out to be a fps duel success? or maybe the fact that he's doing everything FOR THE GAMERS and similar crap? what exactly is he doing for the gamers except traveling around signing autographs, doing shootouts where you're forced to play with given mice and given setups in order for him not to lose, like he did vs rocketboy? i wouldn't know.

and i wouldn't even care if the guy wasn't so fucking full of himself like he's godlike, and he's not the best in ANY game. any game.

too irritating for me. terribly sorry about that.

I don't even particularly like fatal1ty's personality, his media image or the play style he developed from 2000 onwards but I respect his accomplishments and the impact of his play.

You've spent the entire time arguing against his marketing spiel, which is for the birds anyway, and using your annoyance at it as an excuse to denigrate what he actually did as one of the best Q3 duel players of all time.

Apparently you can't separate the man's words from his actions in Quake 3.

Alright, he's probably the 6th best quake duel player of all times.

he didn't attend ALL THOSE tournaments in 2008, he attended only 2 q3cpma tournaments in 2008. gamegune = he lost 2:1 to avek, (who won the tournament). and eswc iirc, (he passed his group with chance), cooller didn't, cause he finished 3rd. second group stage he lost to *rapha* (yeah, rapha), and lost to jibo by 1 hilarious frag on nodm9.

so do tell me, what's with the wrong facts? are you trying to pull a jamalz on me?

...

for fucks sake thorin if there's a questionmark at the end (yeah, you'll see it if you look closlely) it means it's not necessarily a fact, if it wasn't gamegune, it was 2 eswcs tournaments, and yeah, they were both cpmavq3. i'm not googleing up this shit while writing, i'm writing from my head.

lol.

he didn't attend ALL THOSE tournaments in 2008, he attended only 2 q3cpma tournaments in 2008. gamegune = he lost 2:1 to avek, (who won the tournament). and eswc *****iirc*****

and what difference does it make really which 2 did he really attend, this and this one or this and that one? christ

iirc != question mark


What sense does it make to accuse Thorin of stating wrong facts, while on the other hand, you don't care about checking your "facts" and rely solely on your (obviously biased) memory about stuff that happened 10 years ago?

Exactly: None.

thorin had a strange need to defend an ego inflated cunt just because he did the interview himself. it makes no sense, but that's what he tried to do. i guess he felt attacked personally for whatever reason.

whether z4 attended this tournament or the next one makes absolutely no difference whatsoever regarding what i've said cause it's 2 in total anyway.

seeing the big picture is kinda more important than the irrelevant detail.

Yeah, cos ZeRo4 didn't pick his spots at all or play in a lot of Quakecon events which had limited entries due to the registration setup and visa problems for other countries right? I don't remember him playing in the final of ESWC 2005? Or CPL Winter 2006? Or all those tournaments in 2008?

Oh wait he skipped the first two, funny only he's allowed to do that without being labelled some kind of coward/fraud, and then he did attend events in 2008 but never got close to a final. Quick, let's throw out 2002 from this consideration, afterall it's only the year after his run of domination so that shouldn't count right? LOL.

and this is just a huge wall of *wrong* facts ^^.

anyway i have no need to return to this one once more.

I can't find any wrong facts there, only some interpretations you read into it.

Yeah, cos ZeRo4 didn't pick his spots at all or play in a lot of Quakecon events which had limited entries due to the registration setup and visa problems for other countries right?

He didn't say that ZeRo4 picked particular QCON events.
That, however, is what you read into it.

I don't remember him playing in the final of ESWC 2005? Or CPL Winter 2006? Or all those tournaments in 2008?

Oh wait he skipped the first two, funny only he's allowed to do that without being labelled some kind of coward/fraud, and then he did attend events in 2008 but never got close to a final. Quick, let's throw out 2002 from this consideration, afterall it's only the year after his run of domination so that shouldn't count right? LOL.

Where's the wrong fact here? Sure, "all those tournaments" might be a little exaggerated for 2-3 events, but his point still stands:

When fatal1ty missed events, he was "scared".
When Zero4 missed some events and lost the others, he... umm... "left for good", except ... 2002.

When fatal1ty missed events, he was "scared".

when fatal1ty missed events, he was playing something else for the easy money.

When Zero4 missed some events and lost the others, he... umm... "left for good", except ... 2002.

when zero4 missed some events, that was 2004-2008, he was busy doing something outside of the videogame world.

so yeah, the comparison obviously makes no sense, and it's a false fact.


is that all or you have something else?

"and then he did attend events in 2008 but never got close to a final."

QuakeCon 2008 vs. Cypher.

Was not in Quake 3.

What's your point?

This was a discussion about fatal1ty's Quake 3 duel career. What's your point?

It did not seem explicit in your discussion. If anything, quite the opposite, especially that you mention both games all the time.

Plus for the Bill Russell reference.

Listen to this man, he knows what he's talking about.

1) Fatal1ty did "quit" Quake 3 to play a non-Quake game in late 2001 or early 2002. For CS, off the top of my head. And he did "come back" for QCon and WCG in 2002. (Not that it matters at all.)

2) It's funny you say that in 2001 inviting the champion was "standard practice" when the first champions to be invited to WCG got their invites in 2002.

3) "As I've outlined previously I think a big part of fatal1ty's game was having a cast-iron confidence that he was going into a tournament in the best possible shape he could."

He turned up for the CXG or whatever its name was in Las Vegas to play in the "serious" UT2003 tournament after it turned out the CS event was not going to take place.

I'm not trying to bash Fat here. He had his reasons for not going to the qualifier. Just pointing out that some of your arguments don't seem 100% solid to me.

4) You forgot ZeRo4's 2nd place at QuakeCon in 2008. Not that it changes anyone's point, but still.

Whats the mouse accel command in painkiller!? I dident know there was one:P I cant play fps games without mouse accelxD. But apparently it was better to not use it in painkiller i guess..

dunno, it's in the pk++ options though.
The whole mouse code is totally different than quake tough.

snoop... scoob... spook....

The beginning part where fat gets asked how he would rate czm as a tdm player fat answers smth like:

yeah, czm had skill, everyone of us had loads of skill. but AYE was so wow and then AYE had so many monster tactics and paul would try to improve them and then AYE again have the uber tactics where we lock down the map for 2 minutes and MY tactics owned so much.
...
and then AYE went from the server and my team lost by 30 frags and then they begged me to join again and then AYE joined and then AYE had the next two maps the best stats and AYE am so uber at tdm TOO ....

...........
seemed a bit awkward to me. we should give him more credit to help him overcome his issues czm's shadow>>self complex

but he owned in TDM what is the problem with you dont you understand???

he did not owned @ TDM. can watch any fat demos from TDM. czm much better at duel and TDM.

i heard transcripts were good for business

The insights were interesting, the shoutout was good, but then the ending was cutted a bit too fast.

Is the video for anyone else a little bit out of sync?

Oh fatal1ty, when are you going to actually give something back to eSports? At least the last couple of years, all you've done is sat back and profited, as far as I can tell. GIVE SOMETHING BACK

lol scrub. He's a business man, not a fucking charity. You think he has enough $ to give back? He's not bill gates nigga, you can't retire on 1 million anymore, shits expensive now.

Make your own fucking money, then give back if u want, fucking pussy.

(and learn to shoutcast better, bitch)

it would be ok, until he wouldnt want to give the impression he does give back when in reality he dont do shit.

rocketboy bankrupted fatality.

All business. Your problem you believe what he says.

rofl [ + ] for laying the SMACKDOWN

Then this guy must be a clown right?

yeah he always talks about he helps e-sport but in the end all i have seen from him in the last year is him promoting his products. and sry, but playing ql ca against randoms with a fatality headset on is not exactly what i would call helping e-sports.
although when you see his role through the years he has played his part in the growth of e-sport, but talk about beating a dead horse

lol @ fatality trying to prop himself up as the ultimate teamplayer. everyone knows czm was the best player on CK by far. if there is someone out there that think fatality better than czm plz say so. czm even beat fatality badly 25-10 at duel proving czm is the better player of all time.

czm >>>>>> fatality

Dont care either way, but using one duel to decide who was the best is pretty stupid.

painkiller finals?

There's no equivalency between a single map and two consecutive Bo3.

that was sarcasm mate :D too bad we cant express sarcasm through words

czm beat fatality every time they met in tournament play.

you can make an excuse for fatality now, just as you have throughout the rest of this thread.

didn't fat make enough excuses in that interview you had with him?

czm beat fatality every time they met in tournament play.

fatal1ty beat czm 8:4 on ospdm8 in the loser's bracket of Quakecon 2002 to eliminate him from the tournament. So much for your Quake knowledge, probably best you stay anonymous if you're gonna talk nonsense.

What excuse do you have for lying?

yeah he fucked up


should have said cpl babbages @ t4

"Vo0 was the best for the first 12 months"

That's all there was of Painkiller!!

Wrong, it was played at ESWC 2004, CPL Summer 2004 and CPL Winter 2004 in addition to the CPL World Tour. So June 2004 to November 2005. That's 18 months.

Helps if you know what you're talking about.

It's not hard being the best of 12 players though.

Try providing a reason instead of simply making statements if you'd like to taken seriously.

There are 12 reasons actually, 11 too many to list, as I don't have all day.

well they weren't 12 randoms, so no

Also helps if you got a sense of humour, and a haircut...

Actually neither of those things help you deflect from how wrong your comment was.

fur*q: DUUUUH DER ONLY WUS TWELVE MONTHS SO HE IS SAYIN THAT VOO WAS THE BEST ALL THE TIME?!?!? HURHUR DUURRRRRR.

Wow your a moody ****. I wasn't trying to be "mr right" like you. I was just making a joke. You taking my stupid joke seriously, makes you look a bit...

Somebody's got to defend the only 12 PK players, their numbers are very limited.

I wasn't trying to be "mr right" like you.

Don't worry, you've overwhelming succeeded in not being "mr right".

You taking my stupid joke seriously, makes you look a bit...

It was just a joke man. I was trolling. I did it for the lulz. My dog ate my original comment. I was being sarcastic, obviously. You must have no sense of humour. I'm not trying to be mr right and know things.

Keep digging mate, this is going well for you.

You're not going to let this go are you?

You were categorically wrong with a one line comment, which was plain for anyone to see once I mentioned the context, yet you've replied three times now. I can only assume you're talking to yourself with this last comment.

Or maybe you don't understand the comments system: if somebody doesn't reply I have nothing to add my own reply onto.

You could of just said NO..

u gotta hand it to him for clawing his way to top tier placings in both PK and Q4 imo.

WE REVIVED UT2004. AND HE AINT DOING SHIT!

Can someone explain to me how Fatality is helping e-sports? I guess I missed it for the past 10 years.

Fatality and Angel Munoz sure did a number on the CPL though. With the way all that was handled after Q3 disappeared, makes you wonder if the game servers weren't rigged in Fatality's favor somehow...

I suppose asking CGS for a $300k salary to be a broadcaster and helping bankrupt them in less than 2 years was a great help.

Shooting newbs on DM17 at expos and then telling onlookers to buy his motherboard is progressing e-sports how?

Just want to thank Carmac and ESL for making a true effort at moving things forward.

With the way all that was handled after Q3 disappeared, makes you wonder if the game servers weren't rigged in Fatality's favor somehow...

aaaaand there goes your credibility in this debate.

I suppose asking CGS for a $300k salary to be a broadcaster and helping bankrupt them in less than 2 years was a great help.

CGS budget for 5 years = $50,000,000
$300,000 x2 = $600,000
CGS budget minus fatal1ty's wages = $49,400,000

As usual you're spot on the money. After all CGS went "bankrupt" right? It didn't get cancelled with $5,000,000 left in budget due to changes in the hierarchy above it at the TV channel right? I mean those are the same things yeah? If someone cancels my show and it has $5,000,000 still left over to spend we may as well just say I went bankrupt right?

Funny Thorin, but you should know by now not to discredit any theories about the status quo.

Knowing what we know about Angel Munoz and the CPL now, I would not be surprised at all if they rigged events in Fatality's favor. Those guys only cared about themselves and their money.

What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.
-Christopher Hitchens

Good interview, Thorin.

Damn! What a thread read...never seen anybody maintain, defend and secure the integrity of his post so thoroughly. Thorin, well done sir.

I would.