no fecne, but looked a lot like a high slot ca map will never will get played :/ aka black cathedral

You know, since im not playing anymore I cant comment on the flow of the map but you sure got the graphical skills to make a map that will be played. it looks solid without any extravaganza crap and pure gameplay.

i've got something similar (mix of dm14/osp5) in the works with akm, almost done now :f

Looks sweet from the shots mate. I would give you some feedback but my tdm knowledge is kinda nonexistant.

well i ran around on it, didnt really pay attention to item placement but 2 things stick out instantly: its simply too open and needs scaling down, like said, its too much like a CA map.

other questionable things are chaingun and haste, which i personally would LOVE to see in tdm, but the majority seem to be against them, especially the chaingun.

the brief look i took at items, it makes me think some armors are too close to each other etc but thats all fixable. however i think you need to have a solid gameplay plan BEFORE even starting a layout

Thanks for taking a look!

With the open-ness I can probably just put a couple more "kinks" and lower walls in and stop some of the long lines of sight. I've kept it simple for now but all sorts of pillars and stuff can be added. Like at RA, there could be a pillar going through the middle of that room going all the way to the roof, which would block a fair bit and make the rooms more interesting and less open.

I like the size of the rooms, thickness of walls, height of floors, width of corridors. Did you feel there was a problem with those? Or did you mean there was simply too much square footage in the map when you mentioned scaling?

One place which I think could feel too large is the RG room, the path on the 2nd floor (level with rg), going round the outside - I could block that off and make it so people have to go through where the RG is instead. Also similar thing with the quad and mh rooms, just reduce floor space. Is that what you mean?

Its a shame people are so against cg and haste, I agree its a really nice combo and why I put them close by. I think I'll probably leave them in and only remove them if people whine the roof down.

BTW is there anywhere I can take a look at your map?

Cheers

"I think I'll probably leave them in and only remove them if people whine the roof down." - wise man say this has been tried before, and they sure do whine.

Scaling in general is certainly a tough issue to get right and if people are saying 'it feels like a CA map' then it means one of two things: first is that because it's a very plain alpha it feels bigger, second is that the actual play spaces are too open. I think in this case it's mostly the latter and that you do need to close up some areas significantly. Pillars, crates, obstacles will help, but at this early stage you shouldn't rule out cropping areas.

Quad and RA rooms are the most important to get right. They need to be built around providing fun and interesting combat. As it stands, RA doesn't seem very fun to me and Quad area seems a little bland. I may be missing something, but if it were me, my focus would be on either making those areas more interesting or changing their spots.

The most interesting spot to me was the railgun room, the 3 tier thing you've got there looks like it could make for some very interesting gameplay. Perhaps with some kind of water/lava/slime hazard on the lowest level. Might need to look at the routes back up from the lower level to reach it and some 'things to dodge around' to spice up gameplay on the mid/lower levels. It seems like a nice signature part of the map, perhaps wasted on the RG.

I would certainly recommend putting teleporter exits at least a few seconds away from the item pickups themselves (teleporter steals can be cool, but give a defending team a chance to repel them - think CPM4's teleporters: 1 way into dead end spots, so taking the shortcut is also a risk of walking into a trap). Cross-map teleporters, especially 2-way, need to be carefully considered.

Cheers mate, it shouldnt be too hard to change areas, the map is 95% based on grid 64, so a bit like minecraft. Its specifically designed like that as I knew I'd get things wrong ;D

Its a shame about the cg, but if thats the way it is I suppose I have to back down, lol.

One of the reasons I made the rooms a little bit large because I wasn't sure about the scale and wanted some room to work with. Its also why the rooms are fairly barren.

Some people said they wanted the quad out of the way a bit, and I like the idea, its kind of got its own area. But I agree its not very interesting (at all) atm. But I think that room could be nice. I think the general location of the RA is ok aswell, but there is way more I can do with that whole section of the map.

Thanks for the tips about the teles. I think I will do away with the tele to RA and try connecting it up by putting curved stairs down to it instead (where the tele is). It can enter at the jump pad which I'll delete, and use the existing nearby pad (the one which is closest to Quad), as a 'combo' pad (access to 3 levels).

I agree with the RG room, its also my favourite area. But again needs something.

I'm still a bit unsure about it all, but once I get back to the editor I think I'll just try and keep in mind what people have said. I'll take another read of your TDM guide before I go back to it aswell, to keep my knowledge fresh ;)

just to add to what swelt said. theres plenty of interesting areas on the map. i really like the bottom area from red to ya below rail. but i think u should either cut the 2nd ya in the bottom or the cg area. i dont think every level needs to be that huge. with a map thats so vertical u should prolly limit the horizontal area per floor. also on the rail area, it has a nice structure but perhaps switch rail and ya. i think u should put rail in the bottom out in the open and ya up where rail is. and also remove the bridge to the rail spot. make it a reasonably hard strafe. if ur making the map double pu that room would be a good spot for the 2nd powerup too. (suggesting invisi/quad, would so love to see that in ql, especially if invisi would remove footsteps).

i like the atrium above the red. the pg room and the ya/lg room both have decent structural elements. however again i would remove the bridges in the pg room directly above red. in fact i would just remove the jump pad in the pg room as well. as well as changing the lay out there with perhaps the lg at the pg spot.

the rl/mh/bottom ya huge ass room feels messy at best. i dont think u need connectivity to the bottom there. also i would prolly remove the entire perimeter of the room and redesign the mh room. altho i do like the mh being up on a ledge idea. but again i would remove the bridges. just put mh on narrow ledge reachable by not too easy jumps (a la cpm27).

to summarize, i think the central ra and above area is nice and the rail area is great as well. u should imo keep those, scale them down properly and redesign the peripheries. and pls for gods sake dont put a personal teleporter in a tdm map :).

hope you fix it and it turns out good. gl.

ps: leave the cg and let the fuckers whine. we play devilish in 2v2 and the cg does just fine. adapt or fuck off idiot vq3 players.

exchanges teleporter (T) for the medkit :)

tp is a good idea, quadrun with tp would be funny..:)

I also like the idea of invis haste, never seen it before, but quad+invis is a waste imo, however invis+haste I find just as, or even more scary than quad. But I get the feeling it'll just be a whine generator? :D

it'll be whined at because nobody's successfully tried it (to my knowledge), but invisi+haste would be an epic combo if you could grab both.

honestly though, great idea throughout... except chaingun. i personally enjoy the weapon and think its great, but if i try to call the map in a match, i can already see the whine...

"xxx called a vote
change map to: uberl33ttdm1
randomnoob1: OMG NOT THAT MAP WITH CHAINGUN
xxx: -_____________________________________-"

I agree with swelt that it needs scaled down quite a bit, but there are some interesting areas.

I like the mega area; it can be easy to defend, but a good team can also easily trap a player(s) in that area, , which could enable them to take over control of another key area.

The red armor area does feel too simple in it's current setup, I would maybe put it on the opposite side of the room to the tele, put it down two or three steps, and have the roof open akin to deep inside's mega.

It's really nice to see another map coming from yourself, and more experience can only mean better maps from you for the community :)

As for the community to adopt any new decent map, well that's another matter....

well both purga and dp are new and very well liked nowadays, and theres a dire need to replace atleast cpm4, maybe even some of the other old ones too. aslong as the new maps are good.

tornado??? (got hit by one last week btw fun times).

well we played it a bit in pickups, its an ok map but the chaingun 'ruined' it. im sure if there was no cg it would have been more popular. dont ask me why people hate cg so much

i played a clan game on it after the cg got removed. it was awesome. obviously neither team knew the map that well so it was slightly pickupish but the maps potential really came through. its fast and furious and yet has loads of control elements to it.

people need to stop being stupid and try it again.

ps: one of the things i really loved about it is that its small enough that if u had a team of players who really really knew how to run the items properly u could actually lock large parts of it down without having to gang up and put all 4 people in a room.

dont ask me why people hate cg so much

no spare key to bind it
also always hate playing ffa and i cant use the bfg :D

What if CG was an upgrade for the MG, you pick it up and the mg changes to the CG, maybe using the same ammo as mg? Because even though the CG has a spinup time, its no less damaging than the mg in the spinup. Only thing you really lose is the range of the mg.

Personally I like the idea but can see people hating it aswell :D
But it does solve the button bind problem.

wasnt really serious about the binding problem ;)
although it is a bit annoying it should not be real problem

replacing the mg on pickup, hmm... think that will alienate people even further

Do you think TDM could improve with a new spawn weapon akin to QW's shotgun or the Q2 blaster? I think a 900 ups projectile with a smallish splash that does 30 to 35 dmg or so would be really nice. What do you think?

o0
not here to discuss tdm mechanics, but google is your friend

no spare key? try this: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2068552#pid2068552

(and tell me if it actually works :p)

Shame the QL site is down before I got the chance to see this, oh well. I`ll try to look at it later.

Don`t take the CG out though. It may be controversial but like someone said before, Devilish has one and people still enjoy it in 2v2, even pros like rapha play it this way (and use it). It would add a nice twist to gameplay.

I think the reason the CG worked in Devilish but not in Solid or Tornado, is because Devilish is quite open but Solid / Tornado tend to be tight and enclosed, which significantly reduces it`s effectiveness. So as long as you have some open spaces in your map, CG could be a good thing.

Also, kudos to putting haste in a TDM map. Don`t think I`ve seen many with this power-up and it would make it more unique IMO, compared to the typical Quad or Quad + BS combo.

Site came back up so I got a chance to play around in it for a bit against some bots. (g_gametype 3 of course) I love how vertical it is compared to most of QL`s maps - which is a definite plus.

I do agree that you could add some crates or columns to make it somewhat less open, but I think it`s already doing okay. At least with the openness, the CG you got here will work out just fine and probably won`t hurt it`s competitive potential. (I know some 2v2 TDM comp mappool had Devilish in it, can`t remember which one it was)

Here`s my suggestions (with screenshots):

https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Public/bst5a1_shot1.jpg?w=308ade3f
Not sure if intended or not, throwing it in just in case.

https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Public/bst5a1_shot2.jpg?w=d57f6af2
Faster access to mega, felt like something had to be put here. Alternatively, you could go for wood planks, stairs, etc.

https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Public/bst5a1_shot3.jpg?w=2a4e2465
See pic. :)

https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Public/bst5a1_shot4.jpg?w=c7b35551
The dent seems odd IMO.

https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Public/bst5a1_shot5.jpg?w=d294c6d3
Same here.

Hope you find this advice helpful. I think you`ve got a good layout, it just needs to be slightly reduced though. Also, you should probably clamp the swirls in your custom blue tele shader - this way the swirls don`t repeat in a tile-like format, but are just fixed in one place. Basically, just put "clampmap" in place of "map", or if you have Q3ASE check the Clamp checkbox.

Thanks mate, but I can't see the screenshots :(

That`s odd. I use DropBox now and I put the images in the public folder, thought that would make them visible.

Error (403)
It seems you don't belong here! You should probably try logging in?

You can also check out our FAQ or forums and maybe you'll find what you were looking for. Or maybe you should try heading home.

That`s weird, DropBox told me "anyone could view the files even if they don`t have an account"...

Does this help?
https://www.dropbox.com/help/16
I had a look round and it seems the url you've pasted is your url, which will work fine for you when you're logged in, but it seems you need to get a special public url to show anyone else.

you have to right-click on the item you want to share inside your public folder, choose the dropbox menu and click "copy public link" & paste the url here.

Any luck with this m8? Really curious what the pics are of ;D

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27277779/bst5a1_shot1.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27277779/bst5a1_shot2.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27277779/bst5a1_shot3.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27277779/bst5a1_shot4.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27277779/bst5a1_shot5.jpg

This should do the trick. Let me know if you still have problems.

Cheers! They work fine now :)

That bump, its just for when people put ramp jumps on, they can use it to get up instead of the stairs. But I'm going to put some crates there instead.

Thinking about it, I can see those dents aren't really a good idea. I just done it because I thought it gave the map a bit more character.

Not sure about the accel pad, I like it but was thinking of changing that area a bit. I mighy put a jump pad behind the wall instead which leads up to behind mega Oo

I was thinking, the area where you suggest clipping, may be a nice place to put an item, if not though I agree it should be clipped.

Thanks m8

so wasup with you rmap mate? looks good =)

looks niice, download link not working :/

I've put it back up :)