A lot of people will tell you to mimic your enemy's movement, I think that's wrong, do random strafes and find a sens/accel that allows you to actually track the opponent with LG instead of having to strafe-aim.

It seems it would be better to actually win an LG fight rather than rely on a bigger stack.

Agree, just dodge his shaft and learn to track yours with weird angles/movements.

= motherfucker, cant stick that guy but he sticks to me like glue, then they call u a hacker

Yeah best lg-ers dodge good as hell and aim like beasts..tox,cypher..:S

according to strenx , toxjq is the worst dodger with stermy : o

see.. when u dodge, you lose a tiny bit of aim. Facing strenx? He can pick out any type of dodge ppl try to do vs him, unless you are cooller.

So what would tox/stermy do vs strenx? Just straight up out aim him. Fuck the dodge, when he can track it anyway, just focus 100% and out aim strenx.

Now cypher? He'd lg strenx 50 acc as much as he can and when hes feeling his shaft weaken, he will switch to rockets and own him the rest. He's not going to out lg strenx when they both have full stack.

ye, strenx uses low sensitivity and tox does very small dodges in lg vs lg so it's nice for strenx..cypher and cooller go only in very close combat and do very long dodges vs strenx at some point he can't track anymore..against cypher especially i've seen strenx run out of mouse pad or smth, quite often..

cypher isn't that good in lg/lg fights -.-

Any cure for shakyness with LG?:/

sure low sens

Do u hold your mouse hard or loosely/lightly(whatever the word is)?

feather light with my thumb n pinky

Whos that

you are jubei

Move mouse as slow as possible, and make no sudden movements.

Move randomly and track opponent directly with the mouse and not strafing.

The lower your sens the more you will hit.

I hold the mouse hard, but I don't think it matters.

i have med-high sens..i correct myself waaaay too much in fights..

The lower your sens the more you will hit.

On mid-to high rage, yes. On low range low sensitivity will fuck up you and you loose track. Also using zoom on long range will help you a lot. Especially on maps like aerowalk when you stand on midlevel near the teleporter and you have to shaft someone who just spawned near rail (and is moving towards rail!). Also shaft battle from high ra to lower green armor near the tele works very effectively.

I remember on aerowalk cypher was near the sg and was walking up and down the stairs while strenx was standing at the 25hp bubble near tele. Mega was about to spawn. Cypher moved to mh, slowly and made a few steps back. Strenx got outshafted because of cyphers awkward stairs movement but it was awesome to watch and I think a lot of people would have lost the fight. Cypher probably has the best raw aim in awkward angles which is why he out aims a lot of people because they are not used to way he positions himself. This also works for shaft if you can find ways to exploit that fact.

have to agree: cypher got the biggest RAW aim potential... thats why his hitting so many crazy shots, air rockets and flick rails

I still think its thanks to his cpma past.

imo its because hes mad russian

he was 12 when he started playing..so...and he's just talented as fuck.:P u can see his aim abillities when he's falling trough the air and still hitting like 40 shaft. it's insane.MODERN TIME NINJA!!:D

talented? hes great, but its mostly matter of his discipline and motivation...

acording to h8m3 cypher got obsessed with quake, played duel in every free time, even went to moscow to paly agains russian best duellers...

so? lots of people did that when inet was shitty in belarus, also lots of people obsessed over quake in the past but how many cyphers are there?

ppl who got obsessed with quake are nowadays pr0s... dont mistake obsession with liking the game

no, why would they be "pros"/ ever want to be "pros"?

seems like you missed the years when large parts of the community were nerding it out big time, for nothing but a little fame online. i'm pretty sure even cypher obsessed over quake for other reasons than money.

I think chance would be world champion if prac was all there is to it !
His quakelive games are only the top of the iceberg :D

nerding != praccing

in this case, i obviously meant nerding = praccing. people came to moscow/petersburg's lan scene to beat polosatiy, later death/lexer/cooller/unkind/you name them, not for a chance to become "pro" at quake.

same thing with sc in korea, people play(ed) to compete, not to make money.

you can trust me its all about talent at the end. with practice and determination you can be a C or a B level player but thats not A, where the money is. theres really a lot of levels in quake, its not starcraft, its an intuitive game. pros are good because theyre one in a million type of guys and not because they practice 12 hours a day.

sorry, i prefer to belive in av3k and his opinion about willpower > talent

yeah, there is only 16 ppl in the planet who want to be _that_ good in quake... the others just dont/didnt wanted enough... pls

i respect avek as a player, one of my favorites but his opinion is just way off..

theres much more ppl who want to be good at quake... most dont have enough motivation[READ WILLPOWER] to achieve this.... just look at rapha, whos only advantage is ability to make correct decisions... not matter of talent but experiance and analise of demos...


all this "u need talent" talk was invented by ppl who played like 50 games per day and still were no close to top.... some just keep forgeting playing != practice...

sigh...nevermind...

exactly

just look at rapha, whos only advantage is ability to make correct decisions... not matter of talent but experiance and analise of demos...

when u read this, u realize u wasted ur time replying

...and for the record av3k was gifted as hell. He was a prodigy child.

i just love when ppl are trying to tell me than even ability to turn PC on is fuckin talent... goddamn fanbois

and basiclly av3k played a lot when he was young - profit... no talents lulz

you are right, the earth is flat

maybe you are so amazingly naďve cause u have no clue about competition. Even for the most insignificant or stupid things you will find many ppl around the world dedicated and obsessed to be the best. Putting many hours into something won’t do it. There will always be someone else willing to put the same or more. You need both talent and dedication to succeed in anything nowadays.

what u call talent can only make u reach top faster and easier... nothing more

wrong

great argument, cant wait too see more of them

noctis, do u need more?

You can't negate talent. It is impossible and no not everyone will be pro with superduper practice. You can reach a certain level ofc but some people are limited whereas others don't even need to do much to be on the same lvl. Some don't have the ability to time several items, some can't aim for shit, others have the reactions of a sloth etc. I don't think that you can call any of these mentioned skills talent but combined I call it talent.

You think everyone can be as good as c7, messi, xavi, alonso and so on?
Guess how many kids and teenagers practice every fucking day in and out for years and still won't be on of the best though they had the same apprenticeship?
I haven't played soccer for a whole year and I would still outdribble a lot of people in a callbox :x

isnt noctis playing since q3?

im not saying talent isnt important - it can just be "override" by hard work...

and dont mix predispositions with talent

No it can't. At least not on a top lvl.
And I didn't mix anything better read what I wrote.

Don't blame lack of talent if you can't reach a high level.

c:

c7 sucks

Yeah right -.-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixxt3nVORVs

that was friggin hilarious!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faRURZV81Js&feature=related compare it to this

FOOTBALL SON, NOT FUCKING SOCCER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You dont believe that someone can naturally be good at something? I would say all pro's have some kind of real talent. Some people can play for years and still be a mid level player/shitty. Some people will always have bad handwriting no matter how much they practice writing. Most people cant be rapha, cooller, or strenx, they are kinda like freaks of nature, get over it.

I do belive a guy can be gifted at some stuff, but its not the key factor to be succesfull... Practice practice and once more practice... Talent can only make it easier for you...

you can practice to be good, I dont believe you can practice to be great.

and i dont belive u need talent to be great

So you think all people are born with the hand-eye coordination to be great players? I would say that most people are not able to be great players because they wouldn't be great then would they. Im sure we could find out an average of human hand-eye coordination. I dont believe for a second that most of the top people in FPS are not freaks in the area of hand eye coordination or even spacial awareness.

So if I want to be the best at memorizing things i should practice???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhcQG_KItZM
No, the average mind is not capable of what Kim Peek can remember.

i say you can change your weakness into advantage, like rapha did...

you dont need hand eye coordination, if u can position urself well... thats why cooller and czm placed so high at last qcon, even if their aim isnt as good as it was 10 years ago when they were younger...

also you cant practice your memory to be like Kim Peek... Thats true... but i was sure we are talking about normal ppl, not the oned who suffer in one side of life, to gain in another...

Why do they race greyhounds and hunt with beagles? Each has its own advantageous traits. Why are some greyhounds faster then others? Practice? No, they just so happen to have superior genetics. Why would someone pay so to stud a champion greyhound? I was just giving the extreme example of a savant earlier so people could see my point better. Some people are just better at some things. What im trying to say is that everyone has their apex and no amount of practice will make them better.

In the examples you are giving, the racial characteristics are orders of magnitude apart. We're talking about reasonably able-bodied humans and (what is perhaps most important) that they get good practice. Your examples of people playing the game for years are irrelevant - it is proper practice (as in, with a coach [or without, if you can manage it]), not merely experience, which matters.

...and you base this on what?

Keep in mind that you need good practice, not just experience. Not everyone knows whats wrong with his play (or has a coach).

you are correct ofc, that's why Fatal1ty is the best.

Money?

having any kind of chance to win a single coin in a tournament...

yea cypher's one of the biggest strengths seem to be hitting mad accuracy even from awkward positions.

Yeah I know exactly what you mean, which is why I don't use a very low sens myself.

If I want 50 lg I can use strenx type sens, however I don't because it's stupid. I play with cypher type sens and accel which is perfect for being in any situation like you said.

I didn't say it was the best for everything, but for 1v1 direct lg battle, low sens is better.

whats cypher type sense and accel?

med sens, small accel

whats considered a med sense? 24cm 360?

m_cpi 0 (400dpi)
sens ~3.9
acc ~0.8

he seems to change his mouse and settings quite a bit though.

450 dpi.

no, 400.

that is what i based the sens/accel on, i recalculated cos he switches mice (and therefore dpi).

m_yaw/m_pitch?

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2124411#pid2124411

like i said, i recalculated for 400dpi, but also for default pitch/yaw.

cl_mouseacceloffset?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cypher+config

search esr/the web for cfg packs, eg. http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1907380 i'm pretty sure it's the default though.

Still wrong.

eswc 2010:
Normalized Sens, Normalized cl_mouseaccel, base cm/360, accel
Cooller - 2.255 sens, .182 accel, 46.09 cm/360
Cypher - 3.784 sens, .106 accel, 27.46 cm/360

afaik he lowered his accel in 2011, what did i miss?

Cypher

2010

26.562091503267975 cm/360
0.05649761299522599 accel

2011

23.76608187134503 cm/360
0.045198090396180786 accel

how you know?
I can't find any recent cfg from cypher.

you use real sens/real accel, if you look at the values i posted they're the same (for 2010)?

sens ~3.9
acc ~0.8

^ This is wrong.

Accel 0.8 on m_yaw 0.022 with 400dpi? That's much higher.

meh, forget it.

hm, true. 400dpi/accel 0.8 is ~0.4364808729617459. weird :c

i got my values of the esr thread i linked above, do you have a recent config?

Yeah, but probably better to wait until after Quakecon anyway.

could you upload it since qcon didnt upload it?

Like sens 4, low accel, on 400/450 dpi

to be honest i think thats just strenx's aim being shit, put k1llsen in strenx's position and he will outaim cypher

Some people think good aim is just about accuracy, to be honest its about having a constant and VERSATILE aim.

i think combining strafe aiming with tracking is the best, especially if the opponent makes big movements. It depends a lot on your sensitivity though. high=strafe aim, low= track more and make random movements. theres no doubt low sens is better for just lg

Im interested in watching the enemy's lg and changing direction when it catches up to you...does anyone do this and have you had noticeable success with it?

watching enemy lg doesnt work, tried all types, u gotta watch gun position and enemy himself

Explain why looking at enemy's lg beam doesn't work. Their gun is even smaller than their lg beam.

Because the goddamn game is antilagged and you see the beam delayed by ( your ping+ previous server snapshot ) ms. Yet if he was spot on when he shot he'll tear you apart.

Why you idiots can't understand simple things like that is beyond me.

so what gun isnt delayed but lg beam is

sense, please make some ( both syntax and the retarded shit you actually meant )

u still mad?

no, I'm just debunking retarded shit : the gun won't change position faster than you receive the corrected data from the server aka you're still gonna check something that's lagged by your ping+last server snapshot.

You can see the beam moving from side to side, in a dodging on the spot situation if you can sync your dodging with beam direction change you can minimize damage.

Unlag fucks me up though, many times in my view I dodge very nicely, take only minor damage judging from the pain sounds and visible lg beam but still die as if I was hit by 100%. it's fucking weird.

no, i tested this with my friend for hours. It doesn't help you. My friend lgs 40+ on everyone, pros, batman whoever the fuck comes he lgs 40 on him. Gets called hack for it. What he does is dodge first* and track you with super slow sens. Following their lg for more than the first initial bursts are a red herring. I learned lg from him, now i get called hack lol

*For dodging, never line up with the enemy. Usually you strafe with them, for quakelive you strafe against them, they try to line u up with body position, you immediately go the other way and try to lock your lg. This is hard as shit, as you need your keyboard hand and mouse hand to do completely different shit from usual and keep the lock. Once you perfect this however, you become boss. LG doesn't stick on you.

fuck dodge, use ur brain and get bigger stack!

How to fight shakyness (with almost any sensitivity):

Try to lock your upper and fore arm, up to the wrist, so that your arm lies steady on the table and on the same height as your mousepad - maybe use two mousepads to achieve same levelling. Now use your wrist, bend it to the left and right to track your enemy. If you notice, that you bend your wrist too much, release your fore arm and quickly later upper arm, so that you can move now your arm a bit to the side or forward/backwards, until you reached a good position to track your enemy again. Pick up your mouse quick, hold it in a linear position with your wrist and arm. Track your enemy with the wrist, if you get the limits where your wrist comfortably bends, release your arm, pick up the mouse, replace, and repeat the procedure.

Lock, bend, release, pick, replace, lock, ...

Sometimes you pick before you release, and often enough this procedure is done much faster and without any perceivably pattern.

The positive aspect about this is, that you don´t have to move too much weight and use much force, if you have to change your tracking direction, whereas if you always move more body mass (just arm), it´d be costing more force to stop and re-align to the new direction. The downside about this technique is, that there may be some sensitivities way too low to use it.

To wrap it all up: Try to use a technique where you feel comfortable at.

Heartless, can you please elaborate on this if you are lurking?

http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=1977695

i find that sitting russian style has greatly improved my posture in my chair, which simultaneously augments the ability of my right arm to move the mouse in a way that feels more "natural" than just sitting facing the desk straight on.

try it. ive played for 11 years and only started that in the past 4. i feel it helped my game a lot when i had hit my "top level" and didnt think i was going to get any better.

You should try m_filter instead, dunno how good it is to change ur sens to which ure already addopted to, into smth else.Its still different and you will feel it, but it will smoothen down ur mouse movement.

my main focus in lg vs lg is looking at the enemy lightningbeam, when it hits me I change direction in a randomised way.

by doing that you already allow ur opponent to hit you while you fuck ur own aim. The most important thing in lg fights is to CONTROL the fight and make opponent do obvious moves, not to adapt to opponents moves.

im used to it, dont need to strafeaim to hit. getting same percentages anyway and getting hit less.
works for me.

Mostly you should use mouse to track your opponent and dodge as much as you can. In some fights though you can force enemy movement by predicted-strafeaiming, which means you get ridicilous edge over your opponent by doing that, in these cases you ofc should just strafe aim.

Also sometimes when you know how ur opponent is going to move just stop tracking with mouse and sync with strafekeys for like 1-2sec and then switch back to dodging and aiming with mouse, this will give a great advantage to you, as when you dont move your mouse ur sideways speed is like 1.2x faster which makes hitting you harder while if you sync with success you will have free hits..

Is this why some players seems to move more distance (eg faster) when strafing in lg fights than others? I always believed it was netcode issue.

yes, this is exactly why it happens, usually people with bad aim try to just use strafe to fuck up your aim with that fast dodge

LG is a creature. I'm convinced of it. You need to HANDLE that BEAST. It's like a sumo dance where your right hand is round the enemy; dodging is avoiding stepping on the toes, and the objective is to push, push, push the opponent away. see profile pic if not convinced.

Claw grip here, aiming mainly with strafe, unless the oponent locks me, then i reverse the strafe and correct the crosschair with slow mouse movements till i can aim again with mirror strafing.

watch the recent vod of cooller vs spartie on aero. there are a couple of times where cooller uses strafe-shafting very efficiently (when spartie attacks the mh from the green armour and cooller is at the teleporter). having said that, you have to be versatile with your aiming and knowing how to strafe aim in the right situations is sometimes better because it still allows you to dodge properly.

outaim
or
outdodge
or
outsmart(better positioning, better stack)

basically, you can either try to outaim your opponent or "outdodge" his lg beam, or a bit of both, or play smart with better position & stuff.

at the end it s only a matter of playstyle, some people are better at dodging, others at aiming,o others are balanced, etc...

quake is a game that allows many different successful playstyles, that's the beauty of qsuake.

Yep, you need to read the situation too as sometimes its best to dodge whereas others its more beneficial just to focus on aiming and not care about dodging for example if you have a positional advantage you just want to hit them as much as possible as its hard for them to hit you anyway because your hitting so much and they are in an awkward position.

In order to defeat your enemy, you must put the crosshair on him.

OMG THIS!!!

dance lessons ft. cooller: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccVhPXewYhM&t=1m48s

|]

rocket jump lessons ft. cooller: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccVhPXewYhM&t=2m07s

|]

sponsord by russian vodka

hahahhahh :D

dude i'm gonna make a youtube vid of you killing 10 times your team mates on Realm of Steel Rats during that QCon final x).

i once wanted to make a whole frag video of just accidental team kills :D

do it then, lazy aussie

Noctis representing us proud ;p

oh yes yes yes YES!!! then add some funky music, and maybe some insider jokes that only u and the people u frag would understand!! OMFG that would be so funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!

good thing i didn't make it then... huh

god bless us all

make one of adrenal1ne too. Would be filled with more frag deaths. just saying...

raythennoob u fuckable whore!

:)

maybe a bit off topic but who has the best LG? mb z4muz?

strongaim