Nice source.
I hope Quake Live will be completely downloadable when the day comes they shut down the whole site so people can make their own servers like back in the Quake 3 days.

Yeah, I also hope they release it for the community to mess with but at least they don't plan on shutting it down just yet. "it loses money for id Software - but they don't plan on shutting it down anytime soon."

Funny thing is though, if it was executed properly Quake Live wouldn't have been a fail and they would actually be making money now rather than losing it...

Yeah, would be nice if they would just get it over with already and release all of the source (including site/server) to the public.

seems like it does not cost sooooo much if they dont plan to shut it down.

they wouldn't announce it anyways. They'll just do it quiety in a few years time when noone noticed anymore, hence why they're not advertising it anymore (to get it out of the news cycle so far as video games are concerned). In the meantime they'll soon be blasting us with rage advertisments all over the game.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2110433 apparently there is

What does 'internal' mean?

I think that by internal they mean not browser based, but I could be wrong as I admit I didn't fully got that part either.

then maybe you could wait for someone who can read, no?

It wasn't explained at all in the article and I actually edited my post after Dynamix's comment.

It's not like " internally " looks like and actually means " en interne " in your native language.

Pretty sure you say è instead of é anyway.

You should start messaging all these people making this awful mistake then.

there's no mistake in those halo/saint rows articles.

Won't be developed by someone else like Q4 and Raven.

If id software provided decent content, decent and stable support and listened to what the community wants (all kinds of different tweeks and addons) more people would play the game and more people would be willing to pay a few bucks for it.

tbh. I am not sure if there does exist any online game relying on purely competetive features (i.e. no fake success events like in WoW and other MMORPG's gaining levels only by playtime) that is profitable, the only thing QL has are these awards you can get ...
really the question is, does there exist a purely competetive game platform that is profitable?

sc2?

it's a single player game that has the multiplayer only as an add-on ...
blizzard could try to market a starcraft online game with a monthly fee, do you think it could sell? I don't think so ...

sc2 was the first game that was developed for competetive play, singleplayer is just a bonus.

no, you must have misunderstood something, the current sc2 game had the campaign for humans and there will be two successor titles with campaigns for zerg and protoss ... the buyers don't care about the multiplayer, it's a nice to-have thing, but not a seller ...
if the game was multiplayer only, they wouldn't have released a single player part ...
believe me, 95 % of people bought the game because of the single player ...

http://www.rtsguru.com/game/1/features/36/Sta...ports.html

this article is only saying that they gave the multiplayer a lot of importance, more than other developers do, still this doesn't change anything about the fact, that the game sold because of its singleplayer ... single player and multiplayer don't depend very much on each other, you know ... these are 2 separate games ...
it's true SC2 is more dedicated to the multiplayer than other games, still it's main sellingpoint is the single player ...

Couldn't be more wrong

that is why they are releasing two new single player campaigns for starcraft 2 ... because the single player doesn't count, in the next two sc2 titles almost noone cares for the multiplayer, what do you want to improve on in mp, also the community doesn't like changes ... if the single player wasn't in focus for sc2, they would just have slammed together a campaign for all three races in sc2 ...
sc2 is a singleplayer-trilogy, multiplayer is only bonus,
can't help you, if you can't understand that

Only arguing "95 % of people bought the game because of the single player"


Couldn't be more wrong

try to watch some advertisements of starcraft 2 ...
you'll only see advertisements for the single player ...
end of story

Doesn't mean people bought it for that..

i bought sc2 cuz of someone. watched some day9 newbie tuesday and funday monday vods. beat the campaign a few hours ago.

i am so scared to play online qq ;((((

The placement games will be rather chaotic (close games, easy wins, and horrible defeats), but once you get your placement, it shouldn't be an issue.

2-0 in placements. you should add me ;D

Source?

Modern Warfare 3.







*rimshot*

League of Legends?

when you pay money in LoL you can get twice as much experience points for gaining levels afaik, also you can buy different characters with money, that are not available for others (they also can't buy them with more playtime)

lol, maybe u should actually get to know the game before posting anything about it. u cant buy any hero with RP(money) that u cant buy with IP(game points). u can buy skins with rp which u cant buy with ip, get ur facts straight boi.

they aren't going to change

That's because the yearly subscription business plan is shit.

It's not a business success because it was grossly mishandled.

Not the fault of the gamers, the business model, or the browser based architecture.

correct...

mishandled by syncerror

Cos he wont listen to your whine?? quake has been a dying breed for the past 7 years, just a hardcore left with the odd new player showing up. Its too hardcore, kids today can pick up a realistic shooter, get kills easy and when ever a new one comes out they get into the hype/prettier graphics and dont have to learn much new

Quake Live could have succeeded dude. It had over 150,000 people in Q in early 2009. They simply mishandled that situation and every situation since. If they had only been able to keep the 10 year old veterans away from the noobs then this game could have lasted a bit longer. Over time you and others will see the incubus' having done far more damage to the game then the lack of advertising and communication combined.

Yes i agree quake live could have gottan quite a lot more interest had it employed some decent graphics on par with other comparable games of today, eg: the 10 year old graphics didn't help much, but competitively speaking, things were ok until the subscription model was announced. That really doomed this game. It divided everyone up into small groups. Eg: no cohesion of said community.

The queue was bugged, and didn't drop your spot if you refreshed the page.

hence why i followed it up with "They simply mishandled that situation" eg: the situation of q and the high #'s of people their site wasn't equipped to handle.

The queue didn't have 150,000 people, it was an inflated number due to a bug. It went over like 50 million at one point because the queue kept freezing for people, and they kept refreshing.

50 million lol!!!! you're more deluded than i thought

Feel free to find the thread on ESR for when it came out, as there are screenshots. The queue was bugged and didn't drop your spot when you refreshed, and people had to refresh multiple times due to the queue freezing, thus the extremely high numbers.

there are about 4.000.000 accounts anyway.
28% played the game, and that's one of the most important reasons why QL is a commercial failure. Id software handled the game's popularity very poorly. At that point I'd have fired syncerror.

http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php?17735-Wait-what....


The other 2 big reasons why this game didn't achieve the success from older quake games is that id didn't (and still doesn't) realize the importance of community content, and lack of advertising.

Lets face it, base quake games are terrible in comparison to what the community created for those games in just a year from their release, to the point that no one plays baseq3 for example, QW is just miles better than what id software can do in 5 years of developing, and quake2 most probably is the most modified game of all time thus becoming one of the games with most content available even today (ofc it can't reach WoW's or elder scrolls standards).
Also the most popular competitive pc games are mods or have a strong connection with them (cs, dota, lol, etc. etc.).

And a couple weeks ago the issue about QL advertising arose, and the conclusion was that id software sucks lol.

^THIS

John carmack made qw

did he make QL? don't think so.

And if you read some of his old blog posts he was very close to really destroy the game because of personal convictions that no one shared, lots of times.
When some id founders left the company bad decisions arose immediately, for example taking like 5 years to make only one game just to have time to develop his engine and keep the company small because he wanted to (doom3), outsourcing quake4 and using his engine, other 5 years to make rage, and 10 more to quake5.
Ofc I acknowledge he's a great programmer, but he really isn't a gamer.

Quake4 would have been an awesome game if it wasn't for the engine. It has lots of great ideas implemented in it, but the engine is the reason why it doesn't feel like a quake game when it had the potential to be the very best one of the series.
Quake Live had the potential as well, but I mentioned the 3 biggest factors why it didn't succeeded and all of them are bad business decisions.

Lets face it, it's id's fault that they are having bad results since 1999 to the point it had to be bought by bethesda.
The market can't be the problem, and I find incredible that one of id's employees said at quakecon that QL's failure is because of the community, when the company's work is to actually read the market well, and like I said in this particular case the very community is one of the main reasons why Quake1 succeeded since it created content and continues to do so for that game and for newer quake games, until the company decided that we just can't in QL.

Loads of games have alot of players at the start, look at every mmo release cept wow and eve who gained players, free game, try, get raped, quit

It's much easier to get kills in Quake than most realistic shooters. People don't play Quake because they see it as being easy, spammy, and boring. Not because it seems too difficult, or because the quake scene is too elitist.

ID are hopeless.

If that was the case TF2 would be dead

I've said it before and I've said it again.

There's a reason why TF2 and LOL with the free to play model and Quake Live failed horribly.

Yepp - you guessed it - this generation of gamer is the Call of Duty generation. In the Call of Duty generation a game that is as simple as possible wins.

Quake Live's biggest fault in the end was releasing in an age when the vast majority of players are too inept to ever enjoy the game.

No. It's biggest fault was releasing it when it wasn't ready.

IMO the biggest fail in regards to number of players was the lack of a better matchmaking system that guards noobs from playing with veterans.

For today's generation of gamers, I'd say it's probably a contributing factor. But there was/is still a buttload of accounts that haven't even played a game or completed one. Though their skillrating system could use a lot of work still.

What I don't understand is if they really don't have any plans on shutting it down in the near future, why not add some of these features people are asking for that will give them a reason to play (ladders) and ones that make the game more accessible (demo viewer/basic editor on site). Cause it makes no sense at all to me if they know it's failure, publicly admit it's a failure, but do nothing to improve it.

... maybe they will after Rage, if they transfer more man power over to QL, but who knows.

i heard they'll be re-allocating resources to rage 2 and doom 4 after that.... so very unlikely...

... well this is something u cant guess.

it would make sense though. Doom 4 is an almost guaranteed success while ql has already proven itself a failure...

if you really believe that then why attack me for pointing out incubus? who destroys noobs on a daily basis. I call your bluff.

He's right

this x 9000

a game that is as simple as possible wins.

Just like Starcraft!

at low levels it is, also the community isnt full of bitter vets like quake is

the bitter vets are playing on iccup.

no, we're stuck with garbage

imho, if QL would be able to build a healthy scene that sticks to playing the game and remains faithful to it ... and maybe would have some more self-confidence, that is feeling some self-confidence ...
there could be a new trend which could attract the mass ...
in the real world there were some single speeder bikes driven first by bikecouriers, and then some alternative people wanted single speeder bikes for private use ... and later on an industry was created, nowadays you can even find single speeder bikes from brands like pinarello ...

no

TF2 isn't really very "simple" compared to ql. It plays absolutely nothing like any call of duty game. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Actually you didn't understand what he was talking about.

Go watch some horse porn, TLR.

I'm not talking about competitive TF2, the game that your life revolves around, and the game that 99% of the people who play TF2 don't care about.

I'm talking about pub TF2 - the easy, simple, chaotic, 32-man instaspawn that even my grandma could enjoy.

The same thing would apply to 32man QL.

yep, competitive tf2 has aiming very similair to quake- just the meta game is not comparable (tf2's is very unique)

enough people still played q3 at the time QL was released for it to have been a huge success.

they dropped the freakin ball. they tried to nickle and dime their loyal consumers into submission with a stupid sub plan that makes sense for a MMORPG with constant development, not a FPS with updates every 8 months.

everyone who loved quake saw how horribly QL was handled, both by syncerror and sponge.

you need to look NO FURTHER than the dev picks to see just how badly these guys are disconnected from the game they work for.

I think subs could work fine for qlive, in my opinion though the problem is the "features" they chose to peddle.

They wont shut it down, even tho they arent making money with it. LOL at all the nerds that said Zenimax was going to kill QL. There are things in life that dont have price, like the cum sprayed yesterday :D

what a suprise.. like nobody saw this failure comming...

surprise*

there' were a few lol. Some are still too proud to admit they were wrong

Q43A does everything, and everything for the COD tards
just gotta config the server to the gameplay you want

http://www.moddb.com/mods/q43a

go post on cod forums get them playing m8, maybe you should release it for the 360 when id release the source

dont have COD, i dont have a 360 or the dev emulator kit, and i probaly wont do anything else on Q43A

So there are no devs working on the game because its not making any money.....

Simple way for QL to become more profitable:

Reduce free play mode to 1 or 2 maps per mod. Maybe rotate the free maps once a month.
Introduce payment via paypal for 1 Month/3 Months/6 Months/12 Months/Lifetime
Add other popular payment methods (google checkout?)
More Nags in freeplay that increase the longer you play without buying a subsciption?!
Freeze Tag FREE

ADVERTISE THE GAME, focus on the newb friendly mod FT/iFT.

Most importantly, ID then updates the game to include ladders/leagues/GTV/ctfs/streams/chat/bug fixes - everything that is wanted.

Or cant they just change to donations (but still require a pro account to spawn servers) and delete the premium account. Maybe they can have a system that suggests a donation based on the amount of time you play. Have some form of donations counter on the website that shows the amount of donations recieved (as a percentage of how much is required, not actual monetary figures)

it certainly is, felt like a very half-hearted try though

The id Tech 4 engine (Doom 3, Quake 4, Brink) will be come open source "later this year."

smells like shit

It's only a failure because of incompetent management and development in completely wrong direction. I wonder why id doesn't replace managers of QL who continue to do badly with it?

bethesda!!!

First they fuck up Brink, now they're hagglin' after minecraft, two products I don't care about, but the asshattery they're committing is making me angry. :(

"There is no plan or team in place for a future Quake title."

So next Quake in about 4 years, yay!

id failed to properly execute theyre business model tbh

*THERE'RE*

*their*

C-C-C-COMBOBREAKER

*SARCARASM*

bullshit u got owned frenchy

You do understand you are trolling yourself ?

i am con'trolling' myself? ok rofl, get a clue

ok rofl, get a clue

By jamalz

whoever sillyget is, i strongly believe is responsible for the current .503 error. just a hunch....
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...-the-count

interestingly enough, he posted that immediately right after the site went to the survey page

edit: ah they deleted it, but unfortunate for him i've done my homework:

Behold:
http://imageshack.us/f/600/sillygetslander2.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/f/823/sillygetslander5.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/f/853/sillygetslander.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/f/3/sillygetslander3.jpg/

edit #2: lol
http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...post159839

gg sillyget, enjoy your ban.

edit #3: lol at you thinkin i'm jdb. hahah
edit #4: lol man, carmac is the one who said ql is a business failure (check quakecon's keynote speaker) noob. Lol? i crated this thread? you sure? check again hahah. Seriously though, i suggest you back off while you're ahead (or so you think) because you're going over some bounds that i dont' think you want to cross legally.

you are mental.

I think sillyget is just feeding us the bullshit & placing the blame on ray to get suspicion off of him or some other crazy shit. I dont know whats going on, or how all this happened, but i believe that there is more to this than we know.

a simple ip trace will be able to solve it. It's almost too obvious that he's somehow involved. It wasn't his first time to try to put the blame on me for something. I have to check my post history but he's pulled this shit before. I don't think the site was hacked, probably just a server overflow. This happened last year at quakecon too.

Stop talking to yourself. Nobody believes you, and you're banned anyway.

one things for sure, if anyone wants to shut down ql its' you. But really wtf will you do when ql goes down huh? you haven't said what your plan is. Do you even have a plan? Do you really even give a damm about quake at all?

No, I don't care about Quake. I did many years ago, but that was before I actually got into the QL closed beta and saw that they were completely incompetent. The game was doomed before it started, and any belief that the game has any chance of ever being big again is a delusion. Move on to a real game.

yer mybe you should stop hanging rnd the forums of QL if its a dead game

I have not visited the QL forums since the game went open beta.

So re-selling quake 3 with maps produced for quake 3 as 'new content' whilst offering a substandard web front end wasn't a business success?

Holy fucking shit, stop the press!

Error: You have already judged this post :(

I think id did a terrible job of quakelive available to the masses beyon the obvious things to do.

Anyone with half a clue could have sat in with them at the start of this project and explained the directions they were planning to take were not going to work.

I think they surround themselves with people who think like them, so even when they see themselves relinquish control, they are letting it go to people whom are really only carrying on their flawed philosophies which don't work.

Quakelive could work, but id can't or won't let quakelive be a success becuase it means they need to relinquish control, and I doubt any of their ego's could deal with that.

tons of problems with QL. i played QW for 11 years and was heavily involved in the qwtf scene. nobody there knew wtf i was talking about when i brought up QL in IRC. it was like, "what? people are playing q3... on a browser...?"

so yeah, NO ADVERTISING. big problem.

second problem, greedily charging yearly for a game that doesn't get updates.

third problem, no working tier/ELO system.

final problem imo, shit moderators and employees who undermine the very tier system they work for (hi incubus, syncerror and assorted butt buddies) should be fired for attempting to undermine THE ENTIRE QUAKELIVE PROJECT.

these are the kinds of guys who should be helping foster the community, not being the small elitist group of assholes playing with each other and pubstomping noobs. shits ridiculous. its amateurism through and through.

(imho:) lack of leadership, passion and care....

inb4 nobody cares

also, this looks really good actually
http://www.quakecon.org/2011/08/new-rage-trailer/

God I hope Rage comes out soon so ray will have something to preoccupy his time bitching about.

you're too stupid to realize that ql failed because they didn't take care of the things i "bitch" about.

Kinda sad. There are all sorts of ways of creating a good payment model. Why not have a map store - no subscriptions, just a one time payment for the game which would get you the base map pack. And then, the community could supply maps to Id for purchase by players. Basically the App Store model applied to Quake - Id would act as a middle man, filtering the community gems from the community crap and providing the overall service (and making more maps themselves...).

MMORPGs are the only genre of game that can get away with subscription payment models. This is because they are easily accessible and designed to be highly addictive. While Quake is certainly addictive, any newcomer would be put off because of all the hardcore players.

It would've been nicer if they just made a one-off-payment game and charged for DLC in some form, this is the model every other FPS takes this day and age.

You don't need subscriptions to generate a decent margin provided you keep updating the game with new content and charge for it. But Id didn't want to put in the time and effort.

I'm really annoyed because QL is a great game and it's a missed opportunity.

nobody cares

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRsPheErBj8

They don't advertise the game because they know it is shit and probably could have a bad affect on id's reputation and therefore just led it rot in the niche gaming market.

please tell me you're NOT trolling.

actually that makes perfect sense. Why would they advertise a fail game?

Q&A:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00Q9-ftiPVQ

" Its limping along... "

Even carmack sounds pessimistic. Case closed.

What saddens me most is the comment about Quake Live being too much of an hardcore game for today's standards, and that they "learned the lesson".

too much of a hardcore game because there's virtually no playerbase outside of people who have had no sex life since 99 ( which would be solved by advertising the game ) and there's no condom 101 tutorial except for the 3 shitty useless movement maps.

Except for ffa ofc.

they thought esr was made up of 99% of qls playerbase. I reminded them it was just 1%. Glad they listened finally. Too bad it's too late now.

Did they ever advertise it anywhere? I was lucky to find out it existed and was free to play because of this site

A lot of features in QuakeLive are simply not well thought out.

Tier system: is just some variable in QL. In a game like SC2 that's practically the whole reason for playing. In QL the tiers make no sense at all. And when you go to a higher tier, you don't feel like you are rewarded. For many players such rewards system is very appealing, they get a true feeling of improving.

Awards: Awards are quite well thought out, but there is no real reward, except for getting this logo on your awards page. In other games awards are also an important part of your gaming profile. Why can you not win Mad skillz awards more than once? Why do you not gain access to some specific map after getting the 100 hours award. I'm just making stuff up now, but also this works very appealing to many newbies to a game. Feeling they are progressing.

Leaderboards: let's not even go in there.

Premium subscription: I personally don't see how anyone can be happy being premium. Only the Pro account is valuable in my view. Premium makes no sense, is no value for money. Main advantage of PRO is justified: creating a clan, and having your own (clan) server.

The idea of premium maps: this is just wtf stupid. Creating a divide in the community, blocking people from content, rendering a lot of premium content completely useless, as no1 plays it. Like that new FFA map they created. Right on the pile of never played premium maps. If everyone could play it it would surely be popular.

premium is really valuable bc it kills the pregame ad. thats huge for duel. on the 3-4th try youll be second at the server and dont have to browse for half a hour hoping that until the ad ends someone with premium joined before you, or jump around on an empty server for multiple 10 minutes hoping someone recognize your server

He quoted the reason for the failure was the implosion of the in-game advertising firms. He also does think it can work, they just don't have the money to do the marketing for it, now. Not having it spread virally like the greatest gaming invention is not necessarily a failure or a lack of potential.

other games are f2p without any ingame adverts

what other games? QL was supposed to be a spectator sport. other spectator sports have in-game adverts.

mmorpg and nodoubt lol along with omgwtf

you don't get it, quakelive is a totally different business model

not when it comes to paying money to have a advert in a game and you look at what else is around, most other f2p plays have more players and cost more to keep up and running

games are limited to the adverts that can be displayed without GEO IP adverts, and big spenders like asus/msi/nvidia etc wont pay to have normal webpage adverts and be proud of their tech powering quake live

omg, what the hell are you talking about? none of these are competitive disciplines with high-stake spectator events in the likes of organized sports, which is what quakelive/esports is trying to accomplish. this is the entire fucking point, if you don't get it, stop replying to me.

international companies that sponser sports like reebok etc, wouldnt put adverts in a esgame as part of a global marketing plan for a new product

shops cannot put some sale adverts in esgames without geo ip and being localized to the viewer, along with domino`s and pizza hut

As much as I wonder how well the in game advertising would have worked if there was no recession, a part of me also thinks id completely shit themselves in regards to a f2p game supported by ads.

They seemingly pinned their hopes on the in map banners, which in a world of internet advertising is hopelessly retarded. It's a rigid, cumbersome, outdated way of showing ads. They also seemingly failed to use their web front end to do any significant advertising. I'm talking about the video ads. Compare how advertising on own3d has evolved over time to that of QL. I question just how easy it was for an advertiser to place video ads in QL. I question how shittly the web part of QL was developed that they were not able to transition more towards flash video advertising when the in game banners failed.

Honestly the more I think about it, the more QL reeks of ass. I mean, if they set out to make a game supported by ads, then goddamnit make it so, don't jump ship because your one obviously shitty attempt (the in game banners) failed. No matter what anyone from id says, no matter who they blame, they, and they alone are responsible for the state the game is in.

yeah well its a failure cos they made it into a browser flash game, those 5minute timekiller types, competition to gemcraft, angry birds etc.... QL never meant to be an esport.

Id isn't even trying to make QL a business success. Look at the way they handle servers. Used to be, people would pay to host their own servers. Now, id pays all that cost. Maybe it's not a huge cost, but a penny saved is a penny earned, and more importantly, a penny that can be spent on something else (like ladders and GTV).

With such a good base system, they could open it up to modding, and allow modders to earn an income for their mods. If modders had some incentive, like money, they would be more willing and able to create mods and create quality mods. With the ad-system, it could still be free to play, or they could just charge like $2.00 for their mod (like a cell-phone game).

It just seems like id has lost their edge. There's little to no ingenuity or originality, and a lot of inefficiency.

all in all they just thought its enough to release the game and count the money 90s style.
how would they have know? d3 was still fitted this mindset, q4 somehow was carried by other for free to a point when everyone had enough. it should set the alarm but they were busy licencing engines anyway.

good points.

you can tell how out of touch the devs are by the fact they took away the unlocked premium servers. I mean, why on earth, with the announcement that ql is a failure would you screw the community even more and go back to the premium/pro subscription model. Did they even listen to carmack? lol

"Look at the way they handle servers. Used to be, people would pay to host their own servers. Now, id pays all that cost. Maybe it's not a huge cost, but a penny saved is a penny earned, and more importantly, a penny that can be spent on something else (like ladders and GTV)."


Actually I know for a fact that some ISP's in some countries donated servers to ID Software as they were unable to pay for the hosting....

I thought that was the case for every country besides the US?

I am not aware of it, and I won't go into it any further as it will just bring up a pointless discussion and people will start pointing fingers or w/e even tho there wasn't budget to pay for servers the other QL mod errr... TTimo and I worked out a deal with the local ISP here, and the same kind of deal was offered to another isp in another country I cba to go in to it

Its more of an id marketing failure than the game being a business failure.

You can just look at the retention of players to see that it was both. Advertising doesn't help if 99% of the players won't stick around. Throwing players at the problem isn't going to fix it.

how much marketing did minecraft have?

You do realise that by trolling, you are being trolled?

you realize that by writing stupid shit without arguments, you are being stupid?

You do realise that arguing with a retard would also make me stupid?

is that why you have no arguments? because you are smart?

Yes, I don't need them.

Renew / buy subscriptions and keep it alive!
Whatever they did wrong and will do wrong, its still the best game out there!

its' over johnny it's over

quake live killed rq3 pub *sadface* but nobody's talking about that..

I wonder how much effort would it take, and how likely is it that we will see mod support for QL down the track (stand alone or otherwise)?

Even if most of the community is gone I'd still be interested. Could someone who knows about modding Quake hazard a guess of the chances?

1.33

I think you're being a tad optimistic. :(

nope, imo, it would take that much effort, however, nobody would play q3 nowadays:(

Well I would certainly play it with friends for years to come, LAN or otherwise. I'm sure a lot of other people here would do the same. As far as an actual competitive community though, you're dead right. :(

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i think you forgot a link

fail move by id ql failed and at same time q3 dispaeared... if not ql q3 would be alive

q3 could easily get more active with a little push by some of the top pros playing ql now. If rapha for example went back, it could start a trend. Wouldn't take much at this point. Everyone is waiting to see what the other is gonna do. We'll know soon enough in the next couple days as all the subscriptions end, About 1/2 said they weren't renewing and another 1/4 of said they might if ladders were added..... but .... ... no update today...... no ladders ...

ray how are gona play q3?... there is no tier system there.. u'll be fragfested there even more.

i can hold my own just fine. My rail just isn't what it used to be sinec i moved to a smaller, more light and compact mouse, which helps me movement/rj wise, but isn't very reliable for rail aim.

so noobs what are you gona do, since now the game is failing, (altho there are quite a few tournaments, cups and whatnot)?

As for me it's back to my old favorite, the Red Orchestra series until their new game dies. Then I guess it's on to RTS. I had fun shooting things, but I estimate from the trends that there is far too little profitability in FPS on the PC these days. It might soon be time to give the genre the old 21 railgun salute, so to speak.

i'm going to disneyland!!

In other word iD destroyed q3 and ql no ql q3 would be alive. But also q4 dunno about that how effected players

in some years i think there will be ragecon if its gonna be succes.

But azlso games like cod are very popular why activision cant make one big tourney.

whats crazy is john carmack repeats the same veteran talking points that this game is unpopular because of its learning curve.

As if in other highly competitive games the same players don't' dominate consistently. Like games in the IEM played by 100s of thousands.

the simple truth is the community is not very good in quakelive. So i have no hopes for people hosting their own servers or the game getting popular if thats the case.

The fact is ID did not put enough effort into regulating fairness and competitive matches like other games, that also don't have graphics as selling points, have done.

Like most veteran players, J carmack also mistakenly thinks IDs unpopularity has anything to do with the game itself.

john carmack has not a single clue about competetive quake or gaming experience, this guy is more or less a pure tech guy ...
why should you care for some fucking online community ... it's an o.k. thing to do in the teenage years, but at some point you realize you don't get so much out of it ...

So true. This community seems to have gained a sense of entitlement over the years -- as if their opinions should be heard over the voices of those who play much more popular games and whom outnumber this community by a ridiculous ratio, just because the DM scene is what started it all and what helped garner a reputation for e-sports early on. Even among the pros, I remember hearing back in 2007 about how all the top Q4 players essentially wanted to play the same three maps in WSVG that they'd been playing since 2005/early 2006, and basically discouraged any change whatsoever. And now id wants to promote a cloud version of a 12-year-old game as the competitive DM game to play when the same guy just keeps winning? It's no wonder that ESL dumped this game. Outside of Europe as well as id's overall fanbase, its appeal to the average viewer is pretty nil because of how no one is going to understand why people are hopping around like a bunch of fucks -- shooting themselves with rockets and intentionally taking damage to propel themselves, just to name one -- when they've never played the game before. For what it's worth, when my friends have watched me play Q4, they said they can get a bit dizzy watching the screen. I can imagine their feelings are also shared by many viewers, especially those who would rather watch RTS on a static screen.

CS is dying because viewers got tired of watching the same Q1 engine old bullshit over and over while CS:Source remained highly scrutinized ever since it came out. Halo remains hugely popular not only because of its mainstream appeal, but also because new Halo games come out often enough to keep the audience interested in the competitive facet of the game.

agreed. These clicques of elites have pretty much been at the forefront of teamstacking, slumming, teamkilling, etc as a group or as individuals across numerous servers. It's a shame there wasn't more regulation in this game. This community definitely can't regulate itself. I used to think it was an age issue, but i've seen more mature users at the same age in other games. It's simply the people who came from q3 who repeatedly pubstomped the newcomers in the game , calling them N******s, noobs and generally making their gaming experience on quakel live a living hell. Syncerror is really clueless in that respect. He has no idea how bad the situation got in the fall of 2009 already. That is when the game took a turn for the worst, not because of the # of people doing it, but because it had become a known fact at that point that id would not do anything to stop them. So more people started mimicking the actions of av8r, adrenal1ne, incubus, tommeh, gragor, etc which forged the actions of candyass, q_adrian, everybodypoops, kroox, and detlew.

Spot on.

Having been involved in gaming communities of different games the last 10 years, worked briefly as a cm at a major player in the industry and played fps at the highest level my opinion is that high level quakers may be the most arrogant and fundamentalist group of players in any game.

Syncerrors problem is that he has catered too much towards the hardcore and not enough towards the newbies.

In hindsight they should have skipped all the new cvars, hitbox changes, weapon rebalancing and physics tweaks and redeployment of old maps.

Instead put their energy towards making a ladder, a working rating system and 3-5 new simpler, easier duel maps (dm6 style with no teleporters, less guns on each map, small amounts of armor and health) to cater to new players,

FFA should have been remade with fewer players per map and all weapons at spawn to give new players and easier time while keeping old mode as legacy-ffa.

Energy left could have been spent time on arranging small tournaments with entry based on rating and having a news section linking to upcoming ql comps and live streams available.

Hindsight is 20/20 and I am sure that syncerror did the best with what he got. We dont know the details why it got to this point and may newer know. I have cancelled and deleted my quake live account and is now going to try out other games instead.

One of the few unbiased arguments I've read thus far. Pretty much agree on the points you made as well.

I also like that you mention rating entry based tournaments in a ladder system. Makes it useful playing in ladders when there is goals set to play in them.

Got any suggestions for fun multiplayer games to play until this MIGHT happen? Urging to amuse myself with WF:ET for the time being, as no other FPS catches my attention atm :(

what was your ql account name.

Syncerrors problem is that he has catered too much towards the hardcore and not enough towards the newbies.

I disagree.

The hardcore community did not ask for most of the things that were changed. No one did.

The problem was/is a lack of development resources, and the resources that were/are there not put into the correct direction.

he was referring to, not putting precedence on the skillmatching system in terms of improving it so noobs aren't put against pros in their first 20 games on ql.

And i don't really buy the excuse, that there's no other alternative. Plenty of people have suggested restricted low level tiers for new players, who can integrate only if they've produced a certain skill level to warrant raising their sv rating.

Moreover, id has completely ignored gametypes like CTF where the majority of tierslumming still takes place and where people can still play 2 up or 2 down as opposed to CA, where tiers and the playerbase are more in unison with the goals of the game; to allow players to easily play against others "at their own skill level".

and really, they did go overboard with cvars... You can't argue that time spent on producing said # of cvars every update could have been reserved for production on ladders, gtv, etc which would ultimately have brought in a larger # of players, advertisers and sponsors. Instead we're left with a broken game and 100's of cvars that only the elite community makes use of, and that is probably the most depressing fact of all, that pros continue to have advantages of noobs notwithstanding all the years of experience under their belt.

For a new player, the odds are stacked against him, and for most, it's just not worth the effort. Even after 2 years of playing this game, i still don't know 95% of the cvars in use. Just a waste of development time, better spent on guides, what not for new players.Those cvars certainly didn't help bridge the gap between noobs and pro's, only widened it.

he was referring to, not putting precedence on the skillmatching system in terms of improving it so noobs aren't put against pros in their first 20 games on ql.

I don't see how this 'caters to the hardcore community' though. I don't want to play against newbies, and I want my friends who are weaker players to have good games. It irritates me when their ffa game gets ruined by some pro level player joining and cleaning up.

And i don't really buy the excuse, that there's no other alternative. Plenty of people have suggested restricted low level tiers for new players, who can integrate only if they've produced a certain skill level to warrant raising their sv rating.

It could unquestionably be improved. Without a doubt.

The concern is that expectations can quickly become unrealistic.

Every time someone loses a game there's a chance they will get upset and try to avoid taking responsibility for their loss by blaming everything else under the sun, but especially the skill matching system.

There's also the problem of what people perceive to be a skill 'unmatched' game. Sometimes a small difference in ability or knowledge can result in a large score for one player, even if that player's effective playing strength is almost exactly the same as their opponent(s).

It is important to separate the irrational criticisms from the rational ones.

and really, they did go overboard with cvars... You can't argue that time spent on producing said # of cvars every update could have been reserved for production on ladders, gtv, etc which would ultimately have brought in a larger # of players, advertisers and sponsors.

Really the vast majority of the added cvars have a trivial implementation and would have required very little development time and testing.

This is one of the reasons why I believe that QL has been greatly starved of development time. The general strategy of the updates seems to be to do what can be done in an extremely short amount of time and only venture into that which is unlikely to produce bugs.

Perhaps QL has been an administration nightmare behind the scenes and this has gobbled up what little resources there were, I have no idea and can only speculate.

Even if the resources have not enabled the more impactful and highly desired changes, it is still clear to me that many desired changes could have been made with the time allotted.

Instead we're left with a broken game and 100's of cvars that only the elite community makes use of, and that is probably the most depressing fact of all, that pros continue to have advantages of noobs notwithstanding all the years of experience under their belt.

I disagree. I don't think the added cvars offer much of an advantage if any.

Also most of the truly pro players have in my opinion, really weak configs. It appears that config tweaking is not terribly popular at the highest level. I think Cooller even played a tournament with kickscale on.. totally unthinkable to me.

For a new player, the odds are stacked against him, and for most, it's just not worth the effort. Even after 2 years of playing this game, i still don't know 95% of the cvars in use. Just a waste of development time, better spent on guides, what not for new players.Those cvars certainly didn't help bridge the gap between noobs and pro's, only widened it.

I think I know 99 % of the cvars, or at least if you were to ask me what each cvar does I could test somewhere in that range.

Probably ~5-10 % of them make for the biggest potential impact on gameplay experience. it may very well be 5 % in fact.

My own config which is rather tweaked is only 127 lines, which is very small when you consider that 45 of those lines are key bindings (esdf and weapons is already 16 lines).

Rapha-paris when cleaned up came to 95 lines.

I don't want to play against newbies, and I want my friends who are weaker players to have good games. It irritates me when their ffa game gets ruined by some pro level player joining and cleaning up

exactly the argument both noobs and pros alike have, yet,it's not a priority for id (to fix it). In regards to catering to pros, that was in reference to thoughts, ideas, what not, something that i believe i saw someone mention comprised most of the language used in the early days of quake live and hence the reason syncerror invited over veterans into focus,etc. New voices, those who haven't been around the scene for the past 10 years and who have had different experiences from different communities, not fps related even, could have been used to counteract the one sided views that the elites from q3/q4 had in those aerly days that helped shape live into what we know it to be today. Thats' why we have a one sided game right now, something i've been saing for 2 years now. Instead, those voices are muted and labeled as trolls, noobs, idiots, retards, etc. Their ideas are just as plausible. Just look at how cooloutac is treated. Yes, he's repeating himself 10fold, i get it, iv'e been there, i still do it at times out of frustration, but it happens mainly due to the fact that unless you're a somebody or were a somebody in this community (not speaking about esr, just ql in general) then you're not taken seriously, as if only people with quake experience know the answers.

It could unquestionably be improved. Without a doubt.

In CTF unquestionably

The concern is that expectations can quickly become unrealistic.

an autobalance system, like employed in ca can't be that hard to transfer over to ctf. It also can't be that hard to recode the way a player enters a game when teams are tied (as currently BLUE ALWAYS GETS THE FIRST SPEC WHO ENTERS INTO THEIR TEAM, and that topic btw: was turned into a joke on the ql forum, when the argument was perfectly legitimate, because in truth, yes blue does win 80% of the time for the reason i just mentioned, and every pro-stacker knows this. Hence why incubus almost always goes on blue in CTF. (yes i went there, again...)

It is important to separate the irrational criticisms from the rational ones.

that's not really that hard to do. Ther'es really only so many people who truly know their specific playerbase. For example, for NA ctf, i could only take seriously the following people:

vibration (because he plays all gametypes, plays actively and is more or less a fair player)
myself (because i've played more than anyone in that gametype, for my region and yes i do know everyone and their tricks and style of play and how it's affected the playerbase)
gpig (because of his elaborate ideas , particularly in ctf4)
jones (because he's neutral - voluntarily and has a good understanding of all the maps)
wintersorrow, alec, etc, you get the idea the list isn't that long but as it stands currently, guys like avenged, tucker and incubus have weight and arguably preferences in regards to how they would want the skillmatching system to work out, in their favor. (one only needs to see incubus' only rage on the ql forum when players wern't able to tier down after an update, i know you've seen that post of his).

it's not like cooloutac affects ctf discussion as he mainly plays ca by his own admission, so sorting out irrational criticisms is only necessary if a person doesn't meet some sort of criteria, which all the above meet.

Every time someone loses a game there's a chance they will get upset and try to avoid taking responsibility for their loss by blaming everything else under the sun, but especially the skill matching system.

if they rage after every lost game, then yes, i can understand that, but if their msg in general deems true and rings a bell with others, than that person obviously has a legitimate claim, no matter how many times he rages about it (tahts' like people saying i'm not legitimate because i alawys talk about incubus tierslumming, when the latter is still true..... sadly...., my point is still valid)

There's also the problem of what people perceive to be a skill 'unmatched' game. Sometimes a small difference in ability or knowledge can result in a large score for one player, even if that player's effective playing strength is almost exactly the same as their opponent(s).

well thats' normally the difference between the perspectives of a noob compared to a veteran player. A noob wont' know that diff in skill and what truly imbalanced the game, for myself however, if i see mythz, avenged and incubus on blue and 4 names iv'e never seen before on red playing alongside vibration i know it's not a small difference in ability, but a matter of vibration not being able to cover defense, mid and offense at the same time....

Really the vast majority of the added cvars have a trivial implementation and would have required very little development time and testing.

perhaps this is true, as these cvars were already in the installation and simply needed to be turned on, but that's not what the public thinks. Despite that, the fact that they are a priority over proof positive effects a ladder has on a game (see wc3 and its successes with it) , is what troubles most including myself.

Perhaps QL has been an administration nightmare behind the scenes and this has gobbled up what little resources there were, I have no idea and can only speculate.

perhaps. I understand bethesda has a larger hand in what is allowed to be communicated to the community and i'm sure there's a lot of secrecy behind ql's engine, etc before they release it open source but keep in mind that a lot of games with almost no capitol have made it mainstream with a successful marketing strategy, something ql lacks and few can argue even exists. So, mismanagement with available resources is still a valid argument in regards to ql's failures to date.

general strategy of the updates seems to be to do what can be done in an extremely short amount of time and only venture into that which is unlikely to produce bugs.

quite obvious , to me at least, which really begs to ask the question, why was ql taken out of closed beta if it wasn't ready to be meet expectations, demand and a projected outcome or goal (was there even a goal?, other than to test out if a browser platform can work?)

Even if the resources have not enabled the more impactful and highly desired changes, it is still clear to me that many desired changes could have been made with the time allotted.

agreed

I disagree. I don't think the added cvars offer much of an advantage if any.

fatsky and rounded corners alone drastically help increase fps input and one can only improve on that by reducing impact sparks, rocket trails, projectiles in general, etc etc. Without going into much more detail, ping can be improved by a variety of tricks, some cvar related , some more to do with reconfiguring system specs, etc). There are clear cut advantages....

I think I know 99 % of the cvars

well youre on the complete opposite end of the spectrum then. That is not the typical quake live players knowledge of this game, especially with the lack of guides available on how to implement said cvars from muffinman86's vast post.

Probably ~5-10 % of them make for the biggest potential impact on gameplay experience. it may very well be 5 % in fact.

unquestionably a small amount, although some, if used in conjunction with others can be more impactful. But yes 5-10% seems reasonable.

y own config which is rather tweaked is only 127 lines, which is very small when you consider that 45 of those lines are key bindings (esdf and weapons is already 16 lines).

i tried changing my config once but it got deleted in an update and i vowed never to waste another 2 hours on it. It shouldn't be necessary anyways. Everyone should start with the same setup , ping notwithstanding, again this is part of my argument for the noobs and their uphill battle from the start (since their default config lacks even the simplest of commands enabled (the console itself....)

This has been a very enjoyable discussion. I look forward to more like this. See i'm not so bad when i get a normal response... but you knew that already..... you just like pushing my buttons..... nonetheless, i like change. Perhaps this can be the start of a beautiful flowering friendship........

A long post does not stop you from being "bad", it just increases the space that you waste.

New voices.. could have been used to counteract the one sided views that the elites. Instead, those voices are muted and labeled as trolls, noobs, idiots, retards, etc.

If someone is rude, vulgar, insulting, has poor spelling/grammar and constantly misinterprets and/or refuses to listen to the points of others, they will not be taken seriously, and will likely be labeled in the way you mentioned.

Their ideas are just as plausible.

Anyone's ideas are not necessarily plausible. It is difficult to generalize.

Just look at how cooloutac is treated.

Coolout is treated the way that he wants to be treated. He's been given every benefit of the doubt and every opportunity to be rational and contributory. He simply isn't interested.

Yes, he's repeating himself 10fold, i get it, iv'e been there, i still do it at times out of frustration, but it happens mainly due to the fact that unless you're a somebody or were a somebody in this community (not speaking about esr, just ql in general) then you're not taken seriously, as if only people with quake experience know the answers.

I disagree. This is what's called an ethos (ethical) appeal, which is the source of the message. There are plenty of people who will evaluate a person's message on Logos (logical) grounds and ignore the credibility of the source.

However the extreme ends of the ethos appeal do have weight. Coolout and yourself have about as bad of a reputation as you can possibly get, to the point that pretty much anything you say will be ignored or not taken seriously.

SyncError will be taken seriously if he posts on QL matters obviously. Pro players are listened to as they are well respected. It doesn't mean though that others cannot participate. If the message is good and it resonates it will be given due thought by many.

it's not like cooloutac affects ctf discussion as he mainly plays ca by his own admission, so sorting out irrational criticisms is only necessary if a person doesn't meet some sort of criteria,

that's not really that hard to do. Ther'es really only so many people who truly know their specific playerbase.

This was in response to my statement "It is important to separate the irrational criticisms from the rational ones."

I really disagree with this approach. This is a focus on the source of the message, and not the message itself. When an evaluation is made Logos should take precedence 99% of the time. That 1% being the extreme ends of the ethos I mentioned and some fraction of that the pathos (emotional) appeal.

I don't care if a person never played CTF in their life. If their message says something correct and thought provoking about it then it should be considered. Otherwise you run the risk of elitism, something I'm sure you are opposed to.

perhaps this is true, as these cvars were already in the installation and simply needed to be turned on,

Nitpicking a bit, this isn't really what I meant by trivial implementation. The code for them might not be there, but they are very easy to code.

quite obvious , to me at least, which really begs to ask the question, why was ql taken out of closed beta if it wasn't ready to be meet expectations, demand and a projected outcome or goal (was there even a goal?, other than to test out if a browser platform can work?)

So this is what I think happened. They started with plenty of development however not long after the release their team got pulled into other projects and it became very starved in that regard.

After it had been going a while it was decided that if they made no profits that it would have to be shut down, so to prevent this they quickly threw it out of beta and sold premium/pro accounts. There was every indication that the "coming out of beta" project was rushed and thrown together in a hurry with chewing gum and walnut shells.

Perhaps they were issued some nasty timetable from Zenimax to immediately reduce the bad ratio of cost/profit either by shutting it down or by increasing profits.

There are clear cut advantages....

This was in regard to cvars.

I really think the advantage gained by cvars is exaggerated. Not only this but really the information is readily available. Many things can be changed with the menu, and I would even go so far as to say that tinkering with the game's settings is fun.

i tried changing my config once but it got deleted in an update and i vowed never to waste another 2 hours on it. It shouldn't be necessary anyways.

Really it shouldn't take anywhere near 2 hours. You just want to make sure your weapon and movement keys are set, that you can see well enough, and that your mouse sensitivity is reasonably comfortable.

Probably 80 % of my config could be set up easily in the menus.

Everyone should start with the same setup , ping notwithstanding, again this is part of my argument for the noobs and their uphill battle from the start (since their default config lacks even the simplest of commands enabled (the console itself....)

I would like to change the default config to something more palatable.

I'm not sure what you mean by everyone starting with the same setup, but it's probably a complex topic. I mean certain things _should_ be customizable such as movement keys and mouse sensitivity. The brightness has to be adjustable since the game appears differently on different video cards/displays.

If someone is rude, vulgar, insulting, has poor spelling/grammar and constantly misinterprets and/or refuses to listen to the points of others, they will not be taken seriously, and will likely be labeled in the way you mentioned.

i'm talking about the ones that do use good grammer but are ignored.... for no other reason than, they're new to ql or to quake in general....

Anyone's ideas are not necessarily plausible. It is difficult to generalize.

but the ones with good suggestions are plausible,... don't complicate the issue, i'm not giving you the opposite side of the spectrum, (bad ideas vs good ideas or badly explained to well versed), i'm simply talking about who id listens to in terms of experience or know how and more often than not, it's simply the people who rub syncerror's genie longer than most (like yourself perhaps?)

Coolout is treated the way that he wants to be treated. He's been given every benefit of the doubt and every opportunity to be rational and contributory. He simply isn't interested.

you should read back over his first posts on the ql forum. He was acting quite professionally. It was only after the 1000 troll remakrs against his ideas and id's refusal to communicate back that turned him into a broken record. This is the case for many people on the ql forums whose voices go u nheard.

ideas not in step with popular opinon are often shot down. That doesn't make me or him wrong. It's not easy to voice your thoughts on something that noone is ready to deal with. Luckily more and more people are waking up to the things i've been saying for 2 years now.

If the message is good and it resonates it will be given due thought by many.

if they're lucky enough to post in a thread that the ttrolls miss

I don't care if a person never played CTF in their life. If their message says something correct and thought provoking about it then it should be considered. Otherwise you run the risk of elitism, something I'm sure you are opposed to.

not when it comes to gameplay and the people that inhabit that game. If someone doesn't play that gametype they also wouldn't know the people and the issues surrounding their actions. Otherwise, in any other situation, if merely speaking about criticism, good or bad, about a given gametype, then sure anyone can voice in.... obviously

After it had been going a while it was decided that if they made no profits that it would have to be shut down, so to prevent this they quickly threw it out of beta and sold premium/pro accounts. There was every indication that the "coming out of beta" project was rushed and thrown together in a hurry with chewing gum and walnut shells.

right, well based on that anology and the impending doom surrounding the drop in players who don't renew, ql might very well shut down then, although todd and sync dont' appear to have thrown in the towel just yet.

I really think the advantage gained by cvars is exaggerated

i don't. once my fps changed to 125 solid, i started pwning with rail last last year and my acc shot up 5-9 points.

i

i'm simply talking about who id listens to in terms of experience or know how and more often than not, it's simply the people who rub syncerror's genie longer than most (like yourself perhaps?)

Absolutely not.

I don't think any of my suggestions have ever been implemented, or if they have it must be like 1/1000. Tons of suggestions made by Yakumo have not been implemented, in fact I'd say almost nothing he has suggested has been done. I've seen pro circuit players make suggestions, again nothing.

I don't think SyncError listens to anyone in particular, and it is my opinion that the users have had very little influence on the game's direction.

The main influence is what he himself has decided with his own mind. If it appears that the changes (or lack of them) caters more to the experienced players it is more coincidental than anything.

It is like saying the Hale–Bopp comet caters more to democrats because Clinton was in office when it last showed up. Truth is, like SyncError, Hale-Bopp is not around nearly enough even if it could possess such a quality to cater to anyone.

you should read back over his first posts on the ql forum. He was acting quite professionally. It was only after the 1000 troll remakrs against his ideas and id's refusal to communicate back that turned him into a broken record. This is the case for many people on the ql forums whose voices go u nheard.

Every moment people have a choice in how they act.

Forum goers are not responsible for Id's feedback, yet we are made to suffer his perpetual rants. Unless you put him on ignore of course, which I highly recommend.

ideas not in step with popular opinon are often shot down. That doesn't make me or him wrong. It's not easy to voice your thoughts on something that noone is ready to deal with. Luckily more and more people are waking up to the things i've been saying for 2 years now.

What is the popular opinion? That the skill matching system should be improved? That cheaters should be banned? Who is against those things?

If you have the nerve to insult strangers over the net for no reason I have a hard time believing that you'd find it difficult voicing a controversial opinion.

I don't think SyncError listens to anyone in particular

this can't be true for 1 reason especially

because jones single handedly changed ctf4 with his ideas.

What is the popular opinion?

Most people are lemmings lorfa. They want to fit in and often agree with the poster before them as not to get ridiculed. It's the nature of society at the moment. In this community especially (again ql comm as a whole). but it's the people with controversial ideas that are going to change the direction of this game at this point.

QL needs new direction. And if, besides jones' input, syncerror truly hasn't listened to anyone, then he should be replaced with someone with some understanding on marketing who actually properly advertises this game. He's too focused on social media and isn't even utilitizing it correctly. He can't say facebook is successful if he's not interacting with anyone and only posting updates that a few pros on esr care about.

New life could be sprung into this game with some brand new ideas or some old, previously discarded ideas from people who are willing to take a chance that unpopular opinion has merit. Someone who at facevalue, at least, appears to care.

They may find that, those unpopular ideas (on how to change ctf for example) are not farfetched and can be linked back to a host of people from the old forum (if we could go back to that...). I might be one of the last dinosaurs to think this game still breathes life, but i'm not convinced bethesda isn't watching more closely now, with all the things said at quakecon from carmack himself.

You can tell, from that panel of community managers, that syncerror doesn't fit into the mold. He's not outgoing, doesn't have any charisma and certainly couldn't pull together a group of people on the street, whereas that girl (w/broken voice) could. That's ultimately the job given to him. If he was really an associate producer as everyone claims he is now, than what was he doing on that panel?

He is still the community manager, thats' obvious by his replies, but he was never first to answer, and just repeated what the others already said. He's just too inexperienced for that role (as manager) and couldn't give proper direction as he seems to base his opinion solely on stats (apparent by his answers where he talked about there being 1000 forum users/hour and x # of facebook users reading their page (i think he said 60-70,000). You can't run a game solely on stats.....

Plus they're not even accurate stats as you know. He just props them up. For example, he mentions 1000 users on the ql forum at any point in an hour. Who believes that? Anyone with eyes can see only 70-100 people are on .... granted that may change every 10-15 minutes, so 500 is plausible (at peak times) but certainly not 1000, that's stretching it. And that's been part of my argument all along, that he's not honest....

...The QL population #'s being another, which as we all know now, is also drastically off.... after the announcement that they are no longer able to support this game with profit. sponge, sync, ordus (those 3 guys) = at least 210,000 in wages (i have to believe they're raking in 70k a year). That means they're not getting even half of that in subscriptions 100,000 / 50 = only 2000 pro accounts.

We can't keep going in the same direction, with the lemmings following closely behind and expect different results. I don't understand why this is so difficult to understand. I'm not the only one saying this.... We need change, and i'm not talking the obama type care (nothing but hot air), i mean actual change.]

this is the trend we're going on
http://trends.google.com/websites?q=quakelive.com&sa=N

july number should be in soon...It went up this time last year...

this can't be true for 1 reason especially, because jones single handedly changed ctf4 with his ideas

It is exceedingly rare that something like this happens though. Regardless, changes to ctf4 were being suggested long before this.

from that panel of community managers, that syncerror doesn't fit into the mold.[q]

I really just don't know what to think about SyncError's performance as a community manager and leader of the QL project. I don't want to make some grand judgement based on ignorance, but there appears to be no way to learn more about what it is he actually does at Id.

I can say something very strange is going on if he worked exclusively on Quake Live.

I don't want to think of Sync as some incompetent narcissistic moron, and I would think that it would be rather unlikely.

I suppose I would welcome someone else taking over the project if for no other reason than to see what difference it makes.

[q]he seems to base his opinion solely on stats

It's fine by me, statistics can be very useful. The thing is that what he posts on there is like site/event news. He engages in no two-way communication with gamers on any site be it on facebook or the forum. So this part of the presentation was really of no interest to me.

That means they're not getting even half of that in subscriptions

I doubt it is that severe, Carmack's statement that "it isn't terribly expensive to run" would seem to indicate that they aren't losing that kind of money on it, even if it's not profitable.

So you two came to a conclusion that either way we're in shit hole, and we need change, also that syncerror doesn't sync and commits errors.

Now what?

While talking about the game on esr is nice and all, I don't see you petitioning for anyone to loose their job, or head, or just come flat out a admit incompetence. You aren't even forming up an open letter to address the issues, while you do have channels through which you can get people to answer you.

I really don't get why you guys don't:
Write up a column, which summaries ideas and efforts made by community outside of few hardcore pro players that do focus groups so they can practice maps and game changes before all other players. Than post it for some troll/few serious answers so you can focus on a few points better, then send that letter to:
Bethesda, id, LO3, derQuaker, Slasher, DjWheat asking them to make an episode addressing those issues after 3 years of the game while there is an irc channel to which people interested can join and roast who ever bothers showing up to defend the current state?

Ideally you could make something shake and move about, even produce a change in attitude towards quakelive as a dying community. Because as far I know, Quakelive and it's community brought back tox has rapha, brought back czm, has started many pickup channels, has weekly duel cups, has seasonal tdm/ctf/ca/iCTF leagues, has players interested in playing but needs new blood.
Still has a surprise up it's sleeve on big tournaments which make it worthwhile to watch and enjoy.

What I'm saying here is that it's not our responsibility to and do even more of their job by attracting new blood and giving them everything most people work for and gained over the years on a golden plate. It's their job, and they stink at it. Maybe syncerror doesn't , but sure as hell everybody else in that company, by not giving a fuck about development issues here, stinks.

There's a lot of promising code and apps out there to have them payed for developed and integrated into quake live.
Statistical apps, config explanation and generation apps, demo playing and analyzing apps etc.

Instead of having them integrated and explained they still stand still.

If you ask me ... I'd have everyone do the practise mode for 2 weeks before they even try online playing. You can't go play anyone unless you can do strafe jump on command, or an rj with knowing where you are gonna land etc.
Learning curve my ass when you get nuked first time you set foot on a server.

While talking about the game on esr is nice and all, I don't see you petitioning for anyone to loose their job, or head, or just come flat out a admit incompetence.

There are two problems with this.

For one there is no reason to believe that such a petition would have any effect.

Two, we cannot be totally certain that any particular individual is responsible enough for the failure of this project to warrant some disciplinary action. Certainly SyncError is the best candidate for this, but without complete certainty I don't find it ethical to demand his job.

Even though it seems unlikely at this point, it is possible that Sync is a reasonable person who is quite capable of doing great things with Quake Live, but has had his hands tied by the higher-ups.

You aren't even forming up an open letter to address the issues, while you do have channels through which you can get people to answer you.

No, we do not. I can even vouch for Ray on this because he has a reputation (duly earned) as a lunatic and anything he says will likely be ignored.

As for me every time I have asked even a mundane question I have received no answer. I have no reason to believe that they will respond to more serious inquiries.

I really don't get why you guys don't:
Write up a column, which summaries ideas and efforts made by community outside of few hardcore pro players that do focus groups so they can practice maps and game changes before all other players.

Columns and open letters might help with public awareness, but there's still no guarantee anyone at Id will ever read it. The lights are on, but no one is in the office.

Than post it for some troll/few serious answers so you can focus on a few points better, then send that letter to:
Bethesda, id, LO3, derQuaker, Slasher, DjWheat asking them to make an episode addressing those issues after 3 years of the game while there is an irc channel to which people interested can join and roast who ever bothers showing up to defend the current state?

As far as I know, even "loud" messages have gone ignored.

Money perhaps, they say that money talks. If we could raise a bunch of money to pay for QL development it might be enough for Id to talk with us.

Ideally you could make something shake and move about, even produce a change in attitude towards quakelive as a dying community.

Sounds good to me, couldn't hurt.

Because as far I know, Quakelive and it's community brought back tox has rapha, brought back czm, has started many pickup channels, has weekly duel cups, has seasonal tdm/ctf/ca/iCTF leagues, has players interested in playing but needs new blood.
Still has a surprise up it's sleeve on big tournaments which make it worthwhile to watch and enjoy.

Not sure we can credit the community for the return of tox and czm, but the rest of what you mentioned is quite true. The community can do much.

What I'm saying here is that it's not our responsibility to and do even more of their job by attracting new blood and giving them everything most people work for and gained over the years on a golden plate. It's their job, and they stink at it. Maybe syncerror doesn't , but sure as hell everybody else in that company, by not giving a fuck about development issues here, stinks.

Oh, I hate it. To me it's almost like a failed office romance. Started out great, lots of hope and possibilities, appeared to go stale in the middle, then tons of frustration at the end. Now we just don't talk. I can see that she's stuck in a rut, but if she (QL) ever changes let me know. Just not going to hold my breath.

agreed with you until

we cannot be totally certain that any particular individual is responsible enough for the failure of this project to warrant some disciplinary action

He abuses his power as i've tried to demonstrate with incubus and av8r. That alone warrants disciplinary actions. We also know he spends a great deal of time mapping instead of fulfilling his role as "community manager". Overall, the decline in players in the US alone can be traced back to Syncerror's refusal to take care of the issues plaguing those servers.

That guy must have really damaged your ego.

if you only knew how much damage guys like incubus/lollercopter/av8r/avenged/etc did back in 2009 to push players out of ctf into ca, causing a ripple affect across all na servers then you'd understand my frustation. This can easily happen on any server when 1 guy is allowed to roam free and abuse the skillmatching system to no end. And then to see him play with syncerror in "family oriented" games is like throwing rotten eggs at the community.

Personally, i think they've been following some sort of plan. To piss the pub players off enough to the point they pay for subscriptions. It just doen'st make any sense to endorse incubus' behavior, knowing full well people are quitting the game over it. Not to mention the bad rep they'll get out of it, when those players trash id and the game on other forums and explain their rite of passage and the crap they had to put up with.

If there's going to be any kind of hand holding as some suggested, then it won't be for this game with these developers as they are as far removed from the pub scene as you can possibly get. The only people they associate themselves with are other like minded individuals (like adrenal1ne, gotti, etc).

Overtime, if this behavior of theirs keeps getting reinforced a case can certainly be made for the fact that syncerror' may very well be trying to throw this game to get back at bethesda. I didn't see much of a relationship between him and the other bethesda managers in that latest quakecon video. He was sitting on the outside with his head down most of the time and wasn't engaging in conversation like the rest of them. He looks cast out.

Too bad todd isn't more involved. He at least shows passion for the game....

For one there is no reason to believe that such a petition would have any effect.

That didn't really mean having a real public petiton for anyone to loose his job.
As far as I know, angry mob syndrome does have some advantages when trying to push things around

Even though it seems unlikely at this point, it is possible that Sync is a reasonable person who is quite capable of doing great things with Quake Live, but has had his hands tied by the higher-ups.

The likelihood of it again has nothing to do with the current state. I know you guys are familiar with it, but this never has been something pressed and as we know the release cycle of dev packs is becoming more rare.

Money perhaps, they say that money talks. If we could raise a bunch of money to pay for QL development it might be enough for Id to talk with us.

Oh man when you have guys around just waiting to ask then it really shouldn't be hard to make a public document by community and then have cypher, have stermy, have draven 2gd, Scotsman, vor, and guys that are generally interested in keeping this game alive do the quakelive/gamemedia spamming.
There's a guy, maybe not at id soft, but at Zenimax, and Bethesda reading a bunch of crap about any game by those companies and noting what's going on.
Public rage, and public dissatisfaction by current state can only produce a few outcomes:
a) Shutting down the game
b) Making changes that are demanded
c) Releasing the platform for modding and community work.

Oh, I hate it. To me it's almost like a failed office romance. Started out great, lots of hope and possibilities, appeared to go stale in the middle, then tons of frustration at the end. Now we just don't talk. I can see that she's stuck in a rut, but if she (QL) ever changes let me know. Just not going to hold my breath.

Nobody is asking you to... do you think I hold mine. I payed for a game, and prolly will pay some more, only to have them release nothing new, and even do a bunch of mistakes which will make the game I pay for "die". From "my community" all I get are doomed game comments and general bullshit. I pay for it, and I play it, to the maximum that I can. So they have some log and advertisement time. No money from donations will help them if their core money system is shit.

dude this community in general has as bad a repuation as any video game can get.

css survived through the most bots in history cause it still had honorable admins amongst the mass of servers.

halo surivied all the rude little immature kids, because there were still some mature people around to hold the foundation.

quakelive never had any good admins, and even their employees themselves are just as bad dude. And well their little foundational community? well look around. look at lorfa, diplodok, syncerror, celestial, deadaim, etc.... there they are. name some names. thats all that plays anyways. theres your foundation. and anyone is surprised most normal people in the world would rather spit on this game then play it? they'd rather play LoL and Sc2, instead of an fps?

the learning curve only is a problem, when fair play and competitive matches are not a fkn priority.

[this game is no longer a respected esport!!! its jokes.. its the game known for having noone playing it except a bunch of arrogant assholes and cheaters

you must be really proud to be a part of this community lorfa. You have your head so far up your ass its disturbing.

I myself, have no problems not being respected by veteran players and posters like yourself. in-game i have plenty of people how love me just as much hate me.

but you bet your ass they almost all respect me alike. Because they know i love quake i'm passionate about it, i honestly can dominate t3, and i honest get pwned in t4, and they know everything i say is true. whether they care or want to hear it or not.

ray+lorfa+netbook screen=tl;dr

No need for Lorfa or the netbook, tbh.

Holy textwalls Batman!

Well once rage is out hopefully we see some progress, even if it is slow. Ultimately I would like to see QL finished, where when a new player wants to try quakelive its an enjoyable experience. So there should be some hand holding at least until the player can strafejump and rocketjump and get to learn a map/gametype or two. But I think after the bottom tiers your matches won't be always fair and it'll be up to the player to pick and choose who s/he plays :)

- hmm that gave me an idea, maybe make it easier to check players stats in game???. I remember when I idled duel servers for a game I would use a different browser to check out the players profile heh

and why would they want quakelive to have any player income when Rage comes out.
What is in their interest is that Rage makes a completely new multiplayer platform and have people already playing QL move on to their new game, spending money on it.

As I see it, if they wanted to do something with quakelive, they should've done it either 1 year ago, by having it fully developed, or maybe try to make quakelive as a new competitive shooter standard and try to promote it as such by having it enlisted in all the leagues, and tournaments and attracting new players all the time, big money prizes etc. Going for the long haul.

Maybe have a campaign that when it comes to online FPS games, QL is the shit and nothing else comes even close. They have the idea, just not the execution of professional software company. Though I just can't understand why...

still waiting for "the quakecon update".

if it doesn't happen today it's safe to say that id doesn't care about the game anymore

it didn't happen

inb4, quake isn't dead, we'll have ladders by 2019, just be patient

what "quakecon update"?

maybe ql should have biogun from ut (only on maps like toxicity, chemical reaction etc)

buzzkills

i'd be premium if I could pay monthly, and I think a lot of people would

i don't think a lot of people want to subscribe with the flood of cheating going on right now

Kids don't think

true. But you'd still subscribe with all of this madness? What for? everyone plays on standard servers anyways. save your money man, they could close down ql in the next year and there's no refund once you cancel auto renewal...

It's a fact that id can't work on QL right now, for whatever reason. Only the community can do something: getting some new players and being nice to them to keep 'em playing, for example.

link

no.

disneyland >>>>> that way

people being nice to them?

That is a message that needs to come from syncerror himself. And he has actually been sending the exact opposite message. He has allowed guys like incubus to slum lower tiered servers for the past 2 years now and allows av8r to call new players n***** and fags and allows guys like adrenal1ne to teamkill at free will without any consequence.

And you see the effect of it it now. Everyone is starting to do it knowing full well nothing will be done to stop it If sync would have stopped the abuse from the start we wouldn't be here today.

And instead of working to fix this epidemic, he's mapping.....

YEAH SYNC, BECAUSE NEW MAPS WILL STOP TEAMKILLING AND CHEATING,ETC... GOOD THINKING MAN... GLAD YOU'RE IN CHARGE...

he has error in his name for good reason eh? :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZk7-1uGmc4

If quake live had modding capacity, the community could and would fix all the technical issues.

It's true, I come from an alternate reality where the game was released 11 years ago except it didn't run in a web browser. There are thousands of mods and maps with near unlimited variety and it was my favourite game of all time. If only I could find a way to reopen the portal

http://imageshack.us/f/830/2z9cshw.png/

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/8643/qldating.jpg

lol :)

edit: lol you should have changed the dating for seniors to "dating for quakers" lol

am i the only one who thinks quakelive is decent. people just don't realize most casual gamers will never play ql because of the new generation console shit. halo is ten times as shit yet way more populair. asking money for some 10 year old game and complaining its not a business model. no shit capt obvioous. they ONLY had to tweak some shit from and an existing game.

yes you are the only one

why shouldn't casual gamers be able to play quake? why do quake players like lorfa think its their right to slum on their games.

why not just leave them alone to play with themselves? I think maybe guys like lorfa had no father figures, or something happened to them in their childhood.

Guys like Lorfa might think they have more pepole on their side because most normal people like me and ray don't even post or play the game anymore. but the truth is lorfa, your stuck in the past like some barbarian that sticks babies up on pikes. while most games nowadays are more civilized, with more regulations for fair play and competitive matches. things guys like lorfa call dumb'd down.

as if team stacking and slumming are considered skills and are just part of the "learning curve"

most normal people like me and ray don't even post or play the game anymore.

You and ray are banned.

while most games nowadays are more civilized, with more regulations for fair play and competitive matches.

Most other games are just as bad, and many are worse - you obviously don't play much.

you don't play at all and haven't for over 2 years, so shut it

I do play games, I just said that I didn't play SC2.

you don't play quake live, nor even like it, in fact you just said, "ql is bad", so your opinion on ql is void.

I need to say "QL is good" to have an opinion? Do you listen to yourself?

you can't have an opinion on gameplay, that which cooloutac has adressed, since you have absolutely no experience within the game to know.

I do have experience with the gameplay.

you gave away your beta key.

... What? No, I never gave away any of the keys I had. In fact, I even had about 4-5 accounts in closed beta (due to invites), and the multiple that I got from Quakecon.

liar. i can't link to it as you deleted that thread yesterday (along with other posts from that forum you troll on), but you did. nice try :)

Deleted what post? Feel free to have an admin "undelete" this mysical post - I give full permission! Good luck coming up with an excuse for this lie.

on teamliquid.com

don't act all surprised, i went through your entire post history 4 days ago, and yesterday when i checked back through it again, it wasn't there, nor many other posts in regards to quake live.i'm starting to think you're a pathalogical liar.

Oh, you mean TL. I'd give you permission to ask a moderator to undelete any posts that I have deleted, but YOU CAN'T DELETE POSTS ON TL. How are you going to lie your way out of this?

then where did your posts about your beta key for ql go? huh?

Either you suffer from mental issues, or you were lying. Which is it?

you're the only liar here bud. YOU DONT AND NEVER HAVE PLAYED QL.

you even stated you "HATE THE COMPANY"

your opinion is truly void dude.

So which is it? Were you lying about the post, or is it just hiding in your imagination? Either fess up, or admit that you need professional help.

Why do you do this?

Counter-trolling.

I can't imagine how 50-post conversations with raythenoob or jamerio might be satisfying.

It's no more than a minute of work, at most.

How much does it add up to, though? What's the point?

If he wasn't spending his time arguing with me, he'd be doing it with someone else. He's the type that is unable to understand negative feedback, so he pushes on with his initial delusions. With an outlet to let it all out, he will eventually give up when he has nothing left. His responses to such lines of discussion have already begun to end more quickly, and will eventually end entirely.

So, you're wasting your time with him so others don't have to?

Correct.

There's something here about others' time being more worthy.

It's not entirely altruistic, as it's in everyone's interest that he lose interest with this site.

But you're still losing time. Not better to ignore him?

What time am I losing?

Since you did say it'd be better if he ended posting entirely (or so I understand your comment), I auume you don't enjoy talking to him.

What does that have to do with losing time?

I assume that time spent on a grueling activity which is an end in itself is time wasted.

It won't be wasted if it works.

I mean that if you are doing it solely for getting rid of him, it would be easier to just ignore him. If there is some other motivation or satisfaction to be gained here, it's a different matter.

The time it will take for him to leave will be much longer if I don't intervene, and he will still be causing issues around the site regardless. His activity has been much less recently, and I'm sure it won't be long before he leaves.

don't forget chubz, they're still going at it in the id update thread

I think it might be possible to have a worthwhile conversation with chubz, though. Obviously not in this case.

"you and ray are banned"

exactly and what does that tell you? cooncidence this game is doomed? pardon the pun.


"Most other games are just as bad, and many are worse - you obviously don't play much"

well i know most other games have ladders and team autobalances.

while of course you will always have unsportsmanlike people. at least other games lessen the impact of these players so they are NOT as bad. BY FAR!!! i think your insane, imo, because to be honest dude. every other popular game out there has these things.

I mean name ONE popular game that doesn't. I can name some unpopular ones that don't... like quake for example....lmao.

css, sc2, LoL, BC2, COD, TF2 etc..... all games i play.

only game i'm waiting for right now is bf3. noone from quakelive is gonna play rage, and thats ok because ID doesn't give a crap about quakelive or any of you anyways.

exactly and what does that tell you? cooncidence this game is doomed? pardon the pun.

It tells me that you don't play because you are banned, not because you decided to stop playing.

css, sc2, LoL, BC2, COD, TF2 etc..... all games i play.

Few of these games have any of the features that you want, none of them have all of them, and none of them have less cheating/griefing/slumming. These are not the things that make a game popular, and they never have been. CS absolutely dominated Quake, it has none of the features that you want, and it has a MUCH worse community as far as cheating/slumming/griefing.

The problem has never been the features.

Whats your LoL username?

"It tells me that you don't play because you are banned, not because you decided to stop playing."

wrong i still play quakelive everday i'm only banned from the forums. do some reasearch before replying like an utter fool.



"Few of these games have any of the features that you want, none of them have all of them, and none of them have less cheating/griefing/slumming. These are not the things that make a game popular, and they never have been. CS absolutely dominated Quake, it has none of the features that you want, and it has a MUCH worse community as far as cheating/slumming/griefing.

The problem has never been the features."

ok features being a skill matched ladder and autobalance.

all of those games have either both or one of thes "features".

and the problem has always been the features. if you guys lke to call this game haardcore, and claim it has the biggest learning curve and widest skill gap and most superior and deepest technical skill out of any video game. well then you need to segregate the playerbase. so it doesn't become big dog eat little dog till theres only one dog left.

riot bans you from leauge of legends for just idling too much during games. you can even report a player for being "unskilled" or any numerous other offenses. true story. and i don't thin its a cooncidence that game has even more people playing pvp now then wow. millions of accounts. and at least 100k online a day. and fk ya theres less people cheating. are you deranged? if half of this playerbase of 100s cheat, and slum and alt and team stack. can you imagine if millions where playing? hahahah your too funny dude. maybe thats why ID doesn't care. If all they have is 100s playing anyways. and I mean are they really going to ban half of them? Actually i'd say, if they were to include everyone who quits games? makes an alt account, harasses players, blah blah you name it, Riot bans for it. even tiering up when your newb would u get suspended by riot. true motherfucking story.

riot would literally have to come in, and i'd say, ban even MORE then half this playersbase and you know it dude.

sure the game is slower paced. although the matches take forever. and its real easy to get banned for quitting too much take it from me. theres still plenty of people playing. and theres just as huge a skill gap as quake, besides the leveling of attributes and talent trees.

i wouldn't call LoL very newb friendly but the fact is if RIOT was running quaklive... this shit would be alot more popular.

wrong i still play quakelive everday i'm only banned from the forums. do some reasearch before replying like an utter fool.

... which has nothing to do with it. You spend your time on the forums, not in the game. You stopped "playing" because you are banned.

all of those games have either both or one of thes "features".

SC2 - yes
css - nope
LoL - close
BC2 - nope
COD - nope
TF2 - very nope

and i don't thin its a cooncidence that game has even more people playing pvp now then wow. millions of accounts. and at least 100k online a day.

WoW PVP was always bad, but WoW has 10 million subscribers, and 1 million concurrent users at any given time.

i wouldn't call LoL very newb friendly but the fact is if RIOT was running quaklive... this shit would be alot more popular.

You mean like Quake 3? No, that didn't even sell 1 million copies, and ended up with 3k players. Maybe Quake 4? No, no... That one also didn't sell a million copies, and ended up with nothing. Quake Wars? No... same thing here. Quake has never been big, and none of the features you want could ever help it.

to you every game is shit compared to sc2.

as can be seen here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.p...=128310#20

and here

This is because, as far as FPS games go, Warsow is terrible. Due to the weapon system (strong/weak ammo) and the speed/maneuverability, the game is more about hunting down items than it is actually participating in fighting the other player. It's a chore to play, and boring to watch.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=74680#11

it's funny that you're constantly attacking quake live and the like while consistently promoting sc2.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.p...tpage=3#47
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=115899

and you constantly bring up the argument about google trends, this time as evidenced in the following quote where you are trying to kill off 2 more games in your argument.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.p...age=22#424

and once again you totally lie in your argument as the people who responded to you in that thread pointed out when they replied with the actual data.

Only SC2? Did you miss my support of TF2, Guild Wars, EVE, Doom 2, CPM, QW, Portal, Minecraft, etc? I support SCBW/SC2 as the only games that have any business being used as a competitive game, but I like many games for many reasons.

WoW has 10 million subscribers, and 1 million concurrent users at any given time

i thought you said they're leaving left and right? :)

Anyone who plays right now can tell you that people are leaving left and right. Blizzard might be making a lot of money, but they're also spending it. Blizzard seems to enjoy inflating numbers to the public, as well.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.p...age=22#424

"With 11.1 million subscribers as of June 2011"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft

sounds like you agree with wikipedia. contradict much? oh right, you're just trying to win arguments. Classic flip flopper. You really should be a politician.

That was in 2008, and was completely accurate. I was never speaking in general terms, but in the LOSSES of players - they have been getting enough new players to cover the gaps, up until the last 2 quarters.

lol

in 2008 wow made their pvp more e-sport validated.

by making tourney realms and letting players pvp already at full attribute levels with all the top gear automatically available at the start.

No, that made it more available, but it never actually made the game viable for professional play.

I didn't stop playing quakelive vedic. are you mental? i said i play it everyday. CooloutAC is my name. again your exposing yourself as someone who has nothing to do with quakelive. you don't even play it. stop talking about it please for your own sake.

and like i said all of those games at least have a team autoblanace. some have skill matching as well.

css has the best autobalance going dude. its a mod made by the community years ago that valve adopted for all their games, like tf2. it balances players on teams througout the match based on scores. I mean if these companies want to stop community modders nowadays. well then they have to take their fkn place. ID sucks plain and simple. a community modder would be able to make an anti cheat system and measures to regulate fair play if ID can't, because they actually play games and are more in touch.

shit those community modders are prolly why css was popular and is still the most popular fps on the pc to date!!! actually its why we have the game in the first place.

LoL, close? are u insane? its an even stricter skill matching, cause it automatically chooses the server for you. so you can't go around hunting certain newbs on servers like u can with a server browser lmao. it automatcially matches up teams on servers automatically. it doesn't need an auto team balance. cause players get banned for quitting, and its only 3v3 or 5v5 which is automatcally skill matched alread.

BC2, has a team autoblanace dude. it might not be as good as valves. but at least its osmething. shit i can't believe quake doesn't even have a bc2 autoblance, whish is just to keep team numbers even. your a fool vedic. you don't play any video games at all.

COD also has a team autoblanace just like BC2. FOOL!!! google that shit at least!!! how embarrasing is that, even fucking cod has one. god thats a shame that quake doesn't.

and TF2 is a VERY YES YOU IDIOT>>>> YOU UTTER MORON. god i love these forums i can say things like that when they are true. see above next to CSS. fool!


and if you want to know what hurt q3. it was valves autobalance. and popular CSS ladders on various levels.....hahahah all of us in college at the time made the instant exodus to counterstrike dude. and when cs 1.6 came out it was all over. shit i remember i got my first copy in a college dorm. a bootleg rip with the cd key written on it at stony brook university haha. everyone in the dorms literally used to play quake3. and now they played cs 1.6. and yes even though my frist copy was illegal and free. I actually bought counterstrike retail as well after that.

vedic will say anything to win an argument lol

I didn't stop playing quakelive vedic. are you mental? i said i play it everyday.

Did you forget the part where you said, quote:

most normal people like me and ray don't even post or play the game anymore.

Which time were you wrong?

and like i said all of those games at least have a team autoblanace. some have skill matching as well.

None of them have all of the features, and none of the individual features in any game are any better than QL.

css has the best autobalance going dude. its a mod made by the community years ago that valve adopted for all their games, like tf2. it balances players on teams througout the match based on scores.

No, it only does autoswitch if there is an uneven number of players - scores are how it decides on autoswitch, but it will not autoswitch you if you are one of the top scores.

LoL, close? are u insane? its an even stricter skill matching, cause it automatically chooses the server for you. so you can't go around hunting certain newbs on servers like u can with a server browser lmao. it automatcially matches up teams on servers automatically.

The skill matching isn't any good.

BC2, has a team autoblanace dude. it might not be as good as valves. but at least its osmething. shit i can't believe quake doesn't even have a bc2 autoblance, whish is just to keep team numbers even. your a fool vedic. you don't play any video games at all.

Valve autobalance ISN'T any good, and you're trying to argue that it isn't even as good as Valve. The closest thing Valve autobalance comes to "good" is when your team has won multiple times in a row, and it completely randomizes the teams based on score. While it was a good idea on paper, it leads to a balanced game maybe 1 in 10 times.

COD also has a team autoblanace just like BC2. FOOL!!! google that shit at least!!! how embarrasing is that, even fucking cod has one. god thats a shame that quake doesn't

Shitty autobalance is shitty, and Valve autobalance, while better, is still shitty.

and TF2 is a VERY YES YOU IDIOT>>>> YOU UTTER MORON. god i love these forums i can say things like that when they are true. see above next to CSS. fool!

No, TF2 autobalance is terrible. Hell, it WILL NOT autoswitch you if you are one of the top players. Autobalance will only take action if there is a PLAYER imbalance, it often will pick players with little time on the server, and never actually balances the game. The only balance that moderately works is the team scramble, and again, all it does is give you a flip of a coin to be on the new stacked team, while balanced teams are extremely rare.

I'm not saying that Q3 shouldn't have these features, but these features were not in old games that succeeded, don't exist in many games today, are shitty in the games that they ARE in, and have nothing to do with the actual failure of QL.

OWNED. once again, cooloutac, you have proven yourself to be a complete and utter idiot. complete fail

your so cute.

"Did you forget the part where you said, quote:

most normal people like me and ray don't even post or play the game anymore."

ya and i don't post on quakelive anymore and ray doesn't play. keyword being OR not AND. idiot. but that was not even my point, i was just humoring you there..... your in your own world trying very hard. but my point was, that me an ray are one of the few normal people who DO post and DO play. find your brain.


"None of them have all of the features, and none of the individual features in any game are any better than QL."

they have features to ensure fair play and competitive matches period. quaklive only has a broken tier system. and yes they are better then ql, especially proof is the fact they have 100s of thousands playing. and ID can't even regulate a couple hundred in ql. shit guys like celestial are almost singlehandedly bringing down their whole fucking game by themselves dude. thats what happens when there is no regulations or protections in place!!!! a game can't grow, noone will want to play with guys like celestial. this is what Riot understands what ID fails to grasp.

" No, it only does autoswitch if there is an uneven number of players - scores are how it decides on autoswitch, but it will not autoswitch you if you are one of the top scores."

autoswitch? dude its called auto team balancing. it switches players based on scores. tks for confirming. and ok so they don't switch the top scorer? fine that makes sense.



"The skill matching isn't any good."

well of course you have alts, understandable in a free game. but riot bans pretty quickly dude. i've already been banned for idling too much or quitting too many games. But i do notice usually the balanced the good players between teams. like if there is one guy going 15-0 on my team, there is usually one guy going 15-0 on the other team as well. Its pretty good their match system. I'm sure it will be even better when i get to higher lvls and less likely there are smurfs. but i mean the diff between quakelive, is i can't manipulate anything. so my team record is more comparable to others my lvl. unlike quake, when team stackers and tier slummers can manipulate their wins more easily.

I did pick beginner level when i stared... they had 4 levels to choose from. I guess u can call those tiers like in ql. but the diff is you are automatically placed on a server and on a team. You can't choose yourself. I have no control over it. just like noone else does. so its more fair just on that alone dude.


"Valve autobalance ISN'T any good, and you're trying to argue that it isn't even as good as Valve. The closest thing Valve autobalance comes to "good" is when your team has won multiple times in a row, and it completely randomizes the teams based on score. While it was a good idea on paper, it leads to a balanced game maybe 1 in 10 times."

BC2 only balances players to keep team numbers even. thats something ID should do with quake. sure it doesnt' go far enough, but something is better then absolutely nothing. and quitters and uneven team numbers in ql is a huge problem that could be helped by an autoblaance like bc2, which is very simple.

and valves autobalance is awsome. It goes the further then just autoswithcing to keep team numbers even like bc2 and COD. it balances the scores. it started in css. the term "stacked" came from counterstrike dude. only the term "owned" comes from ql haha. just going on that its not surprising css is more popular lmao. but man even tf2 is more popular then ql... thats some really sad shit.



"Shitty autobalance is shitty, and Valve autobalance, while better, is still shitty."

and shitty autobalance is better then no balance at all. your a real ignorant fool dude. please stop trying.


"No, TF2 autobalance is terrible. Hell, it WILL NOT autoswitch you if you are one of the top players. Autobalance will only take action if there is a PLAYER imbalance, it often will pick players with little time on the server, and never actually balances the game. The only balance that moderately works is the team scramble, and again, all it does is give you a flip of a coin to be on the new stacked team, while balanced teams are extremely rare."

its the same autoblance as the css mods. And yes it will not switch the top players. good. thers a reason for that. try to think about it. wow, what a fkn non gamer you are.

"I'm not saying that Q3 shouldn't have these features, but these features were not in old games that succeeded, don't exist in many games today, are shitty in the games that they ARE in, and have nothing to do with the actual failure of QL."

you are saying ql shouldn't have these features. you sound like that hypocrite lorfa. you guys are the same. trolling me against these measures and stating why they don't work. but oh no your not saying they shouldn't be in the game....lmao the game has been dead for many years dude. cs 1.6 totally destroyed quake. ql resurrected the game. many people started playing quake again. and why? the only diff was the advertistements for skill matching, easy to install and user friendly server browsers. and now that people know that was all a bullshit scam. they have moved on. this is not the past anymore. quake is the only game still living in it. this is the age of aquarius... where quake isn't the only multiplayer let alone fps in town.

Lorfa once tried to told me ql was more popular then q3 because of the friends list. hahaha makes me chuckled everytime.

but even their shitty tier system is better then nothing dude, and thats whats keeping quake alive you disgraced gamer. that is until the t5's eventually trickle down and slum even CA into a ghosttown. which is going ot happen eventually if ID doesn't pull the plug first or implement a stricter skill match system.

[b]but just to drive this into your brain. the reason most people are still playing quake is because of their broken tier system. IF ID took regulating fair play even more seriously and competitive matches more strict. there would be even more people playing. its fucking human nature. its called real life civilizations. most of you guys only act like barbarians cause your safe and anonymous behind your pc screen.[b]

but there really is no excuse for ID to go along with it. Shame on ID> shame on them.

ya and i don't post on quakelive anymore and ray doesn't play. keyword being OR not AND. idiot. but that was not even my point, i was just humoring you there..... your in your own world trying very hard. but my point was, that me an ray are one of the few normal people who DO post and DO play. find your brain.

Humoring me? My reply was in response to that, not beforehand.

they have features to ensure fair play and competitive matches period.

Except they don't - just different broken systems.

autoswitch? dude its called auto team balancing. it switches players based on scores. tks for confirming. and ok so they don't switch the top scorer? fine that makes sense.

It is only applied when there is a player imbalance, not skill balance. If the teams are equally filled, it will not autoswitch. When it does autoswitch, it seems to do so with no real reason. I've been autoswitched tons of times when I'm doing well, and I've been autoswitched to the winning team upon joining a server - only to become the top player soon after and never get autoswitched again.

I'm sure it will be even better when i get to higher lvls and less likely there are smurfs. but i mean the diff between quakelive, is i can't manipulate anything. so my team record is more comparable to others my lvl. unlike quake, when team stackers and tier slummers can manipulate their wins more easily.

You can slum just as easily by losing games - something that happens in almost every game.

and valves autobalance is awsome. It goes the further then just autoswithcing to keep team numbers even like bc2 and COD. it balances the scores. it started in css. the term "stacked" came from counterstrike dude. only the term "owned" comes from ql haha. just going on that its not surprising css is more popular lmao. but man even tf2 is more popular then ql... thats some really sad shit.

No, autoswitch mostly happens at random (minus top players), and the full on team shuffle only happens if you have won multiple times in a row without the other team winning once. Even a single win will stop a team scramble, and that's the ONLY time that it really uses score. Even so, balancing by score does not work - all it does is gives you a 50% chance of being on the new stacked team.

its the same autoblance as the css mods. And yes it will not switch the top players. good. thers a reason for that. try to think about it. wow, what a fkn non gamer you are.

I know the autobalance quite well, with over 1k hours logged. You don't seem to know it at all.

you are saying ql shouldn't have these features.

No, I most certainly did not. I said that these features are either not in other games, or are poorly implemented in other games - yet they still do fine. These are the kinds of features that you can discuss adding AFTER you have a game that people actually want to play.

You can slum just as easily by losing games - something that happens in almost every game

yet other games aren't as stat comprehensive/obsessive as quake live, where egos are born based on having epic win/loss , etc stats.

Most games keep track of your win/loss, and many games do keep track of stats. Quake 4 did not have any such system, it had exponentially more hype/players, and still died.

quake live was obsessively over the top statwise. if you saw the leaderboard in quakelive you'd know that.

No, it isn't/wasn't.

you're wrong

see wut i did thar

No.

yar

No.

the more stats the better RAY. trust me on that.

i don't believe stats are causing people to be dishonest.

the same guys were dicks in q3 too. where they had more freedom to be dicks. the only diff is in ql, they might get called out or banned, because stats just expose them that much more.

all games have stats now, and all sports popularity and money are based on them. literally.

well wallhacks can't be detected with stats and the only cheaters currently ruining games are using just that. I haven't seen an obvious cheater in a while now, so whatever idle anti-cheat program they have built in (they do have something as sync himself mentioned), seems to be working to stop the obvious accounts, the ones that stats would otherwise bust.

As it stands now, stats are only helping to stroke the egos of the slumming stackers in ctf especially.

So while i agree with you in regards to q3 being as bad, (definetely worse), the fact is, stats helped bring about many of the megalomaniacs we currently have ruining the new players gaming experience.

It's a double edged sword at this point.

People were slumming since the dawn of multiplayer gaming - stats have nothing to do with it.

yeah they slummed in mario brothers by using luigi instead of mario ....

idiot

Mario is not a multiplayer game, idiot.

lol wut? oh right, you took it literally... lol

idiot

You didn't mean it literally? So were you just being a retard?

Humoring me? My reply was in response to that, not beforehand.

me and ray are one of the few normal people in society who still post and play quake.



Except they don't - just different broken systems.
while nothing is 100%. they actually make an effort, unlike ql, and its better then ql. Its not obvious that those developers are letting people manipulate the system and cheat. and, imo, its why they are more popular then ql. I mean even if its not nearly as effective, with all the facades going in ql. You think they would at least pretend to care about fair play. which is a deterrent against cheating in itself.



It is only applied when there is a player imbalance, not skill balance. If the teams are equally filled, it will not autoswitch. When it does autoswitch, it seems to do so with no real reason. I've been autoswitched tons of times when I'm doing well, and I've been autoswitched to the winning team upon joining a server - only to become the top player soon after and never get autoswitched again.

in bc2 this is true. but valves autobalance, when i used play css on some good servers back in the days. of course always friendly fire on. and what i've heard from friends on the ql forum in tf2, is that they autoswitch based on scores. for example if one team is getting pwned severely. it balances based on SKILL/stats!!!. FKN SKILL BALANCE!!!! you are one full of shit non gamer dude.


You can slum just as easily by losing games - something that happens in almost every game.

how would u know. you obvioulsy don't even play any games. But in LoL for example. you will get banned very quickly. how many new ip addresses can u get? how many new accounts u gonna make. Are people really gonna try that hard? or will they just move onto some other game. millions are playing LoL. And thats because they make it publicly known, they will ban your ass... and they come through on that promise.


No, autoswitch mostly happens at random (minus top players), and the full on team shuffle only happens if you have won multiple times in a row without the other team winning once. Even a single win will stop a team scramble, and that's the ONLY time that it really uses score. Even so, balancing by score does not work - all it does is gives you a 50% chance of being on the new stacked team.

wow sounds complicated. wish we had that in ql. sounds good to me man. although u don't play games so who knows if you evebn know wtf your talking about.

i haven't played tf2. but i have played css for almost as long as i have played quake. and I gotta say what in the fk are you talking about. scramble? multiple wins in a row? hahaha and you keep mentioning it doesnt' change the top players, as if its thats a problem...lmao.

i mean they deserve to get the win if they the top player on that team they shouldn't be switched. I don't really remember them not being switched, but it makes sense if its true. think about it. fk dude whats wrong with you.

I know the autobalance quite well, with over 1k hours logged. You don't seem to know it at all.[i/]

1000 hours logge in what game!?!? did you really give up quake for tf2 dude? seriously? hahahah are we supposed to still take u seriously?



[i]No, I most certainly did not. I said that these features are either not in other games, or are poorly implemented in other games - yet they still do fine. These are the kinds of features that you can discuss adding AFTER you have a game that people actually want to play.

you really sound like lorfa here dude. your talking shit, trolling me because i'm for these features in quakelive. Your saying these features are ineffective. But now you want us to believe your not against any of these features? your fake just like lorfa dude.

what a politician. and your typical of this community. Your not against fair play or competitive matches. Just against any measure or regulation that other games have to l help promote them.

gotcha.... fakester. phony pos. you and lorfa and syncerror types killed this game. and i wish i could find you guys in real life. and show you how in real life there are consequences to your malicious actions. and that you can't hide behind your pc screen spreading lies under anonymous names, without regretting it.

me and ray are one of the few normal people in society who still post and play quake.

"Normal"? You're looked down upon by the Quake community, and you're banned. That's not normal.

while nothing is 100%. they actually make an effort, unlike ql, and its better then ql. Its not obvious that those developers are letting people manipulate the system and cheat. and, imo, its why they are more popular then ql. I mean even if its not nearly as effective, with all the facades going in ql. You think they would at least pretend to care about fair play. which is a deterrent against cheating in itself.

People manipulate the system and cheat in EVERY game.

in bc2 this is true. but valves autobalance, when i used play css on some good servers back in the days. of course always friendly fire on. and what i've heard from friends on the ql forum in tf2, is that they autoswitch based on scores. for example if one team is getting pwned severely. it balances based on SKILL/stats!!!. FKN SKILL BALANCE!!!! you are one full of shit non gamer dude.

Now you admit that you don't even know how TF2 works, and you're just going by third party information that is most certainly wrong. It ONLY balances when one team wins 2 rounds (multiple part maps count 2 FULL wins of all maps, so generally never hits the autobalance before the map time runs out). The only thing it will do at that point is shuffle the teams entirely, which will end up as stacked as it was before almost every time. The only time it will ever move a player is if there is an uneven number of players, and it will often pick players that have no business being switched. Go play the game, instead of reading about it on a forum.

how would u know. you obvioulsy don't even play any games. But in LoL for example. you will get banned very quickly. how many new ip addresses can u get? how many new accounts u gonna make. Are people really gonna try that hard? or will they just move onto some other game. millions are playing LoL. And thats because they make it publicly known, they will ban your ass... and they come through on that promise.

I had to explain to you how multiple of the systems you are trying to defend even work - you don't play anything other than Quake, and it seems that you don't even play Quake that much.

wow sounds complicated. wish we had that in ql. sounds good to me man. although u don't play games so who knows if you evebn know wtf your talking about.

It's not complicated, it's not any good, and it's not the reason that people play the game.

i haven't played tf2. but i have played css for almost as long as i have played quake. and I gotta say what in the fk are you talking about. scramble? multiple wins in a row? hahaha and you keep mentioning it doesnt' change the top players, as if its thats a problem...lmao.

You were talking about the TF2 system, and not moving the top players is a huge problem, since you can team stack and rush to the top to avoid an autobalance if there are an uneven number of players.

i mean they deserve to get the win if they the top player on that team they shouldn't be switched. I don't really remember them not being switched, but it makes sense if its true. think about it. fk dude whats wrong with you.

The top players get switched during the scramble, so they WILL get switched after 2 wins.

1000 hours logge in what game!?!? did you really give up quake for tf2 dude? seriously? hahahah are we supposed to still take u seriously?

I gave up Quake for many games, but TF2 is lightyears more fun, and more popular.

you really sound like lorfa here dude. your talking shit, trolling me because i'm for these features in quakelive. Your saying these features are ineffective. But now you want us to believe your not against any of these features? your fake just like lorfa dude.

I'm not against the features - I'm against your crusade that you think these features are the only thing holding the game back. People simply don't like Quake Live because it's a shit game, and no features will ever save it. You are fighting the wrong battles, and you aren't even fighting them in the right place.

what a politician. and your typical of this community. Your not against fair play or competitive matches. Just against any measure or regulation that other games have to l help promote them.

Other games systems have plenty of flaws, still have slumming, still have cheating, and in some ways, can be worse. I don't think that QL doesn't need many of these features, but I don't think it matters if it has the features at all.

gotcha.... fakester. phony pos. you and lorfa and syncerror types killed this game. and i wish i could find you guys in real life. and show you how in real life there are consequences to your malicious actions. and that you can't hide behind your pc screen spreading lies under anonymous names, without regretting it.

You're the phony - you don't even understand Quake well enough to be discussing it, and you're trying to compare it to other games that you don't understand or play. Your threats of physical violence are amusing, as they show a genuine frustration with the truth. Don't get mad, get informed.

"Normal"? You're looked down upon by the Quake community, and you're banned. That's not normal.

the quake community is looked down upon by every other gaming community and by society as a whole. and i'm not banned, i still play it, still have alot of people on my friends list. and still have many, i'd say the majority of players on servers, people say hi and act friendly towards me in game.



People manipulate the system and cheat in EVERY game.

and so whats your point lorfa? do nothing? settle? accept it which is almost condoning it? no.... this is why this community is the least respected in gaming.


Now you admit that you don't even know how TF2 works, and you're just going by third party information that is most certainly wrong. It ONLY balances when one team wins 2 rounds (multiple part maps count 2 FULL wins of all maps, so generally never hits the autobalance before the map time runs out). The only thing it will do at that point is shuffle the teams entirely, which will end up as stacked as it was before almost every time. The only time it will ever move a player is if there is an uneven number of players, and it will often pick players that have no business being switched. Go play the game, instead of reading about it on a forum.

I know how the autoblanace worked in css. I'm told its the same one. and ya i'd rather go with other non biased 3rd party forum posters, then some troll against fair play like yourself. Who has already been exposed on this very forum for not even really gaming, especially on quakelive.

I had to explain to you how multiple of the systems you are trying to defend even work - you don't play anything other than Quake, and it seems that you don't even play Quake that much.

unlike you i actually play these games, all of them except tf2. your fake homey. purely bogus. i play everyday in quakelive. check my match history. i play bc2 and LoL everyday. check my mach histories, check my account name, which is always the same as on this forum. you on the other hand are fake.


It's not complicated, it's not any good, and it's not the reason that people play the game.

while u might believe in cooncidences. I don't.




You were talking about the TF2 system, and not moving the top players is a huge problem, since you can team stack and rush to the top to avoid an autobalance if there are an uneven number of players.

you were saying thats what happens. And i was saying if so, whats the problem with that?

team stack and rush to the top? hahaha do u see how ludicrous that sounds? If your good enough to "rush to the top" to avoid being switched to the losing team..... you prolly should stop playing on newb servers hahaha. slum lord.



The top players get switched during the scramble, so they WILL get switched after 2 wins.

again makes perfect sense. the developers def though it out and its very reasonable. whats the problem. either you can team stack like u said in previous statement, or you can't. make up your mind dude..... why are pos like you so selfish and against fair play. what u describe sounds fucking great dude. seriously whats wrong with you? what is wrong with you. you have no sense of fair play at all man. Keep petitioning against all these features. this is excaclty why people play those games. whether they work perfect or not is not the issue.


I gave up Quake for many games, but TF2 is lightyears more fun, and more popular.

there you go again. a dmitting u hate quake and don't even fkn play it. get lost dude. just get lost your so bogus, bs seeps through your skin.


I'm not against the features - I'm against your crusade that you think these features are the only thing holding the game back. People simply don't like Quake Live because it's a shit game, and no features will ever save it. You are fighting the wrong battles, and you aren't even fighting them in the right place.

your a hypocrite. purely hyprocritical. are you sure your not lorfa dude? besides learning how to program your cfg, the game has nothing but cheaters and assholes noone wants to play with. thats whats really holding it back. this community.

Other games systems have plenty of flaws, still have slumming, still have cheating, and in some ways, can be worse. I don't think that QL doesn't need many of these features, but I don't think it matters if it has the features at all.

they are not nearly as worse for the simply fact they have way more of a playerbase......but the point is they regulate enough so the degenerates don't cause the whole game to shut down the whole game, which is why those games grow to that size playerbase. People dont' feel like the assholes are in control and are taking over, and that the developers are letting them and encouraging it. People aren't leaving those games in mass exodus. which is exactly what they would do if slumming and cheating were the dominate force like they are in quakelive. ID doesn't even pretend to care. which is a deterrent in iitself. Shit thats why there was a mass exodus in quakelive after beta.

why are you guys still in such denial, that fair play and competitive matches are all that matters. they take priority over gameplay and graphics. this should be obvious to pc gamers nowadays.


You're the phony - you don't even understand Quake well enough to be discussing it, and you're trying to compare it to other games that you don't understand or play. Your threats of physical violence are amusing, as they show a genuine frustration with the truth. Don't get mad, get informed.

i'm the phony? you just said in the paragraph above.... you gave up playing quake, and would prefer to play tf2. as crazy as that shit is, it means your bogus and phony, for even talking about quakelive. just being oon this forum makes you fake.

how many other account names do you have? lmao...

the quake community is looked down upon by every other gaming community and by society as a whole. and i'm not banned, i still play it, still have alot of people on my friends list. and still have many people say hi and act friendly towards me in game.

Other gaming communities are just as bad, if not worse. Society looks down on gaming as a whole. You're banned from the forums, which shows that your opinion isn't wanted.

and so whats your point lorfa? do nothing? settle? accept it which is almost condoning it? no.... this is why this community is the least respected in gaming.

No, my point is that the problem with QL is not the cheating and slumming - every game has this problem, yet every game isn't falling apart.

I know how the autoblanace worked in css. I'm told its the same one. and ya i'd rather go with other non biased 3rd party forum posters, then some troll against fair play like yourself. Who has already been exposed on this very forum for not even really gaming, especially on quakelive.

Or you could just play it and learn for yourself, but that would actually require you to play, wouldn't it?

unlike you i actually play these games, all of them except tf2. your fake homey. purely bogus. i play everyday in quakelive. check my match history. i play bc2 and LoL everyday. check my mach histories, check my account name, which is always the same as on this forum. you on the other hand are fake.

I'm sure you do, which is why you constantly keep making mistakes about every game.

team stack and rush to the top? hahaha do u see how ludicrous that sounds? If your good enough to "rush to the top" to avoid being switched to the losing team..... you prolly should stop playing on newb servers hahaha. slum lord.

If I join a server on TF2 and I see which team has the best players, I can purposely join the stacked team (even if there are too many players on that team), rush to the top of the scoreboard, and let some poor newb get autobalance instead.

again makes perfect sense. the developers def though it out and its very reasonable. whats the problem. why are pos like you so selfish and against fair play. what u describe sounds fucking great dude. seriously whats wrong with you? what is wrong with you. you have no sense of fair play at all man. Keep petitioning against all these features. this is excaclty why people play those games. whether they work perfect or not is not the issue.

Because it DOES NOT WORK. Everyone gets scrambled, and the teams just end up as stacked as they were before, but with a 50% chance that it's the other team that is now stacked.

there you go again. a dmitting u hate quake and don't even fkn play it. get lost dude. just get lost your so bogus, bs seeps through your skin.

I don't play it anymore, and I have been quite clear about it. I have, however, played Q3 for longer than you have been gaming.

but the point is the regulate enough so its not so bad it shuts down the whole game. People aren't leaving those games in mass exodus. which is exactly what they do if slumming and cheating were the dominate force like they are in quakelive. Shit ID doesn't even pretend to care. which is a deterrent in iitself.

It isn't shutting down the game, as it doesn't shut down any other game. Every game has cheating, slumming, and shitty community members. Every. Single. One. Quake fails because nobody wants to play it, not because it has the same problems as every other game.

i'm the phony? you just said in the paragraph above.... you gave up playing quake, and would prefer to play tf2. as crazy as that shit is, it means your bogus and phony, for even talking about quakelive. just being oon this forum makes you fake.

Yes, TF2 is a better game than Quake. You admit that you haven't even played it, so maybe you should avoid looking any more foolish.

Other gaming communities are just as bad, if not worse.

stop saying that, it's just not true. I've given you numerous examples of that. modding communities in wc3, pirates of the burning sea, etc. the quake community is by far the worst i've seen and nothing even comes close to that.

You give examples of small, or unpopular, communities. It is true of every successful game on the market.

Maybe I misread your post but it seemed to be implying that league of legends has anything but the scum of the earth playing it. These are seriously the worst people on the planet and probably the dumbest people capable of maintaining a rhythmic heartbeat

The system they have in place to stop these people is terrible. They keep banning me JUST because I say nigger every single game... is it my fault that they're all niggers who can't shut the fuck up?

i can tell ur trolling. once u go league of legends ur not gonna stop dude.

and sure u get ur common trols in every game. but we talking millions dude. and most of the players are very honorable.

i'm like one of the biggest pos in a game sometimes because i want to surrender all the time when i'm getting owned and I know we have no chance.


and most of these LoL players actually refuse and would rather go out with honor. true story. it drives me nuts cause the matches are so damn long.

and of course they can't stop everyone one from being dishonorable,
but just having measures like that is a deterrent for some alone, and those it does stops makes it worth it.

i mean if you promote fair play and competitive matches. More people would follow that. If you condone team stacking and slumming, well thats gonna become part of the game. simple common sense. I keep saying either ID never really cared about any of this shit, or someone seriously needs to be fired.

and yet you are allowed to say the n word till your heats content in ql. i know dude. the fact your allowed to exist in ql, and not in LoL.

is something ID should think about.

I very rarely feel the urge to call somebody a nigger when playing a quake game

sadly, the game could have failed during the countdown process when the website crashed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWbdRPkCle4

I still play QL because it allows me to express my personality in an artistic way. Watch the pros play and look beyond them jumping from A to B. For me quake is a niche game and always will be - it has nothing to how the game looks like, it is what underneath what has kept me interested.

random.

Other gaming communities are just as bad, if not worse. Society looks down on gaming as a whole. You're banned from the forums, which shows that your opinion isn't wanted.

most other gaming communities have more mature and sportsmanlike players. and i'm not banned from the forums anymore. i posted there today. and yes i play quakelive everyday and have no problems in-game. and have a big friends list of guys my level.

No, my point is that the problem with QL is not the cheating and slumming - every game has this problem, yet every game isn't falling apart.

only quake has develoeprs who caters to cheaters and slummer and let them totally take over the game. pretty soon all those cheaters and slummers will have the source code from john carmack as well. They are not the majority of the playerbase. those other gamesthat have millions of players. those other games are not overurn by cheaters and slummers dude. Those developers at least let you know they are trying to stop cheating, not encouraging it by their own game design. you can't even compare them. out of the 300 people that play quakelive. 100 of them purposely stack slum or cheat dude with id's arpproval. quake has never had any real good admins in RA3. and ID themselves are even worse.


Or you could just play it and learn for yourself, but that would actually require you to play, wouldn't it?

what u described sounds great and even better then css. I dont' see a problem with it. I can see now why that corny as crappy graphics game with crappy physics and barely any play control is one of the most popular fps's games on the pc now. after what you described for us all, we can all see why. Thanks for confirming for me everything i've said. if only quake had the same system.


I'm sure you do, which is why you constantly keep making mistakes about every game.

i'm cooloutac in every game. look me up homeskillet. i'm the real deal.



If I join a server on TF2 and I see which team has the best players, I can purposely join the stacked team (even if there are too many players on that team), rush to the top of the scoreboard, and let some poor newb get autobalance instead.

"rush to the top"??? implying like your the best guy on the server to begin with dude? thats a little ridiculous. I'm sure theres alot of newbs that play tf2. But i bet they don't have as many assholes doing that like they do in quakelive lmao. and if ur good enough to join a team and "rush to the top" so easily, i bet you would be less inclined to try and team stack. I mean u don't have to. you can just "rush to the top" of the scoreboard anyways.... this just sounds silly dude. "rush to the top" lmao. if ur good ur good. and if u can rush to the top, you wouldn't have to stack teams in the first place.

and like u said after 2 wins they get scrambled anyways...


Because it DOES NOT WORK. Everyone gets scrambled, and the teams just end up as stacked as they were before, but with a 50% chance that it's the other team that is now stacked.

once again contradicting your previous statement. either you can stack teams in tf2 or you can't. a team being stacked is ok as long as it wasn't manipulated by the players themselves dude. again... wtf is wrong with you...please stop.

and if its a 50% chance they will scramble teams so the other team doesn't dominate for an hour....thats great. wtf is the problem!?!? I WISH WE HAD THIS SHIT IN QUAKELIVE YOU TOOL!!!


I don't play it anymore, and I have been quite clear about it. I have, however, played Q3 for longer than you have been gaming.

i'm 32 yrs old. and i've been gaming since before q1 on lans dude. try again.


It isn't shutting down the game, as it doesn't shut down any other game. Every game has cheating, slumming, and shitty community members. Every. Single. One. Quake fails because nobody wants to play it, not because it has the same problems as every other game.

john carmack, lorfa and you should get together. you can talk about how the game itself is just a turn off. and how the community itself has nothing to do with ql's failure. sure every game has those. but not every game lets cheating and slumming and shitty community members overun the game and become the dominate force!!!! those other games have millions of people. so if you run into a couple assholes everyday. there is 50 more who are cool!!! and you can feel more comfortable knowing the developer is doing everything in his power to get rid of those assholes. really dude. wake the fuck up, please...


Yes, TF2 is a better game than Quake. You admit that you haven't even played it, so maybe you should avoid looking any more foolish.

hahahaha, explain to us why tf2 is better then quake.......... i'd love to hear this....

The only problem with QL is that
1. it's free
2. the netcode favors ping 80 (in 2011!)
3. the site goes down regularly as clockwork
4. noobs play 5 games and then run home to cs, leaving only pros frustrated that the netcode decides the outcome (no, really!)

Otherwise it's fine, bigfatlol.

Like I'm going to pay cent 1 for this shit.

The only problem with QL

stopped reading right there. I do agree with point 3 & 4 though. Can't say ping 80 is favored regardless of the supposed theory that 0-60 is al the same. There's a reason incubus can go 100-1 (his 6-10 ping) . It's been rumored that he runs the texas server, hence his uber low ping.

The site doesn't go down too much but when it's down it's usually on a saturday and sometimes doens't get fixed till monday (since the 3 devs dont' work in qeekends normally, leaving the game completely unsupervised). As far as noobs running home to cs and pros being bothered by it; they're not. That's how the vets would want it and that's the game they've gotten.

nice bump btw

in beta the guys that ran the tx servers always had 5 ping.

ya u dont' see them playing along with anyone else anymore...


the site has gone down a couple times a day for me the past few days actually.....


actually right now the forums are having a database error. i'm banned anyways though....

I'm not a cheater... so i'm not accepted in ql.....

you should get cheats like the rest of the cool kids. Then you'll fit in yeah?

hahaha i'd plus this comment if i had an account here, btw you know the dirty little secret of kevin baeza?