not nearly as immoral behaviour as being a 16 pinger claiming that 42 ping is better

:D:D

I get that shit all the time..

always some weirdos on irc theorizing about how they are getting screwed over by 70+ pingers and they have to deal with their horrid 20 ping.

man it must be nice to have a ping so low you can even complain about it

^ This

the complaint is actually about QL's weird netcode that favors a higher ping in some situations. low ping is great, nothing to complain about as such

I'm aware of the netcode issues. It's just funny to me because the lowest I ping anywhere is 45 in QL. That's to TX, which feels like shit regardless.

It's already "implemented", because I still having this:p

if you switch servers you automatically can alter your ping "naturally" hence I would not say this is an unfair advantage. However, third party programs that add extra latency should not be encouraged.

Surely, it would be nice if you could force a ping of 50 ms on every server that you connect to but I doubt that leagues and players in general would encourage such behaviour.

It is quite an odd discussion because you merely exploit a game-related issue or even bug, if you will. But you do it with an extra program and that's why you should not do it.

Also note that ping 16 is advantageous with plasmagun & rockets or projectile weapons in general. It really comes down to how you play, or what map you play. DM13 is projectile heavy while maps like aerowalk aren't necessarily.

It would be nice to try a program out like this to force players into having equal pings on servers in a tournament environment.

Its only cheating if they are warping to people trying to shoot them.

adding extra latency is not an advantage otherwise and sounds ridiculous to imply so....lmao.

trying to improve your ping is also not cheating... and also ridiculous to imply so...

alt account of weird?

I don't do fake accounts.
Don't have one on esr, and I don't have one on ql.

Besides if I could (aka was lame enough to) it is easily possible to hit a button in order to toggle your ping between 2 values. 1 for instant hit weapons (= high ping) and 1 for projectiles (= low ping...).

But the real danger is in just running scripts that make you warp like mad (especially things that fuck up your upload for a few ms every sec), seeing how that doesn't really have many negative effects on how you precieve the game.

set +visje "com_maxfps 30"
set -visje "com_maxfps 125"
bind x +visje

how is higher ping = better? anything above 40ms is unplayable for me

To take advantage of the anti-lag mainly.

yes with ql's antilag someone who has 10% lg will get a boost up to 40%, happens every day.

i thought everything was unplayable for u :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDdddddddddddddddddddddddd

shhhhhhhhh

Quakelive is a failbus mostly

since when and why is higher ping ever better, explain rationally please.

Can't explain rationally, but shaft & rail with ping 40 is just easier (for me) than with ping ~20.
I'm not an alt of weird, but i agree with him in some points regarding the ql netcode.

then do what u have to do. U have my blessing :)

I much prefer to play vs 40 ping than vs below 20. I wish all low pingers had chosen to go for higher.

alternatively u can play on servers u have higher.

If that's any consolation, you warp like hell for me when you have 15 ping and lg battles are impossible as a result because you hit 50% and i hit 20.

it's not that he is warping, it's just that you're trying to point n click with shaft :p

Couldn't you just try cl_timenudge 20? To add 20 ping?

positive timenudge has been disabled in quake live.

Isn't timenudge clientside and does nothing to the packets you send to the server? Hence cl_ CLient_...

yep, this was known quite widespread in q3.

dunno why ppl think this now as nudge works the same way in ql as well.

people were wrong in q3 as well.
But it only matters when the server looks at the time sent with the packets. Which (prolly) was the case only in cpma. And is also the case in ql.

I've written enough posts about this so that people should know how it works.... just scroll down or smth.

again, I disagree. Thanks to the players /players command in cpma I have played against a wide variety of ppl using tn and it never made any difference for me what they used when it came to hitting them.

ah but that is due to arQon doing 2 different kinds of prediction.
If you put off your xerp-clients it'll matter again (I think) but arqon never released the cpma code so I cannot be 100pc sure... but let's say that I'm 99pc sure ;)

but then comes in ql tn and again it never matters much for me how i hit even with different tn values.

Ah but in QL timenudge actually does heavily affect the server (for instant hit). Because the server looks back to the time in your packet (which with tn is higher than without).
So you can 'kill the lookback code' by setting up timenudge.

Result: on tn -20 your shots will be drawn 20ms more accurate on your enemies screen.

How and why is explained below...

eh I'll not believe it from any explanation from this thread. tn remains client side for me.

I completely agree with you, my shaft and rail are way more consistent and tend to be higher accs on 35-40 ping than when i play with 15-20 ping. Only thing I like about low ping is rockets are awesome, and they are probably my best wep

The only way higher = better is when you're so used to higher latency that when it drops down your aim gets fucked (you overcompensate for latency that isn't there). I'm not at all convinced it is a netcode issue as much as a placebo effect people get overdramatic about.

cl_timenudge <0/20> ? gives 0 to 20 ping if u put a positive value i guess :|

No.

ah right max value is 0, nvm me :DD

Anyway, /cl_timenudge isn't net command so it won't affect ping.

timenudge used to pad ping locally. For some reason positive values were disabled.

timenude padded nothing in vq3, it reduced the the size of the interpolation buffer.

I have no idea what's it good for in QL because I notice nothing.

One more advantage of increasing ping on servers near to you, is that you can play on a variety of eu servers with exactly the same ping.

thats actually some reason

I don't get it why anyone wants to alter his own ping to the worse and spoil his own game. The game feels just so much better with a low ping especially with rocket and plasma. Who the fuck cares if someone has an advantage over you with highping it's not like you're going to win the next zotac ...

I do agree tho that some highpingers aren't hitable for some reason even tho their dodging is not above average. The funny thing is those guys still hit 35+ lg on you.

http://qlranks.com/duel/player/Bunnye

Warps, lg only and you can't hit shit.

Just avoid players like that and play vs lowping only. Win - Win

I would, but that would sum up in me beeing able to play five duels / week or smth. vs. at least semi decent players.

Allow me to introduce you to, the Laggsta: http://laggsta.com/

the final progression of cheating newbieism laggsta.
if autoaim autoshoot and autododge still doesnt help, go autolagg.

I guess that explains this....

lol @ 0:06 - 0:08





insane

tc qdisc add dev eth0 root netem delay 25ms

does a decent job for free :o

1) you can't seem to hit some high pingers because hitscan won't register properly
2) they are half invisible and unreadable on movement alone because of constant mini warp.
3) that's my personal nightmare, highpinger actually seems to get a small time advantage around corners. Both with rail, both come around corner, before I can even see an enemy I die. every time. wut? (no cheating because normal accuracies)

Especially evident in tdm games where you can compare hitability of different enemies (let aside dodging, I'm not talking about the situation where the enemy sees me and dodges)

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2191579

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIsFWld9Xsw

This debate is going on since forever and this is a huge load of crap, having a higher ping doesn't give you any advantage whatsoever. Not gonna argue as I'm getting sick of those 20pingers saying they are at disadvantage.
Anyone with a ping of 40-50 would gladly trade it against a ping of 20 any fucking day.

"....Not gonna argue as I'm getting sick...."

So you just add this to the conversation because of what? To reasure the others about your superioirty or about your migthy existence? You getting sick of people like me because of a fucking bug in a buggy crapy code? Well nothing new here from your side "whatsoever":(

With 25ms ping, I have to aim 3-4 keels behind keel if I want to hit something. With 45ms ping, I "only" have to aim ~2 keels behind keel. Both is fucking hard, or nearly impossible against skilled players, but still, I prefer the later because it's an acceptable tradeoff for me (not like 60-70ms where latency wins), and indeed I consistently hitting more on FR and UK servers than on DE ones.

I understand if that's hurting you of course. I understand your kind very well tbh. When you can't hurt someone who is not your friend, you just getting sick because of your pro ego, don't you?

with 20 ping i aim at the model and i hit fine
with 50 ping i keep aiming at the model and i still hit fine, just a bit less

i must be doing something wrong obviously

I'm happy for you:)

"With 25ms ping, I have to aim 3-4 keels behind keel if I want to hit something."
Prove it.
You can use dxtory to record your screen cuz it almost completly doesn't hit performane/cause lag.

like here: http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php...post194558

"With 25ms ping, I have to aim 3-4 keels behind keel if I want to hit something. With 45ms ping, I "only" have to aim ~2 keels behind keel."

what the fuck.

the fuck?

only logical answer I can come up with is: throw your cfg in an incinerator, that sort of stuff doesnt happen to normal players.

I have 3 different PCs mate and I changed the inside of those many times. I had 3 different modems with 2 different routers in the last 3 years, and reinstalled the OS several times (linux, winxp, win7). I always had this problem since around closed beta

I reseted my CFG on a weekly basis for months, but I gave up on the game so long that I don't really mind anymore, I only play for fun, so I just invert mouse, add picmip 10 and set binds + Fox's hud and set maxpackets to 125. I change nothing else.

I'm not stating it's like that for everybody but it is this for me. It's not my hobby to make up stories like this, I don't like it, and I would be happy to get rid of it of course.

edit: I think it has to do something with the QL netcode and fact that bloated cable connections (in some areas) are getting insanely delayed upstreams, even if the bandwith is stable 100/10mbit.

really weird then, i assure you ppl just aim at the model though, nothing like this aiming behind hitboxes.

I know, I don't have this in any other game (perhaps I little bit in CPMA, but not this much), It was frustrating in the first few months/first year indeed, but I'm ok now, this is how it is, I can accept and adept.. it's useless to blame the game because I suck anyway, it's just ruins the fun sometimes;)

I think it has to do something with the QL netcode and fact that bloated cable connections (in some areas) are getting insanely delayed upstreams, even if the bandwith is stable 100/10mbit.

How is the routing to QL servers being shit in your area a failing of the netcode?

I didn't even mention routing, did I?

Nope, but it's most definitely why your QL experience is so shitty, yet, you are blaming it on netcode.

I have a perfect route to QL servers, I ping 24-27ms in Germany with only 6 hops (including my modem and the server). It's the very best possible route what's exist in the EU with less than 2% jitter most of the times. It definitely, absolutely and obviously has nothing to do with the problems I experience.

And -FYI - QL is not shitty to me, I love the game, I'm playing it since the first wave of the closed beta, and I'm a pro subscriber ofc.

lol

Well, I'm happy to see that I was able to lighten up your sickening feeling a little bit. Again, your response, which is nothing else but an attempt to get virtual points on the internet (aka [+] whoring) and an attempt to offend again, is simply childish.

Score whatever you need to score, but it's not the argument of this thread what is a "huge load of crap", but your statement is.. imho.

Yep, it was the very goal of my first post to offend, obviously you know that since you know "my kind very well" right ?

simply childish

While resorting to personal attacks is very mature.

I understand if that's hurting you of course

Yep I'm definitely the one who's hurt, I mean I've made a 50 lines long argument about how wrong you were because I was butthurt very hard.
I couldn't care less about getting plusses, I just said what I think something you instantly categorized as :

To reasure the others about your superioirty or about your migthy existence

What the fuck? get help.

Also, talking about ego when you said my statement was a huge load of crap because it somehow doesn't apply to you.

I strongly suggest you to think again.

Most of the time I read something from you is about who or what do you hate, who is slow in the brain or stupid, or who you are sick of... I admit that perhaps I was a bit subjectively overreacting, but I also still hold my opinion even after rethinking.

I suggest to take a look at my comments history then.

I knew this was either of the two tbh :
- You dislike me in the first place which is something I can understand.
- You are a moron something I know not to be true after reading a lot of your posts in the hardware forum.

At least we know where this is coming from.
What's the opinion again? That my first post is wrong?

Are those different than this one?:

".....this is a huge load of crap, having a higher ping doesn't give you any advantage whatsoever. Not gonna argue as I'm getting sick of those 20pingers saying they are at disadvantage"

You single handedly decided who is wrong and who is right, who is talking shit and how things are working out for others on a global scale..
there is nothing here to argue about , amirite?

You single handedly decided who is wrong and who is right

I'm stating a fact, nothing more. I'm sorry but the fact that it doesn't apply to you because of a terrible connection or anything else doesn't make it any less true.

http://ra.is/unlagged/faq.html#DUGHPTA

It's not a fact, and stating that I'm the exception won't turn it into a fact either.

That's why I didn't want to argue in the first place, there is no way we'r gonna agree on this so I'm giving up.

Cheers, hope you'r gonna be able to fix the problems you are having with the netcode.

Thanks,

I'm sorry if I was behaving like an asshole.. terrible day:S

Didn't take any offense, that happens and I'm not exactly the most lovable person so.. :)

indeed, i hate ur geeky nerdy face

You guys are fucking gentlemen and I respect the shit out of you

I know, right?

he wasn't even speaking about u man... wth?

the guys that he speaks of, have good aim and they certainly don’t aim 3 keels below the enemy model

ur connection is fucked up and I bet most ppl here didn't even know you have low ping. I didn't.

I understand, but -according to him - I'm talking "crap" when I say that playing QL with higher ping works out better for me (and for many others as well btw), which is not only offensive, but also a statement based only on his experience.

Now it's getting ridiculous..

but -according to him - I'm talking "crap" when I say that playing QL with higher ping works out better for me (and for many others as well btw)

This is just stupid, you perfectly know I said that in a general way and not to you personally and I doubt very much there are "many others" who prefer 50ms over 15.

I'm sorry but the fact that it doesn't apply to you because of a terrible connection or anything else doesn't make it any less true.

I don’t remember anything like that
any references?

ur attack seems personal and uncalled for

maybe this thing that happens to ur connection made u very sensitive to such issues??...

HA

plussed for truth

fuck yes.

Couldn't agree more. I've gone from 55-60ms down to ~20ms, and I don't ever want to go back. The game is so much better.

GIT! :)

I'll explain 1 more time how high ping is an advantage for instant hit weapons for all ppl above.

Let player A be the 'attacking player with lg' and player B takes a fight with him (for whatever reason).

If both players have ping 0 then obviously the moment that player A hits fire then within 0 to 25ms (due to 40 sv_fps) + 0 to 8ms (due to rendering at 125fps) this lg will show up on player B's screen at the place where player A shot at.
The shot will 'be registered' on the server as if it was shot on ping 0 (accurate) and thus player B's screen will be off by 0-33ms (which is barely noticable especially because it'll fluctuate between 0 and 33) so on average it's 16.5ms.

What happens when player A pings 60? (B still on 0)
The moment A hits fire then the shot will reach the server 30ms after. The server then recalculates to shot where B was 30ms before. Then the same story applies as above only with an added 30ms. Now B's screen will be off by 30-63ms where on average it'll be 46. Let me re-iterate that for player A it still seems as though he's lg'ing on ping 0. But all of a sudden player B (who didn't change anything) has to dodge 46ms earlier.

Also because player A's screen is extrapolated he will actually see you 30ms before you see him. (given that you do not exit a teleporter or are in a room that he enters to fast that another part of the 'netcode' fucks up (to which I also submitted a solution but w/e).

If we give B a ping as well then obviously half of that must be added as well. So if player B has a ping of 30 and plays vs someone on ping 60... he'll have to 'dodge lg as if B is on ping 60'.


Why isn't this 'such a big problem for high ping players'? Simply because they don't have to alter their game. HBP's almost always play ppl who ping between 20 and 40 which for them only is a difference of 10ms. Which then isn't noticable.

How did this effect the game?
ALL 'good players' who have mid - high ping (read 45 - 80) will only get into lg fights in which they can hit the first lg and then they will +forward. Just look at how many retarded attacks russians put in on zotac cups where they just rush in with lg. Their whole game is based around your inability to see where they are aiming (and if they are hitting you or not).

Why is spec mode fucked?
Spec mode shows the game from server pov (which in osp meant that spec mode always seemed like lan).
But in ql all instant hit weapons 'register a hit before the server recieved the data'. So you in spec will see shots hit behind players all the time. How far behind is based upon the pings of the players.

btw you can test this and see this for yourself easy if you get onto a server where you ping low, and you have 2 opponents 1 with low ping 1 with high ping... and you let them take turns at fireing lg at you while you move in a straight line.
(If the guy on low ping also uses timenudge the difference will become even larger)

What if -theoretically- I'm a brazilian that pings 60-70 to southamerican servers and I want to abuse the system as much as possible.

- Should I use timenudge -20 or other value?

- Which are the currently allowed values? (can't play QL from here)

- Do you recommend using timenudge with these ping ranges:10-20, 20-30, 30-40, 40-50, 50-60, 60-70, 70 and over?

- Would you change the value based on your ping?

- What about RL, overall movement and LG dodging? It's a lot more difficult to use with more lag, and personally I don't like how the game feels when playing with timenudge on.

-Which do you think is the "best" ping range to play online, considering all weapons, timenudge and all other factors?

- Would your opinion change based on the opponent's ping with the said ping ranges? This matters a lot in team based modes since everyone has different pings, so maybe your desired lag and net settings (including timenudge) could differ.

- Will using timenudge make the game feel more responsive or it just serves for abusing QL netcode?

- Do you know if any of the "pros" uses it, and which value?

- How about truelightning? I know some of them use it.



Should I start using timenudge and which value? I tried using timenudge some months ago and I just didn't like it (particularly RL), but I know it is not allowed in LANs for some reason so it must be beneficial even to low pingers.
I'm a bit of a purist on these matters so I have never used timenudge or truelightning.

I ping 17-20 and 20-25 to local servers based on the router's mood and interwebz usage; 40 to 50 in Argentinian servers. cl_maxpackets 125, rate 25000, truelightning 1, 0 packet loss.

well about timenudge.

using timenudge on pings < 80 is not needed. And in fact it will make the game easier for your opponent. If both players use a timenudge which is "- 1/2 of their ping" the game in general plays much better. However if only one of both will use timenudge it will mean that he himself is at a disadvantage.

One of the 'hidden advantages of tn' is however that hit-sounds play faster. Which for people like winz is very important (it seems). If however like most other hpb's you "just aim at the model" and don't really care about hit-sounds then tn doesn't really have any advantage.

Current allowed values are from -20 - 0.

There is also the part of projectiles being more responsive with -tn (feels like it to me at least). But I do have to say that because the QL code isn't available I'm not 100pc sure if it is because 'movement is closer to that of the server' or because 'rockets actually fire sooner'. Or maybe just because the hitsound plays more on time....

I could test this but I'd need a hpb and then have him change tn etc.

http://ra.is/unlagged/faq.html#DUGHPTA

I've played with a ping of 5 up to 70 and it feels much more responsive with shaft/rail with a low ping it's easier to hit straight away, that alone is a huge advantage over an high ping. It's horrible to have the feeling it's taking 0.5sec to start hitting with shaft and it's certainly not an advantage at all.

After playing with all kind of pings, I still strongly believe the lower the better.

It's clear that the game feels better with lower ping (especially movement wise) and I also think that the lower the better; but it's somewhat interesting to see what advantages and disadvantages HPB have.

if there is any advantage at all, better ask winz and not the low ping whiners. After all he has won world titles in 3 games (ut, q4, ql). He knows what he is talking about.

also about the russians, I suspect that some of them wh. Therefore, if u don't use wh, I don't think that high ping will help you in anything.

everyone can reply to huge post, but ofc I'll weigh up the answers based on who's posting them.

ok, I could also benefit from that (if there is any)

I think we mostly only rationalize unexplainable disadvantages, not advantages, so the only people who see advanteges in high ping are their opponents.

I played with pings ranging from 10 to 250. (250 to japan, 100 - 130 in usa, 80 to russia, 40-50 to swe, 30 to my regular servers). And 10 when I was on a .nl 'lan' (read l33t i-net).

And tbh if I turn off hitsounds my lg will increase as my ping goes up to around 50. Especially if I just rush in. I've had quite a few games on .swe where I've hit close to 45pc lg (which for me is insane cuz on average I hit 30). Even versus some good players ;)

But it's not really that I prefer to play on a high ping versus a low ping.
My point is that the game changes when your opponents ping changes.

When I was playing on ping 10 for a few days. Low ping players couldn't even hit me most of the time. Because I am a player who focusses more on dodging than on aiming (in general). But when a russian guy joined... I always dodged away too late.

My only point is that the game should feel the same when you are on the same ping. Also the same things should be possible on all pings although on high pings it would naturally be a bit harder / more error prone.

This is wrong imo, if its like the cpm netcode its clientside not server that may cause an affect, the higher your ping is the more the clientside prediction kicks in(think of it as on-fly timenudge that works.

Now at 20ms you wont get much if any extra prediction going on but at 60 and above the client will start to push the prediction towards 0ms so a 60ms will feel more like 0ms but possible errors? while 20ms will be just 20ms

I completely agree that it's wrong. But it is how QL works. Theres no debate on if I'm right or wrong about the post you replied to.

why don't you play russians on russian servers then retard

I sometimes do but after I raped agent there not many people like playing me.... even cooller went spec after that game although I think he just wanted to play agent / not play a hpb.

"raped" really?

That's right, rape. I'm not getting my panties in a bunch, but c'mon man... Have you stopped for a second and think wtf you are doing? What your future girlfriend may find when she googles your nickname? Your friends/co-workers/HR??? Your possible life-mates that have been unfortunate to experience or witness this during course of their lives? @ donka

u could at least say "gently raped agent" and add some class

</sarcasm>

there's actually a difference between a post featured/major'd on the homepage and a post by weird in a netcode discussion somewhere near the anus of the esports world, 90% read the posters' name and skip latest after the first line

Hmmmm ?

You could just read my posts... test it yourself... see that I'm right... and kiss my feet in adoration.

At least that way you wouldn't be fed up with so much anger :)

But the choice is up to you ofcuz

<do I need to put /sarcasm here or not hmmmm I'm in doubt....>

googling Weird does yield some funny results ;)

is that why you played zotac vs pavel on a german server instead of russia? :DDD

I have played on the proposed server since 2005 because I don't care for the insane bitching of players about servers.

I actually play quake cuz it's fun.... not because I wanna have an hour long discussion about which server we have to play on.
Pavel said .de ok? (or something like that) and I said sure.

The only times in the past 7 years that I refused to play on a server was when I had i-net problems to that location. My routing to .fr has been shit from 02 - 11 (maybe it still is dunno tbh) cuz I often have 30+% packetloss there. And from 08 - early 11 .uk was horrible. Although that seems to be fixed now.

But I also played my first round match (vs some other russian) on a russian server.

You prolly never had this server bashing story done to you... but I got so fed up with it when in 05 I played some cup where every f*cking time there was an hour long server search where ppl would bitch and moan to eventually play on the 1st server that was proposed cuz it was the most fair.....

I mean I've done ok in the usa tournaments where I wrote to all my opponents: pick a server anywhere cuz I accept that I'm from eu and therefor I don't have any say in what my ping is.

although you do have a point this advantage you mention is still very tiny compared to lpb's natural "aim at model" and "fire a fraction of a second earlier" advantage. Against high tier players the difference between a frag or getting fragged is very much more dependant on the latter of these.

Anyone in their right mind would prefer the latter instantly over the small visual advantage that you mention, atleast I would!

ah except that theres no time advantage for the lpb.
This because the clients get extrapolated extremely well (aka when you hit +forward the screen does +forward instantly as wel and ql never 'really fucks up' with this unless maybe you get a rocket pushing you to a wall or smth).
This means that he will actually see you sooner if he's on high ping. (aka his model gets extrapolated 30ms (ping 60) on his pc. On your pc he's not getting extrapolated (you yourself are though)).

This also means at times that when you keep running around a pillar, he can hit you while you can't hit him.

it is still a very minor advantage compared to natural benefits of low ping imo, also very situational.

well the advantage hpb's have is that the game feels completely different (for the lpb) they are playing because his aim 'is a lot further behind you'.
Meanwhile for the hpb it's more or less the same as usual.

not really sure what you mean... you make it sound like hpb's can more or less hit the same accuracy while the lpb has to deal with complications which make it harder to hit because of the low ping.

if thats the case, hmm?

for instant hit weapons yes. That is how it works

I completely disagree then, my opinion remains that the minor advantage a hpb gets its irrevelant vs a low pinger's.

very well. We differ upon opinion :)

I really think however that the game I play should in no way be affected by the connection of my opponent.

The whole point of this thread is, it does *in some instances* in QL. If you haven't compared high and low ping online play you have no word on this topic, like a blind discussing colors.

Generally you are right, but that would be like telling your math prof how to add, we all know the basics well....

Why would you assume I haven't ? I have and from my experience, the lower the better.

Because you have not experienced this problem, as simple as that. But let me ask you, do you think because you did not experience something, it doesn't exist? It even *can't* exist?? Do you think high-class players (weird, etc.) are imagining things? Isn't that unreasonable and arrogant to assume?

It is like this for me, I play plenty of games (ping 15 - 25), most of the time all is fine I hit my shots. But every once in a while there is one low skilled, high ping opponent who is so tough to hit my acc drops to rock bottom. I say low skill because he does not dodge well, does not even aim well (I spec afterwards sometimes to check). Still he hits me with (hitscan) shots I cannot even see coming while I can hardly hit him at all. Next game, next opponent, everyting is back to normal. So, in your opinion, what is happening in those games? I am genuinely curious if you have any smart thoughts to offer

No, I'm not denying some might have some issues for whatever reasons but I don't think these people are common and make my first statement wrong in general.

It is like this for me, I play plenty of games (ping 15 - 25), most of the time all is fine I hit my shots. But every once in a while there is one low skilled, high ping opponent who is so tough to hit my acc drops to rock bottom. I say low skill because he does not dodge well, does not even aim well (I spec afterwards sometimes to check). Still he hits me with (hitscan) shots I cannot even see coming while I can hardly hit him at all. Next game, next opponent, everyting is back to normal. So, in your opinion, what is happening in those games? I am genuinely curious if you have any smart thoughts to offer

That thing happens to me most of the time vs low pingers. It is not an advantage of high pingers. I usually avoid playing vs low ping, because not being able to hit is very annoying. Instead of blaming the low ping though, after sometime I came to think that it might has to do with the ping diff.

To answer ur question, I think that some connections have trouble playing vs some others. If the ping diff is big, then there is higher probability for this to happen for one or both players.

You should be thankful for ur low ping and not whine. Being ungrateful for the nice things we have, it’s not nice and it’s also disrespectful for the ppl who can’t have them.

It has to be more then ping difference imo, as with the same ping difference most enemies play fine while some are hard, or in some case extra easy to hit.

I do not see people 'whining' about their low ping. I see people complaining about weird accurences in QL that distort the outcome. I think that is alegitimate complaint, because I have experienced it as well. at least I want to get a better understanding why this happens and if I can do something to minimize or avoid it

again, the hard to hit part is not dependent on ping itself but on how stable the player's ping is. Depending on the amount of spikes, or pl (more rare these days) the guy will increasingly start to get more difficult to hit. Even a lpb can be hard to hit because of this

I agree it is somehow unrelated to average ping.
Thing is, with Q3 in my memory spiking was always a penalty for the warping players themselfes. Now with QL it seems to me is the first time players don't necessarily get a penalty themselfes, they hit like normal but can be hit by others much harder.
I read that might be the case when the ingoing traffic is good but the outgoing delayed, spiked. Add a general high ping to that and you get the enemy I described, all those things weren't the case with other games but surfaced wit QL's changed netcode, at least for me.

you are right that spiky ping is less punishing compared to q3, but it still gives significant aiming differences for the lagging player. Sometimes he'll have to lead alot, sometimes less, or sometimes not lead (in case he is lpb) which makes aiming quite random. This was worse in q3 to the point of unplayable.

In a proper cup match its enough to make it still unplayable against your own caliber players, but in pubs its still doable and annoying for the opponents.

there are many shades of grey.

I'm saying there are situations where a ping 60 player is miniwarping AND hits very good himself (so no disadvantage at all, besides he got a 60 ping) AND has seemingly got a time advantage around corners or with hitscan in general.

that situation makes you rage as a lpb because there is no reason or explanation why it happens. you just can't hit the guy while he hits seemingly every shot, you look at the pings and think well, somehow the Q3 situation got reversed. I'm dramatizing here :p

I guess it could be caused by a combination of bad quality outgoing data and the high ping vs low ping situation (but I only throw some guesses around probably that's not it)

with 60 ping, yes of course I understand how that situation will be a shock for someone pinging 20, I agree with you (partly because 60 ping is still within the limit of being very playable).

you have a very good gaming sense though.
Seeing how you describe what's going 'wrong' ingame so accurate.

Hard to hit Oo.... nothing is 'hard to hit'.
Because when 1 player has a high ping dodging becomes impossible.

I am not talking about that. I meant when you try to aim at a player's model who has a spiky connection it will be hard to hit because of that. Dodging has nothing to do with it.

ah ok :)
ye that's a different issue than the one I'm trying to fix... thought you were talking about a similar thing ;) my bad

also, in hopes of some ignorant ppl becoming less ignorant:


high ping does not equal warping,
high ping gets hit by everything the same way a low pinger does
high ping does not lg / rg the same as low ping, up to 50-60 ping you can still aim at the model more or less, above and you will have to start leading your shots quite a lot more.

unstable, spiky high ping is where hitbox stuff gets screwed around and you will have trouble hitting them, sadly this argument is also useless for all the "high ping is an advantage!!" ppl because even if you pinged 10, and it spiked from 50 back to 10 constantly, it would give the same sort of warp.

so overall, either way low ping > high ping, cant even believe I am saying this.

wtf, vor deleted post, then my post replies to raist, then i edit and now it's a self post? :D
thought u couldn't even delete posts after getting a reply!

esr'd idd

He replied to me after I already deleted my post, as I realised I've basically posted the same thing in about a million of these threads already.

what vor said

imo posting such threads is immoral

going on and lessening ur ping advantage by increasing your ping it isn’t immoral and of course, you don’t have to ask. Everybody would love it, to play you in a more fair ground.

don’t be a hypocrite, whining through a fictitious question

Maybe I mistake you for someone else now, but aren't you that German ping 15 guy who is (micro) warping like hell and still hits 35+ lg? Can't get better than that for you :o

35lg sounds like me, micro warping not.

Maybe it had been a temporary issue then but you moved like a uk c*nt (if you are [qs]jaysson). Anyway, just try it. I doubt that your overall skill will rise. Maybe hitscan aiming becomes a little easier (though yours seems fine with ping 15..) but from my experience dodging gets harder as well as using rl+pg. I don't see how using a higher ping would be immoral or cheating, as long as that procedure doesn't add warp as a by-product.

player a can hit 40 shaft (he has 20 ping)
player b can hit 35 shaft (he has 60+ ping)

player b wins most of the time.

if you dont have a low ping you cant judge period.

all good players that have played in lan have confirmed that low ping is better

so what r u talking about?

lan is entirely different to online play in QL, can't compare them

I wasn't talking about ping lan. I used the lan part as a reference to the quality of the players. I mean, I have never seen a lan player claiming that high ping is advantageous.

difference on LAN is, that you play vs. LAN players only. Described problems only occur when pings differ.

Oh. could have said pro players :}

I have seen a lot of complains about connection while watching the pro's playing online and always assumed they meant quality of connection, not ping isolated...

What about jitter and stuff like that? I always wondered when someone warp does LG still hit where he was supposed to be (between thoose nasty teleports moments). Cuz i feel it doesn't.

Also to this days no one here ever made a constructive comment about how "netcode" is working so people here talking with be words and thinking they are right are just midless midgets.

Probably because we are no programmers but only play the game. Feel free to make as many consructive posts as you think are necessary to move forward on the topic.

I have to repeat myself, I think TDM is a great example for this! Because you can experience the difference much more pronounced with more enemies.

Some enemies miniwarp (or stutter) like hell, others are perfectly fluid.
Some enemies are very hard to hit (provoking disbelief when the hits won't register while the looked perfect from your pov), other are on the contrary hard to miss!

I had TDM games where I would constantly rail or shaft enemies of my skill level (good doging) whereas I would constantly miss enemies well below my skill level (bad to no dodging). I would love to hear a guess as to how that can happen

no one forces you to play with 16ms,you can choose among a dozen of server's locations if you _actually_ think that high ping is better
this is just a whine thread

actions speak louder than words, still waiting to see the day when two similarly skilled players/teams have an "important" match and anyone is happy to have 20+ ping more

until then

happens every zotac final

ye its funny, people claim high ping is an advantage but we get to play max 1-2 maps per year on swedish servers (where we actually have equal or slightly lower ping than our opponents) instead of the regular 45-55 average vs 15-35 of our opponents in germany.

Well swedish servers sucked all year long so I wouldn't count it as a real arguement :P

na man they were fixed months ago, unless theres another problem with them than warping

I thought they sucked till they fixed it like 1 or 2 months ago. I remember teven a topic on esr but I could be wrong tho.

ya. apparantly, they have been down for the last 3 days

THIS IS A DEATHMATCH GAME NOT A PACMAN CLONE

CORRECT!

I still have that song <3

PACMAN HAS BETTER NETCODE!!!1

did ping 15 ever win a zotac ? or was it always ping >30 ?

lol

it is? i dont play on them because swede join

low ping rockets and plasma rape so hard its not even funny,...

Don't know how much QuakeLive took from CPMA's netcode but my findings in CPMA pretty much confirm what kapca said earlier.
When i ping around 60 it's much easier to hit rails, even shots that are way off the target. However, rockets get worse with higher pings... so both have their advantages. This all has to do with CPMA's built-in assistance for high pingers (unlagged or w/e you call it) plus the fact that high pingers (with an unstable connection at that) are less vulnerable to enemy LG.

LOW PING (8-24): definitely best for rockets

MEDIUM PING (24-48): overall pretty solid feeling (my preference)

HIGH PING (48-etc): can hit the weirdest rails, rockets suck though

In cpma I could play up to about 90 quite happily most of the time. Moscow, East coast servers not much of a problem

cpma was pretty balanced for all pings, even for rl usage.

ql is a bit different and what you say applies to it more.

Except it's more 48-80, because past 80, everything is fucked due to no more unlag.

I consider anything above the unlag threshold medium/low ping. 60-80 would be medium, and everything below that low. Anyone who can whine about 50 ping ZOMFGH!!!1 is doing something wrong, or isn't a human being. Which is most of Quake...

higher ping means more random rail shots because of unlagged + more warping -> harder to hit
sometimes random hits are better than actual aim so it improves aim accuracy ;)

I ping 50-75, I ping 50 to my own country, the yUK.

I can kick all yr arses with that ping, but if I lose I blame the ping ofc ;)

ping 60+ sucks balls.

can't believe such a long thread about ping, it's just retarded :D

I was on about this nearly a year ago and it was one of the major reasons i quit. It was fun at first to see my lg acc increase with 10 percent when i added 20 ms to my ping using dummynet , but after a while it got annoying. Fun to see the the same shit going on many months later. This game will prolly remain broken forever

The most annoying part for me is not that you know how much better you could be if you would not have to guess the random location of the hitbox in every single moment, but when you see streams (what Stermy used to cast for example)
You watch them, and realize how well the netcode works for them, they are not forced to waste time with correcting the netcode in their heads, they just aim at the enemy and hit.
When you realize you are experiencing something what the majority of the players doesn't have to deal with.

This is the hardest for me,... I honestly can't care less about if I suck in a game or why and my QL acc is half compared to my Q3 acc... It''s the mystery what frustrates me, the fact that I can't figure it out why do I have it only in QL and how can I fix it.

That's what makes me very sad and it's ruining the fun:(

Did you ever try with another connection? I'm guessing you have fairly big ping fluctuations with cable?

As I said, I changed everything many times, expect the ISP which I can't becasue it's the only one available in the street. But it's a good ISP, I never have any problem in any other game, I have supergood ping and connection everywhere I play.
They were horrible before indeed, but they changed a lot in 2011, and they treat me very well.

So I have a prefect connection, but probably Visje and all the others also have good connections as well, this is not about ping and routing for sure.

Here, see it yourself:

1 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms catv-89-xxx-xxx-xxx.catv.broadband.hu [89.xxx.xxx.xxx]
2 6 ms 9 ms 9 ms catv-89-135-220-94.catv.broadband.hu [89.135.220.94]
3 22 ms 21 ms 21 ms de-fra01a-rd3-xe-0-2-1.aorta.net [84.116.134.9]
4 22 ms 22 ms 23 ms 84.116.132.174
5 24 ms 23 ms 23 ms 213.46.179.122.aorta.net [213.46.179.122]
6 25 ms 24 ms 24 ms quakelive-hosted-by.i3d.net [91.198.152.211]

Aorta.net is the dedicated European backbone of my ISP, and the very first hop from the backbone is the QL server. Nothing is visible in between. This is the best possible route there is:(

I think it's something about the combination of the asynchronous upstream/downstream design of the Docsis networks and the QL netcode, but sadly I'm just guessing.

edit: The jitter is less than 4% most of the times, and as low as 1-2% at late nights.

i know what you mean, i play with very low ping 5 NL 15 UK 15 DE 15 FR 30-40 all the EST countries and Spain.

When i do 1o1 LG me 5 ping the other one 50, i feel it's very slopy. My crosshair is on the target but it doesn't hit, there is no hit beep. On the other hand when i play with 40 ping i feel i can even spam the LG in the aproximate direction where enemy dodge and hit like crazy, just feels easier.

Still amased to see a couple of "thoose pro" posting here still affirming that they don't feel/know it.

But what is evidence (has been told many times but yet no one made the link btw) is that if the netcode was at least somehow standard, there would be no way a 50 pinger could win an LG fight vs a 5 pinger. This proves that at least "unlaged" gives a disadvantage to very low ping when it comes to fight vs 40 pinger.

So here we are Mr Frenchy ProG4MeR, i ask you to read again what you linked below http://ra.is/unlagged/faq.html#DUGHPTA and use your brain and find more objectivity this time ; )

In fact you just need to know to read to make the conclusion that in fact unlagged is not perfect and in some situations (too low ping vs medium ping) the unlaged gives advantages/disadvantages.

In fact you can deduce that to a certain point the ping become too low to work well with this netcode.


: )

Looks like you are worth an answer.. not.

There was no question in my post.

Mr Last word tryhard.

:***

There is no need of a question to justify a reply.. way to look even more stupid in each of your posts, keep it up.

But when he posted that link, he had no idea that this can happen to anyone, and perhaps he rushed that judgement, but things are very different now. I saw no hostility or elitism in his post.
If you play other PC games and read changelogs of those, you may know that some of the bugs are "rare cases", which means they are only happen (and only for a few people), if multiply factors are present at the same time.
Perhaps he never met anyone before who ever had this issue. He is a pro gamer, so perhaps he has to take lots of whines, and that's not only annoying after a while, but also can change your approach toward claims like this.

The problem is here that while I know shit ton of people who experience this problem, noone can tell what's causing it, and I also know people who only have 12ms ping and don't have this problem, so it's not that simple.

If you think about the major known bugs in QL history (e.g: iirc when QL was continuously writing files on the hard drive and caused hitching or wtf), bugs some had for years(!) and they didn't fix.... I wonder how many years will we have to wait until this one will be reproduced and fixed:S

Ever tried to use a VPN to see if the netcode behaves the same ? Not sure if it would have any effect the asynchronous upstream/downstream (if it's indeed the problem) but I guess it's worth the try.

I did not, but if I have this because my upstream is buffered and delayed compared to my downstream, it would be probably same with the VPN, since the first exit point from the "network" is the QL server.

But I will give it a try, just to make sure.

hate to say it but didn't I tell you so? :(

nice to see that someone who just sais "it's broken" and tells the world how to abuse it gets +'s while the one who tells the world how to fix it gets told that he's imagining things :)

I play regularly on Swedish servers with 20 ping, German servers with 40 ping and Dutch servers with 55 ping and it's clear as day that the lower the ping, the better I hit. If someone really thinks that higher ping is better then there shouldn't be any trouble with the server search in TDM games because higher ping is better. We gladly play all games on Swedish servers. Unfortunately that's not the case when the people who whine "higher is better" actually play against us and don't agree to play on Swedish servers.....

20 ping is nowhere near what we can call supa low ping.

I remember playing a two server game against Finland, funnily enough you played no better or worse on the Swedish server than on the UK server and neither did we.

I remember playing vs UK in 2 or 3 maps all games on UK servers :D

I remember it too, because even though we agreed to an icelandic server for whichever map it was, the server was fucked for everyone.

To me the game feels weird with 50-60 ping, rail and LG seem to hit easily even when I don't aim that well. With low ping it seems that I have to aim perfectly. Note how I use the verb "seem".

However, by simply looking at my stats I can see that I played waaaaay better when I had fiber optic and played with 10-30ms all the time. Even my acc with hitscan was better. I even got a better monitor and mouse in the meantime but I still played far better with a low ping.

Sure low ping is better to play with....but it(doesnt have to be) / isnt an advantage when you play against people with ping 50-80

For niceness of play the following holds:

low ping vs low ping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> low ping vs high ping >>>>>>>> high ping vs high ping

However that shouldn't be confused with how netcode reward those who fuck up their connection.

Go play against the Russians and see what kinds of shots they hit. Either they're a nation of Quake geniouses (that hypothesis is backed by the very existence of cooller), or they are all cheaters, or the high pings have something to do with it (especially quick reaction shots).

Not even juvenile hits such crazy rails on dm20 as guys from ip do on a regular basis.

Thank you.

So what everyone agrees on is that QL sucks and we should play something better.

Seems logical.

sadly there isnt anything / at least not for my rig.

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35ui12/ <- seems this is the case for most of you who can't face the fact that you are just bad and make excuses that won't help you at all trying to progress

osp netcode is fair! low ping was a benefit, high ping was a handicap but that is the way it is!

and now think about the artificial unlagged time compensation. there is no way for a developer to make it fair for everyone! Osp netcode is still the best option for all kinds of pings

Osp netcode is still the best option for all kinds of pings

WTF

"low ping was a benefit, high ping was a handicap but that is the way it is!"

So it's not "the best option for all kinds of pings" then?

I think he meant that if you have high ping, than you gonna need some kind of a prediction. With the osp netcode (not unlagged), your brain is predicting, which is better than any kind of code will ever be.

There are many players hitting good - crazy acc % (compared to osp times) in QL at any pingrange. Show me an osp5 tdm demo where topteams hit 40-45 lg, 70-80 rg in osp, then we can talk.

I think you misunderstood me:

We can talk about what "I think he meant"??? When I said "which is better than any kind of netcode..", I didnt mean it's more accurate than any kind of netcode, but (obviously since it was a reply pointing to a specific post) I meant it's better than any kind of netcode solution what a developer could choose to make it fair for everyone, because there was almost no predicting "netcode" in osp.

But onto you post now: A game in OSP with 10-15ms pings is like a LAN game, so are you implying that those numbers are not possible on LANs but they are possible online in QL, and if yes, it's because of the netcode in QL (which would validate this whole thread) and not because of the higher skills the PROs have today?

How can it be better, or more fair if players get an advantage just because of their ping? The OSP netcode was more transparent for sure, like c1 said: low ping -> good, high ping -> bad. But I don't see the fairness in that tbh.

so are you implying that those numbers are not possible on LANs but they are possible online in QL, and if yes, it's because of the netcode in QL (which would validate this whole thread)

colwn for example hit similar % online as on lan, that doesn't validate this thread.

"A game in OSP with 10-15ms pings is like a LAN game, so are you implying the....."

You forgot the first part of the sentence.. I was comparing OSP lans to online QL games accuracy wise. Such comparision woiuld indeed "validate the thread" because if extrapolation increases accuracy compared to a simple LAN no-ping interpolation... there is definitely something happening in the netcode don't you think?
It doesn't matter if it's "biased" or "weird" and also doesn't matter if Padawan or Visje,or I'm saying it, no matter how many of you bully me, this is still a valid point and a valid question.

When did I bully you?
My point is: you want to compare the effect that QL netcode has on hitscan acc %, related to ping. The easiest way to do so is to keep as many factors as possible constant. Same game, same players, same gamemode, same maps, same or comparable opponents; that's a good start.

Now do the same for OSP. Did players with ping 50-80 hit the same hitscan acc % as those with ping 0-15 (with same/similar circumstances)? I highly doubt that.

IF QL netcode sucks at a certain ping range (which is not proven yet afaik but possible ofc) that's because it is bad/buggy and not because predicting-netcode is bad in general.

I never said that "predicting-netcode is bad in general", In fact, seeing online CPMA and QL stream, I think it's safe to say that those games have the best netcode a game ever had.

I was pointing out two problems:

1, They shit themselfs sometimes for some mysterious reasons.
2, If I have 25ms ping to a server, I don't need prediction, the raw input from the network is what I want, and I will predict that 1/3 keel in my head if the nme moves with 600ups.

I meant it's better than any kind of netcode solution what a developer could choose to make it fair for everyone, because there was almost no predicting "netcode" in osp.

That's sounds very general, but ok.

If I have 25ms ping to a server, I don't need prediction

Good for you, but a lot of people have a higher ping. You can ask for disabling prediction, that's your choice. But don't call it fair please.

You can't take things out of context:(
again, the first part of that sentence says I didn't mean it accuracy wise.... and I was reffering to this sentence from c1:

"there is no way for a developer to make it fair for everyone!"

and I agree, ping defines how fast the signal ("light") travels in the virtual world of the multiplayer session. There is no way to cancel out that delay, somebody/something will have to "suffer" more than the other.
It was a reply(!) and I only meant that it's nothing more fair than not touching the data at all because then not the developper will take the responsibility but the latency, ergo, the lower your ping is, the better is for you.
I'm not self centered and I obviously understand that unlagged is generally more fair for the players on the large scale, but I wasn't talking about that.

at least you understood what I meant :)

I'm sure others also did:)

he is more biased than weird

personally, I much prefer the honesty of weird’s and vsje’s posts, than his hypocritical, self-centred crap.

and to answer to kapca's reply: what c1 means is not what u would have liked him to say, but what he said. What on earth makes you translate the “high ping was a handicap but that is the way it is” to what u said? What were the key words pointing to ur wild transaltion that I missed?

ps: I don't expect an answer. Probably, a personal attack like he did to winz, but certainly nothing meaningful. Even though he seems sensible in other subjects, his connection doesn’t allow him to see beyond his nose in this.

I honestly don't know what you missed, sadly I don't even understand what's your point is:(
I have my answers but I don't know yours, so you can also answer me if you want: why we never saw such LG and Rail numbers on OSP 1 ping LANS what we see on QL online games?

edit: this is a simple question, nothing is biased about it, and attacks nobody. Just a simple question.

- different games
- different hitboxes
- skill has increased
- improved hardware

but mostly the first. ql is different than q3. I am missing ur point though.

Well we are getting somewhere. You didn't say netcode in that list (hitboxes were bigger so we can ignore that).

So with the same game, same skills and the same hardware, what do you think: If we would have the simple OSP netcode in QL those PROs would hit the same high accuracy on LANs just like how they do with the current netcode while Visje, me (and the others) wouldn't have phenomena we discused in this thread?

I don’t think that the pros are hitting less with 10-15ping. You, vsje and others might hit less, because of various reasons: most importantly your connections and then, the placebo and the rage that goes with that.

What you fail to realise is that you, low pingers, aren’t the only ones that have problems with their connections. These problems aren’t low ping exclusive. High pingers accept that they will probably have problems with the netcode and that’s why they don’t make a big fuss about it.

You want us to believe the truth of your experience and generally of what you say and you even rage in the slightest sign that we might doubt you. On the other hand, you totally close your ears on others’ experiences and “truths”. That is not fair. For example I have frequently problems vs low ping connections. In a recent game, while having control in ztn and the score was still 0-0 had thoughts of quitting, since in all encounters I was unable to hit him. It wasn’t his dodging. Simply nothing was registering, or too little for being able to frag him. That is true and whine at the same moment. But since u want us to believe you whines, why not believe ours? My point is that is not about low or high ping, but about connections (yours and the opponents). Weird stuff happen both to low and high pings, but low pings always have advantage.

btw I use cg_railTrailTime "150" to make the through-body rails standout less and avoid raging

I don't know how old are you, but people usually stop raging way before they turn 30, and if they keep playing they usually only play to have some fun with the mates.

I play fps games since they are exist and I have a pretty confident aim, perhaps it's safe to say that if I have the time to play every night for a week, it's getting deadly accurate. The bottom line is that I aim whereever I want, and I don't see things what are not there.
This is not because I have a huge talent or skill (I don't), it's just the experience of two decades of playing FPS games.

I also played with 56k modems, I know that the high unstable ping is way much worse, but this is different because this strange offset is something what we shouldn't have at the first place, something what's getting better when ping increases, and most importantly its something what's only happening in QL.

I obviously understand that it's happening only for 1%, and -as I stated it many time before - I think that QL has an awesome netcode, probably the best a game ever had. I just ask you to understand that non of us are making this story up, it's real and it's happening.
This is just a mistery I really like to understand and solve if its possible, but if I can't that won't make me rage or stop playing. I love Quake, it's the best game ever:)

I believe u and weird and visje. I am sure u r not making anything up. I am just saying weird shit happen to high pings too. Especially, like the ones crea* describes, where u have problems vs certain connections.

I don’t rage, but was losing my confidence when random things were happening, cause didn’t know what to expect. I am now used to it. Maybe, my connection got a little better too.

I am with u on ql netcode having problems, especially of being unreliable and changing according to the opponents’ connection (and ping). What I really like about it though is its responsiveness and that u don’t feel the ping, unlike q3 where u were feeling seriously handicapped, if u pinged more.

so you prefer being handicaped by enemys ping over being handicaped by your own ping? :)

at least some1 is understanding the netcode! :)

omg theres some1 more biased than me??? :>

Well what I'm personally a big fan of is to give players a variable which says how many % the opponent should be extrapolated.
100% being that the pc guesses where the nmy will be in 1/2 your ping time, but when the pc is wrong the guy will appear warp (which gets worse and worse as pings increase because the pc will be less and less sure). And 0% being equal to OSP netcode.

The trick to good netcode imo is to make people aim infront of where their pc knows the enemy is at.

ahah @ this thread.. full of silly eurobad idiots arguing over ping like it matters rofl get some fucking skill rofl.. im so glad to see no american players wasting their time in this garbage thread

indeed, some of you are quite busy posting logs as proofs of cheating... you can't have everything, right?:)

i read half this thread and then got bored

weird whines alot when he lose thats pretty well known
BUT
i agree totally with what he says about this

cause ive come to the exact same conclusions regarding this phenomenon

i have 20-30 ping and everytime i have to play a russian or someone with 45+ ping Its almost impossible to hit rails and lg and i often lose,
its not because off opponents dodging skills because if i talk the opponent into joining another server where there is no ping gap
my rail and lg acc goes to normal and i win easily....
this has happend so much its now FACT
higher ping have advantage over a low ping especially with lg .. and rail

100% truth

id luf to increase my ping to 35, TELL ME HOW TO? :-<